I would like some opinions on my situation and what I should do. The father of my daughter has never seen her, nor expressed any desire to do so. There was a paternity question but after the other person was excluded there was no doubt. He was informed and I offered every possible way to get this settled ourselves and not have to involve the courts. I currently have a case with DCSE, but I haven't heard anything in months. She has no clue who he is or anything like that. After he was informed he changed his number and refused to talk to me. The only way I know anything about what is going on in his household is because his wife talks to me via Yahoo Messenger. I want him to take responsibility for his daughter and pay child support to help us out, but I don't necessarily think he should be involved in her life. He has been prone to violence and his wife has told me he had child porn sites on his computer when she met him, but then I think, well then why did she marry him and have his child. She claims he never spends any time with the daughter living in his own house. He certainly hasn't shown any interest in the child he helped to create before they ever even met. I need some advice, legal and otherwise, as to what I should do. Should I go after child support and if so does that mean he gets visitation? Will it be supervised or unsupervised, considering she doesn't know him from a stranger on the street? Or do I just drop the whole thing and keep him from getting the chance to hurt my daughter?

I want him to take responsibility for his daughter and pay child support to help us out, but I don't necessarily think he should be involved in her life. Isn't this sort of wanting your cake and eat it, too?

He has been prone to violence and his wife has told me he had child porn sites on his computer when she met him, but then I think, well then why did she marry him and have his child.Good question. Another good question is why did you have his child?

Should I go after child support and if so does that mean he gets visitation? Will it be supervised or unsupervised, considering she doesn't know him from a stranger on the street? Your daughter is entitled to financial support from both parents. He'll get visitation if he wants it. Given the circumstances, it'd probably be supervised at first, then gradually weaned down to unsupervised. As a side note, I don't think you gossiping with his wife is a good idea. Their family life is really none of your business and she should have more loyalty to her husband than to bad mouth him to someone who may be suing him for 18 years worth of child support. It's kind of a wonder she even speaks to you at all, let alone disparagingly about her own husband.

I had my daughter, because I loved her from the second I found out I was pregnant. It's called being a mother and just because I didn't get the father for her I wanted, shouldn't be the deciding factor of me not having her. I didn't have HIS child I had MINE. He has made it clear that he wants nothing to do with her and could care less that she is even his flesh and blood. I wonder, do you even have kids? Cause if you do, I don't believe a true mother would ever ask another why they had their child. I do not believe in abortion and I WANTED my child whether he did or not, so I had her and I am raising her. Everybody wants to have their cake and eat it too, it's called human nature. She is entitled to the best life I can provide and he should take responsibility for his child, whether he wants to be a part of it or not, but I am probably not going to make him. Since you want to put your opinion in about his wife, she started talking to me because he is a pathological liar and she wanted to know the truth about the situation. He was feeding her lies making me the bad guy. My child was born long before they ever met and so she knows it would not be right to play some blame game with me, considering he knew she could be his and never said a word to her. I also believe she needed someone to talk to and her so called husband was treating her like dirt. I also believe cutting ties would do me more harm then good, so if she wants to talk then I let her. At least I have a way to get information for things like when my child got sick and had to have surgery. As far as his family life goes, the things that she has told me are absolutely my business. They are in regards to how he treats or better yet abuses the children in his home. I am the mother of his first child, and she is a good mom and wouldn't want to see my daughter befall the same kind of treatment, so she is being a decent human being and letting me know what I am dealing with. I am grateful to her for it. Loyalty in a marriage is a two way street, and if he can't show her respect and loyalty, then why should she be loyal to him. Either way, this question was not about her and him and that is what most of your opinion and answer is based on, so either provide some better advice as to the actual situation at hand, or don't respond at all.

I personally would sacrifice the child support for the safety of my child. However, I know how expensive it is to raise a child. You might be wondering if you are really doing what is best for her. Believe be she will thank you later if you put her safety first. The last thing you want is a little girl that is damaged for life because her dad abused her. I can tell you put her first and that is honorable. You may want to look into other ways of getting extra support. I would look into cash assistance and food stamps. Many times a single mother will qualify for this if the father is not paying child support. Good luck :)

I would look into cash assistance and food stamps. Many times a single mother will qualify for this if the father is not paying child support. Yes, but keep in mind that, once she applies for public assistance, the state will compel her to pursue the father for child support. In fact, the state might even do it themselves.

Child support and visitation are 2 separate issues.

