I found out 2 years ago that I might have a child in a different state then I am in. I did not get DNA tested because I did not have the money. I have been paying child support since then and now I have more money and can afford the DNA test. I went to a Lawyer last week and he advised me that we can go to court and more then likely the judge will deny the DNA test. Because I have been paying child support for the last 2 years. He said that we can still go to court but I am not sure if I should shell out the $2000 just to get denied by the judge. I do not know where she or the child lives, so I did not know if I could still buy a test and have the courts make her take one. Or if I should go though the courts to see if I can take the test. Also if I get denied buy the courts I wanted to know what my other options are.

I think it's time for men to get together and fight this sort of issue.

I found one organization that claims to do that, but I don't know who you can trust.

Maybe someone else here will have more help for you.

Innocent Dads, Guilty until Proven Innocent! iDads, falsely accused fathers and their legal issues! (http://www.innocentdads.org/)

Here is a couple more links that might be of some help.

GlennSacks.com (http://www.glennsacks.com/)

GlennSacks.com (http://www.glennsacks.com/blog/?page_id=1470)

It depends on where you live... Some states/ Georgia,Ohio... /allows DNA tests any time.Other states have time limit./2 years -California,Tennessee... /.If you give us some more information we will answer you correctly.

I found out 2 years ago that I might have a child in a different state then I am in. I did not get DNA tested because I did not have the money. I have been paying child support since then and now I have more money and can afford the DNA test. I went to a Lawyer last week and he advised me that we can go to court and more then likely the judge will deny the DNA test. Because I have been paying child support for the last 2 years. He said that we can still go to court but I am not sure if I should shell out the $2000 just to get denied by the judge. I do not know where she or the child lives, so I did not know if I could still buy a test and have the courts make her take one. Or if I should go though the courts to see if I can take the test. Also if I get denied buy the courts I wanted to know what my other options are.



My experience has been that your Attorney is familiar with your State laws and knows what he/she is talking about.

I don't think anyone can tell you what to do - do you gamble $2,000 that it's not your child and end the support or do you just keeping paying.

And as far as other options - I don't see any. And, no, you can't just "buy a DNA test kit" (if that is what you mean), take it and then force her to take one. The Court will order testing.

The only other option is to challenge the laws in your state and that could entail a lot of money and energy? Contact an organization who is working on changing the laws. I think the men need to get together and pass a law that mandates that all babies get DNA tested before they leave the hospital.

Wouldn't it be great if you could get your money back that you have paid out in child support if it turned out that you are not the father?

The only other option is to challenge the laws in your state and that could entail a lot of money and energy? Contact an organization who is working on changing the laws. I think the men need to get together and pass a law that mandates that all babies get DNA tested before they leave the hospital.



Little late for that in this case - no such law would be retroactive.

Potential fathers can always require DNA testing before they consent to paying support (or, really, any time support and/or visitation go to Court) so I don't know that such a law would be helpful. Of course, then there's the whole "who is going to pay for this; who is going to enforce it; who is going to maintain the records" issue. You would almost need a Child Support Unit at the hospital to do so.

As far as father's rights - yes, I'm a female and I see inequities in the system but I don't think this is the answer.

I have no idea but this is not the first thread in which a potential father did not request DNA because of the expense. How expensive is it - I truly don't know.

All laws can be challenged. Even the law that says it is not retroactive can be challenged after all it's just another law.

I hope that you also look into passing laws against women who knowling falsely accuse men of fatherhood that could lead to jail time.

I have no idea but this is not the first thread in which a potential father did not request DNA because of the expense. How expensive is it - I truly don't know.
$200:D

$200:D



So father's pay support for years rather than pay $200 for DNA testing? Hmmm -

Wouldn't it be great if you could get your money back that you have paid out in child support if it turned out that you are not the father?


He was offered a DNA test and did not take it (for financial reasons, apparently) and I would think even if paternity is established he is not going to have his support money returned to him - that's how it works at least in NYS. I believe the Court feels if the father had not admitted paternity, then the mother would have looked elsewhere for support but the child still would have been supported.

