Quick question. I have seen a lot of these threads where people are confused about what constitutes virginity. I was just wondering what most of you thought about oral sex. If you have had oral sex but not intercourse, are you still considered a virgin?

I have moved your question to a thread of it's own. It's not a good idea to piggyback your question on someone else's thread as it causes confusion and your question may go unanswered.

Yes, as for as I know most people view this as a virgin.

I have moved your question to a thread of it's own. It's not a good idea to piggyback your question on someone else's thread as it causes confusion and your question may go unanswered.

Sorry, I apologize for that. I was actually worried that people would get angry because I was posting another similar topic. Thanks for clarifying things.

Just keep it simple, intact hymen, you're a virgin. :)

You may be the oral sex queen of your town, but keep it simple... hymen intact, you're a virgin! ;)

What about from a guys perspective? If he has only had oral sex but not intercourse, is he still a virgin?

Yeah... to me, virginity depends upon actual sexual intercourse (penetration... whether it be vaginal or anal)

Honey,

Don't be so concerned with what men say... you want to be a virgin, say you're a virgin. It is none of anyone's business but your own. You had sex last year and don't have a hymen, hey, you lost your hymen when you were horsebackriding when you were twelve.

Don't be subservient to men. Think for yourself about you sexuality. :)

Folks, See how silly and outdated the term virgin is?? A girl can be the biggest whore in town and never been penetrated by a penis.

I'm not referring to anyone here or anywhere.

Choux: This may surprise you but I'm actually a guy. I was just curious about what constitutes a virgin. See I'm a 22 year old male and I have only engaged in oral sex. So I was just curious what peoples thoughts were on whether such actions would classify you as a virgin or not. I have mixed feelings because I see oral sex as a very intimate act, but if a girl ever asked me if I were still a virgin I wouldn't really know whether to say yes or no. I just don't want to be a liar.

Confused,

It is no one's business. Tell anyone who asks yes, you are a virgin... or no, you're not. Whatever you wish. This has nothing to do with being a liar! It is no one's business.

My opinion, it is time for you to have intercourse. :)

My opinion, it is time for you to have intercourse. :)

Ha! Well I want my first time to be with a very special woman, that's how it was for oral sex and I want the same for intercourse. It's funny though, I do worry that I might be missing out on a lot of life experiences by waiting. I'm curious, what is everyone's opinion on this? I'm not asking anyone to make a decision for me, I just want to hear opinions.

Here is the dictionary definition of virgin,

vir·gin (vûrjn)
n.
1. A person who has not experienced sexual intercourse.
2. A chaste or unmarried woman; a maiden.
3. An unmarried woman who has taken religious vows of chastity.
4. Virgin The Virgin Mary.
5. Zoology A female insect or other arthropod that produces fertile eggs without copulating.
adj.
1. Of, relating to, or being a virgin; chaste.
2. Being in a pure or natural state; unsullied: virgin snow.
3. Unused, uncultivated, or unexplored: virgin territory.
4. Existing in native or raw form; not processed or refined.
5. Happening for the first time; initial.
6. Obtained directly from the first pressing: virgin olive oil.
7. Zoology Producing fertile eggs without copulating.

I'll let you decide based on this definition. Personally I think that as long as a female's hymen is not peirced by a penis (am I allowed to say that?) then she is a virgin, and unless a man vaginally enters a woman with his penis he is a virgin. Okay, this sound outdated to me, maybe we need to come up with a new definition.

Ha! Well I want my first time to be with a very special woman, that's how it was for oral sex and I want the same for intercourse. It's funny though, I do worry that I might be missing out on a lot of life experiences by waiting. I'm curious, what is everyones opinion on this? I'm not asking anyone to make a decision for me, I just want to hear opinions.


You sound like a very sweet and good young man. Ah, I honestly don't think you need other people's opinions my friend, frankly they could use yours ;) .

You keep following your heart and your very good thoughts, and I have a feeling, you will make that very special young lady, a very happy one.

You are not missing out on life's experiences... every day brings a new experience.

You sound like a fine young man - stick to your principles.

For what it's worth by definition, you are a virgin. Webster's defines a Virgin as "a person who has not had sexual intercourse". Since you have not had intercourse you are a virgin. I would simply tell a mate that you have fooled around, but never had real sex or intercourse.

Thanks a lot Allheart, your kind words definitely mean a lot. I hope that someday I will find that special person and when I do I hope she will be comfortable with my "lack of experience." :)

Well, now that we know the true definition of virgin. At least we know HE doesn't have to worry about a hymen being broken, ha ha. At first I thought it was a young lady, then found out it was a young man.

well, now that we know the true definition of virgin. at least we know HE doesn't have to worry about a hymen being broken, ha ha. at first I thought it was a young lady, then found out it was a young man.

LOL! I wonder why some people assumed that because I was asking a question about virginity that I would automatically be a woman. Is it because society has drilled into our heads the idea only women should be concerned about being a virgin? Interesting...

Thanks a lot Allheart, your kind words definitely mean a lot. I hope that someday I will find that special person and when I do I hope she will be comfortable with my "lack of experience." :)


I meant every word. And you will be that special someone and when that day does come, the two of you will be so lost in each other, that you just touching her hair will feel wonderful to her.

Remember, every man and every woman is different. So whether you had 50 past experiences or 0, every man always has that first time, with someone new and has to get to know what he or she likes anyway... so don't fret about no past history.

It's a natural act, that comes naturally. Especially the first time... and even more so when there are deep feelings for the person.

Your doing A okay :)

My Websters defines Virgin as someone who has not had sexual intercourse. With that definition you would be considered a virgin, as would your female counterpart. However, a man marrying a woman who tells him she's a virgin, and then months later discovers she's had oral sex with several people may feel completely duped. Perhaps, as Choux suggests, a person can be much less than pure and still be considered a virgin - by the dictionary, at least.

Perhaps your answer would be "according to Websters, yes I am".

Perhaps the question should change to reflect our changing times.

Look, here's the thing.

Virginity has to do with whether you've had sexual intercourse.

Sexual experience has to do with whether you've done anything ELSE, from kissing to oral sex.

If you aren't asking your partner these questions BEFORE you get married, you DESERVE to feel duped. Seriously... in an age when all sorts of sexual interaction can KILL you, you SHOULD be talking about it with your partner(s).

You don't have to give details, but you DO have to be honest.

Are you a virgin after giving (or receiving!) oral sex? I'd say yes. Are you "pure"? Nope. But... if you want "pure" in this day and age, you'd better get married at 10.

A LOT of the disagreement is because everyone seems to have different definitions--it's like that scene from "Clerks". She says she's had sex with x number of people, but has given oral to x others. He considers oral to be sex, and is just disgusted at the total number.

What it comes down to, for me, is "who cares?". Either you are, or you aren't. Either you have other experience, or you don't. As long as you've been safe, and done what YOU were ready for, and an active participant in---it's your damned sex life! If someone can't accept your past sexual history as part of who you are, then they should have a few rocks thrown at THEIR glass house, in my opinion.

I don't think so... Sex is sex. But that's my opinion! BUT WHY ARE PEOPLE SO ASHAMED OF NOT BEING VIRGINS!? I just don't get it... if you're going to regret it, don't do it... But really, it's not a bad thing to have sex. ENJOY IT.

I don't think so....Sex is sex. But that's my opinion! BUT WHY ARE PEOPLE SO ASHAMED OF NOT BEING VIRGINS!!?? I just don't get it...if you're going to regret it, don't do it...But really, it's not a bad thing to have sex. ENJOY IT.

For me it's not about being ashamed. Rather, its about wanting that first time to be with a very special woman.

Aww LOL u sound like such a sweet guy!

