My best friend turned out to be gay(well bi to be exact) and he kind of came out to a few people. He told out main group of friends and one of his best friends since like middle school totally turned her back on him and she is just being a total hypocrite. I really don't get her at all!! Im not all right with his orientation but... hes still a friend of mine. His friend then went and told everyone including the youth pastor(cuz were all 11th and 12th grade) and he took our group of friends and told us that he has decided to turn his back on god and so the bible says that we are not to accept that lifestyle so we need to turn our back on him, not ignore him, but there's no way that we can be best friends with him. That's wrong right? I say its his life and he will have to deal with god. We aren't to turn our backs!! His stupid EX friends are being snobby and I just can not believe it!! They think they are being christians?? They are pitiful excuses of one! God died for ALL of us! He loves ALL of us. He accepts ALL of us. Im against being gay, in the sense that I see it as going against exactly what the bible says, but... they are still people that deserve gods and our love.

You know, that is a difficult question. Jesus delt with thieves, prostitutes, lepers, cripples, demons and everything else except one gay person. He did say that he who is without blame cast the first stone but I don't really know if that pertains to this one.
Obviously you don't want to mistreat someone or treat them like an outcast. I would say that you just follow the Golden Rule on this one. I think that pretty well covers everything.

It comes down to the concept of Love the Sinner, Hate the Sin. You can still show the Love of Christ to this person, just as Jesus did to the sinners of His day. You can not approve of his lifestyle, but you can tell him that you love him, and are praying for him. Think of this sin as if it was another sin. If he was a thief, you would still love him, but you could not approve of him stealing things. You would not want to be around him when he is stealing, or hear stories about him stealing. If you still know in your heart that stealing is wrong, you should be convicted to share your concern with your friend about their sin. The same applies to any sin. You can love your friend, but you can not comprimize your beliefs for a "friend".

Even when we don't understand the commands of the LORD, we are commanded to obey Him.

When everyone one comes "out of the closet" with their sins [ for example - mine includes, pride, lust, envy , anger ] and is 'cured' then they can turn their backs on your gay friend, until then we are commanded to love. It does not mean accepting sin, it means that God loves us despite our sins and therefore we should love others despite their sins.




Grace and Peace

You shouldn't just ignore him! None of them should! It was his decision and he will have to stand before God because of it. You can still be friends with him, there is nothing wrong with that! You just don't support his decision! I have a friend that's bi too. But he isn't a christian. I like him I just don't support his decision.

I don't believe we are to be around those who willfully choose to sin.


Psalm 1
The Way of the Righteous and the End of the Ungodly
1 Blessed is the man
Who walks not in the counsel of the ungodly,
Nor stands in the path of sinners,
Nor sits in the seat of the scornful;
2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD,
And in His law he meditates day and night.
3 He shall be like a tree
Planted by the rivers of water,
That brings forth its fruit in its season,
Whose leaf also shall not wither;
And whatever he does shall prosper.

For the ungodly are not so,
But are like the chaff which the wind drives away.
5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment,
Nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.

6 For the LORD knows the way of the righteous,
But the way of the ungodly shall perish.

2 Corinthians 6:14
Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?

Ephesians 5:11
And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them

I don't believe we are to be around those who willfully choose to sin.


Psalm 1
The Way of the Righteous and the End of the Ungodly
1 Blessed is the man
Who walks not in the counsel of the ungodly,
Nor stands in the path of sinners,
Nor sits in the seat of the scornful;
2 But his delight is in the law of the LORD,
And in His law he meditates day and night.
3 He shall be like a tree
Planted by the rivers of water,
That brings forth its fruit in its season,
Whose leaf also shall not wither;
And whatever he does shall prosper.

4 The ungodly are not so,
But are like the chaff which the wind drives away.
5 Therefore the ungodly shall not stand in the judgment,
Nor sinners in the congregation of the righteous.

6 For the LORD knows the way of the righteous,
But the way of the ungodly shall perish.

2 Corinthians 6:14
Do not be unequally yoked together with unbelievers. For what fellowship has righteousness with lawlessness? And what communion has light with darkness?

Ephesians 5:11
And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them
So you mean that I should just stop being friends with him? I mean what kind of witness would that be? Not one at all. God showed his love so I shouldn't? That would be more hurtful! Just dropping a friend at the side of the road and saying that I'm not your friend anymore is just wrong. Its actions like that that make people generalize christians. Just not being a friend to someone anymore would probably make them stop going to church and resent ALL churches. That's really dangerous.

I will not tell you what choice to make. I only point out what the Bible says. You are free to choose.
so you mean that i should just stop being friends with him?? i mean what kind of witness would that be? not one at all. god showed his love so i shouldnt?? that would be more hurtful! just dropping a friend at the side of the road and saying that im not your friend anymore is just wrong. Its actions like that that make people generalize christians. just not being a friend to someone anymore would probably make them stop going to church and resent ALL churches. Thats really dangerous.

The bible also supports slavery and states that women should be quiet and not equal to men.

Personally, just because he is gay SHOULD NOT mean anything. That doesn't change how funny he is, how nice he is, or anything else. Its just another form of racism, aka descrimination.

Im a christian but I don't put much thought into the bible. The bible has been translated numerous times and things could have been changed and edited.

Its so old. I hate it when people say don't talk to someone because they are gay or something. Ya you're a good friend, personally you should go to hell for that. Turning your back on people in need.

I would rather be in hell and at least no I helped people than turn my back on my friends and such and be in heaven. That's not right

The real trouble is, if we are true to God, we have to reject the gay life style, and how can you really stay "best" friends if you are agaist their sexual choices. I have "friends" who are gay, but I doubt if any of us could be best friends since I would have to denouce their lifestyle as a sin, just as if they were a drunk, a theft or any other outward sinner.

Sorry you feel that way. Hell is a lonely place of torture. You have the choice to believe what you will.
the bible also supports slavery and states that women should be quiet and not equal to men.

Personally, just because he is gay SHOULD NOT mean anything. That doesnt change how funny he is, how nice he is, or anything else. Its just another form of racism, aka descrimination.

Im a christian but i dont put much thought into the bible. The bible has been translated numerous times and things could have been changed and edited.

Its so old. I hate it when people say dont talk to someone because they are gay or something. Ya your a good friend, personally you should go to hell for that. Turning your back on people in need.

I would rather be in hell and atleast no i helped people than turn my back on my friends and such and be in heaven. Thats not right

Comments on this post
Gernald disagrees: No one sins because they don't want to. When your driving down the road and swear at someone do you not have the option to not swear?? Humans sin, that's kind of what we're best at, all we can do is hope g-d will accept us for our sinning selves.

