I was wondering what people thought about prophets. In the bible it is made known that God revealeth nothing except it be through his servants the prophets. Further, Christ said that he organized his church on prophets, apostles, evangelists, teachers, etc. My question to you is, has God closed the windows of heaven? If not, where are his prophets and apostles? The orginazation of Christ's church had 12 apostles, why do we not see a need for them now? How can God reveal His truth without them? Or are we left alone on this dark earth? Is this not why so many different religions have formed? I just want to know what people think about these questions.

Perhaps there were no 12 apostles to begin with; that would explain a lot of what you are asking.

They were explicitly named and labeled in the bible.

They were explicitly named and labeled in the bible.
Perhaps the bible is a work of fiction?

Obviously this question is for the less phlisophical. :D

There are dozens and dozens of early extant writings outside of the Bible that testify to the names and actions of Christ and his apostles.

Christ founded a Church. A Church, he promised, that the gates of Hell would not prevail against.

He gave his Apostles leadership over the church and they in turn have passed their leadership on - down to today.

So we are not left alone. We still have Him and His Church.

Hi,
We are not alone and have not been left to ourselves; only those who are not Christians are alone.
The Elders and Deacons are alive and well in the Church of Christ; following the teachings of the 12 Apostles; taught by Jesus Christ.
It's very easy for some posts here to question whether they are "fiction". This questioning comes from non-Christians. The Dead Sea Scrolls and the "boat" found in a mountainous area with all the measurements of the Arc are not acknowledged by non-believers.
The New Testament explains it, with the teachings of the Apostles. Miracles do happen, by the Grace of God, as acknowledged by Professionals who can not explain why things happen.
Best wishes, and may God bless you and keep you safe.
fredg

Hi,
We are not alone and have not been left to ourselves; only those who are not Christians are alone.
I'm not alone - I have my family and friends and co-workers and neighbours. Wow, I guess if we aren't part of the group that you are in then we're in the wrong group in your opinion. High school must have been difficult for you.

fredg, and anyone else seeing this:
"only those who are not Christians are alone" is not a teaching of the historic Christian Faith or of the Bible.

fredg, and anyone else seeing this:
"only those who are not Christians are alone" is not a teaching of the historic Christian Faith or of the Bible.
You earn my respect with every post you make.

Rickj said that there are leaders and there is a church. Question: Which church is it? After the death of an apostle they replaced him. Why haven't the 12 apostles been replaced through the ages if His church is still intact?

"...where are his prophets and apostles?"

"The Twelve" were "Foundational Apostles." Once the Foundation of the Gospel of Jesus Christ was laid, there was no need for "foundational apostles." In fact, we will never have another "Twelve" or "foundational apostles." "Other foundations can no man lay than that which is laid" -- which is Christ Jesus!

HOWEVER, the Bible lists some 13-14 additional apostles, who were not of The Twelve. The Apostle Paul was one of them. These apostles were "sent" to preach the Gospel (the foundation that was laid) of Jesus Christ.

An apostle is a "sent one." THUS WE HAVE APOSTLES TODAY! Every minister should be "called" and "sent" by The Holy Spirit!

Where are the apostles today? Most denominational churches do not recognize the office of the Apostle nor the Prophet. However, no where in Scripture do we find authority to remove these two from the Five-fold Ministry, as listed in Ephesians 4:7-16 ("And to some He gave apostles; prophets; evangelists; pastors, and teachers.)


"And to some He gave...." WHAT WAS GIVEN AND TO WHOM GIVEN? The anointed or gifted ones of the Five-fold Ministry were given to the "church" -- the Body of Christ. If a church needs a teacher, God sends a teacher; a pastor, God sends a pastor, etc. However, God has sent apostles and prophets, as well as evangelists, pastors, and teachers, whom the local churches rejected or refused to acknowledge in the ministry. HOWEVER, THE BIBLE IS STILL TRUE!

I know quite a number of ministers who stand in the Office of the Prophet (and they are not the charlatans seen on T.V.).

To stand in the "office" (rather than one who moves only in the Gift of Prophecy) one must be anointed or move in others Gifts as well; e.g. Prophecy; Word of Wisdom; Word of Knowledge; Discerning of Spirits; Tongues, Interpretation of Tongues. The Gifts of Faith, Miracles, and Healings may accompany the Gift just listed, or they may not. The Holy Spirit gives Gifts "severally as He wills."

The Nine Gifts of The Holy Spirit (as listed in I Corinthians 12) are enablements or empowerment to those who operate in the Five-fold Ministry (Ephesians 4:7-16).

Many are gifted with the "Gift of Prophecy" (one of the Nine Gifts of The Holy Spirit) who prophesy only, but do not stand in the Office of the Prophet.

WHERE ARE THE OFFICES OF APOSTLE AND PROPHET TODAY? Outside the door where the "church" has placed them. However, this is contrary to Scripture.

Blessings,

Yo man I don't think your a scammer all I wanted you to do is hack that account I sent you but you isn't replied saying that you have or you isn't hacked it yet :(

SSchultz0956, you ask
"Why haven't the 12 apostles been replaced through the ages if His church is still intact?"

They have been replaced through the ages. Hence the term Apostolic.

Unfortunately "Apostolic" has become a word that many churches use - even ones who have rejected the leadership line of all of the Apostles.

"We believe in one Holy, catholic [with a small "c"... meaning "universal"] and apostolic Church" has been proclaimed in our creed for about 1700 years now.

... and we follow the leadership of the Bishop of Rome, whose line of leadership can be followed back to Peter.

Yes, I'm well aware of all of the non and anti-Catholic arguments, but that's not my point here. Here I am only addressing your particular statement.

I wish true Peace and Blessings to all of you.

We are not alone as God is forever available to us. Jesus told us in the Bible that greater things "could we do" and He is not a liar. We have the ability through the Holy Spirit to do what the apostles did. God's word also tells us that we have not because we ask not or ask amiss. When we trust in God and put our complete faith in Him, we can do all things through Him. Amen and Amen.

MaggieB

That's a good and accurate summary, MaggieB.
I'll third the motion:
Amen.

I'd like to echo Maggie's post, and also expound on it a bit.

