Hello
We live in a 5th floor apartment and ever since we have moved in there has been a very strong odor coming from the kitchen sink. We don't have a disposal. It smells like sewer and seems to start when hot water is ran down the sink. But then, other times it will be very strong first thing in the morning when no water has ben down it. The only way we can get rid of the smell is to run cold water down the sink for hours. We have had plumbers come by to check it but they all give the excuse that they can't do anything about it until they smell it?? Its got to the point that I think they just do this because we are on the 5th floor and it would be too big of a job to try to fix any problem. Needless to say we will be moving in 2 months when the lease it up but Ive been worried about if this could be a health hazard? Would appreciate any information if anyone has had this problem before.. or what it could possibly be. Thank you

Hey katetea... pipes have junk on the sides... can get to smelling pretty bad. None of the plumbers suggested replacing the pipes... huh? And I am sure you have a p-trap under the sink... yes (see pic. Below)?

Could always try a 1/2 cup bleach down the drain... let sit overnight then wash down with about 6 cups boiling water... that should help reduce smell a little.

OR could use some baking soad and vinegar to foam up the drain lines... again.. let sit overnight... and then add boiling water to flush away. Either one should help reduce odors.

Let me know if that helped. And as long as there is a ptrap under sink there should not be any health hazards!!

If my answer helped please RATE THIS ANSWER. Thank you.

Sewer gas can become a health problem so I'd continue trying to get this fixed. Since you are renting it's the landlords responsibility to hire a competent plumber who will assess your problem. It sounds like your trap is not working. Does you drain go into the wall after the trap or does it go straight down through the cabinet floor after the trap?

Hi.. thanks for the quick response.. we have put gallons of bleach down the sink before.. was the plumbers idea. Which didn't solve the problem. Under the sink is a trap but it doesn't look like the picture you showed. Its more like a cup shape. They have checked it before and said that water was in it, so it supposedly was working OK. We have had several plumbers here but we still get the same answer that they cant... or more like won't... do anything until they smell it... makes no sense and its aggrevating and scarey. The drain goes into the wall after the trap

Hey Katetea... how many floors above you?

One floor above us

The trap look anything even close to this pic.

I am just wondering if the trap is getting siphoned (having water pulled out as water from sink upstairs drains past your sink). Not that it matters at this point. If trap is in place... no hazards.. that we can prove.

No.. its shaped like a kids drinking cup with a round bottom , and you pull it off to take it off to check it.. they took it off before to show me. Im living in england right now and it might be something different they use over here that is different from the states?

MASS I was thinking siphoning too that why I was asking if this could be an S trap. Kate where do you live and any chance of a picture? Maybe you can Google plumbing sites in your country and capture a picture to post back to us.

YUP! I am sure that the trap is different from here then.

Can you post a pic..

As long as you don't think it's a health hazard... has had me worried a lot wondering, because all I would get for an answer from the plumbers is that there was no way that the sewage smells or anything else could be coming up through the kitchen sink plus its getting to the point where it actually makes me feel sick when the smell comes so I was getting worried and wanted to check

Look anything like this trap?

Yeah I will try to get a pic of it for you

I wonder... do you know the people upstairs well enough to ask them to fill their sink full and then drain it? You must stand in front of your sink when they drain their sink.. see if gurgles or bubbles..? If it does, then your trap may be getting siphoned which would suggest that system was piped wrong and you would have a case for them to change pipes. If not... then I am stumped!

Did you see pic. Of third trap?

Where do you live Kate? Sewer gas smells just like you'd expect sewage to smell, pooh. If this is what you are smelling them you have a venting issue or bad trap. You vent pipe in the wall could even be cracked or broken loose.

I took a pic of it with my cell phone... do I just attach it on one of these messages? Sorry but I'm new at this

Yes that is what it looks like sorry I didn't see the pic before

You are doing fine. Yes just attach it to your message. I think if you open the "Go Advanced" box to the left of spell check it will help you.

I'm not sure if there is anyone living above us but its worth checking it to see if that could be the cause of it... thank you both so much for all your help and information

Post pic. If you want too... exactly as Ballenger said.

I still want you to talk to your neighbor upstairs and see if they will fill/drain sink for you. Keep me posted if this is possible.

The smell is just like the sewer smell that is outside sometimes... is awful and coming up through the kitchen sink

Kate, I must leave for a few hours but MASS has your trap pictured with his 3rd picture. He'll stick with you and I'll check back later. What country do you live in??