May I refer you to the rules on comments?
Positive comments should be given under the following circumstances:
1) From the asker as a thank you
2) From other members to ratify the factual correctness of an answer
3) From other members to agree with the opinions expressed

Negative comments should be given under the following circumstances:
1) From another member when an answer is FACTUALLY wrong
2) From the asker if the advice turned out to be wrong

Negative comments should NOT be given when:
1) there is a difference of opinion not of fact
2) when a response has been added to the thread disagreeing with the opinion

*Please be aware of the rules.

Also, I disagree that people don't sin if they don't want to.

This from Romans 7:Law Cannot Save from Sin

13 Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. 15 For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. 16 If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. 17 But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. 18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. 19 For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. 20 Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me.
21 I find then a law, that evil is present with me, the one who wills to do good. 22 For I delight in the law of God according to the inward man. 23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members. 24 O wretched man that I am! Who will deliver me from this body of death? 25 I thank God—through Jesus Christ our Lord!
So then, with the mind I myself serve the law of God, but with the flesh the law of sin.

Yup I guess ill be in hell with the true good people of the world for the most part. Ill be down there with homosexuals and others who aren't bad people.

And I guess I'm not true to god for looking at how people act instead of looking at if they are just straight or christians.

If the bible said blacks were sinners would you follow that? I wouldn't be surprised if it did. It supports slavery, and who was the common slave? The blacks.

My god is a person of equality, no matter sex, race, IQ, etc...

It all depends on what you do with your life.

As I said, you are free to choose.

In addition to that, the ten commandments say that "Thoull shall not steal" or something like that, and yet I bet everyone has stolen something.

There is no commandment that says "Thoull shall not be GAY," so one can conclude that stealing is a bigger deal in gods eyes, and yet people don't discuss that. No one here can tell me they have never broken a commandment. So if you go to hell for being gay and supporting gays, Oh my god! Lawyers, doctors, priests, and all must be going to hell for working with thieves, abusers, etc.. But god forbid, if they worked with a gay person they are going to hell. I don't feel like quoting the one who said you shouldn't interact with gays because that's sinful but, that's a load of crap. Ill see you all in hell I guess, except you perfect people who think you are angels. No offense, but reading what some of you type reminds me of that Iran leader who says the hallocaust didn't exist because basically you guys are saying being gay is worse than stealing and cheating, but yet its not a commandment.

There is a difference between one who is living in sin and one who is repentant of sin. The one who repents of sin has forgiveness through Jesus Christ. I freely admit that I am a sinner. I have stolen, lied, committed adultery, prostituted my heart and my mind and my body, taken the LORD's name in vain, had other God's before Him, forsaken the Sabbath, dishonored my mother and father, Jesus said anger is the same as murder--so I'm guilty there too, I have coveted and I have made false witness against my neighbor. I am guilty of all commandments. However, Jesus promises that if I confess my sins to Him, He is faithful and just to forgive my sins and cleanse me from all unrighteousness. I understand that I am not perfect. I rely on the One Who Is.
In addition to that, the ten commandments say that "Thoull shall not steal" or something like that, and yet i bet everyone has stolen something.

There is no commandment that says "Thoull shall not be GAY," so one can conclude that stealing is a bigger deal in gods eyes, and yet people dont discuss that. No one here can tell me they have never broken a commandment. So if you go to hell for being gay and supporting gays, Oh my god! Lawyers, doctors, priests, and all must be going to hell for working with theives, abusers, etc.. But god forbid, if they worked with a gay person they are going to hell. I dont feel like quoting the one who said you shouldnt interact with gays because thats sinful but, thats a load of crap. Ill see you all in hell i guess, except you perfect people who think you are angels. No offense, but reading what some of you type reminds me of that Iran leader who says the hallocaust didnt exist because basically you guys are saying being gay is worse than stealing and cheating, but yet its not a commandment.

who was the common slave? The blacks.

Back then? Hebrews! And who were the Hebrews? God's people. The Bible said nothing about Blacks.

Luke 15: 1-7 Parable of the Lost Sheep

Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him.
And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them.
And he spake this parable unto them, saying,
What man of you, having an hundred sheep, if he lose one of them, doth not leave the ninety and nine in the wilderness, and go after that which is lost, until he find it?
And when he hath found it, he layeth it on his shoulders, rejoicing.
And when he cometh home, he calleth together his friends and neighbours, saying unto them, Rejoice with me; for I have found my sheep which was lost.
I say unto you, that likewise joy shall be in heaven over one sinner that repenteth, more than over ninety and nine just persons, which need no repentance.

In this parable, Jesus teaches us that we are to search for the lost souls. The 99% of on the righteous path are fine and need no assistance. But abandoning the 1% is simply not an option. We need follow Christ's example by seeking out the sinners and help them come back to the flock. To do less means we are also lost. To do less is un-Christian.

You should remain friends with this person, but you should not condone his homosexual lifestyle.

RustyFairmount disagrees: Luke 15:1-7 says otherwise.

Yes, Jesus receives sinners who are repentant. We are called to separate from those who choose to stay in their sin.
1 Corinthians 6:15
Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a harlot? Certainly not!

Note in the parable, Jesus did not say that the shepherd should simply sit and wait for the lost sheep to find its way back. We are called to actively seek out the sinners. We are to put ourselves among them.

There is no such call to separate as you suggest. That is blasphemy. Separation is punishment. Punishment comes after judgement. And only God shall sit in judgement of us.

Seems we disagree on what Jesus said. I believe He is the Shepherd. I believe God calls sodomy a sin. I believe we are not to hang with those who choose to live in their sin. Not going to argue if you choose to believe differently.

Agreed. Your faith is strong, and that is a wonderful thing!

If hanging with sinners makes one more likely to sin themselves, then staying away is the best bet. But I choose to take God's word to the sinners, and pray that they will repent even if it is on their last day.

Good luck with all you do! And thanks for a great dialog.

