Hello,

I am getting ready to wire my basement, but first have a few questions. My first question is in regards to if I am planning my circuit runs correctly. I have attached my drawing that shows each light and outlet and I also numbered each circuit run. Hopefully the drawing isn't too crammed! Am I going overboard with the number of circuits I have? Please let me know any comments you may have.

Also, I attached two pictures; one of the main panel and one of the sub panel. The main is 200 amp and the sub is 125 amp. I've tried to read through other posts regarding panel capacity but haven't been able to figure it out. Can you shed any light on whether my planned circuit runs will fit in my two panels?

I'm planning on using 12/2 romex on 20 amp breakers plus I'll be hard wiring the fireplace with a 240V.

Thanks in advance for your help. I just came across this site today and seems like I've been reading through posts for hours. I feel like I've already learned so much in just one day.

Lee

P.S. I'm having trouble uploading the two pics, so I'll try these later.

Well done! Outstanding job you did with the sketch.

The layout and design is good. Just a few comments:

Will need at least a smoke detector in the bedroom, and one in the general area outside the bedroom. One in the office would not hurt. Use all #14-3 cable, and interconnect all of these with any others in the building.

All the bedroom wiring needs to be on Arc Fault breakers. You may want to combine the lights and outlets on one two wire circuit dedicated for an AFCI breaker. Check local and state codes for changes, national code wants the detector on AFCI, many states waiver this and require detector to not be AFCI protected.

I need to know the total square foot of the remaining livable space, and list of all major electric appliances, type and size of heat and air conditioning to size the main service.

Oh and one biggie, a panel shall not be located in a closet. I doubt any state waived that code.

Thanks TK! I've been spending a lot of time planning this out and reading up on wiring techniques and requirements. I knew I forgot to include something in the drawing. I did plan for the smoke detectors. There is one already in the main living area when you first enter the basement. I realize I need one in both the B/R and the office, but you're saying I also need one just outside of the bedroom?

The main elec appl are range, fridge, oven, in wall microwave, dish washer, and garb disp (if that counts as major). I went downstairs and looked at the furnace/AC. All I could read on the inside sticker was "max unit amps 9.6". Does that help? The total square footage of the upstairs area is approx 2,400. This downstairs finished area will be around 1,300 - 1,500.

I'll have to check into the AFCI for this area. I'm in St. Louis, MO.

I wasn't aware of the no panel in closet. Even if it is a 14' x 7' walk in closet? I have included a link with a few pictures of the two panels and also the walk in closet area to give you an idea of what it looks like. Hopefully the link works.

Picasa Web Albums - Ozark - Basement Elec... (http://picasaweb.google.com/ozarktubular/BasementElectrical)

So you didn't see any overkill with the number of circuits I had? Do I really need the bathroom GFCI on a circuit all by itself? I can't put the bathroom lights and light/fan on the same circuit as the GFCI (but just not protected by the GFCI)?

Thanks for your advice / comments!! I really appreciate it.

Lee

Just want to comment on the panel in the closet. You will have to do something different with that space. Per code [240.24(D)], you are in violation.

I'll let TK finish up where he left off, I'm too lazy tonight to finish the rest :)

Thanks for the direct reference Washington. I start to get dizzy when reading the code book, so it helps when you know exactly where to go.

Well, that's just lovely. So can I bring my closet wall away from the breaker wall about 2-1/2 FT or so creating a little unfinished breaker closet? Then put a door in the clothes closet leading to this breaker closet? Does that make sense?

Or, do you have another solution, idea?

Lee

Creating a small utility closet to house the panel is fine, inside dimensions need to be a min of 30" wide and 36" deep for the clearances needed for the panelboard.

Yes, all lights and fan in a bathroom can be on the one 20 amp circuit and feed the GFI outlet. This circuit is dedicated for this bathroom only.

The SD in the office is not required as long as it stays an office, and not a bedroom. There must be one in the general area outside a bedroom. If the office can ever be used as a bedroom, then a SD will be needed.

I will get back later on the service size.

OK , on the service I had to assume a few things to complete the calculations, such as:

10KW for air conditioning
4.5 Kw for water heater
1500 sq ft for the basement

And along with the other loads provided, I arrive at a total calculated connected load of 158 amps, which will max out your 200 amp service.