In some States I do not believe you can question paternity after you have admitted to it and paid support money.

I think forcing the mother to return the money is unfair to the child - I would "assume" the mother used it for the child's living expenses and, as I said, she could have looked to someone else to pay.

The biggest problem is not the DNA tests price but the court system.You may have DNA tests excluding you as a father but for judges it is not admissible if it was made without court order.

All laws can be challenged. Even the law that says it is not retroactive can be challenged afterall it's just another law.


And how would you go about challenging this law?

Looks like its more then $200 and if you include court costs it might run $2000.
Court Admissible DNA Testing (http://www.homedna-test.com/court.htm)
That site is an example and they quote $450 plus $25 per person, then figure in the cost of a hearing and serving papers for court orders.. could run into $2000.

And I also don't believe that the courts would give back the money if you already paid it.

The biggest problem is not the DNA tests price but the court system.You may have DNA tests excluding you as a father but for judges it is not admissible if it was made without court order.


Right and they often only use certain "certified" labs - I just don't know the cost.

As far as I know there is no provision if the mother accuses someone, that person is DNA tested and is NOT the father, for that DNA test money to be refunded to the no longer father.

Looks like its more then $200 and if you include court costs it might run $2000.
Court Admissible DNA Testing (http://www.homedna-test.com/court.htm)
That site is an example and they quote $450 plus $25 per person, then figure in the cost of a hearing and serving papers for court orders .. could run into $2000.

And I also dont believe that the courts would give back the money if you already paid it.
Home DNA Paternity Testing | Worldwide Genetics (http://www.worldwidepaternity.com/)
Offers a legal and home paternity test for $175, infidelity DNA test, and DNA... Our discreet home DNA test ensures that you will know the answer without...
In-Home Paternity Test
An in-home paternity test allows you the flexibility of collecting your own DNA samples at a place and time that you choose. We will provide you an easy-to-use DNA collection kit that contains everything you need to collect DNA samples, including simple instructions and a pre-paid return envelope to send samples back to our laboratory. The cost of the kit is included in the $99 testing fee

Court admissible dna tests?They are admissible if they are court ordered.

If he is the father -$99 will be enough.

I am very interested in fact that many men sign PA and BS with doubts that they are BF and not make cheap DNA tests-in my example $99 ONLY!

Sorry but the home DNA tests are not allowed in court, the issue is that they have to be administered by medical staff, and they also have to have a legal chain of evidence and the test has to be done by a lab that is approved by that court.

But next why did you ever just start paying child support,? They can not order you to pay support unless there is a hearing and you have the right to deny being the parent, and then the MOTHER has to require a DNA test and they pay for it, and if you are found to be the parent then you would have to pay. YOu most certainly did everything wrong you could most possibility do.

To califdadof3
I suppose you are in California.There is a 2 year statute of limitation for paternity questions in Cali.Let's immagine that there is a 3 yo child in question.You are his/her father but you have DNA test from A CERTIFIED LAB.Do you think that this DNA test is admissible?Or the court will use "Paternity by estoppel"

Sorry but the home DNA tests are not allowed in court, the issue is that they have to be administered by medical staff, and they also have to have a legal chain of evidence and the test has to be done by a lab that is approved by that court
Sorry but the tests done by a certified labs are not admissible if they are not Court ordered

Confussed already got answers from his attorney. He is looking for other alternatives. That is what I gave him. Other alternatives another than what his attorney already gave him.

Prisons are full of people who admitted guilt but are not guilty.

Only confused knows the real answer why he did what he did? He is obviously looking for a way out of his mistake. There might be one.

Confussed, will you please let me know if I am anwering your question?

Sometimes we have a question but we don't know what it is.

Confussed already got answers from his attorney. He is looking for other alternatives. That is what I gave him. Other alternatives another than what his attorney already gave him.

Prisons are full of people who admitted guilt but are not guilty.

Only confused knows the real answer why he did what he did? He is obviously looking for a way out of his mistake. There might be one.

Confussed, will you please let me know if I am anwering your question?