I don't agree with turning our backs on people who are gay. I do not think there is a problem continuing friendship with someone who chooses to be gay. We all sin and will continue to until our dying day. Our friend's sin of homosexuality is no different than any of the sins we commit, even if he continues in his sin. Many of us continue in one particular sin/s until we have the strength, willingness and help from God to turn away from it. There is no difference! Turn our backs? No way! We should instead stick with him, talk to him about his continuous sin. There is absolutely nothing wrong with hanging out with the gay friend... having dinner, watching movies, recreation, conversation, etc. You go wrong when you condone his choice, when you chose to be with him when he seeks dates, etc. Because then you are partaking in his sin, in a sense, and that is wrong. But as long as you keep yourself separated from his acts of sin then there is no reason why you shouldn't be around him when he is simply being a friend. Same goes for any other sin. We are supposed to separate ourselves from any sins that are being committed. This doesn't mean we are supposed to turn away from the sinner. If that was the case all we would be looking at is people's backs, and we would all be hypocrites.

So, campem2, you continue your friendship with him. Do not turn your back on him. Talk to him, explain and show him Biblically why his choice is the wrong one and why he should turn away from his sin. Don't condone his choice and don't have any part in it. You can continue that friendship without having anything to do with it or him when he goes on dates and hangs out with his boyfriend. Just as you wouldn't hang out with your drug addict friend when they are searching for drugs, buying drugs and taking drugs, or even when they are high. Doesn't mean you can't be around them when they aren't. Matter of fact that's the best time because you can then talk to them, be an example for them.
How can your friend ever know the truth about his choice when all of those who know better turn away from him.

I don't agree with turning our backs on people who are gay. I do not think there is a problem continuing friendship with someone who chooses to be gay. We all sin and will continue to until our dying day. Our friend's sin of homosexuality is no different than any of the sins we commit, even if he continues in his sin. Many of us continue in one particular sin/s until we have the strength, willingness and help from God to turn away from it. There is no difference! Turn our backs? No way! We should instead stick with him, talk to him about his continuous sin. There is absolutely nothing wrong with hanging out with the gay friend...having dinner, watching movies, recreation, conversation, etc. You go wrong when you condone his choice, when you chose to be with him when he seeks dates, etc. Because then you are partaking in his sin, in a sense, and that is wrong. But as long as you keep yourself seperated from his acts of sin then there is no reason why you shouldn't be around him when he is simply being a friend. Same goes for any other sin. We are supposed to seperate ourselves from any sins that are being committed. This doesn't mean we are supposed to turn away from the sinner. If that was the case all we would be looking at is people's backs, and we would all be hypocrites.

So, campem2, you continue your friendship with him. Do not turn your back on him. Talk to him, explain and show him Biblically why his choice is the wrong one and why he should turn away from his sin. Don't condone his choice and don't have any part in it. You can continue that friendship without having anything to do with it or him when he goes on dates and hangs out with his boyfriend. Just as you wouldn't hang out with your drug addict friend when they are searching for drugs, buying drugs and taking drugs, or even when they are high. Doesn't mean you can't be around them when they aren't. Matter of fact that's the best time because you can then talk to them, be an example for them.
How can your friend ever know the truth about his choice when all of those who know better turn away from him.
WOW! That's the best advice I've gotten from anyone yet. Ive read all the posts up to this point and I must say that it all seems very sad, some seem to be against christians and others seem to be against "the world". Homosexuality is just like any other sin in gods eyes. And you can't take the bible out of context, to write off the whole bible just because it is old? That doesn't make sense. There is more factual evidence to support what is in the bible then any other writings. And saying to bible condones slavery? Again, don't take it out of context. Do you know who wrote that book of the bible? I understand, don't condone my friends choice of homosexuality. I understand what your saying, and I don't. He knows how I feel about it and I let him know how I feel when he brings it up. This is a heated topic. I just think that a lot of people are wrong. OK, so someone might say that there is living in sin(homosexuality) and a sinful act(stealing). Though that makes sense... our whole lives are living in sin! Just explain to me please how jesus witnessed to everyone, didn't turn his back on anyone and yes he even witnessed to gay people I'm sure, how can a christian strive to be like him yet say "oh, gay people are an exception to the rule"?? I just don't really get it. And by the way, just because its not directly in the ten commandments doesn't mean that its not a sin.

so anyway... thank you so much for your advice Moonlitwaves... it seemed very wise and helpful. And also thanks to everyone for posting.

I don't agree with turning our backs on people who are gay. I do not think there is a problem continuing friendship with someone who chooses to be gay. We all sin and will continue to until our dying day.
How can your friend ever know the truth about his choice when all of those who know better turn away from him.


On the surface that could sound like good advice, but consider it from God's view and Jesus' view (which actually is a perfect reflection of God's). While on earth, Jesus preached to all, including those involved in gross sins and what did he preach to them about (besides God's kingdom)? He spoke of REPENTANCE. Someone who desired to have God's approval on them would have to repent of their sinful ways. A person living and practicing sin would not be able to gain an approved standing in God's sight. This means that there would most definitely be a problem between an individual who chooses to practice sin and God, as that individual would not be repentant of the wrong they've committed and continue to commit by living that lifestyle. It makes no difference what kind of sin the person is in the practice of committing, the big deal is that it is still a PRACTICE of sin, a willful choice to continue to sin. Make no mistake, the Bible is very clear that homosexuality is sinful in God's sight. But, people who abandon such a course, recognizing that it is wrong and sinful, and have a true desire to be pleasing to God, are certainly welcome to approach him and rely upon him for the help that is needed in fighting such unclean urges and desires.

So when Moonlitwaves says "I do not think there is a problem continuing friendship with someone who chooses to be gay." - Such a statement is the viewpoint of an imperfect human. That viewpoint is not shared by our Creator. He wants those who are repentant and truly striving to serve him obediently. When someone "chooses to be gay", they're choosing to live a sinful life, with no thought of needing to be repentant of anything.

The Christian congregation was encouraged to remove people from their midst who willfully practiced gross sins, with no thought or desire to repent and turn around from their ways. This was for the spiritual protection of the entire congregation as a whole, as they would have no association with this one; all-the-while hoping that the individual would come to recognize the error of his ways and eventually repent so as to be welcomed back to the congregation and to a healthy relationship with God.

Certainly you can share with him God's viewpoint of homosexuality and then allow him to decide what he wants to do. The Bible states in 1 Corinthians 15:33 that "bad association spoils useful habits", which means that our associating with people who willfully choose to practice sin without any desire to change their ways, would be bad association, and such bad association could be detrimental to us and to our own relationship with God. There would DEFINITELY be something wrong with continuing to enjoy social association with this one who has made their choice to live a sinful life. By continuing to associate with this person, no matter how long you've been friends, you're giving them the idea that no matter whether they choose to repent of their clearly wrong lifestyle or not, you will excuse it for the sake of the friendship. God's standards are higher than that, so should ours be.

