"Americans are still feeling good about a number of things in their lives, but not about the government's leadership," Zogby said. "They are giving up on this government."

"There is a real question among Americans now about how relevant this government is to them," pollster John Zogby said. "They tell us they want action on health care, education, the war and immigration, but they don't believe they are going to get it."

Is it just doldrums over the war and the mid-east situation or what?


Voters unhappy with Bush and Congress | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN1624620720071017?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&rpc=22&sp=true)

We are disappointed in our "leadership". And he has given us reason to be. Hence the quotes.

From an outside point looking in I see a nation living in fear. I see it here in the posters on the political board. Its sad. It really is. Where I live we don't live in that fear. Perhaps it is because we haven't been subject to the terrorists attacks the US has. Obviously 9/11 changed things significantly. But I see a government who is playing on that. Milking it for everything it can to control the fear in its citizens to justify its means and policies.

Ill be shot down for these comments by most here. But it will be a perfect example for you to witness the fear I am talking about!

I think that some people are in fear and some simply are disappointed.

From an outside point looking in i see a nation living in fear. I see it here in the posters on the political board. Its sad. It really is. Where i live we dont live in that fear. Perhaps it is because we havent been subject to the terrorists attacks the US has. Obviously 9/11 changed things significantly. But i see a government who is playing on that. Milking it for everything it can to control the fear in its citizens to justify its means and policies.

Ill be shot down for these comments by most here. But it will be a perfect example for you to witness the fear i am talking about!


This was in the news today: Bush Warns of World War III, Laughs at Israel's Bombing of Syria
This is what one reporter had to say.
“Hubris and Fearmongering. Two words that best describe whatever is left of the Bush legacy. David Shuster reports on Bush's latest belligerent press conference. His contempt for the press is really unprecedented.

“I won't disagree with you; however the big question is, is it justified? An attack on Iran by the U.S. would be the more likely cause of WWIII.

“Another response: Iranians would inevitably unite, just the same as U.S. citizens would unite if a foreign government had George W. Bush assassinated. A unified Iran would march into Iraq and give a strained U.S. military a run for its money, which would in turn make a military draft in America a necessary certainty.

”At that point, Turkey -- keeper of the U.S.'s supply lines -- would make a full-scale incursion into Kurdish northern Iraq, as the U.S. preoccupied with Iran, would be in no position to object. Israel would hit at Syria and Iran. Egypt and Jordan would declare themselves neutral. Saudi Arabia will face serious internal conflicts, which for the time being would preclude it from entering war on any side. Lebanon would enter into civil war, as Hamas makes its move.

”NATO would fracture, as some member countries would refuse to involve themselves in a conflict which will inevitably reach them, anyway. Russia will seek to annex the more prosperous of its former states. China might find the occasion an opportune one to retake Taiwan, at which point the U.S. declares war on China. Pakistan falls into chaos, as Musharraf finds his powerful Washington allies too busy to lend a hand. And India takes advantage of that fact by seizing Kashmir with overwhelming military force.”

“The Chinese, already at war with the U.S. would be free to go all out, and would decide to avenge the brutal losses inflicted by the Japanese in previous wars. North Korea would invade South Korea. Recognizing chaos when they see it, the U.S. would invade Cuba and move to assassinate Venezuela's president, Chavez.

The Sudanese would finish the genocide in Darfur. Mexico would declare itself neutral, along with Sweden, Germany, South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, Brazil, Singapore, Iceland, etc... But even that won't save them. Somewhere along the line, someone's going to drop a nuclear bomb and one or more countries are going to overreact, and the world will go KABOOM.”
Digg - VIDEO: Bush Warns of World War III, Laughs at Israel’s Bombing of Syria (http://digg.com/politics/VIDEO_Bush_Warns_of_World_War_III_Laughs_at_Israel _s_Bombing_of_Syria)

Here is an interesting piece I discovered:

