Hello,

I am a young woman that bought and lived in a house in Florida. Following my dreams to come back to NY I decided to rent my house out instead of selling, just in case I needed some place to come back to if it didn't work out.

So comes along my tenant... an older man that doesn't work and has issues. Mainly about my house. It is an older house and I have fixed things in it for him that will bring no value to my house, just because he wants it, trying to work with him. But no matter what I do, he always finds more. Twice appliance people I've sent over there have called me telling me he is nuts and there is nothing to be fixed and charged me for a service fee.

I found a handyman that fixed all of the things agreed with he moved in July. He told me this guys is never going to be happy and I should try and get him out of the house. There is a clause in the contract that says he can leave when ever he wants. The problem is he doesn't want to leave, he just wants to give me a hard time about what I need to do in the house. He sends me emails detailing everything in the house is broken. When I send some one over there, he complains that their not techs, not a real handman, blah blah blah

Can I ignore his complaints? Can I ask him to leave? If we signed a year lease, I don't have to let him rent another year, right? Do I have to give him notice? What would you do?


I want this to be as painless as possible. I would hire a lawyer if I needed to. He is driving me to drink...

Any advice is greatly appreciated
TIA
Tara

First send him a letter detailing every complaint he has sent you and everything you have done in response to those complaints. Then say that he is obviously unhappy with the house and that you are willing to let him out of his lease right now without any penalty. Finally, say that if he does not choose to leave now, then you will not be renewing his lease when it expires. Send two copies of the letter; one by regular mail and one by certified mail, return receipt requested.

Start building a paper trail. Every time you communicate with him, do it in writing. If the two of you speak on the phone, follow it up with a letter confirming the contents of the conversation.

We've been communicating through emails and I have already detailed every one of his complaints and he still comes back with more and tells me I'm making excuses. I've already said "he is obviously unhappy with the house and that you are willing to let him out of his lease right now without any penalty." and he continues to tell me what I have to do.

The only thing I haven't flat out said was "i will not be renewing his lease when it expires" which I will say in the next email.

Do you know if it's a good idea to get a lawyer if decides to not pay? He has been waiting until the 5, 6, 7th to pay. He even says he is going to make the improvements and deduct that from the rent, which I know is a law and I tell him he cannot do that.

I think you should speak to an attorney now. If he is threatening to make "improvements" and deduct them from the rent then you should take action immediately to prevent it.

You need to contact a professional property manager near your NJ home and hand EVERYTHING over to them... a pro PM will know how to handle the situation, how to handle the end of the lease AND how to get a new, higher paying tenant which will allow for less worries on your part.

I think Cville meant your Florida house, but that suggestion is a good one. It may cost you a percentage of the rent, but that may be worth getting this headache off your back and may be less expensive than a lawyer.

If the lease calls for payment to be made on the first and he is habitually late, that may be grounds to evict.

I suspect this guy saw a young woman, inexperienced as a landlord and decided to take advantage.

Another thing I would do is document what the appliance service people told you and inform him that if that happens again, you will be deducting those service charges from his deposit. That's if you don't decide to turn the property over to a PM.

Yes, having a home in another state is hard. If you wish to keep the rental there, you may want to consider having a real estate company manage it for you.

Allow his current lease to expire and don't renew it. Keep in mind that you are only responsible for structural items and built-in types of appliances. You are not responsible for his personal property. As long as such things are kept functional and in repair it really doesn't matter if he's happy or not as he will have no legal recourse against you. Frankly he sounds like just a bunch of hot air to me.

Thank you all so much for your comments. It cleared up a lot for me. I will take your advice and I greatly appreciate it

Hello to all you advisors. And to my landlady Tara, whom you can thank for this post since she sent me this link to show me what she has been up to. I am "the older man". I will be very brief. Is a dryer that takes 80 minutes to dry underwear or 100 minutes to do sheets or 120 minutes to do towels a good dryer? It makes the electric meter spin just as fast as one that could dry in half the time. How about windows that do not close right and screens that do not cover windows, is that OK too? How about repairs that took 3 months to do. Don't believe every young woman with a dreams' story. She bought a 37 year old house (not for rental) that was not well taken care of, lived in it for 4 years and did not even fix basic things and then followed her dream to go back to New York leaving the house filthy and stuff all over the place for the tenant to take care of. That's just for starters. I won't go on. Will someone please tell Tara about how rentals work where she lives, in NYC. I am a nice guy wanting a decent place to live, that is all. I worked my whole life and now am trying to get disability after losing my own house. I just want what is fair. Houses need work sometimes. Things break. Thanks for listening. :)

Hello Sam:

Couple things. It's confusing when you piggyback on someone else's question. I'm sure it'll be moved shortly.

