Is that what they are making now and starting to use on animals? What are th consequences of accepting it?:eek:

I'm not really sure what you are asking here... there is a chip you can have implanted into your pet which, if your pet is lost and later found by animal control allows them to scan the chip and obtain your phone number. My dog has one, and when she got out of the yard years ago and picked up by the doggie police, they scanned her, called me, and I went to pick her up. It does not harm the animal at all.

Are you worried it might be used on people in the future, and that this is somehow the sign of the end of the world?

Consequences of accepting it, let me see, you have complete medical records with you for a hopsital if you get sick, You have the ability to stop con artists, you have the ability to help catch criminials easier.
And you of course have better control of those in the US illegally.

You can find lost children better.

So let me see, all good things, can't see a problem.

They said that social security cards, credit cards, drivers license were all marks of the beast ( try to work or get a bank account without a social security number)

But every generation have had what it thought was the amrk.

Someone told me that is was for some reason supposed to be a bad thing to accept even though it seems so good and helpful.
Like the mark of the devil? If you were to accept it you will never go to heaven?

Mark of the devil, would be any and all evil.

Having to go to the doctor,getting surgery and having to put in an artificial valve in your heart, these things are medical necessities.

Are you talking about the Anti-Christ?
I am sure that these chips are not part of that,but yes having a chip in your passport animal or any other form of thing makes it easier to track people/animals down when it is needed.
I am sure this helps those who wish to be able to control cartain things.

But do bear in mind that chips or any other electronic devices cannot control the Almighty.
Heaven is not controlled by the devil and all those who enters Heaven will do so with the mercy of the Almighty.

Someone told me that is was for some reason supposed to be a bad thing to accept even though it seems so good and helpful.
Like the mark of the devil? If you were to accept it you will never go to heaven?

Some people have too much time on their hands.

I work in a public library. Libraries are beginning to tag each book with a chip simply to get the books back again. (You would never believe how many thousands of books are stolen, even with security systems, or kept overdue or are lost and how many $$$$$ are, in effect, stolen from the taxpayers because of irresponsible patrons.) If that chip puts librarians in hell, be sure to look for me there because I totally believe in retrieving lost and overdue books.

Someone told me that is was for some reason supposed to be a bad thing to accept even though it seems so good and helpful.
Like the mark of the devil? If you were to accept it you will never go to heaven?

There are benefits to the chip system in people such as Chuck mentioned, but there are people who attribute their implementation to more sinister doings by the government. For example, if you are required to scan your chip before you enter/leave any public building, the government can see at a glance where you've been, how much time you spent there, etc. This is great for suspected child molesters who are entering schools, but what about when the feds knock on the door of every Muslim who visited the Empire State Building after a terrorist attack? Could this lead them to the attackers? Maybe, but it certainly would lead to the harassment of innocent citizens and would be an invasion of privacy. Having your medical and personal data on a chip also makes it susceptible to being "stolen" if someone is able to make a device which they can scan people at will. I'm sure someone out there would LOVE to get Bill Gates' bank info and PIN.

So there are advantages and disadvantages. If you think the implementation points to the devil, well, I'm sorry, I can't help you with that. I don't think so, but it's up to you to draw your own conclusions.

How does the implantation of RFID chips become a religious issue? Is this what the original question is about?

Many libraries now insist that a fingerprint scan be done so that a patron can always be identified as a legit, registered computer user. Schools have been doing the fingerprint scan on students to create an ID file in case a child ever goes missing. I think nursing homes here and there are doing something like that too, especially in Alzheimer's situations, in case a resident disappears.

Many religious programs have put fear in people about the mark of the beast being a chip. The chip they use to control others. It is all about interpretation but like FR.Chuck pointed out these things and advances are good for us, but in the wrong hands could be used for evil. Just like everything else we have in this world.

I'll lay it our for the ones who may not follow the technology. RFIDs (Radio Frequency Identification) are either small chips about the size of a rice grain or can be labels attached to boxes. They emit a weak signal with a code. One needs to have readers in proximity to read the code it emits. This works very well in warehousing situations for tracking of shipments and items. A privacy problem arises when the RFID is sewn into jeans for example and readers are placed in many places as it allows the building of a database of locations and movements that can be tied to an individual. The biggest issue is of course if one is required to have an RFID implanted on their person. If you live in such a country that should be enough for the populace to revolt or for the people to move from there - it is unacceptable.

Grocery stores have been tracking their foodstuffs etc. with RFIDs for quite a while, from what I've read. That's why your register tape will have on its back those store coupons for groceries you have purchased in the past.

