Hello:

Even you loyal Bushies had to be embarrassed a little bit yesterday. When introducing the beligerents attending his peace conference, our dufus in chief absolutely RUINED the names of Ehud Olmert, and Macmood Abbas. And, I don't mean a little...

I think if he cared, he could have practiced. I mean he really could have! These are peoples NAMES... Important people. If it would have been me, I'd have been insulted that he couldn't be bothered to learn my name. But, that's me.

Do you think they were? Wouldn't you be? Do you even care that he did that?

excon

Yes, I care. I don't like it when someone misspells my first name, much less mispronounces it! ;) hehe (for anyone reading it, this is an inside joke betw me and excon).

I on the other hand am used to people mispronouncing my name. It is a 10 letter name of Italian origin and very few people get it right the first time.

Getting back to Bush, I think if he wants to be effective with foreign heads of state, taking the time to learn the correct pronunciation is the least he could do. I believe, although we know it isn't intentional, it would be interpreted by those people that he doesn't think they are important enough to the process.

Quick... pronounce the name Gurbanguly Berdymukhammedov President of Turkmenistan!

Okay. I did that. Now what? Are you going to tell me I pronounced it wrong? LOL.

When someone is in Bush's position he already knows ahead of time he is going to a peace conference and who will be attending. If he is pressed for time, he could always practice the names while he is shaving or sitting on the toilet. By the way, I would say that about anyone who is the President. Although I know that excon likes to find the soft spot and dig in heartily when it comes to Bush, I think it is any Commander-in-Chief's job to ensure they make themselves look as sharp as possible and at the top of his game in the eyes of the rest of the world. This was a very bad way to start the talks.

quick ..... pronounce the name Gurbanguly Berdymukhammedov President of Turkmenistan !!Hello again tom:

So, you're making excuses for the dufus, huh? I could have figured.

The point IS, if I was the Head of State, instead of an exconvict on the internet, I would have taken the TIME necessary and I would HAVE the experts around me, to make SURE that the name was spoken correctly in public. But again, that's just me.

Frankly, I'm appalled. Even when I'm USED to it, I'm appalled!

excon

And yet in spite of President Bush screwing up the names ;the two leaders came to an agreement to continue discussions and "they are ready for hard bargaining toward an independent Palestinian state ". Perhaps the name thing is not a big deal to anyone except those afflicted with BDS.

"they are ready for hard bargaining toward an independent Palestinian state ". Perhaps the name thing is not a big deal to anyone except those afflicted with BDS.Hello again, tom:

If you believe that, I've got a bridge to sell you...

You becha I've got BDS. If it's got to do with alerting the world about the mistakes of the dufus in chief, that's me.

What is it? Bush Disgust Syndrome??

excon

LOL Tom! Of course they are going to agree to "continue discussions"! LOL what does that and "hard bargaining" REALLY mean to them anyway? "Perhaps the name thing" is a big deal to them and they are planning on sticking it to us and each other good and hard when the opportunity arises during the "hard bargaining" process. LOL.

P.S. I don't know what BDS stands for. Sorry.

ex,

Don't misunderestimate his ability to mangle a word - no matter the circumstance. Yeah it would have annoyed me, too - just like the mass marketers that think I'm either Steye or Stevben. Heck, the State of New Mexico issued our company a "Certifcate of Fitness" as our company's fire alarm license. And my goodness, have you ever watched a TV program with the closed captioning on?

Of course Bush should have been able to pronounce their names, but really, if it hasn't caused a stir with those guys why are you so upset?

Steve

P.S. BDS=Bush Derangement Syndrome (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Bush+Derangement+Syndrome&defid=1441489#1441489)

Here is the first column that BDS was ever mentioned .Credit Charles Krauthammer(a former doctor /now political pundit) with coining the term. The Delusional Dean (washingtonpost.com) (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A37125-2003Dec4)


Bush Derangement Syndrome: the acute onset of paranoia in otherwise normal people in reaction to the policies, the presidency -- nay -- the very existence of George W. Bush.


Until now, Bush Derangement Syndrome (BDS) had generally struck people with previously compromised intellectual immune systems. Hence its prevalence in Hollywood. Barbra Streisand, for example, wrote her famous September 2002 memo to Gephardt warning that the president was dragging us toward war to satisfy, among the usual corporate malefactors who "clearly have much to gain if we go to war against Iraq," the logging industry -- timber being a major industry in a country that is two-thirds desert.

It is true that BDS has struck some pretty smart guys -- Bill Moyers ranting about a "right-wing wrecking crew" engaged in "a deliberate, intentional destruction of the United States way of governing" and New York Times columnist Paul Krugman, whose recent book attacks the president so virulently that Krugman's British publisher saw fit to adorn the cover with images of Vice President Cheney in a Hitler-like mustache and Bush stitched up like Frankenstein. Nonetheless, some observers took that to be satire; others wrote off Moyers and Krugman as simple aberrations, the victims of too many years of neurologically hazardous punditry.

