Ok, so here's the deal.

I adopted a dog from the shelter last month. They were not sure if she was spayed but scheduled her to be... her appt was for December 6th. This last week my husband and I have been noticing what we thought might be pregnancy symptoms. I asked around on here and finally got her into the vet today.

Sure enough she is pregnant, and is only about 3 weeks away from delivering!! :eek:

The vet said through X-ray, they could see at least 2 puppies... but there could be more.

I need ANY and ALL help/advice on what I need to do to get ready!!

MM, I am very surprised that the rescue organization didn't spay her prior to allowing you to adopt her. Most will do a health check within a couple of days of bringing them in and don't allow the dogs to be adopted out until they can do a full temperament test on them.

I saw your other post in which you weren't sure if she was pregnant or not. This probably should have been added onto that post instead of a stand alone thread. Labman gave you good advice. You need to get to your public library and find some books on breeding and whelping. Here is a link to AKC breeding steps. Scroll down to the area after mating and read through it.American Kennel Club - Responsible Breeding Steps (http://www.akc.org/breeders/resp_breeding/index.cfm)

I don't have any other information regarding delivery and whelping. If you do an internet search, I am sure you will find a ton of advice. Try to weed through the garbage and find a vet's or responsible breeder's site. I would also suggest you get back with your vet and ask him/her for whatever information they can provide. I am a bit hesitant to suggest you get back with the shelter. I am concerned they may insist you give them the dog back or you give them the puppies. Frankly, after they allowed a pregnant female to slip through their hands, I wouldn't trust them to do the right thing.

As I said in another thread, get some books and read them. Also see Whelping Puppies, Woodhaven Style (http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/whelping.html) and Birthing Puppies - VeterinaryPartner.com - a VIN company! (http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=A&C=23&A=678&S=1)

After the puppies are born, it is important to give the mother room to take the puppies aside and lick them until they eliminate. Allowing her to do so, and keeping the area clean, makes a big difference when it comes time to housebreak th puppies.

Ruby, yes I was too... I thought it was common practice to have any animal brought in spayed or neutered. And she is definitely old enough so that wasn't an issue. I thought maybe they were waiting for her to be adopted before scheduling her to be spayed that way if they had to put her down they wouldn't be "out" any money.

But I took her anyway, not even thinking she could be pregnant. And she didn't look it either. It was just this past week she packed on the pounds and got me to wondering. I was just thinking maybe the shelter could offer shots for the puppies or spaying and neutering of them. But maybe your right, and I should just leave them out of the equation.

I have been doing some intense research on the computer. And thank you for the site :)

Labman, thank you too for the links.

Ava is so far along, I need to get these things together as soon as possible. I read that I should be starting Ava on a high quality puppy chow these last few weeks, does that sound right?
Also, is it better that I keep the area on the first floor of my house or would it be okay to have it upstairs in my spare bedroom?

Ugh, my head is hurting!

I know this is a shock but please don't panic. This is a situation that just is what it is and you need to put on your common sense hat. You know your vet is just a phone call away and I would use him to the max if I was in your shoes. I would suggest that you put her in a place that would allow you total control over the situation and keep unwanted "guests" (small children & your other dog) from easily entering her space. She may be sweet now, but when the pups are born, she may not react well to too much activity around her pups.

I am not an expert in proper breeding and whelping, so I won't be much help to you. But, follow the information on the links we have provided. If it says to start feeding her puppy chow, then do so. Sit down and write out "a game plan" from now until after the puppies are weaned. Keep a running list of "to dos" that you will need to do on a daily basis, and keep another list handy for emergency help & instructions if Ava runs into a problem while giving birth. Start collecting a list of questions over the next couple of weeks and call or meet with your vet and get the answers. If it helps, try to put your head into a frame of mind in which you just have a job to do, and do it. Panicking is not an option here. Calm, rational, and logical thinking is what is needed. I know you can get through this. :)

:D Thanks, I just needed some "talking down" I mean to go from Saturday/Sunday night, joking with my husband that Ava could be pregnant, to actually hearing that she really is pregnant, then on top of that she is having these puppies in a matter of weeks!. whew, it was just all very overwhelming!

Ok, going to go snuggle with Mama Ava ;) and take a break haha

Yes, a puppy chow, common brands such as Pro Plan or Iams will be fine. Since she is new to your household and may not be closely bonded yet, upstairs away from everybody may be better. You may bring the down stairs before long. From day one, they need to interact with people. They won't show much interest, but do it.

Ok, so here's the deal.

I adopted a dog from the shelter last month. They were not sure if she was spayed but scheduled her to be...her appt was for December 6th. This last week my husband and I have been noticing what we thought might be pregnancy symtoms. I asked around on here and finally got her into the vet today.

Sure enough she is pregnant, and is only about 3 weeks away from delivering!!!!!!:eek:

The vet said through Xray, they could see at least 2 puppies...but there could be more.

I need ANY and ALL help/advice on what I need to do to get ready!!!!
OK, I'm really really pissed off because I just typed a REALLY long response & the site closed on me =( So here I go again...

I am not an expert. Everything I'm typing is based on my own experience...

I had my first experience w/ puppies in June 2007... I was told that she would have puppies about 60-65 days after they bred.. The vet said that once her temperature drops below 99 degrees, that means that the puppies will be coming really really soon, 12-24 hours! We took her temperature a lot & it fluctuated a lot the week before (it's normal).

So, June 7th. Her temp is low & then her water breaks sometime in the late evening. We know the puppies are coming so we put Sasha in our bathroom (inside our room), keep the door open (to hear her), but block the door w/ her cage so she can't get out. We decided that the puppies would stay in our step-down shower (doesn't have a door). We got a bunch of old sheets, towels & blankets ready! It is really really really messy!! We lined the bathtub w/ an old blanket & went to bed.
June 8th 1:30am, my boyfriend & I are sleeping & I am awaken by a really faint crying sound. First off, I was told that the mother will make all sorts of noises before/during birth! Haha! Didn't happen! The sound I heard was the first puppy!! I raced into the bathroom & see a puppy still in the sac hanging by the umbilical cord. Sasha was scared & I think she thought she did something wrong. Being the first litter I've ever experienced, I had no idea what to do, so I screamed for my boyfriend to wake up! He came & we broke the sac w/ our hands & cut the umbilical cord w/ scissors. I know that it's a mother's instinct to know what to do, but since we were in there, Sasha wasn't doing it... So that was puppy #1. We let Sasha eat the sac (VERY important because it provides nutrients), clean the puppy & we put the puppy on her nipple to feed. I saw that Sasha had secreted a greenish colored discharge in the bathroom sometime before the first puppy was born (it wasn't there before we went to bed). I know that's a tell-tale sign that the pups are coming within an hour or so...
Sasha stayed in the shower & pushed me up against the wall! She didn't want me to leave! I stayed in the same position for hours! About every 45 minutes or so after that, another puppy would come out. You know that one is coming really really soon because she'll start panting rapidly! It's VERY VERY important that the sac gets broken so the puppy doesn't suffocate!!! If the mom doesn't break it, you MUST!! Sasha didn't break the first 3 or so (again, probably because I was helping her). Once I broke the sac, I let her eat it & eat the umbilical cord & clean the puppy. I would recommend having a piece of paper & pen handy to keep records of times born, puppies sex, color, etc. We didn't, but we had plenty of pics, so we knew which puppy came out in which order. I stayed in w/ her for hours! After a few puppies, she did everything on her own! When I went to bed, there were 8 puppies! Woke up & there were 11 (5 girls, 6 boys)! And they ALL survived!! In the morning, I checked the puppies again to make sure none of them had any deformities or anything wrong with them. They were all in great shape! I took the blanket out of the shower & threw it away (it was filled w/ blood). When you are changing the puppies "whelping box", make sure not to put them on a cold surface because they cannot control their own body heat yet! What I did was put a towel outside the shower & put all of the puppies on that while I cleaned out the shower. I used cleaning supplies & made 100% sure to wash it thoroughly so the pups wouldn't die from the cleaning stuff. Then I dried the shower & lined it w/ fresh linens (either blankets, towels or sheets).


Some websites say to line the whelping box w/ newspaper, but Sasha would not lay on it! She's a prissy princess & wanted soft blankets, towels & sheets. I don't know what kind of dog you have. I think the whelping box would be good for small breeds, but definitely wasn't a good idea for her litter! She's a 65lb pitbull (before the puppies) & had 11 puppies!! The shower was perfect! It gave them enough room to move around, but wasn't too big. Just be careful if you do sheets & stuff because a puppy can get under & suffocate. Make sure to ALWAYS count the puppies!!! I almost stepped on a puppy because it was under the sheet sleeping, but I counted & saw one was missing & looked before I stepped.

Several times throughout the day, you are going to need to clean out the "box". I picked up the poopie w/ a tissue & flushed it down the toilet. For the first few weeks, their poopies were very very little! Also, I tried to clean up the pee as often as I could by using a wet rag (so I didn't have to change the linens every single time after they peed). If any of the puppies had poopie on them, I washed them w/ just warm water in the sink. But make sure to dry them or they will die because they can't control their body temperature (you will see that the puppies will huddle together to keep warm). If they are shivering, turn up your ac b/ it's too cold for them!

