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andrea_2007
Nov 27, 2007, 05:58 PM
Hello,

I just had a roommate move in with my husband and I two weeks ago in a two bedroom apartment. She is not on the lease, and we just have an oral agreement that she pays her rent on the 10th of each month.
However, my husband and I have decided that we want her to leave because we discovered that she has severe anger issues. She has literally screamed at the top of her lungs at my husband very early in the morning, and is very easily agitated. We told her as of December 10th, we need to move out. She says that she refuses, and that she will stay as long as she likes.
She has harassed me and my husband since this occurred by saying that she will sue us if we make her leave, and that she will call the immigration authorities ( my husband is a legal immigrant) and have him deported over this. She has also called us many obscene names, and I don't feel secure in my apartment. What can I do? She won't go and we need her OUT. Please, any advice is very appreciated. :eek:

student 101
Nov 27, 2007, 06:09 PM
OK she is not in the least and is only an oral agreement... call the cops and have her remove from your apartment and show that she is not in the least and that she harrast you

Emland
Nov 27, 2007, 06:12 PM
She is not a tenant, she is a trespasser. Ask her to leave, if she doesn't, call the cops like student 101 said.

ScottGem
Nov 27, 2007, 06:15 PM
Sorry but she is not a trespasser, she's your tenant and has to be evicted. Her threats are empty so don't be intimidated by them. Go to your local courthouse and find out the process for eviction. You do have one possibility, if she makes any physical threats, call the police and have her removed, then go to court and get a restraining order against her.

Did you check her references or do a credit check before you let her move in?

andrea_2007
Nov 27, 2007, 06:21 PM
Sorry but she is not a trespasser, she's your tenant and has to be evicted. Her threats are empty so don't be intimidated by them. Go to your local courthouse and find out tI he process for eviction. You do have one possibility, if she makes any physical threats, call the police and have her removed, then goto court and get a restraining order against her.

Did you check her references or do a credit check before you let her move in?
Unfortunately, I did NOT conduct a credit check, which I now regret. As for the one other place she lived at, I didn't think I could use her previous landlords advice since he was convicted by the state for renting to her a basement apartment, which is illegal to do in NJ because it only had one exit ( violates safety codes) and in his other rooms in the house, had exeeded the legal limit of occupants that's allowed. I didn't think it would be valid information as a reference from him... the rest were family and friends, and that's pretty subjective references.

CaptainRich
Nov 27, 2007, 06:27 PM
Are you a renter, as well?
She is not on the lease You may not be authorized to engage with add-ons tennants. If she's not legal on your original lease, Oop's... She's out. Read your original lease thoroughly. You, too, could be evicted if this goes higher.

Emland
Nov 27, 2007, 06:38 PM
Depends on your state, in Virginia, this person would not be considered a tenant. She is a guest if she isn't on the lease and you could force her to leave as soon as she makes herself unwelcome.

ScottGem
Nov 27, 2007, 06:39 PM
Depends on your state, in Virginia, this person would not be considered a tenant. She is a guest if she isn't on the lease and you could force her to leave as soon as she makes herself unwelcome.

Can you cite the statute on that?

Emland
Nov 27, 2007, 06:51 PM
"Tenant" means a person entitled under a rental agreement to occupy a dwelling unit to the exclusion of others and shall include roomer. Tenant shall not include (I) an authorized occupant, (ii) a guest or invitee, or (iii) any person who guarantees or cosigns the payment of the financial obligations of a rental agreement but has no right to occupy a dwelling unit.

LIS > Code of Virginia > 55-248.4 (http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+55-248.4)

ScottGem
Nov 27, 2007, 07:03 PM
That doesn't say anything. If she paid rent, even only the first month's or a security deposit, then she became a tenant.

Emland
Nov 27, 2007, 07:05 PM
The tenants are the people on the lease. She is a guest who has made a separate personal contract to pay. She has made herself unwelcome and can sue them in civil court if she wants, but she has no legal rights to the apartment.

andrea_2007
Nov 27, 2007, 07:11 PM
The tenants are the people on the lease. She is a guest who has made a seperate personal contract to pay. She has made herself unwelcome and can sue them in civil court if she wants, but she has no legal rights to the apartment.

I would like to know what the worst that can happen if she sues us? And also how she is going to prove to the court that we rent the bed room for her and she doesn't have anything written between us?

