I am 34, married. I love my wife, but I don't get enough from her
As some husbands do...

My girlfriend is 24, being my student at the university, my girlfriend and my closest colleague for the last 2.5 years.

We both worked for a government organization, and we established
A private computer software company with her 3 months ago.

She is the only source of myself estem and encouragement for
Doing large projects, and even for my happiness at the home
With my wife and 2 kids.

She is a virgin, and wants to remain until her marriage. So we have had everything except the type of sex that hurts her.

Now, while I love her very much, she has started talking to a man
For marriage.

I am very depressed and I have lost all my hope.

She must remain in the company, since she is a technically
Active person and we need her.

She will become a normal employee... without continuing our relationship.

What should I do?
I can not forget her while seeing her everyday...
Can we continue our sex relationship some day, without
Affecting her life with her husband ?

What you are doing is wrong to say the least. If you loved your wife you would not be doing this to her. You say this girl gives you the self esteem you need etc - but could it be that you are in love with this girl and you only love your wife? There is a big difference to loving someone and being in love with someone. Either way if this girl has founf someone she loves and wishes to marry then this is where your relationship stops. She sounds like a very traditional girl who will commit to her marriage 100%.

You really need to think about your situation!

Are you really happy with you wife? Are you really in love with her?

This situation is very wrong and I can see there underlying issues here which need to be addressed.

Fredge, Crankie, jesushelper what do you think?

How you can so casually betray your life partner and just as casually try to figure out how you can continue down this path is beyond me.Just when I thought I'd seen it all her you come with this crap!You come off as a selfish single minded person who doesn't care about anybody but you.If you continue down this path I predict that your life will unravel so fast your going to wonder what happened and the funny part will be you won't have a clue as to what happened.You need the kind of help only a highly trained professional can give you,and you need it now.Take off the blindfold and see how close to the edge of the cliff you are standing and take a look at how far you can fall.Then look around and see all the innocent people you are going to take with you.Think about all the havoc you have already put into the lives of your own family that they don't even know about YET!Do you care for them at all?Obviously not!What are you going to do when your 24 year old honey tells you to kiss off,will you be lost or just go get another one,and just keep on doing what your doing?How dare you treat the human beings around you like so much s*****t!:mad: :( :mad:

How you can so casually betray your life partner and just as casually try to figure out how you can continue down this path is beyond me.Just when I thought I'd seen it all her you come with this crap!You come off as a selfish single minded person who doesn't care about anybody but you.If you continue down this path I predict that your life will unravel so fast your going to wonder what happened and the funny part will be you won't have a clue as to what happened.You need the kind of help only a highly trained professional can give you,and you need it now.Take off the blindfold and see how close to the edge of the cliff you are standing and take a look at how far you can fall.Then look around and see all the innocent people you are going to take with you.Think about all the havoc you have already put into the lives of your own family that they don't even know about YET!Do you care for them at all?Obviously not!What are you going to do when your 24 year old honey tells you to kiss off,will you be lost or just go get another one,and just keep on doing what your doing?How dare you treat the human beings around you like so much s*****t!:mad: :( :mad:

Well said talaniman!

alia2

How can you even think this is acceptable and talk about it as if every man does this?? You are the type of guy that all women fear and avoid when it comes to relationships.

Imagine if your wife knew about this? She would be horrified and second of all left hurt, betrayed and most of all her heart left in pieces. How can you do this??

Oh gee thanks for thinking about your poor wife and your children. Sorry if I'm not too sympathetic to you but my husband left me for a anorexic sycopath not too long ago and I gave more than I should have during our relationship. If you love your wife and wish to stay with her there's a few things you need to know.1. get rid of the young chick(what is your wife not good enough because she's not 24?) 2. your wife will never ever gain her trust back unless you carry a video camera everywhere you go. 3. Her selfesteem will be ruined. 4.after awhile she won't give a float if you leave. Now as far as your little girl toy she's wanting to marry someone else. I think its highly obvious that you have given up on your wife from the questions you have asked in your post. So the best thing I say you could do is pack up your bags, tell your wife about what's going on( make sure she's not near any sharp objects when you do), then leave and look for a divorce lawyer. Unless your wife is a danger to your children I would not try to fight her for custody of the children as young children belong with mama. Just letting you know cause your wife has enough to deal with about your affair she doesn't need you trying to punish her by taking her children. Im wondering just what was it your wife does not give you? Maybe while you have your guess what honey speech you could talk to her calmly about what went wrong and let her talk about something's to. Im thinking with as selfish as you sound there are bound to be many things she could tell you about yourself. I bet there are things you don't do for her.

If you can get past the fact that I think you're a termite, then you can continue reading and maybe this will help you. It's so sad to know that a 30-something year old man with a certain degree of education has so little common sense and decency but I suppose book knowledge has very little to do with character and commitment.

Did you ever talk to your wife and tell her what you "were not getting from her"? If you did speak to her about it, did you suggest going into therapy? If she showed no interest in that either, then at that point you could have asked for a separation to see if she would change her mind.

What I'm getting at is that you cheapened your relationship and lowered yourself by not taking the appropriate steps. Had you done all of the following, allowed her a little time to consider her options, you could have then filed for divorce based on the fact that she was not willing to work on the marriage. Then, becoming involved with this student who by the way is ridiculously too young for you would not have been cheating, technically.

Did you ever stop to think that perhaps your wife is not getting what she would like or need from you either?? Did she cheat on you too and fall in love with another man? You'd be amazed how much you can get out of a relationship when you give. Now, I understand that what you may be missing from your wife may not just pertain to sex. It could be a number of things. She's not tender enough, she's not supportive enough, she's not smart enough or funny enough, yada, yada, yada... THAT'S NOT A GOOD ENOUGH REASON TO DO WHAT YOU DID. Why? Because you knew all of these things before you married her and married her anyway! I am so sick and tired of hearing about people who marry an apple but they really wanted an orange and maybe by marrying them, they will auto-magically change! That's just ignorant. And then... to add the complication of children, not one, but two.

