This letter appears in the Jerusalem Post


FROM ONE TEXAN TO ANOTHER
RABBI STEWART WEISS

This is an historic moment for Israel. President George W. Bush - the leader of the free world, a champion of the fight against terrorism, and arguably the best friend Israel has had in the White House since Ronald Reagan - is making his first visit as President to our country.

No doubt, Mr. Bush - and I hope you are reading this in the Jerusalem Post, Israel's English-language newspaper of choice - you will hear any number of diverse opinions from all kinds of people while you are here about Israel, the Middle East peace process, terrorism, etc. But I would like to offer you a perspective that is perhaps different from any other you will encounter on your visit.

It's the viewpoint of a young man, born and bred in the great city of Dallas, Texas, just down the road a piece from your family ranch in Crawford. He was proud to be an American, and a Texan, too. He even met you on one occasion at the ballpark, when you were managing partner of the Texas Rangers baseball team. I wish that boy could be writing this article himself, instead of me, but Sgt. Ari Weiss, our beloved eldest son, was killed five years ago in a battle against
Palestinian terrorists.

Ari loved sports, and was an excellent athlete. He was a big fan of the Dallas Cowboys - "America's Team"- and I'm sure
he would have wanted to be at this weekend's playoff game. But he accompanied us to Israel when we moved here, and came to love this land, volunteering for an elite combat unit when he reached military age, and bravely, selflessly fighting our enemies, until he fell.

Ari believed that this country was akin to the Alamo, that quintessential San Antonio monument to Texas independence and courage. I took Ari to see the Alamo as a young boy, and later explained to him that the State of Israel was a similar kind of fortress, a symbol of Jewish resolve to reclaim our ancient heritage and create a future in the homeland of our past. Ari believed that Jewish destiny would be played out here in Israel, and not anywhere else, and he wanted to be a part of that great adventure, no matter the risks he had to take. Ari - whose name means "lion" - saw the world a lot like you, Mr.
President: A struggle of Good versus Evil, Democracy versus dictatorship, an unceasing battle between those who would subjugate others under their control, and those who just wanted to live a free and happy life.

I told Ari a lot about you before he fell. How you were resolute and strong-minded, determined to hold the course you felt was right despite vicious opposition from others around you. We both admired how you "stuck to your guns" like a real Texan, and called a terrorist a terrorist - not a "freedom fighter" or "activist" - and would give them no clemency or quarter.

I sure hope you haven't changed. I hope you won't pay too much attention to some of the lunatic fringe that we encounter in these here parts sometimes. Like the editor of Haaretz, who insanely told Dr, Rice that he wants Israel "to get raped," or addle-headed members of the government who lose their resolve and talk about freeing mass-murderers like Marwan Barghouti, who propose "giving away the farm" in exchange for useless promises of peace. I suspect that, away from the cameras and tape recorders, you'd admit you have your own share of crackpots in Congress, with their own nutty ideas. And I love how you smile your smile and just ignore them, dismissing their negativity with perfect Texan phrases like, "That dog won't hunt!"

You're a model for us, an inspiration, really. You've taught us to draw a bead on what we know is right, and never stray from that path, to draw a line in the sand and never yield, despite the pain or pressure. You held back from squeezing Israel - as some of your predecessors did - to make ALL the concessions, to give in to every demand put upon us. You waged war against terrorists when it was mighty unpopular. YOU may not have found any weapons of mass destruction, but WE certainly have: They're called Hamas, Hizbollah, Iran and Syria - and they're pointed directly at our heart.

You know, we folks here have a lot in common with folks like you. Why, even our two flags - those of Texas and Israel - are strikingly similar. Both have a single star, a shining light in the darkness, representing a beacon of justice and morality in an all-too dark world. We each are Lone Star States, standing in the breach, defending what's right, ignoring the threats against us and moving forward, despite the odds.

So, Mr. President, here's a plea - a prayer, even - from one Texan to another: Don't lean too hard on the good guys in the
white hats (or kipot!). Convince the other side, the ones shooting the rockets into our cities everyday, the ones who refuse to disarm the terrorists, the ones who blame everybody else, except themselves, for their problems, to stop whining and get busy making their people into respectable citizens of the world.

We have faith in you, because you are definitely one of the "good ol' boys." In an age of shrinking volunteerism and flagging idealism, in a world where values and justice are often turned on their heads, you - and Ari - showed us that some things in this world are worth fighting - and dying - for.

All comments are appreciated.

Elliot

God bless you, your family, Israel, and America.

Thank you for sharing this well-written, heartfelt, sincere letter that was put in that paper.

Hello El:

Nice letter. To bad George isn't going to listen. He's going to keep on giving the bad guys money and weapons.

excon

Dear Rabbi Stewart Weiss,
War is hell. You chose your son's fate so you need to learn to live with it.