He will need to file with the courts to get visitation... you filing for child support has nothing to do with it.

Child support and visitation are 2 separate issues.

He will need to file with the courts to get visitation....you filing for child support has nothing to do with it.


Legally, this is true. But in his mind, there may be a connection. I think if she files for child support, he will find a way to punish her for doing it. He sounds like bad news and I would not recommend involving him by asking for child support. And I agree that if she files for any kind of public assistance, the state will go after him, with the same result.

I see nothing wrong with communicating with his wife, except for the same problem. If he finds out, he may make trouble either for the wife or the ex girlfriend or both. I think it's nice that the two women support each other to some extent.
Asking

Thanks to everyone for all your suggestions. I was on TANF and Food Stamps for about 2 years, but now I make too much money for that. I think it is ridiculous that the State expects a single mom to be able to afford all she has to in order to raise her children, and yet they seem to think $1300 gross/month is the cutoff for someone who needs help. So we are struggling but we are making it. I have a wonderful mother who pays my rent and half of my daycare so we can live in a nice, safe place. I do not know what I would do without her. I have decided not to go after Child Support. And you are right, when you receive services from Social Services you have 1 of 2 choices here. Either cooperate fully with Child Support Enforcement or sign a paper claiming good cause. That basically means you fear for the life of your child and/or yourself if they were to contact the father and therefore you do not have to give any information. Without the signature of the mother they cannot go after child support. I have come to believe that God watches out for his children and I believe if I was suppose to be receiving child support something would have changed. The state has a current case open but they have done nothing with it, and he shows no interest in anything to do with this situation. I believe that is God's way of telling me something. While I was stressing about the money situation, we came into some money from an accident that I thought had been settled, and I believe that was God's way of telling me I'm doing the right thing. No matter how selfish it may sound, I will do whatever I have to in order to prevent my daugther from being hurt by father figures the way I was. I had a father who really didn't care that much about me, even though he says he did, his actions spoke louder than his words. I had a stepfather who abused me both physically and emotionally, so I am definitely not going to let that happen to her. As far as the wife goes, there have been many times where her and I were talking and he was sitting right there. He has been cheating on her with his best friends wife for a very long time and he has known since day 1 that we were communicating and he didn't care. So he wouldn't try anything stupid. Again, I want to thank everyone for their advice and support. I wish everyone the very best.

Good question. Another good question is why did you have his child?


I had my daughter, because I loved her from the second I found out I was pregnant. It's called being a mother and just because I didn't get the father for her I wanted, shouldn't be the deciding factor of me not having her. I didn't have HIS child I had MINE.

I think you misunderstood what s_cianci was saying here. The question would have been better phrased as; why did you have unprotected sex with such a loser?

That you were happy you became pregnant and love your child is fine. Now I'm reading between the lines here and may be wrong, but it sounds to me like you were looking to have a child and didn't much care with who. If that's the case, then I would forego child support since you got what you wanted and shouldn't burden him with it.

On the other hand, if this was truly something you hadn't planned on, especially if it happened because he insisted on the unprotected sex, then you owe it to your daughter to provide the best home you can. And if you are struggling financially, then you should get him to pony up his fair share. Why should the taxpapyers foot the bill when he ducks his responsibility?

As Macksmom said, support and visitation are different things. If you can prove he's a danger to the child then you can prevent visitation while still getting support.

I think you misunderstood what s_cianci was saying here. The question would have been better phrased as; why did you have unprotected sex with such a loser?

MelissajMurphy does not have to answer this question, if it's really a question. She as asking what is best for her child now, not what you personally think she should have done on a particular night some while back. Your question doesn't qualify as either advice or constructive criticism; it's punitive.


... it sounds to me like you were looking to have a child and didn't much care with who. If that's the case, then I would forego child support since you got what you wanted and shouldn't burden him with it.

On the other hand, if this was truly something you hadn't planned on, especially if it happened because he insisted on the unprotected sex, then you owe it to your daughter to provide the best home you can. And if you are struggling financially, then you should get him to pony up his fair share. Why should the taxpapyers foot the bill when he ducks his responsibility?

I believe this black and white depiction of MJM as being either all good and ignorant or cynical, cold, and knowing what she was getting into is unrealistic and irrelevant. What matters now is what's best for the child, not MJM's frame of mind on the day the child was conceived. (You might as well try to decide what to do based on speculations about the father's thoughts on the day he conceived her.) I think MJM is doing a great job of keeping the child's interests front and center.

