Please see my post from last week 9/28/07. Same repair guy came back 3 times. First time to replace the outside compressor fan motor, second time to replace a contactor in the outside unit. (My AC was working fine when I called for the repair, just the fan motor was making noise!) After he came out to replace the contactor within hours I noticed the unit was not cooling my home (No, I don't know why he had to replace the contactor)! He came back for a third time (and another $120 to add 3 lbs of freon). The unit worked for a week! I just noticed that it was hot inside, checked the outside unit and it's frozen.

NO... I'm not calling the same guy back. Just need advice on what to do. Both the outside compressor and the inside airhandler (gas furnace too) are 11-12 years old. We live in Florida, if that helps. I know that there is now a freon leak, there was never any problem with freon before this guy came here! No, he didn't look for a leak. Is there an easy way to find a leak that isn't expensive? Is it worth it to do that?

Do I buy a new unit? If so how do I decide what brand, and how much should it cost approximately? Do I just get a new compressor outside or do I need to change the coil or anything in the air handler inside too? We are elderly and have fairly little financial resources. Our home is 1560 square feet. It is concrete block building. I believe the current size unit is 2.5 ton.

Any advice anyone can provide would be appreciated.

Thanks
The Elliotts

First, I am not a trained HVAC mechanic, just 58 yrs old, owner of homes now and for the last 30 yrs and have dealt w/ similar issues. I agree with you that there is a freon leak somewhere. Considering the age of the units inside and out and what you have stated thus far, I would consider replacing both and estimate the cost to be about $3,500 to $4,000 but that was my cost 8 yrs ago and I am total electric- they would be more efficient than the older units and thus you operating costs would be lower I would think than they are now plus fewer unexpected repairs hopefully and probably more comfortable. I would hate you can't recoup your expenses thus far so rethink your stmt that you will not call the same HVAC company back... maybe talk with management not the svc mgr and see if you might be a cut rate deal on new units. Get a 2nd opinion also from another HVAC company and quote, etc. Then maybe a trained HVAC person will see your posts and give you there knowledgeable opionion, ideas. Good luck.

A frosted refrigerant line may or may not indicate a low refrigerant charge, if your indoor fan is not running or a dirty filter or any thing to restrick air flow will cause iceing of the line, if the contactor sticks together and the indoor fan cycles off this will also cause the ice, a low charge this fast should be easy to find using soap bubbles (dish soap) in a spray bottle will indicate a leak by blowing bubbles. What you have is not a costly fix with a reputable dealer in comparison to replacing your equipment. Also look for oil, oil travels with the refrigerant and will indicate a leak, Good luck, Mike

Actec thank you for your answer. The guy that did the work IS the owner of the company. His company is only a year old. I know him and his wife through church and thought we could trust him. I told him the problem started after he replaced the contactor and he told me that the contactor wouldn't have anything to do with the outside line freezing up. Now you have me wondering if he knows what he's doing because you say it can..

The unit only needed 3 lbs of freon and does not have any history of problems. I am thinking of calling this guy out one more time and telling him what you've said. I will ask him to recheck the contactor and the inside fan and also to check to see if any freon leaked. I'm thinking that if the freon isn't low I will know for sure that something else is causing the outside line to freeze up. Also, when I restarted the unit last week when he added the 3 lbs of freon I had to wipe up a bunch of water inside the air return vent inside the house. I had opened it up for a neighbor to check my filter (it was brand new and clean) and just inside the vent cover was moisture. The repair guy said it was because the inside coil had frozen up also. What does that mean, if anything?

And any information about a new system if it comes down to that would be apprecaited. Should I replace the outside compressor and the inside coil at the same time? If so, what do 2.5 ton cost installed? What should I be looking for?

Any help you can provide is deeply appreciate.

Thanks,
The Elliotts



I really don't know what to do now. I assume that I will call a repair company tomorrow... Sunday... or wait until Monday if I can hold out. We are having 90 degree weather but it may be wiser to wait to Monday.

2.. I plan on calling a few companies out to give me estimates for a new system. How do I know if

The water inside may have been from ice melting on the indoor coil, when this coil ices up the water melting off may not go in the drain but drip into the furnace. If you have been running your air, turn on your heat for 10 to 15 minutes to melt any possible ice on the coil, then restart your a/c and keep an eye on it to be sure the indoor fan is running constantly and does not shut off then watch your refrigerant lines out side to make sure they are not getting frost on them, if you see frost then it is most likely low on refrigerant. Mike

Can this really be as simple as a problem with the contactor? That's what I thought right after he replaced it and the freezing started up. The unit worked fine for the first 24 hours after he replaced the fan motor. Then the next day after he came back to replace the contactor is when the problem with the line freezing happen.

