Sorry for the spelling error in the subject. Should be revisited.

About a month ago I posted a question on this board and got some good answers.

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/plumbing/water-cuting-off-141742.html

About three weeks ago the breaker started tripping anytime the pump was on for an extended time (ie.. filling up the washing machine or my wife taking a long shower). The plumber that installed the new pump, wiring, and preasure switch last month told me to put in a bigger breaker. It had a 20 amp two pole breaker, and he told me to put in a 30amp two pole breaker.

After installing the bigger breaker the water worked fine for a week. No issues at all. In fact, the lights in the house barely flickered or dimmed when the pump came on.

This morning while in the shower the lights in the house flickered heavily for about 15 seconds then the water quit. I noticed the pump trying to come on, the lights flicker for a couple of seconds, but no water. The breaker is fine, and hasn't tripped.

When I left for work, I cut the breaker off, so the pump would not be draining electricity all day if it was trying to cut on.

Have I burned up a pump this quick?

Thanks for any ideas/help you can give. This problem has me mentally worn out.

Here is a theory that the plumber just gave us. We're going to try it tonight. When we originally replaced the pump the wiring, was horrible, so we replaced all of that from the pump to the preasure switch.

He's thinking that from the box to the preasure switch the cabling might be horrible also. He wants us to buy new cabling and hook it up just across the ground to see if this solves the problem. He said exposed wires coming in contact with moisture or anything, might be shorting the whole thing out.

That would explain the flickering lights, and the breaker tripping.

If this fixes it we will probably bury the line in some sort of conduit, I think wire is just laid in the ground right now. Don't know if that is normal or just a crappy job by that guy that renovated the house before we bought it.

If anyone thinks this is dumb or has something to add please feel free.

In your original post of several weeks ago you mentioned replacing the wiring to your submersible pump since it had several breaks in it. Assuming you have buried cable to your pump, it could very likely have similar problems. However, that would more typically throw the breaker. Since you moved to a larger breaker, perhaps the short to ground is not sufficient to do that YET. At any rate, I had the same problem several years ago. Problem started intermittently, then became more frequent as time went on until the breaker would not stay on at all. Once I pulled up the old cable, the problem was easily apparent. I don't see how it worked as well as it did. Assuming the distance is not too great, you can get 10 gauge UF wire for less than $1.00/foot. Not sure if you need 10 gauge or larger... just an example, but you will want to use UF underground. Putting it in conduit is optional unless you have code that warrants otherwise. Hook it up above ground (pretty easy) and see what happens. Bury it if the problem is solved... not necessary to dig up the old. Honestly, I would not run that pump until you get this problem solved. I don't like the idea of the pump not kicking completely on.

Well the latest is rather disturbing news. Have 2 different plumbers helping me now. We installed new conduit from the breaker box to the preasure switch. Turned it on and got nothing. We re-seated every wire making sure connections would made, and got nothing.

We brought out a voltmeter and checked and we had power going down to the pump, but nothing was happening.

The theory at this point is that the pump is blown again. We only got 2 months out of this pump. There is plenty of water, and we never had symptoms that made it seem like the pump was sucking in air.

I'm baffled, because I know the pumps are supposedly engineered so that they last a good long time.

The second plumber I brought in said the big power surge, that in mentioned in the first post, was probably the motor locking up in the pump.

Well, the pump should be under warranty. Whoever installed it should be ready to help you out. At least I would think that would be the case.

Thanks for the responses. We replaced the pump today, and we have water again. There was no problems from anyone replacing and installation was all free.

We've been told to get an electrician to come and look at our external breaker box, because they think it is something electrical causing the problem. We have already had Duke Power out today to verify it is not their problem, which they said it wasn't.

Guess we will the electrical route, and hopefully get it fixed. Don't want to have to replace the pump again, for sure.

Glad it worked out for you. You might want to mention to the electrical guy that you increased the breaker size. That is typically NOT a solution to an electrical problem. The breaker throwing is kind of like a headache... symptom of a problem.

Best wishes.

You guys are not going to believe this... or maybe you will. All of our problems got resolved today, well mostly. We know what has caused us 2 months of headache and irritation.

Today we had my wife's dad, an electrical engineer, and a different plumber friend here today. We were checking voltages running from the breaker box to the well. Everything looked normal, so we're about to give up for the day, when the plumber friend asks to see the box that the latest pump came in.

I got the pump out and he was looking at it, and all of a sudden he went "There's your dog on problem". We had a 115watt pump and we were pumping 230watts to it. Talking about an overload of electricity. He putt one leg of the power into ground so that only 115watts was going to the pump, and all of a sudden the power stopped blinking, the pump was running silent instead of an electrical humm that we could hear in the house. It was amazing what one wire change did.

We even sorted out how this whole thing happened in the first place: Sorry for the long post, but maybe it will help someone in the future.

Previous owner of the house dug a new well. Wanted to get the cheapest pump he could get, so he bought the 115watt pump and put one leg of the power to ground. We pulled the initial pump up and wrote down the wattage and bought 115watt and replaced it. Only when we wired back into the breaker we hooked both legs again because, well, that's how it's supposed to go. It never even crossed our minds that we were undoing a "jerry rig" that was put in long before we owned the house.