Actually I think it was phrased better the first time. You can't tell me that in your life you have never had unprotected sex, along with more than half of the world. Come on now! Yes you are wrong. Getting pregnant was not what I was trying to accomplish, happiness is what I was trying to find. My ex of 2 years at the time just up and walked out on me. Then I met, who I thought was a great guy, and got involved with him. After a while I realized he wasn't such a great guy and I certainly had no idea he would turn out to be abusive. So no I wasn't trying to get pregnant. I am doing what I can to provide the best home for my daughter. I am a taxpayer myself and do not condone people milking the system, but there are people who really do need the help. The states aren't cracking down on dead beat dads who are ordered to pay child support as much as they should. So even if he was ordered, there's no telling that I would actually get the money without having to go through a world of drama. I am not receiving ANY help from the state or federal government, so therefore taxpayers are not supporting me or my child. In the beginning, yes, I did get help, because I needed it. Not because I wasn't working but it is very hard to make it in this world with a child, no help from the father at all. Child Support Enforcement has been dragging his case out for years, for whatever reason, and so it is not my fault as to why there wasn't something set up by now. I think you are misreading things terribly in my posts. I never said I wanted to be pregnant, and I think it was very out of line for you to say what you said about me wanting to have a child and by restating the question the way you did. Even if I had been trying to get pregnant, which again I WAS NOT, he was a part in it too and therefore it is also his responsibility no matter what the circumstances. Men don't get to get out of their job as a parent just because the woman may have wanted the child or because they think they are being trapped or because they are just plain immature. He made a conscious decision to have unprotected relations with me, as did I, and therefore he should not be let out of his responsibility. The fact that I have chosen to no go after him is just that, my decision, and I have taken responsibility for my choices with him 3 fold. It is very apparent by the responses who has children and who doesn't and frankly I don't think if you don't have kids that you have any right to comment on anything to do with children. You can't possibly understand or give accurate or helpful advice if you have no idea what it's like. So Scott, you should really consider getting another hobby, because your advice, at least about these topics, is so far off and inaccurate that they can't possibly do anything but aggitate someone. It certainly doesn't help. I would suggest before answering any more questions that deal with children or relationships, you try and put yourself in a position where you can ask yourself, "How would I feel if this happened to my sister, best friend or mother?" I guarantee you wouldn't ask them insulting questions or make insulting insinuations as you have done here. To everyone else, thank you again for your input, it has been very helpful and I am now done with this site.

THANK YOU!! Asking that was exactly what I have been trying to get across. What they are saying has nothing to do with the problem at hand, but their judgments which are completely unwelcome and unwanted. If this is a site for people to get help with questions then they should not have to feel like they are being ridiculed for what may or may not have been their purposes. People need to give the best advice about the situation at hand and everybody else needs to save their opinion for myspace or something else and grow up just a little bit. Thank you again, asking, for all of your help and supportive answers.

Well then you have made your decision... you don't want to go for child support because you don't want him to see your daughter. That's fine... up to you. But remember that is your choice, and you can't complain how hard it is raising her on your own, and how her father is a deadbeat and doesn't pay child support to help raise his daughter. By not filing for child support you are taking that added help away from your daughter... if you can provide on your own, great, just don't put your struggles off on the father.

Best of luck.

MelissajMurphy does not have to answer this question, if it's really a question. She as asking what is best for her child now, not what you personally think she should have done on a particular night some while back. Your question doesn't qualify as either advice or constructive criticism; it's punitive.

You are correct, she doesn't have to answer it. But I maintain it's a valid question in determining what advice to give.


I believe this black and white depiction of MJM as being either all good and ignorant or cynical, cold, and knowing what she was getting into is unrealistic and irrelevant. What matters now is what's best for the child, not MJM's frame of mind on the day the child was conceived. (You might as well try to decide what to do based on speculations about the father's thoughts on the day he conceived her.) I think MJM is doing a great job of keeping the child's interests front and center.

Here I disagree. I don't think that she is keeping the child's best interest front and center. By refusing a source of income that might help give the child a better life, she isn't necessarily putting the child first. Ostensibly, the reason is she would rather go without the income then have the father in the child's life. My point is that she may be able to do both, since support and visitation are separate issues. A parent can be made to provide support without having visitation.

And I do believe that her judgement IS an issue here. She appears to have exercised poor judgement in conceiving the child in the first place.

You can't tell me that in your life you have never had unprotected sex, along with more than half of the world. Come on now!!