“We believe that an independent South, or Hawaii, Alaska, or Vermont would be better able to serve the interest of everybody, regardless of race or ethnicity,” said Michael Hill of Killen, Ala. president of the League of the South.
The Middlebury Institute and the League of the South are hosting a two-day Secessionist Convention that began yesterday in Chattanooga.
They expect to attract supporters from California, Alaska and Hawaii, inviting anyone who wants to dissolve the Union so states can save themselves from an overbearing federal government.
…
The Middlebury Institute, based in Cold Spring, N.Y. was started in 2005. Its followers, disillusioned by the Iraq war and federal imperialism, share the idea of states becoming independent republics. They contend their movement is growing.
If and when these movements vote for independence and take action to secede — and the Union responds militarily to keep them from seceding — Americans shouldn't be surprised when China and Russia threaten to bomb the United States in defense of the Vermonters, using the U.S.-set precedent of Kosovo.


Political Mavens » To U.S. Secessionists: Use the U.S.-set Kosovo Precedent (http://politicalmavens.com/index.php/2007/10/18/to-us-secessionists-use-the-us-set-kosovo-precedent/)

Bush goes on television yesterday and grins and smiles as he throws out the World War III card, as if Americans and everyone in the world isn't wise to our Fascist administration's tactic of fearmongering and more fear. Everyone waits for his newest lie and the latest fear he is promoting. By the way, on Hardball, the comment was kicked around that Bush was "losing it"...

Incidentally, he had a glow about him; a glow like a guy high on something... alcohol, pills... he was GLOWING. I saw that look many, many times on my father when he was drunk. We know the drunken glow, don't we folks.

Bottom line... Americans are sick of the War... sick of Republican-Fascist lies and hypocrisy.

"Americans are still feeling good about a number of things in their lives, but not about the government's leadership," Zogby said. "They are giving up on this government."

"There is a real question among Americans now about how relevant this government is to them," pollster John Zogby said. "They tell us they want action on health care, education, the war and immigration, but they don't believe they are going to get it."

Is it just doldrums over the war and the mid-east situation or what?


Voters unhappy with Bush and Congress | Reuters (http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSN1624620720071017?feedType=RSS&feedName=topNews&rpc=22&sp=true)



"Bleak" is a strong word, but I'll share my thoughts on the subjects.


Health care? Health care can be reformed. If not, we will just have more empty promises. Not so bleak as it is consistently the same.


Education? Well where I live in Nevada it is lacking. I'd say much room needed for improvement. We need more teachers and they need to be paid better. But lets face it. So many under-qualified sperm donors and egg carriers masquerading as parents that just send their kids to school, not because they care about their education, but because they need them out of the house while they sit around on welfare, make more babies, with their lazy fat useless selves.

War? I'd much rather have the war in their backyard than mine. If it was in mine that would be bleak. Because it is not... I'm happy, not feeling bleak. Would I'd gone about this different than our President, you betcha. More parking lots.

Immigration? Well what will change that has not changed? Would it be bleak if much of Latin America didn't come here illegally, especially Mexico. They will continue to come illegally under, over, and around in any fences. Again it won't be bleak as much as disappointing if our government extends already illegals amnesty of sorts. Please and we are already conditioned for this. Nothing new.


OK! Personally one thing that I've mentioned before is that I do think the chance of receiving full social security payments twenty years from now is fairly uncertain. I'm not thrilled with 401k either.


Now where near the US is it less bleak? Certainly not in Canada. Imagine being ramrodded into paying for health care for undeserving lazy mooches who sit on the street corner day after day, chugging down a 40oz Mickeys before noon. Expensive medical treatment paid for by wealthy, upstanding members of society. Lazy people looking for freebies. We already have that in the US. We call it welfare. At least we are trying to reform ours to no avail. Oh! But I guess a "bleak" mood US citizen could head north for a draft dodger reunion. Sit around mumble in French and freeze during the winter. No thanks.