Actually that's a function of the UPC (bar codes) which have been around forever.

Grocery packaging has RFIDs placed in it too.

I think what dragondog is referring to is found in the bible in the book of Revelation Chapter 13.

"And I saw another beast coming up out of the earth and he had two horns like a lamb and he spoke as a dragon. And he exercises all the authority the first beast in his presence, and he makes the earth and those who dwell in it to worship the first beast whose fatal wound was healed. And he performs great signs so that he even makes fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the presence of men. And he deceives those who dwell on the earth because of the signs which it was given him to perform in the presence of the beast, telling those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the beast who had the wound of the sword and has come to life. There was given to him to give breath to the image of the beast so that the image of the beast might even speak and causes many as do not worship the image of the beast to be killed. And he causes all, the small and the great and the rich and the poor and the free men and the slaves to be given a mark on their right hand or on their forehead, and he provides that no one should be able to buy or sell except the one who has the mark, either the name of the beast or the number of his name. Here is wisdom, let him who has understanding calculate the number of the beast, for the number is that of a man, his number is six hundred and sixty-six."

The following is written by John MacArthur who is a well respected pastor in Panorama City, California with over 38 years under his belt. His website is called Grace to You and can be found at Welcome to Grace to You (http://www.gty.org).

"Here is the world religious leader who aids and abets the Antichrist. Remember in the first ten verses you have the picture of the Antichrist, the first beast and here is his cohort, the second beast, namely the false prophet as he is called in chapter 16 verse 13, chapter 19 verse 20 and chapter 20 verse 10.

So, he causes everybody to be given a brand, a brand that is readily identifiable. We learn more about it in verse 17. "And he provides that no one should be able to buy or to sell except the one who has the brand, or the mark." In other words, you can't be involved in daily commerce, you're going to starve to death frankly. You can't buy anything and you can't sell anything. You can't get any food, you can't go to the source of food and buy it because you don't have the brand. And you can't get anybody to buy it from you because you don't have the brand and you can't get any money, you can't involve yourself in daily commerce, the needs of life are therefore cut off to you. Except the one who has the mark.

Now you get the picture. One world power ruling the globe, one system of economic operation, one central controlling computer with the name of everybody. Very likely currency is gone. Controlled credit takes over. And rather than a card, which can be stolen or lost, you have a mark...a mark which identifies you as a part of the system. The mark is in your forehead or the mark is in your hand.

What is this? Well we already have it. You use it all the time. You've seen the little black strip on the back of your credit card? That contains all the necessary data to let the computer know you're in the system. And you see on everything you buy a little bar code. That's another way that the computer identifies what is passing in front of the scanner.

I have received in the mail a most interesting packet of information and discussion of where bar coding is going and I have some little samples of the sophistication of the newer kinds of bar code devices. It was sent to me by someone who wanted me to kind of understand how this fits in to prophecy, and I responded to the individual.

What it is is a little bar code system encased in a little plastic container that is designed to be embedded under your skin. It is already being used by dog owners. People who worry about losing their dog when a dog is found, the scanner exists at the pound, you pass the dog under the scanner. He's got this little bar code underneath his skin that causes him no problem at all, but it indicates immediately what dog it is and who he is and where he lives. Very simple device to us because we're used to this. Incomprehensible in ancient times. Without a global ability to identify everybody, such as you have today, the whole operation of Antichrist couldn't happen. Now it can happen, folks, you're all in the computer...all of you.

It never ceases to amaze me that I go to some city, some other part of the country and walk up to some obscure wall and stick my little card in to get cash, and it says, "Good morning, John MacArthur, what do you want? Do you want money? How much and from what account? Would you like more information? Would you like another transaction?" And you feel like saying, "Yeah, how's my wife and kids?" "Fine." And you know they know everything because systematically you've given it all to them. And when it reduces itself to the absence of credit cards and you've got to put your hand over there, or pass your forehead by the scanner and there isn't any bar code there, you don't exist. And when you can't function and you can't operate, the death sentence is on you. We are capable of doing every bit of that and having a cashless society where you never have any money, it's just a debit/credit system, you work and your employer from a computer puts into your bank account a proper figure called pay and when you buy it is deleted. And life will depend upon the bar code, the mark.

A man from Bulgaria under communism wrote some very interesting words. This is what he wrote, "You cannot understand and you cannot know that the most terrible instrument of persecution ever devised is an innocent ration card. You cannot buy or sell anything except according to that little card. If they please, you can be starved to death. If they please, you can be dispossessed of everything you have, you cannot trade, you cannot buy, you cannot sell without it," end quote. The tragic testimony of a man caught in the communist takeover of Bulgaria.