Not only can I tell you that, I will tell you that! I have never had unprotected sexual intercourse outside of my marriage. I never engaged in unprotected sexual intecourse until I was prepared to have a child. I have stated, on several occasions in these forums, that I do not believe that anyone should engage in sexual intecourse until and unless they are prepared, financially and emotionally to have a child.


Yes you are wrong. Getting pregnant was not what I was trying to accomplish, happiness is what I was trying to find. My ex of 2 years at the time just up and walked out on me. Then I met, who I thought was a great guy, and got involved with him. After a while I realized he wasn't such a great guy and I certainly had no idea he would turn out to be abusive. So no I wasn't trying to get pregnant.

So you should not have had unprotected intrercourse until you were sure of him.


Even if I had been trying to get pregnant, which again I WAS NOT, he was a part in it too and therefore it is also his responsibility no matter what the circumstances. Men don't get to get out of their job as a parent just because the woman may have wanted the child or because they think they are being trapped or because they are just plain immature. He made a concious decision to have unprotected relations with me, as did I, and therefore he should not be let out of his responsibility.

EXACTLY, yet you are letting him out of his responsibility!


The fact that I have chosen to no go after him is just that, my decision, and I have taken responsibility for my choices with him 3 fold. It is very apparent by the responses who has children and who doesn't and frankly I don't think if you don't have kids that you have any right to comment on anything to do with children. You can't possibly understand or give accurate or helpful advice if you have no idea what it's like. So Scott, you should really consider getting another hobby, because your advice, at least about these topics, is so far off and inaccurate that they can't possibly do anything but aggitate someone. It certainly doesn't help. I would suggest before answering any more questions that deal with children or relationships, you try and put yourself in a position where you can ask yourself, "How would I feel if this happened to my sister, best friend or mother?" I guarantee you wouldn't ask them insulting questions or make insulting insinuations as you have done here. To everyone else, thank you again for your input, it has been very helpful and I am now done with this site.

I stand by what I have said here. First, I did not ask the question, I was just clarifying what I thought the question was because I thought you misunderstood it. If I misinterpreted things that you said, I apologize, but I maintain they were valid interpretations based on what you posted.

By the way I do have a daughter who believes as I do about having unprotected sex. And I totally disagree that my advice "in these topics" is far off and inaccurate. I don't even agree that my advice to you can be characterized that way.

My point is that she may be able to do both, since support and visitation are separate issues. A parent can be made to provide support without having visitation.

And I do believe that her judgement IS an issue here. She appears to have exercised poor judgement in conceiving the child in the first place.

ScottGem, I agree that legally it's possible to separate the two. In fact, legally that's mandated. But proving that someone is abusive requires considerable evidence. She can't just assert it's so and have a judge believe her. MJM may not be able to prove it to a judge's satisfaction and then she might be required to share custody, which she believes is not in the child's interest. (I'm accepting her take on this, because it sounds credible and the father is not here presenting an alternate view.) Even if she could prove beyond doubt that he is abusive, it is not necessarily easy to do that and the process would be upsetting not only to the father, but to both mothers and their respective children. He's bound to fight it, as conceding that he is abusive would be damaging to his reputation and to his relationship with his current family. I wouldn't put the two families through that given that he has been leaving her alone up to now. MJM also has a relationship with the wife and any support she collects from him will necessarily impact her friend. Many people make choices like this one based on an overall assessment of the moral pluses and minuses, rather than a more rigid rule-based approach. Ultimately, rules are often somewhat arbitrary.

As for her judgement, everyone's judgement is an issue, including the father's. But the mother's judgement in conceiving a child with a man who turned out not to be a suitable husband and father is moot at this point and, unfortunately, hardly unusual. Many unsuitable fathers have conceived children. Unless you think--as I sometimes do:) --that people should be required to pass a parenting class and obtain a license to conceive, there's not much you can do about guys like him. Do you think he volunteered to use a condom and she said no? Not too likely! You can decide to assign all the blame to the woman, but then what? If it makes you feel better to blame her, that's nice for you, but I don't see how that otherwise solves or clarifies anything or helps the child.

I think she's choosing to go without child support not because she originally planned to raise a child alone but because it's the best choice she can make in these circumstances. That doesn't make her a cynic; it makes her a loving mother. She and her mother are making a sacrifice for this child because they believe it's the right thing to do. I don't understand why you seem to be objecting to that or trying to make it seem as if she's doing it for different reasons than she has stated. Does it seem not credible to you that she and her mother would do this?