There are many people who have difficulty with turning away from one particular sin. Be it, drugs, alcohol, smoking, lustful thoughts, gambling addiction, sex addiction, habitual sins, etc. We do not have to and should not be around these people when they are actively sinning, but this doesn't mean we should dissassociate ourselves from them completely. It is easy to say we would turn away from a gay friend, but what if it was a family member who is having difficulty with one particular sin. Wouldn't you talk to them, try to show them the correct way, help them turn away from their sin, etc. More than likely, yes you would. Why should a friend be any different than your loved one. No matter the sin.
God has nothing to do with our sins, but He doesn't dissassociate Himself completely from us when we do. And even if He ever did, who are we to say when He reaches His limit.
How many times did the Spirit work with you before you dropped to your knees and asked for salvation? For some people it could take nearly a lifetime. God didn't turn away from them. He kept trying and trying to get the person/people to see and know truth.

There are many people who have difficulty with turning away from one particular sin. Be it, drugs, alcohol, smoking, lustful thoughts, gambling addiction, sex addiction, habitual sins, etc. We do not have to and should not be around these people when they are actively sinning, but this doesn't mean we should dissassociate ourselves from them completely. It is easy to say we would turn away from a gay friend, but what if it was a family member who is having difficulty with one particular sin. Wouldn't you talk to them, try to show them the correct way, help them turn away from their sin, etc. More than likely, yes you would. Why should a friend be any different than your loved one. No matter the sin.
God has nothing to do with our sins, but He doesn't dissassociate Himself completely from us when we do. And even if He ever did, who are we to say when He reaches His limit.
How many times did the Spirit work with you before you dropped to your knees and asked for salvation? For some people it could take nearly a lifetime. God didn't turn away from them. He kept trying and trying to get the person/people to see and know truth.

It also doesn't mean that you would continue the same amount of association with these individuals (or increase it) that you have had previously. If you put your friendship with this individual (whether a relative or not) above your obedience to God and your desire to maintain an approved relationship with God, then that would be an easy choice on your part and you'd say "well I'm not going to stop hanging around them if they continue this way", but if you put your relationship with God ahead of that friendship, then you'd be more apt to examine this friendship and see what harm it could cause you in the long run and how it may give the friend the idea that you really are condoning their choice. All sins are NOT the same... nowhere in the Bible is that idea ever given. That idea was started by people who want to try and minimize their wrongdoing by making it seem less serious than it actually is.

Again, the idea behind God's acceptance is our heartfelt repentance and striving to be obedient to Him and his laws & principles. Those who willfully practice sin, even after being shown that what they're doing is sinful, do not have God's blessing and/or backing upon them. It's that simple. And if we continue to extend close friendship to these ones who have made their choice, it only leads to a detrimental effect upon us. "Draw close to God and he will draw close to you, " said the Apostle James. Drawing close to God means making the choice to live according to his ways and his laws (as best as we imperfect beings can) and not willfully practicing sin or being around those who do... family or not.

...you'd be more apt to examine this friendship and see what harm it could cause you in the long run ...What harm can it do in the long run?

What harm can it do in the long run?

It will harm their own relationship with God, as God will see them continuing to pursue a friendship with someone who clearly wants just the opposite. If you put a rotten apple and a good apple in a bag together, the rotten one will be the one to affect the other, not vice versa. The same can be applied in this situation.

So sad that you equate the gay person to the rotten apple but to each their own I guess. I've hung around lots of gay people (in fact a gay couple is our daughter's godparents) and it hasn't affected me. But then again I may be the exception to the rule.

So sad that you equate the gay person to the rotten apple but to each their own I guess. I've hung around lots of gay people (in fact a gay couple is our daughter's godparents) and it hasn't affected me. But then again I may be the exception to the rule.


Even sadder that you don't see that homosexuality is sinful to God, a sin that people need to repent from in order to be clean in His sight. The fact that you can't see any affect on you doesn't mean there isn't one. Clearly there is one if you don't see the wrong in it.

Has your friend decided to turn from sin, or continue to live in it?

It will harm their own relationship with God, as God will see them continuing to pursue a friendship with someone who clearly wants just the opposite. If you put a rotten apple and a good apple in a bag together, the rotten one will be the one to affect the other, not vice versa. The same can be applied in this situation.


So let me get this straight. Im not sure if you are a guy or a girl but let me ask you this? Are you attracted to everyone of the opposite sex? No. So why would a gay guy be different. Are you scared one may hit on you or something. Gay people are attracted to every single one of the same sex.

And Gay people know that their friends may be straight, and they accept that. Now why can't you?

Its OK, ill pray you learn to love people for who they are, its OK I forgive you.

The Bible says that Jesus came to the sinners not the healthy. The Bible says Paul murdered Christians before he encountered God. If we turn away 'sinners' we live in our own man made bubble and not following the teaching to go into the world and witness. The church is becoming a social club that only tolerates others like them and throw away the caring for the *lesser than them* poor, the down and out and sinners.
The main problem I have with the churches going against gays is they preach against them like they are the personification of the definition of sin itself. Yet they do not treat a married man that cheats on his wife like an outcast. They will 'work with them' until they see 'the error of their way' but blackball the gay from the church. Sin is sin. Man in his reasoning has turned sexual sins into differing degrees of sin.

Sin is sin. Man in his reasoning has turned sexual sins into differing degrees of sin.

Wrong. If "sin is sin", then the Bible wouldn't specify that there is one particular sin that is unforgivable... that being, blasphemy against the holy spirit.

True tchal. I agree as far as joining the joining church thing but you can't turn them away from learning or turning them off from God's love by your actions either. There has to be a balance and a line.

tchalien agrees: I agree there is no degree of sin, but can you allow a practicing sinner to be a member of a congregation? Can a murderer that still murders join a church, thinking their murdering is okay? NO, Sin is sin.

But that is when it is up to the congregation to help him understand that his murdering is not okay. Kicking him out the doors helps nothing, but the churches pride. He needs to be there, he needs to hear the Word and be around Christians who can set an example for him and help him turn away from his sin. Of course we are talking known murdering so he will instead be in prison, but the point is no one should turn their backs on him. They should be visiting him in prison talking to him about God and His Word.

Continuing a friendship with someone who is gay does not support nor condone the friend's choice. If you and the friend can converse and hang out without the friend practicing his homosexual ways when he is with you then there is no reason why the friendship should be broken. Now if the gay friend insists on flirting and finding dates or double dating while you are with him then he has no respect for you and your beliefs and therefore is no friend in the first place. But if he respects your beliefs while you are together then continue the friendship.

