I have a resendential sewar line that appears to be partially blocked. I had a service come and clean the main line out a couple of weeks ago with a 3-1/2" power cleaner and yesterday morning it backed up again into the storage room drain in the basement when the basement shower was used. I rented a power sewar line cleaner and cleaned it out myself yesterday. I seemed to be fine yesteday after I cleaned it out. Then this morning, it started to back up again into the basement during a shower.

Some other information on my system: I have a septic tank, which was clean out last October. I have been having some venting line freezing over. ( I can smell sewar gas on occasion and here a gurggling sound when I flush the upstairs toilet).

Can a sewar vent blockage cause this type of thing?

Thank you.

You need to get a reputable septic tank specialest to inspect you system. Not inferring that the one who pumped you tank was not. It sounds like the weep holes of your distribution lines are clogged or the ground is saturated. Since you recently had the tank pumped had the tank pumped, you are going to have to do something more.

Generally here is how you septic system works.

You flush or in some other way put sewage in to your system. This flows to the tank where it stays for a period, allowing the solids to dissolve and liquefy. When the tank is full, adding additional sewage causes the water, commonly called grey water, to flow out the distribution lines. Note that the tank must be full for this to occur. The outlets for the distribution lines are slightly below the input lines. The distribution line pipes have holes or separations for the grey water to flow out and into the gravel surrounding the pipe. This gravel, (in some places shredded old tires are being used) spreads the grey water out into the soil. The sun then dries up the moisture.

The purpose of periodically pumping the tank is to remove what does not dissolve. If the tank is not periodically cleaned these solids can rise and flow out the distribution lines clogging the weep holes.
Even with the best of maintenance septic system can fail after a number of years. The gravel and the soil just becomes impervious with sediment. When this occurs you have to put in new lines.

You can see now why you have to be so careful about what you put into a septic system and why you don't drive over or park automobiles over the distribution lines or the septic field. This compacts the soil and limits it's ability to absorb moisture.

The first signs of system failure generally come during or after periods of rain which limit the soils ability to absorb the gray water.

Thank you for the response.

I live in Iowa with a foot or so of snow on top of the frozen ground right now. There are no signs of wet drain field at all.

When my system was cleaned last fall, I had the opportunity to see in the tanks. The last tank (there appears to be two separate tanks, and the first tank had a couple of chambers for the solids). The last tank only had water in it (no solids) and also had a sump pump in to move the water out into the drain field. I saw the sump pump in action at the time I had it opened, so I know that it worked then. If that sump pump isn't working anymore, could that cause this problem as well? Can a drawing field area become frozen and prevent the flow of water? (Although, this has been here for 18 years, and we've hadthe house for 3 winters now with no problems until a couple of weeks ago).

Thanks!

I am not familer with those kind of temperatures but logic would tell me that a frozen ground would inhibit the dispersal of the gray water. Also not familer with septic systems that require a pump to disperse the gray water. I can certianly see where terrian might require something to get it up to a level where it can dispersed. If that pump is failing, certianly that would eventually cause the sewer line to back up.

Hey Jdalton... Doesn't that company offer any warranty on their work? Tell me... do you have a dedicated circuit breaker or a dedicated fuse for that effluent pump? Let me know.

Massplumber,

The house is 18 years old, I've had it for 2-1/2 years, so any warranty probably isn't good anymore.

As far as the circuit breakers are concerned, I couldn't find anything labeled that would identify it as for the pump. Given the adverse weather we have here in the winter, getting to the tank to check it out is rather difficult (1-1/2" feet of snow and frozen ground to contend with).

I did do some further investigation last night with the following results:

When we ran the wash machine (which is located in the basement), the basement drain gurgled and spat and gulped when the wash machine was draining. The water level in the basement toilet went down as well. However, when the upstairs shower and toilet are used, there is no indication of a blockage. There is no gurgling, or gulping, or backup what so ever when observing the basement drain. The only time I have had a backup problem is when the down stairs shower has been run.

My inclination (and I'd welcome some other opinions) at this point is to believe I have a venting problem. Unfortunately, due to safety concerns, I can't get on my roof to try to clean out the vent since I have a bunch of snow and ice on it. The vent is on the north side of my house as well, so any sun that does peak out doesn't really get to the vent to thaw it out, if it does in fact have a frozen blockage of some sort. This has been an extraordinary winter in that we've had a lot of snow, freezing rain, and temperatures that have stayed below freezing for much longer duration than normal.

With that in mind, I have another question. Is there a cap of some sort that you can put over the vent to keep rain and snow out, yet allow it breath at it should?

Thank you for you responses!

I am inclined to agree with the blocked vent from what you say. What's the possibility of hooking you shop vac exhaust to the washer stand, blowing the water out of the trap. Then the letting the shop vac blow warm air from the house up the vent. You would have course have to seal the connection of the shop vac to the washer stand. Might work.