Forces: U.S. & Coalition/Casualties - Special Reports from CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/iraq/forces/casualties/index.html)
Iraq

There have been 4,210 coalition deaths -- 3,904 Americans, two Australians, 174 Britons, 13 Bulgarians, one Czech, seven Danes, two Dutch, two Estonians, one Fijian, one Hungarian, 33 Italians, one Kazakh, one Korean, three Latvian, 22 Poles, three Romanians, five Salvadoran, four Slovaks, 11 Spaniards, two Thai and 18 Ukrainians -- in the war in Iraq as of January 11, 2008, according to a CNN count. (Graphical breakdown of casualties). The list below is the names of the soldiers, Marines, airmen, sailors and Coast Guardsmen whose deaths have been reported by their country's governments. The list also includes seven employees of the U.S. Defense Department. At least 28,870 U.S. troops have been wounded in action, according to the Pentagon. View casualties in the war in Afghanistan and examine U.S. war casualties dating back to the Revolutionary War.

Elliot,
Why don't you move to Israel and help them out? Aliya! I mean, you really don't seem to give a damn about all the Goys and Gals fighting and dying for America.

When you think about it, the service men and women have not given their time and life in vain, neither is the monetary cost. The rule of law and the opportunity to live in peace is priceless. I think it is too bad that so many Americans discount their priceless freedoms for security. Indeed, too many are ready to give up their freedom for security.

This week he called for a Palestinian State with contiguous borders;basically meaning that while he says that Israel should pull back the 1967 borders ,that Palestine will in return be able to bisect Israel.He said that any peace agreement "will require mutually agreed adjustments" to the lines drawn for Israel in the late 1940s. He said Palestinians deserve better than a "Swiss cheese" state fitted around Israeli land. He also used the term "occupation " while inside Jerusalem.


"There should be an end to the occupation that began in 1967. The agreement must establish a Palestine as a homeland for the Palestinian people just as Israel is a homeland for the Jewish people."

Neville Chamberlain thought he had negotiated peace when he came back with an agreement to subdivide Czechoslovakia.That is the closest comparison I can think of at this time.
"They have healed the brokenness of My people superficially, Saying, 'Peace, peace,' But there is no peace.Jeremiah 6:14

He's beginning to sound like Jimmy Carter in his attempt at legacy building regardless of the cost to Israel. I have supported and defended President Bush in almost everything BUT this is unworkable, unsensible, unrealistic, unwise ,insupportable.

George_1950. They do not get it. Perhaps they never will.

I think it is too bad that so many Americans discount their priceless freedoms for security. Indeed, too many are ready to give up their freedom for security.Hello again, George:

Well, what is it? On the one hand you're a righty supporting the likes of George W. Bush. Then on the other, you lament his taking away our freedoms?? I don't know. What's your pleasure?

excon

I'm not Jewish but he sounds like my kind of rabbi!

excon, I always have my eye out for a white crow, but the soothsayers of security are generally Democrats, which you know very well. Those who will not make war are pacifists. Those that make war and quit before the objective is attained are traitors; they disrespect the ideals they professed and turn their backs on those making the sacrifice. I hate to say this but the Democrat Party has been loaded with traitors since the Korean War. The ones who took us into Viet Nam and then decided the price was too high should have been prosecuted, in my view; same with Iraq. I'm not leaving much room in the middle for those who can't make up their mind, but when they start counting votes or the shooting starts, you don't want to be in the middle.

Dear Rabbi Stewart Weiss,
War is hell. You chose your son's fate so you need to learn to live with it.

Forces: U.S. & Coalition/Casualties - Special Reports from CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2003/iraq/forces/casualties/index.html)
Iraq

There have been 4,210 coalition deaths -- 3,904 Americans, two Australians, 174 Britons, 13 Bulgarians, one Czech, seven Danes, two Dutch, two Estonians, one Fijian, one Hungarian, 33 Italians, one Kazakh, one Korean, three Latvian, 22 Poles, three Romanians, five Salvadoran, four Slovaks, 11 Spaniards, two Thai and 18 Ukrainians -- in the war in Iraq as of January 11, 2008, according to a CNN count. (Graphical breakdown of casualties). The list below is the names of the soldiers, Marines, airmen, sailors and Coast Guardsmen whose deaths have been reported by their country's governments. The list also includes seven employees of the U.S. Defense Department. At least 28,870 U.S. troops have been wounded in action, according to the Pentagon. View casualties in the war in Afghanistan and examine U.S. war casualties dating back to the Revolutionary War.

Mag,

As usual, you have missed the point. Rabbi Weiss isn't complaining over the loss of his son. He is just pointing out, one Texan to another, what he feels the President's policies should be, and what his son felt those policies should be.

