I need some ideas here.

There are two angle stops which are about 50 years old and they under a vanity have started to leak. I can’t turn them off.. I can’t tighten the packing nut. Actually the cold is leaking around the packing nut, but can’t turn either off.

They are long. There is about 3.5” of non-magnetic pipe which I assume to be chrome plated copper before it hits the actual valve body. I have my doubts whether the joint next to the valve can be unsweated. They are sweated about 1” from a ceramic tile wall.

The OD of the pipe leading to the stop is 0.679 and the OD of ½” copper tube is 0.614, so I don’t think I have options there.

I did replace one of these for a toilet some time ago and I’m comfy soldering that close to the tile with a barrier.

Some options:

Put ball valves downstairs where the pipes are easily accessible in any case.


I could try to rebuild the valve, but the last time I tried, it was futile trying to find parts. Installing ball valves downstairs would make me comfy to try doing this.

I could try to find one of these at a local plumbing supply house and re-sweat and add a ¼ turn aux valve if I want to. I found them online for $100. Seems too expensive. I remember them being cheaper, but it wasn’t ¼ turn.

I think my best option is to solder a female adapter to the 1” stub coming out of the wall. Then use a short threaded extension, either chrome or brass to a (female pipe thread to compression supply valve). ¼ turn if possible.

The attached picture shows the angle stop, taken with a circular mirror in the picture as well. The handle to the angle stop is removed.


What do you guys think.

KISS

Ive had to replace many of those in motel rooms that I have worked on... you have to buy new valve (compression works best) and new water line

I'm confused. Copper is magnetic, steel is magnetic. Installing stop valves downstairs will give you the ability to turn off the water to the sink but they won't stop the leak around the valves. Those valves don't look soldered from here, could they be threaded. Posting pics is the most helpful thing you could have done.

The valve body is soldered not the water line

Hey KISS... Hey... unsweat those babies and should be able to sweat a new set on pretty easy... if I get this post right. In my area they sell a brasscraft angle stop exactly as pictured for about 11.00 each (found at home depot and plumbing supply stores).

Clean the sweat joint under the bell flange real well... re-flux and should pop of pretty easy.(pulling handle and stem clear out of the valve helps).. heat and wipe a few times to clear heavy solder off after unsweating and then sand cloth the pipe and re-flux. Then add the valves... remove chrome plating from end of area to be soldered (will be under new bell flange) and sweat ' them on.

I hope this is what you were talking about... I do remodeling all the time and see this valve a lot!! Good luck.

Copper is not magnetic. Meaning it's chrome plated copper because there is some copper showing near the wall.

When I replaced the toilet valve, the unit that's replaced consists of a piece of chromeplated copper attached to the angle valve. With the chrome plating at the stop it would be difficult to remove or resolder at that joint. It must be removed where it's soldered, which is about 1" from the wall.

The unit is plated at the junction of the chrome pipe and the valve, so you have no way of knowing how it's attached.

But putting the ball valves downstairs allows me to address the problem without having the parts for plan B available.

e.g. Plan A
Install ball valve on hot water supply. Easy.

Turn off hot water with ball valve. Remove stem and address the posibility of a rebuild.
It's easy to go without hot water in the lavatory sink for many weeks.

Plan B
Replace the stop.

Mp:

That's what I did before. The ceramic tile makes it interesting but doable with the right tools.

I'm just thinking that the other choice sounds like a better idea. Female adaper + chrome pipe + angle stop. It then should be easy next time. If there ever is a next time. Also the bell can be replaced easily.

That's the option I need evaluated providing I can't rebuild the valve.

I'm sorry... I got so excited by the pic I only read about 3/4 of post... *laugh*... My opinion (for what it is worth... )... go for it!! Female to nipple to shutoff never fails!! Take care KISS

I stand corrected. Before I posted I went to check. My magnetic pick tool picked up copper mounting strap. Should have check against piece of copper pipe. Strap is copper plated steel.

[QUOTE]The OD of the pipe leading to the stop is 0.679 and the OD of ½” copper tube is 0.614, so I don’t think I have options there.

I'm betting the difference in thickness is due to the chrome plating.

Try removing some of the plating to see if the circumference changes enough to accommodate the installation of compression angle stops.

Growler: I think 0.032 is a little thick for plating (0.679-0.614)/2

Mp: That's what I figure. Everything becomes easier.

Hopefully, I can repair the valve. Easier yet.

Well, did some research today at Lowes:

No 1/2" pipe deep flanges available.
Checking with a 1/2" tube flange, the female adapter thing at the wall won't work. It won't hide under the flange.