Sometimes we have a question but we don't know what it is.



Wait a minute here - you suggested that he change the law; you suggested that he check into penalties for women who make false accusations of paternity. I don't think either one of those is a viable option, although you apparently did get the opportunity to do some venting.

I wasn't aware that prisons are full of people who admitted guilt but are not guilty - would be interested in where you get your info (both the who and the why). I don't do a lot of Defendant work but I do some so I would be interested.

Several other people DID answer his question, right on point.

Dana 2007-in my view there is a difference between "I went to a Lawyer last week and he advised me that we can go to court and more than likely the judge will deny the DNA test." and "I went to a Lawyer last week and he advised me that we can go to court but the judge will deny the DNA test.".
When I asked him for more information I meant I have all state codes,and all court decisions about paternity disestablishment,also I have several friends who are judges in different states courts and I can ask them for advice.But I suppose you are not able to understand the whole of paternity legislation and court practice.
Your suggestion linking to GlennSacks.com does not have any legal merits.

dana 2007-in my view there is a difference between "I went to a Lawyer last week and he advised me that we can go to court and more than likely the judge will deny the DNA test." and "I went to a Lawyer last week and he advised me that we can go to court but the judge will deny the DNA test.".
When I asked him for more information I meant I have all state codes,and all court decisions about paternity disestablishment,also I have several friends who are judges in different states courts and I can ask them for advice.But I suppose you are not able to understand the whole of paternity legislation and court practice.
Your suggestion linking to GlennSacks.com does not have any legal merits.



You don't get your legal advice from a radio commentator?

Shame on you. When a self-proclaimed authority begins to quote Jodie Foster movies as a source I tend not to listen. Also feel the same way about men, radio announcers or otherwise, who tell ME how I, as a female, "feel" about issues.


Anyway... I do think there should be some way to avoid the "you gave me a red mark, now I'm giving you a red mark" thinking. Seems to happen a lot with "new people" (like I'm not a new person!)

Sigh...

To califdadof3
I suppose you are in California.There is a 2 year statute of limitation for paternity questions in Cali.Let's immagine that there is a 3 yo child in question.You are his/her father but you have DNA test from A CERTIFIED LAB.Do you think that this DNA test is admissible?Or the court will use "Paternity by estoppel"
I wasn't worried about those things because we were married at the time of my children so it wasn't a concern. And as far as what I posted for a link that was to show an example of why it might cost more then the $200 that seemed to be quoting on other posts.

As far as the law goes its clear that a lot of judges only use law as an example and not as a rule. That being said.. if you have honest evidence then it may be considered for an adjustment by the courts. The adjustment being that a new DNA test might be ordered and a possible search for the rightful father. That in no way would relinquish the current obligation as it stands. Knowing the true father has many attatchments including of succession and of medical history. I can't predict what courts will do or say even on a slam dunk train of thought but I would hope there is some way to straighten out messes that we have created.

As far as the law goes its clear that alot of judges only use law as an example and not as a rule. :eek:
Would you like to give us some examples where the judges do not use the law as a rule:confused:

No matter which side of a paternity issue you are on, you should know the basics of California paternity laws. Alleged fathers have a limited amount of time in which to act. Once the child turns two years old, the person assumed to be the father can no longer challenge paternity.


You did not answer... if the child in question is three years of age and has presumed father,will the judge order paternity tests or will not... if a paternity test was made would the result be admissible in Court?
What about if there is no another man who claims to be a biological father,how it can help to search for the rightful father?

You don't get your legal advice from a radio commentator?Shame on you.
Wow- I am ashamed of me because I do not consider neither Glenn Sacks nor Jodie Fosters as my legal standard.Sorry!:)


Anyway ... I do think there should be some way to avoid the "you gave me a red mark, now I'm giving you a red mark" thinking. Seems to happen a lot with "new people" (like I'm not a new person!)

