Ok, here's the skinny, I tried to save $$ by hiring a handyman plumber, but things just don't look right. In the basement the install would be wetbar, shower, toilet, and lavatory in that order. I'm attaching a picture of what has been done so far, I will accept all complaints because I need to get this done. I've done some reading and that's how I've come to the conclusion that things are not right. I tried to upload the picture but it is to large 388kb is there a way that I can compress it down to 279kb I've tried everything. Well, I will try to explain what I have there is one 2 inch pvc pipe (wetbar sink) that is approximately 26 inches from the exterior wall. It is 12 inches in height. That's picture im00606 first stub is wet bar second stub is shower. The second pis the one I tried to edit. The third picture is showing the toilet and lavatory to the right. The stubs that are shown are drains that are connected under the concrete. I don't see any venting for these pipes. It's been about six months since this work was done. I'm just trying to get this thing done one way or another any input at all would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
vince

I sent you that email, because I could not compress the pictures down to the 297kb to upload this site. I hope you received the pictures as well.
vince

Ok, here's the skinny, I tried to save $$ by hiring a handyman plumber, but things just don't look right. In the basement the install would be wetbar, shower, toilet, and lavatory in that order. I'm attaching a picture of what has been done so far, I will accept all complaints because I need to get this done. I've done some reading and that's how I've come to the conclusion that things are not right. I tried to upload the picture but it is to large 388kb is there a way that I can compress it down to 279kb I've tried everything. Well, I will try to explain what I have there is one 2 inch pvc pipe (wetbar sink) that is approximately 26 inches from the exterior wall. It is 12 inches in height. That's picture im00606 first stub is wet bar second stub is shower. The second pis the one i tried to edit. the third picture is showing the toilet and lavatory to the right. The stubs that are shown are drains that are connected under the concrete. I don't see any venting for these pipes. It's been about six months since this work was done. I'm just trying to get this thing done one way or another any input at all would be greatly appreciated.
thanks,
vince


Where do I start Vince?
With the bar sink raiser that's 26" from a wall when it should have been brought up next to it so it could be hidden by furring out the walls or the stops that are straight stops instead of angle stops and are not even brought out to the correct elevation?
How bout the toilet flange that was glued in a few inches too high or the water supplies for the toilet and lavatory that are positioned wrong.
Unless that 3" vent is carring discharge fromup stairs it's completely unnecessary. About the only thing I can see he did right was to tie the shower drain into the lavatory drain and let the lavatory wet vent the shower. You are aware that you'll have to vent both the lavatory and the bar sink aren't you? My advice? Get a real plumber in to straighten out this abortion before it goes any farther. Ya made a bad boo-boo Vince trying to save a buck and now it's time to "bite the bullet" and make it right. Good luck, Tom

Well, I asked for it, didn't know it at the time. Thanks for your expert advice. The flange has actually been corrected from your previous help. I thought that the stubs would have to come up the exterior wall. And yes the lav and wetbar would have to be vented, I was thinking a horizontal vent. I have more time than money, so I will be trying to correct what you have posted. I know that means jack hammering the concrete floor to correct the stubs.

Hi Vince,

If you plan on doing the work yourself I can furnish you with rough in measurements, ie; distance from floor to center of stubouts, height of supplies etc. If by horizontal vent you mean reventing one fixture back to the other and running one vent out for both, that works for me.
Regards, Tom

Any help at all would be greatly appreciated. The rough in measurements and any other info I could use.

Just keep me informed as to the area you're working and I'll furnish the rough in dimensions for that fixture. Tom

I will be working on the two stubs that are extending from the concrete today. The first one is the wet bar area that is 26 inches from the wall. The other stub (lavatory) is 12 inches from the wall. I know I will have to jack up the concrete and move them closer to the wall. I guess once that's done what supplies would I need? The drain pipe underneath is either a 3 or 4 inch pipe that will need to be extended and then reduced to a 2 inch pipe. Could you help me from there?
vince

Good morning Vince,

Extend the bar sink drain to the wall and turn up with a DWV elbo to 17 1/2" to the center of 2X1 1/2" sanitary tee. A vent will raise out of the tee and revent back into the lavatory vent which will go out through the roof. After you figure how much fur the wall out the supplies stub out at the same elevation on either side of the tee, ( if that's not possible then off to one side will be acceptable), with compression angle stops not the straight stops that are now on there. Do one wall at a time. Your next focus should be on the shower. Let's take this one step at a time. Regards Tom

Thanks, that will get me started.


