My husband did painting for our dentist. It was agreed verbally under the table. No written contract. We received a 1099 for work. Dentist said his accountant saw checks written and sent 1099. Because there was no contract, the dentist would have had to go in my husband's medical file for his social security number. Isnt't this a violation of the hippa law. They provided patient information to a "business associate"?

It is not a violation of HIPAA law as HIPAA law deals with illness and medical treatments.

Had this person gone into your husband's file and told your husband's best friend that your husband was being treated for something like oral cancer, then yes, that would be a violation of HIPAA laws.

Are you sure? According to dhhs website providing info to a business assoc. is a vioation.
I would take that to mean anything that may come out of a patients file

Yup, I'm sure. I deal with HIPAA on a fairly regular basis.

Here you go...

What does the HIPAA Privacy Rule do? (http://www.hhs.gov/hipaafaq/about/187.html)

HIPAA, is called the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act... it deals solely with release of health information.

So, a medical professional can pass on patient info to a business associate (namely their accountant) if it's not medical info. Are there no ethics laws? I don't owe them money, they're screwing me.

Let's keep it all in the same thread, okay.

Now, what the dentist's assistant did may not have been ethical, but it was not a HIPAA violation.

I, as a nurse, cannot pass on information to my friend, who is a nurse at another hospital, about a patient I treated. However, the billing department, can send info to the insurance company... Medical records can send copies of records to other care providers of that particular patient.

You see, there was no exchange of medical information from the provider to an outsider. Only the social security number was given for tax purposes.

As an example...

If you were to come into my office for a pregnancy test, and it came out positive... I cannot tell anyone, not even your husband without your consent. HOWEVER, I can bill your insurance company, using medical billing, that would show that you had a pregnancy test. So your insurance company would know you had the test, just not the results.

Getting a 1099 in the mail does not mean you owe them money. It means you can claim this on taxes. This is more of a tax question than it is a medical issue.

Its not patient information its medical information that's a problem. Nothing was said about your husband's condition or treatment, hence no violation.

OK j9 when you bill my insurance carrier, I have signed authorization for you to do so. When dentist went in my file to provide his accountant with my social number, he did so for his personal gain and without my consent. Had he not been my familty dentist, he wouldn't have had this info. Would he?

You are asking us for advice, why won't you accept the answer. Why areyou fishing for this? What do you think you will get if it is a violation?

when dentist went in my file to provide his accountant with my social number, he did so for his personal gain and without my consent. had he not been my familty dentist, he wouldn't have had this info. would he??

Violated,

What would he have to gain from this? What personal gain?

Had he not been your family dentist he still would have had this info, when you fill out the new patient form you supply that info.

He's getting a tax break, when it was already agreed he was getting a great deal by going private instead of commercial.

What I'm fishing for, is an answer in my favor. I would like this to cost him, as much as it is now costing us. I am a blue collar worker trying to make a living. Not a high priced dentist out to screw the little guy. He must me a democrat. Oh, and he is not our family dentist any longer.

Okay, well when it comes to HIPAA you won't get an answer in your favor as there was no violation committed. Sorry, there just wasn't.

Now, instead of going off half-cocked... Have you contacted the dentist regarding this? Could this have been an oversight that could be easily corrected?

Tried that route. He would not return my calls. He knows he's scum

I'm very sorry this happened to you. However, again, it's not a HIPAA violation.

Again, it is very unethical, but not a violation.

Ok, I think I begin to understand. Your husband and your former dentist entered into an agreement for him to do some painting off the books. In other words your husband was trying to cheat Uncle Sam out of tax income. Then the dentist's accountant, when doing his books noticed the payments so he issued a 1099 for them. So you seem to think the dentist is now getting a tax break while your husband is screwed. So you are grasping at straws to find some way to punish the dentist.
Sorry, but the answer you are going to get is one that's factual, we aren't going to tell you what you want to hear when its not the right answer.

Yes the dentist now gets to apply the painting expense against his taxes and your husband can't cheat the govt and hide the income. So he has to pay taxes on that income.

But there is no evidence that medical information was given out without permission. That and ONLY that would constitute a HIPAA violation.

Next time, make sure your husband doesn't try to cheat the gov't.

I don't think the dentist is scum, I just think he has an accountant who was too conscientious in doing the books. I suspect the dentist is not returning your calls, because he's embarrassed by what happened. That doesn't make him scum, at least not any more than someone who tries to cheat the gov't.

Ah, now I understand too. Only your husband was being unethical by trying to cheat the government. The accountant found it, and saved the dentist a ton of money and possibly even his license.

Oh, I guess I forgot to say. My husband paid 5 other men plus expenses. He is not a licensed contractor, only a guy trying to give our dentist good work for less money (which he was all about at the time) and make a couple of dollars for some blue collar workers and ourselves. So you two have never had someone do work at your home under the table so you could get it it cheaper? Don't lie. Let us all be truthful. Most of us pay taxes, and boy do we. So when we can get a little extra, we do . Even the most honest people are looking for the bargain. This was not about them worrying about uncle sam, they were looking at their tax bracket.

so you two have never had someone do work at your home under the table so you could get it it cheaper? don't lie. let us all be truthful. most of us pay taxes, and boy do we. so when we can get a little extra, we do . even the most honest people are looking for the bargain. this was not about them worrying about uncle sam, they were looking at their tax bracket.