So now we have it set at 115watts for the week until we can take it out and replace it with the correct one. Such a relief to have this finally figured out.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions on this thread and the previous one. Much appreciated.

Glad you got it worked out. Just curious. It the pump is working for you, then why replace it?

I just assumed it would be better to have it hooked up right, running 230 like it is wired. I guess it really doesn't matter.

If we leave it like it is, wouldn't we need to install a smaller breaker? 20amp breaker would not protect it, would it?

I emailed our electrical expert asking him to look this. I think you need to reconnect the grounded wire to the pump, replace the double pole breaker with a single pole one and move one of the wires to the neutral bar of the panel. If neither of the wires on the breaker is white, mark the one you connect to the neutral white at both ends.

Unless the directions for the pump, say 20 amp, I would go with a 15 amp breaker, and add a slow blow fuse a little over the running amps of the pump. Pumps and other motors briefly draw higher current on start up.

Before I continue with any advice, I need to know the horsepower of the pump. That is what will determine the size of the breaker.

I went back to the other post and found the pump is 115 volts 1/2 HP.
This needs a single pole 20 amp circuit breaker.

Am I following this correctly, one, a 120 volt pump was fed with 240 volts, and it kept running or did not do any damage?

And now, to change the feed to 120 volts, a wire was connected to ground?

I am curious how this is connected to "ground". Did you only use one of the two 240 volt hot legs, and connect the neutral return from the pump to the bare equipment ground wire? If so, this is still not wired properly.

And, someone has to say it, may as well be me, it took a plumber to figure out the voltage rating of the pump was different that the supply voltage, and not the electrical engineer?

I assume the word "watts" was in error and meant to mean volts?

Are there water pumps that use 220 or 230 volt current for home water lines? I didn't know that. That type of motor would seem really heavy duty compared to the ones I'm used to... Is there a lot of deep wells? I guess I'm wondering if there is a need for such a strong pump in your area?? Thanks, this was interesting reading.

I think you have to hunt for for a 120 volt one. I just dodged the bullet of replacing my 240 volt one by cleaning the check valve. No fun last week with it being over 40' under the ground.

If I didn't think you should follow his advice to the letter, I wouldn't have given tkrusell a heads up on this one.

Before I continue with any advice, I need to know the horsepower of the pump. That is what will determine the size of the breaker.

I went back to the other post and found the pump is 115 volts 1/2 HP.
This needs a single pole 20 amp circuit breaker.

That is correct, it is 115 volts 1/2 HP


Am I following this correctly, one, a 120 volt pump was fed with 240 volts, and it kept running or did not do any damage?

The first pump it took almost 2 months hooked up wrong, before it died. That is not to say that there wasn't damage, only that the previous pump went 2 months before it finally burnt out.


And now, to change the feed to 120 volts, a wire was connected to ground?

I could be descibing this wrong. The conduit had 1 black wire, 1 white wire, and ground. The plumber took the white wire and connected it somewhere else, I assumed it was ground. He said this would complete the circuit so that it was only sending 120 volts. Pump has worked correcly since this was done.


I am curious how this is connected to "ground". Did you only use one of the two 240 volt hot legs, and connect the neutral return from the pump to the bare equipment ground wire? If so, this is still not wired properly.

Yes, there is only one hot leg going to the pump now. Plumber said that it wasn't wired right, but would allow the pump to work correctly with the correct voltage until we rewired it correct, or until we got the correct pump.


And, someone has to say it, may as well be me, it took a plumber to figure out the voltage rating of the pump was different that the supply voltage, and not the electrical engineer?

Lol. In the electrical engineers defense, he was on the phone, and not actually here. The plumber actually had eyes on the system.


I assume the word "watts" was in error and meant to mean volts?

Yes, your assumption is correct.

Based on your description, you have it hooked up right now since you are using a 120 volt pump. It is not made to run on 240volts. I would put the original 20 amp breaker back on since that is what was there originally. You actually take a bigger risk as you increase the size of the breaker, not the other way around. However, I don't understand why anyone ever had a double-pole breaker (basically, two single pole breakers bridged to work together) on this circuit. If you are only using one "leg" of the circuit for 120 volts(and you are), then only one breaker will be working. BTW, if you take out the second breaker, then you won't have to worry about an unused hotwire at your well.

My bet is this is not wired right, my guess is the white from the pump connects to the bare in the feeder. This is why the plumber said it was not wired right.

Change the feeder white from the breaker and move to a neutral bar in the panel, and connect the pump white to it.

TK, would it be a reasonable guess that the pump was originally 240 volts and was at some point replaced (perhaps unwisely) with a 120 volt pump? I can't help but wonder why there was a double pole breaker if the first pump was not 240.

It probably started as 240 volts, I think I remember the OP stating that someone before him changed the pump out.

Every well water pump I have done was 240 volts.

I guess that 120 volt motors are used also,

They do make them. I looked around a little last night and found one... half-horse.

If Pump has 240 Volt wiring option, would consider 240 Volts to remain.