When I remodeled my upstairs bathroom I tied into the 3"vent with a 3X2X3 vent tee and stubbed a pipe down next to the sewage riser in the basement for future use. Now that I am ready I just dug out a shovel size hole all the way around the drain riser so that I could see how deep it goes before it turns, and which direction it goes, as it leaves the house. The room that I am working in was left as a seperate room for a possible bathroom before I bought the house and the space seems satisfactory.

The house was built in the mid fifties and has cast iron drains. In the ceiling of the basement room are two 4" lead and oakum connected toilet setups with 2" shower and tub washouts connected to the 3" riser with 3X4X3 tees (one on top of the other). Underneath that there is a 3" clean-out(rusted). The 3" pipe continues until about a foot and a half below the floor where it goes into a 4" long radius elbow ending about 2' below floor and then runs diagonally (I speculate) across my room and out of the house. There may be another connection if my 1 1/2" kitchen and laundry sink drain from 45' away ties into it somewhere before it leaves the house I haven't dug that far yet.

My questions are:Will the 2" vent be sufficient for a toilet and shower? Where should I connect the vent? Can I remove the 3" cast iron from the 4" elbow 1 foot below the floor and connect a PVC 4X4X3 Tee and run 4" pipe 2' for the toilet with a 2" with trap about 5' away and tie in as a toilet wash-out and also tie in a 1 1/2" sink drain and the 2"vent (I am pushing that 2" vent aren't I)? The 3" vent above the upstairs toilets goes strait out the roof. I noticed the other sinks have their own vents, what do you think. PS I want to do this correctly but don't want to go through permit/inspections what happens If I don't?

When I remodeled my upstairs bathroom I tied into the 3"vent with a 3X2X3 vent tee and stubbed a pipe down next to the sewage riser in the basement. I just dug out a shovel size hole all the way around the drain so that I could see how deep it goes before it turns and which direction it goes as it leaves the house. The room that I am working in was left as a seperate room for a possible bathroom before I bought the house and the space seems satisfactory. The house was built in the mid fifties and has cast iron. In the ceiling of the basement room are two 4" lead and oakum connected toilet setups with 2" shower and tub washouts connected to the 3" riser with 3X4X3 tees (one on top of the other). Underneath that there is a 3" clean-out(rusted). The 3" pipe continues until about a foot and a half below the floor where it goes into a 4" long radius elbow ending about 2' below floor and then runs diagonally (I speculate) across my room and out of the house unless my 1 1/2" kitchen and laundry sink drain from 45' away ties into it somewhere first. My questions are:Will the 2" vent be sufficient for a toilet and shower? Where should I connect the vent? Can I remove the cast iron from the 4" elbow 1 foot below the floor and run 4" pipe 2' for the toilet run a 2" with trap about 5' and tie in as a toilet wash-out and also tie in a 1 1/2" sink drain (I am pushing that 2" vent aren't I)? The 3" vent above the upstairs toilets goes strait out the roof. I noticed the other sinks have their own vents, what do you think. PS I want to do this correctly but dont want to go through permit/inspections what happens If I don't?



Hi Cookle,
Please define "washout" for me. Drain? Vent? Wet vent? In one sentence you ask if a 2" vent will be sufficient for a toilet, and a shower( yes), yet on down the line you ask about a sink, did you mean lavatory? Sooo, what exactly do you wish to install? Are you going to convert to PVC or stick with cast iron? If cast Iron are you going with lead and oakum joints or No-Hub?
Since you already have a 3" main vent a 2" vent will be fine. I can lay this out for you but first I need more details. We don't use 1 1/2" for drains any more, it's all 2". Your local codes mayforbid any one but a licensed plumber doing the work but in the Tampa Bay Area a homeowner is allowed to do the job themselves. Besides if you do the work yourself who's gonna know? I'll never tell.
" Can I run a 2" with trap about 5' and tie in as a toilet wash-out and also tie in a 1 1/2" sink drain?" There's that " There's that " again and what's a trap doing on it? What's it trapping? We have to get on the same page with terms before I can help. I'll wait on your explainations. Regards, Tom

Sorry about the not knowing the plumber's vernacular, but, a washout is when you connect a shower or Lavatory close to the bend in the toilet to act as an additional wash of the drain besides the flush. I do want to install all three fixtures in my room - Lavatory sink, toilet, and shower. If I connect the 2" vent, the 2" shower, and the 2" Lavatory sink all with 4X2X4 sewage tees to a to a 4" toilet drain all PVC and then connect the 4" toilet drain line to a 4X4X3 which I would connect to 4" cast iron long radius 90 degree elbow which after a few feet leaves my house. I would use a bury-able grade "Fernco" connection to marry the PVC and Cast Iron. Then above ground I would remove the Cast Iron 3" pipe and clean-out plug fitting and replace it with PVC. I will try to leave the Cast Iron connections above and I am hoping the PVC when put in place with another fernco will support the Cast Iron above. Do you think that will work or should I use cast Iron? I will not use lead and don't really want to use Cast Iron because I only have a Sawzall to cut the Cast Iron although I could rent a cutting tool. What do you think I should use?The trap I was talking about was for the shower and would be buried.