Let this young girl go. One day, when she is married with children, and very in love with her husband, she will think back to this time with you and feel remorse and pain... for your wife, because she would not want to have the same done to her... for any reason. She is not on the same playing field as you, I don't care what you say. Can you honestly tell me that when you were 24 that you were at the same place mentally that you are now? Did you not grow in those 10 years?? Did things not change for you? The things that were important at 24 are not the same at 34.

Your only question was what was going to happen to you. Poor little you.
Change jobs, stay away, I don't care if you have to flip patties 18 hours a day at McDonalds, just get out of there. If you have an ounce of dignity and care left for your family, then return to them. If this was the only time you were unfaithful, don't unload your burden on your wife. She should be spared this crap. If you think you're just a cheating bastard that will do this again and again then you do need to tell her, she deserves the opportunity to slap you before she boots your *** out. I hope for the sake of your children, and how they will view you when they are grown, that this is put far behind you and you never commit such an act of sheer selfishness and stupidity again. They didn't ask to be born into a broken home, visiting daddy, that's not right.

Go back into the frame of mind that had you fall in love with your wife in the first place. Talk, talk, talk. Don't accuse, don't point fingers. If you need the help of a third person, see a good family therapist, but don't let your family slip away. Fulfill your commitment and obligation to them and I swear it will make you feel more love in return. Take your wife out on dates again, just like when you were boyfriend and girlfriend. Stop wasting time, money and energy on that girl and dedicate it on your entire family. Don't wait for those feelings to come back, get off your *** and find them, they are there. You'll be freaking Superman.

Thank you all for paying attention to me, this 'poor' and 'bad' man.
I visited this site today, and from its name, I assumed that someone
Will really HELP me, not kicking me up a row for my feelings!

Let me describe more about this situation, and please note that
I have tried many ways, and a therapist proposed me to have
A GF after telling '2' below to him :

1) My wife is good and supporting, but she is too busy with her job as
A teacher, she works even at the week ends (not for money, but
For loving her job and for being afraid from their school's manager)
Except having very small tits, she has no other body problem.

2) A root of my problem is in wife's sister, who is very attractive, and
They 'hide' her from me at the start of my marriage, although my mom
Was the first one who had seen her for marrying with me, and they
Proposed the older sister...
I became aware of this after our marriage, and unfortunately we were
Living with them (my sister-in-law and her mother) in a home for 3 years.
I had no relation with her but she ruined my feelings to my wife at
That time, and I recovered from that with the help of my girlfriend.
The therapist told me (in the absence of my wife!) "you can be with
every girl you want except your wifes sister."

4) I am not a 'visiting' parent. I think I am paying enough attention
To my kids and they are happy with their life. I am also paying as much
Attention to my wife as she is at home!
I don't think divorce to be a good way. We live in a middle eastern country
Which divorce is not a normal thing, and neither me nor my wife or kids
Can continue our normal life after that.

5) I think I am not the only man who has such a life style (good or bad).
Although I know that there are many men, who are happy or pretend
That they are happy only with their wife's.
But the God has not created us with similar feelings and needs.

6) A friend of mine, who has many GF's in addition to her wife, has a different discipline. He says :
"A man can fulfil all of a woman's [sexual] needs, but NOT vice versa."
"I believe in an English proverb about girls which is consisted of 4 'F's : Find them, Fool them, **** them, Forget everything about them"!!!
He also says :
"You should have feelings only to your wife, and
Use other girls only for sex, with a smell of love, like gifts,.
But don't be afraid losing any of them because of her marriage,.
You can find a replacement and you will FORGET the first one, even
If she is working with you, keep work and sex separate matters... "

I really need your help to 'manage' my feelings.
And the fact is that I can not fill this gap only with my wife.

Is this an arranged marriage?
I do believe you should divorce and in a hurry.


(I'm so tempted to call troll on this)

It is time for me to be Dr. Phil.

But first,
"Except having very small tits, she has no other body problem.". Ummmm, how is having small tits a body problem?

Anyway,
You have an entirely different mentality on marriage as we do. To us here in the western world, we have free marriages and divorces where as you have arranged marriages and no divorces.

Here it is simple.

1) Divorce your wife, marry your girlfriend.
2) Stay with you wife, let you girlfriend go, and find a new girlfriend (since obviously you need to have at least 1 girlfriend because apparently that is how your culture is).

There is NO WAY for you to keep your girlfriend, unless you marry her. So suck it up, and choose. I would recommend leaving your wife and marrying your girlfriend since you seem to be in love with the girlfriend. But, it is YOUR choice... or is it? I'm not quite sure how things in the eastern world work.

You should have said all that stuff from the beginning. We are not accostumed to our husbands having 50 girlfriends SO yes it is only natural that we attacked as we did. I understand things in your country are different. Is your marriage arranged? That can really suck for many reasons. Can't you talk to your girlfriend and you can have two wives? They allow that over there don't they? Pst- sometimes I wish they allowed that over here cause us american women could use the extra help around the house and if you have a head ache you could always tell one of the other wives" its your turn." There would probably be less jealousy and less diseases to worry about. Karma, what do you mean by troll? Trolls are bad luck you know.

You sure could have saved yourself and me a lot of grief by sharing the whole story with us from the get go.Your actions and questions take on a whole new meaning now that I have more facts to deal with.I apologize as I thought you lived here in America and the customs of your(?) country are strange to me.I do not know enough to make an opinion or give advice to your situation.sorry and good luck!:cool:

We did not kick you up a row because of your feelings, we kicked you up a row for being a cheating rat.

