Islam has only One god, the Jews have only one God.
Why is it that that mainstream Christianity has god the Father, god that Son and god the Holy Spirit and these three gods are really only one god?

Peace and Grace
David

The son and the holy spirit are one in the same. Jesus rose after being sacrificed for our sins and became the holy spirit.

The Christians would just be a sect of Judaism if they didn't have a differentiation in Gods... if they just worshipped GodAlmighty. Despite what Christians say about a trinity, they worship three gods and are viewed by Jews and others as worshipping three gods despite their tortuous explanations to the contrary.

Have it your way, you won't find argument here

Have it your way, you find argument in my end of the stick

I hear the trinity is a catholic thing that was retained by the protestants when they parted from the catholic church. I'm a deist, I don't believe God is a trinity.

The definition of the Trinity is this: God, who is one and unique in his infinite substance or nature, is three really distinct persons, the father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The one and only God is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. God the Father is not God the Son, but generates the Son eternally, as the Son is eternally begotten. The Holy Spirit is neither the Father nor the Son, but a distinct person having his divine nature from the Father and the Son by eternal procession. The three divine persons are co-equal, co-eternal, and consubstantial. So, here we do not have three gods, rather, one God.

John 1:1-3 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. KJV

1 John 5:7 7For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. KJV

I hear the trinity is a catholic thing that was retained by the protestants when they parted from the catholic church. I'm a deist, I don't believe God is a trinity.

Yes, the Catholic Church first formally defined the doctrine of the Trinity, however that doesn't necessarily make it a Catholic thing. There are many doctrines that Catholics and non-catholic Christians hold in common. I don't know too many Protestants that would like having those doctrines called Catholic things.;)

Well it is a matter of what one calls the "catholic church" there was only a christian church in the early church, The bishops of both east and west, what is now know as the catholic and orthodox churches were all involved. At this point and time while both the Catholic and the Orthodox can follow their roots back to these early coucils, these are merely christian and were keep for centuries and the basic tennants of Christianity is fairly widely accepted

The definition of the Trinity is this: God, who is one and unique in his infinite substance or nature, is three really distinct persons, the father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The one and only God is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. God the Father is not God the Son, but generates the Son eternally, as the Son is eternally begotten. The Holy Spirit is neither the Father nor the Son, but a distinct person having his divine nature from the Father and the Son by eternal procession. The three divine persons are co-equal, co-eternal, and consubstantial. So, here we do not have three gods, rather, one God.

John 1:1-3 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. KJV

1 John 5:7 7For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. KJV There are a few verses in the KJV bible that are not found in the Greek manuscripts. 1 John 5:7 is one of them.

The definition of the Trinity is this: God, who is one and unique in his infinite substance or nature, is three really distinct persons, the father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The one and only God is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. God the Father is not God the Son, but generates the Son eternally, as the Son is eternally begotten. The Holy Spirit is neither the Father nor the Son, but a distinct person having his divine nature from the Father and the Son by eternal procession. The three divine persons are co-equal, co-eternal, and consubstantial. So, here we do not have three gods, rather, one God.

John 1:1-3 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. KJV

1 John 5:7 7For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. KJV

Just curious,
Is it not rather confusing, three being One?

The definition of the Trinity is this: God, who is one and unique in his infinite substance or nature, is three really distinct persons, the father, Son, and Holy Spirit. The one and only God is the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. God the Father is not God the Son, but generates the Son eternally, as the Son is eternally begotten. The Holy Spirit is neither the Father nor the Son, but a distinct person having his divine nature from the Father and the Son by eternal procession. The three divine persons are co-equal, co-eternal, and consubstantial. So, here we do not have three gods, rather, one God.

John 1:1-3 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. KJV

1 John 5:7 7For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. KJV




But you still have three persons referred to as God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. And it is the mystery that these three are really one. A mystery that the Bible does not explain but the writings from the Catholic Church explains through many “councils”.
It was in these councils that the debate went back and forth. Between only One God and three gods that equal one god.

Please, can someone explain what Paul in this verse to the followers?
1 Cor 8:6 “But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.”