What I noticed first both that time and today is the outside fan just kept running and it never seemed to turn off. Now you have me wondering.

Can anyone else help me with this? Please... Please help!:confused: :confused: :confused:

If he wired it wrong then if may be not shutting off at all, turn it off at the thermostat and go outside and see if it is running or not, let me know, Mike

Dave if you and acetc have cell phones why don't the two of you get on the phone and let him do some checking for you over the phone.
I actually think that you have been taken by a person that does not have much experience and if you call him again he will just replace another part, charge you for the part and labor and you will be in the same fix again.
On one post you said the outside unit kept running after you turn the thermostat off, if that is right sounds like he did a bad wiring job on installing the contactor that you probably didn't need in the first place but he just did not know what else to do.

Can this really be as simple as a problem with the contactor? That's what I thought right after he replaced it and the freezing started up. The unit worked fine for the first 24 hours after he replaced the fan motor. Then the next day after he came back to replace the contactor is when the problem with the line freezing happen.

What I noticed first both that time and today is the outside fan just kept running and it never seemed to turn off. Now you have me wondering.

Can anyone else help me with this? Please.... Please help!:confused: :confused: :confused:
Its true. Its not uncommon for a service tech to leave a jumper wire in place keeping the system running all the time even if the thermostat is not calling for heat or air. But if they had to add 3 lbs of freon you do have a problem. If they can't find the leak have them add die to the system, it does not lie and it will tell you the exact point of the leak or leaks.

You will probley find the leak in the condenser . Check fof oil as stated or put diy in system both are VERY good ways to find the leak. Sometimes if the service man don't know what he is doing or he adds freon into a unit he can overfill with freon and that's not good ,lotS OF COST OR NEW UNIT THESE GUYS ARE TELLING YOU RIGHT SO I'LISTENactec IS TRYING HARD TO LEAD YOU THROUH. HAVE a GOOD DAY . GOOD LUCK .::f.b.e.

Thank you all for the help. Let me tell you what is currently going on...

I shut the system down for an hour. I turned the heat on dor 15 minutes as actec (Mike) suggested. I then checked and nothing appeared frozen. I turned the ac back on. It's been running for about 20 minutes now and it appears to be working fine. I checked the temperature in the air exchange? Unit and it is 68 degrees and it appears to be getting cooler (the inside air is 82-83 degrees so it should take a little while).


To - LetMeTellU - I don't think I said the unit kept running with the thermostat off. That's not true. I think what I said was the ac worked fine right after he replaced the fan motor. Then he said he wanted to come back the next day to replace the contactor (he didn't have the part with him that day). The next day when he came back he replaced the contactor. Several hours later I noticed that the outside and inside units kept running which is very unusal for my system. Then I checked the thermosat and I noticed it had gotten several degrees warmer all of a sudden. I then went outside and saw that the outside pipe was frozen.

The repair guy had me shut the unit off until he came four hours later. By then everything had defrosted. He said nothing appeared wrong with the unit and when I questioned him about the contactor he said there was no way it could have caused the problem. Even though I told him the unit worked fine for 24 hours after he replaced the fan motor. It only had the problem after he replaced the contactor.

He then told me he thought it was low on freon... so he checked and he said it didn't need very much "only 3 lbs" . So he added freon... charged me $20 a lb for the freon and he charged me for another service call.

The system has been working fine for a week. However early today it seemed to me that the unit was constantly running... I should have paid attention then but I didn't until late afternoon. I went to check the thermostat and the temp in the house had gotten quite a bit warmer it went from 77 earlier to 81. I immediately knew this time to go outside and see if the unit had ice... which it did. I shut the ac off and wrote to all of you.

Once again... it's been off long enough to defrost and seems to be cooling the air now. The air handler temp is now 68 degrees and hopefully will continue to go lower. I understand it needs to be around 20 degrees lower than temp in the house. House temp is 82.

I think you all are on the right track. I think there is something wrong with the contactor and it is not shutting off.

Any other suggestions? Who knows... maybe I was never low on freon in the first place... that might expect why the repair guy didn't even suggest looking for a leak. Wouldn't it?