That's what has researchers so alarmed about Dean. He had none of the usual risk factors: Dean has never opined for a living and has no detectable sense of humor. Even worse is the fact that he is now exhibiting symptoms of a related illness, Murdoch Derangement Syndrome (MDS), in which otherwise normal people believe that their minds are being controlled by a single, very clever Australian.




The sad news is that there is no cure. But there is hope. There are many fine researchers seeking that cure. Your donation to the BDS Foundation, no matter how small, can help.

why are you so upset?Hello Steve:

Because when he speaks to the world, he represents ME. I DON'T talk like that, and I DIDN’T go to Harvard.

It ISN'T policy, Steve. It's speech. I hated Ronny RayGun's policies - but he made me proud when he spoke.

excon

Of course Bush should have been able to pronounce their names, but really, if it hasn't caused a stir with those guys why are you so upset?

P.S. BDS=Bush Derangement Syndrome (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Bush+Derangement+Syndrome&defid=1441489#1441489)

I had to go change my tightie whities just now because I PMSL. That BDS definition is hilarious!

Hey Steve, how do you know it didn't cause a stir with those guys? We all know that Excon likes to poke the bear and he will do anything he can to rile you guys up. But, we really don't have any idea what those guys are thinking or feeling. They aren't stoopid (sp on purpose) enough to fly off the handle at a peace conference. Now, maybe if it was Osama, that might be a different story. He is rather vocal even when he isn't insulted straight to his face. Let's see how those "hard bargaining" discussions go, shall we? Hmmm? Maybe it has to do with the fact that Israel and the U.S. are such strong allies that they are being extremely careful not to display any signs of emotions or distress. I would also keep everything close to the vest if I knew someone I was dealing with was in bed with my enemy. Maybe they do view his mangling of their names as an outright slap in the face. Who knows what lurks in the hearts & minds of (those) men? We poor slobs on the other side of the world sure don't.

Hello again:

BDS = "Originally coined by columnist Charles Krauthammer as - the acute onset of paranoia in otherwise normal people in reaction to the policies, the presidency -- nay -- the very existence of George W. Bush

Symptoms of Bush Derangement Syndrome include:
1. Believing that Bush caused Hurricane Katrina.
2. Believing that Bush was behind 9-11.
3. Calling Bush stupid despite the fact that he has degrees from Harvard and Yale and is a trained fighter pilot."

For a long time now, you guys have been telling me how smart he is. I certainly know I don't have degrees from those places. So, I've watched very closely, and I've been waiting for the signs of his intelligence to make themselves apparent. Smart people can't really HIDE their intelligence. Wouldn't you think, that if he's really smart, there would have been an inkling of it showing by now?? All I'm looking for is an inkling, here - not the Gettysburg address. An inkling would be good.

You say behind the scenes, he's really running the show. I see NO evidence of that, at all. In fact, I think he's BEING run. I KNOW Cheney is smart. I KNOW Rove is smart.

excon

Hello Steve:

Because when he speaks to the world, he represents ME. I DON'T talk like that, and I DIDN’T go to Harvard.

It ISN'T policy, Steve. It's speech. I hated Ronny RayGun's policies - but he made me proud when he spoke.

Ex, I actually agree with you, but at this point in his administration it's beating a dead horse. At least he hasn't given an "I don’t feel no ways tarrrred" speech, he's just making good on his commitment when he said, "I hope you leave here and walk out and say, 'What did he say?'"

Steve

I had to go change my tightie whities just now because I PMSL. That BDS definition is hilarious!

Hey Steve, how do you know it didn't cause a stir with those guys? We all know that Excon likes to poke the bear and he will do anything he can to rile you guys up. But, we really don't have any idea what those guys are thinking or feeling. They aren't stoopid (sp on purpose) enough to fly off the handle at a peace conference. Now, maybe if it was Osama, that might be a different story. He is rather vocal even when he isn't insulted straight to his face. Let's see how those "hard bargaining" discussions go, shall we? Hmmm? Maybe it has to do with the fact that Israel and the U.S. are such strong allies that they are being extremely careful not to display any signs of emotions or distress. I would keep everything close to the vest if I knew someone I was dealing with was in bed with my enemy. Maybe they do view his mangling of their names as an outright slap in the face. Who knows what lurks in the hearts & minds of (those) men? We poor slobs on the other side of the world sure don't.

Ok, so I don't know, Ruby - but apparently the leaders "smiled as he regained his footing (http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5j3BLw_acaOFyPgmHRIPY7eUWt4eAD8T6C2FG0) and plowed on through the text of the long-sought joint agreement." I know ex likes to "poke the bear" but we know he's really just a big ol' teddy bear :D

Steve, LOL. What else could they do? They are, after all, "diplomats". LOL. Maybe they smiled afterward thinking to themselves "AH, so it is true what excon has been saying about his President!" ;)

excon, I think I have a serious bladder control issue. I had to go change my TWs again after that last post of yours.