Having said that, I do understand now that you come from a country whose customs practically encourage having multiple women in your life, in addition to your wife. I don't agree with it, but I do understand that it is normal for you to conduct your marriage this way because this is how you were raised.

I believe that you must move on from your girlfriend, especially since she has already done so. I also believe that your friend's remark "A man can fulfill all of a woman's (sexual) needs but NOT vice-versa" could not be more wrong, the proof lies in the fact that your own girlfriend has moved on and begun speaking with another man about marriage. Perhaps it is also because she did not feel that you fulfilled all of her sexual needs so she went to one who could?

It would be a good idea for you to relocate yourself and find other employment. Being near her all the time will only complicate things for you, your family and her of course. Seeing her will only intensify your feelings of loss and since there is nothing you can do about it, there is no point. Since divorce is not a good practice in your country (not in any country really) expecting your girlfriend to remain with you without the promise of marriage is not fair to her. She's young and would like to have a commitment and a husband.

Your children appear to be the only constant, reliable source of love and commitment you have and that is why I suggested spending more time with them, enough is never enough, especially if your wife seems to be always working, they need the bond of at least one parent. Spend all the time with them that you would have spent with your girlfriend.


It is really too bad that your wife spends too much time with work, you and the children should be her primary focus and obligation. Her absence I'm sure is contributing to the depletion of your feelings for her, although I don't believe that your feelings for her were ever truly very strong. If merely seeing your sister in law ruined your feelings for your wife, they could not have been very intense to begin with.


Make the best of a bad situation. I know it will be difficult but you aren't left with many alternatives. Good luck.

Unfortunately you're married to someone else and she's about to be married. You both have commitments to other people so sex is going to be off-limits for the two of you. Try talking things over with your wife and see if the two of you can "mend fences." That'll be your best bet for happiness and fulfillment at this point.

I honestly do not care what country you come from or what back ground you come from. Having a wife and children and being together with them should be the most important thing. To have girlfriends on the side is not right. Eighter get divorced then you can have all the girlfriends you want or stay married and stop seeing other girls. There will be consequences to these actions you take. It is not treating your wife properly and no changing the opinion of that.

Joe

Come on Jesushelper76.

He has a totally different culture and mantality than we do. We shouldn't super impose our beliefs on to him.

Isn't that why the middle east hates America and the western world? Because they don't like American (western world) values? We all need to learn to be more tolerant of differerent cultures.

How about stop seeing other women while you are married.

Decide if you want to give your wife every penny you have, the house, the cars and also about 1/3 of your check for the next 10 years or so??

How about stop making excuses for cheating on your wife.

If you want to stay with her ( and she deserves a lot better) go get counseling together.

You are risking your carrerr and your marriage on this affair that is not self worth, ( or if it is, it shows you are not worth very much in my book anyway

Earlier I blasted your actions becauseI did not know other things about you(your culture/religion) and I assumed you were from America.MY bad! After reading your other post my opinion really hasn't changed as I see my original assessment of your actions were right on the money.You have shown a truly selfish attitude toward your life and no matter what the rules of your culture you still only think of you and your feelings with a callous desregard for others around you!You don't care about your wife or girlfriend only what's in it for you.This is very obvious!Even playing by the rules of your own culture a man is still honor bound to take care of his wife and family but as you said you didn't like her anyway after you saw her sister.It is very hard for me to respect your feelings when you show no effort to do the man thang and respect your own house let alone the impending marriage of your girlfriend.The only advice I can give you is to ask the God that you understand to forgive your poor *** and give you guidance in the right direction.good luck with finding your soul!:cool:

talaniman.

I was about to say that this was an arranged marriage and he didn't have a choice, but now I am wondering why I keep defedning this guy, who seems to have disappeared.

So, yes, he is selfish and is only looking out for his needs, and I will leave it at that.

Let your girlfriend go. Stay with your wife. Try to make it work with your family.

Captain,

This person has no respect, no love, and no caring for his wife or children. It is obvous that his so called girlfriend is more important. Anyway you put it, it is not right. I think you understand that.

Joe

Thank you for your replies, I really learned new things from some of them.

And some more things related to the replies above :

1) It is true that the 'culture' here is somewhat different from Western
but here, when someone is relaxed and open with his/her colleague or
family member of opposite sex , they say "they are treating like
Europeans (or Americans) !".
We actually know little from each other's culture, and I think
that we know even little about ourselves and what the culture
really is consisted of.
Once I read a report on 'outside marriage relationships' in the US,
and I remember some statistics :
- Near %20 of 'married men' had relationship with 1-3 girls
(not including prostitutes) outside their marriage, and near %5 of men
had this with 4-6 girls!
- Also near %15 and 4% of 'married women' with 1-3 or 4-6 other men
respectively.
(The report was published almost 20 years ago and it may be different now).

2) I do not agree with having 50 girlfriend as or even having 2 wives
as you said! It is also legally forbidden here to have a 2nd wife without
the permission of first wife. And even if the wife permits, such a man is
rejected by the public society and even by his relatives.

3) I did not select this girl for relationship because of being nice
(if we could 'rate' people's faces, she would get 12, my wife=15,
my sister-in-law=18 of 20!) But I pleased supporting her, finding job
for her, learning new things, talking about our problems with each
other and many other things. Sex for me is only good on top of
these non-sexual pleasures.

4) Like most of you, I do NOT believe that having sex with someone's
wife is good thing, it was just a question for me that after her marriage,
when we are alone at our company, can we resist on laying down with
each other? Or we will recall our past relation and...

And finally, it is intersting for me to know that what do you married
men do there, when you want it, and she is not ready (being busy,
being in menstural cycle, or... )? Do you ALWAYS dump your need?
Or you think it is not so important?
And what you will do when you are spending lots of time with
a girl (or married woman) alone at your work? Do you pay attention
only to the work itself all the time?