Ok, I think, I finally figured out how to compress the photos. So, here goes with the photos. The first one is the original one I started with. The second one is the completion of the first one. If, anyone has any input I would appreciate it. I also understand that, I need to move the copper pipes over from the pvc pipe.

I will try this again.

The wet bar drainage looks fine to me.l You may have to reduce the branch of the tee down to 1 1/2" to pick up the trap. you may keep the supplies over to the right of the trap if you bring them in closer and the stops are wrong. You have straight stops and they should be angle stops. Use the existing 1/2" compression nuts and ferrules to install the new stops. Good luck, Tom

Tom, thanks for the help. Here's another picture before I start moving the supply lines. I know I need the angle stops, I've purchased them already. You said that the supply lines could be moved over to the right. Is that the one supply line on the left, that's moved over to the right or is it both supply lines moved over to the right. If it is the latter, then I would have to move them over on the other side of the stud. And my last question is, is there anything that is suppose to cover the top opening of the tee?

"there anything that is suppose to cover the top opening of the tee?"

Gee! I'm glad you asked because that's going to be the main vent for your bathroom group. This vent will run up and out the roof. Move the supplies closer to the trap And change those straight stops for angle stops.
Regards, Tom

I know I'm slower than molasses, but here is the latest picture. Whatever is wrong, let me know and I will correct it.

vince

It looks fine to me. You don't have to move the supplies but you do have to use pipe straps to secure the pipes to the wall so they aren't floating. Now run the vent for your group and complete your job. More questions? I'm as close as a click. Tom

Thanks tom, You can't see the straps in the picture, but they are secured to the stud with straps.
Now, for the million dollar question? I know I have to run the vent pipe, but I don't know to which one. I will take a picture of where I think it should go.

This picture is 20 feet across from the wetbar pipes, and the pipes go upstairs
To the kitchen and bathrom pipes. This is a ranch style home, 1st floor and basement. If there are any other pictures, that you want me to take to get a better idea, let me know. I just need to know which of the pipes to connect the other end of the pvc pipe to.
vince

Good morning Vince,

"I just need to know which of the pipes to connect the other end of the pvc pipe to."

Perhaps you don't need to connect to either of the drain pipes you pictured.
Consider adding a "cheater vent" to the top of the tee.
Check them out at, http://www.studor.com/homeowners.htm
Good luck, Tom

Thanks Tom, That would be perfect. I tried to call this morning (toll free) but no one is in yet. Maybe because of the holiday, but will call later on or call the rep that is closest to me. Just trying to get an idea of the cost, its nowhere on their website.

Hey Vince,
25$ over at E-Bay for a 2"Mini-Vent. Studor Vents are manufactured just north of me up in Clearwater, Fl. Cheers, Tom

Good morning Tom, I purchased the 2" mini vent yesterday. It was off Ebay, thanks for the heads up. It probably won't be in until the middle of next week. I was wondering, if I could get an idea on the shower drain until the vent arrives. If not, I'll wait until the vent is delivered. :cool:
vince

Good morning Vince,

What is it you wish to know about the shower drain? If it's connected to the lavatory drain then it will be wet vented by the lavatory vent. Regards, Tom

Thanks Tom, believe it or not I am at work right now. But I will send, of couse, another photo of the drain. It is too high with the 2 inch drain pipe. So, if you or anyone can give me an expert opinion on it, I will be happy. If, there's nothing else, then I will move on.