Listing coalition casualties?. to what end? What's your point? And what of the over one million deaths of innocent Iraqis brought by Saddam? Are the 4,000 some odd casualties paid to bring 25 million Iraqis their freedom not worth the price? What price are you willing to pay for the freedome of 25 million Iraqis and 20 million Afghanis? What cost are you willing to incur for the ending of WMD programs by Iraq, North Korea and (if you happen to believe the NIE report) Iran? What is a reasonable exchange for the death or capture of tens of thousands of terrorists, and 2,316 days without a terrorist attack on US soil? (When you consider that in the 40 years before that, we generally got hit about once per year on average by a terrorist attack, that's a HUGE success by Bush, at what I consider a very low cost.) If you want to play the numbers game, I can do that too.



Why don't you move to Israel and help them out? Aliya! I mean, you really don't seem to give a damn about all the Goys and Gals fighting and dying for America.


First of all, been there, done that. I used to live in Israel. I served in the Israeli military, thanks. I stood a watch and got shot at, and maybe helped protect a few people from being killed by a raghead with a bomb vest. What have you done to fight terrorism?

Nothing, that's what.

Second of all, to say that I don't give a damn about those fighting the good fight is an absolute chutzpah. Not only was I one of them, but I have a cousin who is curently in Iraq in the US military, a good friend who is an army special forces Captain who just got back from Iraq, and several good friends who are on their way. I also have family living in the so-called "Occupied Terroritories" in Israel, family and friends who live in the "legitimate" parts of Israel that are getting bombed almost daily, and have friends and family that have died fighting terrorism. What have your friends and family sacrificed to fight terrorism?

Have you ever gone over to a soldier and said "thank you for your service"? Or bought a beer for a soldier in a bar? Or even sent a care package to a soldier overseas? Not only have I stood alongside them, I have done every one of those things for complete strangers, and more. You have no right to say that I don't care about them.

Seems to me that it is YOU who don't give a crap about them, their work, their accomplishments or their heroism. G-d forbid you should actually stand a post alongside them, but you actually have to go out of your way to tear down what they have accomplished. You claim to support them, but you are the first to blame them for so-called "abuse" of POWs, the first to say that the POWs should be freed and allowed to go back and shoot at the soldiers again, the first to say that not only are the soldiers not accomplishing anything, but their very mission is a war crime... and by extension every one of them are criminals. And you have the temerity to accuse ME of not giving a damn about them?

Screw you and the horse you rode in on.

Elliot

"First of all, been there, done that. I used to live in Israel. I served in the Israeli military, thanks. I stood a watch and got shot at, and maybe helped protect a few people from being killed by a raghead with a bomb vest. What have you done to fight terrorism?"


What have I done to fight terrorism? Learned to recognize you, the Zionist propaganda machine. The ones with dual Isreali / United States citezship.
You say I missed the point? I made the real point but since it is not what you are used to hearing you get nasty, as usual. That's fine, I like you best when you are showing us your true nature. Not all Americans are brainwashed Christian/Zionist whose church pastors have sold their souls for very, very large contributions.

Birth Pangs of a New Christian Zionism (http://www.thenation.com/doc/20060814/new_christian_zionism)

"First of all, been there, done that. I used to live in Israel. I served in the Israeli military, thanks. I stood a watch and got shot at, and maybe helped protect a few people from being killed by a raghead with a bomb vest. What have you done to fight terrorism?"


What have I done to fight terrorism? Learned to recognize you, the Zionist propaganda machine. The ones with dual Isreali / United States citezship.
You say I missed the point? I made the real point but since it is not what you are used to hearing you get nasty, as usual. That's fine, I like you best when you are showing us your true nature. Not all Americans are brainwashed Christian/Zionist whose church pastors have sold their souls for very, very large contributions.

Oh... Now I'm the "Zionist Propaganda Machine" am I?

Last I saw, I worked for a bank, not a newspaper. Which popaganda machine are you speaking of?

Furthermore, since when does dual citizenship connote a membership in any kind of political movement or propaganda machine? Are dual Canadian/US citizens part of the Canadian propaganda machine? Are dual UK/US citizens part of the British propaganda machine? How about dual French US/citizens?

If not, then you need to ask yourself why only dual citizenship with Israeli and US citizenship fits such a profile.

Frankly, I think your just an anti-semite. And no, there is no difference between being anti-Zionist and anti-semitic. All your past claims of loving the Jewish people and hating "only" Zionism or Zionists kind of sounds a lot like your claim to love the soldiers but 'only' hate the war.

And actions speak louder than words. Basically, what you have just said is that you have taken no action against terrorism except to identify ISRAEL as the problem...

Israel, the only state that has done more to fight terrorism world-wide than the USA has.

Israel, the only established democracy in the entire Middle East.

Israel, the only country to ever put its own national security at risk by staying out of a war when an enemy fired long-range missiles at it, just so that the USA could accomplish its diplomatic goals.