It's funny how people pick what is worse than others. Allowing anything to control your body (temple) is a sin. Many people eat too much (allow food to control their appetites) yet many people still continue to have dinner with those very same relatives and friends who eat too much. How can you disassociate yourself from those who are gay, but continue to cherish the mother, father, aunt, uncle, friend who eats too much and not be a hypocrite? If your are going to kick out the homosexuals because they continue to practice that sinful way, then kick out the over eaters because they continue to allow food to control their bodies. What about the sins that you can't see? What about the people who continuously lust for worldly things (money) or lust over people. They keep it to themselves, but yet they continuously practice their lustful sins in their thoughts. Where are they? Sitting on the pew next to you.
Other than blasphemy I don't recall God ever ranking sin in degrees of greatest and least. Therefore I do not believe any sin is greater than the other. But even if there were, who are we to decide which sins God finds to be worse than others?

Kicking him out the doors helps nothing, but the churches pride.


Wrong. Kicking him out the door is for the good of the entire congregation, for your own good, and ultimately for theirs (assuming they will come to their senses and turn around from their sinful lifestyle). If removing them "helps nothing", then why was it that the Apostle Paul counseled the congregations to do that exact thing with willful sinners? I'm afraid I'd have to go along with the inspired counsel of the Apostle Paul on an issue like this rather than your opinion.

If you show him from the Bible why his way is wrong, that only needs to take one or two times. If you constantly bash him over the head with something when he's clearly not going to listen to you, that accomplishes nothing.

Continuing a close friendship with such an individual, who has CHOSEN to continue a lifestyle of gross sin absolutely DOES show your support and condoning of their continued sin. God disciplines those he loves, and included in that discipline would be casting an unrepentant sinner from the congregation, from among those who are determined to be obedient. If you break off that friendship until that person turns around, you show that your stand is for God's laws and principles and that you value that relationship more than one with a willful sinner. You would also be showing absolutely that you do not condone their chosen course of life.

It's interesting how your viewpoint differs so drastically from God's.

I suggest you actually pick up and read a book called the Bible. In it you can see very clearly how certain sinful acts are considered as extremely serious in God's sight, fornication being one of those things. Fornication includes any sexual activity that is unnatural and practiced outside the bonds of marriage... homosexuality, bisexuality, and so forth being included in that. 1 Corinthians 6:18 highlights the seriousness of fornication by specifically counseling us to "flee" from it. That particular sin is given special attention because of its seriousness in God's eyes. People today try to minimize sin by saying that all sin is the same, or why should one be condemned while people still engage in others.

You showed very clearly how all of this is being viewed when you said "therefore I do not believe...." - Shouldn't it be more important what God says, rather than what YOU believe?

It is entirely possible that the homosexual knows he is living a sinful life, yet he comes to church weekly to pray for help. To find a way to change. Provided he is not doing so in a disruptive way, any true Christian congregation must & will welcome him until his dying breath. Christ himself has show us this!

How are we to know that this man does not come to church every week with guilt on his heart and remorse in his soul? Can we read minds?? Just because a person hasn't yet stopped sinning, doesn't mean they won't some day find grace.

Seeking forgiveness is Christian. Denying the opportunity to receive forgiveness is not.

I just don't understand! There AREN'T degrees of sin. Someone who has gotten a divorce... thats directly talked about in the bible yet... theres people that have gotten divorces and still go to church! These people aren't shunned from the church. I don't understand everyone's thoughts that having sin means you can't go to church... where did that come from? I really can't type into words how I feel and what I'm thinking. I mean, some people have the right to not want to be friends with a gay person, but don't make it difficult or make it out to be a sin if someone else chooses to stay friends with the gay person. Turning your back is the last thing to do. Does getting kicked out of the church or "shunned" make you want to go back to church at all? NO. and so how would a gay person who is not allowed back to church allowed to repent or feel gods word tugging on their heart? When they're walking in the mall? Or hanging out with friends? Maybe while he's on a date with some other guy! Noones going to hear god in any of those situations! That's what church is a good place for... but if your kicked out, then I guess your just not allowed to feel the word of god. Maybe if a gay person were allowed in church then they might turn their life around! I recommend people read the book "fresh wind, fresh fire" about the brooklyn tabernacle and the wonderful acceptance they practice. They take gays, murderers and transexuals and see miraculous things happen in their lives. These people are given the chance to completely turn their life to the lord. Everyone is entitled to the word of the lord.

I just dont understand! There AREN'T degrees of sin. someone who has gotten a divorce...thats directly talked about in the bible yet...theres people that have gotten divorces and still go to church! these people arent shunned from the church. I dont understand everyones thoughts that having sin means you can't go to church...where did that come from? I really can't type into words how i feel and what im thinking. I mean, some people have the right to not want to be friends with a gay person, but dont make it difficult or make it out to be a sin if someone else chooses to stay friends with the gay person. turning your back is the last thing to do. does getting kicked out of the church or "shunned" make you want to go back to church at all? NO. and so how would a gay person who is not allowed back to church allowed to repent or feel gods word tugging on their heart? when theyre walking in the mall? or hanging out with friends? maybe while hes on a date with some other guy! noones going to hear god in any of those situations! thats what church is a good place for...but if your kicked out, then i guess your just not allowed to feel the word of god. maybe if a gay person were allowed in church then they might turn their life around! I recommend people read the book "fresh wind, fresh fire" about the brooklyn tabernacle and the wonderful acceptance they practice. they take gays, murderers and transexuals and see miraculous things happen in their lives. These people are given the chance to completely turn their life to the lord. Everyone is entitled to the word of the lord.


Oh please. There certainly are degrees of sin, otherwise there wouldn't be one particular one that's called "the unforgiveable sin" and there wouldn't be those that could keep people from inheriting the kingdom of God (according to Galatians). Divorce is a sin according to certain faiths... but it is NOT a sin according to the scriptures. While the Bible says that "God hates a divorcing", it also doesn't completely prohibit people from seeking one, but only on ONE ground alone: fornication. That's right, God may not like people to get divorced, but he does stipulate one permissible ground for someone getting divorced. If someone so chooses to divorce their mate because they cheated on them in some way, that is not considered a sin. Removing the person, or kicking them out of the congregation, is a practice that is scriptural. The first-century Christians were to remove from among them anyone who willfully practiced sin. That means that the person knows what they were doing was wrong and yet continued on that course. To remove the person is a form of discipline, yes, but with the purpose of keeping the rest of the congregation clean, and for hopefully causing the sinner to reconsider their course, as they see that they lose the association of their former friends because they adhere firmly to God's moral standards, and like God, do not accept that person's chosen course of life. If such a person does decide to reject their sinful life and turn around from it, they may attend the congregation services, but would have to do so on their own for a good length of time, time sufficient enough to show the congregation elders that they have changed and do desire to come back and live by God's standards. So the kicking the person out of the congregation doesn't have to be a permanent thing... it all comes down to the choice being made by the one practicing the gross sin.

