Since George W. Bush is nearing the end of his term, what do you think his legacy will be?

Short term, still negative but I think looking back 30 years from now, he will be seen a much better light.

Restoring honor to the white house by not soiling a pair of pants in the oval office?

Sorry... I almost leaked beer out my nose laughing as I wrote that.

Ummm... time heals a lot, like fr chuck said. Who the hell knows what iraq will become? If it dramatically changes the landscape of the middle east, it'll soften the image. If iraq falls apart, its hard to say... will it be his fault for destabilizing the area or will it be the fault of the next person(s) who didn't "finish the job?"

As iraq goes, so goes the bias?

I think he will be seen, even 30 years from now the worst president ever in american history.

Billions of dollars in dept. Going into war under false evidence of weapons. There is a long list that I could go on. The american economy blows and they are not going to see above the waters for a long time because they focused on a war that should have never took place.

I'm discontent with his presidency overall. I don't think he was a good president by any stretch of the imagination, but looking back, let's say twenty years down the road, I probably wouldn't label him bad, just somewhat incomplete. The guy got into office with less than half of our nations voting populace in support following a lengthy national election that took too long to sort out (and even included the Supreme court). Shortly after being in office he was saddled with a huge burden of 9/11. I give him good marks for Afghanistan and poor marks for his strategic measures in Iraq. Second term the guy got saddled with natural disasters, i.e. Katrina. I think he reacted fairly the same as any other president would had in most of the calamities. His tinkering with the economy was average at best, loaning us our own money to see it taxed again, along with cutting interest rates several times. I give him mostly negative marks for the amount of bankruptcies filed and for a housing market that we saw peak, only to have increasing foreclosures to pursue. This lead to new tighter restrictions on mortgage broker loans. It took the pressure of most of the nation pondering what's taken him so long before seeing the minimum wage finally increased. Gas prices are ridiculous and having a presence in the Mid-East region of the world, to the contrary, has shown no oil benefit. To Bush's credit though, since his very first term, he has challenged the large car manufacturers to come up with alternative fuels. I think die-hard Republicans were mostly disappointed with his immigration reach-out that most people recognized as a form of amnesty. Overall because of the circumstances that happened during his presidency, a fair amount beyond his control, I'm grading him with a "C+."




Bobby

I think he will be seen, even 30 years from now the worst president ever in american history.

Billions of dollars in dept. Going into war under false evidence of weapons. There is a long list that I could go on. The american economy blows and they are not going to see above the waters for a long time because they focused on a war that should have never took place.


Worst ? Come on now, even though he is a friend, can we all say

JIMMY CARTER

Really? The prez is now responsible for bad mortgage loans??

I voted for the guy twice, and almost puked the second time, but the dem had a wacko and a liar so it sucked to be me.

But really... the prez had NOTHING to do with the mortgage fiasco.

When the hell are PEOPLE going to take responsibility for their own bad financial decisions?

A lot of lenders made bad, bad decisions. They should be held responsible too... a lot of financially responsible IDIOTS took out loans they couldn't sustain.

But I don't hold the president of a company responsible if there's no toilet paper in the stall.

Get real.

I think he has been a puppet, a shill for greedy people who have their own agenda.

I am talking about the debt caused by the governments policies, war policies, world policies. These are not debt caused by the people but by the government.

P.S. Wondergirl maybe your right. Puppet for greedy people. Still the President.

I am grading him with F, a big capital F. I guess I should also blame the people have voted him in twice. For being duped. Each time.

Instead of blaming the dems for having a decent candidate on the ballot... that's all I needed...

And I do agree iraq never should have happened.

I said to my wife, when colin powell was in front of the un with wmd "evidence" I didn't care. Iraq wasn't right... that was long before the truth came out, and long before the dems started reversing their positions.

I have a friend who is iranian. I knew from him what war with iraq would mean.

But I voted for him the second time because we were there, like it or not, and the dems had a guy I didn't trust.

Unfortunately the gop did too.

Hello E:

He's the worst I've ever seen, and I been around since Roosevelt. Of course, I think the world will agree with me.

excon

really? the prez is now responsible for bad mortgage loans???

i voted for the guy twice, and almost puked the second time, but the dem had a wacko and a liar so it sucked to be me.

but really... the prez had NOTHING to do with the mortgage fiasco.

when the hell are PEOPLE going to take responsibility for their own bad financial decisions?

a lot of lenders made bad, bad decisions. they should be held responsible too... a lot of financially responsible IDIOTS took out loans they couldnt sustain.

but i dont hold the president of a company responsible if theres no toilet paper in the stall.

get real.



Nope. What you witnessed was the unbridled power of the lenders shafting people because the system was available to them, and that my friend came to a head under his presidency. And after it was too late, in conjunction with Ben Bernanke and Alan Greenspan's input, the President did his best to correct the snowball effect that was inevitable. Those sham lending services and offices have been closed down in Las Vegas. I suspect the same in your neighborhood. As for toilet paper, thankfully the President finally stopped the $h!++!ng and got off his pot. ;)



Bobby

He definitely is the worse ever. He makes even President Pierce look good and that poor man was one of the most forgettable presidents we ever had.

The bad dream will be over soon... maybe we can forget this man.

Hope he enjoys his retirement in South America.

Well... the American citizens did reelect him. Even though I'm a democrat, for lack of a better party, I think George Dubya has done a fine job. He has stuck to his guns. What exactly does he care about I'm not sure; probably the bottom line, but he speaks like I do and I look at him as a regular guy even though I know he probably is not.

He has led the country through two wars and a recession; amongst other things.

