My heart is shattered. My 30 year old son said he never wants to see or talk to me again. He has yelled and cursed at me to the top of his lungs telling me how horrible I am as a mother and a grandmother. He was always emotional as a child. In the last five years he has been horrible to me. When I asked why, he tells me to "Shut the F*** up', so I am afraid, he is unapproachable. He has NEVER been one to come over and visit. His sisters do with their children. Yes I have been to his home, but not enough , he says. He has joint custody of his children ( my grandchildren ) so I did not have them as often as my daughters children. He never calls only when he needs money, though I have never said anything to him about that. He met a nice woman with a child and plans to marry her in August of this year. I am so heartbroken and depressed, I can't sleep, I cry all the time. My first son Died of S.I.D.S, and this son was a blessing and I love him so much. He has accused me of knowing of some very horrible things that supposedly went on when he was growing up. My daughters do not believe they are true, but they love me and their brother. I am beside myself with grief, it's as if he has died like my first son did. I have tried to find ways of letting him know how much I love him and the kids and his wife to be, but my calls and emails fall on deaf ear.
I don't know if I can go on. It hurts too much, it hurts through my heart and soul. If there were any truth to what he has accused me of, I would confess and apologize and do whatever I had to do for my son. What is a mother to do? I can't function and I can't go on this way.:( :confused:

This doesn't come from out of nowhere. If he accuses you of knowing of some horrible thing that went on while he was growing up, believe him. THINK HARD Was there ever a time when he could have been abused by someone. Either sexually or physically? Dad, step dad, coach, scout leader, or priest?? This is not the time for feeling sorry for yourself. This is the time to get to the bottom of this. Has he accused you of anything specific? I suggest that you go through a mental time line of his life and ask yourself what could have provided an opportunity for something to happen. I would be ticked if I had decided that my Mom was too blind to see that something was happening to me and she was "out to lunch" I smell hurt and resentment.

Good luck with this and get busy. BTW, I am very sorry to hear of your other son's death. I can see how that would make you even more desperate for a relationship with this son.. And... no matter what, don't allow your son to speak to you with such disrespect. As Dr. Phil says, You teach people how to treat you.

You can tell him you love him all day, but it won't mean anything until he knows you "get it". Unfortunately for what ever reason, that hasn't happened yet. Why do your daughters not believe it is true? If that is not it, why else would he have such resentment for you? Did you treat your daughters differently from your son? I have a hard time believing you can't come up with any reasons and he just turned on you one day for no reason.

Here is one possible reason this poor woman's son has turned on her: mental illness, such as bipolar disorder, personality disorder - the list goes on. Another could be that he has a sadistic streak. To blame her for the hurt her son is inflicting on her is irresponsible and short sighted. It is not in any way constructive.

To the mom: if I were in your shoes, and I may be soon, I would back off and give it time. Enjoy your daughters and their children. Let your son have his space and perhaps, when he sees that he isn't hurting you and isn't getting your attention, he might change his tune. One thing though - it's a two way street. If he doesn't want you in his life, then he has no right to expect money from you. Please don't give him any more until he shows you the respect you deserve. You worked hard to raise him, and you do deserve better.

Here is my story: I also have a son who I love with all my heart and soul. Since the time he was very young he was able to get his way in every situation through temper tantrums. He has ADHD and an anger management problem. When he was little, he was a terror, destroying everything in his path. But he was so adorable, with the face of an angel. I never believed in spanking, and he was so young, so I would give him what he wanted. Well, my son grew up that way. Expecting everything he wanted, when he wanted it. Now he is 19, unemployed, and living at home while blaming me for his being miserable and not having as much money as he wants. He curses me constantly, tells me I'm poor, and that everything is my fault. I earn a decent living, but his father skipped out on us, so its just my income and my daughters' income. My daughter is fed up with picking up the slack for her spoiled brother, and I don't blame her. But guess who gets the heat? Me. I'm stressed and tired and old. And I can almost guarantee that my son will do the same thing to me that your son is doing to you once he finally leaves home. So what's my fault in all this? Just spoiling him when he was very young. That's all I did. He was never abused. Never had anything horrible happen to him. My guess is that your son might be a little spoiled to, and might also be looking for attention. Why else do this to you, while at the same time holding out his hand for money? Our children are responsible for their actions once they are adults. They can no longer place the responsibility on us. "honor thy mother and thy father" is a commandment. What ever happened to that?

My suggestion is he wants to cut the apron strings on you, show him it works both ways and cut the purse string on him. He only calls you when he wants something tell him N0 you don't see any point when he can not tell you what he is so upset about.
It is possible he has legitimate memories that he holds against you. That doesn't necessarily mean you are aware of what they are and for him to not be willing to discuss it sounds like he wants an excuse to hold a grudge. Often kids remember things differently than we do and they think we could have done something different than what we thought was a good decision. But kids growing up don't realize the issues leading up to the decisions and hold it against you.
I don't know the best way to get him to come around other than not being there for him at his convenience. That can work either extreme but you will have to explain that you don't see the use of trying to work something out when you have no idea what it is you have to fix.

Oh, honey, I'm so sorry you are hurting so much right now. I think that one thing that might help you very much would be to talk to a counselor about this. It can help to have someone who is a professional to give you advice about dealing with this kind of stuff. Your doctor might be able to recommend someone to you.

I'm sorry to hear that your son won't listen to you when you tell him that you truly didn't know of bad things happening to him as a child. Tell him that you would be more than happy to listen and to help him find someone professional to talk to about those things. I think that's really all you can do as far as that goes. If you didn't know, you didn't know, and if you didn't know, it is not your fault. Sometimes when bad things happen, we want someone to blame that we can confront. Maybe your son is putting the blame on you, even though you didn't know, because he just wants to confront someone about it. Maybe he feels the need to lash out at someone because of the pain he is in. It is also possible that there could be mental illness as SeenItAll suggests. Encourage him to see a counselor to discuss those things he says have happened to him.

It's too bad he only calls when he wants money. That's such a shame. It sounds as if he might be a bit manipulative as well. It sounds to me like you are doing all you can to let him know that you love him and want to be in his life. I hope that he feels differently soon. I think you need a lot of support right now. Try to spend lots of time with your other children and see a counselor if possible. If that isn't possible, just talking with a good friend or a religious leader (if that applies to you) can help you feel better too. I hope things start looking up for you soon!

I am sorry if I came off sounding so harsh. I really do feel for you. My 20 yr old daughter can be a bit thoughtless and mean at times to say the least. I, like you felt I went over board to make her life great, and I feel like she doesn't acknowledge or appreciate it. I wanted her childhood to and our relationship to be very close. My relationship with my mother sucks because "she doesn't get it". She never had time for me growing up because her focus was on her new husband, new son, we'll call him golden boy, (eleven yrs. My junior) and her new life. I was the baby sitter. Maid, grass cutter, weed puller, garden picker,and wash, dry, fold, and iron girl. People say, that was then , this is now, get over it and most of the time I keep it in a healthy place. But...
It continues today the same way as it began in 1968. I had my 50th birthday on Jan. 13. Never heard from her. Got a card about a week late. Still haven't spoken to her. She doesn't have time for me, never has, and just has no concept that this might get to me. She thinks we are perfectly normal. We have had it out through the years and she just sarcastly says. "Oh I'm so sorry you had/have such a terrible life." What bothers me the most is SHE JUST ISN'T GETTING IT! That's when you can truly feel free to let it go.

In the mean time, I've got a pretty good life going, despite my low self esteem (If your Momma don't love you- who will? Complex) . Golden Boy is 39 yrs. Old and a BIG Looser. He married a troubled girl and had 2 kids right off the bat. My Mother has had legal custody since the kids were very young. They are teenagers now and all their lives they have been given her hell. Troubled wife eventually died of a drug overdose,and Golden Boy AND his kids stay in trouble with the law. Since 1968, it's ALWAYS BEEN SOMETHING, that caused me to be put on hold.

Anyway, I think I was having one of those "why can't you see what you have done and are doing to me periods" when I responded to your post. My response was skewed with this feeling of not being understood. I'm sorry for your situation and I pray that you first of all find a place of peace. Second, that your son will be able to articulate what is really bothering him. Sometimes, I think my daughter doesn't like herself, and she turns it on me because I am a safe target. I also believe she WANTS
Me to stand up to her instead of take it. She respects me more. I know. Easier said than done when you are feeling hurt and vulnerable. I hope things improve. Keep us posted.

I'm sure this is one of the longest posts on here, for that I'm very sorry. But I hope that someone here can help me before I finally just give up.:( :( :(



To Original Poster, I so feel your pain and share your sleepless nights. My 34 year old son hates me as well, and honestly at this point that feeling has become mutual, or so it seems so in my heart right now.

His hatred has always been there, you moms who experience it, you know. Like when they force themselves to make the obligatory visit once or twice a year and you hug them good bye and you can feel how they tense up and more or less put their arm around you but the only thing that touches you is the hand as it lightly pats your back. His elbow is not relaxed and held stiff and pointing outward... you know what I mean, right?

If you asked him today why he hates me it would be because of things I've said to him over the last 6 months or so, but that would not really get to the heart of his hatred. It started long long ago I'm sure. I know it did, he's hugged me like that since he was about 13 years old.

He has a younger sister who is now 28 and just had her first baby, a little girl. I mention that because him and his second wife now have 4 boys, between 9 and 4 months, and the last two are here because they were trying for a girl.

I even get into this because they live a life style close to Donald Trump on a paupers wages, and I know they are in debt at least 1/2 a million dollars, taking lavish vacations 2 -3 times a years, buy boats, 3-4 motorcycles, huge SUV's, etc. For some reason, nothing is ever enough, not one thing.
(what I can't figure out is how they are making enough money to even make payments on all of this, so I expect to see their mug shots on the local news any evening)

His spending and behavior toward me increased big time when his sister became pregnant. Still at this point he wasn't as bad as he became as his sister's pregnancy marched on. Then a week after his #3 son had turned one, and 3 weeks after his sister found out she was having a little girl he called to tell me they were pregnant again.