How about Mexico? Are you kidding me. Only thing more bleak than Canada is Mexico. Trade in your cognac for tequila. Please when those US dollars turned into pesos eventually run out ,they'd experience "bleak." The average American could maintain a dreamy lifestyle for only so long. Want to be like the natives? The younger generations of spoiled US citizens would run back to Uncle Sam as soon as they couldn't afford the manual labor.




Bobby

What is there to be bleak about. We are killing people are we not? Isn't that what we are susposed to be doing? I mean, isn't that what we have always done. In the name of GOD? For Christ sake. Cheer up man! BTW, are one of those Goth people?

What is there to be bleak about. We are killing people are we not? Isn't that what we are susposed to be doing? I mean, isn't that what we have always done. In the name of GOD? For Christ sake. Cheer up man! BTW, are one of those Goth people?


There's been more non-Christians having murdered throughout history than Christian. I'm not a Christian, nor do I agree with Bush for all the semantics that many politicians use with the rah rah speeches. But I'd rather they not become like pacifists that sat around in their unbelief after those twin towers collapsed, blind to the fact.




Bobby

I call it complacency. Ever since abortion was legal and other things I have heard many Americans say or at least have the attitude "as long as it doesn't affect me..."
AS long as Americans can go to work, come home, be a couch potato with a beer watching the brain dead TV and run to Wal Mart. They don't really care... until they lose their job and can't make their credit card payment!

I call it complacency. Ever since abortion was legal and other things I have heard many Americans say or at least have the attitude "as long as it doesn't affect me..."
AS long as Americans can go to work, come home, be a couch potato with a beer watching the brain dead TV and run to Wal Mart. They don't really care....until they lose their job and can't make their credit card payment!

Is that what it has come to? I hadn't noticed, I was on the couch with a beer surfing through 500 channels but nothing is on.

But seriously folks,

YouTube - Ron Paul On Aaron Russos' America Freedom To Fascism (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBOIZmuP1P8)

America: Freedom to Fascism - Director's Authorized Version (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1656880303867390173)

DC

Zogby's opinion appears to be that Americans have a low opinion of their leaders. Otherwise I see no evidence of bleakness in his comments and indeed you quote him saying that Americans are still feeling good about a number of things in their lives.

Other polls concure

Harris Interactive | The Harris Poll - Americans Satisfied With the Lives They Lead (http://www.harrisinteractive.com/harris_poll/index.asp?PID=796)

I'm an optimist . The only thing I see clouding the future is the prospect of Evita winning the Presidency lol . This is what I suggest for the gloomy . Turn off the tube and take a hike this weekend weather permitting . It always works for me. Then when you focus on narrow issues like the state of politics be more proactive .Write letters to your representatives . Attend local board meetings .From a local political stand point you'll see how quickly they begin to pay attention to you . You can get a lot done.

People should look at things through the prism of history. Are things worse now than in 1932 ? Back then I imaging most Americans lost faith in everything about America. But we recovered because we have the unique ability to change our circumstances when we are unhappy . True freedom allows that. When things got gloomy enough we elected in change. The same happened in 1980 .Remember malaise ? Turns out that was an illusion .All we needed were leaders to point out what is good about us.

I say to Americans don't give up. Victory is assured in the war against Islamo-fascsim .Their philosophy has had it's experiment and everywhere they are in retreat because the people they tried to subject wouldn't accept their enslavement . Pakistan has recently said they will chase the jihadists out of Waziristan .Asia Times Online :: South Asia news - Pakistan plans all-out war on militants (http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/IJ19Df01.html) They will have no more safe sanctuary . They are being chased out of Iraq ;they have been chased out of Afghanistan . They were chased out of Somalia this year. No where to run ! Iran will be dealt with and I think it will happen without WWIII . All Bush was saying is that if we ease the pressure off the Mahdi-hatter then WWIII is more likely . He is correct.Nicolas Sarkozy sees it. So do Angela Merkel, Tony Blair and Gordon Brown. The Israelis have been warning about it for years. The Saudis are scared, along with the whole Arab world. Vladimir Putin is currently making nice with Ahmamadjihad, but he can't really want nuke-happy zealots on his southern border. They have no love for Russian infidels. Iran needs to be contained until regime change occures.

