I was told to return an all purpose 3 gal tub of mastic that Lowe's guy recommended for inside alcove shower/tub ceiling 3x5 area.. Should I use unmodified thinset mortar?. I am using 6x6 porcelain tile on 3/8 hardibacker screwed to the ceiling and 9" surround at the top of an acrylic wall/ tub surround.. Is the unmodified thinset preferred for tiling on cement (hardibacker) or use modified thinset on the hardibacker board.. I'm going to get white or which ever shade closest to color of tile (almond in my case).. another project I have is on the 1st floor bathroom,the subfloor is 5/8 plywood should I use modified thinset for setting the hardibacker 1/2 to plywood 5/8 subfloor followed by the manufactures screw instructions/fiber tape slightly spaced seemed to floor joists? And lastly,go back to unmodified thinset (almond) for setting the 12x12 floor tiles to the cement hardibacker? Or just use modified thinset mortar throughout? Thank you in advance

On cement I use unmodified thinset but on Hardiebacker I use acrylic modified thinset. On the cement floor you may want to consider Ditra as your base. Schluter-DITRA - Schluter-Systems (http://www.schluter.com/6_1_ditra.aspx) By the way, you can use 1/4" Hardiebacker on the floor rather than 1/2" inless you needed to build up.

ballenger, So I should not use regular thinset over hardibacker on the ceiling inside the alcove tub area? Again , this is the first ceiling tile project I'm doing and should use the acrylicpro adhesive or similar knowing it is likely easier working upside down.. also, today I installed 1/4 EZ grid hardibacker over the existing 1/2 sheetrock using a left over 1gal. Can of acrylPro ceramic tile adhesive applied v notch 1/4 and screwed it tight using the durock 1 1/4 screws so I know it will be ready tomorrow. Glad I waited before trying the regular thinset to ceiling. I do believe it will be much easier working with the acrylic adhesive. One last thing, I'm using 1/4 spacers on 6x6 porcelain tile, should I keep off the inside corner ceiling about an 1/4" tiles look alittle better than a 1/4 thick , so once the ceiling is up and set I'm going to use an adhesive caulk around the perimeter before continuing the walls ( about 10") around the tub unit. Thank you again

JON... use 1/16th tile spacer on the 6x6 tile... maybe 1/8".....but not 1/4" (thick grout lines can crack.. especially overhead! My opinion). AND tell me... how did that cast iron tub drop in... hmmm.. Ballenger will answer the questions you asked him... I am sure. Keep in touch.

Mass, today is snowin day, can't get to Lowe's or depot for the modified thinset.. I had the right stuff in the first place but my dopey brother said return the mastic 3.5 premix and modified thinset for the cheaper regular thinset mortar!. so today I'm holding off until I can again return this (unmodified)thin set 50lb. Bag for a (modified) thinset I had the first time! I am going (overkill) as he put it with the modified thinset. Besides I went to hardibacker site and this is what they recommend. As for spacing, I agree staying thin on the grout lines, however, the (project director) my sister, wants 1/4 grout line. Main family bathroom still on hold, waiting for the plumber to change out the roughin valve and waiste lines from lead/cast to pvc as planned,can't do much until than. I have the tub tarped in backyard. The other bathroom home project underway is the upstairs room. Spackling done, today start ceiling paint approx,1000sq ft. of ceiling painting today. Also, just replacing old blistering masonite crap board with 6x6 unglazed porcelain tile. Shower tub upper portion flange 10" of wall/ 3x5' ceiling. I am guessing the best startoff is finding center on the 3x5 ceiling.. lay out with size spacer count out to cut corner tiles It works out about an inch less off each end to wall on the 5' layout.. from bullnose , full tiles to backwall shorties?

Mass, I'm going to check up on the spacing again, if it were me I'd certainly go thin on the grout line, but she wants the same size spacers showcased in the store. I tried to tell her thinner is best but she wants 3/16 -1/4 space she seen displayed in Lowe's where we picked up the tile. I doubt I'll be tiling today , will double check do a little more DD.. later today painting, she's sponge mopping the dust now preping for painting. Heavy snow shoveling today in the nnj area

You can use any spacing your wife wants but nromal installation you use the 1/4 spacer for 12x12 tiles. I'd use a premixed grout that is stain proof, its about $24 for a 5 lbs. tub but it will not shrink, crack or stain and it will hold better when you do your overhead work. I would not use a 3 part expoxy overhead. Remember, thinset on concrete and modified acrylic thinset for Hardiebacker, Wonderboard or plywood. When your side wall meets the back wall you should keep the tiles spaced the same as you have done on the surface, 1/4" in your case. Do not grout this verticle seam, use a silicone caulk that is mildew proof. DAP makes some good ones called PLUS.