Once I worked on a night shift as a nurses assistant. The man who owned the home I worked in lived up stairs with his new wife. Sometimes I ran into him while cleaning or taking care of things. I mentioned to a co-worker that I thought our boss was hot so lo and behold my friend goes a blabs it to the boss. He told my co worker that he wanted me and I could have him anytime I wanted him. I never went after him because he was married and he never made a move for me. Eventually he let me go from the job because his wife found out from someone else that there was an attraction between us and it upset her. I can't say I blame him for protecting her. Men here are always having affairs with secretarys and nannys, and house maids and even co workers and women do such things too. But it is not all men and women that do so. I have a high level of self control when it comes to the opposite sex Men Im not too sure about, but then I knew a male friend who went without for 5 years. Im wrking on 3 years. Go team.

You are correct sir our cultures are different.I meet mt wife at a neighborhood party more than 35 years ago and we dated in the early 70's and married and had 2 kids.There have been many attractions ,flirtations over the years by me but to be honest I've never had time to pursue anything but friendship with any women.Yes you are correct in citing the stats on cheating,which is a moral thang not cultural,many do it so what does that have to do with me.My woman is my best friend and even during the worst of times I would never do anything to hurt her.We get mad and argue as she is very independent minded and has put up with my dumbest stuff .She has my full respect and love.I also believe in a God of my understanding and follow his guidance as this is the basis of my manhood.A man must lead by example and not indulging in his own selfish fantasies and desires.This not cultural,but moral.

And finally, it is intersting for me to know that what do you married
men do there, when you want it, and she is not ready (being busy,
being in menstural cycle, or ....)? Do you ALWAYS dump your need?
It's called deffered gratification. We are not animals, we do not have to act on every impulse immediately. Would your wife be allowed to have sex with other men when the mood strikes her and you are not around?


And what you will do when you are spending lots of time with
a girl (or married woman) alone at your work? Do you pay attention
only to the work itself all the time? Actually yes! I have friends and co-workers who are men as well as having friends and co-workers who are women. In fact most of my co-workers are women. Once again, I am not an animal who needs to act on every impulse I have. I may think that a woman is very attractive but I don't need to attempt to have sex with her.

Isnt that why the middle east hates America and the western world? because they dont like American (western world) values?

Yes, but who is it that needs to learn tolerance here? Maybe the Middle East doesn't like Western values and that's their perrogative, but that doesn't give them the right to terrorize us.

Yes, but who is it that needs to learn tolerance here? Maybe the Middle East doesn't like Western values and that's their perrogative, but that doesn't give them the right to terrorize us.


I agree. That does NOT give them the right to terrorize us.

All I was saying is that both sides need to start learning and respecting the other side.

I never meant to imply that I approve of them terrorizing other countries.

Um I hate to tell you but its not just them and its not all of them. Ive seen just as bad over here. Innocent people from that culture can't walk down the street with out someone screaming terrorist at them because of something a few people did. They lost family just as well as we did in those attacks. Well now I'm confused about this girlfriend /wife thing. So Ill let you guys handle this one.

I hope this helps!:cool: You asked- And finally, it is intersting for me to know that what do you married
Men do there, when you want it, and she is not ready (being busy,
Being in menstural cycle, or... )? Do you ALWAYS dump your need?
Or you think it is not so important?
I go about my own business until she is ready,I am not an animal,I am not a spoiled A**s brat, I am not a dog!Sex is only a part of our relationship and I am not preoccupied with it to the exclusion of everything else.:cool:

And you ask-And what you will do when you are spending lots of time with
A girl (or married woman) alone at your work? Do you pay attention
Only to the work itself all the time?
Personally I treat her as a human being as I would want to be treated with dignity and respect and as a colleague.We are there to work aren't we?As a mature male I control my impulses,my impulses do not control me.And even though she acts friendly I don't take it as a come on,that's dog thinking!:cool: When you control your own selfishness you just might view the world with a different attitude!Sorry got to go,my woman is ready for her foot massage!:cool:

Alia2, I have no pity for you what so ever, however, your family has my deepest sympathy. You are a married man with 2 kids, and you have the audacity to come here to ask for advice on how to keep committing infidelity with another woman. I don't care what country you are from, you're very selfish, you did not once think about your wife and kids in your first message. Only when everyone questioned your act, you started making excuses as to why your cheating on your wife. You care more about their own comfort and sexual needs, instead of your family. Stop being single minded and think about your wife and kids and the emotional distress it's going to cause them. You can deal with your problem the mature way by facing your wife and talking about your issues. Try communicating with your wife, and hopefully you will both come up with a solution to your problem.

I am currently spending more time with my family (in addition
To working and studying PhD).

Also I told my GF that my greatest pleasure with her has been
In 'filling her loneliness times' , although not all of it,
And I wish I continue filling it, for example in talking with me
About a good husband charactersitics (every man NOT similar to myself
Would be a good person ;) ) and even talking about every
Other (small) thing that could not be shared with her future man
(if such things exist).
She has never tried to pull me away from my wife,
But learned me about how to be more useful to them,
And this is one of the reasons I love her so much.

Special thanks to momincali, crankiebabie, PrettynPetite1.

There are people of the opposite sex not necessaily the ones we are married to who we feel we strongly connect to. They are our soulmate. I guess this girlfriend of yours is your soulmate. Maybe you can continue caring for her & confiding in her yet break the affair. This would be extremely difficult but once you have established the limits of your relationship, this is doable. Talk to her about the future, where your relationship is going, etc. By breaking this sooner, less people will be involved & hurt. So do your family a favor. Get out of this now. I know culture has a lot to do with this. But monogamy does not apply to the woman only. It should go both ways. Do you want your wife to do the same? I have come across lots of women who caught their husbands cheating on them. I tell you, it is very pitiful. Most go through depression & they tend to ask themselves what they lack. There is a terrible loss of self esttem on their part. Its tragic. Are you willing to risk this? Affairs not only affect wives but children as well. Especially girls. They tend to view relationships negatively as they grow older. So your choice here would be HER or your FAMILY. Take your pick.