FYI, ALL puppies are born DEAF & BLIND!!! It's up to you to make sure all of the puppies eat. We had 11 pups, but only 10 nipples! So I would take the puppies one at a time & put them on the bottom nipples (have the mom lay on her side so the puppies can get to all of the nipples). Then I would put another 5 on top of the lower 5 (on the top nipples). You need to put them on the nipples. A lot of times they will just be sucking on her skin & not getting any milk. Just hold the puppy & play w/ the mom's nipple on the puppies lips. The puppy will suck. If not, try to open its mouth & place the nipple inside. I know the pups are born w/ the sucking instinct, it's just finding the nipple! One thing that I found really annoying (esp because there were 11 of them) is that after I put 10 of them on a nipple, a lot of them would try to move to a different one or just be sucking on her skin! So I would keep having to move them back to a nipple! And then some of them would try to suck on the same nipple!! If you do have 11 puppies like I did, just take turns & make sure you keep track of which ones have eaten & which still need to eat. You will know if they are full when you pick them up because it will look like they swallowed a baseball!

I don't know about the specific weeks to start weening them off the mother. I also had to make my own formula (in addition to the mother's milk) because Sasha wasn't producing enough milk for all 11! If you decide to give them formula, I would definitely recommend making it because it's A LOT cheaper & it's really easy to do! I just mixed everything up, heated it up & put it in a bottle... If you want the formula, let me know!
When we weened them off, it was a little different for us. We put the formula in a pyrex bowl & let a bunch of them eat/drink out of it (instead of individually bottle feeding them), but this was after their eyes opened & they were walking around. I added dry puppy food to the formula (I let it soak in the fridgerator for a day so it softened up & the puppies wouldn't choke)... I'm getting way ahead of myself here! Lol!!


Some things I had handy when she was giving birth:
camera, sheets, towels (to clean the mess), scissors (to cut the umbicial cord if she doesn't), the tan colored gritty stuff that comes w/ the dogs' nail cutters that stops bleeding (incase the umbicial cord won't stop bleeding because the puppy will die if you don't get it to stop).. Some websites say to put iodine on the umbilical cords, I didn't.

* * Just be forewarned that this is very messy & smelly! It was the most disgusting raunchiest smell I've ever smelt in my life!! 1000x worse than a smelly gym bag! So I kept some plug in air freshners around!

Also, if you have another dog, KEEP IT AWAY! Sasha was very very protective of the puppies. She tried to bite the male if he went near them!

Found these sites to be informative:
Whelping Puppies, Woodhaven Style (http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/whelping.html)
Whelping Puppies, Breeding Dogs (http://www.dogbreedinfo.com/whelping.htm)

Well, I hope that all of this typing is helpful! If you have any other questions, feel free to email me at [email protected]
GOOD LUCK!!!

Ok, so here's the deal.

I adopted a dog from the shelter last month. They were not sure if she was spayed but scheduled her to be...her appt was for December 6th. This last week my husband and I have been noticing what we thought might be pregnancy symtoms. I asked around on here and finally got her into the vet today.

Sure enough she is pregnant, and is only about 3 weeks away from delivering!!!!!!:eek:

The vet said through Xray, they could see at least 2 puppies...but there could be more.

I need ANY and ALL help/advice on what I need to do to get ready!!!!
Oh yeah! The vet recommended to give Sasha a tums daily for the calcium! She loved them & ate them no problem!

flcutiepye...

Thank you so much!! You have been sooooo helpful :):)

Ava is a 50lb pit (well much bigger now!) haha

I felt the pups move for the first time a few night ago :) so I think that means she is close!

I have built her a whelping box and am going today to get blankets/sheets/towels and such.

It's nerve racking because I have NO CLUE when she got pregnant, thus when she is going to have the pups. I have read a lot, so hopefully I will see the signs!

And hopefully her litter is small, unlike yours!! WOW 11 pups... I couldn't imagine!

Thanks again, your advice was very helpful :)

You're VERY welcome! The vet said she would have 5-7 pups, especially because the male was under a year old! But Sasha's hormones are very very good!
About the whelping box, I would make sure it's BIG! The puppies will get big quick (attached pics below)!

Oh yeah! VERY IMPORTANT! DO NOT ALLOW new people that she doesn't know in there! She will be VERY protective of the puppies! She didn't like my little cousin Josh being in there because she's only seen him like 2x before that. Also, she did not like big men being anywhere near them (except for my boyfriend, of course, & our roomate). She will let you know if she doesn't want someone near her puppies! DO NOT let anyone "sneak up" on her & the puppies!
We had a bad incident happen w/ the neighbor! Sasha & the puppies were out back w/ me & she was nursing. Well, my boyfriend was in the front of the house & told the neighbor that he could go see the puppies. The kid came running up from the corner of the house where she couldn't see him (especially because her back was turned) & she went after him! She thought he was trying to hurt her puppies! I told my boyfriend to NEVER ever let anyone run up on her when she has her puppies, esp when her back is turned to them! Thank God the kid was OK & I explained to him that she was trying to protect her babies because they can't protect themselves. I compared it to his mom protecting him from a bad guy. It's also good that the neighbors think she's a boxer! Just wanted to tell you that story so nothing like that happens to you!


Sasha is very very very much a cuddle bug & loves to be affectionate!

A bunch of pics from that night & the next day:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/flcutiepye/CIMG0845.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/flcutiepye/CIMG0903.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/flcutiepye/CIMG0941.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/flcutiepye/CIMG0946.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/flcutiepye/CIMG0948.jpg

You can see the garbage can in this pic FILLED w/ bloody mess! I didn't know that she was supossed to eat all of the sacs & threw the first 2 away!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/flcutiepye/CIMG0960.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/flcutiepye/CIMG0973.jpg

It's SOOO cute when their mouth is open & their tongue is hanging out!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/flcutiepye/CIMG1034.jpg

If you want someone to be able to go near the puppies & aren't sure how your female will react, you can take your dog outside for a walk & let them go in there while you have her outside. But make sure they are out of there before she gets back or the mom will not like it!

Some more pics, just so you can see how quick they grow! These pics are all when they are 1-3wks old.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/flcutiepye/CIMG1093.jpg

Daddy LOVES the puppies:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/flcutiepye/CIMG1123.jpg

This was my favorite! He was the first to walk!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/flcutiepye/CIMG1172.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/flcutiepye/CIMG1173.jpg

Cutest "milk" moustache ever! Daddy was VERY helpful! He would lick the puppies clean after they ate the formula!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/flcutiepye/CIMG1190.jpg'

Mommy did not like daddy near the puppies & he knew that! He was very cautious around her!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v423/flcutiepye/CIMG1185.jpg

Another thing, we really didn't remember when they conceived. We forgot to write it down... We just monitored her temp for like a week & 1/2. And we just looked for the signs. The tell-tale sign will be the water breaking & the other stuff will be on the floor (not sure what it was)..

In a well structured pack, the mother will allow other dogs around the puppies and even help grooming them.

Oh my gosh!! Those pictures are SOOOO cute, you have some beautiful dogs :):):)

I have been reading that when you start feeling and seeing the puppies move in the mom's stomach birth is about 7-10 days away.

Well the pups have been kicking like crazy... it's getting closer!!

I am just worried about keeping them warm... what worked well for you?

They huddled together to keep each other warm! I also closed the air vents in the bathroom some so too much cold air couldn't get in there! They also like to snuggle up to their mom to stay warm. The blanket really doesn't help their body temperature, except if it's over a tile floor (like our bathroom floor is).

Sasha did not like Tyson in the bathroom where the "whelping box" was. She was perfectly OK w/ him cleaning the puppies up after they ate when they were in the living room! Labman said about a "well structured pack", but that is the first & only time she ever acted like that to him or vice versa. Actually, another dog tried attacking Sasha & Tyson stood up for her! And they are together all the time, cuddling on the couch or playing! I was just letting you know about my experience in case the same thing happens to you!
GOOD LUCK! LET ME KNOW if you have any other questions!

Oh yeah definitely... I have Lennox, who is still a puppy himself (about 8, almost 9 month old) and I know he is going to go ape when Ava has her puppies.

Her whelping box is in the same room her and Lennox sleep in but I am trying to phase Lennox out of sleeping there with her to prepare for the puppies.

I know I am going to be in for a challenge because Lennox is going to want to "play" with the puppies :( so I babygated the room so he won't be able to get near them.

I will keep you updated :)

I wouldn't worry too much about the other dog wanting to play w/ the puppies. My 85lb Tyson was GREAT with all the itty bitty puppies! He would rollover on his back & let the puppies jump & bite all over him! IT WAS SOOOO CUTE!! Sasha didn't like Tyson to be in the bathroom where the "whelping box" was, but she was perfectly ok w/ him playing w/ the puppies anywhere else!! We would let all 13 dogs outside to play! And Tyson was also a good helper because he would clean the puppies after they ate formula!