Next thing, really is YOU. Oh, I understand that your post is about Tara. But, it's really more about you.

I understand Tara isn't a good business person. You could tell from the beginning, however, that she wasn't. The signs were obvious. You moved in anyway. I don't know why. You've been there four years, and you haven't figured her out by now? She's not going to change. You can't make her into a good business person if she doesn't want to be.

Nope, you can't do anything about HER at all. All you can do is move. Maybe you'll investigate your new landlord better.

excon

I understand Tara isn't a good business person. You could tell from the beginning, however, that she wasn't. The signs were obvious. You moved in anyway. I dunno why. You've been there four years, and you haven't figured her out by now? She's not going to change. You can't make her into a good business person if she doesn't want to be.

Nope, you can't do anything about HER at all. All you can do is move. Maybe you'll investigate your new landlord better.

excon

Just wanted to clear this up... I lived in the house for 4 years before, Sam moved in July. And the repairs he is talking about were promised by a "friend" that didn't come through for a couple of months and I found someone else that did the repairs.

Hello again, you two:

I get it now. I'm old too, Sam. But, my advice isn't any different.

excon

Well Sam, You have presented us with a he said/she said situation. I believe we HAVE told tara that she needs to learn about being a landlord. That's why the suggestion to hire a property manager.

What bothers me about your side of the story is the alleged testimony of the repair people. Tara cites two service people that claimed there was nothing wrong. She also stated that she had a handy man make all the repairs you requested prior to your moving in. Is she lying about those things?

And, if you are so unhappy with the way the way the house has been kept up or the way Tara has handled being a landlord, then why not move? She is willing to let you out of the lease but you have refused.

I'm sorry, but in a choice of whether to believe your account or Tara's, I'm going to go with Tara's.

Hello again:

Well, this is interesting. I don't think we've ever had both party's online with us. That is very cool. I actually think we have a shot a mediating the situation. Neither of you seem like nutcases (so far).

I don't care who said what, and who did what, and who's the bad guy here. There's enough confusion, and time, and bad blood, and stuff to be impossible to figure it out. I'm sure you're BOTH bad guys. Ok, Tara needs to learn to be a better landlord (we know that), and you Sam need to be a better tenant (I know that).

The good news is that this thing hasn't gone into the toilet yet. Believe me, we've seen that stuff here where even if we got both people online, one has screwed the other over so bad that reconciliation is impossible.

That isn't the case here.

So, what are you going to do to make the situation better, Tara? You too Sam?

Don't tell us what the other guy did. That's “stinkin thinkin”. Tell us how you propose to fix it.

Dr. Phil

Well, this is interesting. I don't think we've ever had both party’s online with us. That is very cool. I actually think we have a shot a mediating the situation. Neither of you seem like nutcases (so far).


Actually we have had both sides on a few occasions. But maybe we can mediate this. Be interesting to try.

Hi Excon. I think you misunderstood. I have only been here for seven months. She bought this house in 2003 and lived in it until 07/2007. I knew it needed work and believed her when she told me she would take care of things. Life is rough and it is very hard to move. The house is on a small man made lake (most are in fla), only about 18 houses around it. Built in 1967. Was over 55 community. Anyway she does not understand it don't cost all that much to fix things and it is for the good of the house. She is young and cheap and does not understand and I have to suffer for it. Its not easy to find good rental units I have found out. Had not rented in over 20 years.

I did not see the previous post. I see my dear Tara is monitoring. To ScottGem, yes she is not telling you the whole story. One service man came to fix the washing machine when it dumped water all over the laundry room. That same service man told he the dryer needed a new element and she just told him there was nothing wrong with it and said she would not replace it. Also should I wait 2 months for a new handyman. Gee, every screen in the screened in patio was out and needing fixing among other things. Other things just broke. I could tell you much more.

As I said, I am a good tenant. Things break and need to be fixed. She was so nice when I met her. But money brings out the worst in people.

Unless you have a written lease that says she will supply a dryer, it is simple, she merely pulls it out and does not furnish one at all. Same with a washer.
And of course unless this is a HUD rental, I am not sure she has to furnish screens at all. I have given some of those slide in ( or portable) screens ( about 3 dollars each) to a few teannats and told them if they lose them getting more is up to them. Most likely you are wanting a 1000 a month home for 500 a month ( or something like that) She is under no obligation to fix the dryer or widows and more if she does not want to, they do not make

I rent a lot of lower cost homes and if you came to me with some of those complaints I would have just laughed at you on the phone. If you had threatened to withhold rent, you would have had an eviction notice the next day. Time to understand that you have what you moved into, if you had wanted better you should have rented better when you moved in.