And it goes on and on...

Bush is stupid Dan Quayle is stupid .Reagan was stupid. Ford is stupid. Nixon wasn't as smart as Kennedy .Ike wasn't as smart as Stevenson. Lincoln was an ape. Republicans have always been called stupid. I used to even buy that. Me ;I don't think you become a Governor let alone a President if you are stupid. They used to say Reagan was controlled by his staff. Now his personal papers are being published and we find out that he was a very insightful man. The funny thing is no one who has observed Bush from the inside claims he is stupid and not in control . That includes Bob Woodward who has written some pretty critical stuff about Bush ;but had unprecedented access to the White House as he researched his books.

Excon,

Most people can't even pronounce "Channukah" correctly. Do you really expect people to pronounce Middle Eastern names correctly? You now know my last name, since you visited here a few weeks ago. Think you would be able to pronounce it correctly if you had to READ it? Most people screw up my name badly the first time... and that's people who want to sell me something, and whom it makes sense would try to do it correctly.

I am guessing that Olmert doesn't take it personally. Jewish names are always difficult to pronounce/spell. Ditto for Arabic names, but I don't know whether Abbas will take it personally or not. Frankly, the guy has way to many other things on his mind that to worry about how Bush pronounces his name. The very fact that the President is recognizing his government at all, after the way Bush treated Arafat, and after the way Hammas has acted over the past year, is a releif to Abbas. He could proably give a $h!t about how Bush says his name.

The rest of the players at the table? Who gives a cr@p? Russia is there as an anti-Israel cheerleader. Syria is irrelevant to talks between Israel and the PA. Ditto for the EU countries and the Arab federation. Saudi Arabia is important to the USA, but they also have no part in these talks. And I doubt that Bush would get the Saudi's names wrong anyway. So who really gives a damn what anyone else thinks about how Bush pronounces names?

Perhaps you are right, though. Perhaps this is a result of Bush having more important things to deal with than proper pronunciation of the names. Like maybe policy issues, the talks themselves, running a war, etc. Perhaps he has a different set of priorities than you do.

Elliot

and it goes on and on .........
Bush is stupid Dan Quayle is stupid .Reagan was stupid. Ford is stupid. Nixon wasn't as smart as Kennedy .Ike wasn't as smart as Stevenson. Lincoln was an ape. Republicans have always been called stupid.
Holy smokes Tom. No one said anything remotely like that here! :confused:
(But, now methinks you just gave excon some more stuff to gripe about).


The funny thing is no one who has observed Bush from the inside claims he is stupid and not in control . That includes Bob Woodward who has written some pretty critical stuff about Bush ;but had unprecedented access to the White House as he researched his books.

The Office of the President is extremely closed off to outsiders. Who on the inside is going to say that he isn't in control? How do we really know that what excon is stating isn't true? So far, I haven't read anything from a completely independent source that can concretely contradict that Cheney isn't really running things. Please understand that I am not saying I think he is. All I am saying is we just don't know the truth as to what is going on during anyone's stint in the White House. Just like with Reagan, we probably won't know how much Bush was really in control until well after his term is over. Possibly after his death. Who knows.

Regarding Woodward, where did you get that he has "unprecedented access to the White House". His book? That man contradicts himself all the time. He is an egomaniac who is a legend in his own mind.

Here is an excerpt from The Bob Woodward version | openDemocracy (http://www.opendemocracy.net/democracy/woodward_4008.jsp)
"In Bush at War, he was leaked National Security Council documents with official approval and given unprecedented access to top officials, including hours of valuable face time with the president himself. Woodward, in fact, had never had much access to a president before. He confused the interviews with access to truth and perhaps intimacy."


Boy, I was having so much fun here earlier. Tom, don't let excon get you angry. Dance, poke, and jab back at him. ;)

Steve, LOL. What else could they do? They are, after all, "diplomats". LOL. Maybe they smiled afterward thinking to themselves "AH, so it is true what Excon has been saying about his President!" ;)

They could have responded like King Juan Carlos of Spain did to Hugo when he said, Por qué no te callas? (http://www.enterstageright.com/archive/articles/1107/1107shutup.htm) :D


Excon, I think I have a serious bladder control issue. I had to go change my TWs again after that last post of yours.

TMI Ruby, TMI ;)

They could have responded like King Juan Carlos of Spain did to Hugo when he said, Por qué no te callas? (http://www.enterstageright.com/archive/articles/1107/1107shutup.htm) :D


LOL! Too true! Too true! I forgot about that! Wouldn't it be refreshing if they all just spoke out about how they were feeling? :eek: Then we wouldn't have anything to talk and debate about!