The text we're referring to is John 14:12-14--
12 "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do, he will do also; and greater works than these he will do; because I go to the Father.
13 "Whatever you ask in My name, that will I do, so that the Father may be glorified in the Son.
14 "If you ask Me anything in My name, I will do it.

We must also remember that the word "prophet" does NOT denote only the foretelling of future events, even though that's how it's most commonly used today. God used his prophets as human mouthpieces for His desires, wishes, warnings, and judgements. A prophet is someone who speaks the Word of God, whether that word be for the past, now, or the future. Now, there are some guidelines to follow when evaluating a prophet. Are their words true? In other words, do their words conflict with Scripture? If so, then they are not prophets, since God will not contradict Himself. Do their prophecies come to pass without fail? If not, then they are not "foretelling" prophets.

The "in my name" part also needs some clarification. This phrase does not mean uttering a cursory "in Jesus' name" at the end of a prayer. Rather, this is asking for things that are in accordance with the will of God and praying that the will of God be done. To ask in Jesus' name means to ask to do what HE would do, in accordance with his teachings and commandments. "In my name" is more of a lifestyle than part of a petition.

The prophet is still here today, very much alive and well. So why don't we see them or acknowledge them? In my opinion, the church is so wrapped up in its religion that it's losing its faith. Words like "prophet," "apostle," "healing," "deliverance" and so forth make more than a few people nervous. Those words, and everything they connote, threaten the stability and nice, safe, little warm place that many mainline denominations are in.

I'm not alone - I have my family and friends and co-workers and neighbours. Wow, I guess if we aren't part of the group that you are in then we're in the wrong group in your opinion. High school must have been difficult for you.

The group I am referring to are Christians. If one is a Christian, they are never alone... they always have God.
Family, friends, co-workers and neighbors are always greats, but they cannot replace God.
I don't understand why you consider this as "judgemental". Christianity is word wide, and only Christians can understand... that might be what you meant, but I am not sure. I don't mean any of this to be "judgemental", only God can judge, and eventually, will judge all of us.
fredg
PS, My High School was 45 yrs ago. So what has that got to do with anything? My parents were Christians, too, and I grew up in a christian environment. No, those were not bad years for me and not difficult, with God.

Rickj said that there are leaders and there is a church. Question: Which church is it? After the death of an apostle they replaced him. Why haven't the 12 apostles been replaced through the ages if His church is still intact?


Paul said that the apostles were the foundation of the church with Christ as the chief cornerstone, a reference to how a building is constructed. Apostles were replaced for a season to maintain the foundation of the church, but eventually they were not. When that happened, the foundation was not there and the church of Christ collapsed.

Mormons under their prophet Smith say the apostles have been brought back to retsore what was lost, and they have a college of apostles just like the church did in the time of Jesus.

The term 'apostolic' does not mean the existence of apostles, but that their teachings were taught by the apostles of Jesus, It is a claim to succession. As the teachings and doctrines of early Christianity developed into avenues at variance with the teachings of Jeuss and his apostles, the claim to be in the line of descent from apostolic doctrine is hard to substantiate.




MORGANITE


:)

I beg to differ in your implication that the Apostles and/or their successors were not replaced.

They were.

Most, if not all, of their lines of successorship can be traced to a Bishop of the Church today.

To boot, there are many who claim what Joseph Smith did: Mohammed, David Koresh, Mary Baker Eddy, etc, to name a few.

What makes any one of them believable over any of the others?

First of all, no, what the mormons claim is very different to the others. I do know Josephs Smith claim to a restoration is very different from that of others because as Morganite had stated, it's claim to the exact restitution of Christ's established church. Your claim the line has not been cut even to now is arguable. The catholic church claims that a bishop (I forgot his name) replaced Peter. Peter being the "head" of the apostles. If the Bishop replaced him, why is it John the Revalator received the book of revelations. It should have gone to the bishop because the revelations of God were delivered to his apostles to give to the church. Yet in 90's AD John writes this book of Revelations well after the claim that the bishop replaced Peter. Obviously, it wasn't the bishop, it was John. Unfortunately, Morganite is also right that the apostles were all killed (being the unfortunate part of his statement) not allowing for any erepacement. If you read the book of acts, you see a vague process of apostolic succession in that all the apostles gathered together to confer with one another who would be Judas' replacement. This could not have happened according to Foxes book of Martyrs because the apostles were killed too fast. After the "universal" church was then established by Constantine (in the 300's AD) a man of NO Godly authority took the charge to reform the church, this, if you don't accept by previous statement about john and the Bishop, is ample evidence that Constantine had No authority to choose who could be the apostles. This is the cut. The tear in what authority God gave to man to guide his church. So I must emphatically agree with Morganite.

First of all, no, what the mormons claim is very different to the others. I do know Josephs Smith claim to a restoration is very different from that of others b/c as Morganite had stated, it's claim to the exact restitution of Christ's established church. Your claim the the line has not been cut even to now is arguable. The catholic church claims that a bishop (i forgot his name) replaced Peter. Peter being the "head" of the apostles. If the Bishop replaced him, why is it John the Revalator received the book of revelations. It should have gone to the bishop because the revelations of God were delivered to his apostles to give to the church. Yet in 90's AD John writes this book of Revelations well after the claim that the bishop replaced Peter. Obviously, it wasn't the bishop, it was John. Unfortunately, Morganite is also right that the apostles were all killed (being the unfortunate part of his statement) not allowing for any erepacement. If you read the book of acts, you see a vague process of apostolic succession in that all the apostles gathered together to confer with one another who would be Judas' replacement. This could not have happened according to Foxes book of Martyrs because the apostles were killed too fast. After the "universal" church was then established by Constantine (in the 300's AD) a man of NO Godly authority took the charge to reform the church, this, if you don't accept by previous statement about john and the Bishop, is ample evidence that Constantine had No authority to choose who could be the apostles. This is the cut. the tear in what authority God gave to man to guide his church. So i must emphatically agree with Morganite.


Catholics believe Peter to have ben the first bishop of Rome, followed by Clement. Foxe's Book of Martyrs has only limited validity as the early history of Christianity, and is much given to legend.