I am ready for a different perspective however.

He has stuck to his guns.

And hasn't listened to the American people. Just "full steam ahead..." no matter what the polls say or the WH email/ground mail brings in. "My way or the highway."


He has led the country through two wars and a recession

Two wars and a recession that he started or was a catalyst for.

Well...the American citizens did reelect him. Even though I'm a democrat, for lack of a better party, I think George Dubya has done a fine job. He has stuck to his guns. What exactly does he care about I'm not sure; probably the bottom line, but he speaks like I do and I look at him as a regular guy even though I know he probably is not.

He has led the country thru two wars and a recession; amongst other things.

I am ready for a different perspective however.
I wanted to spread the love to wondergirl on her post, but was not able to.

The fact is George Dubya, Why do you think they call him Dubya, and if you base the fact that you talk like him well then I will call you Mr.Swift.

I will say the same thing. He (George is the one that caused the recession by putting all the money the country does not have into a wars that should never of even happened.

Night.

Well...the American citizens did reelect him. Even though I'm a democrat, for lack of a better party, I think George Dubya has done a fine job. He has stuck to his guns. What exactly does he care about I'm not sure; probably the bottom line, but he speaks like I do and I look at him as a regular guy even though I know he probably is not.

He has led the country thru two wars and a recession; amongst other things.

I am ready for a different perspective however.

I think the biggest positive coming to our nation through his two terms is the greater respect I see in people for our military personnel. My brother has served once under his father and three times in Iraq for Dubya. As proud Americans, no matter how we view our country's past presidents, being a US citizen is a wonderful privilege.


Bobby

I don't give a dam if he's in the pocket of oil or big biz or whatever...

The mortgage crisis is because people are idiots about their own finances.

Yes... the lenders made greedy, dumb mistakes. But that does NOT excuse joe public for being responsible for his own debt.

At what point are you willing to stand up for something? At what point does a person bear responsibility for their own actions?

I could have bought a home for 200K more than I did.

I educated myself. I ran the numbers. I knew I could do more, but id be better off where I am.

So... play the fricking martyr all you want...

People who do not understand money and then flail about when they are "screwed" because of their financial decisions are idiots.

Darwin says so.

I don't agree with the war and I think 100 million dollars a day will have been better spent on the homeless or on children's textbooks or even paying disabled vets for missing limbs. That said said, he has shown that a little cojones is what's needed when dealing with people that want to kill us westerners.

Wondergirl agrees: We're not proud of our military BECAUSE of him. We are proud that they endure DESPITE his being Commander In Chief.

Wondergirl: good point! To clarify what I'm speaking of is the times we live in. I think our nation learned this time to love our military and not blame them, in regards to the poor treatment many of our soldiers got coming back from Vietnam. That our pride and respect was renewed despite the circumstance, not that Bush could ever give us that quality which we already had, being proud Americans.



Bobby

I disagree, sort of...

While I love my military, I don't think we have the support that is stated here...

I'm not saying its like it was w vietnam... we don't have "baby killer" protesters lined up at the airport..

But I also don't think we are giving our servicemen and women the support they deserve. At least en masse.

I think its more of a cold acceptance is some cases.

But that only my limited experience. It's a big country, and I live in a little part of it.

i dont give a dam if hes in the pocket of oil or big biz or whatever...

the mortgage crisis is because people are idiots about their own finances.

yes... the lenders made greedy, dumb mistakes. but that does NOT excuse joe public for being responsible for his own debt.

at what point are you willing to stand up for something? at what point does a person bear responsibility for their own actions?

i could have bought a home for 200K more than i did.

i educated myself. i ran the numbers. i knew i could do more, but id be better off where i am.

so... play the fricking martyr all you want...

people who do not understand money and then flail about when they are "screwed" because of their financial decisions are idiots.

darwin says so.


Darwin studied birds on islands without mortgages. What the hell does "darwin" have to do with this post. And what was the "fricking martyr" comment about? I bought a house and turned a low six digit profit in a matter of three years and I didn't screw anyone in the process. Your statement that the lenders made dumb mistakes gave me the biggest laugh of the day. The lenders were not dumb, they knew exactly what they were doing. When your neighbor is effected, out of their own ignorance or being shammed by mortgage thugs, it effects the specs in your neighborhood.



Bush pushes bills to expand home refinancing options - BloggingStocks (http://www.bloggingstocks.com/2008/01/02/bush-pushes-bills-that-give-more-home-refinancing-options/)





Bobby

i disagree, sort of...

while i love my military, i dont think we have the support that is stated here...

im not saying its like it was w vietnam... we dont have "baby killer" protesters lined up at the airport..

but i also dont think we are giving our servicemen and women the support they deserve. at least en masse.

i think its more of a cold acceptance is some cases.

but that only my limited experience. its a big country, and i live in a little part of it.

What a surprise. You disagree, "sort of." Two, three, perhaps five percent? By far the majority of Americans are proud of our servicemen. Even the candidates that want immediate pullout or phased withdraw out of Iraq wouldn't even whisper such to the contrary. With all due respect, the public on average is light years ahead of how our Vietnam soldiers were treated.



Bobby

I think our service men and women are getting shafted. They always have and always will.

Hmmm... survival of the fittest has nothing to do with nothing...

If you took on an arm at the very top of your available lending amount, I think you are ignorant.

I'm not saying YOU, I'm saying the person that did it. And the also the lender.

People who are getting creamed in the real estate market oftentimes have themselves to blame.

Maybe I'm just more conservative than others. Maybe I've just placed a priority on livng below my means in order to invest.