Emland
Nov 27, 2007, 07:12 PM
I would like to know what the worst that can happen if she sues us?. And also how she is gonna prove to the court that we rent the bed room for her and she doesn't have anything written between us?.

Exactly. She has nothing to show the court. Courts want documentation. Without that, she has no case.

ScottGem
Nov 27, 2007, 07:16 PM
I would like to know what the worst that can happen if she sues us?. And also how she is gonna prove to the court that we rent the bed room for her and she doesn't have anything written between us?.

The question is, did she pay you anything and how did she pay? Before we can intelligently advise further we need to know that.

It would also help to know what state you live in.

andrea_2007
Nov 27, 2007, 07:17 PM
Exactly. She has nothing to show the court. Courts want documentation. Without that, she has no case.

Do you know any information about how I can find these types of laws for the state of New Jersey because I can't seem to find there landlord/tenant laws online?

ScottGem
Nov 27, 2007, 07:18 PM
There are links to state laws at the top of this forum.

Emland
Nov 27, 2007, 07:22 PM
LSNJLAW - Tenants' Rights in New Jersey (http://www.lsnjlaw.org/english/placeilive/irentmyhome/tenantsrights/index.cfm)

andrea_2007
Nov 27, 2007, 07:22 PM
It would also help to know what state you live in.I

She paid her rent in cash, and I live in New Jersey. Unfortunately, the listing above said that the website for the state of NJ is under construction, that's probably why I couldn't find an official site.

ScottGem
Nov 27, 2007, 07:35 PM
We do have a NJ RE atty here so hopefully she will weigh in here. But my opinion is that unless you can show some other relationship with this woman, a court is not going to think a stranger is a guest in your home. The thing is you do not want to give her grounds to sue you. If you try to just force her out, you may. On the other hand, if you scrupulously follow the eviction procedure, you will not be giving her grounds for a suit.

andrea_2007
Nov 27, 2007, 07:44 PM
We do have a NJ RE atty here so hopefully she will weigh in here. But my opinion is that unless you can show some other relationship with this woman, a court is not going to think a stranger is a guest in your home. The thing is you do not want to give her grounds to sue you. If you try to just force her out, you may. On the other hand, if you scrupulously follow the eviction procedure, you will not be giving her grounds for a suit.

I am going to give her a 15 days notice. But I wonder what this notice should contains?

andrea_2007
Nov 27, 2007, 07:45 PM
I am gonna give her a 15 days notice. But i wonder what this notice should contains?.

But she still can use it against me to prove that I was renting the bedroom to her!

ScottGem
Nov 27, 2007, 07:49 PM
Again, you need to follow the exact procedure for eviction. If you don't you may be giving her grounds for a suit. Since there is no written lease she is a periodic tenant. That means you have to give her written notice of at least one rental period that you are terminating her residency. And yes this confirms that she is a resident, BTU I don't think you have any other choice in the matter.

andrea_2007
Nov 27, 2007, 07:58 PM
Again, you need to follow the exact procedure for eviction. If you don't you may be giving her grounds for a suit. Since there is no written lease she is a periodic tenant. That means you have to give her written notice of at least one rental period that you are terminating her residency. And yes this confirms that she is a resident, btu I don't think you have any other choice in the matter.

What did the RE lawyer said to you about my case?

ScottGem
Nov 27, 2007, 09:16 PM
I don't think your moving is the answer. If your lease isn't up you could be held liable for the rent until the end of the lease. If you move and she doesn't, you could be liable for any damages she causes.

LisaB4657
Nov 28, 2007, 06:43 AM
Your roommate is a month-to-month tenant. You have to give her 30 days WRITTEN notice that her tenancy is terminated and she must move out. Let her make all the threats she wants because legally there is nothing she can do about it.

After the 30 days is up, if she hasn't moved out you have to file a lawsuit for eviction.

ScottGem
Nov 28, 2007, 07:04 AM
Your roommate is a month-to-month tenant. You have to give her 30 days WRITTEN notice that her tenancy is terminated and she must move out. Let her make all the threats she wants because legally there is nothing she can do about it.

After the 30 days is up, if she hasn't moved out you have to file a lawsuit for eviction.

Lisa is the NJ based real estate atty I mentioned earlier. So I would take her advice as gospel here. Sorry that there is no quick fix for you, but if you want to avoid giving her grounds to sue you, you have to follow the letter of the law carefully.

You still have the possibility of a restraining order though. Its possible, when you serve her with written notice (I would do it in front of a witness) that she may fly into a tirade (another reason for the witness) that will give you an excuse to call the police.