Sasha wasn't producing enough milk for all the pups & only has 10 nipples, so we had to get formula! I wasn't going to spend a ridiculous amount of money to buy the formula, so I found a site to make it for cheap & it's really simple to do!
Also, when they get big enough (& have teeth), we would make a pitcher of the formula & add dry puppy food to it & let it soak in the fridge for a day so the hard food would soften up...

All 11 puppies lived & are VERY healthy!! I bought everything from Walmart because they are A LOT cheaper than any other place (including publix)...
* * * * Here's the formula: (11 Calories per CC)

- - 10 oz. of canned evaporated milk or goat's milk (not pasteurized cow's milk - this will cause scowers - dogs cannot drink normal cow's milk) Goats milk is by far the best to use. Wall Mart sells it. (I bought a red colored can of evaporated milk for around $.50 a can)

- - 1 raw egg yolk (I did add some of the white part in as well, just for the nutrition content--- the yellow is used for the fat value)

- - 1 cup of whole yogurt (avoid skim or fat free if at all possible)-- NO FLAVORS! PLAIN YOGURT regular!

- - 1/2 Tsp Karo Syrup or Corn Syrup (NOT HONEY!! )

So what I did was got a pitcher & filled it up w/ the whole container of yogurt (4 "servings" in a tub), mixed w/ 4 cans of evaporated milk, 4 raw egg yolks & 2 tsp karo syrup... You just mix all of the ingredients well & then put everything in a pitcher. The formula will not spoil for a week in the fridge. We would pour some formula into baby bottles & warm it up in the microwave for the first few weeks! Then, when they were big enough, we put the formula into a pyrex glass bowl, heated it up in the microwave, then placed it on top of towels on the tile floor! At first, a lot of the puppies would walk into the formula bowl, but you just have to watch them!
It's A LOT CHEAPER than buying the petstore's formula & it's good for them!

Raw egg carries the danger of food poisoning. Raw eggs being good for dogs is a myth of the 50's

Tyson is the dad though right? I am just worried Ava will see Lennox as someone she needs to protect the puppies from... and he is seriously in puppy-stage... like a kid on crack! LOL Just worried he may accidentally hurt the puppies.

That recipe is a great help :) Hopefully Ava will produce enough milk and not have more than 4 pups (the vet saw 2 and said there could be more behind them).

This may depend on the mother. I am not sure if 6 month old Isaac was allowed around the puppies when my Aster was born or not. Six months later, for the second litter, he was allowed in the whelping box to help groom the newborns.

This may depend on the mother. I am not sure if 6 month old Isaac was allowed around the puppies when my Aster was born or not. Six months later, for the second litter, he was allowed in the whelping box to help groom the newborns.

Yeah that is the only thing I am really concerned about. Lennox is really really active and in hardcore puppy mode. He will be overly interested in these little puppies. And I don't know, since he isn't the father of the pups, if Ava will see him as a threat.

Ava has already started to snap at him when he invades her space too much. So I don't think it's going to go well if he tries to check things out when she starts to have the puppies, or right after they are born.

I would def not allow him in there alone! The first time Tyson went into the bathroom, Sasha snapped at him. We reprimanded her because we are not going to have her be mean to him, especially because he poses NO threat to the puppies! Anytime we let Tyson in the bathroom, we were there! Sasha would give Tyson the "evil eye"! I was so surprised because they are the best of friends! They are ALWAYS laying together & always loving on each other!

Well I put the last finishing touches on Ava's whelping box, the railing so she won't accidentally squish a pup in a corner.
I decided to let Lennox sleep in the same room with her last night because I figured if she went into labor last night he would start barking and would be able to wake me up... as Ava is a VERY quite dog and rarely barks, if ever.

Last night the pups weren't just kicking, they were moving all over!! Looked like they were doing flips!

Can't be much longer... I would be in AWE if she didn't have them by the weekend!
Don't know how much bigger she can get!!

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c105/macksmom/preggoava1.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c105/macksmom/preggoava.jpg

Hi Macksmom. Yes, it does appear that she is due any day now. I mentioned it in my post earlier, and I noticed your recent discussion about it -- do not allow Lennox to go into Ava's area after the pups are born. Even if he is supervised. She hasn't been living with you long enough for her to accept his presence around her pups. Because you will have your hands full, it is best if you can focus your undivided attention on her and the pups while you are in her space. You are going to have to be very much on your toes. She may be sweet and loving, but as I said, she hasn't been with you long enough for you to be sure that she won't view everyone, even you, as a threat. So, make sure you are always in control of everything that is going on around her. When she is napping with her pups or when you take a break from the situation, you can give Lennox the attention he will be looking for. He is still a puppy and will need the one on one from your family.

Hey Ruby :)
Yeah, I don't plan to let Lennox around her and the pups. She is already getting irritated with him now, let alone what she may do if he tries to invade her space. And like I've told you before... he's crazy haha, in a good way... but will probably be too rough with puppies... in a playful way, with no intention to harm. But better safe than sorry.

I was thinking about letting him stay with Ava until she goes into labor. He is very alert and would start barking if she was acting funny (moving around, whimperin, etc). I was going to start having him sleep with me to get him away from her, but I am so nervous that she will go into labor in the middle of the night and I won't hear her.

But once she goes into labor I will separate Lennox from her.

And I will definitely do as you said... and try to make sure to give him lots of loving when I'm not busy with Ava and the puppies :)

It's she HUGE... compared to the pics I posted of her when I first rescued her?!

Those pics above were with my phone, I am loading some more pics from my camera that are better of the little errr big mama :)

And you all will get to see tons of pics of the puppies. :D

I have calmed down a lot from when I first posted, and freaking out! Haha. I have realized there is not too much I can do to prepare, and I just have to wait until the puppies are here and see how she handles them before I step in. I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that the litter is small and that Ava doesn't have any problems.

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c105/macksmom/whelping.jpg

Ok everyone... I think TODAY is the day!

Last night Ava started acting out of the norm. She tried to get out of the gate when I let her outside, which she hasn't done in about 2-3 weeks. She is ALWAYS in the same room as me, either laying on the couch or floor. Last night I would look up and couldn't find her... she had started going to her whelping box, which she has NEVER done unless its time for bed.

This morning I let her out to potty and she came in and went right back to her whelping box and didn't leave it... very unusual for her. I got my daughter ready for school and went to check on Ava. She had either vomited or her water broke. I wasn't there for the incident so I'm not sure which (but I have read vomiting is a sign of labor). She was licking the area. I took out her bedding and it was soaked down to the bottom of the box.

She just now came out of her box and is laying on her favorite couch now... probably because I am in here.

Ahhhhh lol, trying to talk myself down because I am home alone. My husband is at work and my little girl is at school.

Should I babygate her in the room with her whelping box so she can stay in there, or is it okay to let her out around the house?

MM, she seems to have adjusted to the box but if you are afraid she is going to give birth on your couch, a baby gate isn't a bad idea. Is it difficult for you to go and check on her often? Did you get a check list together, print out Flcutie's advice, and the other whelping info that labman and I gave to you in the links? Read them all over just to calm and reassure yourself. I know it will be fine. Make sure you have your vet's phone number very handy in case no one is here to help you and you need someone immediately.

I am sure you will do a fine job! You are a smart woman, you know enough about childbirth in humans, so really, how difficult can this be? If Ava appears uncomfortable just pet her and talk to her softly. Sometimes just the sound of our voices help calm them.

She could vomit again or her water break. If so, it might be better on the hardwood floor. I think it should take anything cleaned up promptly.

I am not sure your whelping box is big enough. The mothers need room to carry the babies away from the rest for elimination. That keeps their sleeping and feeding area clean, the first step in housebreaking. I am happy to see it in the house. Unsealed wood is hard to clean. That may not be very important since you don't plan additional litters.

MM, she seems to have adjusted to the box but if you are afraid she is going to give birth on your couch, a baby gate isn't a bad idea. Is it difficult for you to go and check on her often? Did you get a check list together, print out Flcutie's advice, and the other whelping info that labman and I gave to you in the links? Read them all over just to calm and reassure yourself. I know it will be fine. Make sure you have your vet's phone number very handy in case no one is here to help you and you need someone immediately.

I am sure you will do a fine job! You are a smart woman, you know enough about childbirth in humans, so really, how difficult can this be? If Ava appears uncomfortable just pet her and talk to her softly. Sometimes just the sound of our voices help calm them.

Well the loveseat is her favorite spot... when we are all in the living room she claims that seat haha.
But since last night she has been going to her box a lot... which she has never done until last night.
Her "room" is on the first floor (thought her being upstairs would be hard). It is my mudroom/foyer right off the kitchen. We stopped using the back door for about a week ago and only use the front door, so it stops traffic from going to that room.
She wants to be in any room I am in, I sat with her in "her" room this morning for awhile.

But yes, I can check on her often and it can be babygated so Lennox doesn't get near her. I removed his kennel from that room this morning.

I printed up any and everything you all have sent me and made notes from the books.

I hope all goes well!

Good luck MM. I have been following this post all along. But, I felt I should just send you some love and luck. I'll be thinking about you.