LOL! Too true! Too true! I forgot about that! Wouldn't it be refreshing if they all just spoke out about how they were feeling? :eek: Then we wouldn't have anything to talk and debate about!

Bush and Cheney have done that before, Cheney told Leahy to go "f*** himself," and Bush called a NY Times reporter a "major league a**hole." That caused plenty of debate :D

I was specifically referring to the topic at hand..
"smarta$$". Hehe.

excon, What an embarrassment! The worst part was when Bush was fumbling to shake both hands for the photo op and Abbas whispered a suggestion which was caught on mike that they move from behind the podium so they could be seen!

Bush is either on psychotropic drugs or alcohol... he can barely function public.

excon, What an embarrassment!! The worst part was when Bush was fumbling to shake both hands for the photo op and Abbas whispered a suggestion which was caught on mike that they move from behind the podium so they could be seen!!

Bush is either on psychotropic drugs or alcohol.....he can barely function public.

WHAT?? Cmon Choux. Hey, I am a neutral party because I hate all politicians. But c'mon. That is just the kind of speculation I have been trying to discourage here. As to the topic at hand, the Republicans will claim that no one was insulted. The Democrats will claim that they were. How do we know what is going through someone else's mind? All speculation. But to state what you have here about Bush is more than simple speculation. It really is malicious and hitting below the belt. The man was walking and talking. He flubbed some words. He might be a bit uncoordinated but how do you translate that into barely functioning in public? Or state that he is on drugs or alcohol. C'mon, create a good and sound argument as ET has. I am waiting for someone to persuade me through good debate. So far, ET is making the most sense here.

P.S. Excon, do you really believe that?

Ruby,

This is not the first example of Bush's obvious problems. This has been going on for a long time. :)

Have a lovely evening!

Choux honey, too bad you don't want to engage in a logical debate based on facts rather than opinions.

You have a lovely evening too Choux.

*EVERYTHING* in POLITICS is opinion. That's one reason why it is such an incendiary topic.

Anyway, I didn't give you attitude; I don't appreciate getting attidude. Let's just be friends. :)

Have a great evening!

Ummm, :confused: that wasn't attitude. It was a statement and I was wishing you a good evening because you wished me one. :confused: I just read what I wrote -- is it my use of "honey" that upsets you? Excon and others will tell you I use that a lot. It really is meant as a term of affection. I won't use it with you anymore if it offends you.

Regarding opinion, yes, that is true. But stating what you did about Bush's condition should be backed by fact. Without it, it falls under the category of gossip. Personally, I think he is a wanker. But, it doesn't have anything to do with his being a Republican. I think all politicians are wankers. I just like a good logical debate and I was in the mood for one today. Most of these threads never can get too far with that, which is why I usually don't participate.

Here's a big shocker... I'm about to disagree with Chou... again.

Not everything in politics is opinion. Political opinions are about opinion, but certain events within the political field are FACTS. And while I believe that anyone has a right to their opinion, I think that they are wrong when their opinions run counter the actual facts.

For instance, Chou's statements about Bush being on either drugs or alcohol are OPINIONS. That Bush mispronounced Abbas' name is a fact. But one does not necessarily flow from the other and one is not necessarily the cause of another.

Another example: It is a fact that drug use and alchoholism can cause feelings of paranoia. Hypothetically, if I were to say that Chou's anti-Bush paranoia is caused by drug use or alchoholism, that would not be a factual statement, but rather my opinion with no basis in fact. One of these is opinion, the other is fact. And while I may feel that my opinion is correct, there is no proof of it and should not be stated as such.

My point is that there politics is NOT entirely opinion-based and often has facts to back it up. But some would like to ignore facts in favor of opinions. They put forward ideas that the President of the United States is abusing either drugs or alcohol, and state it as if it were fact rather than opinion generated because of a personal dislike for President Bush.

The difference between fact and opinion is the same as the difference between truth and lie. Ignoring facts is a form of lie... lying by ommission. It is morally and intellectually dishonest to state that there is no difference between fact and opinion. And it is lazy thinking as well.

Elliot

Didn't that Whusane guy want to agree to more talks as well while he did as he pleased? Perhaps the Busch guy has trouble with names as a result of his cocaine use... I keep wondering if God intended to send us another burning bush, after all this guy is a flaming idiot! But out of respect for the political system that made him president, I think it is imperative to get names correct!

ET, I have to spread it but I just wanted to state that I love the way you always lay out your case. I am a person who responds positively to, and is compelled by, rational and logical thinking and explanations. You are much more eloquent and capable than I am. Are you a lawyer? You don't have to answer that. I just wanted to state that if you are not, you missed your calling! ;)

Didn't that Whusane guy want to agree to more talks as well while he did as he pleased? Perhaps the Busch guy has trouble with names as a result of his cocaine use...I keep wondering if God intended to send us another burning bush, after all this guy is a flaming idiot! But out of respect for the political system that made him president, I think it is imperative to get names correct!