Israel, the only country to actually give up control of its holiest sites to its enemy in order to maintain peace.

Israel, the only country to forcibly evacuate thousands its own citizens from their homes in order to maintain peace, rather than just evacuating the ENEMY.

Israel is the enemy, right? They are the terrorists and the abusers, right? They are the cause of international terrorism against France, Spain, the UK, the USA, Australia, the Afghani people, the Lebanese, the Pakistanis, the Sudanese, the Russians, the Balians, the Japanese, the Bangladeshis, the Philipinos, etc.

ISRAEL, a country the size of New Jersey, is the source of all terrorism in the world.

And now that you have "identified the problem" and "made the real point" that nothing to do with the original post except that the OP was about Israel... now what? What's your next step? How are you going to stop this world power of the State of Israel that, according top you, holds the fate of the entire world in its hands? Should we invade Israel? Negotiate with them? Sanction them (because sanctions have worked so well with Cuba, Iran, and formerly with Iraq)? Not give them any more financial aide (because Israel can't make money on its own, of course, being the most capitalistic country in the entire Middle East)? Keep military information from them (because they don't have the best spies in the world, of course)? Not protect them (because they don't have the 2nd most effective military in the entire world)? What actions do you suggest we take against this country of evil, manipulative, nasty bunch Jews and Zionists?

This is your idea of fighting terrorism? Verbally attacking the only country that has been fighting this threat longer than we have. Brilliant, Mag.

And I'M the one getting nasty, right?

I respectfully suggest that you stick to US-based conspiracy theories about the US currency system. Because at least there you aren't doing anyone any harm besides yourself.

Elliot

Well Rabbi, if he is your best friend why is he aiding and abetting the enemy of Israel?

If the Jews of Nazi Germany would have had someone giving them aid and weapons, 6 million would not be dead today. I am not going to condone the outright slaughter of the palestinian people. I don't give a damn how you try to justify it. It is ethnic cleansing plain and simple. That makes you a sociopathic piece of **** in my book.
Let them fight for their land and let it piss you off that you can't just steal it by other sneaky means.

magprob writes: "It is ethnic cleansing plain and simple." I guess I missed this; may I assume you didn't see 'ethnic cleansing', and ask for your source? Many thanks.

ISRAEL'S APPROVED ETHNIC CLEANSING

Israel's treatment of the Palestinians has always presented a moral problem to the West, as that treatment has violated every law and moral standard on the books. Some 750,000 Palestinians were driven from their homes in 1948-1949, and since then scores of thousands more have been pushed out by force, their houses demolished or taken over by Israeli Jews (not Israeli Arabs). Under the supposed "peace process" following the signing of the Oslo Agreement in September 1993, a UN Special Report of November 13, 2000, says that "In the past seven years...Israel's confiscation of Palestinian land and construction of settlements and bypass roads for Jewish settlers has accelerated dramatically in breach of Security Council Resolution 242 and of provisions of the Oslo agreements requiring both parties to respect 'the territorial integrity and unity of the West Bank and Gaza Strip.' Since 1993 the settler population in the West Bank and Gaza has doubled to 200,000 and increased to 170,000 in East Jerusalem." The report also describes and condemns the demolitions of Palestinian houses, the diversion of water to Israeli cities and settlements, the policy of closures that has damaged Palestinian social and economic life, and the "widespread violation of their [Palestinian] economic, social and cultural rights" both within Israel and in the occupied territories. It also assails Israel's use of excessive force against Palestinians and hundreds of Intifada killings, "most of them unarmed demonstrators."

If the Jews of Nazi Germany would have had someone giving them aid and weapons, 6 million would not be dead today. I am not going to condone the outright slaughter of the palestinian people. I don't give a damn how you try to justify it. It is ethnic cleansing plain and simple. That makes you a sociopathic piece of **** in my book.
Let them fight for their land and let it piss you off that you can't just steal it by other sneaky means.
You are quite mistaken.

One thing Walid Shoebat (shoebat.com) pointed out in an interview which I found interesting is the plain fact that Palestinians can live in Israel but no Jew can live in Palestine. One must wonder what the response would be if Jews started emigrating to Palestine without revoking Zionism or recognizing the PA. Israeli Arabs are free to not only preach against Zionism in their mosques, but can live peacefully without recognizing it


Hypocrasy: Palestinians living in Israel - Reader comments at DanielPipes.org (http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/21516)

Amazon.com: The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine: Books: Ilan Pappe (http://www.amazon.com/Ethnic-Cleansing-Palestine-Ilan-Pappe/dp/1851684670)

Read all about it. It's time Americans read something, learn something about the holocaust they are supporting.

Hello mag:

I don't know. How do you ethnically cleanse people by giving them a house after your Army throws you out? How is it that after the Israeli's ethnically cleansed people, they keep on shooting rockets at innocent civilians?

