“Sorrill, an ordained United Church minister, has personalized license plates that read "REV JO." But after almost 20 years, the Ministry of Transportation is revoking them over fears they encourage dangerous driving.

“Her displeasure was doubled when a ministry employee later told her on the phone that her revised idea for a plate, REVRNDJO, was also unsuitable, saying the ministry wanted to avoid any sign of bias toward Christianity over other religions.”


Is this a case of separation of Church and State?
Or is it a case of government instituted Political Correctness run amuck?
Or, a case of Religious Persecution?


TheStar.com | GTA | LUV UR PL8? 2BAD4U, cleric told (http://www.thestar.com/article/280599)

I read this article today in the Toronto Star and didn't think anything of it one way or another. Ministry is saying exactly what it means, they think it promotes dangerous driving. Owing to what is happening on Ontario highways in the last few months, I would think anything we ca do, and the Ministry to, is perfectly suitable.

For those of you who don't know what is going on on our roads, there are now strict zero tolerance laws whereby anyone going 20 clicks over the posted speed limits, looses their licence and car for 30 days, and has to pay a $l0,000 fine. Many people have been caught on our 400 series highways in the last month, but driving on the 40l the other day, the warning signs aren't entirely working because I was almost sideswept by an erratic driver changing lanes at l40 clicks (probably faster) tryng to get ahead of everyone else on the road.

I read this article today in the Toronto Star and didnt think anything of it one way or another. Ministry is saying exactly what it means, they think it promotes dangerous driving. Owing to what is happening on Ontario highways in the last few months, I would think anything we ca do, and the Ministry to, is perfectly suitable.

For those of you who dont know what is going on on our roads, there are now strict zero tolerance laws whereby anyone going 20 clicks over the posted speed limits, looses their licence and car for 30 days, and has to pay a $l0,000 fine. Many people have been caught on our 400 series highways in the last month, but driving on the 40l the other day, the warning signs arent entirely working because I was almost sideswept by an erratic driver changing lanes at l40 clicks (probably faster) tryng to get ahead of everyone else on the road.
Yeah, everyone knows that religious people are a menace on the highway.:p

That's the kind of answer I would expect from you, dark. As my post indicated, there is good reason the Ministry has taken that stance.

From the article:


Personalized plates can be rejected for references to drugs, alcohol, religion, sex and racism, ministry spokesperson Bob Nichols said.

Since their doctrine says plates can be rejected for references to religion, then they are within their rights to turn down the "REVRNDJO" plate. It's a little silly, in my opinion, but them's the rules.

I guess "REV JO" can be seen as promoting dangerous driving... and that WOULD go against the message the ministry is trying to send. Again, a little silly, but them's the rules.

So I think it's a little extreme and silly, and I can say I've never thought of vanity plates symbolizing government sanctioning of anything, but maybe those folks up in Toronto feel otherwise! :)

Much ado about nothing.

tickle

How does the ministry restricting what is on a vanity plate have any relevance to enforcing speed laws ?

I happen to think they are a stupid extra fee to pay... an extra tax for the vain;but heck , it isn't my money. How does having the plates promote wreckless driving ?

DC .

Now that I asked that let me say that a vanity plate that says OBL ROCKS !!! or SUBMIT TO ALLAH could cause problems on our highways . Maybe it is not the worse thing in the world to visit the logic of having any vanity plates at all.

OBL ROCKS !!!

Ohio Baseball League?

Old Black Ladies?

Operating Budget Ledger?

Orange Ball League?

:D

Sorry, couldn't help myself!

Here's more, including the one tom intended:
OBL - What does OBL stand for? Acronyms and abbreviations by the Free Online Dictionary. (http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/OBL)

SUBMIT TO ALLAH Too long for a license plate.

Over Bearing Landlords?

On Board Landing?

Obvious Bald Lies?

On Black Lights?

Over Board Life-preserver?

Observe By Light?

Out Beyond Limits?

More later if I can.

(https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/../members/etwolverine.html)ETWolverine (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/../members/etwolverine.html) agrees: How about SBMT2ALA? Or perhaps JHD4ALA? Or KLL-D-JUS? Not all that hard to come up with a version that will fit on a vanity plate.

All those are fine by me.

tomder55, this isn't my post I was clarifying it because I live around Toronto and there are just too many dead people on the highway these days from dangerous drivers in little cars. We do have our rules and the Ministry and our Police Department are trying to enforce them.

I don't know what the Ministry has in mind and I don't care about the license plate, but I can see their point as small as it may be. Who would guess the REV JO referred to to a minister of the cburch? It could mean REV THOSE ENGINES JO!! Probably what they are thinking. I guess every little bit helps to reduce the carnage and make better drivers out of all of us up here.

tomder55, this isnt my post i was clarifying it because i live around Toronto and there are just too many dead people on the highway these days from dangerous drivers in little cars. We do have our rules and the Ministry and our Police Department are trying to enforce them.

I dont know what the Ministry has in mind and I dont care about the license plate, but i can see their point as small as it may be. Who would guess the REV JO referred to to a minister of the cburch? It could mean REV THOSE ENGINES JO !!! Probably what they are thinking. I guess every little bit helps to reduce the carnage and make better drivers out of all of us up here.

So what you are saying is that people in Canada are so irresponsible that they need the government to tell them how to drive, what to put in and on their cars, and what is acceptable behavior. And you are assuming that the government is right in its decisions of how to do so.

That's a scary thought, Tickle. The idea that there are actually people who really believe that government knows what is better for people than people do, and that this justifies government interference in an issue like vanity plates (a free speech issue), brings to mind images of both sheep and lemmings.