And if the darwin reference really threw you that much, we have little to say to each other.

Yes... as a double major in bio and chem I do understand Darwin wasn't talking to the finches about arm's. Duh.

Are you really b!tching about the fact I think our servicemen and women don't get the public support they deserve?

Clueless.

Uh... people running for election say what the hell ever they think they need to... gop or dem.

OK.. lets replace "martyr" with "whining b!tch"...

Again... if you made a really bad financial decision, such as borrowing WAY more than you should have, expecting home prices to ALWAYS go skyrocketing higher..

I think YOU are the number one person to blame.

I think no matter how many banks want to court me, I'm going to make a decision based on fiscal responsibility.

Now.. in the spirit of the thread, prez bush is an idiot on this matter... but so are many of the people who thought buying real estate when its red hot at its top dollar.

Like it or not, the people who signed their names to bad decisions are, in part to blame...

That doesn't mean to prez isn't an idiot.

are you rally b!tching about the fact i think our servicemen and women dont get the public support they deserve?

Kp2171- I said a small percentage, perhaps five or less, which is by far lesser than the Vietnam dynamic.



and if the darwin reference really threw you that much, we have little to say to each other. ?

Now if your going to make a comment, just explain yourself. For example: a passing statement about "Darwin," which may have meaning, reads like gibberish. Sorry if you get offended with your double major bio and chem degree blah blah blah, but I need to understand your reasoning. It may actually be relative to the post. If you could just back up your statements with something tangible, I'd be glad to accommodate having a civil discussion. I've tried, but you don't seem to know how.



ok.. lets replace "martyr" with "whining b!tch"...



No, let's not. Let's speak in terms of respect, not adolescence. Those people, for the most part were ignorant, but many were taken advantage of. And again the bigger picture is that it still effects YOU. You do live in a neighborhood.



again... if you made a really bad financial decision, such as borrowing WAY more than you should have, expecting home prices to ALWAYS go skyrocketing higher..


i think YOU are the number one person to blame



You're contradicting yourself. Those mortgage companies, earlier, YOU said some are greedy. That was MY point.



i think no matter how many banks want to court me, im going to make a decision based on fiscal responsibility.


I know YOU don't understand this, but some people have to be protected from themselves because of predator loan sharks. While I read the fine print, often young first time buyers and little grandmothers sometime don't, nor do they often understand loan terms.



now.. in the spirit of the thread, prez bush is an idiot on this matter... but so are many of the people who thought buying real estate when its red hot at its top dollar.

like it or not, the people who signed their names to bad decisions are, in part to blame...

that doesnt mean to prez isnt an idiot.



I've got to go now and bless my son a good night. I have a long day of ahead of me at the credit office tomorrow, in the department where I work. I won't waste any more time on this post and quite frankly I'm bored with the dialogue. So I'll call it a night. Please take what I've mentioned as constructive criticism, if you will. It seems when this post started that I was one of the few, if not the only one so far, that gave a detailed general analysis of some good things and bad things that has involved Bush's presidency. Again I'm grading him a "C+"; he's not the best I've seen, nor the worst. :cool:





Bobby

Bad.

He went after Saddam, solely for the fact that he had a vendetta with him.

He stomped all over the UN.

He's a sociopathic, dyslexic, inarticulate greedy bastard who had everything in life paid for by daddy.

Dodged the draft.

Made sure all his cronies got rich.

He stole the 2000 election, granted nader should take some of the blame for not dropping out.

This is just off the top of my head so I'm sure the list goes on and on.

If you think this guy was a good president you have your head way up your a$$

I think that history will look on him generally in a good light. He will end his Presidency ;like Truman ,with very low approval ratings. Like Truman he will be graded better by history because people will realize that both entered their
Presidencies having to redefine our foreign policy . The Bush doctrine on how to deal with the jihadists war on civilization ;like the Truman doctrine's defining how to deal with global Communism will be the template that future Presidents use .

Economically he piloted us through the twin hits of the tech bubble bust and the economic effects of the attack on 9-11-2001 . Because of his policies we have had one of the largest ,resilient ,and longest economic recoveries and growth . I know it is popular to now forecast doom and gloom but here is some of what was accomplished.

Household net worth increased in 2007. At the start of 2007, net worth was $56.1 trillion. By the third quarter, this climbed to $58.6 trillion and probably rose again in the fourth quarter. Even in the face of the housing-market bust, economic growth was a solid 2.5 percent. Job creation was robust. The U.S. economy added 1.3 million jobs in 2007. The Budget deficit is in decline. Although energy prices surged, core inflation was up only 2.3 percent . The softening of the economy this year might feel like a recession, but isn't, and conditions won't deteriorate into a recession. Most likely growth will slow but it will still be a growing economy.

His court selections were are outstanding ones .After he initially tried to use cronyism in his selection process he picked outstanding judges.

He has not been great . He should've smacked down the Republican Congress when they over spent . Some mistakes were made in the execution of the Iraq theater of the war against the jihadists. Those mistakes I believe have been identified and are being corrected. He could've and should've championed tax reform .His biggest fault is that he has not been an effective communicator . That caused him to fail at the beginning of his send term to get serious Social Security reform through Congress. I opposed some of his initiatives like comprehensive immigration amnesty and the Dubai Port deal ;and I also think he is making a mistake in his attempt at solving the Israeli -Palestinian question.

Overall however he has been a good President and I think history will recognize that .

Considering how W has singlehandedly trashed this country I am wondering just what else is in store for us before he's out of office. Probably a few more contrived "disasters" upon the American citizens.

