Hello,

I had my basement renovated last year and the problem lies in the water pipe making loud humming and vibrating noise when I use turn on the hot water in the shower.

Here's how I reproduce the issue quite often in the shower.

1.) Turn on the shower and let it run (duration is irrelevant)
2.) Turn shower off
3.) Turn shower back on (to hot water), it starts to make that loud humming/vibrating noise.

Now if I flush the toilet, then the noise stops and the water pressure immediately increases. I should say that initially the water pressure is lower than normal.

Does anybody know what might be wrong? Thanks!

A loose washer, probably in the cold water shower valve, assuming a two handle shower valve. If you have a stop valve in the cold water line going to that bath, it could be there.

Thanks for the quick reply, hkstroud.
I have a single handle shower valve for both hot and cold water.

I have some pics if that helps:

http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/9217/dscf0052zt7.jpg
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/1191/dscf0053bj0.jpg
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/759/dscf0054xh8.jpg
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/2488/dscf0055ky2.jpg
http://img219.imageshack.us/img219/6254/dscf0056pz8.jpg

I'd also like to mention that after I flush the toilet and the noise stops, the water pressure goes back to low after maybe 30-45 seconds.

Does shower have any kind of temperature or pressure balancing feature? Suggest that you isolate that Pex pipe from metal stud, could cause leak 10 years from now. Could also be source of hum.

AFAIK, the shower does not have any kind of temperature/pressure balancing feature.

Fh:
You can post images directly under "go advanced".

The pipes don't look secure. They need to be supported. Get the noise started and try to stop the noise by holding the pipe. Then you'll know which pipe to secure. The pipe seems close to the metal stud.

While you ar securing the lines I suggest that you check any stop valve you may have on the cold water line for a loose washer. If that does not stop the water fluxation back flush the cold water line at the shower valve.

Get the noise started and try to stop the noise by holding the pipe.
KISS just gave you the trick we use to track down noise and vibration only we use a light touch and attempt to track it back. The more intense the vibration the closer you are to the source. Good luck, Tom

While you ar securing the lines I suggest that you check any stop valve you may have on the cold water line for a loose washer. If that does not stop the water fluxation back flush the cold water line at the shower valve.

How would I check the stop valves for a loose washer?

The white pipe in the picture is the hot water pipe and it vibrates. But the noise is much louder than mere vibration; almost like a horn.

The way the white tubing is asking for it. Any pulsation is going to move it against the metal stud a large distance and eventually you'll end up with a leak.

I'd consider two things:
1. Use a grommet. The metal is going to abrade the tube. http://b-line.com/pdf/Flyers/BA172F.pdf
2. Use a copper riser and elbow and meet the white tube horizontal.

The way the white tubing is asking for it. Any pulsation is going to move it against the metal stud a large distance and eventually you'll end up with a leak.

I'd consider two things:
1. Use a grommet. The metal is going to abrade the tube. http://b-line.com/pdf/Flyers/BA172F.pdf
2. Use a copper riser and elbow and meet the white tube horizontal.

Thanks for the suggestion, appreciate it :) Temporarily I have put some foam around the pipe which is inhibiting it from getting in direct contact with the metal stud.

Remove bonnet or packing nut of stop valve, remove the stem and tighten the washer screw. Tighten even if it does not appear loose. If hum still exist I would cut copper of cold water line to shower valve, temporarily add short piece of hose to pipe with clamp, point hose into bucket, turn on hot water set shower diverter to shower head. This should flush out any debris in the shower valve which will probably be a solder form soldering copper joints. If you have the tools you may want to just cut PEX piping and reconnect. If you have any solder joints upstream from the stop valve, the problem could be solder in the stop valve.

I suspect you have solder in cold water side of shower valve. I suspect cold water side because volumn is affected by toilet. I suspect shower valve, because vibration is being transmitted to hot water piping.