Elliot

That's a scary thought, Tickle. The idea that there are actually people who really believe that government knows what is better for people than people do, and that this justifies government interferance in an issue like vanity plates (a free speech issue), brings to mind images of both sheep and lemmings.
ElliotLOL! Oh my god, that was the biggest laugh I've had in a while, coming from a US citizen who gets wiretapped and whose emails and web habits can be freely had by the gov.

LOL! Oh my god, that was the biggest laugh I've had in a while, coming from a US citizen who gets wiretapped and whose emails and web habits can be freely had by the gov.
What’s a laugh is that this causes people to drive faster.


http://www.thestar.com/images/assets/300725_3.JPG

LOL! Oh my god, that was the biggest laugh I've had in a while, coming from a US citizen who gets wiretapped and whose emails and web habits can be freely had by the gov.

I haven't been wiretapped. I'm not a terrorist and I don't have communications with the Middle East all that often. And if I didn't want my e-mail habbits to be monitored (either by the government or by the moderators in this site), I'd stay off the internet. None of my rights have been infringed in any way, shape or form. Even if the government knows what I do and how I do it, I still choose how I act and what I do.

You, on the other hand, are inviting the government to monitor your driving habbits, determine what you may or may not do to the appearance of your car, and limit your freedom of expression.

Which of us is the lemming, Tickle? The one who has rights and can freely excersize them (even if the government knows about it), or the one who voluntarily gives those rights and freedoms up to the government?

Besides, think about what you are saying. The government is evil, it is trying to take our rights from us and spy on us, and the only way to protect ourselves on the road is to voluntarily give up our right of free expression to the government. Is that the argument you are making, because it sure sounds that way. Does it make any sense to you, because you've got me stumped on how to interpret these arguments when taken collectively.

Elliot

I haven't been wiretapped. You'd never know it if you were (or are). No warrant is required by your government.

NK,

True. But even if I am being monitored, so what. It doesn't affect me at all. I have nothing to be guilty of. I haven't done anything that the government would waste its time worying about. So even if I am being wiretapped by some supercomputer (the supposed wiretaps and internet usage run through a supercomputer with a program that searches for certain key-words and then checks the context of those key-words to determine if the activity is suspicious) how does it affect my rights in any way, shape or form? Am I being kept from making my phone calls? Am I beiong kept from going n the internet? Have I been jailed for anything I have said or done over electronic or voice media? Even if the government knows about what I do, who cares if they aren't doing anything to infringe on my rights to do those things. My rights have NOT been limited in any way. Neither have anyone else's.

Elliot

So you don't mind if a policeman stop your car on the street for no reason and begins searching it then?

I guess we operate differently here.

BTW, for the record, I find that whole license plate issue to be stupid. Let the man have his plate, it encourages nothing.

I don't know about you, DC, but I'm often encouraged to engage in "road racing" after reading a license plate. Really, you've got to be kidding me. It's nice to know religion is in the same category as drugs, alcohol, sex and racism in Canada.

Steve

We love it here. :)

So you don't mind if a policeman stop your car on the street for no reason and begins searching it then?

Once he stops my car, he IS inhibiting my rights. However, I would have no problem with him using electronic equipment to scan my car from a distance (for bombs, guns, whatever), as long as he doesn't stop me from going on my merry way unless I am breaking the law.


I guess we operate differently here.

Yeah, I guess so. I operate in the real world, where if nothing is being done to inhibit your rights, who gives a damn what the government does. You must be from somewhere else.


BTW, for the record, I find that whole license plate issue to be stupid. Let the man have his plate, it encourages nothing.

In that we are in agreement.

Elliot

You must be from somewhere else.

I'm from Canada, I though you knew that.

And... Bush wants the low level bureaucrats of the verious Dept of Motor Vehicles (and related state bureaucracies), people who issue DRIVERS LICENSES while half-asleep---Bush wants the State Drivers' Licenses be the official identification card for really serious matters!!

Almost eight years, and no official American Citizen Identification Card issued at police stations for citizens and people in the country legally. GUESS WHO'S NOT SERIOUS ABOUT CONTROLLING THE IMMIGRATION PROBLEM, FOLKS.

This is an example of the fascist govermnent... the power of the federal government married to large corporate interests... for the benefit of both, while average folks are mad as heck over government spending their tax money on services for illegals... and, as the average citizen suffers financially.

Maybe we do need to look at the hazards of letting Christians drive. I saw a car today with a bumper sticker that said ''In case of Rapture, this car will be unmanned'' .

Once he stops my car, he IS inhibiting my rights. However, I would have no problem with him using electronic equipment to scan my car from a distance (for bombs, guns, whatever), as long as he doesn't stop me from going on my merry way unless I am breaking the law.



Yeah, I guess so. I operate in the real world, where if nothing is being done to inhibit your rights, who gives a damn what the govenment does. You must be from somewhere else.



In that we are in agreement.

Elliot

All highways in Ontario are owned by the government and patrolled by government employees, i.e.. Ontario Provincial Police, if they find someone going over the speed limit excessively and endangering other motorists, then you get stopped. So you are saying, the OPP has to approach your car with electronic surveillance equipment before he even talks to you. Is that what you mean? That isn't going to happen. You get a citation and if he feels you are acting supiciously, then he has the right to inspect your car under the Highway Safety Act.

But you know fella, if you are from the States then you get treated respectfully if you are stopped. When I was stopped on I75 for over the speed limit, I wasn't treated that way, and I had to pay on the spot.

ms. tickle

Tom,

Rudy guilliani suggested an identification card in one of his answers during the republican debate last night...