Asking
We don't know what proof she has or what the likelihood that the father will try to get visitation and/or custody. I haven't disagreed that it would be better to forego support then the risk the child. I'm just not sure that its necessary to do so. And that's where the judgement issue comes into play.

I'm not trying to "blame" anyone, but there were certain things about the initial posts that bothered me.

Apparently some bad decisions were made along the way. This leaves me concerned that bad decisions are still being made.

I have blatantly admitted to many people, as I will do here, that my life was in a different place then as opposed to now. I made many mistakes, one of which was having unprotected sex with this man. For the record, I was drunk, my friends left me and frankly he took advantage of the situation, but I also could have stopped it. So I am not putting blame on him for how the child was conceived. Since that night I have not nor will I ever have unprotected sex with another man unless he is my husband and we WANT to have another child. As a matter of fact, I haven't had sex at all since my last relationship, because I don't believe in casual sex. YES, I made a mistake, just like everyone else has or will in their life. Scott, I am glad you and your daughter share such great values. I have recently reaffirmed my faith and plan on raising my daughter with those same values. However, I would never call what happened a mistake, because that would be calling my daugther a mistake. I believe that God has a plan and that his plan was to give me my daughter in the exact circumstance which is happening. My life was quickly spiraling out of control and this was his way of giving me an eye opener. I would not take back a single thing I did because then things may not have turned out the way they have and my daughter wouldn't look like she does and have the personality she does, which I love with all of my heart. I believe everything happens for a reason. Let me ask you this, Scott. If there was some man who could claim rights to your daughter, that had a history of physical, emotional and SEXUAL abuse, wouldn't you do whatever necessary to protect her from those horrible things happening to her? I believe you would, no matter what people thought or did, because that would make you a loving, caring parent. I am doing what is in my daughters best interest. That is the only thing I care about. I couldn't care less about my feelings towards him or his towards me, that is a mute point. What is important is my daughter is safe and taken care of. You are right Asking, my mother and I have talked about this extensively among ourselves and with a lawyer and there is no guarantee that he will pay child support and not get visitation. At first it would definitely be supervised, but eventually it would be unsupervised, giving him the chance to hurt my daughter for his own means or to get back at me for whatever. So we have made the decision to not go after him for child support and protect her from harm, which is the main job of a parent in the first place. Our job is to raise our children to be the best they can be and protect them from all the harm we can. I was certainly not aware of this man's past or future and through talking with his wife and social services I have learned not only is he abusive, but he has been investigated for indecent liberties with a young female child. So how am I not doing what is in the best interest of my daughter? I am preventing him from being able to have any contact with her without having to take my chances on a legal system that has let plenty of other parents down in this same type of situation. It is very hard to prove and I'm not going to let him be in her life so that he can hurt and traumatize her, and I cannot believe, Scott, that is what you would advise someone to do, EVER! So my bad choices are in the past and I AM doing what is in the best interest of my child. She is loved and well taken care of and isn't that all that really matters.

Since my daughter was born I have done a complete 180 with my life. How would you feel if someone was judging your entire life with your child on one mistake you made over 3 1/2 years ago? You are taking one night and making it into what my life is now and you could not be further from the truth. I do not go out, unless its to take my daughter to the park or an outing. I do not drink, I do not smoke, I do not do drugs. I work fulltime, am going to school almost fulltime to obtain a degree in teaching, and I go home every night to my daughter. I cook, I clean, I do everything a virtuous house wife would do minus the husband. We have a very nice 2 bedroom apt in a safe neighborhood. My daughter goes to school while I'm at work and has a very large extended family that loves her more than life itself. So you can rest assured Scott that no more bad decisions are being made. I have even refused to date because I don't want to do ANYTHING that could affect my child in a negative way. So right now I am completely concentrating on my daughter and raising her in the absolute best ways a parent can raise her. Just because I made one mistake 3 1/2 years ago, does not make me a bad parent, and frankly that is what you are implying. I'm sure you have made mistakes in your life, because no one is perfect. I thought this forum was designed for help, but apparently you must feel it's designed for riticule, because that is what you have made this into. You have gone from judging my actions made over 3 years ago, to now judging my life now, which you know absolutely nothing about, so lets concentrate on the issue at hand.

First, I am judging based on what you have told us. As you reveal more about the situation my judgement is being altered.