I don't know. If it was ME doing the ethnic cleansing, there wouldn't be any of them around. But, that's just me.

But there's lots of them around. The Israeli's gave them a bunch of land called Gaza where there isn't a singe Jew. They can do what they want with it. So, they use it shoot at the Jews. They have a lot of guns too – BIG guns. I don't know how ethnically cleansed people get guns. Maybe you can tell me.

I also speak English. When I say black I don't mean white. I understand what ethnic cleansing is. I'm a Jew. You don't. You can make up words if that makes you happy.

I know none of this will penetrate.

excon

Hello mag:



But there's lots of them around. The Israeli's gave them a bunch of land called Gaza where there isn't a singe Jew. They can do what they want with it. So, they use it shoot at the Jews. They have a lot of guns too – BIG guns. I don't know how ethnically cleansed people get guns. Maybe you can tell me.

excon
Round eyes in America:D

It really is that simple? It won't sink in? You only get the news AIPAC allows you to.

Israel cancelled the east Jerusalem residence permits of a record number of Palestinians in 2006, effectively expelling them from the city, the human rights groups B'Tselem said on Sunday.

A total of 1,363 Palestinians had their residence permits withdrawn last year compared with just 222 in 2005, the watchdog said, basing its figures on interior ministry statistics.

The figure exceeded even the 1997 total of 1,067, the previous highest since Israel occupied Arab east Jerusalem in the 1967 Middle East war and then unilaterally annexed it.

Palestinians in east Jerusalem have the status of permanent residents of Israel, the same status granted to foreigners who settle in the Jewish state.

"Israel treats Palestinian residents of east Jerusalem as immigrants, who live in their homes at the benificence of the authorities and not by right," B'Tselem said.

"Treating these Palestinians as foreigners who entered Israel is astonishing since it was Israel that entered east Jerusalem in 1967."

I am certain, magprob, you will get other responses; your writer seems to have problems. One, he is communist? Second, check this: Critiquing Pappé's 2004 book, A History of Modern Palestine: One Land, Two Peoples, historian Benny Morris wrote in the New Republic:

'Unfortunately much of what Pappe tries to sell his readers is complete fabrication.. . This book is awash with errors of a quantity and a quality that are not found in serious historiography.. . The multiplicity of mistakes on each page is a product of both Pappe's historical methodology and his political proclivities.. . For those enamored with subjectivity and in thrall to historical relativism, a fact is not a fact and accuracy is unattainable'. [10]
Taken from : Ilan Pappé - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ilan_Pappe)

Thanks, in any event.

You are quite mistaken.

One thing Walid Shoebat (shoebat.com) pointed out in an interview which I found interesting is the plain fact that Palestinians can live in Israel but no Jew can live in Palestine. One must wonder what the response would be if Jews started emigrating to Palestine without revoking Zionism or recognizing the PA. Israeli Arabs are free to not only preach against Zionism in their mosques, but can live peacefully without recognizing it


Hypocrasy: Palestinians living in Israel - Reader comments at DanielPipes.org (http://www.danielpipes.org/comments/21516)

Daniel Pipes is a neo-conservative, orientalist, extreme right-wing Zionist

“A total of 1,363 Palestinians had their residence permits withdrawn last year.”

I understand your definition of ethnic cleaning better now.:)

Daniel Pipes is a neo-conservative, orientalist, extreme right-wing Zionist
So what, it does not change the fact Palestinians live in Israel and Jews cannot live in Gaza.

Look, I'm not arguing that atrocities have not been committed by Jews, only that it goes both ways; and that what is happing is not by definition “Ethnic Cleansing.”

I also don't believe the State of Israel should have come into being by mandate, but rather only through a Democratic process.

Now that Gaza has been gutted and sealed off? No economy, no trade, only food shipments from the UN. You call that a good thing. Ethnic clensing can be done in different ways. Gaza has been turned into a waste land and thrown to the dogs. I don't expect that to sink in though.

Dark_crow writes: "I also don't believe the State of Israel should have come into being by mandate, but rather only through a Democratic process." I am trying to think of one state that came into existence by 'Democratic process (sic)'. A little help, please. Well, other than the Confederate States of America, but we may not want to go there.

.:: The Palestinian International Campaign To End The Siege on Gaza ::. (http://www.end-gaza-siege.ps/IndexEn.htm)

http://www.end-gaza-siege.ps/EnReports/Reports/Gaza_Sitrep_2007_11_05.pdf

.:: The Palestinian International Campaign To End The Siege on Gaza ::. (http://www.end-gaza-siege.ps/IndexEn.htm)

http://www.end-gaza-siege.ps/EnReports/Reports/Gaza_Sitrep_2007_11_05.pdf
I'm curious, if you were in charge, what would you have Israel do and what would be the consequences for Israel from your action?