Only straight long supply valves available there.

So, I'm going to go ahead with the ball valve install. Figure out what size the compression supply is and attempt to find the appropriate angle stop that I need from a plumbing supply store if re-building doesn't work.

Get a short, right angle, torch to work in the confined space if needed.

KISS.. this is under a vanity... right? So who cares if female adapter doesn't fit under bell flange? There will be all kinds of stuff piled in front... yes... no?

Anyway... ball valve idea is fine... rebuilding is even better... but one last thought.. for what it is worth.

CUT the bell flange off completely... use a red pair of aviator snips... cut as far as you can go and then kind of twist to finish cutting and pull off (gently)... very thin metal. THEN UNSWEAT that baby as I said before... use sandcloth and 1/2" copper wire cleaning brush to clean that sweat joint real good..then flux it..then heat it in about 1" to start... then work your way back toward solder of joint.. twist and pull off (I know you have done 1, but can't hurt to repeat these steps for anyone).

THEN... reflux... reheat and with a rag wipe that copper pipe clean of all solder until no longer gunked on (do not overheat this pipe... could loosen a joint behind wall).. then when cooled sandcloth it to leave behind just a slight tinted copper pipe. THEN you either add a 5/8" compression x 3/8" compression chrome angle stop with a flat escutcheon behind it... OR, you could just sweat a new short chrome shutoff and use a flat escutcheon... no one will see it.

Again... just thinking aloud with you. Cut that bell flange off... and see what you think from there. Always... best of luck!!

I need some ideas here.

There are two angle stops which are about 50 years old and they under a vanity have started to leak. I can’t turn them off.. I can’t tighten the packing nut. Actually the cold is leaking around the packing nut, but can’t turn either off.

They are long. There is about 3.5” of non-magnetic pipe which I assume to be chrome plated copper before it hits the actual valve body. I have my doubts whether the joint next to the valve can be unsweated. They are sweated about 1” from a ceramic tile wall.

The OD of the pipe leading to the stop is 0.679 and the OD of ½” copper tube is 0.614, so I don’t think I have options there.

I did replace one of these for a toilet some time ago and I’m comfy soldering that close to the tile with a barrier.

Some options:

Put ball valves downstairs where the pipes are easily accessible in any case.


I could try to rebuild the valve, but the last time I tried, it was futile trying to find parts. Installing ball valves downstairs would make me comfy to try doing this.

I could try to find one of these at a local plumbing supply house and re-sweat and add a ¼ turn aux valve if I want to. I found them online for $100. Seems too expensive. I remember them being cheaper, but it wasn’t ¼ turn.

I think my best option is to solder a female adapter to the 1” stub coming out of the wall. Then use a short threaded extension, either chrome or brass to a (female pipe thread to compression supply valve). ¼ turn if possible.

The attached picture shows the angle stop, taken with a circular mirror in the picture as well. The handle to the angle stop is removed.


What do you guys think.

KISS
You need to buy new compression valves and new water lines. You can find everything you need at Home Depot.

I need some ideas here.

There are two angle stops which are about 50 years old and they under a vanity have started to leak. I can't turn them off.. I can't tighten the packing nut. Actually the cold is leaking around the packing nut, but can't turn either off.

They are long. There is about 3.5” of non-magnetic pipe which I assume to be chrome plated copper before it hits the actual valve body. I have my doubts whether the joint next to the valve can be unsweated. They are sweated about 1” from a ceramic tile wall.

The OD of the pipe leading to the stop is 0.679 and the OD of ½” copper tube is 0.614, so I don't think I have options there.

I did replace one of these for a toilet some time ago and I'm comfy soldering that close to the tile with a barrier.

Some options:

Put ball valves downstairs where the pipes are easily accessible in any case.


I could try to rebuild the valve, but the last time I tried, it was futile trying to find parts. Installing ball valves downstairs would make me comfy to try doing this.

I could try to find one of these at a local plumbing supply house and re-sweat and add a ¼ turn aux valve if I want to. I found them online for $100. Seems too expensive. I remember them being cheaper, but it wasn't ¼ turn.

I think my best option is to solder a female adapter to the 1” stub coming out of the wall. Then use a short threaded extension, either chrome or brass to a (female pipe thread to compression supply valve). ¼ turn if possible.

The attached picture shows the angle stop, taken with a circular mirror in the picture as well. The handle to the angle stop is removed.


What do you guys think.

KISS
Y'know, there has been something very unsettling about this thread from the get-go, and I've finally realized what that is...