Emland
Nov 28, 2007, 07:06 AM
I still stand by my statement that the unwanted person is a guest. The OP lacks the legal capacity to grant tenancy. The legal tenants are the people on the lease.

I have sent an email to a friend who was a property manager for over 10 years to get her take on it. I will post that when she responds.

LisaB4657
Nov 28, 2007, 07:08 AM
Emland, the OP is a sublandlord and her roommate is a subtenant. The OP has the legal capacity to grant the tenancy because she has a legal interest in the property by virtue of being a tenant under a written lease. If the written lease does not permit subletting then the roommate is a subtenant under a subtenancy that would probably be ruled invalid if the original landlord filed suit, but it is still a legal subtenancy as between the OP and her roommate.

ScottGem
Nov 28, 2007, 07:17 AM
I still stand by my statement that the unwanted person is a guest. The OP lacks the legal capacity to grant tenancy. The legal tenants are the people on the lease.

I have sent an email to a friend who was a property manager for over 10 years to get her take on it. I will post that when she responds.

First a guest is someone invited to live in a home free of charge on a temporary basis. There is no grounds for considering the roommate a guest. She was a stranger, she paid rental, she is NOT a guest, no way, no how. Second you are incorrect about the OP lacking legal capacity. As Lisa pointed out, the OP may have violated her lease by subletting, but that is a matter between her and her landlord. That does not change that she entered into a rental agreement with someone.

Emland
Nov 28, 2007, 07:31 AM
Here is my friends response:

" Unless they have a signed lease with this said
"nutcase", she doesn't have a leg to stand on.
Furthermore, if the landlord's lease has a stipulation
about subletting, they are in violation of their
lease. They do not have to go to the extreme of
evicting."

I had a rental property for years. We had to evict the tenants, who had acquired a couple of roomies to help them pay their rent. When we went to the magistrate we showed our lease and got our eviction paperwork for the tenants, we were told anyone in the house besides the tenants was a trespasser. I will say Virginia leans to the conservative side and generally is more lenient to the landlord than to the renter.

LisaB4657
Nov 28, 2007, 07:38 AM
Here is my friends response:

" Unless they have a signed lease with this said
"nutcase", she doesn't have a leg to stand on.
Furthermore, if the landlord's lease has a stipulation
about subletting, they are in violation of their
lease. They do not have to go to the extreme of
evicting."

I had a rental property for years. We had to evict the tenants, who had acquired a couple of roomies to help them pay their rent. When we went to the magistrate we showed our lease and got our eviction paperwork for the tenants, we were told anyone in the house besides the tenants was a trespasser. I will say Virginia leans to the conservative side and generally is more lenient to the landlord than to the renter.


Your friend's response may be appropriate for VA but in NJ the law and courts are extremely tenant-oriented. A verbal month-to-month tenancy is recognized and the police will not remove the OP's roommate as a trespasser. In fact, if the OP tries to lock out the roommate the police will force the OP to let her back in and the roommate would have a great case against the OP for an illegal eviction and damages.

ScottGem
Nov 28, 2007, 07:39 AM
Your friend is right, the roommate doesn't have a leg to stand on. She has no legal justification to stay once the landlord tells her to vacate. I think we all agree on that. That doesn't mean, however, that she can just be thrown out.

That's the real issue here, not that she has to leave, but how to get her out. If they just throw her out, then the OP is breaking the law and opening themselves up for a lawsuit. That's why they have to go through the eviction process.

The OP may very well be in violation of their lease and that may be grounds for their landlord to evict them. But that has NOTHING to do with getting the roommate out. Your friend is wrong if he thinks they can legally evict her without going through a formal eviction.

As to the instance you cited, its true that as far as you were concerned their roomies were trespassers. You had a relationship only with the leasees. Once you evicted them, anyeone else still on the premises would be trespassers. However, if THEY had try to get the roomies out they would have had to go through an eviction.

Emland
Nov 28, 2007, 07:43 AM
Without a lease, what do you show the magistrate for the eviction notice? The courts want paper. She doesn't even have a cancelled check for evidence.

CaptainRich
Nov 28, 2007, 07:47 AM
Without a lease, what do you show the magistrate for the eviction notice? The courts want paper. She doesn't even have a cancelled check for evidence.
How long has she been there? Has she changed her address on her driver's license? Or is she having her mail forwarded? If she has either of these done, that may be proof enough that she resides there.