Incidentally, he had a glow about him; a glow like a guy high on something... alcohol, pills... he was GLOWING. I saw that look many, many times on my father when he was drunk. We know the drunken glow, don't we folks.

I don't know.. Maybe I'll ask Randi Rhodes what it's like to be fall down drunk.
National Ledger - Was Randi Rhodes Drunk and Belligerent Before Mystery Fall? (http://www.nationalledger.com/artman/publish/article_272616683.shtml)

Good advice, Tom…If you're not happy with your life…Do something other than whine.

Unfortunately the mid-east power keg is going to blow and the American citizen is helpless to do anything but prepare themselves mentally, and adjust their financial obligations for a real slowdown in the economy. I've been an optimist all my life, however, that's a young mans position, and it ought to be. I'm a pessimist now and that comes with years of experience…I predict rationing of many goods, at least for the average citizen and a booming black market…The up side is the potential for the American community to pull itself together.

Yeah but we have always lived under the cloud. My father constructed a bomb shelter for us in the early 1960s . We were instructed on procedures how to orderly go to bomb shelter areas in our elementary schools. I contend that the threat was much greater to us in 1963 than anything we are experiencing today .

And we had it good compared to how our parents grew up.. They lived their early childhood during the depression ;their teen years during WWII . Their adult lives under the threat of nuclear annihilation . Their peek earning years during the hard economic times of the 1970s . Still they plowed on and raised their families at a time when all their values were being questioned ;even by their own children.

I don't even have to get into the lives that my wife's parents and great parents had . Her mom's family was chased all over France one step ahead of the jackboots while her fathers childhood was spent under round the clock blitzes .

Part of our problem if there indeed is this doom and gloom is inflated expectations of how easy life should be.

Yeah but we have always lived under the cloud. My father constructed a bomb shelter for us in the early 1960s . We were instructed on procedures how to orderly go to bomb shelter areas in our elementary schools. I contend that the threat was much greater to us in 1963 than anything we are experiencing today .

And we had it good compared to how our parents grew up .. They lived their early childhood during the depression ;their teen years during WWII . Their adult lives under the threat of nuclear annihilation . Their peek earning years during the hard economic times of the 1970s . Still they plowed on and raised their families at a time when all their values were being questioned ;even by their own children.

I don't even have to get into the lives that my wife's parents and great parents had . Her mom's family was chased all over France one step ahead of the jackboots while her fathers childhood was spent under round the clock blitzes .

Part of our problem if there indeed is this doom and gloom is inflated expectations of how easy life should be.
I remember the bomb shelter day's well…few people fell for it. In the town where I lived there were 4…yep, a grand total of 4 in the entire town. It was a marketing sham. I don't recall fear mongering going on then and there was no real threat in 1963. And the truth of the matter was, there was not really anything to fear except the arms race. Fear of Socialism and Communism drove the right crazy and I have yet to understand why. If Democracy cannot stand toe to toe with other forms of government then let it fall to compatition just as everything in a free market.

You don't have to remind me what it was like in those rough years…I was born in an adobe house with dirt floors during that war. I didn't experience any hard times during the 1970s, in fact my wife didn't work she was home raising 4 children in a home we were buying.

DC, I didn't realize there was a "bleak" mood in America, but I'll admit a good deal of contempt for our leadership - and as Zogby points out the mood toward our government is directed at both the President and Congress.