Thanks, hkstroud. I would still do as you suggested if the cold water in my shower works absolutely fine (good pressure and no noise) and just happens with the hot water, correct?

To some extent this is a guessing game. Do one side, if that doesn't work do the other. I'm thinking cold because flushing the toilet causes a change. However the reduced water pressure in the cold side could change the water flow in the hot side if the shower valve is set mid range.

One of the basic problems could be that the pipes were not attached to any of the studs, thus they move freely. Just about any home improvement show focuses on this problem, as the "shaking and banging" that you hear, the problem can only be solved by removing either all the drywall, or locating the area the sound is coming from, then remove the drywall in that area. Attach pipe brackets and reattach drywall.
This is more so when the water is shut off rather then when running.

Ok thanks, I will try looking at the pipes then.

I tried tightening the washer screw, but it still happens. What's strange is even after I tighten it in either direction, the water flow and mixture remains the same.

Also, this only happens when the water comes out of the shower head. When I let the water flow from the shower faucet, it never makes any noise and water pressure is very good.
I doubt the shower head itself is faulty since it works perfect with cold water only.
Might it be something between the shower head pipe and the water diverter/stop valve?

Secure the copper line going to the shower in 2-3 places.

Ok, I just noticed that I completely forgot to mention this, but in the shower, the tub faucet works perfect. It never makes any sound and has consistent pressure. Only when I lift the "blocker" where the water then has to be diverted upwards to the upper "faucet". Now considering this new clue: Could something be wrong with my diverter? Tub faucet? Pipes? Thanks!

The white pipe is touching the copper pipe. The copper pipe is unsupported.

Open the diverter and grab the copper pipe going to the shower head with your hand. Does the noise stop?

Thanks for the reply!
I tried holding the copper pipe, but the noise doesn't fade nor change much. Also, when this noise/sound occurs, the water pressure drops significantly.

Again, the issue looks to be high pressure. Your water system would be better if you had a pressure arrester placed near the water meter. Depending on the time of day, water is less pressurized then others, as the water department adjust for the demand needed.
The fact that you have a humming noise still looks to be a issue with pipes vibrating due in part to not being secured properly. Possibly from the diverter to the shower head.

Good luck

Let's try two tests:

1) You hold the shower pipe while someone else opens the diverter.
2) Measure the water pressure: Water Pressure Gauge 0-160 - Heavy Duty - Mfg# 4106731 (http://www.professionalequipment.com/water-pressure-gauge-0-160-heavy-duty-4106731/water-pressure-gauges/)
3) A water hammer arrester might help as well. "MINI-RESTER" WATER HAMMER ARRESTER 660-TR SIOUX CHIEF (http://www.acehardwaresuperstore.com/minirester-water-hammer-arrester-p-75746.html?ref=42)
Look at the mfr's website for more info.

On this page, you'll find stuff labeled ceiling flange and split pipe supports. These use 3/8 rod and a few nuts to lock the threaded rod to support pipes. This is how you can support the pipe going to the shower head. I do believe HD and Lowe's carry them.

For the water pressure gauge, I would need to place it between the diverter and the pipe leading to the shower head? I'll need to do some research to find out how (what materials I need) to cut & resolder the pipe.

No, you want to look at the house pressure. Should be about 55 PSI. The easiest place to temporarily connect is to a hose bib at a laundry sink, or outside faucet and even the drain of the water heater. I thought you would recognize that in the link. You can check house pressure anywhere.

Now if I flush the toilet, then the noise stops and the water pressure immediately increases. I should say that initially the water pressure is lower than normal.

I'm looking at your above statement again. When you flush the toilet, the amount of cold water will decrease, so the amount of hot has to decrease to maintain the same temperature if the valve is temperature regulating. If it's not temperature regulating, then you should get a larger flow of warm water when the toilet is flushed.