The outlet on the stop is 3/8" OD, which doesn't fit with the '50 years old' statement you made in your initial post -- If they were 50 years old, the outlets would be 5/16" OD , 3/8" ID or 1/2" OD.

Is it possible those are 3/8" IPS nipples with the stops machined on?

I've come across just such an animal in the past, usually as kit's sold for wall hung or pedestal lavs where the stops came already machined onto 6" brass 3/8" nipples.

>shrugs<

Just a thought.

I never said what the outlet of the stop is. I haven't looked.

In the wall there is an unrestrained 1/2" elbow. Sticking out from the elbow is about an 1" worth of copper pipe. To this 1" of copper pipe there is sweated to what's shown in my picture. The sweated joint is under the bell.

If I overheat the 1" piece of copper, I risk losing it in the wall.

It's similar to this pricey item: Mountain Plumbing Products 1/2" Copper Sweat Inlet x 3/8"O.D. Compression Outlet Deluxe Cross Handle Angle Valve - MT4006X : Homeclick (http://www.homeclick.com/web/catalog/product_detail.aspx?pid=253162&cm_ven=Bizrate&cm_cat=Bath&cm_pla=Mountain%20Plumbing%20Products&cm_ite=Mountain%20Plumbing%20Products-Bathroom%20Sinks-253162&cid=5E23DBA55686C2230BAEBCCF2610ACB1)

I saw straight versions at Lowe's for about < $15.

Your right, I could take even another approach:

Unsweat the current angle stop. Add a coupler and extend the copper pipe and use a compression angle stop, but I probably wouldn't be able to find a large bell to go over the coupler, but I could use a flat cover that doesn't have to go over the pipe before it's soldered.

Hey, I like things to look nice too, even if they are covered most of the time.

Is it possible those are 3/8" IPS nipples with the stops machined on?

Don't think so. The plating is continuous with no sign of threads.

Page 7. Best pic I can come up with.

The A86B or A87B.

Or even here:

Amazon.com: BRASSCRAFT ANGLE VALVE 5": Home Improvement (http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000P3ZDYU?smid=A1SV1BYDTUK2Z5&tag=dealtime-tools-20&linkCode=asn)

I never said what the outlet of the stop is. I haven't looked.

Well, I did, it's in the photo you uploaded.


In the wall there is an unrestrained 1/2" elbow. Sticking out from the elbow is about an 1" worth of copper pipe. To this 1" of copper pipe there is sweated to what's shown in my picture. The sweated joint is under the bell.

Right -- The chrome tube you see sticking out of the wall with the stop attached to it is 5/8" ID copper tube size.

IOW, it has the same outside diameter of a 1/2" copper fitting.


If I overheat the 1" piece of copper, I risk losing it in the wall.

So why would you do that?

Just cut the chrome tube behind the stop, clean the inside with a fitting brush solder a 2" piece of copper into it and install a 1/2"x3/8" compression angle stop.

It won't be pretty, but it is inside a vanity, as opposed to being a pedestal or wall hung lavatory.

Y'know, I'm all for doing the job right, but to do so would require removing the back panel of the vanity, opening up the wall and re-roughing in the water supply.

If the homeowner balks at this approach, then do the very best job you can with what you have and move on to the next one.

Just my two pence.

THEN UNSWEAT that baby as I said before...use sandcloth and 1/2" copper wire cleaning brush to clean that sweat joint real good..then flux it..then heat it in about 1" to start...then work your way back toward solder of joint..twist and pull off (I know you have done 1, but can't hurt to repeat these steps for anyone).

THEN...reflux...reheat and with a rag wipe that copper pipe clean of all solder until no longer gunked on (do not overheat this pipe...could loosen a joint behind wall)..then when cooled sandcloth it to leave behind just a slight tinted copper pipe.

MASSPLUMBER-
I am interested in your comments for a related issue.
It looks like your process to unsweat a joint is to clean it well, flux, THEN heat to melt joint and twist off the fitting, correct? Also, it looks like you have no issue with then re-soldering at the same joint.

I have a 1" elbow that did not seal completely; it was 10° and windy. ( My joints inside look fine). I'm going to wait for a warmer (25°) day to re-do. Should I remove the elbow and start over, or just heat it up and add more solder?

Thanks!

Hey pdw77.. I would definitely sand, flux, heat, pull elbow off (twist a little). Then, re-heat slightly and with a rag wipe the excess solder off until left with a slightly tinned/ copper finish on the pipe. Then let cool and clean again with sandcloth... re-flux, clean/flux fitting ( I would use a new elbow as well.. just increase odds of finishing the job at this point... but if not available and you did not destroy it getting it off... well then you could just clean/flux this.. and reheat the elbow to slide onto the pipe... then solder both pipe and fitting... should do it) and join fitting to pipe and then solder away. That should pretty much guarantee success!