6286

I live in england

OK, MASS has identified your trap but there still may be other sources for your sewer gas. Can you see where the horizontal drain pipe connects to the larger pdrain pipe in the wall? Do you see any cracks on any of these pipes or can you fine your vent stack, it eventually goes through your roof.

Hey Bob... wondering if she could have a defective studor vent... huh? I mean reaching for straws here... but a thought.

Katetea... I hope you are working at gaining access to upstairs kitchen sink... fill/drain and watch like I suggested earlier.

Then.. as Ballenger said... is that a tee fitting in there behind the wall (take flashlight and try to see if fitting is an 90 degree elbow or a tee looking fitting just as pipe enters into the wall).

And another thought is... well... why not just have them replace that trap under sink...it looks easy enough to do....buy at a home supply store and replace.... wonder what is inside that trap?? I mean, even if you were told it is OK... does not necessarily mean it is OK... right? It could have some real gunk tied up somewhere..? Just thinking aloud here...

Also.. is that a dishwasher hose tying into sink drain on right?? That could cause some odor.. Maybe.

Finally, as I look at the pic. you posted...I see a double sink (yes?), a dishwasher connected into drain on right (yes?) but what is coming off the left sink fitting that is a y shape? I can see the tee part going to sink (I think) on right...but what is going into drain at y part of tee...????

Get back to us. Try to answer all questions. Thank you

Let us know. Thank you.

You know I just totally forgot the failure rate of AAVs. They just don't all work forever and a bad AAV would be an answer. Kate, try wrapping the AAV with aseveral layers of Saran wrap and a few rubber bands. If there is not smell tomorrow morning it would mean the AAV needs to be replaced. You could use your sink with the wrap in place but it will gurgle and chug a bit.

Hi... I don't see any cracks anywhere in the pipes and the one going behind the wall is a 90 degree angle one. Yes, on the right is a dishwasher and the odor does come sometimes after the dishwasher has finished. On the left is a washing machine and after running that it doesn't cause the smell. I haven't got ahold of the neighbors, I don't think anyone is living up there.
What I did today just to see if hot water would cause the smell is run the hot for a little while and then shut it off... it wasn't 5 min later and the smell is really strong. It did that every time today. When we first moved in here the landlord sent the caretaker of the buildings to check it and he took all the pipes apart to check and clean them and he swore and still does today that what he found in there was pooh. But the plumbers say there is no way that could happen. I don't know its very strange that it gets really strong after running hot water... and running cold will take the smell away. But then also it will sometimes do it without running the hot water.

katetea... is there a threaded vent under the sink?. something that is not clear in picture appears to be an automatic air vent... see pics. Below. Do you have anything under your sink that even remotely looks like the pic.?

No nothing like that

At this point then, without opening walls and/or draining that sink upstairs... I am stumped.

It does sound like you have an overloaded drain system... a washing machine, 2 sinks, a dishwasher... all on a 1.5 inch drain line... sounds overloaded... anything else on that line?

If hot water did not cause odor 5 minutes afterwards today I would swear your washer is siphoning the sink drain... but anyway.

Also, you said that people would not work on pipes until they could smell odor... well sounds like you can make it happen all the time now... and you said they said there was POOH in the drain line... I would want to know what that meant.

You could always call the board of health (or the equivalent) in your area and let them know what is happening.see what they think.

Let me know if I missed something.

If you are interested I took another picture of the pipes... its a lot lighter and clearer. The hot water did cause the odor today every time I tried it

It can't hurt.

Will send so you can at least have a clearer picture. We called the 24 hr plumber today but no answer.. of course. Guess the only thing to do is to keep calling until he will answer. I want to thank you for all your answers and help... its nice to finally get someone that will try to help!6314

I will do the paper towel thing and see what happens. I tried the drain plug but that didn't help much, even put towels in the sink to cover it but the only thing that will take the odor away is running the cold water down the sink.

We are glad to help... and glad to be challenged.

Last thought for me... is there any way that you can tie this back to the timing of washing your clothes??

I would take those pipes under the sink apart...yourself...see what you find. You should only need a pair of pliers...something tells me that that trap under the sink is defective. It is only thing that makes sense at this point. By the way.. I mean you should replace the trap.. or demand that the owner replace it. Let me know what happens.


Anyway, good luck with your next house!!