No more of this crap. I'm done. There is a lease, have u not been reading these posts? The dryer is in the lease, as is usual. Why do they allow slum lords on this group? Too bad you don't live in NYC FR. They would have your head on a stick. Have a great day.

no more of this crap. i'm done. there is a lease, have u not been reading these posts? the dryer is in the lease, as is usual. why do they allow slum lords on this group? too bad you don't live in NYC FR. they would have your head on a stick. have a great day.

We know there is a lease. Other than that it allows you to move out prior to the expiration, we don't know what's in it. Most leases do not provide for working clothes washers, dryers and dishwashers.

This site is open to anyone as long as they adhere to the rules (insulting people is not adhering to the rules).

Sam you do have the option of putting your rent money in the Clerk's Registry pending repairs being made to the home. I assume FTL means Ft. Lauderdale. Go to the Broward County Courthouse and see the Clerk and fill out the paperwork there stating just what needs to be fixed. You'll get some great results out of Miss Rent You a Pile of ___. They will be more than happy to help you out. Take along your lease also. Landlord cannot evict you for non payment of the rent as you already paid the rent into the Court Registry. Keep your receipt in a safe place. Once repairs are made and the landlord proves they were made, then the Clerk distributes the money to the landlord.

I love you TWINKIEDOOTER. YOU DO UNDERSTAND. THANKS. But I am not a mean man. I would have trouble doing that. That's MY PROBLEM!! I'M TOO NICE and she does not understand that... :o

Sam you do have the option of putting your rent money in the Clerk's Registry pending repairs being made to the home.

This assumes that the repairs are necessary and applicable. The County is not going to allow rent to be withheld for spurious repairs.

Clerks don't generally ask too many questions they just handle the paperwork and notify the landlord accordingly.

Spurious - Synonyms 1. false, sham, bogus, mock, feigned, phony; meretricious, deceitful

I don't think that your repairs Sam would fall into the above definition as they sound necessary.

You could call the building department and ask them if the screened in patio needs to be properly screened in. And if it does then this is a necessary repair and it is not a false or bogus repair.

First, A screened in porch is not a necessity even in Florida. Unless the property description specifies one as an amenity of the rental, I doubt if it would be considered a necessary repair.

I also doubt if the that agency would act precipitously. I would assume, they would have a building inspector check to make sure the repairs are necessary before they withhold rent. Necessary repoairs would be one that makes the house uninhabitable. A creened in porch doesn't qualify. Neither does the lack of a clothes washer or dryer.

If you two can't work this out, I'm pretty certain you won't be getting the lease renewed in about 5 months Sam.

Sam, I know that you would like the property to be the way you want it, but this is not your property. If you do not like the conditions, you can either move, or perhaps spend your own money to fix things to your satisfaction... if given permission... but the owner does not have to pay for those alterations at all.

For example, you are unhappy with the way the dryer works. It is functioning but slower than you would like. If you believe that it will save you money to pay for a new element, as opposed to the electricity that it uses currently, then pay for the change yourself, but don't expect the owner to pay for something new when the old is functioning.

The repairs you are wanting seem as if they would require the owner to charge a lot more rent in order to supply them.

The trouble with renting is that you are not the owner, and I am sure you would take pride in maintaining a home if you did own it. I think that is the heart of the matter that is causing the riff between the two of you.

Now in fairness, If the owner is able to allow some discounts for your taking good care of the property, that would be beneficial to both of you. Perhaps, you can agree to a free month's rent at the end of the lease if you make certain improvements to better the condition of the property? That would be better than having the property sit empty while looking for a new tenant...

I'm not choosing sides in this, I just hope that you can both see the other's perspective and look at what is important to the other person. You both have different concerns, and hopefully those can be mutually resolved.

Hello again:

We're back to he said/she said. That ain't going to get us anywhere. Look, it isn't a matter of who should have done what. At this point, who cares? You BOTH should have made better choices.

But that was then, and this is now. It's a matter of what will it take to keep the relationship going. If you insist on getting everything you want, Sam, then you're going to be looking for another place to live. If you, tara, are unwilling to part with some major cash and do it TODAY, then you're going to be looking for a new tenant - and that's going to be hard to do from NY.

It's in both of your interests to get this handled - TODAY.