Hey ballenger, now you really got me thinking, could you please review this link Removing grout from Venetian Stone - InfoTile Forum (http://www.infotile.com.au/ubb/Forum1/HTML/003919.html) and specifically the poster cindea about her grout situation.. I will have to now re-think the bag of sand grout the Lowe's guy recommended too. Thanks

Ballenger check this tileguybob tile for shower walls - InfoTile Forum (http://www.infotile.com.au/ubb/Forum3/HTML/001709.html) diffinitely getting the modified thinset for everything in both bathrooms. Thank you again! Might be too busy for Lowe's tonight with all this snowmelt.. will get it all tomorrow. Tonight I want to research some links for the materials in question. Check this tile out what she picked and please give me your opinion for the bathrooms.6" x 6" Porcelain Rialto Beige Tile BN OUTCNR (http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=160128-34692-G1TG11BA&lpage=none) thanks much good buddy!

I also read on hardibacker site to wet sponge hardibacker prior to applying modified thinset.. I'm going with 1/4 notch trowel. Later!

Okay, you got to see this guys tips Ceramic Wall Tile Tips (http://www.askthebuilder.com/B226_Ceramic_Wall_Tile_Tips.shtml) particularly about which wall to start first, I'm inclined to think the backwall first than the two smaller sides and ceiling last.. And using 100 % clear silicon around the inside corners and shower flange. Keeping the tiles a 1/16 th along all inside corners and flange.. still haven't decided yet as spacer size but she wants it at least 3/16 or 1/4 will keep looking for something for bathtub alcove ceilings. One other thing, this guy likes to use 100% silicon caulk on all the cement board inside corners/seams.. I would like using glass tape on the seams too prior thinsetting. Yes, I see it better waterproofing doing walls first ceiling last... no top grout line to fail.. wall tile goes 1/16 to hardibacker ceiling and gets a bead of silicon before the ceiling shorts (cut to finish) are butted a 1/16th against the walls! Of coarse I will work my full tile from the bullnose to the back wall. I think I'm getting there, and with you here to help me and you probably will! Lol

You can use any spacing your wife wants but nromal installation you use the 1/4 spacer for 12x12 tiles. I'd use a premixed grout that is stain proof, its about $24 for a 5 lbs. tub but it will not shrink, crack or stain and it will hold better when you do your overhead work. I would not use a 3 part expoxy overhead. Remember, thinset on concrete and modified acrylic thinset for Hardiebacker, Wonderboard or plywood. When your side wall meets the back wall you should keep the tiles spaced the same as you have done on the surface, 1/4" in your case. Do not grout this verticle seam, use a silicone caulk that is mildew proof. DAP makes some good ones called PLUS.
Okay, but was wondering about the insider corners "side walls meeting the back and likewise with the ceiling meeting the walls , wouldn't be better to keep it thin like a 1/16 rather spaced the same ? Or are you saying it will look unprofessional?The reason I ask is because isn't a 1/4 bead of silicon going to stick out against the sandgrout? I'll do as you say if you say keep it the same!

Most of those disasters happened because people do not always follow the directions. I have used TrafficMaster several times with no issue but I stay on the project and don't let things harden too much before cleaning the grout. I big sponge and bucket of warm water and I my first wipe after about 10-15 minutes of setting the grout. Second wipe about 15 more minutes and I keep repeating the process until the tile looks clean and I can't hear any abrasive in the sponge. I usually wash down with white vinegar after about 4 hours and the guy who suggested cheese cloth is starting me thinking of another new approach, I may try his lemon oil next week. When finishing 1/4" grout lines remember that God gave you 8 free grout tools, 10 if you can use you thumbs. A wet finger running back and forth in a grout line can really give it a finished look like no other tool. I almost forgot about the inside corner question. You can go smaller than 1/4 if you want but I try to keep all grout lines the same size. I use those same 8 tools for silicon caulk in the corners.

Also note Jon.. that mildew resistant silicone/caulking come in different colors nowadays... look on line... For example, Kohler has a designer series of bathroom caulks to match their tub colors... Also, some of the grout manufacturers also make matching caulk colors... should be able to find one that closely approximates your grout color. Just wanted to mention is all.

Now you got my thinking MASS. Didn't know Kolher had this so I'm going to search a few porcelain tile and grout companies. I do lots of shower and I'd like to get that perfect match. The stuff I've been using gives you clear, white and almond, period.

Yeah... I stumbled onto this stuff about a year ago... I'll tell you, no more cracked grout or separated grout lines between tile and tub for me anymore... just this clean bead of color matched silicone. Have good day.