When his sister found out it kind of hurt her for a moment cause she felt like he was trying to steel her thunder, her words. Which I understood. Son had my complete undivided grandmotherly attention for 8 years and I guess it really was his sisters turn. However my grandmothering for son involved driving about 30 minutes each way to transfer children when he and his wife's work schedule conflicted, and a couple hours in the after noon on Thanksgiving. And being invited to his home on each of the boys birthday's throughout the years.

Anyway for the first couple of months while son was pregnant with #4 things improved, talking more on the phone etc. Then son and wife had ultrasound and found they were having another boy! Up until that point he had talked about how the two little girl cousins could be so close etc. (guess he thinks cousins must be of same sex to be close).

Things went downhill fast at that point, all but his debt and it increased drastically. He bought a new huge boats, and camper trailer. (I thought you could only pull on thing at a time, and we all live 3 hours from any kind of water/camping playground. Also about that time they booked spring break at Disney World, flying themselves and the three boys down. Got home, then started the boating and camping thing, never eating at home, hired a house keeper, and were constantly going somewhere and needing to leave 1, 2 or all 3 boys with whatever grandparent would take them. Most of the time I'd take the two little ones and his wife's grandmother would take the oldest.

At this point I'm knowing they do not have this kind of money, he owned a used car lot and she worked about 3 days a week. (as you can see they had way too much time on their hands, if they could go like they were going)

It's about this time I finally had to stop doing all this babysitting for them to go, it was wearing me out, plus ticking me off in a way cause other than child transfer time, I didn't see any of them and like many of you know, the only time they called was when they needed a babysitter. But in his case I would also get the what I call, "I gotta" phone call. If it wasn't about babysitting, it was to tell me some new something he got, did, or was planning on doing, and not a word about me, his grandmother, how we were that type of thing. Just all about him.

I honestly got to the point I felt like I was enabling their spending addiction by babysitting, so I retired from that. Now that is when he really got verbal! He told me that in the next year I would give more attention to his sister's one little girl, than all of his boys for the rest of their entire lives, those were his exact words.

I've gotten into enough detail already to cause any readers to fall asleep but I will add that when he and I were talking via email about all of this, I got an email from his wife and pretty it was NOT!

Now my son and I had exchanged some pretty harsh emails but nothing that would or should have caused her to jump in here to the extent she injected herself.

However it was at this point, that really brought to the forefront his deep hatred of me. In her email that went on for pages, she recounted every mistake I had ever made, some I hadn't but son and lead her to believe I had, etc. Some events he left out much detail in order to paint me, his mom in as bad a light as possible. I have to tell you that letter jabbed me so hard, hurt me so bad, that I considered taking my own life to escape the pain.

This is son's second wife, and he turned his first wife against me as well with tales, many that would make Grime's Brothers sound like the gospel truth. But his first wife and I sat and talked one day and she found that I wasn't the monster my son wanted her to believe that I was. (not that a halo is over my head, but I love my children, both of them, and I've seen much worse parents than me!) Until his first wife and I talked I could always feel tension when they came for the holidays and never really knew why. I tried to treat her very nice, in fact I really liked her, but you could tell she didn't take to me at all, until after out chat. And when they divorced I was really sad to have her leave our family.

Second wife and I never had a chance to have that chat. Son kept us at a distance. In fact they had been married 7 years and I had never spoke with her one the phone. When I called the house, if he wasn't home, she wouldn't answer. If they needed a sitter and I was going to meet her to pick up one or two of the boys, he made all the calls, which I thought was a waste, why couldn't her and I make the arrangements.

I never did understand why a son would actually set up a situation where he wants his wife (first, second, or third if that ever be the case) to hate his mom??

Why would a son do that? What is he not getting, or needing? Or is it part of his hatred toward me, so he wants to make sure his wife hates me as well. Misery loves company. However, I wasn't so evil that I wasn't good enough to babysit for them, sometimes a week or so at a time if they were off in Aruba or something.

This past Christmas I send a gift card inside a Christmas card and wished all a Merry Christmas and told son to use this to get the boys some of their Santa. Well, he took that gift card and bought wheels and tires for a race car he's building. (I know this cause I still have my contacts, our family is pretty small) Another thing I just couldn't understand.

How could he take money from his boys and spend it on himself?

During some of our email exchanges over the past few months if he thought he had a good argument so to speak on what we were discussing, he would forward them to his sister. He could have cared less she was just home with a brand new baby, and trying to learn about motherhood for the first time.

In one email, he invited her to one of the grandchildren's birthday pool party, (she was out of the hospital 1 week). He had never invited her before in all these years. So I figure is wasn't so much an invite for her, but a NOT invite for me, right?

In one email he started going on defending his position (whatever that was for the moment) and said "You know what all you and I (speaking to his sister) when through growing up. This confused his sister and she asked him, "Did we have the same mom?"

I saw this as trying to drag his sister over to his "hateon" for mom. It didn't work.

So what is up with that?

Back in Jan he sent his sister an email telling her, "Mom is no longer an option for me, and you and her are a package"!

WHAT! Again, why would he do that?

A couple of weeks ago, his sister reached out to him with an email, even after his last remark. When he replied, again the email was about him and his, and hardly mentioned his new niece who is now 7 months old and he's only saw once, the day she came home from the hospital. (No, they don't live light years from each other, just about 30 miles). Nor did he ask how I was (I've not spoken to him since just after Christmas), nor how his elderly grandmother is, or anything like that, just more conversation about him buying this or doing that.

His sister emailed him back and said since she no longer was working, that she would live to set a time to come up and see her brother and her nephews. He never responded. Something tells me that is a good thing, cause his sister is going to expect him to ooo and goo over her daughter and I just can't see him doing that. (it would be about him and his)

Right?

My heart is breaking. My heart is hurt. And I just don't understand it all. I've pretty much banned his name from being mentioned in my house, cause to talk about it brings the pain to the forefront and takes days for the tears to finally stop flowing.

I've not seen my grandson's since last June. Son's wife in her email to me said I would never see "her" children as long as she was alive. (I first thought she was asking me to come cut her throat, but my dear husband explained it more clearly to me...lol)

Sunday my daughter was up visiting, and his name came up and sent me into a crying dying spiral once again, and once again the pain in my heart brought my mind to a place that scares me.

Monday I got up and made an appointment to see a counselor to see if he can help me reconcile this in my mind enough to where I can shut the door and leave it shut.

I'm wondering why he hates me, or thinks I'm such a bad person? Did he pick up on the beatings I got from his father before we divorced when son was 5 years old. Did he see all my bruises, fat lips, finger marks on my neck and figure I must be bad since I was getting punishment. And you only get punished if you are bad right? Could it have started there? Did I ever stand a chance?

I remember once when son was about 4 years old, I barely bumped a post with his dad's car and this four year old little boy said,"I'm telling daddy and you are going to be in big trouble". Did he hate me that far back? Why would he want his mom to be in trouble?

Dear anothersadmom,

Your situation sounds very similar to my own, although my own son - thank God - does not have any children (yet). What I am having to do, is realize, once again, over and over, that my son is an alcoholic and may also suffer from some kind of mental affliction. He has had anger issues all his life, just like my father (and mother). I react to my son the same way I reacted to my parents, that somehow it must be "my fault." Perfect adult child of alcoholic and codependent thinking.

For now, and for many years, my son has not communicated with me except when he wanted something. He was such a master manipulator, all it took was a little card or small gift and an "I love you Mom" for me to pull out the checkbook and mail a check. Guaranteed! What a joke. He must have gotten a good laugh out of that... all those years, with me footing so many bills and offering to, so he could (as soon as he had cashed the check) throw it back in my face: "I never asked you for ANYTHING!"

As a single mother, looking back, I must have spoiled him rotten. He was also an only child, so he never learned to share or do anything for anyone else. It was always a battle just to get him to do his regular chores. I stayed single for a very long time as I was always afraid that any man I might marry would beat my child as I had been beaten by my own father. This realization only came to me last night. I cried myself to sleep with this.

So, what this all comes down to, at least for me, is that I must learn how to live FOR Myself. Yes, "selfish" as that may seem to sound (at least to ears like mine), I HAVE TO COME FIRST at this point in time. If my son has so little regard and respect for me, then he can go his own way. Honestly, as a test, I refused to allow myself to send him any money or "apologies" (for what, he would have course never say) or "make nice" emails. When I have slipped up and allowed myself to contact him, he normally will use this opening of the door as an opportunity to attack me all over again. Therefore, IT MUST BE ME THAT CUTS HIM OUT OF MY LIFE. For my own sanity, to save myself.

I have suffered from depression for most of my life, it seems now when I "review the facts." I have had very good reasons for this depression, but I have to admit that it's there. I also know that mental illness runs in my family. High intelligence also, but mental illness none the less. It is not easy to admit to any of this, or to the fact that my son hates me - always has and probably always will - but if God cursed me for my "sins" I don't know what they are. The only "sin" I can find is one of believing the malicious things other people say about me, when they have their own agendas in mind.

Therefore the only course I see open to myself is to really "learn how to pray." Pray for Peace, pray for God to grant me the Gift of Forgiveness, and for God to grant us the vision of mercy and compassion, so that I can practice what I wish to receive. Dear God, please show me the way.

That is my hope and my prayer for us all. I will have to learn how to be that which I wish others to be towards me. I haven't the foggiest notion as to how to begin, but with a devil for a tormentor (even in the guise of my son), I have to admit that this is one of the "greatest teachers" around. If I can learn to distance myself from his rages, and treat him as one would an abusive husband, and sever all ties; "love him from a distance" and protect and care for myself, then all will be well. It's really about ME LEARNING TO TREAT MYSELF WELL. That's it in a nutshell.

How did I practice? Well, this will make you laugh: Whenever I would get the urge to send him a check and a little note "to make nice," I would instead go out and buy myself something! That's how I got this wonderful new laptop that I am writing this on. Finally, I could afford something for myself!