It seems to me that some are confusing eloquence with intelligence. It's fairly obvious there are a number of anti-Bush Hollywood actors that are quite eloquent, but are otherwise blithering idiots. I can even think of a few liberal politicians that probably fit the bill - John Kerry, Jimmy Carter, Richard Durbin, Harry Reid, The Goracle...

The pure fact that Bush is in a position that puts him one of the most powerful (if not the most powerful) people in the world makes me think that he should be able to conduct himself in public as an educated person.

When you cannot say the name of a visitor in your home properly, then you had better ask them how to say it before you introduce them to others. Obviously, he did not do that.

This is not the first time that he has represented the country in a way that shows a lack of education or commonsense. Is he the only politician that has ever done that. No. But, he is the one representing us now. And should be held accountable.

The pure fact that Bush is in a position that puts him one of the most powerful (if not the most powerful) people in the world makes me think that he should be able to conduct himself in public as an educated person.

When you cannot say the name of a visitor in your home properly, then you had better ask them how to say it before you introduce them to others. Obviously, he did not do that.

This is not the first time that he has represented the country in a way that shows a lack of education or commonsense. Is he the only politician that has ever done that. No. But, he is the one representing us now. And should be held accountable.
Just what do you think should be done to him, in making him accountable?

Just what do you think should be done to him, in making him accountable?

Being held accountable does not mean immediate consequences especially for an adult. In MY OPINION he has represented the country poorly on a number of occastions, therefore IF he was eligible for the presidency again I would not vote for him. You might have a different opinion which is fine with me. That is what makes this country great. We can agree to disagree.

And the well educated and well spoken Bill Clinton was and is admired worldwide for getting BJs in the Oval Office.

and the well educated and well spoken Bill Clinton was and is admired worldwide for getting BJs in the Oval Office.
Wow- see now this is where I have to speak up. Again in MY OPINION regardless of political party the individual needs to be held accountable for their actions. So was Bill wrong, absolutely. Was he admired, probably not.

To me: Accountable=not ignoring this, making excuses for him and minimizing the incident, or making the assumption that the men in question were not insulted. See it for what it is. He screwed up. Again. So have all the Presidents at one time or another. The question should be, does it really make that big a difference at this point in time during his Presidency? Probably not. But, it is fun to debate it.

P.S. I just saw Tom's subsequent post. So what? Yeah, Clinton made mistakes too. Why only defend one and not the other? Because he is a Republican? Republican, Democrat, tis all the same to me. Politicians are all wankers.

I cannot believe that some people have nothing better to whine about. Let's crucify Bush or "hold him accountable" for mispronouncing a name instead of discussing his bringing together Palestinians, Syrians and Saudis to discuss peace in the ME. Are we 'neocons' the only ones that see the absurdity in this? Sheesh, this is ridiculous.

Everyone has known for at least 7 years that Bush mangles words, what makes anyone think he would suddenly sound like Reagan? I can sympathize with the man and it has nothing to do with my being a conservative.

When I want to I can write with eloquence. I can lead a congregation in worship or I can sing in front of a thousand people, but I can't read my own writing aloud without mangling the words. It has nothing to do with my intelligence, knowledge of the language or ability to pronounce the words. Something just tends to misfire between what my brain intends and what ends up coming out of my mouth - but I'm confident you will not find one person that knows me that thinks I'm an idiot because of that.

Get a grip people, there are more important things at stake than whether Bush can pronounce Olmert or nuclear properly. I mean for crying out loud, the ABC news guy on the radio pronounced the names right then talked about 'real -a- tors.' And he gets PAID to say it right.

Steve

My, my you are passionate today Speechless. Wha? Sorry, didn't see the ABC news guy. Why are you getting worked up because new people are deciding to join the thread and feel that is worth talking about? Ignore their input if it upsets you this much. What seems ridiculous to you obviously isn't ridiculous to others. Tuscany has a right to voice her opinion about it too. She just found this thread today. If the shoe were on the other foot, wouldn't you want to have your say too? I think so. And, I would defend your right to speak your piece.

I agree with Steve on this. It is much ado about nothing. Every president has screwed up words at some point or other. How many presidents have mispronounced the word "nuclear" as "nuk-u-lar" ever since the 1950s. Even Reagan messed that one up fairly regularly. Clinton couldn't define the word "is" without the help of a dictionary and a legal team. And if I remember correctly, Clinton also broke his ankle or tore a legament or something climbing a flight of stairs and hobbled around on crutches for a few weeks. Ford tripped over his own two feet. Carter asked his 7-year-old daughter for advice on nuclear proliferation, and admitted it publicly during a debate.