Give me an idea of the relative position of the temperature setting as you are taking your shower. Do you have to fiddle with it during your shower? Is it near the hot position nearly all the time? Can you throttle back the cold supply to the shower? Do you know the model number of the mixing valve? Is a URL handy for an online version of the instructions?

I'm attacking from another angle.

The handle moves from -90 to about 80 degrees. I put the handle on 10 degrees so that it mixes hot and cold water.
When it makes that noise, I just move the handle below 0 degrees, then the noise immediately goes away since no hot water comes out then.
The entire shower kit was purchased from Rona, a Canadian home improvement store.
By mixing valve, you mean the gold/bronze-coloured device where all the pipes go into? Or do you mean the handle? On the oval metal plate, it says Branze, which I assume is the brand.

Are those screwdriver looking things in image 055 valves? There seems to be no way to adjust or move.

Is there hot and cold supply stops somewhere for the shower?

Where do you define 0 degrees. Use a clock. Can I assume the 12 o'clock position.

The valve turning is just temperature, right?

Yes, those are valves in image 055 and I can adjust them by taking off the oval plate from inside the shower.
Those can be adjusted though I am dumbfounded as to why nothing happens. I tried turning them both in one extreme direction and then in the other, but noticed no change.

As for the degrees, 0 degrees would be 6 o'clock and 80 degrees would be 1 o'clock.


The valve turning is just temperature, right?
Are you referring to the main shower handle? Or?

Yep, the temperature valve.

I think you need to find out what's in/not in those valves. I hope there is another way to turn off water to the shower.

What do you think, hk?

This is so strange and been going on so long I would not exclude anything at this point, including the shower head. Remove the shower head, inspect and make sure everything is clear. Turn on water to shower and run for several minutes with the head removed.

Did you ever black flush the valve. I would also remove the cartridge and flush out the valve. If problem persist I don't think you have any choice but to back flush the valve. To me it sounds like a piece of solder in the valve that requires a certain volume and pressure to vibrate. Temperature may even have something to do with it. This vibration is probably amplified by the metal studs of the wall.

After that you will probably have to consider if there is something unique about the valve it self that causing the vibration.

I have the same situation with the hum in the water pipes, running the shower, and flushing the toilet. HOWEVER, my pipes hum every time the water is turned on. The hum is extremely loud. You can hear it humming while in the shower, over the sound of the water running. It hummed when my hall bathroom toilet flapper was leaking, so it would kick on to refill the tank and bring it up to level and hum. I replaced the flapper. But sometimes at night my ice maker will kick on and that will cause it to hum. Everyone that comes to my house for the first time and uses the bathroom asks me why my house is humming.

I have a relatively new house, 3 yrs old, with blue pex for the cold water coming in from the meter. The house has a 4 foot crawl space underneath so I have been under there, and the cold water line hums and vibrates right where the pressure valve is. I just NOW turned on the water, went under the house and started grabbing the water line in various places. I found if I squeeze the line right above the pressure valve all the humming stopped. I'm talking LOUD humming, it has about driven me crazy! I found that if I squeezed the line a few inches above the valve I really had to put a grip on it. If I squeezed it right at the connection it didn't take as much pressure. So I ended up getting a 2x2 piece of wood and putting it between my foundation block and the line. There is just enough room to squeeze it in without putting undue stress on the connection. I had to push it down to meet the white connector crimped onto the pex and brass connector that went to the valve. Voilà... NO MORE HUM. I came back in, turned the water off and thought I had it solved. But when I flushed the toilet, it hummed again. I am getting that valve and that connection replaced. I believe the water line needs some type of vent too. Has anyone heard of pex humming if improperly vented?

Water supply pipes are not vented. Either the pressure reducing valve is defective or has trash or debris in it. Some PRV's have a screens in them that can be removed and cleaned.

When you pressed the line you stopped the line from vibrating. That stopped the sound. That did not stop what ever is vibrating inside the valve from vibrating. Vibration will probably change with volume of water flow.

Sounds more like a defective valve than debris in valve.