You cannot possibly lie. We cannot agree. Your first time with penetration you might just tell her that you've had oral sex done on you. Whether you are a guy or a girl, choux is right. It's no one's business but yours!

vir·gin /ˈvɜrdʒɪn/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[vur-jin] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–noun
1. a person who has never had sexual intercourse.
2. an unmarried girl or woman.
3. Ecclesiastical. An unmarried, religious woman, esp. a saint.
4. the Virgin, Mary, the mother of Christ.
5. Informal. Any person who is uninitiated, uninformed, or the like: He's still a virgin as far as hard work is concerned.
6. a female animal that has never copulated.
7. an unfertilized insect.
8. (initial capital letter) Astronomy, Astrology. The constellation or sign of Virgo.
–adjective
9. being a virgin: a virgin martyr.
10. of, pertaining to, or characteristic of a virgin: virgin modesty.
11. pure; unsullied; undefiled: virgin snow.
12. first: the senator's virgin speech.
13. without admixture, alloy, or modification: virgin gold.
14. not previously exploited, cultivated, tapped, or used: virgin timberlands; virgin wool.
15. without experience of; not previously exposed to: a mind virgin to such sorrows.
16. Informal. Being a mixed drink resembling a specific cocktail but made without any alcoholic ingredient: a virgin piña colada.
17. Zoology. Not fertilized.
18. (of a metal) made directly from ore by smelting, rather than from scrap.
19. noting the oil obtained, as from olives, by the first pressing without the application of heat.

Oral sex, anal sex, Hymen... If your gay and have anal sex or oral sex, can you still

What? What is the inventory list all about? Lol

Virgin should be considered having never had sex with another person. Period.

Not oral penetration or anal penetration is OK... as long as the vagina is never touched.

If you want to be considered a virgin you should have abstained from sex with others. Or you are committing false advertisement.

In my opinion.

OK. People lose the spirit of the phrase "virginity" by trying to have a strict definition. The original intention of the word was meant to define someone who was innocent. Let me be frank, you are not innocent if you are the blowjob queen of Kentucky. I think while the old school terminology may equate solely to vaginal sex, we have to be realistic.

I think you can consider yourself as having cashed in your V-card because you engaged in a sex act. Fellatio - I think- should count. Why not? It is an intimate sexual act. Technically, you are in fact, sexually experienced.

Quick question. I have seen a lot of these threads where people are confused about what constitutes virginity. I was just wondering what most of you thought about oral sex. If you have had oral sex but not intercourse, are you still considered a virgin?
I believe if any of your part touch any of their private parts or vice-versa you aren't a virgin.

Just because you are sucking on it or stuffing it up your butt doesn't let you pretend you are a virgin just because you avoided the remaining hole.

A virgin has not experienced sex... not oral sex, not anal sex, not bestiality, and not even if you were spanking his monkey.

I blame this on the Politically correctness crap.

There is no gray area here. If being a virgin is important to you then abstain from having any form of sex with another. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

Well, I'm a doctor of human sexuality, then.

I mean, I give people advice about it all the time.

I've examined several people.

I've taught people to have sex.

I've taken a few classes on it.

I just don't have the DEGREE.

But by Smoothy's logic, since I've done everything BUT get the degree, it means I'm a doctor.

You can all call me Dr. Synnen now.

Well, I'm a doctor of human sexuality, then.

I mean, I give people advice about it all the time.

I've examined several people.

I've taught people to have sex.

I've taken a few classes on it.

I just don't have the DEGREE.

But by Smoothy's logic, since I've done everything BUT get the degree, it means I'm a doctor.

You can all call me Dr. Synnen now.

There is a difference there... You might have gone through the school... but if you didn't take that last exam to get your sheepskin you aren't a Dr. yet.

The standards for different for virgin...

Virgins haven't had sex. If she is a deep throat queen then she isn't a virgin. If she's taken on entire groups of guys anally... she isn't a virgin. Even if she has avoided that one hole.

Contrary to what a certain ex-president claims. Oral sex is still sex.

Lets further extrapolate here. Assume this was your husband. And he's fooling around with this "Virgin". Is it sex if they did everything but Vaginal penetration?

And for you guys assume this is your wife. Would it be considered sex if all she did was perform oral or anal on this other guy?

If it looks like a duck, If it walks like a duck, and if it quacks like a duck, then it's a duck

Now I'm stuck, when you mentioned the wife/ husband scenario you had me starting to agree with you. I would definitely consider it cheating if my husband performed oral sex on another women, so I guess I have to agree that it is sex. Like I said earlier, I think we need a new definition of virgin and probably a new one for sex too.

Now I'm stuck, when you mentioned the wife/ husband scenario you had me starting to agree with you. I would definitely consider it cheating if my husband performed oral sex on another women, so I guess I have to agree that it is sex. Like I said earlier, I think we need a new definition of virgin and probably a new one for sex too.Yea that's where I'm going with it too. If my wife received oral sex from a man then she had sex, but I wouldn't consider it losing her virginity, that's still the old hymen/penetration test in my books.

See... there's where the problem is.

I wouldn't be mad at him for having "sex" with a virgin. I'd be mad at him for putting someone else between us, whether it's physically or emotionally--virgin or not.

Sex acts are different than sexual intercourse. Even you people trying to define it differently have to admit that.

You lose your virginity when you have sexual intercourse.

Otherwise--where's the line? Do you lose you virginity the first time you kiss someone? How about the first time you hold hands? The first time someone touches your naughty bits through your clothes?

The line is, traditionally, sexual intercourse.

I agree that people should be asking the OTHER questions, though. Finding out how much experience your partner has in general should be a good thing.

I think most people are just defining it as 'being sexual' rather than going into the 'virginity' idea that so out-dated. Being sexual means just that. Touching, licking, penetrating...

Maybe we can get the word virginity removed from the dictionary.

See....there's where the problem is.

I wouldn't be mad at him for having "sex" with a virgin. I'd be mad at him for putting someone else between us, whether it's physically or emotionally--virgin or not.

Sex acts are different than sexual intercourse. Even you people trying to define it differently have to admit that.

You lose your virginity when you have sexual intercourse.

Otherwise--where's the line? Do you lose you virginity the first time you kiss someone? How about the first time you hold hands? The first time someone touches your naughty bits through your clothes?

The line is, traditionally, sexual intercourse.

I agree that people should be asking the OTHER questions, though. Finding out how much experience your partner has in general should be a good thing.


Darnit, I agree with you too. Guess I'll be Switzerland, neutral.

See....there's where the problem is.

I wouldn't be mad at him for having "sex" with a virgin. I'd be mad at him for putting someone else between us, whether it's physically or emotionally--virgin or not.

Sex acts are different than sexual intercourse. Even you people trying to define it differently have to admit that.

You lose your virginity when you have sexual intercourse.

Otherwise--where's the line? Do you lose you virginity the first time you kiss someone? How about the first time you hold hands? The first time someone touches your naughty bits through your clothes?

The line is, traditionally, sexual intercourse.

I agree that people should be asking the OTHER questions, though. Finding out how much experience your partner has in general should be a good thing.

Guys can have sex with absolutely no intimacy or feelings for the woman... happens all the time, look what happens to so many women in high school and college when they get sweet talked by some jock with raging hormones with one thing on his mind.

Women for the most part view sex in a different light. Few women have sex with someone they have zero feelings or connection with.

And this whole argument about "is she a virgin or not" if you take a good look is all about people trying to have it both ways.

Sexually experienced virgin is an oxymoron. Sex is sex... and being a virgin is abstaining from that. And its something you can never go back to once its gone.

Again--sexual acts are different than sexual intercourse.

I want to know where you draw the line, then, Smoothy. Where is the line that says you can do up to X things with your boyfriend before you aren't a virgin anymore?

It's not people trying to have it both ways--it's people trying to define "virgin" as "pure".

Virgin only means you haven't had intercourse. It says NOTHING about whatever else you may or may not have done.

If that isn't what it means---where is the line? Where do you define how much experience makes you no longer a virgin?

Again--sexual acts are different than sexual intercourse.

I want to know where you draw the line, then, Smoothy. Where is the line that says you can do up to X things with your boyfriend before you aren't a virgin anymore?

It's not people trying to have it both ways--it's people trying to define "virgin" as "pure".

Virgin only means you haven't had intercourse. It says NOTHING about whatever else you may or may not have done.

If that isn't what it means---where is the line? Where do you define how much experience makes you no longer a virgin?