Let me ask you this, Scott. If there was some man who could claim rights to your daughter, that had a history of physical, emotional and SEXUAL abuse, wouldn't you do whatever necessary to protect her from those horrible things happening to her?

You really haven't been paying attention to what I've been saying have you? I have maintained from the first that support and visitation are separate things. I have said several times that you can get support without allowing visitation.

I agree, if it comes down to accepting visitation allong with the support, then foregoing the support is the right thing. But all I'm saying is that you may be able to have your cake and eat it too and you should give that a try.

Yes they are separate issues to a point. Here is the problem with that scenario, per the lawyer I have already spoken to. There is no guarantee that I will get support without him receiving some kind of visitation. What I know about him is very hard to prove, even with a written statement from his wife if he were willing. She has never reported him for the abuse he has given her, her son from a previous marriage and the neglect he is showing the almost 2 yr old daughter they have now. I could be awarded child support, then he could go after visitation. If I could prove what I know then yes I can't believe any judge in their right mind would grant him any contact. That would be like granting a known sexual predator access to a school yard. But the problem lies in the other scenario. If the judge didn't see things my way and granted him visitation, even if it was supervised at first, it would eventually be unsupervised. Then it would be too late for me to prevent her from being hurt until he actually did something against the law that I could then take back to court and have that order re-evaluated. I am just not willing to take that risk. Do I wish I could get the support she deserves... Yes. Am I willing to risk the welfare of my child in the hands of a court system that has let many down in the past... No! I appreciate all the advice, and if I have taken anything the wrong way I apologize. Keep in mind it's a very touchy subject for a single mother who is just trying to do what is in the absolute best interest of her one and only angel.

Asking, I haven't disagreed that it would be better to forego support then the risk the child. I'm just not sure that its necessary to do so. And that's where the judgement issue comes into play.

Well, it seems quite clear that he doesn't care enough that he has asked for any visitation or custody yet. However, I would bet a GREAT deal of money that if she went after child support not only would he go after visitation he would probably threaten going for full custody. We've read about it here time and time again. That in the long run will only cause a great deal of pain and a lot of time and money in court. Which won't do any of them any good.

MJM, you sound like you are a GREAT mom. Keep doing what you are doing. You are blessed to have family support. I wouldn't go after the support in your situation as you have explained it. And God will provide for you. I am sure He shown you that already. Just keep trusting and praying and let Him lead you in your decisions.

Good luck. Blessings.

Here is the problem with that scenario, per the lawyer I have already spoken to. There is no guarantee that I will get support without him receiving some kind of visitation. ... I could be awarded child support, then he could go after visitation. ... Am I willing to risk the welfare of my child in the hands of a court system that has let many down in the past...No! I appreciate all the advice, and if I have taken anything the wrong way I apologize. Keep in mind it's a very touchy subject for a single mother who is just trying to do what is in the absolute best interest of her one and only angel.

The only thing that bothers me here, at this point, is why did you bother asking for opinions? In your original post you started saying; "I would like some opinions on my situation and what I should do." Yet you appear to have already made up your mind and have gotten advice from an attorney more familiar with the full situation.

I'm not saying you aren't making the right decision. Based on the subsequent details you provided, it probably is the best decision. Its just that you asked for opinions and you got good ones based on the info you supplied, but you really had already decided what to do.

I concur with Scott. Your initial post did kind of reek of self-righteousness and therefore left a bad taste in a lot of peoples' mouths, mine included. However, as you've stated more facts, things now make a lot more sense. It is true that, if you were to go after child support, he could very well likely pursue visitation and/or custody and as you yourself have said, it'd be very difficult to convince a judge that he is totally unworthy of any kind of visitation with his child, despite his patterns of abuse and neglect. And as you've also correctly pointed out, as time goes on his visitation rights would become more and more liberal, thereby making her totally vulnerable to the abuse and neglect that he's already dished out to his other family members. But I continue to stand by one thing that I stated in my initial response, and that is you should leave his wife out of it. You've already decided that it's not worth pursuing him for child support and that him having visitation with her is not in her best interests, so he's basically out of the picture. That being the case, I feel that his wife should be out of the picture as well. It's not likely that any judge would ever entertain any testimony from her, either on behalf of or against her husband as a spouse would not be regarded as an objective, credible witness. Furthermore, by encouraging her to continue to speak disparagingly about her husband, loser though he may be, that could actually work against her should there ever be any question about custody or visitation with any children that he has with her. If he has it on record that she's spoken disparagingly about him with someone who, like I pointed out in my first response, was a potential plaintiff in an ongoing lawsuit against him, not to mention the mother of his other child (and remember, things that are communicated via e-mail or IM can be printed out), that could set her up as the bad guy should she ever need to separate from him and try to block him from visiting her children, for the same reasons that you don't want him visiting your daughter. I know that you feel that you've been a source of strength and support for each other, but things being what they are you could actually be hurting her by continuing to communicate with her the way you've been doing.