As long as I don't slip up and have "contact," which has once again proven to be TOXIC, I am fine. It takes me days to recover, as you said happens to you, and I'm in the throes right now, but I look at it like "playing with snakes" and once again I got bit by a rattlesnake.

His drinking is not my problem, I don't drink. But it runs in my family and I have to accept that we all make our own choices to take care of ourselves, or to not. So I have to learn to care for myself, and give myself everything that was missing from my own childhood. Melody Beattie has a lot of wonderful books about codependency, they have helped me immensely. I hope they can help you, too. That and Al-Anon. I wish there were meetings near me, but thank goodness for the Internet!

Blessings to all, and let's help support each other. Thanks to everyone for posting. It's a long hard road, but once I learn how to pray and learn how to love (even from a distance) all will be well. I truly believe this and hope it becomes true for you as well. Until I came to this site, I thought "it was only me." Imagine my surprise to find out that there are lots of sons who are cruel and abusive... I guess that's how "the husbands" get that way. They must be born that way. Sad, isn't it? But it is NOT MY FAULT. They are responsible for their own behavior, especially once they are grown!

All I have to do is teach people, including my own son, "how to treat me." I wouldn't take abuse from anyone else in this world, so why take it from him? Alcoholism and addiction creates very self-centered personalities (or maybe they start that way) and they are very manipulative, so softhearted or "guilty" people like me are easy prey. That's why I have to learn how to take care of myself and protect myself, and "just say no" to taking care of everyone else. I can take care of MYSELF. I give myself permission to do so! No one else is going to, that's a fact. At least my self-centered son is certainly not going to.

I am a good person and worthy of more... in fact, I should always put myself "first on the list." This is my lesson, after a lifetime of "making lists" that never even had my name on them. And I was the one writing the list! Time for a change, and every step I take in the right direction feels so good. Now I want to have contact only with positive people in my life. The rest I can cut out, no matter who they are. Mother, brother, father, son, if they make me miserable I don't have to be around them.

Over and Out.

Dear God, please show us the way. Thank you God for all the things I do have to be grateful for, including this website. I need to remember "gratefulness" for what I do have, instead of don't, morning, noon and night. A wonderful website with a daily email you can sign up for is at gratefulness.org. It gives me a little lesson to remember every day.

Amen.


Yours, Catherine Todd

Catherine, I LOVED your post. I'm so glad you came to this realization. I think it's a lesson that many of us should put into practice. Helen Reddy used to have a song that went like this...

That's why, I am a best friend to myself
And I take me out whenever I feel low
And I make my life as happy as a best friend would
I'm as nice to me as anyone I know

This is my own personal little "fight song"
I wish for everyone the most important valuable gift of all... peace of mind and spirit.

Catherine:

That post was so inspirational and must have been heaven sent to me today. Your prayers worked, your requests to God were sent to me on this snowy morning.

I plan on printing your post and keeping it close by for those weak moments that come far too often.

When trying to talk about this with my daughter, husband (or whoever will listen) I have like you mentioned that there are a lot of rapists, child molesters, murderers, and s in this world and they all have mothers.

I was raised in an alcoholic home, and I forget (block out) the effects that had on me and how I'm conditioned to react to situations now. Thanks for reminding me of that.

You mentioned having problems getting your son to do his chores, I relate to that as well, I had trouble getting him to take a bath or brush his teeth.

I hate that I let him suck me into nasty verbal exchanges, at times I get as mean, nasty and hateful as he does. I know I'm provoked, but that is no excuse. I hear so many times people will say, "Who is the adult here" but dangit, at 34 years old, I'd say I'm no more adult than he is, right? I just carry a different adult title, mother, while his title is son.

Like you I was a single mom as well. But I had two children, and they could not have turned out any more differently. I let a man go, one who I loved deeply and always will to better serve my children's needs instead of my own. I did eventually marry, a couple of more time, and finally found a man who is a wonderful man and provider, but only after my son moved out of the house, he helped me finish raising my daughter and they love each other very much.

The main thing I have to pray for, remember, and keep in the forefront of my mind is I must STOP letting my son's actions, attacks, emotions, effect mine. Right now, if he's good, nice kind my mood is high, when he's being vindictive, ugly, and over bearing, my mood is low. This I must learn to stop. This must be residual emotions from being a child of an alcoholic.

My son isn't an alcoholic, but he has addictions, and the effects on family relations are just the same. His addiction is spending. For him, no matter what he has, cars, boats, children, junk, nothing is ever enough. Like an addict, no amount of the drug of choice feeds the hunger.

I don't understand why he treats the one person who would have been there for him when everyone else left him the worse. Now to the point I honestly can say I can't stand him. Nor would I want anyone to know, this person is my son. Isn't that the saddest thing ever, or close to it.

It is so hard to not and slip and make contact. So many times I've wanted to call or email and say I'm sorry, but I can't do it! I just can't do it. For me, this is one thing I can not do. It would open the door to more use and abuse, and in all honesty I'm not sorry for one thing. Even though I'm sure he thinks I should be "sorry" for many things.

Some of us here who have "son's who hate them" need to write a book, and I have the perfect title, that plays off another book title, our could be "Mothers and The Sons Who Hate Them.

You comment of the devil of a tormentor in the guise of a son, so rings in my head today. It is very true for me as well.

I have to learn to be that selfish person who throws their own life jacket to themselves. No one else can save me from this pain but my very own self! I must stop him from brainwashing me into believing it's me that is the devil in the guise of his mom.

When I am able to stake a stand for myself, how will I handle family situations? What about my grandson's birthday, do I send a card, do I not? If I do, will they get it, or will it go into the trash. If I don't send anything, will they be hurt, will they hear their father talking about what a terrible grandmother they have, she didn't even send a card?

What about the rare family gatherings, do I attend if he's going to be there, do I stay home and sulk. What about the relationship with his sister, if they get together and all my grandchildren are in one place at the same time, what do I do? Again, stay home and sulk or go and ignore my son, which one can't do without everyone at the event feeling the tension and ruining it for everyone. How do I stop all of this from being my fault as well?

Now that I'm trying to cut him out of my life completely aren't I going to make him right, when he said that I would give more attention to his sister's one daughter than all his boys total for the rest of their lives. I guess I would be fulfilling his own prophecy, right? Yet I can already hear the tongue lashing playing in my head that will come in the future.

After reading that statement above, I can clearly see how damaged I am over this. I'm already anticipating the drunken father coming home in a rage as a child.

His hatred toward me has pushed me to a very bad place on several occasions, almost to a point of no return. I have to remember that is more of his toxin, that is going to cheat my daughter, my grand daughter, my husband, my brother and sisters out of me.

Catherine, thank you for saving me today. I feel safer, more at ease, knowing Catherine Todd is right here.

God Bless you, God Bless Us, Everyone.

Debbie

AnotherSadMom

Dear Debbie,

I just had to write one more time... so much of your post rings so true for me! I had to smile at your book title, ""Mothers and The Sons Who Hate Them." I have read the book "Men Who Hate Women and the Women Who Love Them" over and over again; it could have been my story for sure. Now it's the same story with my son; the authors could have been a "fly on the wall" in my house. How true it is for all of us who "grew up the same way," isn't it?

Perhaps we could get Susan Forward to write another one about "Mothers and The Sons Who Hate Them" as you suggest! The one big smile of the day. I have to keep reminding myself that men who abuse women grow up that way, and can often be identified from a very young age. We just don't expect them to be our own! We have to learn to stand up for ourselves, no matter who is doing the abusing. And we have to be sure not to fall into the trap and "become" that which we don't like, and not turn into an abuser ourselves. That's the biggest thing; learning to "practice patience" or at least remove ourselves from conflicted situations until things calm down. If they don't calm down, then don't engage. No contact is the way it has to be right now, until I can stay calm in the face of anything he throws my way. And since I'm not "there yet," I will stay away and keep my own peace and not have my boat rocked and wrecked on another's shore. That, at least, I can do for myself. No need to let pirates take over!

You wrote: "Now that I'm trying to cut him out of my life completely aren't I going to make him right, when he said that I would give more attention to his sister's one daughter than all his boys total for the rest of their lives. I guess I would be fulfilling his own prophecy, right? Yet I can already hear the tongue lashing playing in my head that will come in the future. guess I would be fulfilling his own prophecy, right? Yet I can already hear the tongue lashing playing in my head that will come in the future."

Yes, that's the "Master Manipulator" at work. He knows just what to say to keep you coming back for more, just like an abusive husband would, sending flowers or making accusations or threats. They will say anything to get what they want, even if it's just to keep you around for more blame and torment. They have to blame somebody, it can't be themselves! All I have to do is learn to "Just Say No." Nancy Raegan was right about that! And as soon as you do it, and MEAN IT, guess what? The firestorm stops. There is nothing more they can do. Watch and see how, once they know you are serious and can't be budged, watch and see how their tune suddenly changes. But don't fall for insincere manipulations. It's up to them to convince you, to show you, they have love and respect for YOU. It's not the other way around, at this stage. Not in my mind, anyway. I've done all I can for years now, and nothing has ever been enough. Fine, it's time for him to feed himself and stop feeding off me. I am not anyone's punching bag, and I won't be his, either. Enough said.


I don't look at it as "cutting my son completely out of my life," though, as I could never be that strong. I tell myself that when he is clean and sober and HE wants a decent, kind and respectful relationship with me, I will be here, ready and waiting. But in the meantime, I will learn how to treat MYSELF with decency, kindness and respect. I would NEVER allow anyone to treat anyone else the way my son treats and talks to me, so why should I let him do it to me? To my face? No, never more. In my mind now I pretend that I am sticking up for a young friend, and then stick up for myself. Works every time, as long as I can remember to see it that way. I am sticking up for that young girl who had no one to protect her when she was small. I can do that NOW.

The best advice I got was from a friend of mine who was married to an alcoholic who also hated his parents. She said that you could "never win" with this man. If his parents didn't come to visit, they "didn't care about him." If they did come, all he did was complain about them the entire time since they were "cutting into his drinking time." She said there was no satisfying him and that YOU CAN NEVER WIN. I always think about this when I think of my son.