SORRY, DIDN'T REALIZE IT WAS SOOO LONG!

Grocery packaging has RFIDs placed in it too.Agreed but that technology is used in the storage and transportation of the product. Good old bar codes are still used at checkout.

Yes, but those chips end up in your shopping cart, get scanned when you purchase groceries, and end up in your pantry. They are just sitting there happily inactive all that time?

I believe the rfids are only used in the bulk packaging of the product i.e. on the box containing 200 granola bars packages which get shelved and the box gets destroyed. The scanners at the cash are optical whereas the scanners required to read rfids are not (more like a radio receiver). If there are rfids in the food products it's not as big an issue since you bring the products home (no reader there) and destroy the packaging.

I know what you're talking about from Revalation, but I don't think that has anything to do with microchiping pets. That's talking about the apocalyptic, end of the world stuff. The pet micro chip thing is a really good idea. I have a dog and I would like to get one put in her. I agree with Fr_Chuck, people have thought that things in the past were the "mark of the beast" and people are OK with those things now. I think that as our technology improves, we have a responsibility to use it for good and not for evil. And I think we are using it for good, like medical records, finding our pets and kids, and making sure we stay safe. I don't think you are going against anything God says by having a microchip put in your dog. Don't worry about it.

So is it not a bad thing to have people with implanted chips? Now like the process of the end of the world type thing? Well basically what I thought was that is was some bad thing that people were meant to refuse but some would be drawn too... (sorry I'm probably confusin everyone)

No, it's not a bad thing. There are very good reasons for these chips. Put your Alzheimer's parent in a nursing home without one and hope the home has tight security so your parent doesn't wander away. (My grandfather left one years ago in order to supposedly go to his former home--we thought, and was lost for a whole 24 hrs. He could have died on the street. With a chip, he would have been located almost instantly.)

Be careful to think through what you read and what people tell you. Visit your local public library for books and articles on e.g. RFIDs. The more informed you are, the less often you will be snookered.

consequences of accepting it, let me see, you have complete medical records with you for a hopsital if you get sick, You have the ability to stop con artists, you have the ability to help catch criminials easier.
And you of course have better control of those in the US illegally.

You can find lost children better.

So let me see, all good things, can't see a problem.

They said that social security cards, credit cards, drivers license were all marks of the beast ( try to work or get a bank account without a social security number)

But every generation have had what it thought was the amrk.

Wait, was the person posting talking about animal chipping? Because you're talking about humans now?? I'm not sure what you're talking about... but it sounds frightening.

Fr_Chuck, some priests (the holiest of men) have molested children. Now, is it not a simple argument to say, "you have to trust him, because he is a priest. Give him total control". When even the most holiest can't always be trusted, believe me that whoever would be controlling chipping in people, is risky too.

What you are saying is to hand over a great amount of control, to whoever would be controlling those chips, without any critical thought.

Yes, many cases of priests molesting children have happened, or businesses acting corruptly, or governments lying to their citizens... and you say that you can't think of any possible "bad" coming out of chipping?

Wait, was the person posting talking about animal chipping? Because you're talking about humans now??? I'm not sure what you're talking about...but it sounds frightening.

Fr_Chuck, some priests (the holiest of men) have molested children. Now, is it not a simple argument to say, "you have to trust him, because he is a priest. Give him total control".

What you are saying is to hand over a great amount of control, to whoever would be controlling those chips, without any critical thought.

Yes, many cased of priests molesting children have happened, or businesses acting corruptly, or governments lying to their citizens...and you say that you can't think of any possible "bad" coming out of chipping?

Woah there, I think you've taken this thread in a whole new direction. Where did you get priests molesting children from anyone's post?

The OP was referring to animal tags being put into humans and wondering if that is a sign the world is coming to an end.

The truth is RFID chips can have some benefits, but they also have some drawbacks. In a free country, it's none of the govt's business where you go or how long you stay there. RFID chips could eventually tell govt officials such things as that. That's a drawback. BUT, if a senior citizen or child gets lost, or if a person is found dead with no ID, a scan of a chip would tell officials who they are. That's a benefit. Perhaps Chuck had not considered the drawbacks to chips, or perhaps he decided not to mention them in his post. Either way, nothing he, or anyone else said should have led you to your molestation comments.

Woah there, I think you've taken this thread in a whole new direction. Where did you get priests molesting children from anyone's post?

The OP was referring to animal tags being put into humans and wondering if that is a sign the world is coming to an end.