MORGANITE

:)

The only thing I used Foxes Book of Martyrs is the fact that the apostles were all killed in a reletively small amount of time which most historians agree upon, which is not legend or myth. Further, yes the Catholics do claim Peter to be the first bishop, but my point is on the second bishop. You seem to just be repeating what I said.

I will summarize the reasons for my faith this way.

We have the writings of hundreds of people - Christian and Non-Christian and Anti-Christian - that document the faith of the followers of Christ - starting with the books of the New Testament.

And from there, too, we have no shortage at all of documentation as to what they believed - and how the Church grew.

... right up to today.

I would have one question for followers of a Christian Sect that started during or after the Reformation:

Can you name a Christian who followed "correct doctrine" before about 1400?

If not, then where was Christ's Church then?

Much can be learned about early Christianity from the books of the New Testament and the hundreds of other writings by early leaders of the Church, other Christians, Non-Christians and even Anti-Christians.

Then continuing to read 'up' in time there is more and more.

This is the Historic Christian Faith.

If you want to read some of the early Christian writings of the 1st to 3rd Century, here is a great resource (http://www.newadvent.org/fathers).

The only thing i used Foxes Book of Martyrs is the fact that the apostles were all killed in a reletively small amount of time which most historians agree upon, which is not legend or myth. Further, yes the Catholics do claim Peter to be the first bishop, but my point is on the second bishop. You seem to just be repeating what i said.


The legends of the deaths of many - most - of the apostles are just that: legends, without any historical basis. There is no way of knowing how long they lived, but we can be sure that by AD 150 they had all either been killed or died of natural causes.

The second bishop, if you count Peter as Bishop of Rome, and there is good argument against that point of view, was Clement. If you do not count Peter, then Clement was the first named as bishop.

"Catholics believe Peter to have been the first bishop of Rome, followed by Clement". You must of missed that.


MORGANITE

In Modern Times, Would Not A Prophet Be Someone Who Receives Revelation Knowledge Of God's Word And Shares It With The World?
If This Is True, Then Is Not Evangelist Billy Graham A Prophet Of God's Word? You Got To Remember That God's Word Was Written For All Times, Not Just 6,000 Years Ago To The Present.

In Modern Times, Would Not A Prophet Be Someone Who Receives Revelation Knowlege Of God's Word And Shares It With The World?
If This Is True, Then Is Not Evangelist Billy Graham A Prophet Of God's Word? You Got To Remember That God's Word Was Written For All Times, Not Just 6,000 Years Ago To The Present.


Billy Graham would not fit the Biblical meaning of a prophet. Mr Graham is a teacher, an evangelist, and has not claimed to be a prophet or to receive divine revelation.




MORGANITE

:)

If One Hears The Voice Of God And Shares That Message, To Me He Is A Prophet Of God.

History is full of folks who have made that claim.
How is a person to know if the person's message is really from God?

Is The Message Of God's Love Or Is It A Message Of Hatred?

I Enjoyed Your Answer. You Are Obviously Someone Who Has Been There Before... halleluiah!

Hi,
... the "boat" found in a mountainous area with all the measurements of the Arc are not acknowledged by non-believers.

fredg



I do not believe that any of the 'boats' that have been dug up is the Ark of Noah. Wood rots.



MORGANITE


:)

When It's Been Buried In Ice And Snow And Deprived Of Oxygen For Years And Years. Think About It...

There are still prophets I know but a lot of them are false prophets. I was stunned to realize that one of my favorite ( dang I'm!) TV preachers was a big fat liar fake. But there is nothing anyone can say or do that will ever take away my faith in God away.

There are still prophets i know but alot of them are false prophets. I was stunned to realize that one of my favorite ( dang im!) tv preachers was a big fat liar fake. But there is nothing anyone can say or do that will ever take away my faith in God away.


Prophets do not have to be perfect, and none has been. Nikos Kazantzakis wrote:


"God is a potter. He works with mud."


God uses men and women to fulfil his purposes. They do not always stand up to the scrutiny of those who expect them to be perfect and flawless.


MORGANITE


:)

When It's Been Burried In Ice And Snow And Deprived Of Oxygen For Years And Years. Think About It...

On egroup of 'arkeologists' who say they have found Noah's ark, say that it is 100,000 years old. Do you believe them?




MORGANITE


:)

On egroup of 'arkeologists' who say they have found Noah's ark, say that it is 100,000 years old. Do you believe them?
Good point but the same can be said for all things religious so the point is moot.

When It's Been Burried In Ice And Snow And Deprived Of Oxygen For Years And Years. Think About It...

It would be wonderful if the ark was found. So far it has not been found. Some claims to discovery are dealt with here:



On the snowy cap of Mount Ararat, lodged in ice, lies the shadowy form of a boat the size of a battleship. "Hallelujah,'' cried a triumphant Antonio Palego. ``It's Noah's Ark!''

He says the ark has been preserved in ice for over 4,000 years. A small piece of wood found in the same area by a French explorer friend and authenticated as dating from the time of the flood is physical evidence of his find, he says.
===
Ed Davis’ story of seeing the Ark has been circulated widely among Ark hunters and dismissed by many as the pipe dream of an old man with a big imagination and a faulty memory. [Robin Simons] spent a day talking with this man. This is what he said: "Something happened to me in '43 that's haunted me all my life... "I'm in the 363rd Army Corps of Engineers working out of a base in Hamadan (ancient Ekbatan), Iran. My driver Badi Abas. points to a distant peak that's sometimes visible and says, 'Agri Dagh, my home.' "We can see it clearly on the horizon with its year-round snow cap. 'Mt. Ararat, that's where the Ark landed? I say. He nods.