Your follow-up from Shuster has it all wrong, too. Shuster says "His contempt for the press is really unprecedented," which maybe true, but I'm sure the media's contempt for the President has something to do with that. Crooksandliars is a perfect example of that, claiming Bush "Laughs at Israel’s Bombing of Syria." Sorry, but I didn't see that in the video. I saw a reporter ask about the incident and the President chuckled after trying 9 times to get him to understand he wasn't going to comment. The exchange (http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/10/20071017.html):


Q There's a report today from Israel Army Radio indicating that the Syrians have confirmed that the Israelis struck a nuclear site in their country. You wouldn't comment on that before, and I'm wondering if now, on the general question, you think it's appropriate for Israel to take such action if it feels that there is mortal danger being posed to the state?

THE PRESIDENT: David, my position hadn't changed. You can ask me another question.

Q Can I ask you whether -- did you support Israel's strike in 1981 on the Iraqi reactor outside Baghdad?

THE PRESIDENT: You know, Dave, I don't remember what I was doing in 1980 -- let's see, I was living in Midland, Texas; I don't remember my reaction that far back.

Q Well, but as you look at it as President now --

THE PRESIDENT: -- private citizen back there in 1981 in Midland, Texas, trying to make a living for my family and --

Q But you're a careful -- someone who studies history --

THE PRESIDENT: Student of history? I do, yes. No, I don't remember my reaction, to be frank with you.

Q But I'm asking you now, as you look back at it, do you think it was the right action for Israel to take?

THE PRESIDENT: David, I'm not going to comment on the subject that you're trying to get me to comment on.

Q Why won't you? But isn't it a fair question to say, is it -- given all the talk about Iran and the potential threat, whether it would be appropriate for Israel to act --

THE PRESIDENT: Hey, Dave -- Dave --

Q -- in self-defense --

THE PRESIDENT: I understand --

Q -- if Iran were to --

THE PRESIDENT: -- I understand where you're trying to take --

Q -- develop nuclear weapons?

THE PRESIDENT: I understand where you're trying to take. It's a clever ruse to get me to comment on it, but I'm not going to. Thank you.

Q Well, I'm just wondering why you think it's not appropriate to make that judgment, when it's a -- it is a real-world scenario, as we know, since they apparently took this action against Syria --

THE PRESIDENT: Dave. Welcome back. (Laughter.)

That was quite an exchange of Dave trying to get Bush to comment on something he wasn't going to comment on, and the laughter was directed at Dave, not Israel's bombing of Syria. It seems Crooksandliars is an appropriate name for this blog.

That's the kind of thing I'm sick of, and unless someone does the work and finds out for themselves what's going on it's no surprise there is somewhat of a sour mood in America. You won't find any encouragement in the media.

As for being in fear, yeah, but for different reasons. I'm closer to fearing the left's hatred for Bush and all things conservative could lead to our destruction. I certainly don't live in fear of terrorism - I've spent most of my life 20 miles from a nuclear weapons facility - we were ground zero in the cold war days. I'm a lot more comfortable with us fighting terrorists overseas.

DC my father was a rational man and a Navy Intel officer . 1963 was indeed a crisis and we were on the brink . One false step would 've set the spark off. Ironically Turkey was front and center back then also.

David Schuster is a completely discredited hack except as an Inspector Clouseau character for Chris Mathews.

DC, I didn't realize there was a "bleak" mood in America, but I'll admit a good deal of contempt for our leadership - and as Zogby points out the mood toward our government is directed at both the President and Congress.

Your followup from Shuster has it all wrong, too. Shuster says "His contempt for the press is really unprecedented," which maybe true, but I'm sure the media's contempt for the President has something to do with that. Crooksandliars is a perfect example of that, claiming Bush "Laughs at Israel’s Bombing of Syria." Sorry, but I didn't see that in the video. I saw a reporter ask about the incident and the President chuckled after trying 9 times to get him to understand he wasn't going to comment. The exchange (http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/10/20071017.html):



That was quite an exchange of Dave trying to get Bush to comment on something he wasn't going to comment on, and the laughter was directed at Dave, not Israel's bombing of Syria. It seems Crooksandliars is an appropriate name for this blog.