Mark
What would happen if a couple of 90's were put on the vent to turn it down?

Hi guys:

Hey, JD,, I am going to repeat some of what YOU posted.. OK?

1) yesterday morning it backed up again into the storage room drain in the basement when the basement shower was used

2) I can smell sewer gas on occasion and there is a gurgling sound when I flush the upstairs toilet.

3) When we ran the wash machine (which is located in the basement), the basement drain gurgled and spat and gulped when the wash machine was draining

4) However, when the upstairs shower and toilet are used, there is no indication of a blockage.

5) The only time I have had a backup problem is when the down stairs shower has been run.

OK... now bear with me... (more questions):

1)... what is the "drain" in storage room? A floor drain or the main drain cleanout?

2)... when you flush upstairs toilet there is a gurgling sound... where does the gurgling sound occur?

3)... washing machine caused gurgling only.. no back up from drain... huh?

4)... you said when upstairs shower and toilet are used, no indication of blockage... well, in number 2) you said upstairs toilet causes gurgling... I asked where... upstairs toilets that cause gurgling upstairs suggests more so vent blocked... upstairs toilets that cause gurgling downstairs suggests more so drain blocked. SO... which is it?

5)The only time drain backs up is when shower is used? Is this the only time? Did you by chance run the washing machine and then take shower?

The reason I am asking all this... run the washing machine twice... fill tub and then drain... then do it again (large loads)... then flush the upstairs toilet a few times... fill tub and drain that (someone better be in basement checking on this as you go along... huh?).

What I want you to do is really try to flood your system....see if you can make it backup (WITHOUT USING THE SHOWER).. I am sure will gurgle a lot... that is fine.

What I am not understanding is why the shower would cause the backup... but nothing else. I am wondering if fixtures are getting used in a sequence of events such that when you finally shower in basement the blockage shows up.

Anyway, try to flood system as presented.. do not use shower... and let us know what happens.

A blocked vent sounds reasonable... until you tell me the shower causes the drain in storage room to back up... hmmm.

Now, you asked, if there is there a cap or something that you can put over vent that keep air and snow out but still allow air to flow? Well.. let me ask you... how tall is your vent pipe past the roof line? Does it get ever get covered completely by snow?

Harold suggested 2 90s... that is reasonable as it does not block full size vent and will prevent snow/rain from going down... but I want you to answer all my questions before we start looking at changing the vent any.. OK?

Like I said, go through my questions.. answer all please... and try to flood the system (2 washer full, 1 tub full, upstairs toilet 4-5 times, etc.)... keep us posted. Thank you

Massplumber,

I conducted the "experiment" tonight. I will go through your questions of yesterday, then the results.

1) The drain in the storage room is a floor drain.

2) The gurgling sound was heard in the tub, in the same bathroom as the toilet. It no longer is producing that sound.

3) The wash machine did cause the drain to back up, but not enough to come out of the floor drain. It would gurgle and spit, as the water level rose two or three inches in the floor drain, but it never actually came out of the drain.

4) I think that is answered with number 2)

5) First water usage of the day was the use of the basement shower, after several minutes of it being on, the water level in the storage room floor drain began to rise. At that point I quickly had the water turned off. As a result, the water didn't quite make it out of the floor drain, although if I hadn't had the water shut off, it most assuredly would have.


I tried to flood the system as you suggested without the use of the basement shower. Three tub fulls of water, two laundry loads, several upstairs toilet flushings.

The water did not rise or gurgle or spit or anything in the floor drain. The most I saw the water in the floor drain do is wiggle a small bit. Nothing else.

As far as the roof vent being covered with snow, it is not, and has not been. I did notice a few weeks ago when were only experiencing the gurgling noise in the upstairs bathroom (no water backing up) that there appeared to be ice or snow on the top of the vent. Just after that we had a slight warm up and the problem went away.

I haven't yet tried the basement shower. We have used the upstairs shower several times in the past day or so and there is no water backing up into the storage room floor drain.

I really appreciate your time and thoughts.

OK... so maybe two different issues here?

One is vent icing over and upstairs gurgling.. other is basement shower drain and floor drain connected and backing up. That sound right?

Vent icing over is rare,but may not be in your area... I would call my local plumbing inspector and just ask him what you can do to reduce the icing over/blocking of vent through roof (may not be much per code.. but ask). Hopefully that fixes 2nd floor issue.

The drain in basement... by your description, now suggests that you have a lateral line that is separated from the sewer main drain line and needs to be snaked out. This lateral is inside house from shower/floor drain and should connect into main drain before exiting the building.

Did the drain company clear the main drain or just the inside lateral that picks up shower and floor drain? I think problem is inside, not outside building.