Alia2, you're a piece of work. Your thanking me for telling it like it is. Hopefully, you will take our advice and do the right thing.

Sir since you thanked all the ladies what about the men who jumped in your a#$%^&s with our opinons?All of a sudden you are some kind of knight in shining armour!you have suddenly seen the light!every thing is going so well!You and your lady are just groovin'Right!I wish I could be like you and solve all my problems before the month is up!:cool: :confused: :confused: :eek:

talaniman,

I did not mind they were men or women, just appreciated their
Approaches (and not necessarily accepting all of their opinions).

I am currently trying to solve my problem, yet I haven't been
Very successful.
I have concluded that if my GF/co-worker marries, I won't have
Enough energy (even with full attention to my family) to forget her,
While working with her.
If I could have a new GF, it would be easier to forget... but I
Think nobody is like her. She is really my soulmate.

I still need help and new ideas, especillay from men/women who understand
The situation and not use the word 'dog' repeatedly !
When working at my previous job, there were about 40 men and
30 women there, and near half of the women were my closest
Friends, we talked together for long times, and if I was a dog
I would have eaten them !
I understand the 'self control' and simliar words, but you will need
A lot of energy to control yourself in every situation. Even God has not
Asked us to control ourselves everywhere, all the time!
What do you think?

Perhaps there is a discussion board on the internet for your culture/religion. They would be more understanding I would hope. Personally I cannot understand your lack of control, your insentivity, etc. but that's just because I view woman as equals and I try to live by the Golden Rule. Perhaps your wife will have sex with a nice man, leave with him, and your problems will be solved.

You are doing your PhD in what?? It certainly has nothing to do with reality.
In a nutshell, you have been looking for a substitute for your wife's sister from the first day of marriage. You might be book-smart, but you know nothing about women. Even your girlfriend used you in a way you will never understand unless you use some heavy anesthetic drugs for your hormones.
Also if you think your wife does not already know, believe me, she knew the night of the wedding how you feel about her, and is smart enough to try and keep the family together and help you keep 'face' somehow. I for one, do not feel sorry for you losing your 'soulmate' because I think your soul is doomed and it would be a shame to take another soul on the journey you will eventually take. You should get on your knees in front of your wife who has tolerated your childish selfishness and beg her for her forgiveness for the sins of your past. We women, no matter what nationality can take mental and physical abuse up to a point, but when we have had enough, there is no comparison to the wrath of any god you could imaging - we are better at it, believe me. I have read the crap that you have posted here, and it differs not an ounce from any egotistical and blatantly disregarding male who puts himself above women, and then seeks others to blame. Look in the mirror and you will find the demon within who you can blame for it all. It's amazing, but as I read these unloving, uncaring words, my thought was that if I were your wife, I would turn into the town's richest and most respected widow within the next 48 hours. Therefore it's very hard for me to imagine you even getting enough sleep to look for another toy to please yourself. Good luck in surviving if you reject the idea of begging for forgiveness. You rated looks very well, but have you thought that looks are not everything.. what your wife has gone through with you would surely lift her up to sainthood in my eyes, with more inner beauty than you could ever imagine.

All I can say is that this kind of person is what I fear.
I know not all men are like this but this is making paranoid.

I just think this creature should tell his wife and family, just to be fair with them and accept what his wife's decision will be.

Yeah you tell them! YOu know what alia2 you suck. YOu are the suckingest person alive. I think you are the devil and you suck and you're evil. Evil.:eek:

You guys made me laugh. To Talaniman and all the men here, I think you did an equally good job on this thread as the ladies. I would like to send special thanks to Talaniman, Captain Forest, NeedKarma, Jesushelper and Fr Chuck for providing their opinions. ;)

Yes you guys are really cool. :D

You guys made me laugh. To Talaniman and all the men here, I think you did an equally good job on this thread as the ladies. I would like to send special thanks to Talaniman, Captain Forest, NeedKarma, Jesushelper and Fr Chuck for providing their opinions. ;)


Your quite welcome :)

Although I think there is another underlying meaning in your words, but I just don't seem to be getting it right now.

I don't know what to do with so much compliements
Like dog, evil,.
Does any 'human with mistakes' convert to animals and evil?
Don't you, my friends who are telling me about
My mistakes (and I appreciate it), make mistakes yourselves?
Is everything in your life absolutely good?

I believe that I might have mistakes in my life,
Since only a mistake can make me so much depressed,
And actually I am waking-up at 4am every night,
Thinking about past, now and future, about myself,
About my wife who is deeply asleep with no stress, etc.
But everybody learns from his/her mistakes. I am still not
Sure about what to do in future, just trying to improve
Things for myself, my family and my job.

Anyway, I think my personal problem is not worth to
Talk about it anymore. But this topic is changed
Its way from a personal problem to the 'dialog between cultures'!

Lets review a few less-known facts about
My country and then about some type of logic
And my PhD, as you asked about this later one.

I am Iranian, the country with more than 2500
Years of heritage, and many scientists like
Avecina (the father of medicine) and Alkharazmi
(the word 'algorithm' is named after him)...

I am studying PhD in Computer Engineering
And Artificial Intelligence.

This area as you know is concerned with
Modeling human's brain, decision making system, and so on.