I didn't pick up on any “self-righteousness” in the original post, but I have been thinking that a lot of what Melissa added later was pretty much obvious to me from the start and I can see now that it probably wasn't obvious to others. If you have dealt with an abusive spouse before, or spent time reading about abusers, then a lot of the information that seemed to be "missing" from Melissa's original post was implicit. Abusers tend to behave in predictable, stereotypical ways-- "as if they all read the same book" is how some people have put it. So because I knew that he was abusive, I could guess a lot of things about him, including that if he was asked to pay child support, he would probably want to punish Melissa by trying to get custody.

Some people here may not know that abusive fathers are statistically more likely to seek custody than non-abusive fathers. (It doesn't matter whether it's physical abuse, sexual abuse, or verbal abuse.) AND, when they go to court, abusers are more likely to GET custody than good fathers. This seems contradictory, but apparently it's true. Abusers seek custody because it's a good way to hurt or scare their ex partner and it also allows them to create lots of situations that will upset the ex. For example, if he forgets to pick up the kids, he could make her late for work. If she then loses her job, he can tell people she's unreliable. If she gets angry and shouts at him, he tells people how patient he is with her bad behavior. I'm just making up these examples, of course, but these are pretty typical ploys by people who do this stuff.

Abusers get custody (sometimes even full custody) because they are good at creating a great first impression. Judges and social workers can be taken in by the abuser's charming "great dad" persona, especially if there's no paper trail to show how he really behaves when alone with his partner or kids. It isn't anybody's fault that this happens, except the abuser for being really good at deceiving people, I guess.

So, anyway, if Melissa's ex boyfriend is abusive, that means that statistically he is more likely to react to a request for child support by trying to get custody of the little girl. (And he's likely to succeed, through charm and perseverance.) The lawyer Melissa consulted probably knows that. I wish I'd said this earlier; maybe it would have helped avoid some of the conflict. I just assumed that it was obvious, but now I realize that really it's not obvious at all. (Most people would think that an abuser would be less likely to get custody, not more... ) I think if the ex boyfriend were a responsible upright dad, like I think Scott was assuming (or at least wishing), then Scott's advice would be totally right. Why would a person ask for custody of a child he's never seen or tried to see? It seems illogical. Unfortunately, when dealing with an abuser, you have to think a little differently. Hope this helps make the situation seem less strange.

I think if the ex boyfriend were a responsible upright dad, like I think Scott was assuming (or at least wishing), then Scott's advice would be totally right. Why would a person ask for custody of a child he’s never seen or tried to see? It seems illogical. Unfortunately, when dealing with an abuser, you have to think a little differently. Hope this helps make the situation seem less strange.

No, I did not make that assumption. My assumption was that a judge would look at the situation where the father had previously made no attempt to be part of the child's life. The judge would look at evidence of violence and abuse. The judge would then conclude that the request for visitation was a spite move to try and prevent support and would deny it.

I still think that is a possibility. But if a local attorney familiar with the courts in her area was advising against it, then the local courts may have a history of not seeing it that way.

If you can raise this child on your own, do it. There is the potential for too much drama here. And why are you in constant contact with his wife?

After reading more of your post, you decided to have this child knowing the butt he is, you knew he didn't care about this child, so it's on you. Raise her yourself. She does not need all of this irresponsible adult behavior in her life. He's a loser. You don't need him and neither does your daughter.
You decided to do it on your own, so do it on your own

No, I did not make that assumption. My assumption was that a judge would look at the situation where the father had previously made no attempt to be part of the child's life. The judge would look at evidence of violence and abuse. The judge would then conclude that the request for visitation was a spite move to try and prevent support and would deny it.

I still think that is a possibility. But if a local attorney familiar with the courts in her area was advising against it, then the local courts may have a history of not seeing it that way.

I see. Sorry that I imputed thoughts to you. I shouldn't have tried to guess. I agree with you about it looking bad that the father has not been a part of the child's life so far. But the father could assert that the girlfriend wouldn't let him to see the daughter and that he had given up. He could even say he didn't know where they were, which sounds like it was true for a while. So unless she can actually document that she tried to get him involved, it might just be her word against his.