Every president screws up with words or trips over his own feet. Being president doesn't suddely make them infallible. People screw up. Get over it.

Elliot

My, my you are passionate today Speechless. Wha? Sorry, didn't see the ABC news guy. Why are you getting worked up because new people are deciding to join the thread and feel that is worth talking about? Ignore their input if it upsets you this much. What seems ridiculous to you obviously isn't ridiculous to others. Tuscany has a right to voice her opinion about it too. She just found this thread today. If the shoe were on the other foot, wouldn't you want to have your say too? I think so. And, I would defend your right to speak your piece.

Hey, I can be passionate can't I? :D

Ruby dear, I welcome discussion and Tuscany did a fine job expressing her thoughts, well done Tuscany. :)

My last post was a commentary on the cumulative silliness of this. One person says "the Busch guy has trouble with names as a result of his cocaine use" and calls him "a flaming idiot."

Another says "Bush is either on psychotropic drugs or alcohol.....he can barely function public," (At least she didn't call him a fascist for once), and ex responds "exactamundo." And then we need to hold him accountable? For what, "tongue-tiedness?" Seriously? I really have to chuckle at that and wonder just who it is we should be worried about here, LOL.

As I tried to explain, a lack of eloquence in speech is not necessarily an indication of one's intelligence or what kind of person you are, so is that really what matters here, or is peace in the middle east of a somewhat greater concern? Just asking...

Steve

Given every thing is going so well, naturally his detractors can only point out the small stuff…

Every president screws up with words or trips over his own feet. People screw up. Get over it.Hello El:

This wasn't a word. He wasn't mispronouncing nuclear to a school class. He didn't go out the wrong door. He didn't trip.

This was a colossal mistake that could have been easily avoided. This conference has world wide implications. These men were the two most important people in the world to him if he wanted to rescue his presidency, and create a legacy for himself. That was his goal, after all - not peace.

Yet, he couldn't be bothered to learn their names. I'm telling you, with practice, he could have done it. My 4 year old granddaughter could have done it. I know he could. But, it wasn't IMPORTANT enough to him.

I think it says volumes about the man and his presidency. Yes, I'm going to tell everybody.

Minimize it if you will, but in the real world where the big folks play, it ain't MINIMUM at all.

excon

Hello El:

This wasn't a word. He wasn't mispronouncing nuclear to a school class. He didn't go out the wrong door. He didn't trip.

This was a colossal mistake that could have been easily avoided. This conference has world wide implications. These men were the two most important people in the world to him if he wanted to rescue his presidency, and create a legacy for himself. That was his goal, after all - not peace.

Yet, he couldn't be bothered to learn their names. I'm telling you, with practice, he could have done it. My 4 year old granddaughter could have done it. I know he could. But, it wasn't IMPORTANT enough to him.

I think it says volumes about the man and his presidency. Yes, I'm going to tell everybody.

Minimize it if you will, but in the real world where the big folks play, it ain't MINIMUM at all.

excon

Ex, in two days I have yet to find anyone making an issue out of this (and believe me, I've tried) except the ultra liberal Thinkprogress (http://thinkprogress.org/2007/11/27/bush-pronunciation-olmert-abbas/) and the World Socialist Web Site (http://www.wsws.org/articles/2007/nov2007/anna-n29.shtml), which is more concerned with "the fact that this entire production was mounted only in order to conceal the predatory ambitions of the United States in the Middle East." And this place. Sorry, but it seems to be a non-starter everywhere else.

I absolutely agree with you about the really weird opins that you have mentioned Steve. As you saw, I questioned them yesterday. The other one about the cocaine wasn't worth my time. I like the poster who stated it, but don't agree with that particular post of his.

DC, interesting assessment of the situation.

Yeah, I would rather Excon had brought sumptin to the table that was a little juicier. It is over and done with, but to just sweep it under the rug and completely dismiss it might be a mistake. I know you do because you hate hearing it repeated. But, we really don't know if there will be any fallout from this from the Abbas camp. I am not worried about Olmert. But, it isn't just Abbas. Let's face it, the rest of the world watches everything our President does. Do you think that they will dismiss this so easily? I don't. We appear to have become the most hated country in the world. I could easily minimize and dismiss it if he mispronounced an American citizens name. I can dismiss the mispronouncement of nuclear and all the things that Elliot is pointing out about our history. Those are most definitely things in the past. One day, I will be able to dismiss this too. Probably after we see the direction these talks and hard bargaining go in. Ack, maybe. I think I will probably dismiss it after the results of Election Day 2008.

P.S. I didn't see the last two posts when I was writing and posting this. I is going to check around to see if there is any news from other countries about this.

Hello again, Steve:

I can't help it if I'm ahead of the curve. It ISN'T an issue really, if this was just a photo op. If, however, it was meant to forward peace in a part of the world that NEEDS peace, then it was a major blunder.