She could vomit again or her water break. If so, it might be better on the hardwood floor. I think it should take anything cleaned up promptly.

I am not sure your whelping box is big enough. The mothers need room to carry the babies away from the rest for elimination. that keeps their sleeping and feeding area clean, the first step in housebreaking. I am happy to see it in the house. Unsealed wood is hard to clean. That may not be very important since you don't plan additional litters.

Well I built the box according to what all the whelping books said.:( They said to make it big enough for her to stretch out, but small enough so she could brace herself against the walls during labor.
The books said for the first few weeks there didn't need to be a separate area for the pups to go potty... that she would stimulate them and somewhat clean up after them and just to change the bedding often. They said at about 2-3 weeks make an area off the box that can be used for paper training... at that point I was going to cut out a "door" on the left side and put newpaper down out side of the box. And they said to leave the papers with the smell on them but keep changing the bedding... so the papers smell like potty and the bed stays smelling clean.

Only the sides of the box are unfinished. I got a tile floor (excess cuts from Home Depot) and nailed it to the bottom of the bed. So the bottom is not wood. But yeah, like you said... there will be NO more litters after this one, so the box can be pitched.

So I built the box like the books told me... should I take off a wall after she has the pups? To do what you are saying?

She has stopped eating... but luckily she is drinking a lot of water.

Good luck MM. I have been following this post all along. But, I felt I should just send you some love and luck. I'll be thinking about you.

Thanks Tuscany :D

Let's hope all goes well and I can do this on my own... or that Ava holds off until my husband gets home! Lol

Ok no puppies yet.

But earlier this afternoon I heard Ava trying to go upstairs... she NEVER goes up there unless she is following me. So I called her back down to me. She started panting a little bit so I babygated her in her room.

I have been checking on her every 10 minutes or so (except when I just went to pick up my daughter). Just checked on her and now she is shivering a bit.

Hopefully my husband will get home before she starts!

You poor thing! I think you are going to have a tougher time than Ava! You are doing just fine. I know it will be easier for you if your husband is there. I do hope that he does get home before she starts. Do you have any friends or neighbors close by who are good at keeping you calm? Maybe they would be willing to hang out with you for a while.

I don't doubt there aren't books out there that say that. After all, I see tons of questions from people having trouble housebreaking puppies and ones that soil their crate. Knocking a side off and putting down papers outside it would be a good idea.

Besides removing the puppies from their bed to eliminate, mothers will eat the stools too.

Get them whelped, and worry about keeping them clean later.

Oh, the better job of keeping them clean you do, the better the puppies smell.

Ok... quick update... my husband just came home to give me a small break before he had to leave for class...

2 puppies so far!! :D:D

1 girl and 1 boy

Doing great, Ava is doing great and taking very good care of them... I had to help break the sac on the second pup

Both came before my husband got home! Lol

The only thing I am concerned about is I have been trying to get the pups to nurse and they are trying but I don't think Ava is lactating :(

It that normal? Will she start?

Ok got to go... update you soon :D:D:D

Ok so I think Ava is taking a break...

The first 2 puppies came pretty close together, about 20-30mins apart...

I think she has started to lactate... I know the books said once she eats the placenta it will kick start her milk. The pups are now latched on and seem to be eating. They have stopped crying.

I gave Ava some warm broth and she seems to be doing great... I can tell she's tired though :(

Wonder how long it will be before she delivers the rest...

YOU ARE DOING GREAT! What a trooper you are. :)

OK 3 and 4 came!!

She took a nice hour break between pup 2 and 3 but then puppies 3 and 4 came really close together.

Both pups 3 and 4 were girls

So so far the total is 4 puppies
3 girls and 1 boy

Everyone is doing great and Ava is a GREAT mommy!

Do you think that is it for the puppies? Think there might be one or two more? She looked awfully large. I guess you just have to keep an eye on her and see how she is managing. If she starts really moving around and appears to be perky and out of distress (no more panting or vomiting) then that would be a very good sign. I hope it is just the four of them.

I really hope its just the 4... but to be honest it really look like there is more in there. On the side of her belly that is facing up there is a definitely "ball" or bump still... I have a gut feeling there is going to be 2 more!!

But my husband is home from class now... so I can take a breather lol

Holy crap!! Didn't even finish typing this before my husband delivered another one!!

So now we are up to 5!!

Ok so puppy number 6 is here!! And it's a little girl, so that brings the total to 5 girls and 1 boy.

A few things have me concerned though...

With the 6th puppy the placenta didn't come out, Ava and I tried to pull it out but Ava ripped the cord before we could get it out. It still hasn't passed.

And once she cleaned up puppy number 6 we went to put the rest of the puppies back with her (as we have done every time she delivers a new pup) but now she started growling at the other puppies so we took them back out. We tried again, and she growled again. So we took them out.

I wonder is something wrong with puppy number 6 and Ava is trying to protect her??

Are you sure she is done delivering? It might be that she is having another one or she is just really uncomfortable at the moment. I am not sure about the placenta. I know that it can cause problem if it doesn't come out. I was about to sign off for the night but I will see what I can turn up and get back to you.

Okay, don't worry too much about the placenta not coming out immediately. It might slip out during the night or tomorrow. I am sorry I can't stay online. If your vet is aware of the situation and you encounter problems during the night, do not hesitate to call him. That is what they are there for.

Well I am having trouble getting puppy number 6 to nurse... she won't latch on :(

Can you stimulate her mouth with your finger? Is she sucking at all? Try to rub around her the outside of her mouth gently with your pinky and slowly see if she will take it in her mouth.

By the way, labman should be back later this evening. If you are having trouble he might be able to help. I hate leaving you like this but I have dogs that need to be walked and phone calls to return. :(

You might want to do an internet search on "Whelping puppies, problems" and see what turns up. You are smart enough to assess good info from bad.

Oh Ruby your fine :) Thanks for all your help... I just keep updating to allow anyone to help lol and I figure labman would be on soon.

Up to number 7!! This one is a boy... so 5 girls and 2 boys.

On puppy 6 and 7 the placenta didn't come out :(

Number 6 isn't nursing yet... I will try simulating her with my finger.

And now we have 8

5 girls and 3 boys... holy crap... how did the vet only see 2?!

Labman (since you're on lol)...

Ava has starting growling and trying to bite the puppies... my husband is sitting in there with her now and is holding her collar so she can't, and let the puppies nurse.

Is this normal? Will she stop?

I am afraid to leave her alone with all the puppies in there :(

*and I think there is still one puppy left in her... she delivered the 8th one at 9pm, it is now 10pm

9 puppies... 5 girls, 4 boys... oh my...

I simply do not know what to do about the growling. Do you have any of the books?

Yeah I have the books and have skimmed through them but don't see anything about it... she has seemed to stop.

We were removing the puppies when she would birth another one, then after she cleaned the new one we would put back the other pups so they all could nurse.
This worked fine until puppy number 6, then when we tried to give the puppies back she started growling and snapping.

So I tried a few times then tried something different that I think I remember reading about. I re-introduced each puppy by offering their rear end to her... she would lick and lick, then stop... then I could lay the puppy down and she was fine :)

So that seemed to help.

Her water broke again and I thought we were going to have a 10th puppy... but nothing so far.
She is in her room with all of the puppies and is doing great :)

Never imagined 9 puppies!!

I will load some pictures tomorrow :)

OMG! I'm so sorry that I was not online yesterday to read this post!! I feel horrible! I would have offered you some advice!!!!

I really hope Ava stopped biting the pups! =/ I hope that all of the pups are ok & healthy!!!

Is the grand total 9 pups??

Post pics! I want to see!

Ok so this morning the grand total is 9 puppies :D

5 girls and 4 boys and everyone seems to be doing great!!

Ava is still a little touchy sometimes with the puppies, but it has gotten a lot better, so hopefully it will stop soon.

Ava has the runs :( but other than that she seems to be doing great, she gets out of the box on her own when she wants to go outside.

I am going to call the vet and see if they want me to bring her in to make sure all the puppies are out and everything is okay.

Getting ready to take my little one to school, hopefully they will do OK while I'm gone (about 20 mins).

I will post some pics when I get back :)

Macksmom, congratulations. Looking forward to to seeing the pictures.

My female had 5 puppies in June.. be ready for a lot of mess.. and talk to your vet for signs of breching.. when her water breaks she will be digging a lot.. looking for a warm dark spot . Needs to be away from destractions.. and others. Needs water by her side.. and if its her first litter you might need to be there when she gives birth.. Ur vet should tell all the info you need to do medical wise.. when u see a brownish discharge her mucuise plug is braking.. so puppies will be due 72 to 24 hours.. when her water breaks.. get ready for a long wait cause it takes 30mins to an hour each pup.. and if u see a dark green discharge go to the vet right way.. there could be problems...

Congrats on the puppies. I can't wait to see the pictures. Great job Mack!