Another friend of mine, a strong "father figure" for me, became very angry when I told him what my son was doing and saying to me. He said "That's it. No more. You don't contact him until he treats you with respect. And when he does come back, wanting something, YOU SAY NO AND YOU GIVE HIM NOTHING. Not until he learns." I wish that man had been around when my son was growing up, perhaps my son would have learned to treat me differently. But I made sure that no man was around because I was afraid that they might beat my son the way I was beaten growing up. So, as you said, I can see that the damage runs very, very deep.

I have so much work to do and so far to go. I have to keep reminding myself of this. It isn't just with my son, it just shows up with my son. I've buried the damage everywhere else. Now it's time to HEAL FROM THE INSIDE OUT. Our ultimate love for our children will always win out, so really I don't have to worry about that. I just have to find a way to cauterize the wounds and "stop the bleeding." My son opens up old wounds. That's what I have to remember, and that's where the healing has to begin. FROM THE INSIDE OUT. I can do it, if I just don't give in. Keep on the path, keep moving forward, keep doing the work to know "where what is outside begins." I have to continue to be grateful that I survived my upbringing sufficiently "intact" to not repeat the same mistakes my parents made, and make sure I live the best life I can live, and stay with positive people who live the way I do, and pray for the rest. Keep my distance and put things in God's Hands. That really is the only answer, isn't it? That, and "doing the work" we are doing right here on this website.

My son's wife left him, he's been stalked by another woman crazier than he is, and he can't keep a job or a relationship for very long. 4 or 5 years tops. Why should he be any different with me? It's sad and I am ashamed to say I am ashamed of him, and I don't "like" him either. It has taken me a long, long time to admit to this out loud or even in my own mind, but there you have it. I wouldn't even speak to him if I didn't know him, as he is a complete jerk. Unconditional love, some might say? Yes, but FROM A DISTANCE. I don't have to "love" abusive individuals. Apparently I am supposed to "forgive" them, and since I am no good at that, I have asked God to "teach me how to Love." Love with compassion, but not as a beggar going to a blind man who has nothing of real substance to give. That's the same thing as wishing and praying our alcoholic parent(s) would / could "love" us. They can't, anymore than our addicted children can "love" anyone else. We have to learn to love and accept the world as it is. Whatever that means. See the "reality" of things and don't turn away in disgust or anger, but ask God to bless them and be on our way.

I can learn to "love" or at least "accept" my enemies (which I have to admit that my son is, whether I like it or not) and that I can't change these things, only they can. I can be open to these changes, when and if they occur, but I must use "discernment" to tell if they are sincerely or only manipulating me further. Needy, greedy individuals are dangerous when they don't get their way, so my way has to be right now to learn to take care of myself. See in myself all those things that are there, that I wish my "son" could see in me. Give myself the love and ACCEPTANCE that I wish my "son" would give to me. When I can do this for myself, maybe my resentment and anger towards my son will also dissipate, and I can feel compassion for him, instead of "needing" him to love me. It's as if I have transferred all the need I had for love when I was small and later growing up to him, and I'm still not getting it. I hate to admit this, writing these words, but the only change I can make is in myself. So that is where it begins and ends. With me and with God.

God grant us peace in the world and change our hearts so that we can be what we wish to receive from others. Let me learn how to live, and let me learn how to love. Amen.

Thanks again for writing; I can't tell you how much this site has meant to me today. I felt like I was going crazy, and as difficult as these "lessons" are for me to learn, especially by the ones we hold so dear, if I can just "get it" then maybe the world will change. It will change inside of me, and be reflected outside into the world. With the light of God's grace all can be achieved. I hope and pray! None of this means that "I'm happy" about how things have turned out, or what I am attempted to do in trying to stand up for, and take care of, myself. But I know it has to be done.

There are plenty of "Little Hitlers" running around in this world, and bullies are everywhere. They all start in families of one kind or another. It no longer has to be in mine. I can be "family" with anyone I want. It doesn't have to be with someone who hurts me. I have the right to good treatment no matter what, and I give it in return. That's not too much to ask for, and we all deserve to be treated well. Even we mothers here on this board! :)

Now I really have to stop, and get to work on some other positive endeavors. I hope I haven't worn everyone out! Thanks to everyone here, especially those who responded. Cozyk, too!

Today I can only hope to learn to "love from a distance" that would be a great improvement from where I am, today.

It's very hard to say the words, I Hate My Son, but "today" that is what I feel. Whether any love is just buried under anger I don't know yet. May never know.

At this point I have to stop fearing him being angry with me, for whatever his "flavor of the day" is, and that is the hardest part. I actually FEAR him being upset, with me... my son, I'm fear my son being upset with me... I have to repeat that over and over to really get that reality to float to the top of the "ocean of emotion" in my mind. Right now it sets on top like as oil slick from the Exon Valdez. It smells!

Why on earth should I, the mom, fear him, the son, being upset, mad, angry with me? How stupid is that! I am the mom, he is the son!

I have figured out one thing. When I saw that my daughter was reaching out to him and I felt a sting of pain, I didn't understand where that came from. Wouldn't I want my children to have a relationship. Then I got it. I am afraid he will contaminate my relationship with my daughter, just as he has done with his wives. Again, more fear from him, more fear from my son. Like you, I would not let any man-husband-stranger-neighbor treat me the way I've let my son use and abuse me, yet here I am still in terrible pain and despair because my evil son and his viscous hateful wife hate me.

My son's second (current) wife is as toxic as he is and they feed off each other and keep each other fired up with all anger directly at me, well when I'm not at their beacon call. When I told them both their "allotment" with me had been used up, they were done with me and as I stated before "I would never see "her" children as long as she lived".

I do get some solace knowing that they have 4 boys! And it is highly likely they are going to get back what they have dished out to me 4 times over! I do have to admit that brings a slight grin to my sad face, even though that smile doesn't last too long. The largest smile comes to my face when I think the evil woman he married is going to have 4 daughter in laws, and that's if each of them only marry once!! :D

As I told my son once when I let him drag me into the nasty banter, "your hell is yet to come". I also told him to be careful about getting on a "high horse, he can't ride" when he was busy point his finger at me.

I know I have to STOP getting on the abusive ride he want me to take, it's only for his pleasure not mine. I've always wondered if he was abusive to his wife, but after her nasty letter to me, I found I couldn't care less.

Today, my pain has eased, thank to finding this board and reading your posts. You, Catherine eased a very sad mothers pain, how can anyone ever find the words to thank a person for that.


Today, my mind rested and thoughts of my son were more once every 15-20 minutes instead of once every 5 minutes, so that is an improvement already.:) I once thought about getting one of those little "clicker" counter things and just see how many times a day he ran through my mind in a day and see if I can't reduce that. Then realized that when I would see the "clicker" I would think of him, and that would defeat my purpose wouldn't it.

Tonight, I, Debbie, will sleep. More peacefully than I have in months. Tomorrow, well I will have to see how that goes.

Some way, through this forum, pray or counseling... I will find a way to accept I gave birth to some one who hates me. How that can be I've not figured out. I've only loved him in every way I know how, and all for nothing. I gave birth to as . That's as hard to say as to say I hate my son, today anyway. If he didn't look so much like me I swear they made a mistake at the hospital. Lord, I wonder how many parents have said that... lol.

But tonight I sleep. God said yes to my prayer, or maybe it was your prayer. Who cares, relief was granted.

God Bless You, Catherine, NC

From Debbie, KY
A Member of:
Mothers and Sons Who Hate Them:cool:

Catherine, and all who are experiencing this problem:

I found this a few months ago when I was at one of my lowest points, there have been more low points since and probably will be more, but this clearly addressed every single thing my son does to ensure his hatred toward me sustains.

A favorite tactic of the bully in the family is to set people against each other. The benefits to the bully are that:

a) the bully gains a great deal of gratification (a perverse form of satisfaction) from encouraging and provoking argument, quarreling and hostility, and then from watching others engage in adversarial interaction and destructive conflict, and

b) the ensuing conflict ensures that people's attention is distracted and diverted away from the cause of the conflict


Bullies are adept at distorting peoples' perceptions with intent to engender a negative view of their target in the minds of family members, neighbors, friends and people in positions of officialdom and authority; this is achieved through undermining, the creation of doubts and suspicions, and the sharing of false concerns, etc.

The bully may try to establish an exclusive relationship (based on apparent trust and confidence) with one family member such that they (the bully) are seen as the sole reliable source of information; this may be achieved by portraying the target (and certain other family members) as irresponsible, unstable, undependable, uncaring, unreliable and untrustworthy, perhaps by the constant highlighting - using distortion and fabrication - of alleged failures, breaches of trust, lack of reliability, etc.

The process is reinforced by inclusion of the occasional piece of juicy gossip about the target's alleged misdemeanors or untrustworthiness in respect of relationships and communication with people.

This is not to be confused with family members getting together and discussing the actually bully or the above paragraph would also apply to them. There two are very different and you have to take into account all other aspects of the "family bully"

Any person who is capable of exposing and breaking the dependency is targeted with venom and will find their name blackened at every opportunity.