I think your assessment of the situation is basically correct. We are all sinners so if your going to turn your back on a gay friend you need to turn your back on all of your friends. If one chooses not to be friends with this person because of his sexual orientation then that's their perrogative but it's not their perrogative to judge him. I would certainly hope that, if your friend is the christian he claims to be, that he wouldn't flaunt his sexuality and that he'd be totally abstinent as that is really the only way to abide by God's law, just like a heterosexual person has to be abstinent with all but their own spouse. Have you tried discussing your feelings with your youth pastor and your friends? Remember, it's not "feeing" gay that's wrong (in the absence of lusting), it's the actual sexual acts that are wrong. Just like heterosexual attraction in and of itself is not wrong (again, except for lusting, because when one lusts after another they've already committed the act in their heart if not literally), but engaging in heterosexual activity is wrong unless it's with your own spouse.

I don't believe we are to be around those who willfully choose to sin.
Had to spread it but I wanted to balance the reddies. I believe this statement to be correct. But, in keeping with the topic of the OP, it's also important to distinguish what acts are actually sinful. A person can have certain feelings for someone of the same sex that may be considered unnatural (and they are), but that in and of itself isn't sinful. To act on such feelings, either lustfully or in fact, that's where the line is crossed. As I also said previously, the same holds true even in the realm of heterosexuality. Just like when a young woman gets pregnant out of wedlock, having the baby isn't what's sinful, it's the act that led up to it that was the sin. Certain denominations (and I won't mention any names lol) will practically shun an unwed mother-to-be and all the focus is on the pregnancy, with no regard given to the act that led to it. There is nothing sinful at all about being pregnant, it's the act that brings it about. The unwed father isn't treated with the same kind of ostracism, which makes it very hypocritical. Similarly, a young woman who "does it" but doesn't get pregnant is totally overlooked. Clearly many people are quite confused about what is actually sinful and what isn't.

Campem as said above, talk to a minister or someone else besides us people who know nothing of the bible or the way god wants us to be, or else we would all have the same beliefs as christians.


This site only confuses you on topics like this because we usually get into debates instead of actually helping you. Email your pastor if you can. My church has a helping line for people who need help so yours may have one too.

I recommend to go off your personal opinions, that is why god let you think and gave you a heart. You know what's right and wrong, and in the end that's what it is going to be.

For me to ditch someone because of jut being gay, I think that is wrong. For trying to change someone, I believe that is wrong. The bible may not agree but, you do what you do. Your not encouraging him to be gay by being with him, your only being there for him when he is in need. That's what I would want, a friend who will be there with me till the end.

Most of these people don't have gay children, or family members so they still haven't been in your shoes, which is why you should not take what they say to heart.

Trust yourself more than just words from people you don't know.

Oh please. There certainly are degrees of sin, otherwise there wouldn't be one particular one that's called "the unforgiveable sin" and there wouldn't be those that could keep people from inheriting the kingdom of God (according to Galatians). Divorce is a sin according to certain faiths.......but it is NOT a sin according to the scriptures. While the Bible says that "God hates a divorcing", it also doesn't completely prohibit people from seeking one, but only on ONE ground alone: fornication. That's right, God may not like people to get divorced, but he does stipulate one permissible ground for someone getting divorced. If someone so chooses to divorce their mate because they cheated on them in some way, that is not considered a sin. Removing the person, or kicking them out of the congregation, is a practice that is scriptural. The first-century Christians were to remove from among them anyone who willfully practiced sin. That means that the person knows what they were doing was wrong and yet continued on that course. To remove the person is a form of discipline, yes, but with the purpose of keeping the rest of the congregation clean, and for hopefully causing the sinner to reconsider their course, as they see that they lose the association of their former friends because they adhere firmly to God's moral standards, and like God, do not accept that person's chosen course of life. If such a person does decide to reject their sinful life and turn around from it, they may attend the congregation services, but would have to do so on their own for a good length of time, time sufficient enough to show the congregation elders that they have changed and do desire to come back and live by God's standards. So the kicking the person out of the congregation doesn't have to be a permanent thing.....it all comes down to the choice being made by the one practicing the gross sin.
... have you read the new testament? Jesus came so that he could cover up our sins. Things have changed in the time of the old and new testament. I still think that there are not degrees of sin. The bible doesn't EVER say there are degrees of sin. It just says that blaspheming god is the worst... the others are sort of clumped together. But maybe you can show me some chart out there that shows me which sin is worse... so I know not to commit them. And that sounds like good advice sgt hardkore. Thanks.

......have you read the new testament? jesus came so that he could cover up our sins. things have changed in the time of the old and new testament. I still think that there are not degrees of sin. The bible doesnt EVER say there are degrees of sin. it just says that blaspheming god is the worst...the others are sort of clumped together. but maybe you can show me some chart out there that shows me which sin is worse...so i know not to commit them. and that sounds like good advice sgt hardkore. thanks.

If there's anyone out there more ignorant of the Bible than you are, please show me. The fact that there is one sin that's unforgivable... that mere fact alone... means there are degrees of sin. You can think all sins are the same, in fact many people do as an excuse to mitigate the things they've done or are doing, but in God's sight that's simply not true. An actual reading of the Bible would point that out.

silentrascal disagrees: Poor advice that's incredibly wrong.

What is wrong with my post, is this thread not just a debate of opinions?

And I was just giving my opinion. I was just explaining that from what I read on here, I get confused on a lot of topics and I was just letting the questioner know that. It's a lot easier to ask someone face to face.