Hey let me know if this helped!! Good luck.

Hey pdw77..I would definitely sand, flux, heat, pull elbow off (twist a little). Then, re-heat slightly and with a rag wipe the excess solder off until left with a slightly tinned/ copper finish on the pipe. Then let cool and clean again with with sandcloth...re-flux, clean/flux fitting ( I would use a new elbow as well..just increase odds of finishing the job at this point...but if not available and you did not destroy it getting it off...well then you could just clean/flux this..and reheat the elbow to slide onto the pipe...then solder both pipe and fitting...should do it) and join fitting to pipe and then solder away. That should pretty much guarantee success!!

Hey let me know if this helped!!! Good luck.

MASSPLUMBER- just what I needed to know, thanks!
As a novice, doing this in sub-freezing weather is challenging.
I shall follow your advice whenever it "warms" up a bit.

When I was a little fella, maybe 10, Dad taught me the only way he knew how. Clean, flux, tin and wipe with damp rag. Heat assembly and add solder and wipe off excess.

I don't do all those steps anymore except when having to deal with an old fitting. As the fittings get larger, the harder they are to do and it sometimes takes a bigger hammer (BFH). I mean torch.

KISS, thanks for graciously letting me butt in on your threat:o
It was hard to pass up getting in with a couple of pros, and a cold-weather one to boot!

Pdw: Your welcome. Very related.

I found another option.
There is a Sharkbite angle stop. Seems like I can unsweat the stop and use a Sharkbite stop.
Comments. It's made by Brasscraft, but I forgot to write down the model #.

The large extension stop I found, but it's not 1/4 turn.

I guess some of you were wondering how it turned out:

Main supply valves where there weren't any before. Before and after pics.

Ball valves for the vanity and toilet. 1/2 NPT female adapters for the possible addition of a recirculator. Labeled. Wires tidied up. Pipes supported with ceiling flanges. Forgot and may do later: fire caulk for penetrations

The old and new angle stops.

The old: sweat with 5" integral extension multi-turn. Note the unexpected pinch I had to deal with.
The new: 3/8 female adapter, 3/8 NPT chromed copper with 3/8 IPS 1/4 tuen angle stop.

The female adapter can be concealed under the bell flange. I had a little trouble with the bell flange staying on because of the threads because it sits on the threads, I used a piece of foil tape on the threads.

This would have been another good choice: Watts: Angle - Quick-Connect | Brass & Tubular (http://www.watts.com/pro/_products_sub.asp?catId=68&parCat=2240)

It would keep things very close to the wall and look nice.

Use of heat shield and a piece of metal to protect ceramic tile. I could use a full-size propane torch.

The bell on the cold water side was cut off with my new toy: The Multimaster and it did a nice job. 2nd choice would have been the Dremel tool with an abrasive cutting blade.

Final repair with penetrations caulked on this side and new shelf paper.

I got side tracked a bit and sanded the rusty bell flange on the toilet and gave it a rust treatment with Extend. It's ready to paint black.

I also did the same with the toilet pipe.

O know, I should replace the supply hoses with braided ones.

About $10 for the stops and less than $2.00 for the chrome pipe. The bell and the female adapters were cheap too and so were the few copper fittings. The ball valves were about $8.00 each. I could even get the non-quarter turn angle stops with the extension and bell flange easily.

I don't like compression. Swage is OK. Compression, Yuk.

Hello Keepitsimplestupid - I have done a few of these types & they are sodered. & the crom makes the difference in the ( O>D> )of the other copper pipe. I would remove the old ones and replace with new compression cut offs. Hope this helps If it does rate me below. Good Luck & GODBLESS::::: F.B.E. ( OH by the way did you tell them when they told you $100.00 ,You should have said 9 I don't want to buy the factory, JUST A COUPLE CUTOFFS ) HaHa HA ;:: F.B.E.

1/2 NPT female adapters for the possible addition of a recirculator

It looks like you installed two adapters and I can't really tell from the photo but it looks like one is on the hot and one is on the cold. May I ask why? Are you going to recirculate your cold?

Yep, I did. Here is the one I like so far that doesn't require a return line. Hot Water Circulator Recirculator Circulation Pumps (http://www.redytemp.com/) I just don't want to put it under the sink if, and when, I decide to install one.