When close to being outwitted and exposed, the bully cries victimhood and turns the focus on themselves - this is another example of manipulating people through their emotion of guilt, eg sympathy, feeling sorry, etc

Attributes of a Manipulator:

* is a convincing, practiced liar and when called to account, will make up anything spontaneously to fit their needs at that moment
* has a Jekyll and Hyde nature - is vile, vicious and vindictive in private, but innocent and charming in front of witnesses; no-one can (or wants to) believe this individual has a vindictive nature - only the current target of the serial bully's aggression sees both sides; whilst the Jekyll side is described as "charming" and convincing enough to deceive personnel, management and a tribunal, the Hyde side is frequently described as "evil"; Hyde is the real person, Jekyll is an act
* excels at deception and should never be underestimated in their capacity to deceive
* uses excessive charm and is always plausible and convincing when peers, superiors or others are present (charm can be used to deceive as well as to cover for lack of empathy)
* is often described as smooth, slippery, slimy, ingratiating, fawning, toadying, obsequious, sycophantic
* relies on mimicry, repetition and regurgitation to convince others that he or she is both a "normal" human being and a tough dynamic manager, as in extolling the virtues of the latest management fads and pouring forth the accompanying jargon
* is unusually skilled in being able to anticipate what people want to hear and then saying it plausibly
* cannot be trusted or relied upon
* fails to fulfill commitments
* is emotionally retarded with an arrested level of emotional development; while language and intellect may appear to be that of an adult, the bully displays the emotional age of a five-year-old
* is emotionally immature and emotionally untrustworthy
* exhibits unusual and inappropriate attitudes to sexual matters, sexual behavior and bodily functions; underneath the charming exterior there are often suspicions or hints of sex discrimination and sexual harassment, perhaps also sexual dysfunction, sexual inadequacy, sexual perversion, sexual violence or sexual abuse, and leaving their playboy magazines out for their young children to easily see!
* in a relationship, is incapable of initiating or sustaining intimacy
* holds deep prejudices (eg against the opposite gender, people of a different sexual orientation, other cultures and religious beliefs, foreigners, etc - prejudiced people are unvaryingly unimaginative) but goes to great lengths to keep this prejudicial aspect of their personality secret
* is self-opinionated and displays arrogance, audacity, a superior sense of entitlementinvulnerability and untouchability and sense of
* has a deep-seated contempt of clients in contrast to his or her professed compassion
* is a control freak and has a compulsive need to control everyone and everything you say, do, think and believe; for example, will launch an immediate personal attack attempting to restrict what you are permitted to say if you start talking knowledgeably about psychopathic personality or antisocial personality disorder in their presence - but aggressively maintains the right to talk (usually unknowledgeably) about anything they choose; serial bullies despise anyone who enables others to see through their deception and their mask of sanity
* displays a compulsive need to criticize while simultaneously refusing to value, praise and acknowledge others, their achievements, or their existence
* shows a lack of joined-up thinking with conversation that doesn't flow and arguments that don't hold water
* flits from topic to topic so that you come away feeling you've never had a proper conversation
* refuses to be specific and never gives a straight answer
* is evasive and has a Houdini-like ability to escape accountability
* undermines and destroys anyone who the bully perceives to be an adversary, a potential threat, or who can see through the bully's mask
* is adept at creating conflict between those who would otherwise collate incriminating information about them
* is quick to discredit and neutralize anyone who can talk knowledgeably about antisocial or sociopathic behaviors
* may pursue a vindictive vendetta against anyone who dares to held them accountable, perhaps using others' resources and contemptuous of the damage caused to other people and organisations in pursuance of the vendetta
* is also quick to belittle, undermine, denigrate and discredit anyone who calls, attempts to call, or might call the bully to account
* gains gratification from denying people what they are entitled to
* is highly manipulative, especially of people's perceptions and emotions (eg guilt)
* poisons peoples' minds by manipulating their perceptions
* when called upon to share or address the needs and concerns of others, responds with impatience, irritability and aggression
* is arrogant, haughty, high-handed, and a know-all
* often has an overwhelming, unhealthy and narcissistic attention-seeking need to portray themselves as a wonderful, kind, caring and compassionate person, in contrast to their behaviour and treatment of others; the bully sees nothing wrong with their behavior and chooses to remain oblivious to the discrepancy between how they like to be seen and how they are seen by others
* is spiritually dead although may loudly profess some religious belief or affiliation
* is mean-spirited, officious, and often unbelievably petty
* is mean, stingy, and financially untrustworthy
* is greedy, selfish, a parasite and an emotional vampire
* is always a taker and never a giver
* is convinced of their superiority and has an overbearing belief in their qualities of leadership but cannot distinguish between leadership (maturity, decisiveness, assertiveness, co-operation, trust, integrity) and bullying (immaturity, impulsiveness, aggression, manipulation, distrust, deceitfulness)
* often fraudulently claims qualifications, experience, titles, entitlements or affiliations which are ambiguous, misleading, or bogus
* often misses the semantic meaning of language, misinterprets what is said, sometimes wrongly thinking that comments of a satirical, ironic or general negative nature apply to him or herself
* knows the words but not the song
* is constantly imposing on others a false reality made up of distortion and fabrication
* sometimes displays a seemingly limitless demonic energy especially when engaged in attention-seeking activities or evasion of accountability and is often a committeeaholic or apparent workaholic, in woman it's not unusual for them to remain pregnant as much as possible to gain attention they need.



Well, no wonder we fear, then loathe these people, be it our own selves (at time of weakness) or our sons.

I myself could take each attribute listed above and write a book of those exact experiences I have encounter from my son. It might even turn out to be a real "never ending" story because so far I've been unable to "end" the effect it has on me, but I'm getting there, with the help of this very board and a whole lot of prayers.

I know there are thousands of us moms out there with adult children who hate them. I hope that they find this and can be comforted by reading our discussions, about our pain, and know they are not alone.

Hopefully I can find strength to continue my journey away from the pain and broken heart, I'm working on it minute by minute. Someday soon I hope to truly know it's not my fault, none of it. I was damned no matter what I did or will do in the future when it comes to my son. However it's yet to play out fully on which of us are truly the "damned".

I don't look for things to ever improve, not in this world anyway. Nor do I want the dramatic reconciliation of either of us on our deathbeds. (that would only serve to ease the quilt of my abuser) If he couldn't love me when I had love to give and a life time to share it, don't expect it now will be what I will think,. I think.

Maybe we will can come back together on the other side, but I can't see me in his life anymore on this side of heaven. I have to protect myself, I have to give myself permission to live out the rest of my life fully and completely as well as joyfully. And I can't do that being used and abused by my son.

Like Catherine, if I met this person on the street, in a shop, as a neighbor I would not like him, so why because I gave birth to him is it expected I MUST love this abuser, when otherwise I wouldn't even LIKE this abuser.

A side note here: I was remembering a conversation he and I had just after Katrina hit our southern coast. I decided that I must go down and assist, so on my own I used our van, called on all my friends for donations of goods, doctors, lawyers, anyone I knew. Everyone really came through and was so supportive. But guess who thought I was nuts! Yes, my dear son. He called and said, "Are you nuts! What do you think you are going to do. You've lost your mind" and so forth. Not one word of support. Not one word of him being proud of his mom to stepping up to help others in need, not one offer of donated items, toys, clothes anything. NOTHING!

When I returned after two weeks, our local newspaper did a story of what all I did, what I saw, experienced etc. My son was not interested in hearing anything about it, he could have cared less. I now see, it's because it wasn't about HIM!

Pray today everyone of us, pray for peace in our own hearts, but I've decided to no longer waste my prayers on my son, let him pray for what he needs himself. Yes, I've become selfish even in my prayers when it comes to him, sad isn't it?:(

Debbie, KY

I really enjoyed meeting you all online and hope that "all is well," despite any problems we may be having. My short-lived experience here did me a great deal of good, and I hope I was able to help others as well. Sharing and caring, no matter what the circumstances, really does make a difference in this world.

I love the books by Melody Beattie on codependency, and learning to “care for ourselves” and stop trying to “fix everyone else,” along with Wayne Kritsburg's "Adult Children of Alcoholics" (ACOA) book, and the Dalai Lama and “peace and meditation,” with “emotions passing overhead like clouds in the sky. I also love the Gratefulness.org site with it's free daily email “Word for the Day”... and reading and talking about prayer and “putting it in God's Hands” right here on this website!

So this is the last bit of “little gifts” I hope I can give to everyone who has broken their heart, or had their heart broken, and I hope that peace and comfort can come to every one of us, including family members where conflict still reigns. I am sure that if we can find peace and acceptance inside our own selves, we can give that peace and acceptance to others and to the world. What could be better than that?

Thanks so much to everyone, and keep in touch!

I really enjoyed meeting you all online and hope that "all is well," despite any problems we may be having. My short-lived experience here did me a great deal of good, and I hope I was able to help others as well. Sharing and caring, no matter what the circumstances, really does make a difference in this world.


There is no need for your experience here to be "short-lived". You were banned (a decision made by other mods) because of gross violations of the rules of this site against insulting and harassing other members. However, I felt that you did have something valuable to contribute and that your violations were due to your unfamiliarity with this site. After corresponding with you, I felt you understood your transgressions and were sincere in your desire to help others (the goal of this site) so I reinstated you.

Feel free to contribute positively to this site. But you need to be careful to stay within the rules.