Dark_crow writes: "I also don’t believe the State of Israel should have come into being by mandate, but rather only through a Democratic process." I am trying to think of one state that came into existence by 'Democratic process (sic)'. A little help, please. Well, other than the Confederate States of America, but we may not want to go there.
That’s a “Red Herring.” The British or the UN could have held elections to form the government in Palestine.

The British or UN?? Give me a break.

The British or UN?????? Give me a break.

Expand please?

I, myself, as a military personelperson congratulate you on the fact that you are able to bring out heartfelt feelings. War is hell... but you did not choose the fate of your son. We choose to fight (and I don't know why) but we choose to fight for those who will never fight for us and we protect those who put you down. I apologize that for those people because they should not be bringing their pessicism around you. You hold strong because Your son (of whom you should be very very very proud of) died not in vain but protecting the rights of those who choose to complain. You are brave letting people know how you feel. God bless you.
Navy Seabee

Skell writes: "Expand please?" The UN is us, the US. It has never been able to create a state without the US, and probably can do nothing without the Security Council voting unanimously to approve. The USSR would never have consented to the UN taking that action.

As far as the British were concerned, an empire disintegrating with no stomach for more intanglements as it embraced socialism. The Brits have never looked after Jews as far as I am aware. It was illegal to be Catholic until the 1870's, right?

I, myself, as a military personelperson congratulate you on the fact that you are able to bring out heartfelt feelings. War is hell ...but you did not choose the fate of your son. We choose to fight (and I don't know why) but we choose to fight for those who will never fight for us and we protect those who put you down. I apologize that for those people because they should not be bringing their pessicism around you. You hold strong because Your son (of whom you should be very very very proud of) died not in vain but protecting the rights of those who choose to complain. You are brave letting people know how you feel. God bless you.
Navy Seabee

The Rabbi won't see this! The original poster quoted it from an article he read.

YouTube - If Americans Knew What Israel Is Doing! VIDEO WAS CENSORED! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynWjYHP91gA&NR=1)

Hello Mag:

The video is only several whacko anti-Semites like yourself. THAT'S your proof?? You're dingy.

You are blinded by anti-Semitism. Poor, poor fellow.

excon

It is ethnic cleansing plain and simple.

Ethnic cleansing, huh?

Exactly how many Palestinians have been killed by Israel since 1967 when the West Bank and Gaza fell into Israeli hands? Or forget "exactly". A rough estimate would be nice.

Don't you think that if Israel were engaged in "ethnic cleansing" there would be a lot fewer Muslims living in the West Bank and Gaza? Israel is the most technologically advanced country in the Middle East with the most powerful military in the Middle East. If they were engaged in "ethnic cleansing", don't you think that they would have carpet bombed the West Bank and Gaza by now? They haven't done so.

Let me tell you what an ethnic cleansing looks like. It looks like 2,000,000 dead Sudanese over a 20 year period. It looks like 6 million dead Jews in a period of 7 years. It looks like 1,000,000 Tutsis murdered by the Hutus of Rwanda. It looks like 200,000 murdered in East Timor. It looks like 100,000-200,000 dead Kurds in Iraq. It looks like 100,000 dead Bosnians and Serbs in 3 years.

Ethnic cleansing does not look like 700 or so dead Palestinians civilians over a period of 10 years.

I highly suggest that you review your definition of "ethnic cleansing" before we continue this conversation.

Elliot

Well Rabbi, if he is your best friend why is he aiding and abetting the enemy of Israel?

Excellent question... and frankly, that is the point of this letter: to point out the fact that Bush is getting bad advice, and needs to look at other points of view.

Still, I would argue (as I always have regarding Bush), watch what he DOES not what he says. So far, the only pressure he has put on Israel is verbal pressure. He hasn't done anything monetary, economic, diplomatic, etc. to apply any further pressure against Israel.

Elliot

Elliot, what I had in mind was the arms and money America is giving to the Palestinians.

I agree, in the Middle East, facts mean nothing to some people.

I am not going to condone the outright slaughter of the palestinian people.

Neither does anyone else... including Israel. Can you show me where such "outright slaughter" has taken place by Israel?


That makes you a sociopathic piece of **** in my book.

Uh... your books is a very short pamphlet. Lots of pictures, very few words, none of them more than one syllable. I suggest you find a new book.


Let them fight for their land and let it piss you off that you can't just steal it by other sneaky means.

STEAL THEIR LAND!!