Could this be a venting problem. Lay a couple of wet paper towels over drain, see if they get sucked down into or partially into drain. To stop odor put drain plug in.

Whenever, IF ever , we finally do find out what this mess is, I will let you know. Once again.. thank you so much!

If plugging the drains doesn't stop the oder it must be coming in through the dishwasher or clothes washer.

Just for fun leave a little water in both the dishwasher and the clothes washer.

Hi harold... yeah we worked the vent issues out as best she could... she does not own the property and can not even access upstairs plumbing.

Very complicated... read posts. Let us know your thoughts!

Yea, I posted , then realised that I had only read page 1. I deleated my post, but before I could delete she read the post. I reposted after reading all the post so her reply would make sense. Makes me look stupid but it is what it is.

Harold... you can never look stupid... believe me, some can.. but not you ;) Good night!

what i did today just to see if hot water would cause the smell is run the hot for a little while and then shut it off... it wasnt 5 min later and the smell is really strong. it did that everytime today. ..............

I dont know its very strange that it gets really strong after running hot water...and running cold will take the smell away. But then also it will sometimes do it without running the hot water.

Some where later she said that cold water was only thing that would stop odor and that only lasted for a period.

Hot water heats trap and pipes. Hot water equals hot, rising air. Rising air pulls odors out of dishwasher (or washing machine). Cold water stops rising air. Could there be decaying waste food in dishwasher pump? What was "pooh" in trap? Don't know how long this has been going on. Sounds like a long time. Wonder if dishwasher has intergal disposal unit.
I wonder how that black hose stays connected.

Katetea.
Something to try. Assuming that the white ribbed hose is the dishwasher.
Remove hose, put a piece of plastic over the end of the pipe to the drain.
Reconnect dishwasher hose over the plastic. Nut should screw back on over the plastic, effectively blocking the dishwasher line.
Don't use dishwasher for a day to see if odor presist.

Put your best bonnet in the dishwasher as a reminder not to use it.

All good ideas HK. I hope she gets them. And yeah... I wondered about that "pooh" thing, too.

That best bonnet thing... very funny ;)

Hi.. we just had a plumber come by and I had ran the hot water so he could try to figure out what it is. He checked all the pipes.. they were clean he said and can't exactly figure out where its coming from. He said the best thing to do is replace all the piping under the sink to see if that takes it away, if not then it has to be a problem with the stack. Also found out that the stack ends at our floor since the ones above us is a penthouse. So to me, although I am not a plumber it seems like the odors would be coming from the stack that ends right by our kitchen sink? If that's the case, would be a major job I imagine to fix... just wanted to let you know what's going on... still no answer to it yet but hopefully will be soon!

Stack should be vented to roof. If stack is not vented, the water flowing down the drain will pull all of the water out of your trap and you will get sewer gasses. If not vented to the roof gas will come out where ever vent ends. Don't think changing pipes under sink is going to fix anything.

YUP... HK said it Kate... hey, if you want to... ask the plumber if he will install an automatic air vent in the drain line (looks like the pics I posted of vents on page #2 of this thread).

I am not sure if allowed in England... but if they are I would recommend it... cannot hurt.

This will prevent siphoning of trap we discussed earlier. I hope that does it... at least this guy is willing to look into it for you...

AND KATETEA... try what HK suggested about your dishwasher... if you have an integral disposal unit.. it could have some food particles stuck/breaking down in it and that could cause odor.

My bet at this time though is that you should replace parts and install a new automatic vent. Thanks for keeping us posted.

Thanks hkstroud, I didn't think changing them would help either, especially since they were clean, but I imagine that is what the landlord will want first. I think this is grounds to get out of our lease early! Had enough of these fumes for the past 9 months. Literally sick and tired of it.. thanks for your information!

Thanks Mass for your help too. The plumber is going to call the landlord to find out what he wants done. Im just so tired of it all, the smell, the runaournd, the nothing getting done. So its nice to be able to "vent" (ha) on here. But I truly do appreciate all of your suggestions on here! Will let you know what happens.. if??

"Also found out that the stack ends at our floor since the ones above us is a penthouse." Who told you this? The entire building gets vented to the roof, penthouse or no. Stacks terminate in the open air above the roof line of they won't work properly. I agree that replacing those pipe under the sink are a waste of someone's money. The smell isn't there with cold water, right? There is no smell at other fixtures hot or cold so its not bacteria in the water heater. I am about to say stick a fork in me cause I'm done. I have run out of logical solutions, sorry.