Dear Carahayes:'I SO feel for you- I went through the same thing for a year, and I thought it would kill me! I cried all the time- sometimes I would even start crying at work ! Is there any way you can talk to the girl he plans on marrying? Or maybe a friend of his can help you get through to him? In my case, I cried, I prayed, and I e-mailed him every single day. I never gave up. At first I would send him letters, but he took every single thing I said the wrong way. My son too blamed me for everything in his life- and I mean everything- even down to the fact that he claimed I never made him brush his teeth as a child ! (show me a mother who doesn't make her kids brush their teeth!)- He said I would never know my grandchild because he did not want my "parenting influences". It was unbearable- I thought I would die! But like I said, I never gave up. I e-mailed him asking how long he was going to "punish" me because I couldn't stand it. He e-mailed me back that he had no time frame but he would "think" about talking to me. Not long after that (and almost one year to the day after our own altercations)- he called me and wanted me to come bond with my grandson. My point is that I never gave up and you should not either. My son has grown up a lot in the past year. He also constantly asked me for money- but since he has been back with me- has not asked me for a penny. Right now he is out in Arizona, so I miss him terribly and I worry, but at least he calls often, or I call him. Now that he is planning to get married, maybe things will change for your son. At the very least, when you do e-mail him, try to get him to tell you exactly what he is referring to when he says you did "horrible things". After all, how can you defend yourself, or clear the air when you don't know what it is you were supposed to have done? I will pray for you- my heart goes out to you- I was in your shoes. My family was there for me, but I know they were also tired of the constant crying about it- and it was worse for them because there was nothing they could do to help the situation. I really wish I could give you better advice, but please keep me posted. The kids always complain about the parents, but if only they realized what they did TO the parents- how much it hurts. Like I always told my son, kids don't come with instructions- if they did, we would all be perfect parents. :D

My heart is shattered. My 30 year old son said he never wants to see or talk to me again. He has yelled and cursed at me to the top of his lungs telling me how horrible i am as a mother and a grandmother. He was always emotional as a child. in the last five years he has been horrible to me. When i asked why, he tells me to "Shut the F*** up', so I am afraid, he is unapproachable. He has NEVER been one to come over and visit. His sisters do with their children. Yes I have been to his home, but not enough , he says. He has joint custody of his children ( my grandchildren ) so I did not have them as often as my daughters children. He never calls only when he needs money, tho i have never said anything to him about that. He met a nice woman with a child and plans to marry her in august of this year. I am so heartbroken and depressed, I can't sleep, I cry all the time. My first son Died of S.I.D.S, and this son was a blessing and i love him so much. He has accused me of knowing of some very horrible things that supposedly went on when he was growing up. My daughters do not believe they are true, but they love me and their brother. I am beside myself with grief, it's as if he has died like my first son did. I have tried to find ways of letting him know how much i love him and the kids and his wife to be, but my calls and emails fall on deaf ear.
I don't know if i can go on. it hurts too much, it hurts thru my heart and soul. If there were any truth to what he has accused me of, i would confess and apologize and do whatever i had to do for my son. What is a mother to do? I can't funtion and I can't go on this way.:( :confused:
I do see that your son may hate you, and that indeed is a pain, but there may have been things you have done in order to hurt him without possessing such an intention, but still his feelings are what they are.

Do not feel guilty or sad for these things, remember, there is always hope. There exists a high chance that if you would arrange a meeting with your son and talk to him, apologizing for what mother you may have been and saying you do not want to lose him, your dear son and tell him how you feel, even though you may not know for what you truly apologize even such a lie can easily touch the soul of your son and I believe that he shall then forgive you and also apologize.

Your son may also be in a certain unpleasant situation in life, but unfortunately I know not but if that indeed is so, the wisest decision would be to leave him alone for a while now and when he is stabilized tell him how you feel and that you truly care

By all means try not to express any anger, hatred or negative feelings towards your son, he may be very delicate in this case and will easily hate you to the bottom of his heart if you act wrongly.

I hope my short advice will help you

Believe me there are several posibilities after this but I may only give advice depending on how he acts, he may say for you to shut up once more but I believe that if he truly loves you he shall see your sadness(often seen by shredded tears) and be truly sorry.

Wow- do I ever FEEL that! First of all, most of what you said was written by me over one year ago, so I think I am able to say in all honesty that I know exactly how you feel. There is no pain that goes deeper than the pain of feeling hated by your own child. And this board was the best idea I ever came up with while going through it all. I could never had gotten by without it! Don't ever give up hope- without hope, what is there? You can do what I did- I e-mailed him every day (he would not talk to me on the phone, and every letter I sent- he took every single thing I said the wrong way)-------I even had his sister e-mail him, his stepfather sent him such a heartfelt e-mail it would make you cry... even his father sent him an e-mail trying to encourage him to get back with his family. But in the end it has to come from your son- he will reach out to you when/if he wants to try to have any kind of relationship. The other things I did to get by: pray and cry and write to people on this board. It will all help. :)

I'm so glad I found you guys. I never thought in a million years I would be saying my adult son hates me but that's what it's come down to. He was a loving, respectful son until 2 1/2 yrs ago he met and married his wife within a 5 month period. Both were in their early thirites and first marriage for both. We thought our daughter in law was his perfect mate, she seemed so nice and thoughtful. However, rage from my son towards me became common shortly after meeting her. A few months ago I started seeing a therapist because I was feeling so badly and wondered what I have done or said to deserve this rage. According to my son I have done nothing right from the time he was born. Although my therapist hasn't seen my daughter in law and son, from what I have described to him, he believes my daughter in law is a manipulative narcissist. Since Christmas, they have chosen to have nothing to do with my husband, his only sister and me. Before they were married my son had two dogs who came to live with us since my daughter in law didn't want the dogs. When they got married, she didn't invite my son's only sibling to be in the wedding. According to them, we never call enough or visit them. However whenever we have called to say we will be visiting, they always have something else planned. They are now pregnant and we were notified by a card. I have no hopes of being able to be a part of our first grandchild's life. I can't help but think our son has been brainwashed because we no longer are able to talk reason with him or even defend ourselves. He is no longer the fun, respectful, caring son we used to know. It breaks my heart.

I'm so glad I found you guys. I never thought in a million years I would be saying my adult son hates me but that's what it's come down to. He was a loving, respectful son until 2 1/2 yrs ago he met and married his wife within a 5 month period. Both were in their early thirites and first marriage for both. We thought our daughter in law was his perfect mate, she seemed so nice and thoughtful. However, rage from my son towards me became common shortly after meeting her. A few months ago I started seeing a therapist because I was feeling so badly and wondered what I have done or said to deserve this rage. According to my son I have done nothing right from the time he was born. Although my therapist hasn't seen my daughter in law and son, from what I have described to him, he believes my daughter in law is a manipulative narcissist. Since Christmas, they have chosen to have nothing to do with my husband, his only sister and me. Before they were married my son had two dogs who came to live with us since my daughter in law didn't want the dogs. When they got married, she didn't invite my son's only sibling to be in the wedding. According to them, we never call enough or visit them. However whenever we have called to say we will be visiting, they always have something else planned. They are now pregnant and we were notified by a card. I have no hopes of being able to be a part of our first grandchild's life. I can't help but think our son has been brainwashed because we no longer are able to talk reason with him or even defend ourselves. He is no longer the fun, respectful, caring son we used to know. It breaks my heart.


Mom10:

I'm glad you found other mom's that are going through this, it really does help with the pain.

As hard as it is, at this point there in little you can do. I had my first appointment with a therapist this week trying to deal with this kind of pain. Honestly I believe the pain would be less if my son had died. I know that would be painful but it would have an "end" so to speak where this is an ongoing slow painful death to your heart and soul.

I don't know if your son has married a narcissistic person or not, who really does. I know what I've seen from my son as he's progressed into his 30's as well is that this behavior can develop or be learned from an outside influence.

In my case I guess my son has hated me since the day he took his first breath, and only came out with it when he found a partner he could team up with. He made sure his first wife hated me, he did the same with his second wife.

I swear I think he's wedding vows are "love, honor, and hate my mom with me...

Like you, my son has stopped having anything to do with his only sister, he says we are a "package deal" and I'm (his mom) no longer an "option" to him. An option!! Lord, I wish I had known all this time our relationship was optional!

As for the upcoming grandchild... I am so sorry you have this pain to deal with.

My mom helped me with the grandchild issue, she told me from experience that I shouldn't put too much into the grandchildren, cause when the grow up they seem to forget your phone number and address... lol.

Hope you find some comfort, and know that you are not alone in this, not even close! Go back and read my post on family bullies, I bet your son, and or his wife fit many of those.

Try and get some rest, cry when you need to and talk about it! Don't hold it in, it will eat you alive!

I went back and read your post on family bullies. It fits my situation to a "T". I do believe that bullies are narcissists, it's all about them. What I don't understand and maybe never will is did my son have these hateful feelings for his family all along or did teaming up with his now wife manifest it? When my son rages, he has no empathy for anyone and has a blank look in his eyes. I use to think we had a close relationship with each other but obviously I was wrong. I feel emotionally raped.
Both my son and daughter in law are highly educated yet seem so immature and insecure, otherwise, why do they act this way? My daughter in law sings the praises of her own family, talking about them constantly, however, they never seem interested in our lives. My son has become a Deacon in their church and goes to church every Sunday. He tells us we need to go to church more. I told him he needs to learn to walk the talk because the way he behaves towards his own family is not Christian like. Of course, whenever I challenge him or his wife, he goes off on a rage. He's called me unkind, cruel, scary, bypolar and unsupportive yet when I try to get examples from him about those accusations, he can't come up with anything. Through therapy I can no longer allow this verbal abuse to go on for my own sake. Through therapy I have gone from grieving as if my son died to now being mad. My husband, daughter and I do not deserve this pain. Both he and his wife are now spreading their venom to acquaintances of ours. It seems like my son and his wife are a lethal combination. I really appreciate being able to get my thoughts out. It's cheaper than a therapy session!

I went back and read your post on family bullies. It fits my situation to a "T". I do believe that bullies are narcissists, it's all about them. What I don't understand and maybe never will is did my son have these hateful feelings for his family all along or did teaming up with his now wife manifest it? When my son rages, he has no empathy for anyone and has a blank look in his eyes. I use to think we had a close relationship with each other but obviously I was wrong. I feel emotionally raped.
Both my son and daughter in law are highly educated yet seem so immature and insecure, otherwise, why do they act this way? My daughter in law sings the praises of her own family, talking about them constantly, however, they never seem interested in our lives. My son has become a Deacon in their church and goes to church every Sunday. He tells us we need to go to church more. I told him he needs to learn to walk the talk because the way he behaves towards his own family is not Christian like. Of course, whenever I challenge him or his wife, he goes off on a rage. He's called me unkind, cruel, scary, bypolar and unsupportive yet when I try to get examples from him about those accusations, he can't come up with anything. Through therapy I can no longer allow this verbal abuse to go on for my own sake. Through therapy I have gone from grieving as if my son died to now being mad. My husband, daughter and I do not deserve this pain. Both he and his wife are now spreading their venom to acquaintances of ours. It seems like my son and his wife are a lethal combination. I really appreciate being able to get my thoughts out. It's cheaper than a therapy session!


No you don't deserve it! Your case sounds exactly like mine and so many others mom's I talked to since this has happened to me. From what I've found out is the more you try, the more you bring things up feeds and waters the monster!