If there's anyone out there more ignorant of the Bible than you are, please show me. The fact that there is one sin that's unforgivable......that mere fact alone.....means there are degrees of sin. You can think all sins are the same, in fact many people do as an excuse to mitigate the things they've done or are doing, but in God's sight that's simply not true. An actual reading of the Bible would point that out.
Oh. I'm sorry, I didn't know that you've actually ASKED god this question and he flat out told you the answer. I'm sorry but I grew up in church, my mom is a minister, my grandpa is a preacher... I don't know what to tell you. Ignorant of the bible? Ill admit I don't know everything, but I do know that no where in the bible does it say anything about degrees of sin. Again I ask... have you heard of the new testament? Things changed after jesus came around. Jesus was alive to save us from our sins. Meaning all that we do, all the wrong stuff that we all do, we just have to ask for forgiveness and we would receive it. Let me remind you of the ripping of the curtain at the temples. That ripping of the curtain represented the freedom we now have to freely ask for forgiveness. We don't have to admit our sins to anyone else and make sacrifices, we just have to ask god. Now, please give me scripture reference of where I can find the degrees of sin. I don't deny that there is ONE "unforgivable sin" but that's it... ONE. Show me where in the bible it says that murder is worse then adultery. Let me save you some trouble... it doesn't say that. Just because in our minds we give sins different degrees doesn't mean that god sees it that way.

oh. im sorry, i didnt know that youve actually ASKED god this question and he flat out told you the answer. I'm sorry but i grew up in church, my mom is a minister, my grandpa is a preacher....i dont know what to tell you. ignorant of the bible? ill admit i dont know everything, but i do know that no where in the bible does it say anything about degrees of sin. again i ask...have you heard of the new testament? things changed after jesus came around. jesus was alive to save us from our sins. meaning all that we do, all the wrong stuff that we all do, we just have to ask for forgiveness and we would receive it. let me remind you of the ripping of the curtain at the temples. that ripping of the curtain represented the freedom we now have to freely ask for forgiveness. we dont have to admit our sins to anyone else and make sacrifices, we just have to ask god. now, please give me scripture reference of where i can find the degrees of sin. I dont deny that there is ONE "unforgivable sin" but thats it...ONE. show me where in the bible it says that murder is worse then adultery. let me save you some trouble...it doesnt say that. just because in our minds we give sins different degrees doesnt mean that god sees it that way.

(SIGH)... again, the ignorance is just astounding, it really is. The fact alone that a particular sin is considered the most serious TELLS YOU RIGHT THERE THAT THERE ARE DEGREES OF SIN. It couldn't be more straightforward if the point came and punched you in the face. What part of that just isn't sinking in? Read the gospels again about what Jesus preached... not only did he preach about God's kingdom, he preached to people of all kinds of the need to REPENT.

Regarding the tearing of the temple curtain, at the moment Jesus dies, the huge curtain that divides the Holy from the Most Holy in God's temple is torn in two, from top to bottom. Apparently this beautifully ornamented curtain is some 60 feet [18 m] high and very heavy! The astonishing miracle not only manifests God's wrath against the killers of His Son but signifies that the way into the Most Holy, heaven itself, is now made possible by Jesus' death. I suggest you try reading the Old Testament, specially the Law of Moses... some things considered as sins there merited the death penalty while others did not. Now read through there and explain how all of those sins would be considered the same. You won't be able to.

Just because you feel all sins are the same doesn't mean God does. And the Bible shows that he doesn't. Let's consider how we know that:

Although sin is sin, and in any case could justly make the guilty one worthy of sin's “wages,” death, the Scriptures show that God views mankind's wrongdoing as varying in degrees of gravity. Thus, the men of Sodom were “gross sinners against (God),” and their sin was “very heavy.” (Ge 13:13; 18:20; compare 2Ti 3:6, 7.) The Israelites' making a golden calf was also called “a great sin” (Ex 32:30, 31), and Jeroboam's calf worship similarly caused those of the northern kingdom “to sin with a great sin.” (2Ki 17:16, 21) Judah's sin became “like that of Sodom,” making the kingdom of Judah abhorrent in God's eyes. (Isa 1:4, 10; 3:9; La 1:8; 4:6) Such a course of disregard for God's will can make even one's very prayer become a sin. (Ps 109:7, 8, 14) Since sin is an affront to God's own person, he is not indifferent to it; as its gravity increases, his indignation and wrath are understandably increased. (Ro 1:18; De 29:22-28; Job 42:7; Ps 21:8, 9) His wrath, however, is not solely due to the involvement of his own person but is likewise stirred by the injury and injustice done to humans and particularly to his faithful servants.—Isa 10:1-4; Mal 2:13-16; 2Th 1:6-10.

James 2:10 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

10For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

This indicates that God does not see sin in degrees of bad or horrible. To him a lie is destructive to truth and harmony amongst people. IN His eyes, killing some one is just as evil as lying. Or Molesting a child.
It is only humans who think evil can be graded from one to ten.
To God, sin IS sin.
Sin is rebellion against that which is good. And under enough stress the person who is willing to steal for their own personal gain would resort to killing if they felt the need would arise. It is a state of mind not a state of action.

Sin is the attitude of our heart. It is the iniquity we are born into. It is rebellion against the LORD.
James 2:10 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)

10For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it.

This indicates that God does not see sin in degrees of bad or horrible. To him a lie is destructive to truth and harmony amongst people. IN His eyes, killing some one is just as evil as lieing. or Molesting a child.
It is only humans who think evil can be graded from one to ten.
To God, sin IS sin.
Sin is rebellion against that which is good. And under enough stress the person who is willing to steal for their own personal gain would resort to killing if they felt the need would arise. It is a state of mind not a state of action.

Romans 3:23
For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
Romans 3:22-24 (in Context) Romans 3 (Whole Chapter)

(SIGH)......again, the ignorance is just astounding, it really is. The fact alone that a particular sin is considered the most serious TELLS YOU RIGHT THERE THAT THERE ARE DEGREES OF SIN. It couldn't be more straightforward if the point came and punched you in the face. What part of that just isn't sinking in? Read the gospels again about what Jesus preached.....not only did he preach about God's kingdom, he preached to people of all kinds of the need to REPENT.

Regarding the tearing of the temple curtain, at the moment Jesus dies, the huge curtain that divides the Holy from the Most Holy in God's temple is torn in two, from top to bottom. Apparently this beautifully ornamented curtain is some 60 feet [18 m] high and very heavy! The astonishing miracle not only manifests God's wrath against the killers of His Son but signifies that the way into the Most Holy, heaven itself, is now made possible by Jesus' death. I suggest you try reading the Old Testament, specially the Law of Moses......some things considered as sins there merited the death penalty while others did not. Now read through there and explain how all of those sins would be considered the same. You won't be able to.