Probably as a madman if the truth of 9/11 ever comes out, either because he covered up the truth, or was involved in the conspiracy.

Well, all I can say is that I'm ready for change. And I don't mean Obama.

Go hillary GO!

Hillary is no Bill, besides, who else is there? None of the Dems's out there with the exception of Edwards stands a chance and I'm anti republican so you tell me. Who else is there?

Barack Obama.

I like Barack but he doesn't stand a chance. Just wait and see. Besides... America is not quite ready for President Barack Hussein Obama.

I don't think edwards has a chance.

I'm sure ill get more flak for this, but I was disappointed he was going the "big business bad" slant this time through. It plays well to the poor and some middle class, but not to the reagan dems... not to mod republicans who are willing to vote against the party line as well

Just don't think he will get the crossover votes playing the part of the enemy of all things incorporated... though he did seem to pull hard against obama in the first caucus among the independents... was a little surprised at that. And of course you never know who the gop candidate will be, so maybe hed show stronger than I give credit.

You still stuck on the Hussein thing? That has nothing to do with anything.

I said on another forum when Obama became IL's junior senator that he would be running for president. I was called crazy and got booed off the forum.

I saw three registered gop people switching their party to dem to give support to obama at the caucus.

I knew he would run for president also because when it comes down to it he is just making Hillary stronger and maybe that was the reason for him running. Realistically he is inexperienced in foreign affairs, heck he's inexperienced in domestic affairs as well. Since he's been senator he hasn't done much for his constituence.

Side note: Obama claims to be a christian, I don't buy that, but if he is then just imagine how the middle east wack jobs will take that. I don't think we are ready for another Holy war. Especially since we haven't finished with the one we're currently in.

Obama's the real thing. His effort to become president is the real thing.

Check your facts, EIFS Expert. Look what the experienced current president has done for us.

I'm confused...

You are saying electing a christian will start a holy war, or electing a black man named obama who is christian will start a holy war? The US will be seen as a christian country no matter who is elected.

I'm not trying to butt heads, since we seem to do that. You have a hillary bias that's admitted... your vote, your choice, no beef from me. But you've eluded that the US isn't ready for a man because of his name and his religion.

It might be true... but it almost sounds like you think these are reasons not to elect him. Am I wrong? Wouldn't be the first time.

I think obama has some decent ideas, and that hed even be able to get moderate help from the gop side, and he has an ability to stir up support. I'm disappointed in his "present" votes in the IL sentate... shows he might not want to take a stand when running for election, and if you compare him to clinton, she's been present and voted a lot more... but then again she also is much better known, so he had a lot of campaigning to do...

As for experience, I can't tell you anymore what is needed. I mean who loved G.H.W. Bush? Not the dems, not the gop... and that man had a lot more experience than clinton or sonny boy...

Do you think bush would be where he is with a different group of advisors/administration? I think, maybe, yes.

I just want an election in which I get to choose between two damn fine candidates... instead of the last two when I thought it was dumb and dumber.

Wondergirl,

I'm no Bush supporter and I don't want to get into a politcal debate but
You apparently think Bush was the worse thing to happen to American politics, and with that I disagree.

As a native New Yorker I was thrilled at his take no prisoners approach to dealing with the folks overseas that want us either bearded or in burkas.

I admire his back bone and his stick-to-it-tiveness.

Obama is a lier and said he was never a muslim when it is well documented that in fact he was. I'm not racist or prejudice but I'm a little uneasy about his true intentions.

The most significant act of his presidency is the Iraq war and even most rightys admit what a shambles it has been. He will be remembered according to how this Iraq fiasco will be remembered. A mistake!

I think another good reflection on his presidency is the Military Commissions Act and the unlawful disgrace that it is.

As a native New Yorker I was thrilled at his take no prisoners approach to dealing with the folks overseas that want us either bearded or in burkas.

I'm also from NY and was disgusted by his dealings with the wrong people in the Mideast. He should have gone after the Arabs whose people were in the planes that attacked the towers. But no, he secretly jetted his Arab friends out of the country.


I admire his back bone and his stick-to-it-tiveness.

You mean his stoneheadedness and narrowmindedness?


Obama is a lier and said he was never a muslim when it is well documented that in fact he was.

Nope, he wasn't. You better read up on that a little more.

So what's the religious litmus test to be the leader of the US?

I'm not racist or prejudice

Are you sure about that?

To use the words of our illustrious leader...

"BRING IT ON."

What are you all whining about? I agree he should have gone into Afghanistan even though they never declared war. It was abundantly clear after weeks of investigating that we probably should have done something sooner.

Racist?.

Please. Far from it. Obama is not our best choice in my humble estimation. And as far as the litmus test, yeah I want a litmus test. Ever read how the women live in Saudi Arabia?

I think most women in America should think twice about Barack Hussein Obama.

Hillary Clinton is far more experienced especially if you include her years as First Lady in Arkansas and in the White House. Not to mention her Two terms in the Senate as a ranking member.

The middle name question was answered ages ago.

Yeah OK, so your satisfied with that.

Why would you want to drag it out? It hasn't come up again, so everyone but you must have been satisfied by the explanation. He mentioned it in his first book, so it's not like he tried to hide it.

I guess I'm unique then..

But the fish don't smell right,. if you catch my drift.

He was hand picked by the powers that be to benefit the Democratic party in the long run.

But not in 2008.

Then why has his middle name not come up at all during the campaigning? I would think that would be a hot button if it had not already been resolved.

He wasn't handpicked by anyone. Durbin encouraged him to run. Oprah encouraged him to run. Is that who you mean by the PTB?