Peace and Grace
David

There are a few verses in the KJV bible that are not found in the Greek manuscripts. 1 John 5:7 is one of them.

Correct. I quoted the King James Version because many Christians find it to be the most accurate.

Just curious,
is it not rather confusing, three being One?

I understand this can be confusing to some when we look at the nature of God the way we view the rest of the world around us. How could Jesus be both fully man and fully God? Something can’t be two things fully; however if God is almighty, then it is possible. I understand the teaching of the Trinity in light of how God has reviled Himself, and I can accept it.

But you still have three persons referred to as God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. And it is the mystery that these three are really one. A mystery that the Bible does not explain but the writings from the Catholic Church explains through many “councils”.
It was in these councils that the debate went back and forth. Between only One God and three gods that equal one god.

Please, can someone explain what Paul in this verse to the followers?
1 Cor 8:6 “But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.”

Peace and Grace
David

I see this verse as a confession of the previous verse 4. We shall have no idols, for there is only one God. And of course Jesus Christ is Lord.

We can go on and on about the holy trinity, and go around in circles, if you will. Religion, politics are really two topics that cannot be discussed on this forum, and if you started it,1888 then you must know there will be no easy answer.

Wang.. The Catholic Church made it up for political reasons.

we can go on and on about the holy trinity, and go around in circles, if you will. Religion, politics are really two topics that cannot be discussed on this forum, and if you started it,1888 then you must know there will be no easy answer.



I am sorry I was unaware that religion and politics cannot be discussed on this forum. I will have to review the rules I guess.

I must say that at least the people on this forum, or at least the ones who have commented to my post, have been very respectful towards each other, and this is something that most forums are greatly lacking.
While I did start it what is wrong with this discussion?
To bring one thoughts and beliefs to the table and to openly talk about them promotes growth and understanding.

However, if I must stop the discussion then I need to know how to stop it.
Could you please advise me?

Peace and Grace
David

You are mistaken Christianity has only one God, however he manifests himself to us in three personages. The nature of God is for us to wonder, not for us to attempt to have God conform to our ideas or the ideas of some illiterate desert prophet, so we take what he has revealed to us about himself. Firstly he is the creator, the eternal Father, secondly he is the saviour, the Christ, thirdly he is the Holy Spirit, our comforter and counsellor.

What we have discerned is that throughout history God has provided us with an unfording revelation of himself which is absolutely consistent. Any inconsistancy is not of God, so therefore the truth can only be as God has presented it. He presented it first to the Jews through Moses and then to the gentiles through Jesus there is no need of a third revelation which does not conform to the earlier revelations.

I am sorry I was unaware that religion and politics cannot be discussed on this forum. I will have to review the rules I guess.

I must say that at least the people on this forum, or at least the ones who have commented to my post, have been very respectful towards each other, and this is something that most forums are greatly lacking.
While I did start it what is wrong with this discussion?
To bring one thoughts and beliefs to the table and to openly talk about them promotes growth and understanding.

However, if I must stop the discussion then I need to know how to stop it.
Could you please advise me?

Peace and Grace
DavidDiscussion of religion to my knowledge is not against the rules, after all they have a section for religion & spirituality. They probably have a section for politics too. I don't know about that.

Just curious,
is it not rather confusing, three being One?

The same question could be asked about man. How can we be body, soul and spirit and yet one person - but it is true. There are many things that we do not understand and yet we know that the Bible is true.

The same question could be asked about man. How can we be body, soul and spirit and yet one person - but it is true. There are many things that we do not understand and yet we know that the Bible is true.

I understand the human being having a body and a soul,but as I do not believe God to be human, it is confusing when it is said that He is "three and One".
I believe He is just One.

About the Bible being true, I believe the book that was revealed to Jesus(alaihi salaam) was the word of the Alimghty,but I do not believe today's bible's is exactly the same book,which existed then.

I believe that the human has no separate spirit or soul, they are just part of the body and can be explained in terms of the body. I don't see how you could say "it is true"

The same question could be asked about man. How can we be body, soul and spirit and yet one person - but it is true. There are many things that we do not understand and yet we know that the Bible is true.