Yes mass/ballenger, did some research here last Friday LATICRETE® International > Homeowners > Products > Stain Resistance Grouts/Epoxy Grouts (http://www.laticrete.com/DoItYourself/Products/EpoxyGrout/tabid/224/Default.aspx) picked up the matching sand grout color caulk too for tile corners/stall flange. Plumber suppose to get started with waiste lines and possibly set tub tomorrow too. Really want the tub to wait until hardibacker is cemented/screwed level to subfloor before setting in the tub. Last night did the ceiling first took me awhile longer than I actually thought it would. 4 tile out for the tile cutter tomorrow to finiish round receased highhat.. will do the 3 small walls tomorrow starting with the back and I'll wait a few days before using this expensive sealant grout. They certainly don't want to give you much for your money! Lol sheesh 20 bucks + the c for 4 dollars more this groutplus better be worth it in the long run! I did mix the thinset gold in a small rectagular tub and used a small square trowel with the stardard 1/4 knotch. My first batch was to creamy and after 5 tile knew it was time for a dryer mix.. still took another mix to finally get that imperative consistency for ceiling work! Lol it came out straight and looks very professional.. I even used a cedar shake to help clean out/even helped straighten grout lines, and was sure to sponge clean each finished row as I went.. and kepted the sponge water clean so the tiles did dry nice and clean. The caulk will be used last, after all trim/bullnose work is complete. I was sure to leave a grout line space on the outside dropceiling where the trim or bullnose will set flush with the ceiling!

Mass, it is nice to know kohler has a match color for their tubs but, I most likely be using the same company products. This sanded grout color silicon based caulk is specified for their texture and grout colors. Thank you too

I was wondering about the glow on the dark spectra plus and dazzle after waching their video ! Might be good for home resale! Lol

I have a question about another project, the bathroom upstairs I used the modified thinset for the ceiling and it was on hardibacker as was specified by manufacture for the 6x6 tile I mentioned.. the downstairs ceiling tub 3x5 is this new GP densarmorplus sheetrock, which is mold resistant waterproof fiber glass coated paper gypsum board.. should I be better off with a acrylpro plus mastic for the same tile ? The walls will be thinset to hardibacker, but wondering if this mastic will prove efficient as described by nmanufacture?

okay, did a bit of research on acrylpro site and this is what I learned.. ANSI (American Standard Specifications for the Installation of Ceramic Tile) is an organization that sets-up performance standards for mortars designed to set ceramic tile. A mortar meeting A118.1 is an unmodified, dryset mortar that doesn't contain a polymer. Unmodified mortars are adequate for basic tile jobs such as a residential floor over concrete or a wall tile job when setting ceramic tile. For more demanding installations a polymer-modified mortar is required. Polymer-modified mortars meet ANSI A118.4 standards. You can use a mortar that is already polymer-modified (latex is in the powder) or an unmodified mortar and a liquid latex additive that is used in place of the water requirement. Installations requiring a polymer-modified mortar are when setting porcelain tile or large tile over 12” x 12”, in wet areas, high traffic areas, exterior installations, commercial installations, surfaces that could be subject to minor movement, installing tile over vinyl flooring, plastic laminates or other hard to bond surfaces or setting tile over a waterproof membrane. Installing tile directly over exterior grade plywood requires a mortar with special bonding capabilities, so these installations require a mortar that meets A118.11 standards. Also, the mastic although may seem to meet the requirements for ceiling tiling, isn't better than the polymer-modified mortar I am using.

You are well on your way to becoming a tiling pro. Seems like you have some great skill expanding projects going on. Good luck, Bob

Thank you Bob for helping me too! Maybe I might do this for a living! If the money is there! Lol.. nah, I'm a handyman by trade, bonded and insured, very slow this time of year! Just trying to do my best with each project going forward! Today call laticrete and spoke with support about the expoxy grout.. also asked him if the 1500 sand modified poly grout ( 25lb. Bag) is okay to use in the upper portion of the upstairs bathalcove.. he suggested I first use a sealer/allow to dry prior to grouting these rialto stone tiles. Also to sealant the 1500 grout after a few days too. The expensive apoxy groutplus I will surely use on the 1st floor project knowing the moisture situation, 75 bucks for 3 units should do it,will certainly go small on the grout lines too downstairs project. You have a good day sir!

I have had a few problems with laticrete. It's a 3 part expoxy and not fun to blend. Once blended you have about 40 minutes before it quickly reacts and sets up. The first 15 minutes the stuff is too runny for 1/4" wall lines, then you have about 15 minutes of perfect consistency, after that its starting to set. I switched to a pre-mixed strainproof grout that air dries in an hour, it has body right out of the can but its no cheaper.

Bob I read you, I wasn't too thrilled watching the video demo on their site showing the A/B epoxies being squeezed out and these units needing a part C (sand color mix) that is quart sized.. you mentioned you use stainproof grout premixed for about the same price.. this is 2.5 lb carton of sand with a two part epoxy at 25 bucks!. I would much more be satified with the product you are using, Traffic Master you say it's like 25 bucks a gallon ? That still is a lot cheaper compared to 25 dollar quart mixing 3 units of grout! Lol thanks ahead!