ScottGem
Nov 28, 2007, 08:03 AM
Without a lease, what do you show the magistrate for the eviction notice? The courts want paper. She doesn't even have a cancelled check for evidence.

She has the fact that she resides there. That she has clothes there. If she has received any mail there, that's proof. If she has a receipt for what she paid, that's proof. Lisa told you an oral agreement is enough, at least in NJ (and lots of other places). You keep approaching this from the angle of whether the roomie is entitled to stay. We've already agreed she's not. But if they just throw her out, they will be in trouble.

LisaB4657
Nov 28, 2007, 08:14 AM
Without a lease, what do you show the magistrate for the eviction notice? The courts want paper. She doesn't even have a cancelled check for evidence.

Yesterday you posted a link in this thread for the OP. The link was LSNJLAW - Tenants' Rights in New Jersey (http://www.lsnjlaw.org/english/placeilive/irentmyhome/tenantsrights/index.cfm). I went to check it out and this site is an excellent source for NJ landlord/tenant law. In Chapter 4 of this site, at LSNJLAW - E: Chapter 4: Leases (http://www.lsnjlaw.org/english/placeilive/irentmyhome/tenantsrights/chapterfour/index.cfm#4whatis) is a description of what constitutes a lease. A portion of that description is:

What is a lease?

A LEASE IS A CONTRACT (agreement) between a landlord and a tenant for the rental of an apartment or house. A lease can be an oral (spoken) agreement or it can be in writing."

Please believe me when I tell you that NJ courts recognize verbal agreements for the lease of property for less than one year. The OP's roommate is a legal month-to-month tenant under NJ law and the court will see her as such, regardless of whether any paper exists. And NJ is so tenant-oriented that if the OP tries to get rid of her roommate in any way other than a legal eviction through the courts, the roommate will be able to file a lawsuit for illegal eviction and will be granted damages.

Emland
Nov 28, 2007, 09:16 AM
What is a lease?

A LEASE IS A CONTRACT (agreement) between a landlord and a tenant for the rental of an apartment or house. A lease can be an oral (spoken) agreement or it can be in writing."




Exactly. The OP is not the landlord (I am making an assumption that her lease forbids it), she is a tenant with a legal lease to the rental company and therefore cannot legally contract for tenancy to another person.

I went up the chain at my office and got this from my Team Leader:

"There is always a lot of drama in real estate. The nutcase hasn't been in the house
long enough to "establish residency". Along with the fact that she doesn't
have an agreement with the actual landlord, so she is a guest. Now if the
landlord knows of her presence, the actual tenants need to be served with
notice that the "guest" must leave the premises."

I would really like to hear a judges opinion on this. This has been a really interesting thread.

ScottGem
Nov 28, 2007, 09:56 AM
Exactly. The OP is not the landlord (I am making an assumption that her lease forbids it), she is a tenant with a legal lease to the rental company and therefore cannot legally contract for tenancy to another person.

Em,
I have a lot of respect for you, but you are really being obtuse here. What makes someone a landlord is the offer of a place to use for remuneration. The OP offered a room to this person in return for a rent payment. That and that alone makes the OP the landlord and the other person the tenant. Whether the OP has the legal right to offer the premises for rental has not been established either way, but it's a moot point. If she was not allowed to do so, that would cause a problem between the OP and HER landlord and does not affect her relation to her tenant. She entered into an agreement to allow the person to live on the premises. Money changed hands, therefore a lease was established. There appears to be no question about that. Therefore, the tenant has to be evicted.


I went up the chain at my office and got this from my Team Leader:

"There is always a lot of drama in real estate. The nutcase hasn't been in the house
long enough to "establish residency". Along with the fact that she doesn't
have an agreement with the actual landlord, so she is a guest. Now if the
landlord knows of her presence, the actual tenants need to be served with
notice that the "guest" must leave the premises."

I would really like to hear a judges opinion on this. This has been a really interesting thread.

Your Team Leader is wrong. The change of money made her a resident since it established the landlord/tenanct relationship. One day of residence was sufficient. She has NO relationship to the OP's landlord, none whatsoever. The OP's landlord has the option of terminating their lease because of violating the no sublet clause (IF THERE WAS ONE). This would automatically void the subtenant's lease as well. But the OP's landlord has no legal relation to the subtenant.