Sorry about the not knowing the plumber's vernacular, but, a washout is when you connect a shower or Lavatory close to the bend in the toilet to act as an additional wash of the drain besides the flush. I do want to install all three fixtures in my room - Lavatory sink, toilet, and shower. If I connect the 2" vent, the 2" shower, and the 2" Lavatory sink all with 4X2X4 sewage tees to a to a 4" toilet drain all PVC and then connect the 4" toilet drain line to a 4X4X3 which I would connect to 4" cast iron long radius 90 degree elbow which after a few feet leaves my house. I would use a bury-able grade "Fernco" connection to marry the PVC and Cast Iron. then above ground I would remove the Cast Iron 3" pipe and clean-out plug fitting and replace it with PVC. I will try to leave the Cast Iron connections above and I am hoping the PVC when put in place with another fernco will support the Cast Iron above. Do you think that will work or should I use cast Iron? I will not use lead and don't really want to use Cast Iron because I only have a Sawzall to cut the Cast Iron although I could rent a cutting tool. What do you think I should use?The trap I was talking about was for the shower and would be buried.

Good morning cookie,

Nice try with the " washout" but substituting washout for unvented fixture ain't going to git it! Plus the toilet doesn't need any help draining.
You're confusing me a little more when I attempt to figure you existing set up. Normally you would figure a tees measurements to run like it's sitting in front of you but in plumber language that's not the case.
A tee is measured like this. First the straight run. Then the branch. So a 4" tee with 3" opening in the middle would go down like this, (4X4X3) (Don'tv feel bad, some plumbers have difficulty withthis.
Since I'm not sure how you configured your tees I'm having a little problem trying to visualize your setup.
Having got your first lesson in plumbing 101 we'll now go into vents and revents. I figured out you tied into the 3" vent upstairs with a 3X3X2 tee, (for a vent this tee must be inverted, (turned upside down) and stubbed 2" down to the basement to vent the future basement group. You say the 3" vent goes straight out the roof but is there anything else draining into that 3" vent above where you cut in the 3X3X2" tee?

"If I connect the 2" vent, the 2" shower, and the 2" Lavatory sink all with 4X2X4 sewage tees to a to a 4" toilet drain all PVC and then connect the 4" toilet drain line to a 4X4X3 which I would connect to 4" cast iron long radius 90 degree elbow which after a few feet leaves my house."
I'm not able to visualize the above lay out but I may have a simpler way that will take less fittings and be a lot more legal. But first if you're ploaning in cutting cast iron with a Saws-All lay in a good supply of blades and be prepared to to dull down a lot of them. Cast iron's very hard. We use a set of cast iron snap cutters for pipe that's horizontal and a set of ratchet cutters for vertical pipe. Since you'll be cutting into the horizontal 4" under the floor a set of snap cutters will be all you need.

Try this on for size;
Leave the 4" long sweep elbo, ( see you're learning new terms already) alone and cut a 4" cast iron No-Hub tee into the main to pick up; the toilet. Using No-Hub Bands to tie the tee in to the main. At this time you will convert to 4" PVC using a No-Hub Band.
Now, somewhere along the 4" run from the main to the toilet cut in a PVC 4X2" wye or a combination 4X2" Wye and Eighth bend, (combo, More new words) to pick up the lavatory and in that 2" run to the lavatory cut in a 2" wye or combo to pick up the shower.
Continue the 2" lavatory run to where you wish the vanity or lav to position. Turn up in the wall with a PVC 2" short sweep or DWV elbo and extend up 17 1/2" to the center of a 2X2X1 1/2" tee and stub the branch out to pick up the trap from the lavatory. The top of the tee will connect the PVC coming out of it with a 2" No-Hub Band to the 2" cast iron you've already stubbed down for a vent.
This way your lavatory will be vented and the shower and toilet will be wet vented and everybody will be happy. Sound like a plan? Tom

Tom,
Thanks for the lesson on tees and plumbers language. I understood perfectly what you said and it sounds like a good plan. Thanks!