So, I don't want to hear any more complaints! You don't want to make me mad, do you? I want to know, Sam, specifically what repairs you need done NOW - specifically, and how much it will cost. This ain't your wish list. That happens later. I know, I know, she should do more. Like I said, you knew that she wasn't great to begin with.

excon

Yes, what happens is if they refuse to make the repairs, they go for eviction, and they prove in court the repairs were not needed, and out the person goes. That is why what exactly is promised in the lease is all that counts. I have had rentals with no screen windows at all, no storm doors, no screen proches, or screen just removed. Unless that is specifially listed it is not required. If I include a washing machine or dryer ( and I seldom do) I have it listed that I do not warranty them to work, and if they quit I have the option of taking them out, and they are only there at my option, for the benefit of the renter. And if not even listed, there is no requirement for them to be there.

But if the landlord does not want or care that the property is great looking, there is little a renter can do to force it. In the end, I would say that they should agree to just allow the renter to move out, and let him rent a place up to his standards ( which is what he should have done in the first place, since this place did not fall apart in a few months, it was obviously in this condition when he moved in)

It's up to the building and zoning people what is supposed to be there or not. You guys missed the boat about landlord tenant rights.

Remember retaliatory evictions are not looked at too kindly by the court and just because a tenant complains is not sufficient grounds for eviction.

I happily tap danced down to the Clerk of Court and put my rent into the Clerk's Registry due to a landlord not fixing some plumbing problem. I did not have any building inspector or anyone else come to the apartment and the Clerk did not ask a bunch of questions either. When the landlord made the repairs, he proved it to the court and he got his rent money. This was several years ago when I lived in Fort Lauderdale, Florida. I sincerely doubt if anything has changed since then. And no, my landlord did not evict me because I complained and put my rent money into the Registry.

Why are you so against this resolution and want to keep this legal remedy secret?

An owner has the option not to renew at the end of the lease without it being considered retaliatory. The complaint's are a reason for non-renewal. Not that any reason is necessary at the end of the lease.

One guy that is correct. Non renewal is not retaliatory.

We aren't talkng about eviction. We are talking about non-renewal. Maybe the plumbing problem you had was clearly creating an uninhabitable condition. It appears the problems Sam is referring to do not make the property uninhabitable. I really find it hard to believe that any agency would just force a landlord to make unnecessary repairs. Even if the agency would accept the payment, I'm sure the landlord has an option to protest the need for the repairs. Otherwise they would be denied due process which is unconstitutional.

Thanks you all again for your comments - good and bad I am open to all opinions.
I know that this is a he said/ she said situation and I really have no one else to consult in this issue with experience. I have tried my best and I am not cheap and unreasonable. I am going to get a property manager as many have suggested. Unfortunately I don't think I will ever be able to come to agreements with Sam as he sees me as a "poor misguided child ("following her dreams")" (first line of his email to me after he read that what I had posted here)

This is definitely not resolved, but I wish it would be, soon. It is taking a lot of my energy that I should be spending focusing on my dreams and concentrating on work.

no more of this crap. i'm done. there is a lease, have u not been reading these posts? the dryer is in the lease, as is usual. why do they allow slum lords on this group? too bad you don't live in NYC FR. they would have your head on a stick. have a great day.



Well, based on this exchange my "vote" goes to Tara -

I don't even want to read anything more from this guy; imagine trying to deal with him landlord to tenant?

(Gee, I lived in NYC and don't remember any heads on sticks - )

We aren't talkng about eviction. We are talking about non-renewal. Maybe the plumbing problem you had was clearly creating an uninhabitable condition. It appears the problems Sam is referring to do not make the property uninhabitable. I really find it hard to believe that any agency would just force a landlord to make unnecessary repairs. Even if the agency would accept the payment, I'm sure the landlord has an option to protest the need for the repairs. Otherwise they would be denied due process which is unconstitutional.


Always the possibility the reports to Housing, Inspection will work for the landlord - I had a tenant - complain, complain, complain; call, call, call. Housing and Inspection got so fed up they RECOMMENDED that the tenant be evicted (not non-renewal, eviction) and actually testified in Court for me.

My tenant also felt that some things which did not seem vital to me were vital to him - and I think the screen on the patio comes under this category.

Also don't know Florida law (obviously) but in NYS what you see is what you get - some puffery is even allowed. Philosophy is look before you rent.

Hey Sam in FTL,

To try and put this horse out of its misery, why don't you go around the house, list everything you think should be taken care of and send the info to Tara. See what she agrees to do and if you two adults can come to a resonable end to your issues. Remember compromise is very important, on both sides.