But you are really missing the real issues here. The real issue is not the legality of the relation of the OP to the subtenant. The subtenant has no legal standing on that issue. She could report it to the OP's landlord, at which point that landlord can decide how to deal with the OP. But she can't sue on the grounds that the OP didn't have a right to rent her the place. The only way she could sue on those grounds was if the OP was being evicted because of a lease violation forcing the subtenant to move. But that's not the case.

The real issue is what the OP needs to do to get the subtenant to vacate. Since there is no written lease, the subtenant is a periodic tenant on a month to month basis. Therefore, the OP can terminate the lease with 30 days notice for ANY reason. Therefore the subtenant has to get out. She doesn't any grounds to stay or any grounds to fight the eviction.

But, if the OP tries to remove her without going through a proper eviction, the OP is opening herself for an illegal eviction lawsuit. So the ONLY choice the OP has is to make sure she follows the eviction process to the letter.

Emland
Nov 28, 2007, 10:46 AM
We will just have to agree to disagree Scottgem. I'm going to go with what the people with the combined 30 years of practical real estate experience have told me.

Let's look at this practically. Roommate starts another screaming fit. OP finally gets sick of it and calls the cops. The cops arrive. OP wants Roomie out. Roomie insists she lives there. Cops ask for lease - she's not on it. Cop asks for ID - the address doesn't match. To change your ID at the DMV requires that you show a utility bill - not just any mail now.
The cops tell her to leave or face trespassing.

Let's say she is mad enough to sue. She gets before the judge and tells her tale. If she is as crazy as the OP describes, the OP won't have to say a word. She'll dig her own grave. At worst the OP has to give back the money she paid which will be impossible to prove with no receipt and no cancelled check. I can't imagine a judge even listening to it.

When I see my broker at the upcoming Christmas party, I'll have to run this one by him.

LisaB4657
Nov 28, 2007, 11:29 AM
We will just have to agree to disagree Scottgem. I'm going to go with what the people with the combined 30 years of practical real estate experience have told me.

I'm going to have to agree with ScottGem and agree to disagree with you, Emland. I'm going to have to go with my 20 years of practicing residential and commercial real estate law in NJ, including representing a client who owns over 20,000 apartments in NJ. For over 12 years I appeared before landlord/tenant judges on a monthly basis in 12 different counties and I'll rely on that experience.


Let's look at this practically. Roomate starts another screaming fit. OP finally gets sick of it and calls the cops. The cops arrive. OP wants Roomie out. Roomie insists she lives there. Cops ask for lease - she's not on it. Cop asks for ID - the address doesn't match. To change your ID at the DMV requires that you show a utility bill - not just any mail now.
The cops tell her to leave or face trespassing.

Incorrect. All the roommate will have to do is have the cops escort her inside where she can show them her belongings in her room. Unless the roommate has physically assaulted someone or committed some other crime, the cops will turn around and leave.

To the OP: Don't even try to get rid of this roommate except by following the NJ legal procedure for eviction.

ScottGem
Nov 28, 2007, 11:59 AM
Let me put it this way, you can disagree with what Lisa and I are telling you all you want. And I understand that without a judicial ruling I can't absolutely prove what we are saying.

But the thing here is helping the OP. And your advice is not. Advising the OP to just kick out the tenant is going to open them up for a lawsuit. Both Lisa and I are 100% sure of that. Frankly the combined 30 years experience of your people doesn't impress me. I suspect you are not asking them the right questions.

As for your scenario, Lisa is right there as well. Cops will err on the side of caution, they will not remove anyone if there is some shred of proof they live there. And a closet full of clothes is lots of shreds. Take this one step further. The cops are not going to ask for a copy of the lease. They are going to ask the OP; "does this woman live here?" If the OP answers negatively they have lied to the police. Are you sure you want to advise them to do that? I certainly wouldn't give such advice.

Now lets say they kick her out and she does sue. So she goes before a judge and the judge asks the OP; "did you enter into an oral agreement to rent a room to this woman?" Are you now encouraging the OP to commit perjury?

I'm sorry, but this is very bad advice. There are so many ways it can backfire on the OP! Better for the OP to play it safe and follow the law to the letter then risk giving the subtenant fodder for a suit.

Emland
Nov 28, 2007, 12:40 PM
I went up the ladder further and have inquired with my broker's residential property expert for further clarification. Her gut reaction was the same as mine - the unwanted person is a guest. She has never run into a situation like this and I have piquéd her interest. We are both researching it now to satisfy our curiousity and make sure we understand the law.