I'm OK with it being a photo op, though. So, it didn't mean anything in the first place... I didn't think so.

excon

excon,

What was major about it? Nobody beside a few hard-left wingers is making an issue out of it. The press ain't talking about it, the foreign leaders haven't commented on it, even the blogs have largely ignored it. It's a non-issue.

Like I said, much ado about nothing.

Elliot

The truth be known we only know how it effects us personally, and what others tell us. Is the whole world laughing, I don't think so. Who is laughing is the more important thing, and when I look around the news, it just seems irrelevant.

What was major about it? Nobody beside a few hard-left wingers is making an issue out of it. The press ain't talking about it....Like I said, much ado about nothing.Hello El:

I suppose peace in the Middle East isn't too major. I don't follow the press. The press follows me.

Look, El. If you were interviewing for a BIG job, and you screwed up the guys name, you're not going to hear about it. And, you're not going to get the job either.

Of course, if you really didn't WANT the job, and you were just going through the MOTIONS, then I agree it was much ado about nothing.

excon

Hello again, Steve:

I can't help it if I'm ahead of the curve. It ISN'T an issue really, if this was just a photo op. If, however, it was meant to forward peace in a part of the world that NEEDS peace, then it was a major blunder.

I'm ok with it being a photo op, though. So, it didn't mean anything in the first place... I didn't think so.

I thought we'd already decided there wasn't much of a point to this meeting. And also, I agreed with you he should have learned the names. Nevertheless, in the grand scheme his gaffe doesn't seem to have many people concerned.

My, my you are passionate today Speechless. Wha? Sorry, didn't see the ABC news guy. Why are you getting worked up because new people are deciding to join the thread and feel that is worth talking about? Ignore their input if it upsets you this much. What seems ridiculous to you obviously isn't ridiculous to others. Tuscany has a right to voice her opinion about it too. She just found this thread today. If the shoe were on the other foot, wouldn't you want to have your say too? I think so. And, I would defend your right to speak your piece.

Thanks Ruby!

Hey, I can be passionate can't I? :D

Ruby dear, I welcome discussion and Tuscany did a fine job expressing her thoughts, well done Tuscany. :)


Steve

And thank you Steve. I have to say that discussions like this always amaze me. I would be the first to admit that nobody is perfect. But, as a powerful leader Bush needs to be better prepared for situations such as these. Correctly Pronouncing the name of someone who has taken the time to come to you is important and it reflects on us as a country when it can't be done properly.

Just like Clinton's little bj in the oval office reflected on us as a country.

Republican or Democrat we will continue to have discussions like this because nobody is perfect and everyone will screw up at some point. It is inevitable.

Oh, I'll shutup... NOT!

Never thought you would :D

Hello El:

I suppose peace in the Middle East isn't too major. I don't follow the press. The press follows me.

Look, El. If you were interviewing for a BIG job, and you screwed up the guys name, you're not gonna hear about it. And, you're not gonna get the job either.

Of course, if you really didn't WANT the job, and you were just going through the MOTIONS, then I agree it was much ado about nothing.

excon

But what if you were inteviewing for a job, and the interviewer got your name wrong. Would you laugh at the interviewer publicly, feel insulted, and tell the guy to go stuff his job? Or would you just smile and go along with the program.

The PA, the Syrians, the Saudis, the Arab countries, Israel and much of the EU want US money and US aid in some form or other. We're the ones holding the cards... we're the interviewer, not the interviewee.

So if Bush gets names wrong, they're all just going to smile and make nice because they need Bush and the USA more than we need them and they know it. They've seen Bush cut off the PA for not towing the line, and they don't want that to happen again. So they're going to make nice no matter what flubbs Bush makes regarding their names.

Ain't nothing here to fuss over, excon.

Elliot

Of course it is embarrassing. If I was an American I would be deeply embarrassed. But I'm not, and I'm still a little embarrassed! Am I surprised? No, sadly I'm not!

Our new Prime Minister (Kevin Rudd, did his overwhelming election win even make the news over there?? ) at the recent APEC meeting held in Sydney addressed the visiting Chines president and his delegation in fluent Mandarin. Did it impress the public? Sure did! Did it impress the Chinese? You bet you! Did it improve relations between the PM in waiting and China, can't speak for China but they certainly made it clear how impressed they were. The president even invited Mr Rudd and his wife to attend the Olympic Games next year. This at a time when he wasn't even PM.

Do I expect George Bush or any other world leader to be able to speak Chinese? No. Would I expect him to be able to pronounce names correctly? Yes of course. I would like to think that you other fine and respectful people would too!

Defending him is only making him look sillier than he already does to the rest of the world!

Of course it is embarrassing. If i was an American i would be deeply embarrassed. But im not, and im still a little embarrassed! Am i surprised? No, sadly im not!