The plumber today said that, like he wasn't surprised as if the penthouse is different? My partner said that one of the plumbers told him that it was OK to do it this way because we were up high? Sounds like a story to me... unless they do things different here in england. Doesn't make you feel too safe though. And right the smell doesn't come with cold... the cold takes the odor away... only the hot brings it. No need to be sorry, I appreciate all the information and help! Thanks!

"smell doesnt come with cold... the cold takes the odor away... only the hot brings it" This makes me think its not a vent or a trap problem. Run a bucket of hot water and take the bucket to another room and smell it. Does tha water have the odor you are smelling?

We run the hot water and shut it off and less than 5 min the odor comes up from the sink... but I can try the bucket of hot water and see

I tried doing what you said but there is no odor to the water... I'm up to any suggestions that might help :)

Sorry but I thought that possibly you had a contaminated water supply pipe but apparently not. Maybe MASS will think of something we have not explored but this one is very, very unusual. Does the last plumber smell the odor?

Its OK... like I said it doesn't hurt to try anything. I think everyone is worn out trying to figure this one out . Its so nice that everyone has been helpful with so many different causes it could be. And yes, the plumber did smell the odor today but he can't figure out where its coming from, especially since the pipes were clean. Said he could replace them all but couldn't guarantee it would get rid of the odor, and if it doesn't then it is probably the stack. I will post on here when I do find out what it was. Thanks again!

In all of our posts I had forgotten that this is an apartment. Time to get tough with the landlord and tell him sewer gas is a health hazard and he must get this fixed maybe even mention it to your local health department and/or building inspector to see what they think.

Hi , the people that built this building came by today to see if they can figure out what the problem is, they checked the pipes and said nothing was wrong with them. I asked them about the stack not going to the roof and they told me it didn't have to , that it was sealed off? So I don't know what that means. They also looked at the side of the dishwasher, they wouldn't pull it out because they didn't install it and didn't want to chance doing something to the floor or the dishwasher. Anyway they said that by looking through to the side of the dishwasher that it didn't have a vent on it? And that is no doubt what is causing the odor when the hotwater is ran. Now its up to us to try and get the landlord (once again) to see if this is the problem. Just wanted to let you know what is going on... and on... and on... still

The person who came by was not very knowledgeable about plumbing. The vent is not on a dishwasher at all. They were blowing smoke at you. The drain pipes have vents not the individual fixtures and you can not cap of a vent stack and expect a system to work. If they built the building why would they build a vent pipe and then seal it off. I'm am so close to telling you to call the local building inspecter or health department.

Hi Katetea:

Thanks for keeping in touch.

I do not know about England plumbing, necessarily, but I do know that all fixtures need to be vented.. so when they tell you pipe doesn't have to go to roof and it is "sealed off"... they are wrong! Once again I point you to your local building/plumbing inspector...ASK HIM if vent pipe from kitchen sink can be "sealed off"...I am quite sure he will not like that.

The "vent" for dishwasher... do you think they mean a dishwasher AIR GAP fitting... some places, even here require air gap fittings to dishwashers... MOST places, however just ask plumbers to create a high loop so that water from sink can not drain back down and into dishwasher. This works just fine. Your sink looked high looped. Anyway, see what landlord says about this VENT for dishwasher... keep us posted.

Hello everyone
I think they have finally fixed the problem here! The plumber came by yesterday and put a trap on the dishwasher, kind of looks like the picture you sent on here on the first page,mass. He said that without that on it there was nothing stopping the smells coming in. Its only been one day but so far it looks good! No odors here last night after running the dishwasher and running the hot water down the sink a few times. So hopefully its fixed... finally! Once again I want to thank everyone that has replied to my questions on here.. They were all so helpful and I really do appreciate it!
~ Kate

Hmmmm.. thought the dishwasher was hooked into your kitchen sink drain trap..? Hey, I'm just glad it is fixed.. *crossing fingers*... thanks for update!

No, it was separate. The landlord had the dishwasher installed after this place was built. Im not exactly sure where the hose goes to from the dishwasher (its goes in and behind the wall) but its not connected under the sink.

Hello
This will be my last post on this question, but just wanted to let you know it IS fixed! Hard to believe it took them over 10months to figure out it was the lack of an airgap trap on the dishwasher. We are still moving in a week but at least we found out what was causing the odor.. thanks to all of your help! This is a great site! And once again, thank you so much for all your help on here!