Emland
Nov 28, 2007, 12:57 PM
They are going to ask the OP; "does this woman live here?" If the OP answers negatively they have lied to the police. Are you sure you want to advise them to do that? I certainly wouldn't give such advice.

No, there is no need to lie. She was a guest but now has made herself unwelcome.



I'm sorry, but this is very bad advice. There are so many ways it can backfire on the OP! Better for the OP to play it safe and follow the law to the letter then risk giving the subtenant fodder for a suit.

I fear your advice to go through formal eviction will get her property manager's attention and make the OP vunerable to eviction herself for violating her lease. PM are at the courthouse every week. They will undoubtly notice a suit with their property address.

ScottGem
Nov 28, 2007, 12:58 PM
I Her gut reaction was the same as mine - the unwanted person is a guest.

I'm really bothered by this. Because this reaction is just so totally wrong. A guest is someone you invite to stay, generally for a short period. A guest would be someone you knew prior to inviting them to stay. This person is so clearly not a guest in any legal and practical sense.

andrea_2007
Nov 28, 2007, 01:08 PM
I'm really bothered by this. Because this reaction is just so totally wrong. A guest is someone you invite to stay, generally for a short period of time. A guest would be someone you knew prior to inviting them to stay. This person is so clearly not a guest in any legal and practical sense.

Maybe I should call the police station and ask them if they can help me in this situation. If not, I will have to go through the long eviction process as Scottgem said.

ScottGem
Nov 28, 2007, 01:22 PM
Maybe i should call the police station and ask them if they can help me in this situation. If not, i will have to go thru the long eviction process as Scottgem said.

The police will not help you, but it won't hurt to call them. But I would not take legal advice from a policeman. The problem is this is a civil issue, not a criminal one. Unless it becomes criminal the police don't get involved. The only reason to call the police is if she gets physically abusive. Then you call them immediately.

Who you really need to consult is a real estate attorney. I totally and completely believe that you need to go through a formal eviction. Anything less will potentially open you up for trouble.

You didn't answer some of the speculation here. You are renting, correct? And does your lease permit sublets or roomers? Did you give her a receipt for what she has paid? Does she get mail at the residence?

andrea_2007
Nov 28, 2007, 01:30 PM
The police will not help you, but it won't hurt to call them. But I would not take legal advice from a policeman. The problem is this is a civil issue, not a criminal one. Unless it becomes criminal the police don't get involved. The only reason to call the police is if she gets physically abusive. Then you call them immediately.

Who you really need to consult is a real estate attorney. I totally and completely beleive that you need to go through a formal eviction. Anything less will potentially open you up for trouble.

You didn't answer some of the speculation here. You are renting, correct? And does your lease permit sublets or roomers? Did you give her a receipt for what she has paid? Does she get mail at the residence?

Yes, I am renting but my lease does not permit sublets. I wrote her a receipt but she forgot to take it. In regard to her mail, she have a mail box and doesn't get any mail at my apartment.

Emland
Nov 28, 2007, 01:55 PM
Maybe i should call the police station and ask them if they can help me in this situation. If not, i will have to go thru the long eviction process as Scottgem said.

The police can't and won't give you legal advice. Perhaps a call to your local fair housing office could lend guidance.

Emland
Nov 28, 2007, 02:51 PM
I just got off the phone with my broker and the news isn't good. He says the problem isn't about whether the unwanted person has established residency (which they haven't, in VA that is). She doesn't have any grounds there. The OP's problem is that the lease was violated. All she has to do is call the real landlord and tell them the OP has been collecting money from her for rent and they will most likely start eviction proceedings against the OP.

He confirmed my understanding that you can't give something you don't own. Just like you can't sell property you don't own, you can't grant a lease for property that isn't yours UNLESS the lease specifically says you can.

His suggestion was that you give the unwanted person a written notice and make it as legal looking as you can. Google "rental termination letter." Be generous and give her 30 days and try to get her out with no distress and you may get lucky and she may not call your leasing office. Pay to have your locks changed and never violate the lease again.

andrea_2007
Nov 28, 2007, 03:03 PM
I just got off the phone with my broker and the news isn't good. He says the problem isn't about whether the unwanted person has established residency (which they haven't, in VA that is). She doesn't have any grounds there. The OP's problem is that the lease was violated. All she has to do is call the real landlord and tell them the OP has been collecting money from her for rent and they will most likely start eviction proceedings against the OP.