The Bible states in Gen Chapter 1 that when God created man he formed man out of the earth and then God breathed the breath of life into man and at that point we became a “Living Soul”. I do not think that we have a soul but that we are a living soul as long as we have the breath of life from God in us.

The three gods that somehow equal this one god I cannot find in the Bible. Where did it come from?

Peace and Grace
David

The Bible states in Gen Chapter 1 that when God created man he formed man out of the earth and then God breathed the breath of life into man and at that point we became a “Living Soul”. I do not think that we have a soul but that we are a living soul as long as we have the breath of life from God in us.

The three gods that somehow equal this one god I cannot find in the Bible. Where did it come from?

Peace and Grace
David


Whether you believe you have a soul or not does not change the reality that we see in scripture.

Where do you get "3 gods" from. There is only one God, but three persons.

I understand the human being having a body and a soul,but as I do not believe God to be human, it is confusing when it is said that He is "three and One".
I believe He is just One.

God is not human, but we are made in God's image - we have three parts, and He has three parts, but He, being infinite, is much greater than us.


About the Bible being true, I believe the book that was revealed to Jesus(alaihi salaam) was the word of the Alimghty,but I do not believe today's bible's is exactly the same book,which existed then.

What is the evidence for your belief that the Bible has changed?

God is not human, but we are made in God's image - we have three parts, and He has three parts, but He, being infinite, is much greater than us.



What is the evidence for your belief that the Bible has changed?

Do you believe that the present Bible is the same as the original book?

I do not believe in the trinity either.

Whether you believe you have a soul or not does not change the reality that we see in scripture.

Where do you get "3 gods" from. There is only one God, but three persons.
Those who believe in the “trinity” say that there is one god. However it is plain to see in their writings and their song etc, the terminology states “god the father, god the son and god the holy spirit”.

They say that these three person that are all called god are really God in three parts / persons / personalities or something to that fact.

If all three are god then when Christ called out while on the cross “my God, my God why hast thou forsaken me, which of the other two gods was he referring too? It could not be himself for he was on the cross.

While talking to Mary after His resurrection why did Christ tell her that he was going to see His Father our Father, HIS GOD our God?
I mean after all if it takes the three persons to make this One god and Christ was not there to with the other two gods to make up this one god. If it takes the three to make this one god who was Christ calling God?

See at this time according to the “trinity” statement that it takes the three to make one God, a part of the three was missing and therefore you only had two persons (who are both called god’ there to make up this three god. How can that be?
Three make one but if one is not there then you have two that make one.


This is just to confusing Why not just believe the Bible when it states that there is only One True God the Father and that Christ is the Son of God and the He inherited the name of His Father. All of this is scriptural and I will be glad to provide to any that are interested.


Peace and Grace

David

Do you believe that the present Bible is the same as the original book?

I do not believe in the trinity either.

You made the claim that it wasn't the same book - let's hear you defend that claim.

Those who believe in the “trinity” say that there is one god. However it is plain to see in their writings and their song etc, the terminology states “god the father, god the son and god the holy spirit”.

They say that these three person that are all called god are really God in three parts / persons / personalities or something to that fact.

If all three are god then when Christ called out while on the cross “my God, my God why hast thou forsaken me, which of the other two gods was he referring too? It could not be himself for he was on the cross.

No it was not Himself - it was God the Father. Keep in mind that when Jesus (God the Son) came to earth as a man (1 Tim 3:16), He willingly submitted Himself to The Father, and Humbled himself to be abedient as a man. To do so, it was essential that He be obedient to the Father as God, or as a man, He would have sinned.

This also explains all the other references that you give in your argument.


See at this time according to the “trinity” statement that it takes the three to make one God, a part of the three was missing and therefore you only had two persons (who are both called god’ there to make up this three god. How can that be?

No one was missing - who was missing and where do you find a scripture reference saying that one was missing?


This is just to confusing Why not just believe the Bible when it states that there is only One True God the Father and that Christ is the Son of God and the He inherited the name of His Father. All of this is scriptural and I will be glad to provide to any that are interested.