Who delineated the term at sexual intercourse and when. If you quote the Bible keep in mind its not a literal document but more of a metaphorical one.

We all know what its supposed to mean, and the problem is people that like I said are trying to have it both ways by parsing words.

There really is no stigma in most cultures to not be a virgin. SO if you want to have sex... don't claim to be a virgin. And its well within ones personal rights to abstain from, oral , anal or even vaginal intercourse. But don't be doing any of these and try to "CLAIM" to be a virgin.

Sex is sex. Plain and simple. If someone's genitals are involved for someone's pleasure its sex. If its not sex then there isn't a problem of your spouse doing this with others, after all , its not sex. See my point..

A virgin doesn't do stuff some married people won't do together.

I'd have a problem with my husband holding hands with someone else.

I'd also have a problem with him going out and doing the things teenagers do on dates (dinner, movies, roller skating, coffee, whatever) on a regular basis with another woman.

I'd have problems with him sending her letters talking about the way her hair shimmers.

To me, all of that is as much a "cheat" as having out and out sex.

So--"dating" would be losing your virginity, if we were defining is at something you wouldn't want your spouse doing with someone else.

If you want to define it as having to do with genitals, fine--but that's not the dictionary definition, and it's not the definition I'd go by.

I'd have a problem with my husband holding hands with someone else.

I'd also have a problem with him going out and doing the things teenagers do on dates (dinner, movies, roller skating, coffee, whatever) on a regular basis with another woman.

I'd have problems with him sending her letters talking about the way her hair shimmers.

To me, all of that is as much a "cheat" as having out and out sex.

So--"dating" would be losing your virginity, if we were defining is at something you wouldn't want your spouse doing with someone else.

If you want to define it as having to do with genitals, fine--but that's not the dictionary definition, and it's not the definition I'd go by.


Keep in mind what defines sex... will be used in divorce court as well to define sex.

Like I said... guys can easily have sex with a woman without all the touchy feeling dating things. Therefore theoretically you spouse could be engaging in acts that constitute sex...

Would you be happy in a spouse taking that definition and thumbing his nose at you in divorce court? Since if its not sex to plow away orally or anally its not extramarital sex and therefor not grounds for a divorce.

See where I'm going with this?

I see what you're saying---and what I'm saying is that I'd be more likely to TAKE him to divorce court for the OTHER stuff.

The problem isn't really the definition of virginity--it's the definition of "sex".

I agree that one shouldn't be able to slut around and do everything else BUT vaginal intercourse (and that goes for guys as well as girls!--both giving and receiving) and still call themselves "pure"---but they're not. They're calling themselves 'virgins'. Technically, they ARE virgins. They haven't had sexual intercourse.

That being said--the MAIN emphasis, historically, for wanting virginity was because men wanted to make sure that their heir was THEIR heir. The societies that historically don't place a lot of emphasis on virginity tend to be matriarchal societies--where HER kid is obviously HER kid. The secondary emphasis was to keep STDs out of a married relationship. Granted, it's a little harder to prove a guy is a virgin, really.

Really, what it comes down to is that virginity shouldn't be the emphasis we're teaching our kids. Virginity doesn't matter a damn, really. What we SHOULD be teaching is how to have safer sexual interactions, and how to be honest in their relationships--and to stop judging people by how many OTHER people they've had sexual interactions with.

I see what you're saying---and what I'm saying is that I'd be more likely to TAKE him to divorce court for the OTHER stuff.

The problem isn't really the definition of virginity--it's the definition of "sex".

I agree that one shouldn't be able to slut around and do everything else BUT vaginal intercourse (and that goes for guys as well as girls!--both giving and receiving) and still call themselves "pure"---but they're not. They're calling themselves 'virgins'. Technically, they ARE virgins. They haven't had sexual intercourse.

That being said--the MAIN emphasis, historically, for wanting virginity was because men wanted to make sure that their heir was THEIR heir. The societies that historically don't place a lot of emphasis on virginity tend to be matriarchal societies--where HER kid is obviously HER kid. The secondary emphasis was to keep STDs out of a married relationship. Granted, it's a little harder to prove a guy is a virgin, really.

Really, what it comes down to is that virginity shouldn't be the emphasis we're teaching our kids. Virginity doesn't matter a damn, really. What we SHOULD be teaching is how to have safer sexual interactions, and how to be honest in their relationships--and to stop judging people by how many OTHER people they've had sexual interactions with.

THey are quite interrelated.

Virgins by definition aren't virgins if they have had sex. Some have argued what constitutes sex.


Like I said... I guy can have a booty call without the hand holding, letter writing etc.

After all, what defines a prostitute? She gets paid for it. There are plenty of women that do it free. You can have sex without all the other trappings and its still sex.

If you are trying to excuse certain acts as not being sex so you can claim a virgin is still a virgin... then those acts can not by your definition be considered extramarital sex.

See... it really is a cut and dry issue... not one of circular logic.

I do feel the whole virgin thing is a bit outdated... but like anything else... if a person choses to remain one ( it's their right)... then abstain from sex... if you don't abstain then you aren't a virgin. After all like I said earlier. Sexually experienced virgin is an oxymoron.

Its like a vegan chowing down on a hamburger and arguing it doesn't count if they leave off the condiments.

Actually, it's NOT cut and dried.

But... we ARE going in circles.

Your definition of sex, and MY definition of sex are two different things. Your definition of cheating and mine are different. Your definition of virginity and mine are different.

THAT is why I'm saying we should talk about sexual experiences with potential partners, and (I can't believe I'm saying this) leave the whole question of virginity out of it.

I feel it really is cut and dry as long as you don't have double standards. If its not sex for them, then its not sex if it happened to be your spouse doing the same thing.

That's why I say one standard... that applies to everyone equally and legally as to what is and isn't sex.

What's wrong with that?

Personally I've respected women that were virgins... doesn't mean I didn't try my best to get them into bed. In my case it wasn't to score conquests... I never chased "Virgins". If they happened to be then they happened to be. But none of them ever claimed to be a virgin and then tried to have it both ways. The virgins I knew were virgins. They didn't perform fellatio, they didn't perform anal sex. Nor did any of them jam their hands in my pants.

I tried to get everyone I ever dated into bed... virgin or not. A handful the relationship never lasted that long... quite a few we were bumping uglies a few hours later.

Here's my non-double-standard: If I'm not a virgin then I don't expect them to be. Quite simple actually.

Here's my non-double-standard: If I'm not a virgin then I don't expect them to be. Quite simple actually.

No problem with that one... Its never been an important thing for me if she was a virgin or not. Hell back then I was happy to get what I got when I got it.

Wow this has turned into a real debate. Well again, I would like to mention that the one who asked this question is a guy (that's me). I think all of you are right, which makes things kind of hard. As I mentioned I have had oral sex (given and received) but never sexual intercourse. There is definitely no way that I can say that I was pure because I did engage in a sexual act. As to whether I am still a virgin, well, I'm still stuck in the middle, but I can guarantee that I won't be telling women I'm a virgin because at this point it seems a little misleading.

I also agree that we need to change the definition of the term. Remember, words and their definitions have a lot of power. Case in point, there are MANY teenagers in high school and even middle school who see oral sex as the same thing as kissing. They don't constitute it as sex and therefore are very willing to engage in it. That is why so many young folk are doing it today. So, if we change the definition it will definitely have a very powerful impact.

You could always use the Seinfeld standard:

Elaine: Hey, Jerry, when do you consider sex has taken place?
Jerry: I'd say when the nipple makes its first appearance.
:)

I really can't believe this debate still goes on. I see so many answers that include "I believe" and "its my opinion" and the like. But the problem is, its NOT something one believes nor is it something subject to opinion. It IS very cut and dried. A virgin is someone who has not experienced penetration of a vagina by a penis. End of story! There should not be and can't be any debate on the issue any more than one can debate gravity.

Yes the definitions of purity, chastity, sexual experience, etc are subject to debate. Those issue are more a matter of opinion. Morality is somewhat fluid and people have more liberal views then they did 40 or more years ago. Its almost expected these days that one has had some sexual experience.