I don't know where it all comes from nor why I just know it happens. My son's wife sent me the evil email that recounted stuff from my son's childhood, age 5 or so, and what she spewed was not "exactly" how is was but rather my son's version of how he wanted his wife to see it.

In my case, I feel that my son thinks he can get someone to love him, if they pity him enough. He tells some sob story to get attention then his wife for instance feels sorry for him and takes him in under her wing to nurture and protect from the big bad mommy. At this point they become a team and their relationship becomes based on hating mom. Don't mean to make you feel worse but chances are very good this marriage won't last, but never fear if he's like my son he will find another person to "love" pity him and round and round it goes.

I don't understand why any person would want their mate to HATE their mom, dad or any other family member. That's what I don't get. Wouldn't you want your spouse to like your family?

Again in my case it's been a very hard road to stop the brooding, crying and searching the internet for help. What you have to do is take care of yourself. Do what you have to in order for your heart to heal, and Do Not Feed The Bears!

I understand your frustration when they are spewing their accusations throughout the family. I'm a bit gun shy about that as well. Like now I really don't want my daughter to have anything to do with her brother since I see that it's his goal in life to make as many people hate me as possible. (It's how the "Bears" get their validation) I know that sounds terrible and I hate to admit that.

So far I've found that everything they (your son) is throwing at you is what they are hating about themselves. That doesn't help ease the pain much, but it's true.

I know you would love to let loose on them and give the a very large and very long piece of your mind, but again, abusers such as these will only use that as ammunition. It will become the current loaded gun, when the one they are using is out of ammo. Again, Do Not Feed The Bears!

You might get some comfort in knowing that one day soon he will be walking in your shoes! With any luck they will have a little boy, maybe four and will have coming to them exactly what you are receiving right now, only more of it! Take some comfort in knowing that their Hell is just beginning!

As you can see I'm still bitter and angry but at least at this point I'm sleeping.

Good luck to you and keep posting. The more you talk about it, the more you work through it.

You might get some comfort in knowing that one day soon he will be walking in your shoes! With any luck they will have a little boy, maybe four and will have coming to them exactly what you are receiving right now, only more of it! Take some comfort in knowing that their Hell is just beginning!

As you can see I'm still bitter and angry but at least at this point I'm sleeping.

Good luck to you and keep posting. The more you talk about it, the more you work through it.[/QUOTE]

I could understand everything that you wrote and agreed with most of it. The only thing that bothered me was the statement about getting comfort from your son suffering. You know how painful it is to be rejected by your child. How could you want this for anyone else, especially someone that you love? You admit that you are bitter and angry. So maybe this is clouding you thoughts. I pray that you release all the negative emotions, and find your peace within you. For your son, there is negative emotions in him too. Sounds like he doe not feel good enough about himself, doesn't think a woman can love him unless he has some sort of "hook" to real them in. Also gets a thrill from drama.
He feeds on it and seems to have found someone who thinks just like he does.

If you take comfort in looking forward to your son suffering the same way he has made you suffer you are in luck. You won't have to wait. He is suffering right now or he wouldn't be acting this way. It may not be your fault at all, but he is not a happy person in his core. You can't have a happy soul and be cruel and carry hatred at the same time.
I hope you both find peace and forgiveness.

Momo- it truly breaks my heart for you. I too thought I would never see my beautiful grandchild, although my situation was a little bit different than yours. But it really hurts. I too could not understand why my son was so hateful of me and blamed me for every little thing he thought was wrong with his childhood and his life. After our entire incident, I met him across the street at Walgreens, and his last words to me were- "call me when you get rid of that piece of ****" meaning his stepfather. Time has a way of working things out, and I truly believe that everything in life does happen for a reason. Sometimes it is very hard to understand. In my case, my son was 24 and living under my roof with a girlfriend and no job. The reason part in our case was that he needed to get out of my house and be on his own and be responsible for his life. In your case- is there any way at all that you can talk to your son- heart to heart- just the two of you? No matter what happens, he is still your son. And you are still his mother- the person who I am sure has been with him through thick and thin- always been there for him- am I right? It will take a lot of time I am sure- in my case it took a year- but if you keep trying to get through, I'm sure you eventually will. I NEVER gave up- and I know how hard it is. We love our kids and want to be there and help- but sometimes they make it very difficult. Sometimes they don't see how much we hurt and worry. I truly believe that in time he will come around. As hard as my son can sometimes act, I know there is compassion there- because a lot of it is just that- an act. -and after a while, when left on their own, they do think about it. But you need to try to talk to him on his own without her in the picture. In the meantime, do what I did- e-mail him, let him know how much you love him- and pray. Don't ever give up.

Hi Momo- I'm sorry I just answered you under my daughter's name- Angel Star without realizing. (she just walked in here and called me computer stupid, and I guess she's right) Anyway, I am under the name ksatagaj if you would like to e-mail me or just reply. I really hope you can resolve your issues with your son. It's a lot of hard work and sleepless nights, but if you can just find a way to talk to each other, I'm sure it will all work out in the end. You might not get to see him until after the baby is born, but believe me- having a baby does have a way of changing and maturing people. I did not get to meet my grandson till he was 3 months old- but I DID get to meet him is the part that has me awestruck every time I look at that beautiful face- or get to hug and kiss my son. And he still has some growing up to do of his own- but he has come such a long way that I am truly amazed by the changes ! He is on his way home now from Arizona for his son's first birthday and even though I know he is having a lot of problems, he has never once asked for a dime from me- far cry from the old days when I almost went broke trying to help him out. The bottom line is, I truly believe the same thing can happen for the two of you. If you try to reach out, and he still wants nothing to do with you, and least you will know in your heart that you tried- all you can do is give him time. He will come back. I will pray for you.:D

Thanks to all of you for your thoughts and prayers. I have been wondering if adult "Mom Haters" come from a 2 parent household or one? If there are two parents, does the son lash out at your husband and any siblings or just the Mom? My son has been raging at me exclusively since before he got married but really came to a head last Christmas. My husband and I celebrated our 40th anniversary in Maui Hawaii and took our daughter, son and daughter in law along. Nice family vacation right? It was a nightmare. My son started raging on his sister the moment we got there because she drove too fast (not true). He raged on the Tiki Terrace at our resort, again on the beach, in a parking lot coming back from dinner and again in our hotel room. During the whole trip they kept to themselves and didn't join in as a family until we all ate dinner together. Both acted like two spoiled brats and cannot tell you how embarrassed I was in public with my son raging. All I know is I wished we never invited them. No thanks for the trip, nothing. While raging, I asked them why they came when they obviously didn't want to be there. Their answer was they were still hurting from their previous miscarriage (not owning up to their bad behavior).
His Dad and I have tried several times to reach out to him via phone, email. Emails go unansered and after asking him what we can do to get our relationship back on track, he starts in raging again until we tell him we have to hang up. It's all so abusive!
My husband and daughter are fed up as well they should be. As far as I'm concerned, he is going to have to make the next move because we've had it up to here. I'm in my angry mode now after grieving for him. My therapist said I should be angry and also reinterated not to give him anymore information as he will use it against us. I just wish I can stop thinking of him 24-7.

The first thing that comes to mind is spoiled brat, married to another spoiled brat. AND I wouldn't doubt if they were having marital problems, Sounds like two very unhappy people or they wouldn't be in such a foul mood. Lay it out for him. We love you, we've been gracious and generous to you, we've extended our heart to you only to be treated with contempt. There is nothing you could do that would make us not love you. On the other hand , until you can treat us with the same dignity and respect we show you, we don't have anything to discuss.

When he rages to you on the phone, exactly what is his beef? What is he saying? Has he always had anger problems?

There is nothing YOU can do to get your relationship back on track. That is because YOU didn't get it off tract. Unless you can think of, or he tells you about some grievance that you aren't aware of.

Take comfort that you have done what you can. Pray that he finds his way to peace and to you and your husband. Ask for comfort and a peaceful acceptance of the situation as it stands. Think of him 24/7 . But think of him while praying for him. A person that is happy and content with their existence doesn't act this way.

This is why it is so baffling to us. Our son was always, fun, loving, respectful and appreciative. I would never have called him spoiled. All of this rage started soon after meeting his wife. His rages usually include: you don't love my wife, you're mean to her, you owe her an apology, "I don't remember you fixing breakfast for me when I was growing up" (I don't know where that one came from, I always did), he raged about the place we had the rehearsal dinner (Golf Club--very nice) because we didn't get his fiance's permission first (she was out of town at the time), his newest rage is he never wanted the engagement party we gave him when he was engaged by inviting her immediate family and his best friends who were standing up with him at the wedding, I'm a quilter and made my new daughter in law a quilt (his request) but now he says I only do that to show off. We did whatever was asked of us for the wedding and then some. We have treated our daughter in law with respect and kindness so I have never been able to figure out where all this is coming from. That's why I think my therapist may have hit on her being the manipulative one. I think she's very insecure and immature and can almost hear her saying to my son "your parents don't love me".. I think she feeds him her insecurities and I think he thinks he's being a supportive husband by ripping into us. I agree with you, I don't think he's happy but he would never admit it... it's easier to shift the blame on us. It's hard to say this but I wish they weren't bringing a child into the world right now.

I think you hit the nail on the head! Your daughter in law is very insecure and immature. All you can do unfortunately is to give this one time. My husband told me that before we met he had a girlfriend who wanted to be with him all the time- so much in fact that my mother-in law said she didn't even want him to be away from her to go to work ! And she used to get very jealous when he spent time with his friends- even if she was there- she would pout. That is what this sounds like- she is jealous of his family. Maybe he will see this in time. How long have they been married? And as far as bringing a child into the world, maybe it will change things- I know my son seemed to grow up quite a lot when he became a father. He still has quite a bit of growing up to do, but at least now he seems to be taking a bit more responsibility- and watching him with his son-----such love on his face! Things do seem to have a way of working out. Maybe you could talk to him by himself and get him to open up. If not, then maybe you just need to leave him alone- he will come to realize. Being a parent is one of the toughest jobs in the world, and he will find out for himself. He will come to you when he needs you. When my son and I were having problems, everyone told me the same thing, but I did not believe it. I know how stubborn he is. But in the end, he did make the first move. And I as always- was there. Let him know you are there for him, but until he can speak to you in a mature and civil way, he is on his own!