" Abas points down into a kind of horseshoe crevasse and says, 'That's Noah's Ark.' But I can't see anything. Everything's the same color and texture. Then I see it -- a huge, rectangular, man-made structure partly covered by a talas of ice and rock, lying on its side. At least a hundred feet are clearly visible.
===
When Stephen marked the locations of the anomalies he found on a topographical map of Ararat, I immediately saw they were in the same area that my grandfather indicated to me many years before. However, this does not mesh with Davis' story
====
The Learning Channel broadcast a film July 31, 1995, about the work of Wyatt, Fasold, and John Baumgardner Ph.D. However, as evidence against Noah’s Ark being at Durupinar has mounted and people like Arthur Brandenberger Ph.D. of Ohio State University (1959-1960) and Dr. John Baumgardner of Los Alamos National Laboratories (1980s-1990s) pulled back in their support of the formation, the Durupinar supporters seem to have evolved their view to say now that Durupinar is no longer the actual remains of Noah's Ark where Ron Wyatt stated it contained trainloads of wood inside of the formation, but is an imprint at the location where Noah's Ark stopped after the 500 foot long boat slid down the hill several thousand feet via a geologic flow which amazingly, did not turn the boat over or destroy its shape whatsoever.
====
Murat Avci made it scientifically clear that the Durupinar site is just a freak of nature and nothing special. The title of the presentation was "Geomorphological Surface Shape that looks like Ship Form in Agri" and "The Formation and Mechanics of the great Telceker Earth Flow."
==
According to the Ron Wyatt view, the ark later deteriorated or was scavenged and destroyed. The alleged "anchor" or ‘drogue’ stones fifteen miles away at Kazan are extremely controversial.
==
B.J. Corbin visited the Durupinar site in 1989, 1990, and 1998, and does not believe that it is the remains of Noah's Ark. Corbin viewed similar boat/canoe-shaped formations near Mt. Ararat during helicopter flights, and the formation appears natural and similar to the surroundings and mudflow.
==
Rex Geissler and an archaeologist also visited the site in 2000 and 2001 and were unimpressed by its archaeological significance. The natural qualities of the geologic flow down the length of the hill are obvious. ArcImaging contends that a professional dig of the site would be in order, along with independent, expert analyses of the contents as most interested parties have preconceived biases for or against the site.
=
George Vandeman concluded that "there vere no visible archaeological remains" and that this formation "was a freak of nature and not man-made."
=
Wyatt said the chemical analysis he had done prove that the Durupinar site is a decomposed wooden boat. He says his two lab reports show that the carbon percentages are different within the formation (4.95%) and outside the formation (1.88%) "positively prove it to be composed of very ancient wood and metal" What Wyatt does not tell his readers is that both of these carbon percentages fall within the normal bounds of soil and does not show evidence of wood!
=
From: John Baumgardner <[email protected] >
To: [email protected]
September 26, 1996 7:13 PM

Regarding my position on the Durupinar site, the core drilling we performed in 1988 settled the issue as far as I am concerned--the site is a natural formation, nothing more, produced by a mud slide as mud flowed around a ridge-shaped block of basement rock that is still present inside the resulting boat-shaped form. My very firm conclusions [are] reached after the extensive geophysical investigations we conducted at the site in 1987 and 1988. I am convinced the remains of the Ark must be somewhere else, that such remains are emphatically _not_ associated with this boat-shaped formation. The central claims Wyatt and Fasold have been making about the site are bogus.
=
My reasons for concluding the site has nothing to do with the ark are based on the geophysical surveys my team performed in 1987 together with the core drilling we performed in 1988 which revealed a massive ridge of inside the site and aligned with the site's long axis.

This ridge actually outcrops at the surface over about 40% of the length of the site, and accounts for the stability of the site relative to the surrounding terrain as well as for its distinctive boatlike shape. The rock material that comprises the ridge matches that in nearby outcrops, especially that in the roadcut above the visitor's center. The material Ron claims is petrified wood is igneous rock of basaltic composition. We have analyzed many samples of it here at our laboratory.



MORGANITE


:)

Gigantic Tree Noah Cut Down. I Can't Buy The 100,000 Year Theory Because The Fall Of Adam Was Only 6,000 Years Ago.

I don't care if they found the ark or not. I still believe in God anyway. I have some questions about the bible because I do believe that it was changed around to make certain people happy. Some man obviouslyrewrote the bible then put all this women shall bow to men junk in there and then said it was gods word and now because of him women are beaten, sold, and raped. Then they came along and made sure it said it was okay to have slaves. I will only believe what god tells me so I'm waiting for him to tell me what I need to know. Does anyone have his email address?

When It's Been Burried In Ice And Snow And Deprived Of Oxygen For Years And Years. Think About It...


I have also found this interesting post about the supposed find of the Ark. Like you I am disappointed that the 'finder' has lied.

Let me next reproduce some email I sent to Mr. Jim Pinkoski last May at your request. Mr. Pinkoski operates the 'Museum of God's Treasures' at Gatlinburg, Tennessee, which features the claimed discoveries of Ron Wyatt.

Gary Amirault called me this morning and mentioned the email exchange he has been having with you concerning the character and veracity of Ron Wyatt. He mentioned your remark that the reason I did not support Ron's position that the boat-shaped site did indeed contain the remains of Noah's ark was concern for my job. Gary suggested I contact you directly and set the record straight on this point. My reasons for concluding the site has nothing to do with the ark are based on the geophysical surveys my team performed in 1987 together with the core drilling we performed in 1988 which revealed a massive ridge of inside the site and aligned with the site's long axis. This ridge actually outcrops at the surface over about 40% of the length of the site. The ridge accounts for the stability of the site relative to the surrounding terrain as well as for its distinctive boatlike shape. The rock material that comprises the ridge matches that in nearby outcrops, especially that in the roadcut above the visitor's center. Furthermore, the material Ron claims is petrified wood is nothing but igneous rock of basaltic composition. We have analyzed many samples of it here at our laboratory, and Ron is aware of these analyses.

Ron's assertion that I take the position I do because I am afraid I will lose my job is a falsehood. I am very bold in my creationist convictions here. For example, in February I presented a public lecture entitled "Exposing Evolution as Intellectual Fraud" in our community center. This has since been aired several times on our local cable television station.

I just wanted to make you aware of some of these matters. I could share much more on a variety of claims that Ron continues to make. I encourage you not just to take Ron's word that his claims are honest and true but to make some independent checks yourself.

Mr. Pinkoski shortly thereafter forwarded my email to a friend of his, Joel Davenport, who lives in Graysville, Georgia. Mr. Davenport then sent me a list of questions, which I answered as follows:

Dear Joel,

Let me try to give you some quick answers to your most reasonable questions.