An intersting sub-area in this field, is fuzzy logic.
The father of fuzzy logic is an Iraian : Prof. (Emeritus)
Lotfi Zadeh from the Berkeley University.(www.cs.berkeley.edu/~zadeh/)

Fuzzy logic, in a few words, tells that every fact in
The world around us is not black/white, is not true/false.
But the world is grey-scale. We can have 'partial' truth.

As you might know, when fuzzy logic was introduced in 1970's,
The US scientific society rejected it, but Japan started
To apply it in industry, and it is now widely used all around
The world.

Fuzzy logic is used in many applications, from smooth-zooming
In digital cameras and auto-control in refrigrators to
Internet search engines like Google to railway control
Systems, etc.

Lets see the world not as absolute facts, but as fuzzy facts.

Most of you are telling me that I have done 'absolutely
Bad'! Also you think that I am insisting on that
I have been 'absloutely good'.
But none is correct. Based on fuzzy logic, I can tell
That I have been, say, 'somewhat wrong'. Or I can
Tell, for example, I will perform 'somewhat good' in near
Future and 'very good' in the next 3 years...

Any ideas?

Any ideas?
Yes, should should not have gotten married or have kids. You are not ready for that. No one cares about the details of your country or culture, they do not affect what you do.

Is everything in your life absolutely good? NO, but I don't blame it on others actions in the past.

I believe that I might have mistakes in my life, You Believe???
since only a mistake can make me so much depressed, and actually I am waking-up at 4am every night, thinking about past, now and future, about myself, I would not be able to sleep well either in your case and am surprised you even feel safe in getting a little sleep...
about my wife who is deeply asleep with no stress, etc. She has learned to live and be consoled with what you put on her plate, and deserves to have no stress whatsoever, which is more than you deserve.
but everybody learns from his/her mistakes. You have not learned, otherwise you would not be making excuses and looking for a substitute. I am still not sure about what to do in future, just trying to improve things for myself, my family and my job. Unless you ask your wife for forgiveness, you'll not be able to improve, you'll be eaten up from within, so have some good life-insurance. Any man with as much stress as you never lives long, no matter what country or culture. Also, make sure you have a good doctor available.

Anyway, I think my personal problem is not worth to talk about it anymore. But this topic is changed its way from a personal problem to the 'dialog between cultures'! Having lived in Japan, Greece, Turkey, USA, Germany and Italy - I have no culture problems at all and I am mainly talking about your personal problems.

Lets review a few less-known facts about my country and then about some type of logic and my PhD, as you asked about this later one.

I am Iranian, the country with more than 2500 years of heritage, and many scientists like Avecina (the father of medicine) and Alkharazmi
(the word 'algorithm' is named after him) ...

I am studying PhD in Computer Engineering and Artificial Intelligence.
AI's don't have feelings, so you'll feel right at home working with this.
This area as you know is concerned with modeling human's brain, decision making system, and so on. I'm certain adultry is not on their agenda, neither is lying and cheating.

Fuzzy logic, in a few words, tells that every fact in the world around us is not black/white, is not true/false. But the world is grey-scale. We can have 'partial' truth. Most partial truth is to protect, not to blatantly hurt another human with total disregard of how they feel!

As you might know, when fuzzy logic was introduced in 1970's,
the US scientific society rejected it, but Japan started to apply it in industry, and it is now widely used all around the world. What has this got to do with your wife and children???

Lets see the world not as absolute facts, but as fuzzy facts. In other words, mold it the way you like it?

Most of you are telling me that I have done 'absolutely bad'! Also you think that I am insisting on that I have been 'absloutely good'.
But none is correct. Based on fuzzy logic, I can tell that I have been, say, 'somewhat wrong'. Or I can tell, for example, I will perform 'somewhat good' in near future and 'very good' in the next 3 years ...
We are talking about selfish emotions here, not achievements - even murderers were once good little children and a joy to their families, until something inside snapped and they then made the wrong choices.
Any ideas?My ideas/comments are in red by the appropriate statements from you. Yes, there are shades of gray, but I don't think your family is color-blind, do you? The vast colors of the world are not there for just your advantage.

Yes, should should not have gotten married or have kids. You are not ready for that. No one cares about the details of your country or culture, they do not affect what you do.Not a truer phrase issued in the longest time! Proud to know there are men like you still around.

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_11.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZN)

I don't know what to do with so much compliements
like dog, evil, ...
Does any 'human with mistakes' convert to animals and evil?
Don't you, my friends who are telling me about
my mistakes (and I appreciate it), make mistakes yourselves?
Is everything in your life absolutely good?

I believe that I might have mistakes in my life,
since only a mistake can make me so much depressed,
and actually I am waking-up at 4am every night,
thinking about past, now and future, about myself,
about my wife who is deeply asleep with no stress, etc.
but everybody learns from his/her mistakes. I am still not
sure about what to do in future, just trying to improve
things for myself, my family and my job.

Anyway, I think my personal problem is not worth to
talk about it anymore. But this topic is changed
its way from a personal problem to the 'dialog between cultures'!

Lets review a few less-known facts about
my country and then about some type of logic
and my PhD, as you asked about this later one.

I am Iranian, the country with more than 2500
years of heritage, and many scientists like
Avecina (the father of medicine) and Alkharazmi
(the word 'algorithm' is named after him) ...

I am studying PhD in Computer Engineering
and Artificial Intelligence.

This area as you know is concerned with
modeling human's brain, decision making system, and so on.

An intersting sub-area in this field, is fuzzy logic.
The father of fuzzy logic is an Iraian : Prof. (Emeritus)
Lotfi Zadeh from the Berkeley University.(www.cs.berkeley.edu/~zadeh/)

Fuzzy logic, in a few words, tells that every fact in
the world around us is not black/white, is not true/false.
But the world is grey-scale. We can have 'partial' truth.

As you might know, when fuzzy logic was introduced in 1970's,
the US scientific society rejected it, but Japan started
to apply it in industry, and it is now widely used all around
the world.