Thanks again to all that are being so helpful!

One more thing. I've asked several times but haven't gotten any specific answers.

I need help if I have to replace the system. How do I determine if I need to replace the inside coil (condensor?? ) and along with the outside compressor or vice versa?

Also, my system is a 2 and half ton unit and my home is 1560 sq ft. Approx. how much should it cost to replace the system and what brand/s should I consider buying? How does an uneducated consumer determine this? What should I know first before buying and what questions should I ask?

Again, any help that any of you can provide would be really really helpful and truly appreciated.

Thanks,

D

Quote}Thank you all for the help. Let me tell you what is currently going on...

I shut the system down for an hour. I turned the heat on dor 15 minutes as actec (Mike) suggested. I then checked and nothing appeared frozen. I turned the ac back on. It's been running for about 20 minutes now and it appears to be working fine. I checked the temperature in the air exchange? Unit and it is 68 degrees and it appears to be getting cooler (the inside air is 82-83 degrees so it should take a little while).


To - LetMeTellU - I don't think I said the unit kept running with the thermostat off. That's not true. I think what I said was the ac worked fine right after he replaced the fan motor. Then he said he wanted to come back the next day to replace the contactor (he didn't have the part with him that day). The next day when he came back he replaced the contactor. Several hours later I noticed that the outside and inside units kept running which is very unusual for my system. Then I checked the thermostat and I noticed it had gotten several degrees warmer all of a sudden. I then went outside and saw that the outside pipe was frozen.

The repair guy had me shut the unit off until he came four hours later. By then everything had defrosted. He said nothing appeared wrong with the unit and when I questioned him about the contactor he said there was no way it could have caused the problem. Even though I told him the unit worked fine for 24 hours after he replaced the fan motor. It only had the problem after he replaced the contactor.

He then told me he thought it was low on freon... so he checked and he said it didn't need very much "only 3 lbs" . So he added freon... charged me $20 a lb for the freon and he charged me for another service call.

The system has been working fine for a week. However early today it seemed to me that the unit was constantly running... I should have paid attention then but I didn't until late afternoon. I went to check the thermostat and the temp in the house had gotten quite a bit warmer it went from 77 earlier to 81. I immediately knew this time to go outside and see if the unit had ice... which it did. I shut the ac off and wrote to all of you.

Once again... it's been off long enough to defrost and seems to be cooling the air now. The air handler temp is now 68 degrees and hopefully will continue to go lower. I understand it needs to be around 20 degrees lower than temp in the house. House temp is 82.

I think you all are on the right track. I think there is something wrong with the contactor and it is not shutting off.

Any other suggestions? Who knows... maybe I was never low on freon in the first place... that might expect why the repair guy didn't even suggest looking for a leak. Wouldn't it?

Thanks again to all that are being so helpful!

Dave I think you have been getting a bad deal from the start, I think you call a tech that did not know what he was doing and when he did do something he did it wrong. Now he has done every thing he has any idea about so to get rid of the problem he wants you to buy a new system.
You ask if you are going to replace the condenser should you replace the inside coil also. Here is my answer: Are you sure that you have a leak? Are you sure where the leak is if you do have one. If you are not sure about the leak why then would you replace one part and not the other.

It would be impossible for me to give you a price for a 2 1/2 ton system without a lot more information. I do know one thing and that is that your wee charged way too much for the freon that you paid for, ask a few people on here what they think the price should be, I would have charged you less than half that much per pound.

Hey Dave, sorry to here your problem[with the contractor]. I think we should take a deep breath and back up the hvac van, if you know what I mean. You stated that you had NO PROBLEMS other than a noisy fan. I think what happen is this guy changed the fan, you said the system appeared to be fine. It was his idea to change the contactor. Now that may have been OK to do, if it neede it, which I don't think it did.. Now the guy either said it needed freon,why, it was working fine other than a noisy fan motor. I think he started to change parts to make a few bucks. I also think he may have overcharged the system and now you are getting a, it kind of feels cool in here, but Im not sure. In the mean time the outside temp goes down a little so the a/c catches up a little, but I think once the temp goes up the unit will cut out. I wouldn't have this idiot come back unless you want him beat up. I would write all your facts down from some knowledgeable people on this site and let the guy know he was wrong. If he wants to make things write, which he should, that's fine. Sorry for the long post, but I went into this field because I got burned also. Like stated before, have a load calc done on your house before you get a new system. Get several estimates. Good luck Victor