Sigh ....
Judy,some people here cannot understand that it is a law board.The legal grounds are cold,not emotional... It is not same to answer a question like,"How to feed my cat with fish and what I have to use-a golden fork or a silver spoon ..."and" What are my legal rights..."
I suggested theOP to take a $99 test and if he is proven to be the father-there is no need to go to court. Is $99 a big sum:confused: maybe NOT!But it can resolve the problem.

:eek:
Would you like to give us some examples where the judges do not use the law as a rule:confused:

No matter which side of a paternity issue you are on, you should know the basics of California paternity laws. Alleged fathers have a limited amount of time in which to act. Once the child turns two years old, the person assumed to be the father can no longer challenge paternity.


You did not answer...if the child in question is three years of age and has presumed father,will the judge order paternity tests or will not...if a paternity test was made would the result be admissible in Court?
What about if there is no another man who claims to be a biological father,how it can help to search for the rightful father?

Wow- I am ashamed of me because I do not consider neither Glenn Sacks nor Jodie Fosters as my legal standard.Sorry!:)


Judy,some people here cannot understand that it is a law board.The legal grounds are cold,not emotional....It is not same to answer a question like,"How to feed my cat with fish and what I have to use-a golden fork or a silver spoon ..."and" What are my legal rights..."
I suggested theOP to take a $99 test and if he is proven to be the father-there is no need to go to court. Is $99 a big sum:confused: maybe NOT!But it can resolve the problem.

I can't seem to find the 2 year limitation on paternity but I did find the form for changing it. It doesn't speak of a time limit based upon new facts or evidence. Form is FL-280.
California Courts: Self-Help Center: Families & Children: Parentage: How to Set Aside (Cancel) a Voluntary Declaration of Paternity: Bring a Court Action to Set Aside (Cancel) a Voluntary Declaration of Paternity (http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/selfhelp/family/parentage/bringaction.htm)
So it looks as if there may be a loop hole for a person that has signed the parentage form but never had a DNA test preformed. Im not a lawyer but it looks like that one may be it.

As far as using the law as an example and not a rule. I have appeared in a courtroom and have addressed a judge about blatent purjury by my ex. When I did prove it to its fullest extent the judge had done nothing about it. I proved beyond a shadow of any kind of doubt what she had done and why. I was forced to make over payments in child support for 6 months due to a dragging family court system. The end total was over $2600 in over payments. The judge didn't credit me a penny which isn't what the law says should happen. The judge never charged nor warned her in any way about purjury or contempt. Instead the judge allowed her to profit from her purjury and just keep the money and make an adjustment to be later carried out by the child support division as to what the child support was supposed to be. Her other purjury was to get a TRO against me during a custody evaluation ( again proven totally false and created by her and her lawyer ). If the judge had used the rule of law in those 2 incidents then the judge at a minimum would have applied the overages correctly and at least warned her about any further purjury not being tolerated. I hope that clears it up as far as my saying by example and not rule of law. To me the " rule " is meant to be applied equally but in my case I don't believe it had been that way.

As far as using the law as an example and not a rule. I have appeared in a courtroom and have adressed a judge about blatent purjury by my ex. When I did prove it to its fullest extent the judge had done nothing about it.

A judge does not have to do anything about perjury. That is up to the prosecutor since it's a criminal offense. So a prosecutor has to decide whether to charge and prosecute someone for perjury. So that is NOT an example of a judge using the law as an example and not a rule.

I can't seem to find the 2 year limitation on paternity but I did find the form for changing it. It doesnt speak of a time limit based upon new facts or evidence. Form is FL-280.
California Courts: Self-Help Center: Families & Children: Parentage: How to Set Aside (Cancel) a Voluntary Declaration of Paternity: Bring a Court Action to Set Aside (Cancel) a Voluntary Declaration of Paternity (http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/selfhelp/family/parentage/bringaction.htm)
So it looks as if there may be a loop hole for a person that has signed the parentage form but never had a DNA test preformed. Im not a lawyer but it looks like that one may be it.