$25 per 3.5lbs tub, not a gallon. I have most of my stuff out at a job that I won't see until Saturday. I have used TrafficMaster with success but this other grout is different and I can't remember the name at the moment. I will in a day or two, age thing. I have a few 25 lbs door stops orf that 3 part expoxy, works well as a boat anchor too. That latricrete is like pudding when you mix part 1 & 2 but when you add the sand it gets like a very stiff mortar but it is very elastic and can sag for about 15 minutes, makes a messy verticle grout line.

I'm going with whatever you say at this point.. remember a few tile dropping because my thinset was to wet.. I want easiest solution for the ceiling , I will wait for your product.. I did read up on the traffic master sold at the home depots.. but if you know of something else you like using even better please let me know! I will gladly wait for you to post it in a few days.. I am in no real rush yet.. thanks again for sharing your skills and expertise bob, look forward to getting this job finished so I can do some fishing! Been a weird winter and only did one ice fishing trip upstate ny.

You can set your tiles in the modified thinset and grout next week. I'm going to be getting some supplies tomorrow or Thursday and will check on the grout product name. We have had more than double the average snow here in Chicago. I'm sick of this white stuff. Ice fishermen had a big bond fire out on the lake in front of my cabin. They were warmed by the fire and what was in their bottles.

Yeah, lots of snow, clouds moving in and a lot of snw predicted here too... not doing so good business wise, but getting back to my home project in the bathrooms, downstairs still on hold due to order of vanity fixtures etc. can't do the tub yet either so all tiling is on hold. Upstairs is pretty much dome cept for grouting and outside alcove molding or bullnose. A question I have is that I did the ceiling first starting slightly inside the ceiling and was wondering should I have started the dropcieling bullnose first and pertruding the ceiling tile underneath the bullnose? Or being as it is, and as I see best, finish it with a composite detailed trim casing instead of tile to trim this outside line prior caulking with sand grout tube caulk? I have both materials here and think the casing looks better finished and will certainly be a lot easier than trying to hang this bullnose.

Man if you could show me a picture or drawing I/m sure I'd get what you said. However, reading your description was more than difficult for me. I guess I have difficulty what I read, sorry Jon. visualizing

No need for apoligy and it is me not you,lol I read it and have a hard time understanding it too!. let me ask this.. did I do right by tiling the ceiling first/backwall second and both shorty walls last as I did saving the bullnose or preferred trim work outside of tub alcove enclosure? My meaning was that if you could picture the drop ceilings corner bead ( parallel with where the shower curtain rod would be on the alcove) would you have deliberately overhung the ceiling tile to accept a bullnose in thickness or ran the tile as I did flush with the corner bead of the drop ceiling? Eitherway, there is a seem to caulk, in my case the seem on the outside corner will be on the ceiling side.. the detailed trim casing will be the fascia sort of speak. No digital pic sorry.. roger one over?.

Your sequence of install was fine. There are some rules for tiling but what it all comes down to is making it look good to your eye. I usually do the ceiling first so the seam is on the wall and not the ceiling, I want to see that last seam. I do the side walls second so the seam is on the back wall, I want to see it. No hard fast rule just what looks best to the home owner. I also make the seam between the bull nose and the next tile directly where the shower door side rails will be screwed into the wall, less ceramic drilling to install the rails.

Ballenger, today grouted the upstairs shower bath ceiling alcove with the bag modified sand grout laticrete 1500. Also went with the designer molding just above ceiling tile outside alcove.. butted level to tile with just enough reveal for the almond sand caulking. A few days I'll seal the grout lines. It was a bit of pain in the neck , was sure to make a dry mix and needed the hawk to catch what fell when using the grout sponge. A lot of spongwashing for this stone porcelain tile. Wish I did have digital pic for you cause it came out pretty good. Grout lines a little heavy but downstair alcove will certainly go 1/16 spacers inside the wet area. Floor I'll go 3/8. oh thanks again

Hey Jon, here is that grout I have been using. You can also get a perfectly matching chaulk for shower stalls and seams. TEC intros new AccuColor Grout and Caulk colors. (Products). | National Floor Trends | Find Articles at BNET.com (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_hb5598/is_200305/ai_n23582735) Looks like I' m a bit late with the info but it is still worth knowing about.

Ballenger, Still waiting on the vanity, can't proceed with any phase of project until the wall plumbing is revamped for different size vanity.. going from double sink 60" to a 48" single, so the plumber will come once this orderis in with the matching shower faucets/diverter. Meanwhile, thank you for the grout recommendation, will certainly look for it over here!