I knew it. The marriage is "teetering" and his unhappiness plus wife's criticism/insecurities/immaturity/selfishness is fueling the fire. You have heard that people sometimes take their frustrations out on the safest target.
That is people who will love them no matter what. I bet that is what your son is doing to you. Whatever you do, don't set up any sort of tuggle war with daughter-in-law. Kill her with kindness. She will either mature eventually or burn herself out. You on the other hand will have maintained your dignity, fairness, and gracious manner. Son WILL find his way back. I really believe that and will say a prayer for all of you.

My heart is shattered. My 30 year old son said he never wants to see or talk to me again. He has yelled and cursed at me to the top of his lungs telling me how horrible i am as a mother and a grandmother. He was always emotional as a child. in the last five years he has been horrible to me. When i asked why, he tells me to "Shut the F*** up', so I am afraid, he is unapproachable. He has NEVER been one to come over and visit. His sisters do with their children. Yes I have been to his home, but not enough , he says. He has joint custody of his children ( my grandchildren ) so I did not have them as often as my daughters children. He never calls only when he needs money, tho i have never said anything to him about that. He met a nice woman with a child and plans to marry her in august of this year. I am so heartbroken and depressed, I can't sleep, I cry all the time. My first son Died of S.I.D.S, and this son was a blessing and i love him so much. He has accused me of knowing of some very horrible things that supposedly went on when he was growing up. My daughters do not believe they are true, but they love me and their brother. I am beside myself with grief, it's as if he has died like my first son did. I have tried to find ways of letting him know how much i love him and the kids and his wife to be, but my calls and emails fall on deaf ear.
I don't know if i can go on. it hurts too much, it hurts thru my heart and soul. If there were any truth to what he has accused me of, i would confess and apologize and do whatever i had to do for my son. What is a mother to do? I can't funtion and I can't go on this way.:( :confused:
I am so sorry this sounds horrible. It does not sound like you should go to him because, he has some rage for some reason and sounds like he is taking it out on you. I think you need to give him space to deal with whatever he is going through. I think that you should send him an email telling him how much you love him and his family and that you wish you could be more of a part of there life. Tell him you will always love him and be there if he ever decides to change his mind. Tell him you will miss them all but, you can't make him change his mind. Then just say you will miss them if he ever wants to try to work through what he is upset about then you will be there but, other than that you will give him the space he requests. After that just send them cards on the Holidays. He will probably come around on his own.

Good luck,
Michelle

They will be married 3 yrs this July. My therapist thinks that she is one of those that wants him all to herself. He thinks we were doomed from the beginning. First his dogs came to live with us, then didn't invite my daughter in their wedding. Therapist thinks that was a very concise move on her part to start eliminating his family. Now, we are out of their lives and the therapist thinks his long time friends will probably be next. From what we've heard from some of his friends is that he has changed. These friends have been together since middle school, through college and marriages.
My daughter in law has a very strong pull towards her own family. They are all she talks about to us. Sometimes I wonder if her grandiose thoughts of her family is more of a fantasy of how they really are or if it's how she wishes it to be. Her family seems very nice but who really knows what goes on behind closed doors? Like I said in my earlier post, we only met with her about 3 times before they married so I can't say we really knew her. We were happy for our son to have found someone he loved. We thought she was perfect for our son and she put on a good front but I'm really questionning her now. Since my therapist brought up the possibility of her being the manipulative one, it seems to fit what has been going on with our son.

My heart is shattered. My 30 year old son said he never wants to see or talk to me again. He has yelled and cursed at me to the top of his lungs telling me how horrible i am as a mother and a grandmother. He was always emotional as a child. in the last five years he has been horrible to me. When i asked why, he tells me to "Shut the F*** up', so I am afraid, he is unapproachable. He has NEVER been one to come over and visit. His sisters do with their children. Yes I have been to his home, but not enough , he says. He has joint custody of his children ( my grandchildren ) so I did not have them as often as my daughters children. He never calls only when he needs money, tho i have never said anything to him about that. He met a nice woman with a child and plans to marry her in august of this year. I am so heartbroken and depressed, I can't sleep, I cry all the time. My first son Died of S.I.D.S, and this son was a blessing and i love him so much. He has accused me of knowing of some very horrible things that supposedly went on when he was growing up. My daughters do not believe they are true, but they love me and their brother. I am beside myself with grief, it's as if he has died like my first son did. I have tried to find ways of letting him know how much i love him and the kids and his wife to be, but my calls and emails fall on deaf ear.
I don't know if i can go on. it hurts too much, it hurts thru my heart and soul. If there were any truth to what he has accused me of, i would confess and apologize and do whatever i had to do for my son. What is a mother to do? I can't funtion and I can't go on this way.:( :confused:
I know this is a late response but sweetie listen. You are still his Mother and he needs to respect this (Exdous 20:12 Honor your father and mother so that you may live long in the land that the Lord your God is giving you) There is a time when you have to let things go and put them in God's hand, and this is a time to do it. You can't change the way he feels, but God can. Each day he is disrespecting you, he is shorten his days. Call to see the kids from time to time or even go over, (they are your grandkids) but as soon as he starts to curse and fuss, ask can the kids go with you or cut the visit short and let him know you are taking it anymore. I am in deep prayer for you and I hope this work out for the best. Just let go and let GOD!!

Your friend in christ!!

No, I haven't been having trouble with the site. Just a lot of things going on personally. I did go back to therapy for a tune-up last week. I go back now and then whenever I'm having a hard time adjusting to our son dropping out of our lives. I've gone through so many emotions and now I feel I am working through it but it still hurts. I am thankful that he was in our lives for 33 years before meeting his wife, so I'm grateful for that. They are having a baby Sept. 1st but we don't have any hopes of being in our 1st Granchild's life. I'm trying to look towards the future without him but you know, it's like he died and I need to go on.

No, I haven't been having trouble with the site. Just alot of things going on personally. I did go back to therapy for a tune-up last week. I go back now and then whenever I'm having a hard time adjusting to our son dropping out of our lives. I've gone through so many emotions and now I feel I am working through it but it still hurts. I am thankful that he was in our lives for 33 years before meeting his wife, so I'm grateful for that. They are having a baby Sept. 1st but we don't have any hopes of being in our 1st Granchild's life. I'm trying to look towards the future without him but you know, it's like he died and I need to go on. I REALLY feel for you! This could have been written by me last year. It IS hard- you feel like you will not get through it. But you know what ? You WILL get through it! It is not easy- there is not much you can do but give it time. In my case, I just e-mailed my son almost every day. I started by writing to him- every single thing I wrote he or his girlfriend managed to take wrong and twist my words. Or I went to his job- also pointless. What I am trying to say is you can do everything you think might help you get back together and talk things through, but ultimately, your son has to be the one to come to you. It took a year in my case- and to this day still don't know what made him pick up the phone, and really don't care- the point is he did. And none of us really talk about it- the past is the past. I pray for you that one day your son will see through what games his wife is playing and you can both move on. I think that maybe one of the things that did get to my son was my asking him 1. How long he was going to punish me? 2. How can you not let me be part of my grandson's life ? Not fair to him either (my grandson). I know it is not what you want to hear- I wish there was a quick, easy solution to end all the problems with our kids, but all you can do is give it time. With time hopefully he will come to see that his wife is part of the problem. Family is the most important thing in the world- and by wedging herself in between you and him, she will end up by driving him away. They will argue, and the whole family thing inevitably will come up- and maybe then he will begin to see things for himself. My heart goes out to you- it was one short year ago that I went through pretty much the same thing, and I know how lonely it is- and if you have done everything for your kids and loved them and been there for them (as all mothers who love their children do)- there is nothing you can do but know he will be back when he is ready. And I know that day will come. Keep me posted. I will pray for you.

I think you just saved me. Seriously, I was wondering if anyone was going threw what I am now. You words gave me some hope and a few clues on how to start dealing with my son.

It's late and I just took a sleeping pill so I will be brief but to the point.

My 20 y/o son has been lying to me and our family for a few years now. Only the lies crossed any decency lines I thought we had. Just in the past two months he and his new wife have borrowed 2700.00 because they were about to be evicted. I had to call the manager and make sure that wasn't a lie. They both have jobs and shouldn't be in trouble but they blow their money I know they do. It's that the lies are huge and small and just one lie after the other. Now his new wife has started lying to me too. We are going out to visit them soon; but your right I need to treat myself like a friend. I need to start saying no and meaning it. My story is complex and so sad that if I tell it I will begin to cry again and I just can't cry anymore. He is accusing his half sister of molesting him and she has not been the most honest person either. In short either of them could be lying. After visiting my son and his wife we have to go to her wedding and this whole molesting issue has not been resolved. Yet I am doing everything in my power to try to make time on our vacation for just me and my husband. Who wants to get cheap hotel rooms and do the cut rate vacation. He is just cheap sometimes; and this is one time he should dish out the cash for a decent night sleep, and a nice time for both of us. So now I have been angry with what seems like the whole family. Honest I have seriously thought about going back to school and starting a whole new life for myself and leaving the lot of them behind. I have been loving and caring and been there for each of them. This mess however pushed me past my limits and I let them all know how angry I was. Now they all are really mad at me; and I don't think I care. Your letter shows me that it is OK to take care of me so thank you for that. I don't know what I will do but I think going back to school is something that I really must do now. I always thought it was going to be for the betterment of the whole family now I see it might be needed just for me. I love them but I don't like them right now. Not sure this will ever be OK. So I pray and hope.
Mainly I just wish I would wake up from this nightmare. Life was pretty decent a few months ago. Now it's just garbage.