Uhh... no. Although Oprah plays a significant role in winning Iowa I think Richard Durbin is just another pawn in the great scheme of things.
Face it, Obama will never win. He's trailing in S.Carolina, Florida, Nevada to name a few.

Oprah had nothing to do with Iowa. Durbin convinced him to run. Mark my words on this day of our Lord, January 13, in this year of our Lord 2008: Obama will be the Dem presidential candidate.

Did God tell you that? Because otherwise how could you possibly know?

I know. Check back later this year. We will talk again.

Will do.

twinkiedooter agrees: And I suppose you believe the moon is made of green cheese as well. Apparently you don't read anything but newspapers to get your so called "news" do you?

Twinkie

If all I did was read newspapers I would certainly agree with you that his Presidency has been a failure. You must be new here because if you knew me better you would know my critiques of publishings like the NY Slimes and Washington Compost.

Go Giants!!

I think overall Bush has been a fairly good president, far better than he's depicted - even though he's had his share missteps and faults - and I agree with tom that history will judge him far kinder down the road.

For those who think he's been a global disaster I have to ask how objective your opinion is? Other than a brief swoon after 9/11 the man has been under relentless attack since he first ran for president. There are still people complaining that he stole the 2000 election and actually afraid he will establish his theocracy before the end of his term instead of stepping aside for the next president. As recently as July, Harvey Wasserman & Bob Fitrakis wrote a column on CommonDreams.org fearing Bush might cancel the election (http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/07/31/2874/). Come on, how sane is that?

Until the surge's success in Iraq we've been bombarded for years with daily death tolls, suicide bombings and other stories of Bush's failure (funny how the Iraq news has slowed to a crawl). When the Trojan horse Democrats took control of Congress they initiated an untold number of investigations (have any of those shown anything yet?) of the Bush administration, they've pounded him relentlessly on Iraq, torture, justice dept lawyers and a host of other issues. "Entertainers" have made it their sole cause to destroy the man, equating him to Hitler and calling him racist in spite of his most diverse administration. Is there any wonder people would have a negative opinion of the man after the all out assault he's been under for almost 8 years now? Just today an al-AP article (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/R/RECESSION_ODDS?SITE=SCCHA&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT) graced the front page of my paper opening with this:


The unemployment rate leaps to a two-year high, record numbers of people are forced from their homes and Wall Street nose-dives again. Such is the fallout from a housing meltdown that threatens to slingshot the country into a recession

I don't know, isn't unemployment usually rather fickle around Christmas? Why should I feel sorry for people that got in over their heads with their mortgage? How is losing your home because you did get in over your head being "forced" from your home? How many of you actually think Bush is behind this subprime mess? Who has been the real fear monger the past 8 years, Bush and the Republicans or the mainstream media and Democrats?

How objective is your opinion? How are you doing? Worried about terrorists blowing up your neighborhood mall? Is your IRA growing? Have a job? Or has Bush ruined your life exactly as has been portrayed?

All I know is that the country is in ruins and it is mismanagement, the governments with its deficit and the war. That is his only only thing that he has done in government was to push for a war that never should have been. How much money could have been spent else where??

What I don't like is that there appears to be little fiscal accountability in terms of money spent or allocated for the war. Where are all these biilions going. And why haven't the gas prices lowered but instead have steadily increased which in turn makes the price of the tea in China increase if you know what I mean.

Worst US president: Franklin Roosevelt (thought he should have been king)
Best US president: George Washington (didn't want to be king)
With FDR being "1" and G Washington "10", Reagan is 9; W is 7

All I know is that the country is in ruins and it is mismanagement, the governments with its deficit and the war. That is his only only thing that he has done in government was to push for a war that never should have been. How much money could have been spent else where???

The country is in ruins? According to who and by what indicators? Last time I checked the country was doing OK. Where I am we still have a robust housing market, construction has been taking place at record levels, unemployment is low, we have new industry springing up everywhere and the mood is quite optimistic... exception among those suffering from BDS, their panties are always in a wad. For such an 'incompetent boob' he sure holds a lot of power over them. :D

Both parties fail to address the financial irresponsibility that needs to be addressed now.

I don't care if you are a dem who wants to raise taxes and spend on social issues, or a rep who wants to lower taxes and spend on the war... by the way, I've been a longtime registered independent, just changed to rep since I lean that way and I wanted to participate in the caucus, but honestly, neither party has really earned my affiliation. Yuk and yuk.

U.S. Heading For Financial Trouble?, Comptroller Says Medicare Program Endangers Financial Stability - CBS News (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/03/01/60minutes/main2528226.shtml)

For those who think he's been a global disaster I have to ask how objective your opinion is? Other than a brief swoon after 9/11 the man has been under relentless attack since he first ran for president. There are still people complaining that he stole the 2000 election and actually afraid he will establish his theocracy before the end of his term instead of stepping aside for the next president. As recently as July, Harvey Wasserman & Bob Fitrakis wrote a column on CommonDreams.org fearing Bush might cancel the election (http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/07/31/2874/). Come on, how sane is that?

