Hello:

Criminal investigations usually wind up with somebody going to jail. I think it's going to be Bush and Alberto. Harriet is going to go to a woman's slam, and Cheney is going to be shot in the face at sundown.

Seriously, who's going to go to jail? Anybody?

excon

The investigation itself is perfectly appropriate and may answer a lot of questions I have about the CIA underming the administration. Maybe some real Langley insiders like perhaps Valerie Plame or George Tenet will be the focus of the probe ? Maybe prosecutor John Durham will slap a subpoena on the NY Slimes to reveal their sources in the CIA ?

I predict that the Congress will start howling their protests when they start their own hearings and find that the administration refuses to cooperate because of the on-going criminal investigation.

Hello tom:

The CIA destroyed evidence. They did it in consort WITH the White House. That actually happened.

However, in YOUR world, the bad guys in this are the CIA, the Democrats in congress, Valerie Plame and the NY Times. Your fearless leader, the dufus in chief, along with his fellow conspirators get a pass.

Dude, I think you've gotten into my stash.

Frankly, you represent a world that's an aberration. Don't worry, it's going to be fixed.

excon

Michael Hayden and John Helgerson both recused themselves . Until there is other proof it looks like an inside Langley snafu to me.

Seriously, who's gonna go to jail? Anybody?
These aren't regular people like you or I, they don't go to jail... for anything.

These aren't regular people like you or I, they don't go to jail...for anything.Hello Need:

When the world gets righted again, people like these DO go to jail. Way back when, I did time in the same federal prison camp that Halderman and Erlichman did. Nixon was about to go too.

Bush and his cohorts are worse, and they're going to get caught. Maybe not this time around, but they will.

excon

RE: Nixon -- "about to" and actually doing time are two different things. Excon, there are always going to be fall guys. It just is a matter of who it's going to be this time around. In today's world, the powers that be have become bigger teflon men than ever before. And, it will continue in that vein. As long as they have money and power, they can pay for that teflon privilege. And they do. I wish I had gone to law school and worked the Washington circuit. ;)

They did it in consort WITH the White House.

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I have seen no proof that there was any White House involvement in the decision to destroy the DVDs at all. All we know is that according to some news reports 4 White House staffers allegedly were asked their opinion about what to do with the tapes. There is nothing else beyond speculation.

When did a lack of proof ever derail one of these witch hunts?

Excon,

1) In order for someone to go to jail, there would have to be a crime. What was the cime here? Destroying documents that could compromise the personal safety of CIA agents? Isn't that what Fitzgerald tried to get Cheney on in the Valerie Plame case... endangering a CIA agent? Seems to me that you can't have it both ways. Either protecting the identities of CIA agents is paramount, or its not.

2) Are you aware of the fact that the CIA officials involved had gone to Congress' intelligence committees and informed them in advance that they were planning to destroy the tapes? That Congress has authorized them to do just that? That the CIA actually held off on destroying them for about 12 months after getting Congressional approval, just in case anyone had any questions? Where was the crime if they were authorized by Congress to do what they did?

As for investigations into the incident, what we really need to investigate is who leaked this information to the press. Why is it that every major intelligence secret seems to end up on the front page of the NY Times? THAT is an item worthy of investigation.

Sorry, no crime, no time.

Elliot

Hi Elliot,

So, by your reasoning, the CIA could videotape thousands of hours of torture but they should make sure to use "secret agents' in the footage so that the tapes can be destroyed. Sounds like a great way to run an agency.

Hi Elliot,

So, by your reasoning, the CIA could videotape thousands of hours of torture but they should make sure to use "secret agents' in the footage so that the tapes can be destroyed. Sounds like a great way to run an agency.

Frankly, I don't think any of it should have been taped in the first place, torture or not. But this stuff is generally taped so that analysts can go over the tapes with a fine-tooth-comb and analyze every word and detail. And in my opinion, as soon as the tapes are no longer needed, they should be destroyed, regardless of what or who might be on them. That's part of the whole "clandestine" thing.

So essentially, yes, the CIA could tape thousands of hours of interrogations, ranging from simple questioning to full-blown torture sessions, involving operatives ranging in security classification from desk clerk to super-spy, and I would say that ALL of it should be destroyed as soon as it is no longer needed... with or without Congressional approval.

Elliot

Hayden told CIA employees last week that the CIA taped the interrogations of two alleged terrorists in 2002. He said Congress was notified (http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2007-12-11-cia-hayden-testimony_N.htm) in 2003 of the tapes' existence and the agency's intent to destroy them. The CIA destroyed the tapes in November 2005. Exactly when Congress was notified and in what detail is in dispute.

Who's lying? According to TPMmuckraker's timeline of events:


CIA General Counsel Muller solicits opinions about potential destruction of videotaped interrogations from White House and Justice Department lawyers. Harriet Miers is the only lawyer whom the press has so far identified as discussing the potential destruction with Muller. It is not known who from the Justice Department participated. Reportedly, all advise against destruction, though it is unclear how strongly they express those views, or what opinions they commit to paper. Senior CIA leadership concurs.

Then in 2005, the director of the National Clandestine Service Jose Rodriguez Jr. "no fan of Goss's" as TPM puts it, ordered the tapes destroyed apparently without advising Goss, and against the recommendations of CIA, White House and Justice Dept. lawyers. Members of the Senate intelligence committee can't seem to decide (http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/004855.php) if they knew about the tapes or their imminent destruction or not (http://www.tpmmuckraker.com/archives/004847.php). Who's lying, and how does it add up to being a Bush administration crime?