I do believe the Bible. Do you? Who are the three persons in Is 48:16-17? Please answer that if you can.

Being a deist I don't believe any of the tenets of the revealed religions (Judaism, Christianity, & Islam). I believe that whatever something created the universe, which I personally call God, is one entity, not three or three in one.

Being a deist I don't believe any of the tenets of the revealed religions (Judaism, Christianity, & Islam). I believe that whatever something created the universe, which I personally call God, is one entity, not three or three in one.

Islam and Judaism (I think) do not follow a three in one God or God being three,
It is monotheistic.
I as a muslim believe in One Almighty God as the Creator of all that exists in this universe and beyond.

Below is an excerpt from the Anthanasian Creed, an elaborate definition of the doctrine. I have found that when discussing the Trinity with people, we may not be under the same understanding of what the Trinity is. Then more confusion will fallow as a result. This is my understanding of the Trinity:

For there is one Person of the Father, another of the Son, and another of the Holy Spirit. But the godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, is all one, the glory equal, the majesty co-eternal.
Such as the Father is, such is the Son, and such is the Holy Spirit. The Father uncreated, the Son uncreated, and the Holy Spirit uncreated. The Father incomprehensible, the Son incomprehensible, and the Holy Spirit incomprehensible.
The Father eternal, the Son eternal, and the Holy Spirit eternal. And yet they are not three eternals, but one Eternal.
As also there are not three incomprehensibles, nor three uncreated, but one Uncreated, and one Incomprehensible. So likewise the Father is Almighty, the Son Almighty, and the Holy Spirit Almighty. And yet they are not three almighties, but one Almighty.
So the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God. And yet they are not three gods, but one God.
So likewise the Father is Lord, the Son Lord, and the Holy Spirit Lord. And yet not three lords, but one Lord.
For as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge each Person by Himself to be both God and Lord, so we are also forbidden by the catholic religion to say that there are three gods or three lords.
The Father is made of none, neither created, nor begotten. The Son is of the Father alone, not made, nor created, but begotten. The Holy Spirit is of the Father, neither made, nor created, nor begotten, but proceeding.
So there is one Father, not three fathers; one Son, not three sons; one Holy Spirit, not three holy spirits.
And in the Trinity none is before or after another; none is greater or less than another, but all three Persons are co-eternal together and co-equal.

Islam and Judaism (I think) do not follow a three in one God or God being three,
it is monotheistic.
I as a muslim believe in One Almighty God as the Creator of all that exists in this universe and beyond. No, Judaism & Islam do not believe in the trinity. But both believe in prophets & miracles. Both believe their holy book is inspired by a deity. Deists believe none of this.

No, Judaism & Islam do not believe in the trinity. But both believe in prophets & miracles. Both believe their holy book is inspired by a deity. Deists believe none of this.

Yes we muslims do believe in divinely inspired books,
That is books revealed to different Prophets at different time,but we believe the Quran as the final revelation and Muhammad (peace be upon him)as the last Prophet among many.

No one was missing - who was missing and where do you find a scripture reference saying that one was missing?


I was not using scripture; I was using my thoughts. It just seemed that if Christ was not in Heaven being He is suppose to be one of the three gods and he was calling out to God. Then this three in one god was missing one of its members.


I do believe the Bible. Do you? Who are the three persons in Is 48:16-17? Please answer that if you can.

Isa. 48:16-17 “Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.
Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.”
This is speaking of God and His Spirit as well as the Son of God, all three of these I believe in.
What I do not accept as scriptural is that they are all three gods and that they all three equal the one true god. This is the issue.

If Christ is “god the son” give me one text that states this phrase?
Also if Christ is god then explain why being god would he be given power, glory, honor etc. I mean God according to the scriptures is all-powerful, all knowing etc. yet Christ was given things, why would he be given anything?

Also could someone give me scripture verses showing where we are to worship and honor the Holy Spirit?

These three gods that are really one god goes does not make any sense.