And if someone wants to change the definition of virginity, then go to Websters, Funk and Wagnells, etc. and get the definition changed. But until that happens, what constitutes being a virgin is a matter of fact, not opinion.

Well put!

Another oxymoron... a virgin whore.

If it wasn't for Monica Lewinski I don't think we would even be having this discussion. It would have been clear to most people.


Dictionary:
virgin
(vûr'jĭn) pronunciation

n.

1. A person who has not experienced sexual intercourse.
2. A chaste or unmarried woman; a maiden.
3. An unmarried woman who has taken religious vows of chastity.
4. Virgin The Virgin Mary.
5. Zoology. A female insect or other arthropod that produces fertile eggs without copulating.

adj.

1. Of, relating to, or being a virgin; chaste.
2. Being in a pure or natural state; unsullied: virgin snow.
3. Unused, uncultivated, or unexplored: virgin territory.
4. Existing in native or raw form; not processed or refined.
5. Happening for the first time; initial.
6. Obtained directly from the first pressing: virgin olive oil.
7. Zoology. Producing fertile eggs without copulating.

[Middle English, from Old French virgine, from Latin virgō, virgin-.]

Thesaurus: virgin

Noun

A pure, uncorrupted person: angel, innocent, lamb. See clean/dirty, right/wrong.

Adjective

Morally beyond reproach, especially in sexual conduct: chaste, decent, modest, nice, pure, virginal, virtuous. See good/bad, restraint/unrestraint, sex/asexual.

Same here: virgin - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/virgin)

1 a: an unmarried woman devoted to religion bcapitalized : virgo (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/virgo)
To a: an absolutely chaste young woman b: an unmarried girl or woman
3capitalized : virgin mary (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/virgin+mary)
For a: a person who has not had sexual intercourse b: a person who is inexperienced in a usually specified sphere of activity <a virgin in politics>
5: a female animal that has never copulated
You're talking about meaning #2 while most of us are talking about meaning #4.

Just because you are sucking on it or stuffing it up your butt doesn't let you pretend you are a virgin just because you avoided the remaining hole.

.


That's an interesting mental imagine. Stuffing. Hmm.. :eek:

See, in 2008, virgin is not a useful term; it is just a way men classify women.. usually religious men with nothing better to do with their time.

Thoughful women reject all the virgin talk. It is meaningless now because young teen girls are little whores giving oral and much more, yet still having a hymen!! Virgins?

No hymen--*no proof* of never having penis vagina sex. NOT A VIRGIN
Hymen--proof of never having penis vagina sex. VIRGIN

That is the definition I go by for female humans. All the rest is antediluvian, judgemental religious commentary.

Same here: virgin - Definition from the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/virgin)

You're talking about meaning #2 while most of us are talking about meaning #4.outside of a few fairly backward cultures most people don't give a damn if a woman is a virgin or not. If you aren't just say it... don't pretend to be something you aren't.

I've never looked at an adult woman differently because she wasn't.

See, in 2008, virgin is not a useful term; it is just a way men classify women..usually religious men with nothing better to do with their time.

Thoughful women reject all the virgin talk. It is meaningless now because young teen girls are little whores giving oral, yet still having a hymen!!!

No hymen--*no proof* of never having penis vagina sex.
Hymen--proof of never having penis vagina sex.

That is the definition I go by for female women. All the rest is antediluvian, judgemental religious commentary.Hymens can stretch and not tear with some women even after repeated sex. So that is no proof in itself. Plus in certain middle eastern cultures young women sleep around then before getting married have their hymen "repaired" to fool the poor SOB on his wedding night (arranged marriage). Yes, I got this from a couple different middle eastern women I know.

Nitpicking.

Nitpicking.
I agree... if you love the woman who cares if she's a vigin or not. Particularly once you are in your 20's. Personally I'd be pissed if she lied about being one but I wouldn't care if she wasn't if she was honest. Most of my girlfriends weren't.

Sure way to get a quick divorce? Give the new groom of a "virgin" bride syphilis , gonorrhea, or aids she contracted while not having sex with other guys before the marriage.

LOL... you lost me when you talked about the *spandex hymens*!

Have a good one!


Choux

I really can't believe this debate still goes on. I see so many answers that include "I believe" and "its my opinion" and the like. But the problem is, its NOT something one believes nor is it something subject to opinion. It IS very cut and dried. A virgin is someone who has not experienced penetration of a vagina by a penis. End of story! There should not be and can't be any debate on the issue any more than one can debate gravity.

Yes the definitions of purity, chastity, sexual experience, etc are subject to debate. Those issue are more a matter of personal opinion. Morality is somewhat fluid and people have more liberal views then they did 40 or more years ago. Its almost expected these days that one has had some sexual experience.

And if someone wants to change the definition of virginity, then go to Websters, Funk and Wagnells, etc. and get the definition changed. But until that happens, what constitutes being a virgin is a matter of fact, not opinion.


ELLO - I think some of you may have missed this post. Well worth the read.

eLLO - I think some of you may have missed this post. Well worth the read.

Dictionary:
virgin
(v&#251;r'jĭn) pronunciation

n.

1. A person who has not experienced sexual intercourse.
2. A chaste or unmarried woman; a maiden.
3. An unmarried woman who has taken religious vows of chastity.
4. Virgin The Virgin Mary.
5. Zoology. A female insect or other arthropod that produces fertile eggs without copulating.

adj.

1. Of, relating to, or being a virgin; chaste.
2. Being in a pure or natural state; unsullied: virgin snow.
3. Unused, uncultivated, or unexplored: virgin territory.
4. Existing in native or raw form; not processed or refined.
5. Happening for the first time; initial.
6. Obtained directly from the first pressing: virgin olive oil.
7. Zoology. Producing fertile eggs without copulating.

[Middle English, from Old French virgine, from Latin virgō, virgin-.]

Thesaurus: virgin

Noun

A pure, uncorrupted person: angel, innocent, lamb. See clean/dirty, right/wrong.

Adjective

Morally beyond reproach, especially in sexual conduct: chaste, decent, modest, nice, pure, virginal, virtuous. See good/bad, restraint/unrestraint, sex/asexual.



I know the Pollitically correct crowd likes to twist things within an inch of their life so they can have them both ways... which is wrong. This is the full definition of the word.


If you want to be a blow job queen, have at it, but don't pretend to be a virgin. Its not like most people really care if you are or not. But it is what it is.

Dictionary:
virgin
(vûr'jĭn) pronunciation

n.

1. A person who has not experienced sexual intercourse.
2. A chaste or unmarried woman; a maiden.
3. An unmarried woman who has taken religious vows of chastity.
4. Virgin The Virgin Mary.
5. Zoology. A female insect or other arthropod that produces fertile eggs without copulating.

adj.

1. Of, relating to, or being a virgin; chaste.
2. Being in a pure or natural state; unsullied: virgin snow.
3. Unused, uncultivated, or unexplored: virgin territory.
4. Existing in native or raw form; not processed or refined.
5. Happening for the first time; initial.
6. Obtained directly from the first pressing: virgin olive oil.
7. Zoology. Producing fertile eggs without copulating.

[Middle English, from Old French virgine, from Latin virgō, virgin-.]

Thesaurus: virgin

noun

A pure, uncorrupted person: angel, innocent, lamb. See clean/dirty, right/wrong.

adjective

Morally beyond reproach, especially in sexual conduct: chaste, decent, modest, nice, pure, virginal, virtuous. See good/bad, restraint/unrestraint, sex/asexual.



I know the Pollitically correct crowd likes to twist things within an inch of their life so they can have them both ways......which is wrong. This is the full definition of the word.


See bolded word above--in the number one definition (meaning it's the most common definition).

While a thesaurus will help us understand a word by given similar words, those words do not necessarily mean the same thing.

Dictionary:
virgin
(vûr'jĭn) pronunciation

n.