Until the surge's success in Iraq we've been bombarded for years with daily death tolls, suicide bombings and other stories of Bush's failure (funny how the Iraq news has slowed to a crawl). When the Trojan horse Democrats took control of Congress they initiated an untold number of investigations (have any of those shown anything yet?) of the Bush administration, they've pounded him relentlessly on Iraq, torture, justice dept lawyers and a host of other issues. "Entertainers" have made it their sole cause to destroy the man, equating him to Hitler and calling him racist in spite of his most diverse administration. Is there any wonder people would have a negative opinion of the man after the all out assault he's been under for almost 8 years now? Just today an al-AP article (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/R/RECESSION_ODDS?SITE=SCCHA&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT) graced the front page of my paper opening with this:



I don't know Steve, but perhaps all these journalists, entertainers and the voting public may be right. If the there is such a large number of people from all walks of life who dislike his presidency maybe there is good reason. Or is it just that everyone else is wrong? :)

The relentless attack may be justified. That's politics. You are subject to the judgment of the public you govern. And as you've said the people he governs and indeed millions in the rest of the world seem to generally have a fairly negative outlook on him and his presidency.

Like I said, where there's smoke there's fire.

In saying that I will grant you that many of these will not have made up their own mind. They are not smart enough to do so, so they believe what they are told. But many others are smart enough to make up there own mind and even some of those people here who are his supporters admit that he will be looked upon poorly. Perhaps that is saying something. :)

Skell agrees: Where there's smoke there's................

Usually someone blowing it?

I don't know Steve, but perhaps all these journalists, entertainers and the voting public may be right. If the there is such a large number of people from all walks of life who dislike his presidency maybe there is good reason. Or is it just that everyone else is wrong? :)

I question whether it's so many people "from all walks of life" or just the loudest.


The relentless attack may be justified. That's politics. You are subject to the judgment of the public you govern. And as you've said the people he governs and indeed millions in the rest of the world seem to generally have a fairly negative outlook on him and his presidency.

Accountability, sure. Dislike, it's going to be there. But the outright hatred and the refusal to acknowledge anything positive about the man I've witnessed over the years? It isn't justified.


Like I said, where there's smoke there's fire.

Well now, then what have they actually got on Bush after all these years of investigations and allegations? Should be an easy question to answer. Why has he not been impeached if he has done all he's accused of? :)


In saying that I will grant you that many of these will not have made up their own mind. They are not smart enough to do so, so they believe what they are told. But many others are smart enough to make up there own mind and even some of those people here who are his supporters admit that he will be looked upon poorly. Perhaps that is saying something. :)

Now we're getting somewhere Skell. I'd be willing to bet most of those that are so disillusioned with Bush know more about what's happening on American Idol or Desperate Housewives than they actually know about Bush. Where there's smoke there tends to be a lot of hot air :D

Usually someone blowing it?

Haha. Very good. Ill pay that! :D

BABRAM agrees:The hot air you hear will be coming from the Giants secondary as they are toasted by Favre this weekend.

Guess he'll watch a lot of game film of the Cowboys getting it done then . :D

Bobby

The truth is that the 'boys came within a great last second interception from winning the game . I was ready to scream . When I was in Kansas the boys were the NFC regional game . I got to watch Roger Staubach lead them to last minute victories week after week. I was having horrible flashbacks.

Guess he'll watch alot of game film of the Cowboys gettin it done then . :D

Ahem, even though the score wasn't in our favor the Boys did hold the Giants to only 57 yards in the second half. It was just that yard where Jacobs crossed the goal line that killed us :D

Bobby

The truth is that the 'boys came within a great last second interception from winning the game . I was ready to scream . When I was in Kansas the boys were the NFC regional game . I got to watch Roger Staubach lead them to last minute victories week after week. I was having horrible flashbacks.


Another cheap blow to remind of the good times? Way to cheer me up "man." Just reading this I had my sunglasses on, my bottom lip shaking, and a tear was rolling down my cheek. :cool:


Teary-Eyed Owens Backs Quarterback - New York Times (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/14/sports/football/14dallas.html?em&ex=1200459600&en=cd68fbc3e36709eb&ei=5087%0A)

“If you do that, that's really unfair,” Owens said. “Really unfair. That's my teammate. That's my quarterback. We lost as a team. We lost as a team, man.” :eek:


Seriously though. It' scary when Terrell starts making sense. Now if I could get Patrick Crayton to shut up. That third down pass hit him in the worse place, his hands. This off-season I want to trade "can't catch" WR Crayton, "can't pass defend" Roy Williams, "can't tackle or cover" Jacques Reeves, and "can't find the hole" Julius Jones, for a back-up Arena league punter and three players to be named from a college practice squad. :rolleyes:




Bobby

PS. And to keep on subject I'll trade WR Terry Glenn for Condoleeza Rice. As the ex-Cowboys coach Parcells once put it when Glenn injured his hamstring and missed the entire exhibition season with what Parcells insisted was a mild strain. Asked about Glenn one day at training camp, Parcells said, "She's making progress." :)

Seriously though. It' scary when Terrell starts making sense.

Yeah, lol. And what's up with the media coverage? Hillary finally shows her human side and wins a primary - T.O. finally shows his human side and he gets mocked all day. :D


Now if I could get Patrick Crayton to shut up. That third down pass hit him in the worse place, his hands. This off-season I want to trade "can't catch" WR Crayton, "can't pass defend" Roy Williams, "can't tackle or cover" Jacques Reeves, and "can't find the hole" Julius Jones, for a back-up Arena league punter and three players to be named from a college practice squad. :rolleyes:

What's up with Crayton anyway? He used to have hands of glue. I'm with you on the others, RW was a non-factor this year (except for being flagged), they need to quit pretending Reeves has "stepped up," and I've never had much faith in Jones. I guess him running for a yard and a half and getting tackled looks much better from the sidelines than it does on TV. And while they're at it, maybe in the offseason they can figure out to how to tackle on kicks and get a kickoff past the 20. Maybe McBriar could use that strong leg to put it out of the end zone.