The outlet and circuit layout is fine. I see no adjustments needed.

You may ask the local inspector for his opinion on the panel in the closet, see what you can negotiate.

The smoke detector inside and outside of bedrooms help notify of smoke or fire shoud the door be closed. Early Warning. Has saved Lives.
Since there is an office. I would home run some Cat 5's to Office, even to upstairs while ceiling is open, nothing faster or more secure than hardwire, Also consider Speakers, Alarm, Camera, Dual coax for TiVo. Or Sat and Cable.
Don't skimp on size of Electrical Boxes, especially if Dimmers are being used.

I think that is what I'll do. Bring the wall out 36" away from the breaker wall and make a unfinished closet. The depth will be 84", so no problem there. Instead of having two recessed lights in the closet, I'll only use one and move the other one into the breaker closet (obviously I won't use a recessed can light).

That's good news that I'll be able to fit all of these additional circuits on the existing boxes. Does it matter how I divide the circuit runs on the main and the sub panels? I was going to put 4 breakers on the main and the rest on the sub panel.

Stratmando, I am using a front projector (henced the ceiling outlet on circuit #2) displayed on a 106" screen plus the 5.1 surround system. I am running all of the speaker, CATV, video wiring, etc. for this system plus the office and bedrrom, but did not include it on the drawing. Hopefully it turns out as planned!!

It Does't get Cheaper or Easier than Now to run wires or Large conduit for future.

TK, does it matter how I divide the circuit runs on the main and the sub panels? I was going to put 4 breakers on the main and the rest on the sub panel.

Also, I assume you were saying that my total load will fit into my 200 amp box, correct? Just that it would be full from here on out?

Thanks for all of your advice!

Lee

I would add any large loaded circuits to the main panel, leaving the lightly
Loaded circuits for the sub panel.

If you agree with my assumptions of loads, then the 200 amp panel would be fully loaded. Any additional load of any significance will cause the service to be increased.

I had it mapped out to use the main panel for the two AFCI bedroom circuits, the dedicated bathroom circuit, and the fridge circuit. Then everything else (including the 240 electric fireplace) on the sub.

I guess I could add the other bar outlet circuit and the bar lighting circuit to the main to take some load off the sub.

So really the only heavily loaded circuit on the sub will be the elec fireplace. Does this sound reasonable?

P.S. I'm almost finished running all of the 12/2 wire for outlet circuits, so it's moving right along. Thanks for the help!

Yes on the fireplace, and perhaps the small appliance circuits at the bar also.

Can you provide some pictures of your installation?

I think it would be very informative to others.

Sure I would be happy to post pictures as I go!

I just want to clairfy your answer (sorry to bug you). You're saying that having the 240 electric fireplace and the small appliance bar circuits on the sub panel is OK? I will also have 6 or 7 outlet/lighting circuits on that sub as well.

I only have 5 or 6 more slots left on the main panel, so I have to be selective in what I put on there. However, the sub panel has plenty of open slots.

TK, Can you provide some guidance on how to wire the bedroom light circuit and then continuing to the four lights outside the bedroom? I was going to run the power from the main panel to the first light, continuing to the other three lights and then ending at the switch. However, I also need to keep the power going to the next switch which is outside of the bedroom.

I want to know exactly how I'm going to do this before I run the wire.

I should be able to get some pictures posted tomorrow. Things are moving along pretty well.

It is OK to have other devices on an AFCi breaker outside of the bedroom. If you want, just continue the bedroom circuit for these lights.

The utility closet idea may be a blessing. With proper planning, you can use it to house all your networking, telephone, A/V wiring etc. It will be very nice having all that distributed from one area like that. I'm thinking you may want to leave that closet unfinished too.

One other thing. I realize you didn't post pics of your entire basement, but do you have egress windows where required?

Cobra, I will be putting in a hub for phone, cable, sat. etc over by the sub panel. There is a lot of unfinished space over there and that is where the phone and things enter the house.

Here are some pictures so far. Sorry for the mess, I haven't started cleaning up yet. There's not too much to see right now. Just framing and some electrical.

Merry Christmas to all!

Picasa Web Albums - Ozark - Basement Elec... (http://picasaweb.google.com/ozarktubular/BasementElectrical)