1. A person who has not experienced sexual intercourse.
2. A chaste or unmarried woman; a maiden.
3. An unmarried woman who has taken religious vows of chastity.
4. Virgin The Virgin Mary.
5. Zoology. A female insect or other arthropod that produces fertile eggs without copulating.

adj.

1. Of, relating to, or being a virgin; chaste.
2. Being in a pure or natural state; unsullied: virgin snow.
3. Unused, uncultivated, or unexplored: virgin territory.
4. Existing in native or raw form; not processed or refined.
5. Happening for the first time; initial.
6. Obtained directly from the first pressing: virgin olive oil.
7. Zoology. Producing fertile eggs without copulating.

[Middle English, from Old French virgine, from Latin virgō, virgin-.]

Thesaurus: virgin

noun

A pure, uncorrupted person: angel, innocent, lamb. See clean/dirty, right/wrong.

adjective

Morally beyond reproach, especially in sexual conduct: chaste, decent, modest, nice, pure, virginal, virtuous. See good/bad, restraint/unrestraint, sex/asexual.



I know the Pollitically correct crowd likes to twist things within an inch of their life so they can have them both ways......which is wrong. This is the full definition of the word.


Gotcha... in that context... I would agree with what you are saying. But not so much with what the OP was asking. I agreed with the answer, if he had been asked an accurate response would have been, Yes, I am a virgin, but I have fooled around.

In a spirtual/religous context - No, he would not be pure or "virginal".

Dictionary:
virgin
(v&#251;r'jĭn) pronunciation

n.

1. A person who has not experienced sexual intercourse.
2. A chaste or unmarried woman; a maiden.
3. An unmarried woman who has taken religious vows of chastity.
4. Virgin The Virgin Mary.
5. Zoology. A female insect or other arthropod that produces fertile eggs without copulating.

adj.

1. Of, relating to, or being a virgin; chaste.
2. Being in a pure or natural state; unsullied: virgin snow.
3. Unused, uncultivated, or unexplored: virgin territory.
4. Existing in native or raw form; not processed or refined.
5. Happening for the first time; initial.
6. Obtained directly from the first pressing: virgin olive oil.
7. Zoology. Producing fertile eggs without copulating.

[Middle English, from Old French virgine, from Latin virgō, virgin-.]

Thesaurus: virgin

noun

A pure, uncorrupted person: angel, innocent, lamb. See clean/dirty, right/wrong.

adjective

Morally beyond reproach, especially in sexual conduct: chaste, decent, modest, nice, pure, virginal, virtuous. See good/bad, restraint/unrestraint, sex/asexual.



I know the Pollitically correct crowd likes to twist things within an inch of their life so they can have them both ways......which is wrong. This is the full definition of the word.


If you want to be a blow job queen, have at it, but don't pretend to be a virgin. Its not like most people really care if you are or not. But it is what it is.


Allheart see those other highlighted words...

Virgins don't have sexual experience many long time married women don't have. And that includes Oral and Anal sex. Parsing words like Bill Clinton did when he committed perjury under oath saying he did not have sex with that woman even in light of the speckled blue dress proved otherwise makes any difference.

I agreed with the answer, if he had been asked an accurate response would have been, Yes, I am a virgin, but I have fooled around.

In a spirtual/religous context - No, he would not be pure or "virginal".Bingo!

Bingo!


That's exactly the same as saying you are "a little bit" pregnant. You either are or you aren't.

This is a terrible question and I hesitate to ask it.

First, Smoothy - your points I do understand and get. When reading your words, I picutre a bunch of nuns sitting around the table drinking tea (welcome to my mind)

Anyway - I do get what you are saying. But for this young man's question I don't think it applies.

But let's move it further - and again, hate to even bring this up, but... someone who is molested, but no intercourse, are you saying they are not a virgin now?

Believe me smoothly, I hold hard and fast rules about certain things, this being one of them and I hope this wonderful young man stays just who he is, because he sounds like a treasure. So for young people today, in this area I do not give free passes.

In the context this young man was asking - I still feel his answer should be, yes I am a virgin, but have fooled around.

Now I tried in my mind to flip it around if it were a girl asking, and I come up with the same answer.

( I did that as I hold girls to a stricter set of rules, I'm not right I know, but I do).

Sorry to bring up the terrible question, but it popped in my head.

If someone wants to remain a virgin its simple... don't have any form of sex with another.

If being a virgin really mattered to them they would abide by that.

If fooling around means that much to them then just why in the hell do they want to insist on being called a virgin when they aren't.

As many have said... there really is no stigma to not being a virgin.

So why lie about it. Its no different than a married man or woman fooling around with others and claiming they aren't having sex or feelings because its just "oral" or Anal" and vaginal penetration wasn't occurring so it doesn't count.

Its all Politically correct B.S.. and not different than Michael Jackson wanting to be white.

He can have all the plastic surgery money can buy....he can bleach his skin until he resembles an albino..... but in the end no matter what he claims...he's still a black man.

Just because a mass murderer believes he was innocent.....he's still a mass murderer and will be till the day he dies. You can't take it back once its done.


And no...a rape victim or a molestation victim isn't a virgin. Thats the way it is. You are only innocent once.


And to the OP ....sex is sex.....oral, anal vaginal or masturbating another. Do it and you aren't a virgin. If being a virgin was important to you then abstain. You can't have it both ways.

Like pregnancy you can't have it both ways....there is no "a little bit pregnant" You either are, or you aren't.

I'm not being PC - I just think this young man is a virgin who has had sexual experiences.
When your young... I think you find yourself in certain situations and stop before it gets too far and you loose your virginity.

I think we just see it differently.

You believe... no sexual contact at all = Virgin

Any sexual contact = not virgin.

I can understand that but I still feel this young man is still a virgin and I hope he meets a very nice young lady :)

are you still considered a virgin?Hello confused:

Considered to be a virgin by whom?? Your lover??

Look, I'm a loophole kind of guy. I LOVE loopholes. However, when you use loopholes to fool your lover, it's not quite the same as using loopholes to fool the government.

Is that who this technical discussion is aimed at? Your lover? If you don't want him to know you've indulged in sex, lie to him. The only difference between lying to him and using this loophole, is that you'll feel better.

excon

I think the young man's goal when writing this, is he wants to be honest and tell the truth, but he didn't know what the answer was.

He sounds like a sweetheart :)

I think the young man's goal when writing this, is he wants to be honest and tell the truth, but he didn't know what the answer was.

He sounds like a sweetheart :)
All he has to do is be honest... stretch the truth or tell a lie it will reflect bad upon you and eventually catch you in the lie.

People get more upset about being lied to than being told the truth. Besides... you never have to remember what story the truth was... but you will eventually forget what story you used with the lie was.

And no...a rape victim or a molestation victim isn't a virgin. Thats the way it is. You are only innocent once.

And to the OP ....sex is sex.....oral, anal vaginal or masturbating another. Do it and you aren't a virgin. If being a virgin was important to you then abstain. You can't have it both ways.


You can believe this all you want. But it doesn't alter the hard facts of what defines a virgin. The fact is you are trying to put a moral definition on a physical fact.

You want the anyone who engages in sexual activity on any level to be defined as having lost their virginity. But then you claim a rape or molestation victim has also lost their innocence. Sorry, but that doesn't meet the facts.

You have to separate the moral aspects of engaging in sexual activity with the physical fact of virginity. As much as you may not want to do it, it has to be done.

Guess what?

It's not a problem if he says what Allheart said: I'm a virgin with some sexual experience

This is getting to be a circular argument, and I'd like to hear back from the OP at this point to hear whether any of this has clarified ANYTHING for him, or whether he's just more confused now--because I certainly am.

All he has to do is be honest.....stretch the truth or tell a lie it will reflect bad upon you and eventually catch you in the lie.

People get more upset about being lied to than being told the truth. Besides....you never have to remember what story the truth was....but you will eventually forget what story you used with the lie was.


I am one of those people. I beg those close to me... PLEASE always tell me the truth. You are so right. He had no problem being a virgin, not being a virgin, he just wasn't sure. And then we all took over :D Poor kid :).

He could say, I have not had intercourse, but I have had sexual experiences.