This is the picture that I had promised earlier. I also understand from another post that Tom is entertaining tonight :D So, if anyone is willing to jump in and assist me I would really appreciate it. The shower drain that I have goes over the 2 inch pipe that's shown. What I'm trying to do is have the shower drain even with the shower pan. The bottom drain is a 3 or 4 inch drain, I believe it is a 4 inch drain. My thoughts are that I could cut the reducer or the drain pipe to lower the 2 inch pipe. Even if I cut the 2 inch pipe down to the base, I'm still too high for the pan. If anyone has any suggestions, I'm listening. :o

Hi Vince,

My entertainment's doing our dinner dishes so I have a little time to look at your picture. I don't know what that is but I know what it isn't. It isn't a shower raiser. For one thing it hasn't a trap, for another it's connected to what looks like a branch off the sewer main it could be a vent or the plumber could have stubbed up for a shower and left it to you to run a ventfor the shower. But why the increase to a much larger pipe size when all he would have needed was 2" all the way. Very strainge. At first glance it looks like a typical closet stub-up but then it chokes down from 4" to 2" and I can't see the first reason for that. It just plain doesn't make good plumbing sense. The only way I can think of a reason for the abortion like the one you pictured is the plumber screwed the pooch real bad and roughed in for two toilets. When he saw his mistake, PVC being impossible to take apart or change, he reduced it down from the closet bend to 2" and left you with a mystery.
You can make that a shower if cut it back under the floor and reduce to 2" there. Then you can roll up a 2 X 1 1/2 wye or drainage tee and take off a vent. Continue on with a 2" trap and raiser to where ever you wlsh to place the shower. Vince, you got my best guess on this one. She's done with dishes now. Seeee you! Tom

Thanks Tom, this stuff must be in your blood because there's no way I'm leaving my entertainment. :D I've read and reread what you said and now I'm going to think about what you're trying to tell me. I was lost after "cut it back under the floor and reduce to 2" there". So, I'm going to do a little more research on the other parts you have listed. Hey, I'm a little slow with the jargon, but I'll eventually understand.

I'm ready to purchase the items you mentioned.

1 4x2 reducer
1 2x 1 1/2" wye
1 2" p trap
? is the raiser part of the P trap.

The 4 inch pipe will be reduced down to the 2" pipe with the reducer, from the reducer the wye will connect to it. Then a 2 inch pipe extends from there with the trap and raiser. Where I'm lost is what comes out of the 1x 1/2 wye. Just trying to get a handle on this. :confused:

I hope I'm on the right track. There are two more pictures I'm uploading the shower pipe picture is after the wye. The 3" inch pipe is reduced to a 2" inch, then extended with a 2 inch pipe to a 2 inch trap. This a dry fit before I permanently install.

Hey Vince,


Both pictures look great, (the trap raiser is the piece that comes up out of the trap) With one huge omission.
Did you miss the part where I said it must be vented?
"Then you can roll up a 2 X 1 1/2 wye or drainage tee and take off a vent.

The wye will install any where on the 2" drain line and a 1 1/2" vent will extend under the slab to a wall where it will go up the wall and out the roof.
Another way would be to bring it up in a wall a few feet and terminate it with a "cheater vent". A cheater vent is a spring loaded mechanical vent that will take the place of a roof vent. Your layout looks good except that it MUST be vented. If you wish to know more about cheater vents just ask. Regards, Tom

Thanks Tom, I was trying to find the original roughin pictures, but will keep looking. My question on the last picture "shower pipe" There is a wye with a 1 1/2 inch that connects under the slab going over to the wetbar that will have a cheater vent on it. Do I have to vent each one separately or can they share the same vent line? Remember, I purchased the cheater vent for the wetbar. :confused:

Hey Vince,

I have the rough in pictures saved to disk. If you extend the 2"PVC up from the wet bar you may loop the 1 1/2" vent of the shower over to it and tee into that line for both vents using the Studor Vent. Regards, Tom