1. Did you witness evidence of the metal rivets in this "igneous rock?"



--none whatsoever.

I have seen pictures of these rivets and wonder, based on what you state above, if they're from another site or from that location. Do you have any comments on that?



--I am almost 100% certain that Ron 'planted' them.

2. As a layman, it sure looks like petrified wood that he found (and I've seen a sample of it in Nashville). Is it your contention that Ron Wyatt fabricated this evidence or that he brought it from another location?



--Yes. I have spent weeks at this site and never once saw any sample that even remotely resembled petrified wood.

3. Are the "beams" (or "rib timbers") which I have seen in the video and on pictures not actual formations there at the site?



--The dark, weather-resistant rocks are genuine parts of the formation. They are of igneous composition. Calling them "beams" or "rib timbers" is something that comes from (Wyatt's) human imagination.

4. Do you believe that the object at that site, which you yourself have tested, is a natural phenomenom, or is it man-made? (I ask you this as an expert in your field.)



--it is the natural product of a geological process (a catastrophic mud slide)

And if so, were there not metal rivets throughout the object?



--absolutely not!

5. Were you misquoted or misrepresented in David Fasold's book which quoted you as testing the brackets and finding them at regular intervals throughout the formation?



--One sample we collected in June of 1985 was mostly iron oxide. But this was the only sample of this kind ever found there. And there was nothing about it to argue that it was not natural, especially given the fact that the underlying rock formation is a strip of igenous seafloor.

6. Was the article in that Fasold quotes in his book just a fabrication of David Fasold, or did you really "using a metal detector, Baumgardner has been able to confirm the existence of metal at regular intervals. Baumgardner says he believes that metal is at the points where these lines intersect, giving rise to the speculation metal was used in the infrastructure of this craft?"



--The method was a type of dowsing that David Fasold introduced and I naively copied. Upon discerning what it was, I forsook it.

Gary, I trust these excerpts of email from the last few months will give the visitors to your web site a better grasp of who is claiming what, regarding this boat-shaped formation. It should be evident that I, as a scientist with a Ph.D. in geophysics but also an earnest Christian, am absolutely convinced the site contains no remains of Noah's Ark. This conclusion was reached after eight trips to the area between 1985 and 1988 and two major geophysical investigations during the summers of 1987 and 1988 in collaboration with Dr. Salih Bayraktutan, a geologist, at Ataturk University in Erzurum, Turkey. In the 1987 effort we surveyed the site with ground penetrating radar that involved 72 separate traverses spaced two meters apart. We also took 1200 magnetometer readings in a detailed magnetometer survey. In addition we made several traverses with an exploration seismograph. In the 1988 effort we drilled four core holes and performed additional seismograph scans. It was the results of the core drilling that revealed, with no room for debate, that a long ridge-shaped block of rock lies along the centerline of the site. Mud flowing around this obstacle is responsible for the almond, or boat-like shape. The dark colored boulders are pieces of the igneous seafloor rocks that happen to underlie the site. The glaring absence of human artifacts of the sort implied by the visitation of multitudes of pilgrims reported by historians like Josephus is a final forceful argument against this being the true resting place of the Ark.

Also from these excerpts it should be clear that I consider Wyatt's misrepresentation of my views as morally wrong and dishonest. But his deception of multitudes of Christians who have not had the opportunity to check his claims firsthand as I have is an even worse crime. I give you permission to use these words of mine to warn people of this snare.

Sincerely,

John Baumgardner
Los Alamos, New Mexico


MORGANITE

Yeah yeah. Again people. What is Gods email address?

"...where are his prophets and apostles?"

"The Twelve" were "Foundational Apostles." Once the Foundation of the Gospel of Jesus Christ was laid, there was no need for "foundational apostles." In fact, we will never have another "Twelve" or "foundational apostles." "Other foundations can no man lay than that which is laid" -- which is Christ Jesus!

HOWEVER, the Bible lists some 13-14 additional apostles, who were not of The Twelve. The Apostle Paul was one of them. These apostles were "sent" to preach the Gospel (the foundation that was laid) of Jesus Christ.
Blessings,


After Judas had lost his place in the twelve, another was chosen to keep the number at 12 (Acts 2).

The purpose and duration of an apostolic ministry is according to St Paul For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Until we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

These conditions have not been met. If St Paul is correct, the apostolic college of twelve special witnesses who were called and ordained by Christ is a continuing necessity until the conditions are met.

Its absence nust be a matter of deepest concern for Christians.



MORGANITE



:)

yeah yeah. again people. What is Gods email address?


You got me there. I don't have a clue. You'll have to tell me.

I can see that to deal with you we are going to have to raise the level of debate. You are one impressive guy!




MORGANITE



:eek:

What Im merely saying is that yes I in my heart believe in God. But has the bible not been rewritten several times and maybe even reworded too? Im not a perfect Know it all christian. If anything I could use some improvement.

Oh and the email address thing? Just a little joke.

Oh and the email address thing? just a little joke.

Awe, heck!

:)

I was wondering what people thought about prophets. In the bible it is made known that God revealeth nothing except it be through his servants the prophets. Further, Christ said that he organized his church on prophets, apostles, evangelists, teachers, etc. My question to you is, has God closed the windows of heaven? If not, where are his prophets and apostles? The orginazation of Christ's church had 12 apostles, why do we not see a need for them now? How can God reveal His truth without them? or are we left alone on this dark earth? Is this not why so many different religions have formed? I just want to know what people think about these questions.

God reveals his truth through his holy spirit:


"And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Counselor to be with you forever - the Spirit of truth. ... Teaches: "... for the Holy Spirit will teach you at that time what you should say." Luke 12:12...


Psalm 143:10
Teach me to do thy will; for thou art my God: thy spirit is good; lead me into the land of uprightness.

Psalm 143:9-11
1 Corinthians 2:13
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

After the Apostles were gone, God continued to dispense his truths via his holy spirit.


But your question seems to be based on the disconinuity that occurred after the apostles died. Did you know that Jesus and the apostles themselves foresaw this and prophesied about this turning away turning from he pure Christian teachings after the they were gone.

Acts 20:29
For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter among you, not sparing the flock.

2 Timothy 4:2-4

2Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine.
3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.