Our new Prime Minister (Kevin Rudd, did his overwhelming election win even make the news over there???) at the recent APEC meeting held in Sydney addressed the visiting Chines president and his delegation in fluent Mandarin. Did it impress the public? Sure did! Did it impress the Chinese?? You bet ya! Did it improve relations between the PM in waiting and China, can't speak for China but they certainly made it clear how impressed they were. The president even invited Mr Rudd and his wife to attend the Olympic Games next year. This at a time when he wasnt even PM.

Do i expect George Bush or any other world leader to be able to speak Chinese? No. Would i expect him to be able to pronounce names correctly? Yes of course. I would like to think that you other fine and respectful people would too!!

Defending him is only making him look sillier than he already does to the rest of the world!
Yes, I would be personally embarrassed, I have on occasion even forgot the name of a long time acquaintance, and experienced the sensation of embarrassment. However, I have had my name butchered and did not feel that the person doing so should be embarrassed, in fact, I did what I could to relieve them of any embarrassment. I am sure the President felt embarrassed, but I would do what I could to relieve his embarrassment, and not insult him for doing so.

Yes, I would be personally embarrassed, I have on occasion even forgot the name of a long time acquaintance, and experienced the sensation of embarrassment. However, I have had my name butchered and did not feel that the person doing so should be embarrassed, in fact, I did what I could to relieve them of any embarrassment. I am sure the President felt embarrassed, but I would do what I could to relieve his embarrassment, and not insult him for doing so.

Ahhhh DC! Therein lies part of the problem. You are sensitive to other people's needs. Do you believe Abbas to be such a caring, reasonable, and rational man? I don't. ;)

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/82/BUSHABBAS1.jpg/350px-BUSHABBAS1.jpg



He don't appear to insulted:)

He don't appear to insulted:)Hello again, DC:

He don't, do he? Peace at last. Good God Almighty, Peace at last.

excon

Hello again, DC:

He don't, do he? Peace at last. Good God Almighty, Peace at last.

excon
Seek and ye shall find! :D :D :D :D

Hello again, DC:

He don't, do he? Peace at last. Good God Almighty, Peace at last.

excon

LOL! At least until the next skirmish!

Lovely photo OP DC! LOL.

Just while we are on his gaffes and APEC I was reminded last night about a couple of other very embarrassing moments for Mr Bush recently

Bush: OPEC or APEC - The Huffington Post (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/huff-wires/20070907/bush-bad-day-at-theater/)

In his speech to the APEC summit in Sydney recently he thanked us for being such fine hosts of OPEC..? And told the gathering how John Howard (Oz PM) had recently been to Iraq to visit AUSTRIAN troops. Hahaha. I wish. Have you seen Austrian women??

No we weren't too insulted but it doesn't look good for the leader of the worlds most powerful country does it??

Gee they (rep or dem) can't even get their for and against stuff right. It is surprising they can even pronounce their OWN name!!

LOL! At least until the next skirmish!

Lovely photo OP DC! LOL.
Yeah, the inter-Nicene struggle puts on a public face. When is a mistake not a mistake? In language at least, the answer to this question is "When everyone adopts it." :p

This whole issue comes down to the ancient philosophical question.

If a faux pas by President Bush is perceived but nobody reacts to it, will the libs make noise?

Elliot

This whole issue comes down to the ancient philosophical question.

If a faux pas by President Bush is perceived but nobody reacts to it, will the libs make noise?

Elliot


What about if a Democratic President makes a faux pas, will the conservatives make noise?

What about if a Democratic President makes a faux pas, will the conservatives make noise?

I don't know... have they ever done so before?

I seem to remember libs ragging on Reagan, on Bush 41, and now on W for perceived slips of the tongue.

I don't remember anyone making any fuss over JFK's faux pas of "Ich bin ein Berliner" ("I am a jelly-donught") during his visit to Berlin, and that was a major-league boo-boo.

I don't remember any comments at the time when Carter did an interview with Playboy Magazine in which he said "I've looked on a lot of women with lust. I've committed adultery in my heart many times. This is something that God recognizes I will do—and I have done it—and God forgives me for it."

So you tell me the answer to that question, Tuscany.



Oh, by the way, this is not the first time that Bush has mispronounced names of foreign leaders. In June 2001, he called Spain's Pime Minister Jose Maria Aznar "ansar" which is the Spanish word for goose.

Elliot

Bill Clinton... which again I agree was wrong.
Hillary Clinton...
Obama...

Listen to Fox News sometime they are as conservative as CNN is liberal.

And again I am not part of any political party. I vote for the person I believe would do the best job, party aside.

Lol

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4c/Berliner-Pfannkuchen.jpg/250px-Berliner-Pfannkuchen.jpg


By the way Wikipedia calls the grammatical faux pas an urban legend.