Just because you feel all sins are the same doesn't mean God does. And the Bible shows that he doesn't. Let's consider how we know that:

Although sin is sin, and in any case could justly make the guilty one worthy of sin's “wages,” death, the Scriptures show that God views mankind's wrongdoing as varying in degrees of gravity. Thus, the men of Sodom were “gross sinners against (God),” and their sin was “very heavy.” (Ge 13:13; 18:20; compare 2Ti 3:6, 7.) The Israelites' making a golden calf was also called “a great sin” (Ex 32:30, 31), and Jeroboam's calf worship similarly caused those of the northern kingdom “to sin with a great sin.” (2Ki 17:16, 21) Judah's sin became “like that of Sodom,” making the kingdom of Judah abhorrent in God's eyes. (Isa 1:4, 10; 3:9; La 1:8; 4:6) Such a course of disregard for God's will can make even one's very prayer become a sin. (Ps 109:7, 8, 14) Since sin is an affront to God's own person, he is not indifferent to it; as its gravity increases, his indignation and wrath are understandably increased. (Ro 1:18; De 29:22-28; Job 42:7; Ps 21:8, 9) His wrath, however, is not solely due to the involvement of his own person but is likewise stirred by the injury and injustice done to humans and particularly to his faithful servants.—Isa 10:1-4; Mal 2:13-16; 2Th 1:6-10.
... your right,god does view sins in degrees... 2 DEGREES! First degree: don't blaspheme god. Second degree: every other sin.

.....your right,god does view sins in degrees....2 DEGREES! first degree: dont blaspheme god. Second degree: every other sin.


Nice try, but still... wrong.

OK OK. Say there is degrees of sin. Who to say that lying is worse then stealing or homosexuality worse then lustfulness? The bible doesn't point that out at all. So would you mind giving me a list from the worst to the least worst?

Campen,

Is it possible that the youth pastor is just, well, wrong? Consider that in the lineage of churches, the original church is the Catholic church. And over the centuries, the leadership of that church has made decisions that people strongly disagreed with. So those believers ran out and formed a wonderful variety of protestant churches that exist today.

That said, maybe the church you are currently attending is one that does not want your friend, or you for that matter. Big deal! Pray for them. Pray that the church leadership and those others who are jumping on the "shun the gay" bandwagon will someday realize that what they're doing is wrong.

You can choose to stay in church with these people who aren't leading lives of forgiveness as Christ taught us. Or you can choose to go to a different church where the congregation does believe in forgiveness, and spiritual growth. Sure, you might also be "shunned," but remember Matthew 5:10. Blessed are those who are persecuted for justice' sake: For theirs is the kingdom of Heaven.

In response to silentrascal's comment below: It is not found in the bible. The Catholic Church traces it's leadership back to St. Peter. Historical facts do not require divine inspiration to be true.

Campen,

Is it possible that the youth pastor is just, well, wrong? Consider that in the lineage of churches, the original church is the Catholic church. And over the centuries, the leadership of that church has made decisions that people strongly disagreed with. So those believers ran out and formed a wonderful variety of protestant churches that exist today.

That said, maybe the church you are currently attending is one that does not want your friend, or you for that matter. Big deal! Pray for them. Pray that the church leadership and those others who are jumping on the "shun the gay" bandwagon will someday realize that what they're doing is wrong.

You can choose to stay in church with these people who aren't leading lives of forgiveness as Christ taught us. Or you can choose to go to a different church where the congregation does believe in forgiveness, and spiritual growth. Sure, you might also be "shunned," but remember Matthew 5:10. Blessed are those who are persecuted for justice' sake: For theirs is the kingdom of Heaven.

The original church is NOT the Catholic church, contrary to errant opinion. Catholicism is part of the great apostasy that developed within the first century Christian congregation. Note the viewpoint of not shunning willful, unrepentant sinners... that opinion is completely contrary to what the Apostle Paul directed the congregations to do in 1 Corinthians 5:13. The modern viewpoint is to not remove such ones from the congregation. God's viewpoint, which does not change, is reflected in the inspired words of Paul in that aforementioned scripture in which such a person was to be removed fron the congregation. Pray that those who water down Bible morality by preaching tolerance of unrepentant wrongdoers, such as homosexuals, will turn around and start abiding by God's standards instead of modern society's.

I am so glad I am not part of an institution that turns their backs on anyone who is not like them. Thank you for reminding me.

silentrascal:

I think you are doctrinally correct.

Some will say the "sick" will seek a cure only when they realize they are sick and could get worse.

The problem with sin is that people either deny it or worse approve or condone it, and they never realize they are sick in need of a cure, so to speak.

Now, my conflict is that when they are convicted of their sin and seek a cure / salvation, will they remember a loving God as represented by the "church, " because we should stand out and be known for our Love, or will they run from God because the "church" as they see it is does not have the spirit of love?

But in 1 cor 13, love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth.

I can see both points on this thread.





Grace and Peace

Stick by your friend- everyone on this post can claim that the Bible says this or that and it can always be twisted to cater to someone's point of view. The bottom line, inherently as a human being you know what's right and you know what's wrong. To ostracize a person based on their sexual orientation is wrong. I am not saying that you should not believe in the word of the Bible but it has been re-written, re-worded, and some scripture has been left out. For someone to claim that they can cheat on their wife or a priest can molest a child and they can be forgiven but someone who is gay is just so horrible that you should not even speak to them is crazy. People can memorize the Bible, become a self proclaimed expert but until they are able to follow all of the Commandments and the so called "dos and donts" that the Bible teaches then they should concentrate on helping themselves instead of judging everyone else.

I am so glad I am not part of an institution that turns their backs on anyone who is not like them. Thank you for reminding me.


And I'm so glad I'm not part of the group with no morals and an "anything is acceptable" kind of mentality.

And I'm so glad I'm not part of the group with no morals and an "anything is acceptable" kind of mentality.What makes you think I have no morals? The golden rule is a good way to live one's life don't you think?

If I remember that story correctly, weren't the pharisees trying to trick Jesus, asking him which commandment was most important? Weren't they trying to trip him up on little printed details written down in sacred scripture. It occurs to me that people who quote scripture as readily as sports statistics in order to shun people from their congregation are not unlike the pharisees.

It's a trick. You can obey the out-of-context quotes, abandon your friend, and let him die a sinner. Or you can follow the example that Jesus set for us, and try to help lead him to salvation.

You don't need a quote in the bible to demonstrate outstanding morals.

Good luck. I'm leaving this conversation because the narrow mindedness and personal attacks are just too frustrating. Pitiful.