View Full Version : Heat pump
DAVIDVESSELS
Feb 25, 2008, 06:24 PM
What happens if you run your heat pump @ 60 degree indoor temp?
acetc
Feb 25, 2008, 07:16 PM
If you run it in heat it is no problem, if you run it in cool then it may ice up the evaporator coil.
DAVIDVESSELS
Feb 26, 2008, 12:01 PM
if you run it in heat it is no problem, if you run it in cool then it may ice up the evaporator coil.
Would it not be like running an a/c uint in a low ambiant condition?
oldmaninthewoods
Feb 26, 2008, 12:13 PM
I don't understand
What happens when its 100 degrees outside?
So I too have a question then
I am not hvac engineer but I need some help
Is it possible to put a full heatpump system in an attic
Both ac and heat with proper attic ventilation and proper downdraft extensions and drainage protection?
What I missing, the physics?
hvac1000
Feb 26, 2008, 12:38 PM
((would it not be like running an a/c unit in a low ambient condition?))
You need a special fan control to slow the outside fan down if you are going to run A/C in cool temperatures. That helps to keep up the system pressures so the inside evaporator does not ice up. You also need other items like a crankcase heater for the compressor oil.
hvac1000
Feb 26, 2008, 01:02 PM
((is it possible to put a full heatpump system in an attic
Both ac and heat with proper attic ventilation and proper downdraft extensions and drainage protection?
What I missing, the physics?))
Nothing is impossible but some things are just stupid.
There is no logic thinking behind that idea.
Service would be a real pain since changing a compressor requires the use of a torch in the house located in the attic.
The required air changes would cause the entire ends of the roof to be left off.
You would also have to figure in lots of head room or you would have a air recirculation problem let alone trying to change a condenser fan motor.
oldmaninthewoods
Feb 26, 2008, 07:11 PM
((is it possible to put a full heatpump system in an attic
both ac and heat with proper attic ventilation and proper downdraft extensions and drainage protection?
what I missing, the physics?))
Nothing is impossible but some things are just stupid.
There is no logic thinking behind that idea.
Service would be a real pain since changing a compressor requires the use of a torch in the house located in the attic.
The required air changes would cause the entire ends of the roof to be left off.
You would also have to figure in lots of head room or you would have a air recirculation problem let alone trying to change a condenser fan motor.
Stupid is as stupid does
I have a 8 foot roof over head in this attic
I could play basketball in it
That being said I can run metal ducking and cover the entire house from this position
My concern is the AMBIENT temp in the summer, proper drainage and it would set in a metal pan (special made)
Why does the ac/heatpump need to be outside?
hvac1000
Feb 26, 2008, 07:23 PM
Follow the manufactures instructions. Call the manufacturer to find out if there warranty will cover such install.
Check with your insurance company and as the if any damage caused by your system will be covered by a attic install of the condensing unit.
Since your duct will not be in a conditioned space no matter how well you insulate you will have loss and increased utility cost.
Personally I couldn't care less where you put your system but my experience with commercial hidden equipment built in shopping centers so as not to cause a nasty looking roof line was a disaster. Both from a service point and longevity.
One last item for you to look into. Go out a watch a heat pump go into defrost. Wait till the end of the defrost cycle and watch what happens when it comes back on line. Under most circumstances water will fly all over the place since for a short time till the coils are dry. I do not believe you would want all that moisture laden vapor all over your insulation/attic space.
As I said before stupid is as stupid does.
acetc
Feb 27, 2008, 06:28 PM
To Oldmaninthewoods, I have worked on package heat pumps installed in the attic of a residence such as you describe, the problems that are encountered are not worth the effort, the attics get much hotter then the outside ambient conditions in summer, the air can be ducted to the condenser but the outdoor fan is not designed to move air against a static pressure of ducted discharge air through the roof. The condenser would be hard to clean, noise might be a problem, future replacement would have need to be considered,
Most codes require an access large enough to replace the equipment.
The conventional split heat pump system with a outdoor unit on the roof or ground makes most of these problems go away, good luck ,Mike
oldmaninthewoods
Feb 28, 2008, 10:37 AM
Thanks mike
I will consider the split system as I learn more
You reply is greatly appreciated
oldmaninthewoods
Mar 2, 2008, 06:42 PM
Can anyone suggest a good place online to buy a split heat pump system?
hvac1000
Mar 2, 2008, 07:52 PM
((what happens if you run your heat pump @ 60 degree indoor temp?)0
It just runs and maintains 60 degrees but if you turn the thermostat up and the emergency/resistance heat comes on you electric bill will go way up.
oldmaninthewoods
Mar 3, 2008, 05:40 AM
To Oldmaninthewoods, I have worked on package heat pumps installed in the attic of a residence such as you describe, the problems that are encountered are not worth the effort, the attics get much hotter then the outside ambient conditions in summer, the air can be ducted to the condenser but the outdoor fan is not designed to move air against a static pressure of ducted discharge air thru the roof. The condenser would be hard to clean, noise might be a problem, future replacement would have need to be considered,
most codes require an access large enough to replace the equipment.
The conventional split heat pump system with a outdoor unit on the roof or ground makes most of these problems go away, good luck ,Mike
Thanks Mike
I have asked several (certified) HVAC companies and have gotten MIXED answers
Question I was quoted a price for LABOR ONLY on the install of 2 unit/ split system
The quote did not include charging the system or any ELECTRICAL hook-up.
He would set the units, and run appoximatedly 100 feet total (6 vents) of ducking
The Round Hose kind and set the vents. And set the return and set the thermostate.
Most of the labor intensive part of the total system install.
What price range is acceptable for this type of install?
What is a fair price for a CHARGE of the system...
How are the copper lines sold and
Thanks I am trying to budget this in the next 60 days
Just don't want ripped off by some fly by night.
acetc
Mar 4, 2008, 06:09 PM
It appears you got a quote for installing a/c equipment that you would supply, this is not the way to go for your sake. A contractor normally will not provide any warranty on the equipment since he did not sell it to you, get a quote from a licensed contractor (preferably 3 quotes) for a total installation all inclusive, if something does go wrong he can't point a finger at someone else to blame and get a contract in writing.
I can't comment on price due to labor rates vary from state to state, good luck, Mike
acetc
Mar 4, 2008, 06:11 PM
As a side note most all air conditioners come precharged.
oldmaninthewoods
Mar 6, 2008, 06:40 AM
Thanks for the advice I will check with my local peeps and get 3 quotes