I was hoping you would say that. Thank you. :D

Good morning Tom, I understand that I'm not the only person that's asking for your expertise. So, I went back to see if I could find the original pictures for the roughin and I found one where I could edit it for clarification. I'm hoping this will help me in moving forward with finishing the project. My drawing skills are not that great, but should help. I'm attaching another picture. I guess where I'm most concern is the wye from the shower over to where the wet bar will be with the cheater vent. Then the 3 inch vent pipe from the basement toilet that ties into the bathroom from upstairs. Finally, the lavatory, where does the venting goes for the lavatory. I'm not sure about vent revent of lavatory. I'm hoping that this will speed things up, so you can answer other posters questions.
vince

Hey Vince,

The picture came out so dark that I couldn't read your notes. Can you lighten it and resend? What In did see worries me. In my last post I mentioned the 1 1`/2" shower vent , but what I see in the picture is a vent off the toilet that didn't need one and a shower that's unvented that has to have one. Remember I said you would have to cut in a 2 X 1 1/2" wye that 's rolled up on a 45 degree angle so it doesn't clog and line a street 45 out of the wye to the wall and up to a cheater vent where the lav and bar sink can revent back into. Don't forget! Configure the vent fittings so that the flow runs from the roof to the base of the vent. If this's a picture of your earlier work beforeyou cut in the shower vent please send me a picture of what you're done so far. Regards. Tom

I'm sorry Tom, I wasn't trying to confuse you. I was trying to show the original roughin with the added work since the beginning roughin. I don't have a picture of the wye that comes out from the shower going over to the wetbar. Maybe I'm not explaining it better, If you have a picture or a diagram maybe I can better understand. Ok, I'm sending this picture that I sent earlier, If there's a wye, that connects over to the wetbar that has a cheater vent on it, would that be OK. I think you want me to put the 2X1 1/2 wye on that 2 inch pipe to go over to the wet bar. But what if the 2 x 1 1/2 wye is connected to the 3 inch pipe where it was reduced to a 2x 1 1/2 inch wye that goes over to the wet bar. If, I have confused further, then let's forget about that part and concentrate on the lavatory next.
thanks,
vince

Hey Vince,

"If there's a wye, that connects over to the wetbar that has a cheater vent on it, would that be ok.
I think you want me to put the 2X1 1/2 wye on that 2 inch pipe to go over to the wet bar. "
I want you to do what I asked you to do and that is to cut in a 2 X 1 1/2" wye that 's rolled up on a 45 degree angle so it doesn't clog in the shower drain and line a street 45 out of the wye to the wall and up to a cheater vent where the lav and bar sink can revent back into. Don't forget! Configure the vent fittings so that the flow runs from the roof to the base of the vent.

But what if the 2 x 1 1/2 wye is connected to the 3 inch pipe where it was reduced to a 2x 1 1/2 inch wye that goes over to the wet bar. If, I have confused further, then let's forget about that part and concentrate on the lavatory next.
Now you've managed to completely confuse me. Let's see. A 2X 1 1/2" wye
that connects to a 3" pipe? (Nice trick if you can do it.) Did you mean a 3 X 3 X 1 1/2" wye that was reduced to a 2 X 1 1/2" wye, (another neat trick).
Let's forget about that before I get a headache teying to figure it out.

What's your question with the lavatory? You can put the cheater vent on any fixture that you choose. Then revent the other fixtures back to it. The shower vent doesn't have to run over next to any thing . Whatever you connect the cheater vent to becomes the vent for the group. The rest then become revents. We ARE talking vents and not drainage aren't we? Yagot my head spinning Vince. I'm going to take a break and walk da dawg. Tpm

Sorry Tom, didn't mean to give you a headache. I think I'm going to stop where I'm at. Thanks for the help.
Vince

Hey Vince,

"Sorry Tom, didn't mean to give you a headache. I think I'm going to stop where I'm at. Thanks for the help.
Vince"

Stop what? Your project or stop asking questions? You're on the right track, all your project needs is a little "tweeking". My headachs's gone so if you have more questions I'm still here. Have a great Sunday! Tom