Nope, I do the work myself. I can't afford to pay ANYONE with my student's salary, which is zip, zero, nada.

Yes, I look for a bargain, but I look for a legal bargain. I am not into tax evasion nor would I ever be. I am a law abiding citizen.

I'm sorry your husband got caught trying to evade taxes, maybe he learned his lesson.

I can honestly say I have never paid for work under the table. But I really think the real problem here was the accountant, not the dentist. But the issue is really moot at this point.

So neither of you owns a home, had a friend replace your breaks on your bucket, a hair dresser cut your hair in your home, bought weed? Are you smoking now? Hey law abiding citizen, have you had a tutor? Are you a tutor making money to get you through when your parents won't? Believe me, I'm years older and have paid my taxes since starting working. One day, when you grow up, someone will tell you about a great painter that will paint your home cheaper and better than that big bucks company, and you will jump on it. You know why? Because you will be trying to pay your bills and put your childrent through college.

Yes I own my own home and I doubt if you are much older than I, if at all. And, again, I have never paid under the table for anything.

What bothers me about your posts, is you are so morally outraged that the dentist reneged on your deal, that you want to try any ruin him, but you are totally comfortable with trying to hide some income from the gov't.

Get over it already. You were told the honest truth here. I don't believe people are trying to deceive you or hide something from you or protect anyone else.

I don't believe everyone is out there looking for the back door to get their various jobs done. I hire someone to fix my truck and pay them. I hire someone to come and repair my dryer and pay them. If I am tutoring the neighbor's daughter from across the street, I am paid for it. I don't fall for the "great painter that will paint your home cheaper and better than that big bucks company." That sounds and smells like a fish.

so neither of you owns a home, had a friend replace your breaks on your bucket, a hair dresser cut your hair in your home, bought weed? are you smoking now?. hey law abiding citizen, have you had a tutor? are you a tutor making money to get you through when your parents won't? believe me, i'm years older and have paid my taxes since starting working. one day, when you grow up, someone will tell you about a great painter that will paint your home cheaper and better than that big bucks company, and you will jump on it. you know why? because you will be trying to pay your bills and put your childrent through college.

I do own a home. My husband works to pay for it. Had a friend replace breaks on my car? Nope, only a licensed mechanic. Hairdresser cut my hair, yeah, my sister in law is a hairdresser. Nope, never bought weed. Quit smoking cigarettes 3 weeks ago.

Have I had a tutor? Yup, and been one too. We fill out W4 forms for the government, for tax purposes. My parents wouldn't have paid for my college anyway. My father is dead and my mother is in her 70s.

Honey, I bet you I am older than you, or at least close to your age. My husband owns his own company, we have several accountants so that one can catch what another misses.

I have 2 grown children, put them through college and they are now in the military. Just waiting on the 14 year old and the 6 year old.

Regardless, I am still a law abiding citizen. Heck, I've been a legal assistant and a paralegal, but have never seen the inside of a courtroom.

Honey, I am grown up. I think when you grow up you will realize that you have to play by the rules.

I'm not trying to ruin him. Just a taste of his own medicine. Don't forget, he was all for this when he got the price for the work. So we all have moral issues. Quite frankly I don't believe you've never gone the other way. It's probably something you deem so unimportant, it doesn't come to mind now. Think long and hard. Just because you asked forgiveness, doesn't mean it didn't happen. Especially living in ny with your taxes, scottgem, you have to be looking for a better way. After all, you have the mafia.

And it well could be that once the account fround it, most will not cheat or lie on the tax forms. But then I would like to believe most people claim the money they make cutting grass, doing odd jobs and other cash incomes. I make money from a dozen sourse, but will claim all of them

And it well could be that once the account fround it, most will not cheat or lie on the tax forms. but then I would like to beleive most people claim the money they make cutting grass, doing odd jobs and other cash incomes. I make money from a dozen sourse, but will claim all of them


To say nothing of the fact that lots of people on this thread are licensed by the State and insured - I'm not losing my license for some back street side job and a couple of bucks.

Amazing that people who take this avenue justify it by "assuming" that everyone would make the same (dumb) choices.

especially living in ny with your taxes, scottgem, you have to be looking for a better way. afterall, you have the mafia.

Sure I'm always looking for a better way, but it has to be a LEGAL way. As to the rest of that comment its not worth dignifying with an asnwer.

I think this thread isn't really about the possible HIPAA violation, but I thought I'd pop in and maybe clear up some of the confusion. I've been working in the healthcare insurance industry for about six years.

J_9 is right, there is no HIPAA violation without health information. The SSN would be a factor if there was also medical data transmitted. HIPAA law talks about transmitting Identified Protected Health Information, meaning, information about your diagnosis, treatment, prescriptions, etc that also includes information that could identify you (like your SSN). Here's a cite (http://privacy.med.miami.edu/glossary/xd_protected_health_info.htm).

So, violated, if it was only the SSN that was involved, say if the dentist went into your file to get the SSN for his accountant, there's no HIPAA violation. There could be a potential HIPAA violation if the dentist handed over your entire file, complete with health information and identifying information, to his accountant. But, how can you prove that was the case?

Hope that helps..
S