The process had started even before the Apostles fell asleep in death as Paul pointed out:


2 Corinthians 11:13-15 (King James Version)

13For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.




Jesus had prophesied about this turning away by comparing the earth to a field where two kinds of crops are sown.
He tells us that the evil one would sow his seed among the wheat when the men fell asleep.

Jesus gave us the key to understanding what he meant by sleep by referring to death repeatedly as sleep.

John 11:11
These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep.


John 11:14
Then said Jesus unto them plainly, Lazarus is dead.

His Apostles too continued to compare death to sleep.


Acts 7:60
And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep.

Acts 7:59-61 (in Context) Acts 7 (Whole Chapter) 1 Corinthians 15:6
After that, he was seen of above five hundred brethren at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep.

1 Corinthians 15:5-7
Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

1 Corinthians 15:17-19
But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.

1 Thessalonians 4:12-14
For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

The field remains oversewn with tares, false Christians, until the harvest. Then Jesus tells us that during the harvest, angels would separate the wheat from the weeds. This harvest is end times and we are living during this separation time today. In short, the situation that you describe was foreseen by both Jesus and his apostles and the consequences of the situation would be a separation of true followers of Jesus from false followers. So we are simply seeing the fulfillment of prophecy, nothing more--no need for concern. All is proceeding as was foreseen.

Matthew 13:24-26 (King James Version)
King James Version (KJV)

24Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field:
25But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way.



As Jesus himself explained:


36Then Jesus sent the multitude away, and went into the house: and his disciples came unto him, saying, Declare unto us the parable of the tares of the field.
37He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man;
38The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one;
39The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
40As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.

KJV

STONY-

I agree with the "THY WILL BE DONE ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN"

AND yes, if one hears GOD'S voice & shares as in the following scriptures- Then he/she has the gift of prophecy. I don't know why some people have trouble believing that some Christians Spirit is in proper alignment (spirit, soul, body) --
that they DO hear the voice of God!! Holy Moly! I've gotten a message dozens of times, usually in prayer-- but sometimes out of the blue!

I had a pastor in Ft. Lauderdale who had the anointing. I spent 2yrs. Attending that Church. What an experience. My best buddy & me every Sunday...

Anyway, here's the scripture I wanted to post in regards to prophetic question:

1 Corinthians- 13:1- 2
LOVE - And now I will show you the most excellent way. If I speak in the tongues (or languages) of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
1 Corinthians- 14:1-5
Gifts of Prophecy and Tongues - Follow the way of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy. For anyone who spesks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit(or by the Spirit) But everyone who phophesies speaks to men for their strengthening, encouragement and comfort He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies edifies the church. I would like every one of you to speak in tongue, but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified.


Oh well, just another day for you & me in paradise. Even that song by Phil Collins- Has some kind of spiritual value to me... Shall I go on?. Even the best fall down sometimes; even the... something something da da da... you and I collide... :eek:

It is worth recognising what is written in the Apocalypse:


The testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.




M:)RGANITE

You earn my respect with every post you make.

He has respect as well!

I think it is a tough thing being Christ like in a christian world dominated by rules of man and church rather than that of Christ. I often wonder what the real words and standards of Christ were compared to what is the latest "christian trend". So many years, so many minds, so many translations. If only we could for a moment experience the purity of Christ.
---------------------------------------------------------------------

To be blunt, this is why non christians have an issue with Christians. If ever the day comes when the religious world come to terms with the idea and acceptance that whatever anyone believes is OK, will be a major turning point in the lives of humans.

It is OK to believe anything you wish! God has no religion!

There are many "prophets" and holy people of every dogma and spiritual path. You, him, her, me, them, we are all prophets of "God". Maybe if people saw this they wouldnt live in the dark staring at the light.

Hypatia

It is ok to believe anything you wish! God has no religion!


In short, everyone can be a law unto himself.
That means that if you believe in animal torture as part of your religion it's OK. If you believe that gang rape and murder is part of your religion that's swell. If you believe in theft--well, God has no religion so go ahead. Which of course means that you have no God at all. Correct?

Honestly Starman, NO. I believe religion is a crutch for weak minds and unmindful people who choose to skirt responsibility for their actions.

I think for man to dictate and try to spread like disease their own interpretation of a being called God, to insist on the facets of God by order and association the true shame and idocy of mankind.

Who is anyone to label and categorically place such a God? What power does a man truly posess when he tries to prevent others from the God experience by the rule of church or temple?

If I have no God or do who has the right to judge me or condemn me?

To do the mindfull thing does not need religion as a guide. It only needs love and acceptance. Moral value stems not from the bible or other religious book but from the hearts of man. Religion is a tool for those who are too weak to follow their mindful heart. A tool for barbarians to master gentile soceity.

This is my opinion. Religion is crap.

Hypatia

And just to clear something up, you said " That means that if you believe in animal torture as part of your religion it's OK."
Ha! Try looking at the church and reading how many people they have murdered, tourtured, forcefully converted, and so on. How many "witches" were burned in the name of God and religion?

It is ok for the church to torture animals, murder children, burn heretics. They only have to find a scripture in the bible or other text they can reinterpret to suit their needs. If that fails they simply rewrite the bible. King James did it.

Hypatia

And just to clear something up, you said " That means that if you believe in animal torture as part of your religion it's OK."
Ha! Try looking at the church and reading how many people they have murdered, tourtured, forcefully converted, and so on. How many "witches" were burned in the name of God and religion?

It is ok for the church to torture animals, murder children, burn heretics. They only have to find a scripture in the bible or other text they can reinterpret to suit their needs. If that fails they simply rewrite the bible. King James did it.

Hypatia



You are referring to apostates. Only apostates whould go against the teachings of Jesus in reference to loving neighbor as self.

Hypatia,

I am taking the time out of my busy day to respond to you because I feel there is some misunderstanding here.

Notice that the questioner (SShultz) asked a legitimate "believers" question? Well. Then notice how the one with" a professed no religion " comes in with a comment or even a sarcastic question about the Bible being a work of fiction..?. Woe to that! The Devil is real. Those that" buy "into the lies are the lost. And you can see some TRUE BELIEVERS on this thread. Maggie B, another new member, and Solarman (sorry I didn't remember your name right Solarman!) Actually, (if I knew how to" save " my post, I'd go back and get his name right- but of course I really do" bite" when it comes to the computer.)