PS. And to keep on subject I'll trade WR Terry Glenn for Condoleeza Rice. As the ex-Cowboys coach Parcells once put it when Glenn injured his hamstring and missed the entire exhibition season with what Parcells insisted was a mild strain. Asked about Glenn one day at training camp, Parcells said, "She's making progress." :)

Look at it this way, with Parcells in Miami we stand a decent chance of some of those "Parcells guy" jumping ship :D

Crayton's the greatest receiver in Cowboy preseason history and hands down the most feared tenacious tackle breaker (YAC) when playing touch football. Too bad I think we're stuck with him since Jerry "4th qtr sidelines" Jones gave him a new contract recently.

One way or the other here's Crayton's replacement next season: Isaiah Stanback (http://www.nfl.com/players/isaiahstanback/profile?id=STA371036)

The former QB Isaiah Stanback had to learn his new WR position, but was already better than Crayton this year. They stuck Stanback on the development back burner status out of respect to the older more experienced receivers.


Another dismal waste of salary to add to the departure hopes is: Flozell "offsides" Adams. He's nearly as trigger happy as one VP Cheney. Flozell after getting back from another truly unqualified trip to the Pro Bowl this season, becomes a free agent. Aloha! Lucky for us that we should send his fat tuchus packing.




Bobby


PS. Update: there are reports that OC Jason Garrett maybe the next Baltimore Ravens coach, that indeed they offered him the job. About three-quarters through our season Garrett looked like a genius and I thought for sure Jones would retain him. After his horrible decisions down the stretch starting with the play calling in Philly, that changed. Hey Jason! Don't let the door hit you in the @$$ on your way out.

One way or the other here's Crayton's replacement next season: Isaiah Stanback (http://www.nfl.com/players/isaiahstanback/profile?id=STA371036)


Stanback certainly has promise and he can even take Crayton's place as emergency QB. I expect Jerry to be busy again this offseason... only to watch him once again trade down on draft day.


PS. Update: there are reports that OC Jason Garrett maybe the next Baltimore Ravens coach, that indeed they offered him the job. About three-quarters through our season Garrett looked like a genius and I thought for sure Jones would retain him. After his horrible decisions down the stretch starting with the play calling in Philly, that changed. Hey Jason! Don't let the door hit you in the @$$ on your way out.

I think Garrett's going to be OK. I can't say if it was his play calling or just the annual late season swoon we've grown accustomed to. He's also been offered the Falcons job and Jerry has offered to match any salary proposal.

I think his morals changed shortly after he got in to office... I MISS BILL:D :)

I wouldn't miss Bill when it comes to morals as he was the only president to get "caught cheating" on his first lady "in" the white house. Yes, I know others did it but they didn't get caught officially.

At least bill was man enough to admit when he made a mistake

He only admitted that mistake after denying it repeatedly and with his back to the wall. In my opinion that is not an honorable admission. All in all, he was still a nice guy though...

Well one thing's for sure, subsequent presidents will feel the pinch by the fiscal problems left by the Bush tenure.

I don't claim to be a political pundit, but I predict that history will rate G.W. Bush much more highly than his approval ratings show right now. You know, the only difference in most of the spending during the last 7+ years is that the Dems have complained that not enough was being spent on several programs.

I don't claim to be a political pundit, but I predict that history will rate G.W. Bush much more highly than his approval ratings show right now. You know, the only difference in most of the spending during the last 7+ years is that the Dems have complained that not enough was being spent on several programs. Studies: Iraq costs US $12B per month - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080310/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_war_costs;_ylt=ArlXHItzldeOFzAXDQXOaw6s0NUE)

Studies: Iraq costs US $12B per month

At least bill was man enough to admit when he made a mistake
You mean, "perjury bill"? "disbarred bill?" What did your "bill" ever admit?

Congresses approval rating is right there with car salesman and IRS auditors. But don't look past the fact that when Dubya retires he'll simply go off to his ranch in Crawford, Texas and continue to get "attaboy" pats on the back from his friends of upper class wealth and the die-hard constituents from his administration. The Bush clan will blow it up W's rear about how the old man and him were father and son presidents. However, realistically Herbert started with trickle down economics that didn't work and G. Walker leaves us in a recession. Although much of his presidency could be graded incomplete with nine-eleven so early as his first term, he is still out of touch. The man was oblivious to the recent gas prices that are now rising again. Let's just say twenty years from now we double his approval rating from what it was few months ago, a lowly twenty-five to fifty percent. Still unsatisfactory considering a nation divided.

[QUOTE=BABRAM]Congresses approval rating is right there with car salesman and IRS auditors. But don't look past the fact that when Dubya retires he'll simply go off to his ranch in Crawford, Texas and continue to get "attaboy" pats on the back from his friends of upper class wealth and the die-hard constituents from his administration. QUOTE]
IF W were to end his term with no further attacks on American soil, his presidency will be a success; there is no guarantee. Remember, he came into his first term with the intelligence provided by eight years of Clinton the Playboy, during whose eight years the military and intelligence were compromised resulting in the tragedy of 9/11. So he finishes in a recession; he began in a recession. Let's just compromise on that point and call it the 'business cycle'.

IF W were to end his term with no further attacks on American soil, his presidency will be a success; there is no guarantee. Remember, he came into his first term with the intelligence provided by eight years of Clinton the Playboy, during whose eight years the military and intelligence were compromised resulting in the tragedy of 9/11. So he finishes in a recession; he began in a recession. Let's just compromise on that point and call it the 'business cycle'.