See, because, if this very nice young lady that he will meet, asks him, Are you a virgin?
And he says "No". Guess what she is thinking??

So, when he answers, he should then be very clear and not to dance around the truth, but to make sure she understands what that truth is.

You can believe this all you want. But it doesn't alter the hard facts of what defines a virgin. The fact is you are trying to put a moral definition on a physical fact.

You want the anyone who engages in sexual activity on any level to be defined as having lost their virginity. But then you claim a rape or molestation victim has also lost their innocence. Sorry, but that doesn't meet the facts.

You have to separate the moral aspects of engaging in sexual activity with the physical fact of virginity. As much as you may not want to do it, it has to be done.
Scott think about what you just said... a virgin girl is a rape victim... she gets pregnant, Has the baby... so are you going to argue she is equal to the Virgin Mary? Because you would be arguing here is a virgin... and she is a mother.


You are a virgin only once. When its gone, its gone. You don't get it back. And that's the unfortunate truth about rape and molestation. They can never get back what was taken from them. And pretending doesn't make it so.

I am one of those people. I beg those close to me...PLEASE always tell me the truth. You are so right. He had no problem being a virgin, not being a virgin, he just wasn't sure. And then we all took over :D Poor kid :).

He could say, I have not had intercourse, but I have had sexual experiences.

See, because, if this very nice young lady that he will meet, asks him, Are you a virgin?
And he says "No". Guess what she is thinking?????

So, when he answers, he should then be very clear and not to dance around the truth, but to make sure she understands what that truth is.
I agree with that. Most people won't care about virginity... particularly a guy being a virgin... but if he lies about it, that's a far worse thing.

Yes, anytype of lying is never good, and you are right, not good for a young man or lady to lie about something like this.

This young man, from what I read, that was his fear... he did not want to be untruthful.

And Synn is right, where is our Mr. Confused25 - Can you help us adults out :)

Scott think about what you just said.....a virgin girl is a rape victim....she gets pregnant, Has the baby.....so are you going to argue she is equal to the Virgin Mary? Because you would be arguing here is a virgin...and she is a mother.



No, that's not what I'm saying. Its what YOU are saying. I've said all along that penile penetration of the vagina constitutes loss of virginity. Whether it was voluntary or not.

But you want loss of virginity to occur when a person voluntarily engages in ANY sexual activity. Ergo, since a victim did not voluntarily engage in any sex act, then, by that logic, they shouldn't lose their virginity. You are trying to have your cake and eat it too. You want someone to lose their virginity whether they voluntraily or involuntarily engage in ANY level of sexual activity. I'm saying if you extend loss of virginity to any level of sexual activity, you have, in effect made the definition of virginity totally meaningless.

The other point is its NOT your decision. Again, a virgin is defined as not having had penile penetration. That is a factual definition and no matter how you want to extend it, it's the accepted medical definition.

No, that's not what I'm saying. Its what YOU are saying. I've said all along that penile penetration of the vagina constitutes loss of virginity. Whether it was voluntary or not.

But you want loss of virginity to occur when a person voluntarily engages in ANY sexual activity. Ergo, since a victim did not voluntarily engage in any sex act, then, by that logic, they shouldn't lose their virginity. You are trying to have your cake and eat it too. You want someone to lose their virginity whether they voluntraily or involuntarily engage in ANY level of sexual activity. I'm saying if you extend loss of virginity to any level of sexual activity, you have, in effect made the definition of virginity totally meaningless.

The other point is its NOT your decision. Again, a virgin is defined as not having had penile penetration. That is a factual definition and no matter how you want to extend it, its the accepted medical definition.Virginity was defined by the Church long before most people were literate. Sex is sex. Anything with the Clintonian definition of sex diminishes the meaning and value of virginity...


Under your definition of virgin, you can literally have a woman with a huge rap sheet and prison time for prostitution that might fit your fairly narrow interpretation of virgin. As long as she was providing oral or anal sex as long as she kept it out of that hole then she is a virgin. Therefore how does that give the meaning of virgin more value than my meaning of virgin where a virgin remains pure and untouched by sex.

I would argue my more strict interpretation gives it more significance and thus more meaning.

Anything this simple and clear is diminished when someone wants to find ways to circumvent the intent and spirit of something. Be it criminal law or tax law. Or even a topic of morality.

As an example, what value does a tax law become after it gets gutted by numerous loopholes and exemptions that would apply to 90% of the people.


The actual law is not strengthened by such an act, and in fact ends up greatly diminished.


Like I said... a virgin girl that was raped , impregnated and had a child... is NOT a virgin... pure and simple. I might be sympathetic to her plight, I might feel bad for her. But the fact remains she is not a virgin.

Sex is sex... voluntary or at gunpoint. Have any form of it and you aren't a virgin any longer.

Darnit guys, I now think that smoothy might be right. Everyone has seen the definition of Virgin that has been posted, the one most of us are abiding by is the sexual intercourse section, well, here is the definition of sexual intercourse.

Sexual intercourse
n.
1. Coitus between humans.
2. Sexual union between humans involving genital contact other than vaginal penetration by the penis.

I think this might put and end to the debate.

So, if the OP were to say -

I've had sexual relations but not sexual intercourse. That would be accurate.

When I always thought of a virgin, I always thougth - one never having sex.

And sex being the whole act.

Never just thought about the opening act ( so to speak )

Alt - I do see what you have found and I think it's a matter of our minds catching up to
A written definition versus a long held conceived idea.

(put it this way - it's times like these I'm glad I have a 4 foot child and not a 2 feeter :)

Bless all of you parents.

Allheart- I thank my lucky stars everyday that my children are still young. I hope that when it comes time for them to step out into a sexual world I will have done my job well enough that they will respect their bodies and the bodies of others. So much of the information that children get is inaccurate and down right dangerous. My twenty year old niece actually believed that she couldn't get pregnant the first time she had sex. She doesn't think that she can get aids from oral or anal sex. The misinformation that our children are receiving is mind boggling.

I posted the definitions because I wanted everyone to have the information before debating it any further. We all have a right to feel how we feel about this topic, it's up to all of us to come up with a definition that fits our lifestyle, one that we want to pass on to our children. I hope I'm making sense.

Altenweg out.

Allheart- I thank my lucky stars everyday that my children are still young. I hope that when it comes time for them to step out into a sexual world I will have done my job well enough that they will respect their bodies and the bodies of others. So much of the information that children get is inaccurate and down right dangerous. My twenty year old niece actually believed that she couldn't get pregnant the first time she had sex. She doesn't think that she can get aids from oral or anal sex. The misinformation that our children are receiving is mind boggling.

I posted the definitions because I wanted everyone to have the information before debating it any further. We all have a right to feel how we feel about this topic, it's up to all of us to come up with a definition that fits our lifestyle, one that we want to pass on to our children. I hope I'm making sense.

Altenweg out.


You made perfect sense and so right in posting what you found.

And your children have a wondeful foundation... thanks to you.

You made perfect sense and so right in posting what you found.

And your children have a wondeful foundation...thanks to you.

Thank you for saying that, I'm definitely doing the best that I can for them, I love them so much and I hope that they realize that everything I tell them is meant to help them grow and stay safe. There are so many scarry things in the world today, it baffles the mind. The best a person can do is talk to their kids, play with their kids, develop an honest, open relationship with their kids so that when the crap hits the fan they'll come to you. I worry everyday that they will be influenced by someone other than me and their dad, so far so good but they're only 5 and 9, when they become teenagers I might loose my mind.:)

I have had some small discussions with my 9 year old about sex, I give him the reins, if he asks I tell, but to be honest at this time I leave allot of stuff out, there are some things that a 9 year old doesn't need to know until he's much older. He's still very much in the Ewwww, that's gross stage.

Take care everyone.