Anyway, he had a post that was most excellent. It was erased but it explained about Jesus and God. Now, the teachings of Christ are for men (and furthermore, for believing men) And Jesus has to do with the body -- or the Church. Now, for a woman ( or a sister in Christ ) I put my trust in the Almighty One! Hebrews 11:6 - And without faith it is impossible to plese God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

And that is the only cause and effect I'll ever believe in!


The Spirit of the Lord . Hallelujah! :rolleyes:

Honestly Starman, NO. I believe religion is a crutch for weak minds and unmindful people who choose to skirt responsibility for their actions.

I think for man to dictate and try to spread like disease their own interpretation of a being called God, to insist on the facets of God by order and association the true shame and idocy of mankind.

Who is anyone to label and categorically place such a God? What power does a man truly posess when he tries to prevent others from the God experience by the rule of church or temple?

If I have no God or do who has the right to judge me or condemn me?

To do the mindfull thing does not need religion as a guide. It only needs love and acceptance. Moral value stems not from the bible or other religious book but from the hearts of man. Religion is a tool for those who are too weak to follow their mindful heart. A tool for barbarians to master gentile soceity.

This is my opinion. Religion is crap.

Hypatia


Considering your views I can undestand why you have concluded that religion is crap. But the problem seems to be that you are confusing Christianity with apostasy. The two have nothing in common and neither do their adherents. As for judging, no man has a right to judge another man as eternally damned. Tha't's only for God to decide.

Correction to a word in my post- I'm changing "ALMIGHTY ONE" to" ALMIGHTY"

Just keeping Christ in the picture... Lord!

Before we get lost in conversation and more off topic.........I will answer the question presented by SSchultz0956 (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/../members/sschultz0956.html).

"Has God closed the windows of heaven? If not, where are his prophets and apostles? "

I think we are the "windows" of God. Every person, animal, rock, tree etc is a living embodiment, a living experience of God. That which IS. Like appendages we are not detached from the body though we can sometimes feel far from the heart.
We are the prophets, the messengers, the voices of God. God speaks in every action every non action. We only have to see the wisdom in these experiences. We need no burning bush or messiah to know God. We need no labeled savior or person labeled special to hear God.
God is right here. Gods messengers are right here. Recognize your potential and be what you dream. I am that I am.

Hypatia

31 i do not need religion to understand evil or God or the antiGod. And I think all opinions are welcome or are you telling me only "true believers" whatever this dictates are allowed to post their opinion? Because I hold no religion does this imply I am a non believer? You confuse me.
Starman it is my knowledge and research that has taught me religion is crap. I can quote many reasons and give many references but you really dont want to understand my mind.
Let us just agree to disagree.

Hypatia

31 i do not need religion to understand evil or God or the antiGod. And I think all opinions are welcome or are you telling me only "true believers" whatever this dictates are allowed to post their opinion? Because I hold no religion does this imply I am a non believer? You confuse me.
Starman it is my knowledge and research that has taught me religion is crap. I can quote many reasons and give many references but you really dont want to understand my mind.
Let us just agree to disagree.

Hypatia


I appreciate your opinion since it gives us the opportunity to discuss issues.
I agree that you don't necessarily need religion to know when you are doing something wrong. I do want to understand your mind. It is my knowledge and research as well that backs up my views. Holding no religion does mean that you do not believe in certain ways which may be called by a religious name. I agree to disagree.

BTW
What do you put in the tacos? I put ground beef with tomato sauce, lettuce tomatoes and olives on mine. : )

In Chicago they put lettuce and tomatoes on the hot dogs. At least they did many years ago when I lived there.

"
BTW
What do you put in the tacos? I put ground beef with tomato sauce, lettuce tomatoes and olives. : )"

Today was rabbit, spinach, tomato and sauce. We try to only eat what we kill and grow.
I am off for the time being. Housework awaits.

It is great to be able to discuss these issues with you all. The expansion of the mind is a truly special moment shared.

Hypatia

The "Real" Me:
http://img104.imageshack.us/img104/7539/hypatiamuse3zl.gif

Hypatia:

Religion is but a word or two for a particular Faith. I do not profess to be "religious". I believe in Spirituality. Even my pastor has referred to" being spiritual".
And NO, by any means does Christ" shut his doors " Salvation is available to all who want to confess Him and want to make Him Lord of their life.
Then the Holy Spirit comes to reside in You, replacing the "self spirit". - I won't say the demon spirit, but THAT does happen to some!

So, there are three possibilities for one's spirit. Born-again, self
& demon.

Now, I do have to disagree with your" quoting" of psychics.
That, I have learned, (along with astrology, to name one) is from a spirit of witchcraft. It can be removed though, or just confessing & not continuing with that. God forbids that we "worship" any one or any thing but Him. It's not as light as you might think.

See my screen name? Oh yeah it's just something that helps me remember, so I picked it. That's true but it is also the birthday of my firstborn daughter. Halloween. Oct.31.
Thank goodness the pastor's daughter was born on the same day, cause it made me feel much better in a way- like I know I'm safe!
I agree with "cute" costumes and such - because I don't think you can stop the spirit from expressing itself. But some Christians don't even like the least bit of Halloween. I still cut a pumpkin & give candy. It's just an American thing anyway.

So much for me. Now, if you like to wear armor... Picture this-
The Spiritual Protection exemplified in the New Testament in Ephesians 6:12-18-
For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. In addition to all this, take up the shied of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. Take the helmet of salvatio and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God. And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the saints(other believers) NIV(new international version)


So there it is. Got to love it!? :cool:

The issue of Prophets is one that compels many people even the people who claim to know there religion. If you look at facts Jews don't accept Prophets, and neither do Christians. Jews killed The Prophet Isa(Jesus), why? The reason is he was preaching that Allah(god) is one and there is no other god the people were beginning to listen and would follow him and would love him. Now if you read The Bible you will see that what I am saying is true they kept asking him "are you claiming to be the king of the jews?" and he said "NO" so they killed him cause he got to powerful the people loved him. Now Christians don't know what a Prophet is cause they praise one as there god! They praise the Prophet Isa as "the son" of god that is false in the bible the Prophet Isa says look I am a mediator I came to bring the word! I won't take up know more space but that is my thought, the long and short is that The Holy Prophet Mohamad was the seal of all Prophets and that each religion is just a up grade of the last.