Congrats MM! You did great. It might not be a bad idea for the vet to check everything and make sure Ava is fine. Does your vet make "house calls"? There are quite a few that are willing to swing by your home and do a cursory check to make sure Momma & the pups are out of danger. They recognize that it is better to keep the pups out of the vets office at this age. I know that mine does do that.

my female had 5 puppies in june.. be ready for alot of mess.. and talk to your vet for signs of breching.. when her water breaks she will be digging alot.. looking for a warm dark spot . needs to be away from destractions..and others. needs water by her side..and if its her first litter you might need to be there when she gives birth.. Ur vet should tell all the info you need to do medical wise..when u see a brownish discharge her mucuise plug is braking ..so puppies will be due 72 to 24 hours.. when her water breaks.. get ready for a long wait cause it takes 30mins to an hour each pup.. and if u see a dark green discharge go to the vet right way.. there could be problems...

Thanks for the advice lol but if you read the entirety of the post... Ava had her puppies last night :) ;)

Ok so I have a vet appt at 11:30 just to make sure everything is okay with Ava because I could have sworn she was going to have a 10th puppy.

Here are some pics...

Puppy number one
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c105/macksmom/IMG_0128.jpg

Puppy number two
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c105/macksmom/IMG_0138.jpg

After 2 Ava was pooped lol
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c105/macksmom/IMG_0144.jpg

Puppy 3
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c105/macksmom/IMG_0151.jpg

And 4
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c105/macksmom/IMG_0152.jpg

And then there were 5
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c105/macksmom/IMG_0156.jpg

Oh good lord they are adorable. That cream one with white face what a cutie. I wish you lived closer to me I would take one!

Puppy 6
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c105/macksmom/IMG_0157.jpg

And 7
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c105/macksmom/IMG_0158.jpg

And 8
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c105/macksmom/IMG_0160.jpg

And finally puppy number 9
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c105/macksmom/IMG_0170.jpg

Ava is exhausted
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c105/macksmom/IMG_0174.jpg

This morning... a proud mama
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c105/macksmom/IMG_0183.jpg

Good lord! How are you going to let them go?! They are each so adorable!

Ava is such a good mommy :D

http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c105/macksmom/IMG_0165.jpg
http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c105/macksmom/IMG_0175.jpg

I wonder what the father was. There are so many light colored ones!

Oh good lord they are adorable. That cream one with white face what a cutie. I wish you lived closer to me I would take one!


Good lord! How are you going to let them go?! They are each so adorable!

Thanks :D:D I think they are just precious!!

Where you at... I'm up for a road trip in about 8 weeks! Hahaha

I wish I could keep them all! LOL

I wonder what the father was. There are so many light colored ones!

Yeah, definitely think the father was cream colored haha!

They are just beautiful MM! Ava looks like a pitbull/black lab cross, At this age, it is very hard to tell what the pups are crossed with. On top of that, there are so many recessive genes in both labs and pits, so even as they grow into adulthood, you might never know what they are. If she mated with another cross breed, it's one of those "good luck figuring it out" situations! LOL!

I cannot believe 9 puppies! What a shock!

Thanks Ruby :D Yeah, that's what we figured Ava was... because I was informed (through here I think) that black labs can have the spotted tongue, which she has.

Just got back from the vet... Ava got a shot to contract her uterus to expel anything else, and she and the puppies got a clean bill of health :D

Did find out something I didn't know... these puppies could have more than 1 father. She said since there are 9 puppies they could have as many as 9 different fathers!!
Wow... something I didn't know!

So everyone checked out, and we are getting ready to schedule to get their dew claws removed here shortly :)

Everyone at the vet office was in shock when we brought in 9 puppies! They said they all looked at the x-ray to see if there were more puppies, but at the time everyone only saw 2... no one thought she would have 9 lol

Very good MM. So glad that things worked out. For all you have been through since adopting Ava I am glad that it all went smoothly.

Maybe you or Ruby can answer a question for me... actually you made me wonder about it.

Is it common to have dew claws removed? Why do they do it? I only ask because Tuscany still has his and the vet never mentioned removing them.

.

Maybe you or Ruby can answer a question for me...actually you made me wonder about it.

Is it common to have dew claws removed? Why do they do it? I only ask because Tuscany still has his and the vet never mentioned removing them.

I actually have no clue lol I just read it in all the puppy books... they say to have the dew claws removed between 3-5 days old.

I really don't know why they have to be removed lol

Ok, so here's the deal.

I adopted a dog from the shelter last month. They were not sure if she was spayed but scheduled her to be...her appt was for December 6th. This last week my husband and I have been noticing what we thought might be pregnancy symtoms. I asked around on here and finally got her into the vet today.

Sure enough she is pregnant, and is only about 3 weeks away from delivering!!!!!!:eek:

The vet said through Xray, they could see at least 2 puppies...but there could be more.

I need ANY and ALL help/advice on what I need to do to get ready!!!!
Ok if your Dog is going to have puppies it's simple, make sure that she or he is in a enclosed space like a box and make sure it's warm cause the puppies might die, if ity's to cold. And maybe go pick up a book about that. Also MAKE SURE NONE OF THE PUPIES COME OUT BREACH!! or you will have serious problems!

Ok if your Dog is going to have puppies it's simple, make sure that she or he is in a enclosed space like a box and make sure it's warm cause the puppies might die, if ity's to cold. And maybe go pick up a book about that. Also MAKE SURE NONE OF THE PUPIES COME OUT BREACH!!!!or you will have serious problems!!
Make sure you read the entire thread before you post your answer. Mack has already had the puppies and has posted pictures to share with us.

I really don't know why they have to be removed lol

I just googled that since I didn't know why either. Apparently, the dew claws may help an emerging puppy get out of the sac during birth. Then the dew claws become unnecessary and can scratch littermates, hurt the mom while nursing, and catch on clothing and other fabrics throughout the dog's life. Clipping is supposed to be painless and bloodless. The rest of the newborn puppy's nails should be clipped too.

I think my four cats and I would absolutely LOVE to adopt one of those adorable puppies!!

Well anyone interested let me know lol... didn't ever think we would end up with 9!!

Going to need to take out a small loan just for vet visits hahahaha :P

Well Ava and the pups are are still doing great :D

Some good news... we called the shelter to reschedule her spaying appt that was set for next week. We told them she was pregnant when we adopted her, and asked was there anything they could do to help.

They said once the puppies are weened, we could bring them in and they would vaccinate them all for free :) So that will help since it's such a large litter.

Also, Ava's top lip is getting red and chapped from all the licking of herself and the puppies... is there anything I can do to relieve it?

Not sure what to do about the lip, perhaps her own Chap Stick?

On dewclaws. Dogs are just as well without them. Owners more so. Even with good instructions, removing them might best be left to the experienced. No sense learning skills on them you don't plan to need in the future.

I would hope that MM will have the vet take care of the dew claws! I wouldn't even want to try that. MM, you should call the vet about the lip issue. I don't know if they would recommend using Panalog ointment to help heal it. Years ago, my vet gave me that for irritation that looked like sores around Ruby's mouth when I first brought her home. It cleared up the problem. I use it whenever she has distressed skin areas, small cuts & chapped skin in the winter.

I've heard from someone else that they used to remove the dew claws b/c when they were used for hunting, they would often get snagged on things & rip off! I didn't do anything to modify Tyson, Sasha, or any of the 11 puppies. We love them just the way they are! I know a lot of people like to crop the ears and/or tail, but I think it makes the dogs look "mean". I think they are much cuter looking w/ both their floppy ears & long baseball bat, table clearing, tail! Tyson's tail is a freaking whip! He can knock almost anything off a table w/ one swipe!
I saw the pics & THEY ARE ABSOLUTELY ADORABLE!!!! I've never heard that because she had 9 puppies, there could be as many as 9 fathers!!
Sasha had 11 puppies all from Tyson alone! And we had a mix, just like you! That's because Sasha's brindle & Tyson's rednose. We got only 4 regular brindle, 1 really really really light tan colored rednose, 2 tiger-striped rednose, 1 light chocolate reverse brindle, 1 normal reverse brindle, 1 rednose w/ a white stripe b/t it's eyes & down its nose & then one like your #7 puppy-- a brindle w/ white socks, white stripe down it's nose & head & white chest. So WE DEF HAD A DIVERSE MIX OF PUPPIES!!!! But they were all from the same daddy!!
I wonder b/c the vet said you might have 9 baby daddies... IF Sasha had so many puppies b/c Ty & Sasha made sexy time like 4 different times!!

Ok, so here's the deal.

I adopted a dog from the shelter last month. They were not sure if she was spayed but scheduled her to be...her appt was for December 6th. This last week my husband and I have been noticing what we thought might be pregnancy symtoms. I asked around on here and finally got her into the vet today.

Sure enough she is pregnant, and is only about 3 weeks away from delivering!!!!!!:eek:

The vet said through Xray, they could see at least 2 puppies...but there could be more.

I need ANY and ALL help/advice on what I need to do to get ready!!!!
That was really nice of the shelter to offer to vaccinate them all for free!! Most places wouldn't give a crap if they sold you a pregos dog!! They would say, too bad, it's your problem! I'm glad there's still some nice, caring people out there!!!
I KNOW that their first vet bill for their vaccanations is REALLY REALLY EXPENSIVE!!!