Can you name two countries that have given up land that they won in a war started by their enemeies who wanted to wipe them off the face of the world? Can you name two countries that have given up land mass that equates to half of their territory to their enemies on the HOPE that there might some day be peace? Israel has done so not once, not twice but THREE TIMES now... two of those times while still under attack from the very people they were giving the land up to. First there was Sinai, then there was Lebanon, and now there is the West Bank and Gaza. The Sinai deal has worked out fairly well until now... Egypt continues to be a non-enemy (friend is hardly an accurate description). But Lebanon is controlled by Hezbollah and Syria, and continues to attack Israel 7 years after Israel exited Lebanese teritory. And the West Bank and Gaza have been in a constant state of war against Israel since 1987... despite Israeli pullouts of 95% of the West Bank and all of Gaza.

And you say that Israel is stealing THEIR land?

What color is the sky on the planet you live on?

For all your talk about how Israel should have been created via a "Democratic Process" rather than a "mandate", the fact is that it WAS a democratic process which created the State of Israel. The UN membership VOTED on UN Resolution 181 (128th Plenary Meeting of the UNGA, November 29, 1947). The results were:

In favour: 33
Australia, Belgium, Bolivia, Brazil, Byelorussian S.S.R. Canada, Costa Rica, Czechoslovakia, Denmark, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, France, Guatemala, Haiti, Iceland, Liberia, Luxemburg, Netherlands, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Norway, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Philippines, Poland, Sweden, Ukrainian S.S.R. Union of South Africa, U.S.A. U.S.S.R. Uruguay, Venezuela.

Against: 13
Afghanistan, Cuba, Egypt, Greece, India, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Turkey, Yemen.

Abstained: 10
Argentina, Chile, China, Colombia, El Salvador, Ethiopia, Honduras, Mexico, United Kingdom, Yugoslavia.

So excuse me if I dismiss your argument about Israel STEALING the land as pure BS. Because that is EXACTLY what it is. Not only did they not steal it, they have done more to give up land that is rightfully theirs than any other country in history... all 5,678 years of it.

Elliot

Elliot, what I had in mind was the arms and money America is giving to the Palestinians.

I agree, in the Middle East, facts mean nothing to some people.

Good point. But I think that Bush feels that he can do business with Abbas and Fatah, but can't with Hamas. So he's supporting Fatah and Abbas in their fight against Hamas.

From a purely STRATEGIC point of view, it's the right move. Best case scenario (though highly unlikely) is that Fatah wins the battle, Abbas makes peace with Israel, and we all live happily ever after. Worst case, Hamas wins and Israel goes back to open war with Hamas. Somewhere in the middle is the possibility that Fatah wins and doesn't make a permanent peace with Israel... but in that case, he or his successor will know who to hold responsible in the PA. If the fighting continues indefinitely between Fatah and Hamas, Israel benefits from weaker opponents on BOTH sides. So from Bush's point of view, there's no reason NOT to support Fatah in order to keep Hamas from winning. And it is in Israel's short-term benefit as well. (Longer term is a different story.)

Yes, from the point of view of a supporter of Israel, to see the USA support Fatah hurts. But from a purely strategic point of view, it really is the right move, and it really does help Israel's interests.

Pressuring Israel to sit back down at the negotiating table with its enemies who continue to attack them.. That most certainly is NOT in Israel's best interests. And that is exactly the reason that Rabbi Weiss wrote this letter.

When all is said and done, Bush really is the best friend Israel has had since Reagan. His actions now do not negate all the good he has done over the prior 7 years... marginalizing Arafat, letting Israel do what needed to be done to protect itself, maintaining a hands-off policy toward Israel, allowing Israel to build the security walls to protect themselves and stop 99% of terrorist bombings inside of Israel, etc. Bush, until now, has been an excellent President for Israel. Anything he does from this point on doesn't negate that.

Elliot

Good point. But I think that Bush feels that he can do business with Abbas and Fatah, but can't with Hamas. So he's supporting Fatah and Abbas in their fight against Hamas.
ElliotElliot
We as a Nation have been down that road in times past with other leaders in other parts of the world before, (supporting Fatah and Abbas in their fight against Hamas.) and how often did we regret it. If you look at the statistics Fatah has committed more terrorism than Hamas. I don’t think we should support either except for private humanitarian aid to the camps. From what I read the peaceful Palestinians want nothing to do with either.

DC,

Hey, I didn't say I thought he was right... just that I understand his reasoning and that it makes strategic sense from a logical point of view. The one thing that I know about the Middle East is that the usual logic doesn't work there. While Bush's logic is good, it will ultimately fail (as similar logic always has) because logic doesn't operate there as it does elsewhere.

Elliot

I understand now Elliot, and yeah, I don’t understand their logic either; but what is most puzzling is how they got our oil under their sand!:D

That's the point that so many people miss about the concept of "going to war for oil". It is completely unnecessary for the USA to go to war for oil. You see, while other countries produce most of the crude oil, WE produce 80% of the world's REFINED oil. Eventually, 80% of the crude oil in the world will have to come to us in order to be refined. We don't ever have to worry about getting oil, because nobody else has the capacity to refine it, and we could just simply keep what we need, while selling the rest on the open market. If other countries don't like it, they can build their own refineries... but they won't.