Fuzzy logic is used in many applications, from smooth-zooming
in digital cameras and auto-control in refrigrators to
Internet search engines like Google to railway control
systems, etc.

Lets see the world not as absolute facts, but as fuzzy facts.

Most of you are telling me that I have done 'absolutely
bad'! Also you think that I am insisting on that
I have been 'absloutely good'.
But none is correct. Based on fuzzy logic, I can tell
that I have been, say, 'somewhat wrong'. Or I can
tell, for example, I will perform 'somewhat good' in near
future and 'very good' in the next 3 years ...

Any ideas?
This is not a history class. We do not care about your "fuzzy facts". We still think that a jerk like you gave men a bad name. No matter what your culture is, I think women should be treated with outmost respect & FIDELITY ranks high in the list. I would imagine how disappointed your mother would be for raising someone like you who has been unfaithful to his wife & yet would still find reasons to rationalize his behavior.

Ive made some mistakes in my life like getting married to a loser and stubbing my pinky toe on the coffee table. I sure would never have an affair on my spouse and then expect people to happily tell me how to continue with this affair in disregard to my spouse and children. I would never dream of hurting anyone that way.

It is clear that I have still not became stable (after 3 years of
'unfaithful' love) but I am trying this:
1) My office is now consisted of only me and 3 girls. The old GF and 2 other's.
My 'good looking' secretary who had worked for us in a trial period
Leaved us today and I did not insist her for remaining with us, I need
No secretary now!
I have never touched the other 2 and also my relationship with GF is being
Limited more and more everyday. She is talking with and getting more close
To her man of the future, and I am trying to help her when she asks on what
And how to talk with him. Her shoulder is still the only place that I can cry,
And I know it won't last too long, since her feelings for that man will
Completely fill her heart and there would be no place for me!

2) The best substitute (and more than just substitute) may be my wife.
Although I can never tell her what happened in the past,
But I can prevent repeating it. Is it enough? Or I should tell her
Everything?

It is clear that I have still not became stable (after 3 years of
'unfaithful' love) but I am trying this:
1) My office is now consisted of only me and 3 girls. The old GF and 2 other's.
My 'good looking' secretary who had worked for us in a trial period
leaved us today and I did not insist her for remaining with us, I need
no secratary now!
I have never touched the other 2 and also my relationship with GF is being
more limited everyday. She is talking with and getting more close to her
man of the future, and I am trying to help her when she asks on what
and how to talk with him. Her shoulder is still the only place that I can cry,
and I know it won't last too long, since her feelings for that man will
completely fill her heart and there would be no place for me!

2) The best substitute (and more than just substitute) may be my wife.
Although I can never tell her what happened in the past,
but I can prevent repeating it. Is it enough? Or I should tell her
everything? It sounds so much as if you are asking us for permission to deal with your own life. Well then, OK, - do not, I repeat do not give your G/F advice on how to handle her life, because you both did wrong and it would not be appropriate. What you tell your wife is up to you, but believe me, she already knows. Maybe you can start by paying more attention to her and also compliment her with gifts you know she would like (if you even bothered to pay attention to her tastes these past years) then finish eventually by asking her to forgive you. No matter what culture, a man must earn or regain the respect of the woman at his side - there is no other way around it. Again, this is only my opinion, and it is your choice to make, as you are the one who will have to live with the consequences. If one of your children is a son, what would you suggest he do as a man in your shoes? How would you want him to see his father?

Ah! Everyone will have different opinions on this. My husband slept with this fugly chick who lived in our apartment complex. I found this out cause one night he was holding me in his arms and he just blurts all this out. I remember begging him to tell me he was joking. I wished he had not told me because after that things were never the same. I grew to hate him and I still do. But the funny thing about it all is I knew. I knew he had slept with her before he even told me. You see us women have this sort of thing that happens when we love someone very much. You can feel when some one you love is hurting you or something bad happens to them. I felt my heart breaking inside and then when I got home that night he told me. Maybe the best thing to do is not say anything and just be good to your wife and child and give them lots of attention. She probably already knows about the affair being your wife who loves you and all.

Ah! Everyone will have different opinions on this. My husband slept with this fugly chick who lived in our apartment complex. I found this out cause one night he was holding me in his arms and he just blurts all this out. I remember begging him to tell me he was joking. I wished he had not told me because after that things were never the same. I grew to hate him and I still do. But the funny thing about it all is I knew. I knew he had slept with her before he even told me. You see us women have this sort of thing that happens when we love someone very much. You can feel when some one you love is hurting you or something bad happens to them. I felt my heart breaking inside and then when i got home that night he told me. Maybe the best thing to do is not say anything and just be good to your wife and child and give them lots of attention. She probably already knows about the affair being your wife who loves you and all. You are right, she does already know, so he's in deep stuff no matter what. I'm glad I don't have to live with his guilt.

A history lesson is not necessary as from the comments you've gotten this is a moral ussue, culture has nothing to do with it,nor does your job or brains.The only thing you are being called to task for are your actions concerning your wife and family,which you admit are less than honorable.At least you have admitted your mistake and are willing to change.But know this, saying one thing and not doing it are the same as being the dog that you were.Only your sincere action can bring about the change you seek,anything else is just lip-sevice.:cool:

Alia2- You keep stating that you made a "mistake"... Sir, a mistake is when you put on a black sock and a dark blue sock. What you made was a poor choice, not a mistake. If you had at one point in your life had a weak moment and were unfaithful to your wife, regretted it deeply and promised yourself never to commit such an act again, that would be called an event. You cheated on your wife and your family on a daily basis. That is not an event, that is a pattern, a pattern which clearly demonstrates you have very little character.
God doesn't ask us to be perfect, he asks us to be moral, honest, loyal, ethical and true! Your life is a lie and for you to think that getting another girlfriend to help you forget the first is just another show of your lack of character because all you can think about is yourself and how sad and lonely you will be. In any culture, to purposely hurt and deceive someone else is WRONG!

momincali, as I told before, I'm no longer seeking another girlfriend.
Also, I am not making execuses, just talking about the subject.

