PDA

View Full Version : At what point does leaving become trespass?


warmblood
Dec 9, 2007, 10:57 AM
A recent incident has us perplexed. It occurred in Virginia. Here are the facts:

1. Adult RJ is living in his grandfather's basement. RJ does not pay rent, but otherwise takes care of his own expenses.
2. RJ and his grandfather get in a fight one night, which RJ admits he started. I was a witness to the fight. The fight was mostly verbal, but at one point the grandfather orders RJ to get out, and puts his hands on him to shove him out the door. RJ says he has some rights and doesn't have to leave. Whatever.
3) RJ goes down the basement and starts packing his stuff. The grandfather goes over to his son's house and later comes home and goes to bed.
4) In the morning RJ's car is parked at the basement door. There are clear signsthat he is packing. (Suitcases, trash bags, etc. next to the car.) RJ tells me he will be finished and gone within an hour or two. I tell him that what he can't take I'll store for him and get to him when he finds a place.
5) In the morning, the Grandfather sees the car still there and without asking RJ or anyone else when RJ will be gone, and without telling anyone where he is going, goes down to see county magistrate. Magistrate recommends that he file charges of assault and trespass against RJ, which Grandfather does.
6) RJ is arrested before Grandfather can even drive back from courthouse.
7) Grandfather later drops charges. RJ still waiting to hear if the AG office is going to prosecute anyway.

Question(s!)
1) At what point does leaving become trespassing? Should RJ have left immediately and had someone else pack his things for him? Should he have been given a reasonable amount of time to vacate? If so, how long is reasonable?
2) Should the magistrate have recommended the Grandfather file the trespassing charge to begin with?

Thanks for your input.

Fr_Chuck
Dec 9, 2007, 01:59 PM
If he has some rental agreement, verbal to stay if he does this or that, he is a renter, if not he is a guest and has to leave.

IF people are mad and angry it is always better to leave right then, and then get the police to help you get your belongings.

The problem is he shoved his grandfather, this can be related to domestic abuse and can be the serious issue now, the tresspassing is a minor issue at this point

warmblood
Dec 9, 2007, 02:28 PM
Thanks for answering. Just wanted to correct one thing --

RJ didn't shove his grandfather. His grandfather shoved him.

ScottGem
Dec 9, 2007, 02:59 PM
I suspect GF did not give the full story to the magistrate, otherwise I don't think he would have advised what he did.

This all hinges on whether RJ was a guest or a tenant. If RJ contributed anything to the household (paying for electric, phone, heating etc.) then he was a tenant and treapassing does not apply. GF can order him to leave, but cannot force him to leave except through eviction. I am very surprised that the police came and actually arrested him. If he could prove he was a resident, its not trespassing.

I doubt seriously if the AG will pursue this. I think RJ has a counterclaim of malicious prosecuton.

warmblood
Dec 9, 2007, 03:09 PM
What does it mean to prove he is a resident? It is his address of record (on driver's license, voter registration, cell phone bill, insurance, bank accounts, etc.) and it is where he has lived for almost two years.

Also, the police had no choice but to arrest him because the magistrate issued the warrant. (One other small detail -- my fault totally -- it is the CA, not the AG who decides whether to proceed.)

ScottGem
Dec 9, 2007, 03:12 PM
That should be enough. I am really surprised the cops went through with an arrest here. The only explanation I can see is this is a small town where the GF has pull. But having lived there 2 years, RJ has certainly established residency and had to be considered a tenant.

warmblood
Dec 9, 2007, 03:14 PM
Oops, I was making an edit above while you were responding, Scott. The magistrate had issued a warrant so the police had to arrest him. Big can of worms!

Thanks for your input. I'll post the outcome at some point.

ScottGem
Dec 9, 2007, 03:17 PM
Hmmm, its very possible the magistrate is protected by law, even from making bad decisions. And this is a bad decision.