The truth is RFID chips can have some benefits, but they also have some drawbacks. In a free country, it's none of the govt's business where you go or how long you stay there. RFID chips could eventually tell govt officials such things as that. That's a drawback. BUT, if a senior citizen or child gets lost, or if a person is found dead with no ID, a scan of a chip would tell officials who they are. That's a benefit. Perhaps Chuck had not considered the drawbacks to chips, or perhaps he decided not to mention them in his post. Either way, nothing he, or anyone else said should have led you to your molestation comments.

It's an analogy. Look back at my post, and you will discover that the central theme has not changed at all. You need to look more critically at the argument.

I was giving an example that giving power to even, say for instance, "the people who are considered the most godly of men", has shown to still have some corruption and horrific cases.

I am saying, that to give powers to whoever will be controlling the RFID chips, has potential problems. It is not the "sunshine" that Fr_Chuck presented it to be.

And about me using the term "sunshine" - please don't think that I'm actually wanting you to think the argument is now about the sun.

And we have spoken of specific cases, and not of indiscriminate chipping.

It's night here. Is there sunshine where you are?

That is the way they do it. They start small and market stuff as 'for your benefit'. It is like the frog in the pot. If you put a frog in boiling water his reaction is to jump out. So put the frog in room temp. and SLOWLY increase the heat and he gets boiled to death cause he doesn't realize it is happening.
Then they snowball it to where they want it. Just like the cards that you get benefits from the store they have the magnetic strips with all your information in it and encourage you to use it by giving you the benefits. I have been reading about big brother and conspiracy theories and the Bible and heard 'prophesies' in the 70's that nobody could have understood at the time.
A lot of it adds up but a lot of it is hysteria type stuff. I have been seeing everything I have heard come to pass just as I heard in the 70's. Even the prophecy about 9/11 and how the government would use it as a reason to have more control and security.
I believe the chip is the mark of the beast and it will be mandatory by 1015 at the latest.
The prophecy I heard about people that take it they will eventually get a rash that looks like leprosy.

The "rash" is already here - MRSA.

That's a different strain most likely.

What makes you think it's a "different strain" (whatever that means)?

One can read anything one wants to into a vague Biblical prophecy. I've decided MRSA is the rash. Now what?

Wondergirl
You are missing my point.
I am saying they introduce things in a good way 'for our good' and then they evolve it to an abusive corrupt use. Yeah it is good to use it to find your pet, your kid or your Alzheimer's patients, that is to get people to accept it without questioning.

Different type strains means exactly why we are getting MRSA and other things we never had to deal with before. When you heard of the AID's virus you never heard of MRSA and you would have never thought there would be a day we had to worry about MRSA. I am telling you someday we will have to worry about another virus strain that we never thought we would have to worry about and there will probably be many more between MRSA and
The one(s) when they make taking the chip mandatory for their own reasons.

Just watch you will see end time prophecies really happening within 10 years from now.

It's an analogy. Look back at my post, and you will discover that the central theme has not changed at all. You need to look more critically at the argument.

I was giving an example that giving power to even, say for instance, "the people who are considered the most godly of men", has shown to still have some corruption and horrific cases.

I am saying, that to give powers to whoever will be controlling the RFID chips, has potential problems. It is not the "sunshine" that Fr_Chuck presented it to be.

And about me using the term "sunshine" - please don't think that I'm actually wanting you to think the argument is now about the sun.

An analogy? What's that? (That was sarcasm.)

I understand your post was using an analogy, but it doesn't change the fact, troll, that you used that particular analogy to evoke a negative emotional response which has nothing to do with the original post. Had you wanted to be mature and point out the reasons we should not put so much trust into one entity because entities with power frequently abuse their power and become corrupt, you could have done so without dragging priests and molested children into the conversation.

And what does sunshine have to do with this conversation? We're talking about RFID chips here, not the weather. Keep up with the conversation. (That was sarcasm again).

Different type strains means exactly why we are getting MRSA and other things we never had to deal with before. I am telling you someday we will have to worry about another virus strain that we never thought we would have to worry about and there will probably be many more between MRSA and the one(s) when they make taking the chip mandatory for their own reasons.

And the reason for all these strains is because humans bring them about by overmedicating with antibiotics, so that the bacteria get used to them and mutate. AIDS came from a monkey virus but didn't become the plague it was predicted to be.


Just watch you will see end time prophecies really happening within 10 years from now.

Sorry. I won't lose sleep over end-time prophecies. I've lived too long to worry about such subjective prognostications. I'll let God be God.

Just watch you will see end time prophecies really happening within 10 years from now.So I assume you have no plans to save for your retirement years then.

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