When thinking about the past, I tried to figure out the origins
Of that 'pattern' in my life.
I had no relationship before marriage, although some of my friends had,
But I felt that I should keep all my feelings for my future wife...
Even in the first 5 years of marriage, I did not touch a girl other
Than my wife.
During the last 4 years, I had some sources of information and learning
Which (more or less) affected my life style:

1) Some of my friends and even my neighbour who are married and have
Lots of GF's and spend lots of time with them! I never admitted them,
And it is normal for them to leave the wife even at 23:00 for 'work'!
The ONLY night during the last 3 years that I left my wife between
22:00 - 24:00 was when my (male!) friend who lives outside the
Country, had a visit here , and we took him to dinner. I felt that night
I should be @home now, and that was not a happy event for me.

2) A US-based e-newsletter named 'Don Diebel-how to succeed with women'
(www.getgirls.com) which I subscribe to, and it encourages both
Single and married men to seduce single women as much as they can
For love and sex!
It covers many topics like how to go to clubs, etc.
(We have no clubs/dances in our country but I have heard that
Some 'hidden' clubs exist!)
How that is treated there? Is it normal for a married man to go to club,
Make sex (no love!) and return home?
And in general, I would like to know what type of men read this
Type of newsletters?

3) www.askmen.com, who also encourages married man and tells them
How attractive they are for girls since they have experience,
Again I would like to know who are the readers of these sites.

4) Another US-based site, which I visited 2-3 years ago,
www.wifelovers.com that encourages couples to have
Affairs with each other's spouses even in front of them (NO cheating).
I did not like the idea. I introduced this site to my wife
And she also hated what they do!
How do you think about that?

My friend my sympathies for your inexperience.It does not excuse your actions though it does explain much of the infuences of your life.Still to try and justify your actions will blind you to the fact that it was you who where unfaithfull and to solve this problem you must recognize the part you played and take responsibility for your own action.We are all subject to temptation and many influences of the internet and magazines but ultimately we must make up our own minds as to what we do and don't do!To follow others down the wrong path is not the right answer to your problem,see it for what it is ,an excuse for bad behavior.Just because many men cheat and visit certain websites and go to singles clubs does not make it right.If they jumped off a cliff would you follow?When you meet your maker do you think your cheating buddies will stand next to you and tell God it was okay to cheat because they did?I beg you to see that you have given nothing but excuses for something I'm sure you knew was the wrong thing to do!Not to judge you but to help you see that only by asking for God's forgiveness and be willing to take responsibility for your actions can you move forward and put these bad actions behind you!:cool: :eek:

I'm now convinced this is a troll. Let's just stop answering.

What is troll?? Your freaking me out here!

Patience ladies, we don't have anything else to do but try to help this misguided troll-er soul:cool:

What is troll???? your freaking me out here!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

"In Internet terminology, a troll is a person who posts inflammatory messages on the internet, such as on online discussion forums, to disrupt discussion or to upset its participants."

Ah! That explains it. I was so picturing a man with his hair stuck up on his head.

NeedKarma- I think you hit the nail on the head! I'm finished here!. Cya

I think we've said all there needs to be said to this person. No matter how we answer, if we ever will again, he will always find excuses and/or examples and ask us to explain these. So, I also will stop here and let him live with the bed he has prepared for himself.

Wishing you all a Merry Christmas, happy and peaceful hours with your friends and family, and I intend to do the same.
Love, Chery

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I think we've said all there needs to be said to this person. No matter how we answer, if we ever will again, he will always find excuses and/or examples and ask us to explain these. So, I also will stop here and let him live with the bed he has prepared for himself.

Wishing you all a Merry Christmas, happy and peaceful hours with your friends and family, and I intend to do the same.
Love, Chery

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/28/28_4_9.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZN)

I also agree and finish here, since I have already posted everything
(assuming that they are related to the subject, even fuzzy logic! and
I never intended to be a troll!- You could simply skip this thread if
You felt I am wasting your time or disturbing you)

The second reason is that I am now being concerned with a bigger
Problem than myself : I found that my sister's friend of 4 years has
Left her and she is very depressed, and is using drugs to decrease stress.

He had promised marriage from the start, and my sister devoted her full
Time, money, attention (even accompanying him by HER car to the university
, buying expensive gifts, isolating from our traditional family for remaining
As friend with him, and paying almost all the bills... )

We started to talk about it today and I almost forgot my problem, trying
To give her hope for a shining future and trust in God...

Good luck and Merry Christmas

I also agree and finish here, since I have already posted everything
(assuming that they are related to the subject, even fuzzy logic!, and
I never intended to be a troll!- You could simply skip this thread if
you felt I am wasting your time or disturbing you)

The second reason is that I am now being concerned with a bigger
problem than myself : I found that my sister's friend of 4 years has
left her and she is very depressed, and is using drugs to decrease stress.

He had promised marriage from the start, and my sister devoted her full
time, money, attention (even accompanying him by HER car to the university
, buying expensive gifts, isolating from our traditional family for remaining
as friend with him, and paying almost all the bills...)

We started to talk about it today and I almost forgot my problem, trying
to give her hope for a shining future and trust in God ...

Good luck and Merry ChristmasDear, life is not always what we wish it would be, and we make many sacrifices, your sister and I are almost in the same boat - as I too had isolated myself from family and friends due to my b/f - but will change that today - , and I hope you give her all the support you can - she's family and derserves your protection and love. Please pass on my best wishes to her.