Also, the vet told me that most puppies are born w/ worms. I'm not sure if that meant most pit puppies or just puppies in general. So I would ask the shelter about deworming them for you too! Hopefully they will do this for you free of charge!

What I recommend to help find the puppies homes is. MAKE A FLYER w/ PICS OF ALL THE PUPPIES!!! Include one of the mother. Bring them to different vets offices & post them up so hopefully some people will buy them from you, so you don't have to take them to the shelter! Also, I posted a flyer up at Publix & Walmart.. And I even went to Best Buy & Circuit City & asked an employee to post up a flyer in their breakroom! I REALLY HOPE YOU FIND GREAT HOMES FOR ALL 9 PUPS & don't have to bring them to the shelter =/

On dewclaws. Dogs are just as well without them. Owners more so. Even with good instructions, removing them might best be left to the experienced. No sense learning skills on them you don't plan to need in the future.


I would hope that MM will have the vet take care of the dew claws!

Oh I would definitely have a vet do the removing of the dewclaws... no way I would try that myself!! LOL

But I just wasn't sure if that was something necessary or just cosmetic.


I didn't do anything to modify Tyson, Sasha, or any of the 11 puppies.

So did any of your dogs or puppies have problems with the unremoved dew claws?

I will check with my vet Monday Ruby and see what she recommends for the chapped lip... its probably because I have a space heater in her room, and with all the licking and dry air. I just wasn't sure if there was a home remedy, like vaseline or A&D or something like that.

The vet said to bring the puppies back at 2-3 weeks to get wormed... not sure how much all that will cost, but I will check with the shelter and see if they will offer to do that too... worth a shot :)

My vet gave me a few numbers of people/organizations that work with trying to get dogs, more specifically, pregnant dogs... out of shelters. She said they maybe could help find homes for the puppies. I already have 1 for sure buyer and 2 maybes... but just never thought there would be 9 puppies lol, so I may need to look into advertising them once they become of age.
My vet said she also does pediatric spaying and neutering, so that would be an option if we have trouble finding homes.
It shouldn't be too hard to find homes though, because I am not looking to make a profit off these puppies. Just break even with the vet visits. It's a joy to have them, and Ava takes the most care of them... so its not like I was "put out" by them. So I will ask for them what I paid in shots, worming, and general vet care costs.

My vet suggested something that I thought was cool... she said the 2 numbers she gave me are people that work at getting pregnant dogs out of shelters. She said I could be a foster mom for pregnant dogs, and take care of them until they have their litter... ween them, then this organization finds homes :) I thought that was pretty cool :)

About the dew claws... I poked around the net some, and it seems to be an "it depends" kind of thing. Apparently dew claws run the gamut from dangly-mostly-just-nail to entire extra toes with bone. If they are loose dangly ones, you run the risk of them getting caught and torn in normal life. And those are fairly simple to remove, especially when the pup is young. The ones that are more like extra toes are less likely to be damaged by normal life, but are also much more difficult to remove, especially when the dog is older.

So sometimes it's strictly a cosmetic procedure, and sometimes there is a medical reason for doing it.

About the dew claws... I poked around the net some, and it seems to be an "it depends" kind of thing. Apparently dew claws run the gamut from dangly-mostly-just-nail to entire extra toes with bone. If they are loose dangly ones, you run the risk of them getting caught and torn in normal life. And those are fairly simple to remove, especially when the pup is young. The ones that are more like extra toes are less likely to be damaged by normal life, but are also much more difficult to remove, especially when the dog is older.

So sometimes it's strictly a cosmetic procedure, and sometimes there is a medical reason for doing it.

Hmmmm... thanks froggy... that is some interesting information.
I noticed last night that Ava still has her dew claws, my older sister has 2 yorkshire terriers and she said she never got their dew claws removed.

Guess I'm just torn as to what to do... I mean if it is something that most definitely needs done, then of course I would do it... but if its something that doesn't NEED to be done, and can be done later if I see the dew claws causing problems then I would just as well wait and see.

Ugh lol:o

MM, I would say to work with your vet on this decision. It appears that your pups have a bit more hair than most pitbulls & pb mixes. Dogs with very short hair have more of a tendency to tear the nail on the dew claw when running around outside than dogs with longer hair, which seems to protect it. Tearing the nail is very painful for them. If you live in a more urban area, I would say that it is not a necessity. Unfortunately, the older a dog is the more complicated and painful the surgery. It is considered a very minor and painless procedure when they are new borns. But who really knows that. I am of the school that if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I don't agree with tail and ear docking. Yet, because of where I live, in the boonies where there are brambles & creepers on my property, my rescued pit tore her dew claws three times. It was awful to see her suffering each time. After speaking with the vet about it, I promised myself after the first time, if it happened more than twice, I would get it done. Well, she was about a year and half by the third time she tore another one. It was major surgery, very painful for her, and the vet who was supposed to be the best in my area, did a lousy job. If I had to do it over again, I probably wouldn't. But, if the vet I have now who I have full trust in, recommended doing it to a new born, I would probably have it done to avoid the possibility of future problems. Bottom line is, it is not an easy call.

Ugh lol

Well the weird thing was when we took Ava and all the puppies to the vet Friday, the vet mentioned the worming of the puppies and such but never mentioned dew claws. From all the reading I had done when Ava was pregnant I knew it mentioned removing dew claws within the first week of life. So when the vet was finished with us and getting ready to walk out the dog... it was my husband that piped up and asked about the dew claws.

Guess I will try to do some more research on it.

I would start with American Veterinary Medical Association (http://www.avma.org), Articles (http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/articles.html), and American Kennel Club - akc.org (http://www.akc.org). It is much easier to find material on the net about dogs than know if it is to be trusted. The net is full of sites put up by kooks with an agenda. Even otherwise well meaning people don't understand that there is better information available, and just go on repeating the myths of the 50's.

Dumb, dumb, dumb! I didn't bring the subject up at the party I was at this afternoon. The one lady there had the mother of 2 of the puppies I raised. The hostess breeds Welsh Corgis. Instead we talked about how to mark puppies so you can tell which is which. It is tough telling a whole litter of black Labs apart. I know years ago some of the puppies I raised had their dew claws removed, but not the more recent ones. If the dog guide school isn't doing it now, it must not be that important.

Thanks for the links labman :)

It is helpful to know, in the case of your labs, that they aren't removing the dew claws anymore.

I don't in anyway want to be neglectful, just wasn't too sure if it was needed.
Thank you.

Update for everyone... the puppies are doing great!

It looks like they have already doubled in size! Haha

Ava is doing great as well... kind of weird seeing her so small, she was big and muscular when we adopted her, then just got bigger and bigger haha now she looks really small lol.
But she is eating well and being a great mom.

She is seeming more that she is wanting some time to herself, away from the puppies... I will let her roam around the house for a little bit but then try to get her back to the puppies. And if she hears any of them cry she runs for them anyway :)

Well everyone can you believe it... the puppies are 2 1/2 weeks old! :D

I will post pictures of them in a bit.

Their eyes are open and they are starting to walk :)

A few things I need some advice on...

Ava is still stimulating them to go to eliminate (although they really don't need it anymore, I have seen them go by themself), but she is cleaning up after them and not taking them to the newspaper. It that okay to expect because they are so young? Is there anything I can do, now that they are starting to walk, to try and get them to start going on the paper?

Also, I will start weaning them next weekend. I wrote down the recipe for the formula flcutiepye gave... but labman mentioned not to include the egg. Should I make the formula or just buy puppy milk replacer at the store?
And should I just do milk for a little bit, or do you suggest softening food in it from the start. (I think the books said start with just milk until they all are lapping it, then add food but I thought I would see if anyone had suggestions).

They are all doing so great... nice and fat haha. I clipped everyone's nails today too :)

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The dog guide school likely knows more than most people that write books. Where do the people that write books get their info?

They skip the milk, egg, etc. Just wet the dry puppy chow down good with water. You want a soupy mush at first. If they don't eat it, get some on your finger and stick it in their mouth.

Since your box was so small, the mother may feel she has to clean up after them rather than remove them to eliminate.

Ok so no formula... just puppy food soaked in milk? That makes sense to me because they will still be nursing from Ava, just not as much... so they will be getting their milk from her.

I've read two differnet things, one said to serve the mush at room temp, one said heat it up... any suggestions on that?

Well as far as the box goes, I did what you said after she had them. I knocked off one side and put newpaper out that side. Yesterday, since they have started walking, we knocked off the front side and laid carpet so they would have a little play area. I just wasn't sure was there something I could be doing to get them paper trained.

No, no, no, water, not cows' milk. Cows milk has indigestible lactose in it.

I can't remember on heating it. Don't see how having it lukewarm or a little more at first could hurt.

Oh crap lol I meant to type water in that post... thus saying it made sense because they would be getting milk from Ava still lol opps :o

I see you have made 1434 posts. Any human will make a few mistakes.