Ahmadiyya,

With all due respect, I simply have to disagree with you about prophets. I am not talking about someone who prophesies without discretion (especially in these days) I refer to one who prophesies about something or some scripture to a congregation. It can be past, present or future.
If you read the Christian Bible, there are scriptures to explain how a believer can be given the GIFT of prophecy, among other gifts.

I hope you understand that I don't care what religion you are as long as you are not an extremist.- and add a spin onto your Bible.

Please don't be offended but I have heard that Mohammed was a false prophet- a pediphile and pervert who wrote his own bible.

The God I believe in is just that- GOD. And Isaiah was an endeared prophet for me, as was Jesus.

Christians have many missionaries winning souls for the Lord worldwide today even at this very hour. Some convert from nothing but Voodooism, some from Hindu, and some from Judaism as a FULFILLMENT of their faith. Other faiths too. My dentist looks oriental but she said at one time that she is a Christian.

Thank you for reading my post!

There is no something wrong with you inclonations, If The Holy Prophet Mohammad was a pervert and wrote his own bible and Allah was not on his side then how is it that he beat the christians and jews and took jerualim. I am not offended this is the kind of thing I like to defend my religion, but back on subject. Allah does not mean god like other people say, god is a plural it can be turned into "demi god" or "gods" or "godess" this is one reason why Muslims don't call Allah god Allah can not been made into these words cause it is not a plural, there is no english word for Allah. "demi Allah" or "Allahs" or "Allahess" makes no sense that is why we don't say god it is a plural and we believe that there is one god and he has no partners or equals. Now if you look at history all prophets were attacked they hit The Prophet Isa(jesus) with rocks they called him a perve for washing the hore's foot, there is not a prophet in history who the people just accepted, with being said you are going to hear people say things about all prophets that does not mean they are true and can't be true if these mean are prophets from Allah. There is know need for another prophet in these times cause people are all flowing to one religion and sadly to tell you its Islam! All over the world there are empty churches people are seeing the lies in the dogmas and are looking for truth, I say this again there is only one Holy Quran but 13 different Bibles. Why is that? Cause the bible is false, I am not saying that my religion is better then another mans but I am saying that things are never what they seem in the eyes of the blind, If the dogma has lies or even a little false hood it can not prevale over the truth that is like saying that Allah loves killers. If Allah loves killers then why the hell do we do the right thing?

Ahmadiyya:

Everyone in this country has a right to freedom of religion.
It still doesn't change the fact that Mohammed was a pedophile, a pervert and a murderer. If you think everyone is going to flock to be a Muslim- All I can say is... Good Luck with That!

I have to agree with a previous poster who said you can never be alone if you have God. I don't know about Jesus ,or Mo hammed, or any of the other prophets And I really leave the bibles and Korans and Torah's alone too because all the religions profess a straight line to God, if that were true they wouldn't be fighting because they would be doing God's will instead of their own.:cool:

....The Prophet Isa(jesus) with rocks they called him a perve for washing the hore's foot,....

We know you mean well and are sincere in your beliefs, try to be accurate in your biblical quotations. Jesus didn't wash the woman's foot. It was the woman who washed and anointed Jesus' feet with her tears and ointment. Jesus was criticized for allowing it because in their eyes she was morally tainted and they were lacking in compassion and forgiveness. I know that the point you are trying to make isn't changed by this detail. However, citing the Bible erroneously does cast doubt on your knowledge and your right to comment on it in a critical way. No offense intended-just friendly advice since accuracy is essential to believability.



Luke 7:37-39 (King James Version)

37And, behold, a woman in the city, which was a sinner, when she knew that Jesus sat at meat in the Pharisee's house, brought an alabaster box of ointment,

38And stood at his feet behind him weeping, and began to wash his feet with tears, and did wipe them with the hairs of her head, and kissed his feet, and anointed them with the ointment.

39Now when the Pharisee which had bidden him saw it, he spake within himself, saying, This man, if he were a prophet, would have known who and what manner of woman this is that toucheth him: for she is a sinner.

I have heard that Mohammed was a .... pediphile and pervert

How sad.

No, he was not.

Whoever told you this is a pathetic moron.

... sorry to be so blunt. :o

" Now, I do have to disagree with your" quoting" of psychics.
That, I have learned, (along with astrology, to name one) is from a spirit of witchcraft. It can be removed though, or just confessing & not continuing with that. God forbids that we "worship" any one or any thing but Him. It's not as light as you might think."

This alone tells me the little door to your mind has been closed and locked for a very long time. I do not mean to offend you but I am sure this is slightly offensive. What can I say? The brain washing works!

Hypatia

( On secular T.V.) Oh Rickj - Minister Bill Keller ( also a theologian ) who has a nightly 1 hour program in Florida spoke about it a couple of times. This minister I trust. He will be going nationwide in July @ midnight. You can e-mail him @ his website: www.liveprayer.com. I've also heard it on a Christian forum. The same stuff.


Hypatia- I acquired that knowledge from - Cleansing Stream Ministeries when we attended a cleansing stream seminar for 3 months every Friday in 1999.

The rest I didn't hear. I don't respond to NEGATIVE CRITICISM.

Sshultz,
I Think An Understanding Of Some Vocabulary Is In Order First. Apostles And Desciples Are Two Differing Things. Desciples Are Followers Of Jesus Christ, Those Who Believe In Him. Apostles
On The Other Hand Were The Guys Who Went Out And Built New Churches Based On The Teachings Of Jesus. Prophets Were The "mouthpiece" For God In Old Testament Times. The Quick Answer To Your Question Is, "prophets Are With Us Today." I Know For A Fact My Pastor Has Received Advanced Notice From God Before An Event Took Place. I Don't Consider Him A Prophet, Just A God Fearing Man Who Knows The Voice Of God. Hope This Little Testimony Helps.