So when I hear people say that Bush went to war for oil, I just laugh, because that statement makes absolutely NO SENSE.

People always talk about how the Arabs control the oil market. But the fact is that they only control the CRUDE OIL maket. Iran exports huge amounts of crude every year, but they are also one of the world's largest importers of refined oil... and guess who they buy that from? If we decided to stop buying Iranian oil, and stop exporting refined oil to them, they would drown in their crude and they would freeze to death from lack of heating oil. The Arabs don't control the oil market. We do. It's just that so few people recognize that fact.

So if we control the refined oil market, why are gas prices so high?

Good question. Glad you asked it.

The fact that we refine 80% of the world's refined oil doesn't decrease the demand for that oil. We lack the capacity to refine more than we currently do, but demand is increasing. Same level of supply with increased demand means that prices are driven upward. We refine more than anyone else, but we need to do more than we currently are. And that means two things: 1) we need to build refineries and 2) we need to build them HERE, not overseas.

Now... does this mean that I don't want to see us make strides in alternative fuels? No. I think we should do that anyway, because I hate the idea of paying our enemies billions of dollars for oil, which they then use to buy the weapons that they use to attack us. I think we need to invest in alternative fuel sources, including shale oil, digging in ANWAR, renewable fuels like grain-based fuels, bio-diesel, hydrogen fuel, magnetic propulsion systems, electric vehicles, etc. But we are not in the crisis that so many people think we are.

Elliot

DC,

Hey, I didn't say I thought he was right... just that I understand his reasoning and that it makes strategic sense from a logical point of view. The one thing that I know about the Middle East is that the usual logic doesn't work there. While Bush's logic is good, it will ultimately fail (as similar logic always has) because logic doesn't operate there as it does elsewhere.

Elliot

So if you understand that normal logic doesn't work in the middle east, and everyone else understands it, then why doesn't the man you put in charge understand it? Is it just because he doesn't really understand much at all? I think so!

Skell writes: "Is it just because he doesnt really understand much at all? I think so!" I am no expert! However: International affairs is sort of like gang ethics. We pay non-allies to listen to us, and not listen so much to others. We pay for access. Most every country in the world has its hand out for payola when dealing with the US. Diplomacy has always been this way and always will. Woodrow Wilson wanted to clean up world diplomacy and where did he get? Isolationists have resented dealing with the world and where have we gotten?

Skell,

The answer to your question is that Bush has to play politics instead of actually acting according to what he knows to be right. Why? Because for the past 7 years, Libs have been doing nothing but pressuring him to do exactly that. Remember all that stuff about "unilateralism" and "acting without international approval"?

Seems to me that in the eyes of Libs like you, Bush is NEVER right, no matter what he does. If he acts according to what he knows (or even just believes) is right, he's accused or unilateralism. If he tries to act through diplomacy, he's being a fool who doesn't know anything.

I hate to say this Skell, but NOBODY is either right or wrong 100% of the time. But Libs try to portray Bush as being wrong 100% of the time. The law of statistical averages says that Bush has to be right at least ONCE in a while. Even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Elliot

Bush has to play politics instead of actually acting according to what he knows to be right. Why? Because for the past 7 years, Libs have been doing nothing but pressuring him to do exactly that.Hello El:

So, the libs are forcing him to fail. I understand now.

excon

PS> (Bwa, ha ha ha ha ha!)

Actually I believe Bush has been convinced that the weapons will only be used against Hamas. It's a gamble to avoid Hamas taking over completely. What is the alternative?

Hello El:

So, the libs are forcing him to fail. I understand now.

excon

PS> (Bwa, ha ha ha ha ha!)

Uh... pretty much, yes.

These are the same Libs who pushed the idea of diplomacy to Clinton... remember the failed talks with Arafat at Campt David, after Ehud Barak offered him over 95% of what he was looking for?

These are the same Libs who convinced Bush the Elder that the Oslo and Whye accords were "a pretty neat idea", despite 6 years of Intifada that preceded it.

These are the same Libs who have convinced Carter that Israel is a criminal state and the Palestinians are as pure as the driven snow.

So, yeah, it is the liberals who are pushing this agenda, and pressuring every administration to follow it. That Bush has resisted doing so for so long is practically a miracle, and is evidence of his personal moral fortitude. But even the strongest man only has so much strength.

What... you thought that conservatives were pushing an anti-Israel agenda?

Elliot

Hello Mag:

The video is only several whacko anti-Semites like yourself. THAT'S your proof?????? You're dingy.

You are blinded by anti-Semitism. Poor, poor fellow.

excon

An anti-semite is not someone who hates Jews; it is someone the Zionists hate.

Thank you Rob