As far as using the law as an example and not a rule. I have appeared in a courtroom and have adressed a judge about blatent purjury by my ex. When I did prove it to its fullest extent the judge had done nothing about it. I proved beyond a shadow of any kind of doubt what she had done and why. I was forced to make over payments in child support for 6 months due to a dragging family court system. The end total was over $2600 in over payments. The judge didnt credit me a penny which isnt what the law says should happen. The judge never charged nor warned her in any way about purjury or contempt. Instead the judge allowed her to profit from her purjury and just keep the money and make an adjustment to be later carried out by the child support division as to what the child support was supposed to be. Her other purjury was to get a TRO against me during a custody evaluation ( again proven totally false and created by her and her lawyer ). If the judge had used the rule of law in those 2 incidents then the judge at a minimum would have applied the overages correctly and atleast warned her about any further purjury not being tolerated. I hope that clears it up as far as my saying by example and not rule of law. To me the " rule " is meant to be applied equally but in my case I dont believe it had been that way.
CALIFORNIA FAMILY CODE
SECTION 7540-7541

7541.(b) The notice of motion for blood tests under this section may be
Filed not later than two years from the child's date of birth by the
Husband, or for the purposes of establishing paternity by the
Presumed father or the child through or by the child's guardian ad
Litem. As used in this subdivision, "presumed father" has the
Meaning given in Sections 7611 and 7612.
SECTION 7610-7614

7611. A man is presumed to be the natural father of a child if he
Meets the conditions provided in Chapter 1 (commencing with Section
7540) or Chapter 3 (commencing with Section 7570) of Part 2 or in any
Of the following subdivisions:
(a) He and the child's natural mother are or have been married to
Each other and the child is born during the marriage, or within 300
Days after the marriage is terminated by death, annulment,
Declaration of invalidity, or divorce, or after a judgment of
Separation is entered by a court.
(b) Before the child's birth, he and the child's natural mother
Have attempted to marry each other by a marriage solemnized in
Apparent compliance with law, although the attempted marriage is or
Could be declared invalid, and either of the following is true:
(1) If the attempted marriage could be declared invalid only by a
Court, the child is born during the attempted marriage, or within 300
Days after its termination by death, annulment, declaration of
Invalidity, or divorce.
(2) If the attempted marriage is invalid without a court order,
The child is born within 300 days after the termination of
Cohabitation.
(c) After the child's birth, he and the child's natural mother
Have married, or attempted to marry, each other by a marriage
Solemnized in apparent compliance with law, although the attempted
Marriage is or could be declared invalid, and either of the following
Is true:
(1) With his consent, he is named as the child's father on the
Child's birth certificate.
(2) He is obligated to support the child under a written voluntary
Promise or by court order.
(d) He receives the child into his home and openly holds out the
Child as his natural child.



The judge didnt credit me a penny which isnt what the law says should happen. The judge never charged nor warned her in any way about purjury or contempt. Instead the judge allowed her to profit from her purjury and just keep the money and make an adjustment to be later carried out by the child support division as to what the child support was supposed to be.
That's the rule-no one can modificate retroactive CS.If you want you can go to Small sums court.

As far as using the law as an example and not a rule. I have appeared in a courtroom and ... Please,have a look at Scott's answer.

I can't seem to find the 2 year limitation on paternity but I did find the form for changing it. It doesnt speak of a time limit based upon new facts or evidence. Form is FL-280.
California Courts: Self-Help Center: Families & Children: Parentage: How to Set Aside (Cancel) a Voluntary Declaration of Paternity: Bring a Court Action to Set Aside (Cancel) a Voluntary Declaration of Paternity (http://www.courtinfo.ca.gov/selfhelp/family/parentage/bringaction.htm)
So it looks as if there may be a loop hole for a person that has signed the parentage form but never had a DNA test preformed. Im not a lawyer but it looks like that one may be it.