I was told not to give the puppies cow's milk... I asked the vet about the homemade formula before I fed it to the puppies & he said it was good. I know that making the formula saved me a lot of money from buying store bought formula, but I also needed it because Sasha wasn't producing enough milk for 11 pups!

I can't believe how big they've gotten!!! They are beautiful!! They look like they are VERY healthy!! You've done an AMAZING JOB & should be PROUD OF YOURSELF!!!

Have you found homes for any of them yet?

My favorite pup is the gray & white one! Many of your pups have a lot more hair than mine did! It's soooo cute though!!

Yeah, Ava had 9 puppies but only 8 nipples... but she does a great job feeding them all, as you can see from the pictures they are fat :)

The gray puppy with the white stripe has found a home with my friend... of course all the puppies will be here until they are at least 8 weeks old. But she has chosen him :) A few more friends are interested. We just never imagined there were going to be 9... so we didn't worry about spreading the word too much when she was pregnant, trying to find homes.

But once they get of age I will advertise to find homes for them.

I think they are going to be pretty big dogs... I mean we rescued Lennox when he was about 4-6 weeks old and these puppies at 2 1/2 weeks are already bigger than he was when we brought him home... and Lennox is 25lbs now.

But they couldn't have been born in a better place. Since we live kind of out in the country, you don't see many small dogs around here... they are all bigger breeds... so hopefully it won't be too hard to find them homes.

It is extremely important puppies have a wide variety of experience before they are 12 weeks old. Undoing the damage of poor early socialization is very difficult if even possible. ALL the careful, controlled studies agree on this, or at most extend the time to 16 weeks. I answer more dog questions on another site than here. Almost every day somebody has bought a 3-4 month old puppy that wants nothing to do with them. It is just one more way the puppy mills and backyard breeders, that are no better, ruin puppies.

So far you have done an excellent job on a difficult task you never expected. Any puppies you don't get into a new home soon after 8 weeks, need to spend time with men, women, kids, etc.

Yeah I have read up on the importance of socialization, and have re-read things you have posted on it to me and others :)
I recently bought The Ultimate Puppy Toolkit which gives a lot of helpful advice and games etc.

I'm a stay at home mom... so luckily it is easy for me to interact with the puppies often. What I usually do I about once every few hours I go in and sit in their room and they start waking up to eat. I picked each one up and hold it different ways, pet it, etc. I give each one their own individual attention.
When my 5 year old daughter gets home from school, she joins the routine with me :) She is very gentle with the puppies, but I want to get them used to unsteady hands.
Then when my husband gets home he joins in too... so we all get to sit in there and let them approach us and make sure to handle each one.
Ava is still very very attentive and protective, so we can't take the puppies anywhere away from her unless we take them all.
I have read that I will need to start walking with each one around the house so they are introduced to new sights, sounds, smells etc. So I plan to be doing that soon.

Any suggestions you have with your experience raising, training, and socializing would be great.

I know it is going to be tough with 9, but I want to work really hard with each one so they become great companions and don't regress.

I am willing to keep them until I place them in a home. I refuse to take them to a shelter or pet store where just any joe blow can "buy" them. So I want to make sure I do all I can to get them well socialized and trained.

Invite you friends and family to come see the puppies. They need to see more than just the 3 of you. There is always some danger of other people carrying in disease, but it is a risk you have to take. Introduce them to terrors like the vacuum cleaner.

Yeah I have my family coming over for Christmas, so that will be a good time to interact.

I have started last week turning on the dustbuster in their room, cleaning up shreds of newspaper. It's not quite as loud as a vacuum cleaner, but close... figure they can work their way up :)

MM, you are doing an absolutely wonderful job! Good on you girl!

This might be premature, but I am going to put it out there anyway. If you decide to create flyers to help find homes for the ones you can't place, put the flyers up in all the local veterinarians offices, and the rescue you got Ava from. Just those few places should allow you to place the rest of the pups. I can help you with the wording of a flyer when you are ready, if you want me to. At that time, we can also discuss creating a contract that they must sign. Part of the contract will ensure for whatever reason if it doesn't work out, they will return the puppy to you. This will avoid them dumping the pup in a shelter or on the road.

Macksmom If I were you I would have them fill out a questionnaire, as to how they think a dog should be corrected, what forms of punishment they would use, if they have a fenced yard, how long the dog would be alone during the day, if they ever had other pets & if they still have them or what happened to them if they no longer have them. If you go on some of these rescues sites or call one in your area they may be able to provide you with a sample copy of theirs that you can tweak to your satisfaction. Not to say that they have to treat them exactly as you would yours... but there are some answers that would make me say no way.

I have found even friends and family views on how a dog should be treated and how I think they should be treated really varies.

Btw I have really enjoyed looking at these puppies thanks for posting the pictures.

Thanks Ruby and Bush... those are GREAT ideas. I want to be very careful and make sure they are placed in the right families... with people that really want them and can properly care for them.

The contracts are a great idea... especially including about spaying and neutering... that way no one is ever caught in the position I was in when I rescued Ava.

Ok, so here's the deal.

I adopted a dog from the shelter last month. They were not sure if she was spayed but scheduled her to be...her appt was for December 6th. This last week my husband and I have been noticing what we thought might be pregnancy symtoms. I asked around on here and finally got her into the vet today.

Sure enough she is pregnant, and is only about 3 weeks away from delivering!!!!!!:eek:

The vet said through Xray, they could see at least 2 puppies...but there could be more.

I need ANY and ALL help/advice on what I need to do to get ready!!!!
I have been through 2 litters of Malamutes. I used a large plastic swimming pool and blankets for the whelping box. I just changed the blankets after the last puppy was born. I used it until they started to climb out then all were placed outside.

I have been through 2 litters of Malamutes. I used a large plastic swimming pool and blankets for the whelping box. I just changed the blankets after the last puppy was born. I used it until they started to climb out then all were placed outside.

Thanks fnyldy... but when posting please make sure you read all the threads in the posting... if you had, you would have seen Ava already had her puppies... they are now almost 3 weeks old.

Well the puppies are eating on their own now, and I think Ava is pretty happy about that haha. They still nurse from her a little bit, but not as much.

I know socialization is critical during this time... when should I allow the puppies to play elsewhere, other than their whelping area? Like in the living room or other areas? And when is it okay to take them outside, since it's so cold?

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I wouldn't leave them loose in the house. Perhaps set up an exercise pen in a room with a hard surface floor. If you don't have one, perhaps cover the carpet with plastic table cloths fuzzy side up. Outdoors is a good idea, but I would limit the time and stay close. You could have a hawk looking for its next meal.

The important thing now is people, men, women, children. Other dogs known to be healthy are OK to the extent the mother tolerates them. Check some of the articles at Articles (http://www.woodhavenlabs.com/articles.html#breeding) I haven't read all of them, but most of the stuff on that site is fairly good.

Thanks labman :)

So hardwood floors are okay? All the books I got said no hardwood floors, so that is why I have kept them in the foyer/mudroom with rugs. I could babygate off the entire kitchen and they would have plenty of room to run around without risking cords or places to get behind and hide or get stuck. They kitchen is really open, but it's all hardwood floors. The rest of the house is carpet (expcept bathrooms).

I have no idea why books say no hardwood floors. Perhaps it is to protect the floor. Many hardwood floors don't have the industrial grade moisture cure urethane finish mine does. For about the last 10 years it has stood up to all the abuse the puppies could dish out.

Well it said no hardwood floors because of the lack of traction and the puppies could dislocate something if they slide or loose traction. In the picture I just posted, that is just a beach towel (we were washing the rugs) on top of the hardwood floor.

It would be great if hardwood floors are okay, because like I said, I have the entire kitchen (and its big) that they could have run of... I just haven't done it because the books said no hardwood floors lol.

I would be interested to know how much there is behind that slick floor idea. Sounds to me like one more myth of the 50's. Since we don't host breeding stock, I haven't seen the instructions for puppies. Although they often line them with papers or towels, I know my friends sometimes leave part of the dog guide school's ultra slick fiberglass whelping boxes bare. Many tile floors are just as slick as hardwood.

Are those the same books you built the little box out of?

FYI----Everything I'm typing below is from my personal experience.

I let the puppies roam freely around the living room, dining room & kitchen area very often. I put blankets on the floors & raised the air warmer so they wouldn't be cold walking on the wood & tile floors. Sometimes they would cry if they felt like they were "lost" & we just picked them up & moved them near their brothers, sisters, mommy or daddy. Other than that, they were really happy to be able to run around & play!! :) The only down side was that they would pee & poop everywhere!! We let the puppies all go outside in the backyard to play & they loved it!!! They all stayed together in groups & had so much fun being able to play in such an open space! I didn't have a single problem with them being outside... It was actually a little weird, but when they were outside, they would only go potty in the grass & not on the porch!!! It was summertime in Florida, so they didn't get cold.

As far as taking them outside to play, just monitor them. If they start to shiver, bring them back inside. If not, I don't see a problem with allowing them to go outside.

Personally, I do not recommend taking them to a dog park though b/c a lot of dogs there are not up to date w/ their shots & many have fleas!! I don't know if that's true for all dog parks/dog parks in your area. If you do decide to take them to a dog park, they usually have a section just for smaller dogs.