Peace and Grace
David

Being a deist I don't believe any of the tenets of the revealed religions (Judaism, Christianity, & Islam). I believe that whatever something created the universe, which I personally call God, is one entity, not three or three in one.


While I do believe in the Bible, I can agree with you that there is One God. And that He created everything.

Peace and Grace
David

Islam and Judaism (I think) do not follow a three in one God or God being three,
it is monotheistic.
I as a muslim believe in One Almighty God as the Creator of all that exists in this universe and beyond.


While I am a Christian some may find it a hard thing to believe but Muslim's do have this correct. There is only One God and He is not in three parts / persons.

Could this be part of the issue between Christians and Muslims?


Peace and Grace
David

While I am a Christian some may find it a hard thing to believe but Muslim's do have this correct. There is only One God and He is not in three parts / persons.

Could this be part of the issue between Christians and Muslims?


Peace and Grace
David

David,
It is one of the topmost issues.
The other is that we do not believe Jesus(peace be upon him) to be the Son of God either.

The thing is that Muslims do not believe Islam began in Arabia with Muhammad (peace be upon him).Islam was the original religion since Adam.

Muslim believes in all the Messengers and Prophets of God without any discrimination. All messengers were mortals, human beings, endowed with Divine revelations and appointed by God to teach mankind.
The Holy Quran mentions the names of 25 messengers and prophets and states that there are others. These include Noah, Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad. Their message is the same and it is Islam and it came from One and the Same Source; God, and it is to submit to His will and to obey His law; i.e. to become a Muslim.

Other issues include that Christians believe Jesus(peace be upon him) was crucified, which we do not believe.
We believe that he was taken up to God and he will descend at the end times to establish the truth and live and die just like all humans.

I was not using scripture; I was using my thoughts. It just seemed that if Christ was not in Heaven being He is suppose to be one of the three gods and he was calling out to God. Then this three in one god was missing one of its members.



Isa. 48:16-17 “Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.
Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.”
This is speaking of God and His Spirit as well as the Son of God, all three of these I believe in.
What I do not accept as scriptural is that they are all three gods and that they all three equal the one true god. This is the issue.

If Christ is “god the son” give me one text that states this phrase?
Also if Christ is god then explain why being god would he be given power, glory, honor etc.? I mean God according to the scriptures is all-powerful, all knowing etc. yet Christ was given things, why would he be given anything?

Also could someone give me scripture verses showing where we are to worship and honor the Holy Spirit?

These three gods that are really one god goes does not make any sense.

Peace and Grace
David
Let me be clear. The Trinitarian view is that there is one God, not three separate gods. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are of the same substance.

1 Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

John 1:1-3 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

My understanding of these verses is that God became man. This man is Christ. To me Christ is the Word made flesh.

I was not using scripture; I was using my thoughts. It just seemed that if Christ was not in Heaven being He is suppose to be one of the three gods and he was calling out to God. Then this three in one god was missing one of its members.

By continually claiming there to be 3 gods in the trinity when it has been explained to you many times indicates that you do not understand and apparently are unwilling to accept what the doctrine of the trinity actually is. This is what appears to be causing so much of the mis-understanding - you are arguing against the Mormon perspective of God, which is that the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit are 3 gods. That is not the Christian viewpoint.

That is why you think something was missing when those who understand what scripture says about the trinity relaize that nothing was missing. If you want to argue the "missing person" theory, find a Mormon to argue this with.


Isa. 48:16-17 “Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.
Thus saith the LORD, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the LORD thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.”
This is speaking of God and His Spirit as well as the Son of God, all three of these I believe in.
What I do not accept as scriptural is that they are all three gods and that they all three equal the one true god. This is the issue.

If Christ is “god the son” give me one text that states this phrase?
Also if Christ is god then explain why being god would he be given power, glory, honor etc. I mean God according to the scriptures is all-powerful, all knowing etc. yet Christ was given things, why would he be given anything?

I asked if you could tell me who the three persons are in this passage. Will you answer that, I'd be happy to move on and discuss other points. I believe that this will help you to understand that the doctrine of the trinity is in the Bible.

Please answer that question.