Thank you for saying that, I'm definitely doing the best that I can for them, I love them so much and I hope that they realize that everything I tell them is meant to help them grow and stay safe. There are so many scarry things in the world today, it baffles the mind. The best a person can do is talk to their kids, play with their kids, develop an honest, open relationship with their kids so that when the crap hits the fan they'll come to you. I worry everyday that they will be influenced by someone other than me and their dad, so far so good but they're only 5 and 9, when they become teenagers I might loose my mind.:)

I have had some small discussions with my 9 year old about sex, I give him the reins, if he asks I tell, but to be honest at this time I leave allot of stuff out, there are some things that a 9 year old doesn't need to know until he's much older. He's still very much in the Ewwww, that's gross stage.

Take care everyone.

LOL and you keep encouragning that ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww that's gross :) Too funny.

Children should be allowed to be children for as long as possible. My Mom and Dad had 5 children all together, (twin girls), so for the longest time, I thought they only did "it" 4 times... ewwwwwww gross :).

Your children will do wonderful... you teach that out of love... can't beat that!

My Mom's appendix ruptured when she was 18 and messed up her Fallopian tubes. She had minor surgery every month for 8 years in order to have me. They felt the need to tell me that they tried everyday, sometimes 2 or 3 times a day in order to have me. Too much information, LaLaLaLa, I can't hear you. We all like to believe our parents are sexless.

Were you one of the twin girls?

Okay, now that we've all agreed to disagree on this whole mess, and it's getting off topic...

I'm closing this thread.

It will reopen ONLY with a PM to me from the OP.

Hello Synnen!

I hope you're doing great! Well I'm writing because I was hoping you could re-open my topic for just another day or two. Some people expressed wanting to hear what I thought about the whole debate and I would like to share that information. More importantly I want to let people know why I asked that question because some may have the wrong idea about me. Thanks!

-Confused25

Reopened per PM from OP

Hello Everyone,

Well I asked Synnen to reopen the topic for another day or two because I wanted to share my final thoughts and the reason for me asking this particular question.

Remember, I am a male and 22 years old. With that said here we go. It was just a couple months ago when I had met the most wonderful girl to have ever walked into my life. She was amazing, we clicked very well, and ended up getting into a relationship. We were very passionate about one another and I had decided that I wanted her to be my first. I had finally met someone I wanted to lose my virginity to. She was so great and I was very happy.

Well about a month into our relationship I had my first sexual experience (oral sex) and it was great, which was made better because I had so much passion for her. We had oral sex a couple more times in the following weeks and I was sure that we would eventually have sexual intercourse when we were both ready. Unfortunately the relationship fell apart (the break up was bad and I am still trying to deal with it), which we really came at a shock because she was supposed to be the "one." Also, when I say the "one" I mean the one in every way, including sex.

So the relationship is over and with regards to my sexual experiences I felt that I was left hanging in midair. I had waited so long to find that special person to experience sexual intimacy with but it felt like I had only gotten half of that experience. It's like half of you is through the door, but you still have not fully walked through that door. Do you understand what I'm saying?

That is why I asked this initial question. I felt that I had only experienced half of what sex with someone special is, but not the whole thing. So I was unsure if I was still a virgin. Fortunately, after reading everyone's posts, I've decided that I am a virgin but that I'm also not a virgin :)

In my opinion I'm simply hanging in mid-air. So if I'm ever asked whether I am a virgin I will respond with "Well, this may sound weird, but I'm somewhere in the middle. I've had oral sex with one other person but I've never had sexual intercourse. I'm not sure how you feel or think about that, but that's the best and most comfortable way for me to describe it."

So there it is. I just wanted to explain myself because I got the idea that some people on this board had the impression that I was an oral sex king and that I was trying to manipulate the word virgin in order to trick people. I hope I cleared things up a bit.

Lastly, thanks for all the advice! I really appreciate it. You all are great!

Confused -

If you are ever asked what you are - Be truthful and tell them,

You are one of the finest young men, have a heart of gold, and will bring great joy and true love to anyone's life that you become a part of. That's what you are :)

You make me smile and give me hope in tomorrow.

Please never change the person you are. Continue to be you. I hope your heart isn't hurting anymore and if it is... you will heal, and that is a promise.

To the very lucky girl out there who is just waiting for Confused25 to enter her life,. You better be good to him!! Or Auntie Allheart will need to have a word with you!

You make my heart happy!

Stay true to you.

Allheart

If you are seeing a guy and want to be with a special woman later my guess is she may be more angry at you for being with a same sex relationship than if you qualify as a virgin or not. Many girls would rather you been with other girls than A guy. Many girls think and feel this way so don't dismiss or taboo my reply since you want to know what a special lady might consider.

If you are seeing a guy and want to be with a special woman later my guess is she may be more angry at you for being with a same sex relationship than if you qualify as a virgin or not. Many girls would rather you been with other girls than A guy. Many girls think and feel this way so don't dismiss or taboo my reply since you want to know what a special lady might consider.

I'm confused here... where did the seeing a guy thing come from?

NOhelp4U: Don't worry I'm completely heterosexual and will never consider a relationship with another male. Nothing against homosexuality, but its simply not my thing.

Oh sorry I misread I thought you said to Choux I am seeing a 22 year old male. Dysklexia set in you said See I am a 22 year old male

Well it is good to wait for that special lady as much as you can and if she is that special she will love you for where you and her are in your relationship and not digging up your past. Most girls now have a past themselves and it is petty to nit pick each others past if you really care about each other.

Thanks for sharing a bit of your life here with us, Confused25. In my dating life, I've found it doesn't matter to me if a man has had sex with another woman or even a couple of them, BUT if it's more than 50, I'd be worried he could be a sex addict and unable to settle down with just one woman. I've heard people with multiple partners say they began to feel dirty all the time. Enjoy life, but save something for that real special one that's waiting for you. HuGS

So if I'm ever asked whether I am a virgin I will respond with "Well, this may sound weird, but I'm somewhere in the middle. I've had oral sex with one other person but I've never had sexual intercourse. I'm not sure how you feel or think about that, but that's the best and most comfortable way for me to describe it."



I would put it this way:

Yes I'm a virgin, but I'm not chaste, I have been intimate with a previous partner.

You do not and should not go into specifics unless asked. If asked how you can consider yourself a virgin, state that you have not engaged in sexual intercourse, just foreplay.

Scott- Great answer!

I think that as long as you are honest about your past experiences you'll be fine. I know that you will find that special someone, and oh what a lucky girl she is. Give yourself some time to heal after the breakup, good things come along when you least expect it. Good luck to you and have fun, you're only young once.

Quick question. I have seen a lot of these threads where people are confused about what constitutes virginity. I was just wondering what most of you thought about oral sex. If you have had oral sex but not intercourse, are you still considered a virgin?
Ah, I remember when I lost my virginity.. . And realized that the word doesn't really mean anything. A little disappointing that.

I look at it this way, Is it sex or not?


Here is a good way to look at it. Assume the party involved is your husband or wife, or if you aren't married your boyfriend or girlfriend.

If its not sex you would have no problem with them doing it with others... and if by those guidelines its sex, then how can you have sex and still claim to be a virgin.

Some people will argue its not sex if they do it... but let their partner do it and they freak out.

Losing your virginity happens only once. Wouldn't it be nice if its something you can fondly remember, rather than something you wish to forget?

Here is a good way to look at it. Assume the party involved is your husband or wife, or if you aren't married your boyfriend or girlfriend.


Sorry but that analogy doesn't work. The question is not whether the person was sexually intimate, the question is whether there was penile pentration.

Sorry but that analogy doesn't work. The question is not whether the person was sexually intimate, the question is whether there was penile pentration.

That's only an issue for those that wish to parse words.

The definition of both virgin and the word coitus was defined earlier in the thread. Its pretty clear to most of us that respect the meaning and intent of the term. Those who wish to have it both ways will never agree. And trying to make them is an exercise in futility.

That analogy is used because people who commonly state a belief change their minds when others they are close to want to use the same justification.

How many guys that feel its fine to fool around would freak out if their wives did it to them as an example.

Yes it is.

Hello:

You guys are right on. If this were a court case, she's a virgin - hands down.

If she were my intended, however, it wouldn't matter which orifice her previous boyfriend invaded. The point in THAT case, would be that he's been there.