We actually let the dogs go swimming at around 5-6 weeks of age & they LOVED it!! :D We took all 13 dogs (11 puppies + mom & dad) to my parents house many times b/c they have a huge backyard w/ a pool. My parents also have 3 dogs (which are all up to date on all of their vaccinations) & we allowed them to play w/ the puppies & they all got along great!!! (My dogs always play w/ my parents dogs, but I was a little worried about bringing the puppies over there, at first)... My boyfriend, brother, cousin & I were in the pool area w/ the parents & one of the puppies walked under the fence around the pool & actually walked right into the pool!! (We were right there watching them to make sure he wouldn't drown). EVERY SINGLE one of the puppies could swim & LOVED it!!! We took turns allowing a few puppies to swim at a time, just incase the puppies got tired. It was a very hot day & they weren't shivering, so we let them sunbathe to dry off & also kept a water bowl that they could drink from! I was told from a vet that puppies instinctively know how to swim from birth (But I wouldn't recommend allowing them to swim until they can at least walk!!)!

I've never heard anything about not allowing the puppies to be on hardwood floors. We allowed our puppies on our tile & wood floors & they were fine! They didn't seem to have a problem with traction on our wood floors (for the most part... of course, sometimes they would fall, but they never hurt themselves)!


I would have to say that one of my favorite memories from the puppies was when I would say "come here, puppies, puppies, puppies" & then slap my hands on my knees & all 11 puppies came running towards me!!!! =o) =o) Do they respond to that with you??

How many puppies have you found homes for so far??'

Sasha is going to have her second litter in 2 weeks or less! If you'd like to see pictures, I'll post them!

:D :D Again, I think you have done a WONDERFUL JOB w/ the puppies!!!! :D :D

I would be interested to know how much there is behind that slick floor idea. sounds to me like one more myth of the 50's. Since we don't host breeding stock, I haven't seen the instructions for puppies. Although they often line them with papers or towels, I know my friends sometimes leave part of the dog guide school's ultra slick fiberglass whelping boxes bare. Many tile floors are just as slick as hardwood.

Are those the same books you built the little box out of?

I'm sure it was. When I found out Ava was pregnant I went to the library and got every single book they had on whelping puppies haha so I'm not sure which info went with which book, I just took notes from each book.

Well that is great that hardwood floors are okay :) The puppies are getting so big, that little whelping room isn't doing so great anymore. It's getting harder to separate potty area, sleep area, and play area. So I could turn that room into a strictly potty room, and they could have the run of the kitchen. :)

Thanks flcutiepye :)

Yeah I don't know if I want them to roam all over the house haha... there are too many hazards they could get into. We leave the basement door open so our cats can go up and down, so I wouldn't want them to fall down there. My daughters playroom is downstairs, so there are tons of things they could get into there. Not to mention I would rather keep them close to their potty area, to avoid them going to the bathroom everywhere.

I was more referring to playtime, and introducing them to new areas.

If it were warmer outside I wouldn't worry about taking the puppies outside. But I am in Ohio, so it's cold haha I just want to make sure it's okay to take them outside for short periods.

The puppies respond to me when I am bringing food or when my daughter is getting ready to come in a play... they love her :) Now when I step into their room they go crazy, pulling on my pants biting my toes haha... the go nuts until I sit down with them, then I am their own personal jungle gym haha!

One puppy has a for sure home with one of my friends, she has a 2 year old so she is wanting a puppy that can grow with her daughter :) She wants the little gray boy with the white stripe down his head. I have 2 more friends interested, they will be coming to see them. I haven't advertised them anywhere because they still have 4 weeks here, so I figure I might as well wait until they are closer in age to being able to go to a new home before I advertise them. And I want people to be able to sit with them and see their personalities... as they are growing into their own everyday. There is one, that's my favorite... a little girl, she is very shy and quiet, then there is a little boy that is a mama's boy... he always wants Ava haha.

Sasha's pregnant again?? Wow, Tyson got to her again? That's crazy... don't get me wrong, I think the puppies are great, but I couldn't put Ava through that again haha she is scheduled to be spayed on Feb 14th... Valentines Day haha no more puppies for us, as we weren't expecting this litter!

Prospective parents' visits are a good source of strangers for the puppies. It also give you a chance to evaluate them.

Yeah, I totally agree with you labman, and that is what I plan to do... have people that are interested, come visit with the puppies and talk to me about the puppy's potential new home and new owners.

The puppies go for their first set of shots this week, so I definitely want to wait until they have those shots before I bring unknown people into the house with them.

Okie dokie... need some more advice or insight if you have any :)

The puppies are now 5 weeks old (can you believe it!). They are doing great with softened puppy food.

My problem is that I know the books said at this point I needed to start transferring their dependency from Ava to me (people). And they seem to be doing that. Anytime I step into their room they are all over me because they know I bring their food. But they still cry and whine when they see Ava.

Ava is really over them I think. It is getting harder and harder for me to get her to go in the room with them. I basically have to drag her, then the pupppies attack her and try to nurse. They are so big, Ava can't lay down anymore to let them nurse, she just stands up and they all hang under her.

I tried to leave her out all day yesterday, but she started actively leaking milk from her teats this morning, so I just put her back in with the puppies.

The books said to try and prevent nursing from 5-7 weeks, but to put Ava back in with the puppies after they eat and at night... so how am I to prevent nursing?

When would it be okay to allow Ava to stay away from them and end their dependency to her?

I know what you mean about the puppies attacking mommy! We would take Sasha out of the puppy room & when we brought her back in, the puppies all bombarded her & tried to feed all at once! Sasha is also small like Ava & would stand while the puppies were under her nursing! The puppies got too big to nurse off Sasha when she was laying down!

"Anytime I step into thier room they are all over me because they know I bring their food."-- The puppies did the same to us! They would go CRAZY when we walked into the puppy room! When I sat with them, I was bombarded with 11 big puppies! They would climb all over me & bite at my feet & clothes! Lol

The only thing I can think of to stop the puppies from nursing is to buy a dog shirt/sweater for Ava.

"When would it be okay to allow Ava to stay away from them and end thier dependency to her?"-- I think 5 weeks. Just allow Ava to go in there to make sure they are warm enough. Also, I left the puppies w/ some stuffed animals & they loved it! I actually had Sasha lay with the stuffed animal so her scent would be on it!

The puppies are ALWAYS going to try to nurse off mommy, even if they are full! We took Sasha to the park & our friends brought 2 of the puppies to play. The puppies would not leave Sasha alone! The puppies were almost 3 months old & had been away from Sasha (in a different home) for a little over a month! They kept running in between her legs to try to nurse off her! Sasha was like, "damn it!! I thought we got rid of all of the puppies & now they're back!!" lol! Actually, even at 6 months of age, the puppies still tried to nurse off Sasha! She didn't have any milk at the time, but they still tried to suck on her nipples!

POST MORE PICS OF THE PUPPPIES!!! =o)

So the puppies are completely weaned from Ava and doing great :)

Now on to my next concern... man you all are probably sick of me haha!

Since having the puppies Ava lost SERIOUS weight. Now, of course, I know that is to be expected after carrying such a large litter, and nursing them all. But she looks borderline emaciated!!
She isn't nursing the puppies anymore, and is back on regular dog food vs puppy chow. I would have thought she would start gaining weight, but she hasn't. (I will get a picture of her tonight and load it... you all saw my proud pictures when I rescued her, so you can see how small she is now).

Are there any suggestions to help her safely gain weight?

If I don't see a drastic change this week (as it will be over a week since she stopped nursing) I am taking her to the vet to make sure everything is okay.

I mean she is acting fine, not lethargic, eating well, drinking well... she just isn't gaining any weight :(

Maybe go back to the puppy chow. Would she eat more if you gave it to her?

Yeah she eats a lot. When she was on the puppy chow and was nursing, the books said to give her 3 times the amount she usually eats, and give it to her more often so she would get the nutrition she needs while nursing. So I did that. Then when the puppies were fully weaned I switched her back to dog food, but I kept her portions big because she is so skinny and I was hoping that since she was done nursing, she would put weight on... but she hasn't.
She is just so skinny :( I mean her middle goes in so much that her hip bones stick out. Maybe I'm just being over protective, but I keep comparing her to when I first got her and she was thick and muscular (although now I realize she was pregnant at that time, although we didn't know).

I will have my husband help me take a good picture of her tonight and maybe let you guys be the judges, but I really think she is too skinny, and nothing I do is helping put weight on her.

As long as an under weight dog will eat more, pile it on as long as you have no reason to suspect a medical problem. Most of my Labs get 3-4 cups of Pro Plan adult. Lucky needed more like 6 to maintain a lean body. Peggy came to me at 7 months and 55 pounds with her ribs clearly showing. It took 7 cups of Pro Plan a day before I saw much difference. At that rate, she gained 15 pounds over the next 2 months before I cut back.

Thanks Maxs Mom for the information. I really enjoyed reading about you experience and had a good laugh as I can relate to some of what you said. I no longer feel like the long ranger.