I keep waiting for Dubya to admit the economy went sour under his administration. Probably won't happen, will it? Considering he was given two terms of "business cycle", he now leaves us facing a much deeper recession than what he inherited and that's not progress for a president twice elected by electoral votes, once by popular count. George, although the subject is W's legacy, you and I probably agree that we've seen enough of the Bush and Clinton clans for a lifetime, and for various reasons.

I believe his legacy is going to be
He set everything up for the next President to finalize globalization
-just for one thing-He left the borders open intentionally -NEVER had any intention of 'closing' them -just for one!

I think in the circumstances that he was in, he did all right. Someon could have done better, but who, like it was stated earlier depends on how the iraq situation turns out.

Of all the brilliant people in the United States, that was our only choice. Come on now, you know it was rigged.

Of all the brilliant people in the United States, that was our only choice. Come on now, you know it was rigged.

Yeah it was rigged and we got the choice of rotten choice or more rotten choice.

And Kerry? A complete dope. Who picks these people? Are the Marx brothers still alive in a back room of the White House writing this script? "They gonna love this!" "Bonk Bonk!"

And Kerry? A complete dope. Who picks these people? Are the Marx brothers still alive in a back room of the White House writing this script? "They gonna love this!" "Bonk Bonk!"
It's called democracy. Anyone ever wonder why women were not voting until 1920?

Uhmmm, because they were all barefoot and pregnant?

ineedhelpfast disagrees: that's cause you believe that conspiracy.

And you believe everything Bush tells you. I don't know which is most pathetic.

The pathetic thing is that you think you know what I think.. are you serious, you probably are that's why you wrote that.:rolleyes:

I know you are but what am I?

Lol, I don't know spam

Spam Head.

Since George W. Bush is nearing the end of his term, what do you think his legacy will be?
You really want a serious answer to that?
It all depends on if you ask that to a small selection of rather conservative American voters, or to the overall majority of humanity...
:rolleyes:

Since George W. Bush is nearing the end of his term, what do you think his legacy will be?

OK, OK, here is what I think his legacy will be:

Monkeys will be allowed to vote. What? They already do? Oh... well... nevermind.

Things seem to be deteoriating as far as inflation goes, but I am thankful that neither Gore or Kerry are at the helm!

Doesn't matter who is at the helm. The private bankers are running the show. The part that really counts anyway. That's the problem.

boredINmind (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/members/boredinmind.html) disagrees: Maybe in New York things are looking good, but here in Arkansas hundreds of people are out of jobs due to layoffs. 4 factories off the top of my head laid-off and 1 major factory is closing. That's just in a 50 mile radius of my house.


And how were things when your man the slick one was running things in Arkansas ?Except for the few businesses in the Arkansas Development Finance Authority the rest were in the crapper or run out of business. The only thing that went up in Arkansas was the suicide rate and the bulge in Billy 's pants .

boredINmind disagrees: When my mom and all of my friends were laid-off and started looking for jobs that just ain't there, I should have just told them that it is their fault. Blaming the leader of our country for a SILLY little economic depression due to his WAR! SILLY ME

Hey bored, how much power do you actually think the president has over the economy? Who made him responsible for your mom and friends keeping their jobs or finding new ones? Who said this alleged depression was due to the war? You missed my point entirely which is regardless of the reality, the left and the mainstream media WANT a recession. They've been driving the discussion on the economy and it's all fear, all depressing, all Bush's fault all the time. They have a vested interest in your misery as they believe it will help them get their way in the election, so we can listen to the fear mongering from the left and the media and wallow in self pity, waiting for government to rescue us - or we can reject their assault, pick ourselves up, and show them what America is made of. I choose the latter, and I'm offended that our supposed rescuers don't mind if we're miserable as long as they win.

tomder55 agrees: Steve you sound like a gun totin bible tumpin anti-immigrant bitter person.
George_1950 agrees: Charter member of the vast, right-wing conspiracy.

http://images.cafepress.com/product/125681556v3_240x240_Front.jpg

Hey bored, how much power do you actually think the president has over the economy? Who made him responsible for your mom and friends keeping their jobs or finding new ones? Who said this alleged depression was due to the war? You missed my point entirely which is regardless of the reality, the left and the mainstream media WANT a recession. They've been driving the discussion on the economy and it's all fear, all depressing, all Bush's fault all the time. They have a vested interest in your misery as they believe it will help them get their way in the election, so we can listen to the fear mongering from the left and the media and wallow in self pity, waiting for government to rescue us - or we can reject their assault, pick ourselves up, and show them what America is made of. I choose the latter, and I'm offended that our supposed rescuers don't mind if we're miserable as long as they win.Hahahahahhahahahahahha!! Look at your buddy tomder's post above where he blames Arkansas' economic downturn on Clinton.

Here I'll post it for you:

and how were things when your man the slick one was running things in Arkansas ?Except for the few businesses in the Arkansas Development Finance Authority the rest were in the crapper or run out of business. The only thing that went up in Arkansas was the suicide rate and the bulge in Billy 's pants .

You guys are so fanatical it's funny! LOL!

Hahahahahhahahahahahha!! Look at your buddy tomder's post above where he blames Arkansas' economic downturn on Clinton.

Gee NK, you'd think by now you'd get that I'm not so easily ridiculed. All I got out of tom's post was a comparison of Arkansas under Clinton, would you mind pointing out exactly where he "blames Arkansas' economic downturn on Clinton?"


You guys are so fanatical it's funny! LOL!

Well, I can't speak for tom but I think it's interesting that those of us more concerned with reality than perception are the ones you consider 'fanatical.' :D