As far as violence and sexual abuse, these things are often even harder to prove. Basically, someone must go directly to a doctor and (1) document the injuries or sexual act AND ALSO (2) document that they were inflicted by the abuser. He either has to admit it in writing or else a third party has to witness the abuse or something like that (unless DNA testing would work in this case).

Twenty years ago, my ex husband assaulted me and fractured my arm, which he freely admitted to our marriage counselor. We both heard the bone snap and it hurt for a year. The counselor didn't write down what he said and I didn't go get an X ray, so I can never prove it. But my not being able to prove that he broke my arm doesn't mean I made it up either. I hate it when people boil things like this down to "he said, she said," as though that automatically means that nothing significant happened.

I agree that it would be so much better if Melissa's daughter could get the child support she deserves.
Asking

Ok in response to s_cianci, I wasn't being self righteous about anything and I can't imagine where you would possibly get that idea. However, one major problem with discussing things online, as it has become very apparent in the responses to my original post, is delivery and perception. It is very difficult to try and determine how someone may or may not have meant a statement. Therefore, words and meanings very easily get misconstrued and misunderstood. I obviously did not do a very good job in explaining the situation fully by as Asking said I thought it would be understood. Since I was abused I do have that mindset as she laid out in her post. Where the wife is concerned, that information has been misunderstood as well, to no one else's fault but my own. I am no longer in contact with his wife. I haven't spoken to her in months. I am fully aware conversations can be printed from online conversations. I, myself, have saved all the conversations and emails I have traded with both of them, for precautionary reasons. She provided me with valuable information and I am grateful, however, since he did make his intentions clear and she does offer up a lot of drama and more information than necessary I cut communication with her when the situation ended. I am not sorry I talked to her because otherwise I would be in the dark about many things, which would not be good for me or my daughter. But to ease people's minds, that situation has stopped. In closing, when I posted my question originally I had not spoken to a lawyer or made up my mind. I have done so since my original post. All the advice here has been very helpful in making my decision. One final response to Homegirl 50's comment. I was not aware of how bad of a person he was when I found out I was pregnant. As a matter of fact, even though we weren't together, we were still communicating in a friendly manner while I was pregnant. He got transferred out west around the time of her birth and it wasn't until after I found him again that I found out I was having his child. However even if I had known, I do not believe in abortion and I didn't want to give her up because I love my daughter and have since day 1, so him being the father may have complicated things, but it has and shouldn't have any bearing for anyone as to whether they are going to love and raise their child. What kind of person would I be if I got rid of my child just because I didn't like her father, that would be dumb and completely heartless.

Great answer, Melissa! I think you are doing great and am so impressed with your strength and courage.
Asking

One final response to Homegirl 50's comment. I was not aware of how bad of a person he was when I found out I was pregnant. As a matter of fact, even though we weren't together, we were still communicating in a friendly manner while I was pregnant. He got transfered out west around the time of her birth and it wasn't until after I found him again that I found out I was having his child. However even if I had known, I do not believe in abortion and I didn't want to give her up because I love my daughter and have since day 1, so him being the father may have complicated things, but it has and shouldn't have any bearing for anyone as to whether they are going to love and raise their child. What kind of person would I be if I got rid of my child just because I didn't like her father, that would be dumb and completely heartless.
I never mention nor even though about not having your child. I don't believe in abortion. All I am saying is, now that you know the kind of person he is, why would you invite all of that drama in your life and the life of your daughter. If you can support her on your own, do it. If not, I wish you the best in trying to get money from him.

After reading more of your post, you decided to have this child knowing the butt he is, you knew he didnt care about this child, so it's on you. Raise her yourself. She does not need all of this irresponsible adult behavior in her life. He's a loser. You don't need him and neither does your daughter.
You decided to do it on your own, so do it on your own

In the first sentence you say I decided to have his child knowing the butt he is, and that's just not true, since I didn't know the type of person he would turn out to be. Nor did he express any ill will of having children. He only started acting this way once he found out the child was actually his and that's all I was getting at.

I misunderstood you, but now know the kind of person he is, and the type of drama you are going to be in for... any way. I wish you the best.

Was he married when you got pregnant?

No, he didn't get married until our daughter was almost 1. I would never get involved with a married man, if they don't have finalized divorce papers it's not happening. That's would be just asking for all kinds of drama and trouble.