That's the kind of thing I'm sick of, and unless someone does the work and finds out for themselves what's going on it's no surprise there is somewhat of a sour mood in America. You won't find any encouragement in the media.

As for being in fear, yeah, but for different reasons. I'm closer to fearing the left's hatred for Bush and all things conservative could lead to our destruction. I certainly don't live in fear of terrorism - I've spent most of my life 20 miles from a nuclear weapons facility - we were ground zero in the cold war days. I'm a lot more comfortable with us fighting terrorists overseas.
Yeah, I read through the bias and hype as well as you. :)

However I do believe Zogby is spot on:

The…’The bleak mood in America’ was from Zogby as was "They are giving up on this government." and "They tell us they want action on health care, education, the war and immigration, but they don't believe they are going to get it."

New Hampshire RFID Study Commission approves chipping of children and corpses‏
From: [email protected] on behalf of RTR Press Release ([email protected])
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE October 19th, 2007
From Samuel Anthony Ettaro, RTR Media
Restore The Republic - Home (http://www.restoretherepublic.com)


NEW HAMPSHIRE RFID STUDY COMMISSION SEES CHIPPING KIDS AND CORPSES AS ACCEPTABLE
Dr. Katherine Albrecht argued for implant restrictions, but was overridden by industry.

CONCORD, NH: The NEW HAMPSHIRE RFID STUDY COMMISSION yesterday voted in support of language that would allow guardians and parents to implant RFID microchips into children. The Study Commission was created when the state Senate killed a bill which would have required labeling on all products containing RFID-tagged products in NH and comprises lawmakers, industry and retail representatives, as well as members of the public and state law enforcement officials.

Dr. Katherine Albrecht, who will be speaking on RFID at the Hope for America Conference in Tempe, AZ on December 8th [conference site- http://www.rtrlive.com], was appointed to the Commission by the governor of NH to represent consumer interests. This group meets once per month and one of its tasks is to provide recommendations to the state legislature including recommendations on possible legislation.

In the Oct 17th meeting in Concord, NH several aspects of proposed legislation were debated and several important votes were taken.

In this marathon meeting spanning three and a half hour long meeting the commission voted to remove specific language in proposed legislation submitted by Rep. Neal Kurk, which was designed to raise the bar on the microchipping of humans. In a 9-5 vote, the committee voted to strike down language requiring that anyone receiving a human implant must be at least eighteen years of age and eliminated language that would have required an individual's own personal consent to receive a microchip in their body.

The original text of Rep. Kurk's legislation read, "Consent of a guardian, guardian ad litem, attorney-in-fact, parent or other agent shall not be considered adequate consent."

The new language proposed by industry representative Richard Varn removed the words "shall not" and replaced them with "shall".

In addition the Commission struck out an entire provision which would have prohibited the microchipping of corpses. There was a discussion about the fact that many people have religious objections to receiving a microchip post-mortem and see it as a desecration of their body.

The committee considered allowing a provision which would have allowed an opt-out policy wherein all corpses would be potentially subject to chipping unless the individual had opted out while alive through some applicable directive.

Once realizing that they had the majority on that point, they moved to completely strike the language prohibiting corpse chipping altogether. This was discussed after people expressed dismay that their deceased relatives had been chipped as part of the cleanup of hurricane Katrina.

"These votes were not surprising considering the makeup of the commission," said Dr. Katherine Albrecht. "Those with Pro-RFID views are disproportionately represented on the Commission. We should clarify that this is really just an advisory body, and while we will be making recommendations we're not responsible for enacting public policy. Although it seems obvious that the deck is stacked on the Commission in favor of industry, there is still a chance to get the type of bill that we want once this goes out to our legislature."

# # #




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Only the Americans that know what is really going on are feeling a bit bleak due to the majority of Americans that think everything will be just fine. 500 chanels and nothing on.