He confirmed my understanding that you can't give something you don't own. Just like you can't sell property you don't own, you can't grant a lease for property that isn't yours UNLESS the lease specifically says you can.

His suggestion was that you give the unwanted person a written notice and make it as legal looking as you can. Google "rental termination letter." Be generous and give her 30 days and try to get her out with no distress and you may get lucky and she may not call your leasing office. Pay to have your locks changed and never violate the lease again.

Me and my husband decided to leave this apartment and move to another one in 15 days. I am going to give her 15 days notice and then if she refused, I will call the landlord and tell him the story.

andrea_2007
Nov 28, 2007, 03:21 PM
Me and my husband decided to leave this apartment and move to another one in 15 days. I am gonna give her 15 days notice and then if she refused, i will call the landlord and tell him the story.

But what if she screams again at my husband. Do you think we should call the cops for that? We are quite tenants but she is not, she is a loud person and I am afraid that our neighbors get annoyed from this.

LisaB4657
Nov 28, 2007, 03:46 PM
Me and my husband decided to leave this apartment and move to another one in 15 days. I am gonna give her 15 days notice and then if she refused, i will call the landlord and tell him the story.

That is not enough notice. You have to give her 30 days notice.

And if she doesn't leave after 30 days, and you are already gone, you're still going to have a problem. If the landlord has to deal with her then you are going to owe the landlord rent for the entire time that she remains in the apartment, plus you will owe the landlord legal fees and even possibly damages he may incur as he tries to get her out.

If she trashes the apartment after you leave you will be responsible for that damage as well.

Please understand this... you are her landlord and she is your tenant in this apartment. Whether you legally leased to her is not the issue. If you want her out you have to follow the laws and legally evict her. That means giving her a 30 day written notice and then filing a lawsuit for eviction if she doesn't leave on her own. If you and your husband run away to a different apartment that will not make the problem go away.

Since you have already decided that you're prepared to move to a different place, try talking to your landlord about the situation now. Maybe the landlord will have other options for you to consider.

LisaB4657
Nov 28, 2007, 03:48 PM
But what if she screams again at my husband. Do you think we should call the cops for that?. We are quite tenants but she is not, she is a loud person and i am afraid that our neighbors get annoyed from this.

If she starts screaming again then don't hesitate to call the police.

Emland
Nov 28, 2007, 04:31 PM
Me and my husband decided to leave this apartment and move to another one in 15 days. I am gonna give her 15 days notice and then if she refused, i will call the landlord and tell him the story.

I think you are making a bad situation worse, andrea. She has no obligation to your landlord. They are going to sue YOU for the lease and any damages she makes. When is your lease up?

andrea_2007
Nov 28, 2007, 04:39 PM
I think you are making a bad situation worse, andrea. She has no obligation to your landlord. They are going to sue YOU for the lease and any damages she makes. When is your lease up?

My husband just called me and said that he told the landlord about her and he told him "it's you apartment you do whatever you want as long as you pay me the rent on time".

andrea_2007
Nov 28, 2007, 04:47 PM
My husband just called me and said that he told the landlord about her and he told him "it's you apartment you do whatever you want as long as you pay me the rent on time".

We can't afford staying at this apartment anymore. We have to leave and I am sure she is going to leave too. The landlord wants his rent on time and we can't pay him, even with her taking the other room. We don't want to get evicted and have a bad credit. Having a roommate was a bad idea from the beginning but everything happens for a reason, you never know!

ScottGem
Nov 28, 2007, 05:53 PM
Ok, Several issues.

To Emland, I agree with everything the broker said, however (as has now been shown) the landlord may not care that the lease was broken. I said earlier that the subtenant can rat out the OP, but she has no legal standing with the landlord. If she were to rat out the OP (a moot point now) it would be up to the landlord as to what action to take.

To Andrea,
First, you have to give your landlord sufficient notice. 15 days isn't enough. Second, you HAVE to get the subtenant out first. If you don't, as the others mentioned, she can trash the place and leave YOU holding the bag because YOU are the tenant of record.

I'm sorry, but you opened yourself to this by not checking out the tenant. So you are basically suffering a landlord's worse nightmare. You might want to rent Pacific Heights with Michael Keaton, it could have been worse.

Finally, please do feel free to call the police if she gets physycal abusive or disturbs the peace. That may be (as I've said before) your best bet in getitng her out early if you can get a restraining order against her.