I think they needed to SNAKE the drain inside...NOT power flush the outside drain.

Let me know your thoughts.

About 3 weeks ago, a plumbing service came in and power snaked through the toilet opening (they took the toilet off) with a 3-1/2" diameter snake attachment. (As a side issue, with a bit of inspiration apparently, the plumber who worked on the house when it was built, put the clean out drain directly behind the basement toilet). They went to the septic tank several times to be sure it was cleaned out.

After we had it back up again into the storage room through the floor drain, I rented a power snake and with a smaller attachment (maybe an inch in diameter) I went through the floor drain and out to the septic tank. I didn't feel any obstruction along the way at all. I ran it through there at least 5 times. After that was done, the next day was when I had to turn the basement shower off so that the water didn't back up into the storage room through the floor drain.

I think I need to run the basement shower again to see what happens. If it starts to back up again, I would agree with you that there is an obstruction in the drain line between where the basement shower ties into the main line and the other fixutres tie into the main line (the shower is physically located closest to the floor drain).

If it doesn't back up while running the shower, could it have been a vent blockage that reduced the main drain's ability to flow water to a point that only the flow rate and duration of use of the basement shower would cause it to back up through the floor drain?

I liken this idea to a can (plumbing system) with a spicket (main drain line) being emptied and having a source of water (shower, toilets, wash machine, etc.) entering the can. As long as the vent cap is opened, the spicket will allow most any amount of water to flow out with out backing up the system. But, if the vent cap is closed and the spicket is only able to allow a fraction of the flow out (due to the partial vacuum being created in the can as it is being emptied), assuming that the flow into the can is greater than the flow out of the can, the can will eventually overflow i.e. back-up.

I don't know if that analogy makes since in a plumbing system, which I would think are more complicated. Anyway, I'm going t orun the bsement shower tonight and see what happens.

Thanks for your help!

Hey JD.

A blocked vent will cause all kinds of issues... it will cause gurgling, bubbling, sputter type stuff and will delay the waste from draining quickly and self scouring the plumbing system... for sure. BUT, it will not cause/allow a drain to back up to the extent your floor drain is.

In your case, at the floor drain/shower area... if vent blocked should have seen delayed drainage with sputtering/gurgling, etc... but would still drain down pretty quick.

I think you may have had an iced over vent... perhaps... and that could explain the issues you were having a little while back upstairs... and of course, that would have affected the drains in basement as well.

At this point, however , everything sounds OK upstairs... so IF basement shower still causes floor drain to back up and stay up... then drain has to be clogged.

Let me know what you find when you run that shower again. Talk soon

Thanks for all of your thoughtful responses.

After a week of no problems, yesterday we ran several showers, wash machine loads, toilet flushes with no problem backing up into the floor drain at all. No indication of any type of blockage, no gurggling or spitting, nothing. Then this morning it all backed up. Every fixture that we run causes the water to back up into the floor drain, whether from upstairs or down stairs. I'm now totally lost as to what is going on now. I thought for sure that the vent blockage was the answer, and with the snow and ice melting some the last few days, it all seemed to make sense that the blockage was due to snow and ice build-up in the vent.

Every fixture in the house when ran causes water to come up through the floor drain in the basement. Although, it isn't a total blockage. After a few minutes it will drain down, which seems to indicate a main line blockage, or something going on in the septic tank.

Any further ideas?

Yes JD... kinda what I have been saying since we started... your main drain line is clogged!

Actually it is probably the baffle at the septic tank. Time to call in the pros... they can find cover to septic tank and expose to find the baffle at the tank opening.

You can try to snake from inside to the septic first, but most likely that will only be temporary and you will finally need to access the inside of tank where the pipe enters the septic tank and clear all the junk off the top of the fitting.

That should finally resolve this for you.

Actually it is probably the baffle at the septic tank. .

What exactly is the baffle in the tank? Is it something that moves or opens?

When we had the tank cleaned last Fall, they said they felt something get sucked up around the baffle, and that the problem we had been experiencing should be resolved. I chalked that up to a tank that needed to be cleaned, not something impeding the baffle.

THANK YOU!

To me it sounds like the partial blockage you had in the shower line move to the main drain.

In this case, the septic guy needs to remove the cover and inspect the inlet tee fitting at the entrance inside the tank. This gets clogged up for a number of different reasons.

Look at this site... review... will answer all questions:

Septic Tank Inspection and Trouble-shooting, from the MSU Extension Service (http://www.montana.edu/wwwpb/pubs/mt9403.html)

I have provided a couple of pics. To give you basic idea of setup and the access covers that need to be found so can inspect the fittings.

Start by snaking the drain line from inside to outside.. see how that goes... then may need to go outside.. :( Keep us posted.


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