As far as using the law as an example and not a rule. I have appeared in a courtroom and have adressed a judge about blatent purjury by my ex. When I did prove it to its fullest extent the judge had done nothing about it. I proved beyond a shadow of any kind of doubt what she had done and why. I was forced to make over payments in child support for 6 months due to a dragging family court system. The end total was over $2600 in over payments. The judge didnt credit me a penny which isnt what the law says should happen. The judge never charged nor warned her in any way about purjury or contempt. Instead the judge allowed her to profit from her purjury and just keep the money and make an adjustment to be later carried out by the child support division as to what the child support was supposed to be. Her other purjury was to get a TRO against me during a custody evaluation ( again proven totally false and created by her and her lawyer ). If the judge had used the rule of law in those 2 incidents then the judge at a minimum would have applied the overages correctly and atleast warned her about any further purjury not being tolerated. I hope that clears it up as far as my saying by example and not rule of law. To me the " rule " is meant to be applied equally but in my case I dont believe it had been that way.


If the facts are as you say (and I have absolutely no reason to doubt you, none at all) then you need to go back with either an Attorney or another Attorney and argue the unfairness of the original decision. There was a Court steno there; pay for a transcript and use that in Court. If the law was not followed, appeal!

And the TRO - well, that's dangerous ground because it's just very, very difficult proving a lie, convincing anyone that there is not one shred of truth or legitimate concern about it. I'm not saying the Court didn't beat you up but I am saying you were in a tough spot.

It seems courts are different throughout the land. In Calif at that time I was in a " family " court. A prosecutor deals in criminal court. If perjury is found in a family courtroom its up to the judge to inform the prosecutor / DA's office that an offence has occurred otherwise you could lie all day long without threat of any kind. There was in place a 3 separate court formula criminal, civil, family. Its my understanding the judge had the power to make recommendations just as if there were criminal intent discovered in a court case. Some states only have 2 court systems like civil and criminal. I believe it was within his powers during discovery that something even a warning should have been issued.

It seems courts are different throughout the land. In Calif at that time I was in a " family " court. A prosecutor deals in criminal court. If perjury is found in a family courtroom its up to the judge to inform the prosecutor / DA's office that an offence has occured otherwise you could lie all day long without threat of any kind. There was in place a 3 seperate court formula criminal, civil, family. Its my understanding the judge had the power to make recomendations just as if there were criminal intent discovered in a court case. Some states only have 2 court systems like civil and criminal. I believe it was within his powers during discovery that something even a warning should have been issued.

That's what I said. Perjury is a criminal offense and such a charge has to be prosecuted in criminal court.

Do you have any cite that says a Family Court judge MUST refer perjury to a prosecutor? Yes a judge has the power to refer charges, but I doubt if they are required, by law, to do so. Why didn't you press charges? The threat of prosecution for perjury always exists. But the enforcement iof that threat varies.

I think it would be worth it for you to go and have a DNA test done. Your lawyer handles all that for you. At least if you find out it's not your kid you will have a piece of mind. And I agree that all States should have DNA tests done on every kid that is born, it is no fair that a guy has to pay for someone else's child support.

It seems courts are different throughout the land. In Calif at that time I was in a " family " court. A prosecutor deals in criminal court. If perjury is found in a family courtroom its up to the judge to inform the prosecutor / DA's office that an offence has occured otherwise you could lie all day long without threat of any kind. There was in place a 3 seperate court formula criminal, civil, family. Its my understanding the judge had the power to make recomendations just as if there were criminal intent discovered in a court case. Some states only have 2 court systems like civil and criminal. I believe it was within his powers during discovery that something even a warning should have been issued.


In my area there still are 2 courts - civil (everything that is not criminal) and criminal - technically family court is a civil court.

Are you saying there was lying during trial or discovery?

While certainly not a recommended course of action lying during DISCOVERY (and for that matter TRIAL) is not unusual and unless it's way over the top usually nothing is done. It would appear that there were lies in order to get a TRO - but then you are back to proving that there was absolutely no basis in fact or basis for belief - and that's a hard one. Often your only hope is that someone filed a false Police Report - because the Police don't like that.

And civil Court - my own experience - I often get subpoenaed to testify at trial. The witness has never, ever, cross his/her heart seen me/met me/talked to me. And then I come in, notes and photos (and sometimes they are actually in the photos) in hand and, whoops, they suddenly remember! And absolutely nothing happens to them.