I think I said it earlier. I love to use loopholes - especially when I'm using them against an adversary, such as the government. However, I don't use them in my personal life, and would feel lied to if one were used on me.

excon

You guys are right on. If this were a court case, she's a virgin - hands down.

If she were my intended, however, it wouldn't matter which orifice her previous boyfriend invaded. The point in THAT case, would be that he's been there.


Bingo!!

What, exactly, happened that this thread got revived AGAIN?

Going by Smoothy's definition--if you wouldn't want your spouse doing it with someone else--I lost my virginity in 2nd grade, when Chris stole a kiss from me in the coat room.

The words "virgin" and "pure" are synonyms. "Synonym" means "alike". It doesn't mean "Same".

So basically--if you're THAT worried about it, start asking if she's PURE, and forget about the virginity thing entirely.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm starting to think about agreeing with Choux, that it's an archaic thing that men care about more than women, since it's the men (Sorry Scott, not intending to include you in this) that are freaking out if "virgin" doesn't mean "pure" to their significant other, but rather means that they've done foreplay but not actual intercourse.

I don't know what revived it either. We have posts on 2/24 then 3/1 then today.

Frankly, in today's climate I would never expect an adult partner to be pure, nor would I care. I might have a slightly greater expectation of virginity, but I would care about that only because it shows how smart she was, not moral.

Id rather take panties off than get them in a bunch over "virgin" or "not a virgin".

Virginity is so important to me that I only cook with Virgin Olive Oil, and only wear Virgin wool in the winter. I do eat a thrice-baked potato though. Should I see a shrink about this?

What, exactly, happened that this thread got revived AGAIN?

Going by Smoothy's definition--if you wouldn't want your spouse doing it with someone else--I lost my virginity in 2nd grade, when Chris stole a kiss from me in the coat room.

The words "virgin" and "pure" are synonyms. "Synonym" means "alike". It doesn't mean "Same".

So basically--if you're THAT worried about it, start asking if she's PURE, and forget about the virginity thing entirely.

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm starting to think about agreeing with Choux, that it's an archaic thing that men care about more than women, since it's the men (Sorry Scott, not intending to include you in this) that are freaking out if "virgin" doesn't mean "pure" to their significant other, but rather means that they've done foreplay but not actual intercourse.
A kiss isn't sex... sex involves one parties genitals. Now it genitals and a mouth are involved then it becomes sex.

A kiss isn't sex....sex involves one parties genitals. Now it genitals and a mouth are involved then it becomes sex.

Depends on who you ask. Some kisses can be very sexual.

But sex does NOT necessarily mean loss of virginity.

ungh...

intent goes a long way.

a guy paid to massage my wife head to toe to help her with stress... no problem. But if she's shacking with antonio and his hands are all over her... it's a different story.

likewise... kissing is an act of familiarity in some settings, an act of love without sexual connotations in some, and a sexual act in others.

so.. kissing isn't intercourse. Neither is oral. But kissing for sexual stimulation is a part of sexual play. I consider the exchange of bodily fluids to be one of the most intimate, sexual acts possible.

is it on the same scale as intercourse? no.

but the context means something.

aw crap... there's the loophole.. "she didnt mean anything to me"... =P

**virginity is tied to intercourse. Don't complicate it**

You can't have sex without genitals being involved.

I will give you the point on some kisses being quite sexual however. As that can be quite true. Between the right people under the right circumstances it can be a very intense experience. Damn close to the act itself. Its not true all that often but when it is you never forget it.

OK...

So a man biting my wife's nipples... what is that?

Answer: a stain on the wall where I threw him.

I knew a guy that I could bring to orgasm by licking and playing with his ears.

That's pretty dang sexual.

I've also been brought pretty darn close to orgasm (read: it took ONE touch with a finger after) by kissing.

Look, we get your point, Smoothy. The thing is, virginity has to do with intercourse, plain and simple. Yes, you can get pretty experienced without crossing that line--but you're a virgin until you do.

I knew a guy that I could bring to orgasm by licking and playing with his ears.

That's pretty dang sexual.

I've also been brought pretty darn close to orgasm (read: it took ONE touch with a finger after) by kissing.

Look, we get your point, Smoothy. The thing is, virginity has to do with intercourse, plain and simple. Yes, you can get pretty experienced without crossing that line--but you're a virgin until you do.
Well you get close to the point I'm making...

And if you are playing around enough for someone to get off and you claim to be a virgin then its false advertising.

Personally I never cared much if she was a virgin or not... but I would be upset if she had to lie about it.

If you have had oral sex but not intercourse, are you still considered a virgin?

Part of you is, and part of you isn't.

and if you are playing around enough for someone to get off and you claim to be a virgin then its false advertising.


That would depend on context. As I recall, I suggested the OP could say that while he has been intimate with previous partners he remains a virgin. That's NOT false advertising.

That would depend on context. As I recall, I suggested the OP could say that while he has been intimate with previous partners he remains a virgin. That's NOT false advertising.
True, if both people kept their pants on and their hands out of the others pants then yes... as long as neither were playing around with the others genitalia. I will accept the fact simple mouth to mouth kissing isn't in itself a sexual act even if certain select people might get more of a reaction than the average person.

But like I contend... if one party was getting blow jobs or anal sex... or giving either depending on their gender then they would not be virgins and it would be false advertizing.


Sort of like the Honor Role student that gets caught cheating on exams...

This is going in circles again.

I would contend that someone with the experience you describe is not PURE, but still a VIRGIN.

The words are NOT exactly the same.

This is going in circles again.

I would contend that someone with the experience you describe is not PURE, but still a VIRGIN.

The words are NOT exactly the same.


Refer back a few pages to the definition of virgin, then also to the definition of Coitus.

Those are pretty clear by definition. Sexually experienced virgin IS an oxymoron.

So is a sophomore :P

That doesn't mean they don't exist.

Seriously--you're nitpicking. I still liken it to someone who has finished ALL of their credits for a degree--and hasn't taken the final test. Until they take that final test to graduate, they don't have a degree, no matter HOW much they know on the subject.

Synnen is right... round and round we go :):)

The GREAT thing about all of this is that Confused25 is an incredible young man and just wanted to be honest and I don't think he concerns himself so much with what label he should call himself or at least I hope he doesn't.

He hasn't popped into much to see Auntie Allheart :(, but I am hoping he's off being the wonderful young man that I feel him to be. :)

Unless you live in a country with traditional arranged marriages there really is no stigma to not being a virgin.

If you have any form of sex then you are not a virgin, and if you claim to be then you are a liar as well.

What wrong with being honest or has telling lies become that ingrained with so many people they no longer see the problem with doing it. A relationship based on a lie is like a house built on a poor foundation... it just will never be as strong as one based on truth, or a house built on a proper strong foundation.

If you have any form of sex then you are not a virgin, and if you claim to be then you are a liar as well.


Now this is getting beyond ridiculous. I agree with you about honesty and I agree that the stigma of losing one's virginity has waned greatly in the last few decades. However, you are so off base in calling people a liar that its shameful. Just because you have a different view of how virginity should be defined then the vast majority of the rest of the world, does not give you the right to make false accusations.

If someone has not experienced penile penetration of the vagina and they want to call themselves a virgin, then they have that right. End of story. Any further arguments against that will be removed.

Smoothy -

I want to make it perfectly clear - that this young man asked is he or isn't he a virign. He was unsure, he did not know that is why he asked the question to ensure to tell the truth.

I just wanted to make that perfectly clear. So you are more debating on the definition of virgin, not necessarily anything that has to do specifically with this young man.

Who by the way, is a wonderful young man. Don't believe I have mentioned that :):), but he truly is.

Okay, carry on. I got that off my chest.

I have read the "report" of the post as done by smoothy, and while we could over in religion or a discussion forum discuss the way society has taken lightly varoius forms of sexual experiences. But basically if there I no penile penetration then by all standards that I am aware of in today's society.

Scotts is correct and not expressing a opinion, he is stating basic commonly accepted facts. You may not agree with this, and should be OK to express as long as it is not in a hurtful way your idea of what a virgin is.