I had a theory he was bipolar a long time ago, but I didn't know how right I was, until I heard his story as I got to know him, and began to study what "bipolar" means online.

He has all the classic symptoms, the rages, jealousies, sleeping patterns, and he's hallucinating. He has beliefs about me that are borne from his insecurity, but are not true at all. He thinks that I'm conducting a phone sex business when Im not around him!

One day he's apologetic and nice and generous, and the next day (because I didn't call soon enough in his mind or another reason) he's accusing me of chatting & flirting and cybering other men online.

Truth is, I abandoned all my online friends, told them Im dating so its no secret, and I never cybered them to begin with. I have done everything right, and IM STILL being damned! Im being accused of things Im not doing! Its driving me crazy. I fight with him, and he has me screaming after I listen to him scream at me for days. He's pushed me over the edge. I hate going down to his level and now I refuse to. If I knew more people who have had experiences with bipolars, maybe I could gain some leverage and look at all of this from a new angle, so as not to be so upset about it.

Mostly I wish to learn HOW TO TALK TO HIM. I realize that he really doesn't need much of a reason to get triggered, but perhaps there's a way to deal with him without it getting too out of control.

I asked him and then demanded that he see a doctor, but he believes he doesn't have a problem. He just says "You go see a doctor". Which sounds stupid and childish.

I explained that I am not making stuff up and accusing him of it as he is. I explain things to him until he grows quiet and then says 'You know... this is depressing, I just want to have a good night, and I feel like Im being tortured".

Thats when I say "HOW DO YOU THINK I FEEL? This isn't about me torturing you, this is me trying to make you realize the severity of this situation and how you can't handle it alone and never could and you must do something about it or we are never going to know each other in the future because all hope will be lost".

He says "So you don't want to see me anymore? " I say "NO that's not what I'm saying, I'm saying if you don't get help, you will leave me no choice. It's obvious you are going in cycles with your emotions, up and down and I'm along for the ride. I don't want to be part of that ride!".

All I am telling him, is to seek help. I say "What's so hard about swallowing a pill if it will make you more stable right now?". He says he doesn't want to be on pills. I outline the new findings on bipolarism, how bipolars live 7 yrs less than your average person who doesn't have bipolar disorder.. how bipolarism actually shrinks the brain, and kills brain cells, and how he should do something before its too late.

He makes light of the times when he rages. Sometimes he even imitates himself when he was mad. Recently I was going to meet him in a park to go hiking, and he got upset about something that was nothing to get upset about, met me at the park, and wrenched my car door open.. I thought it was some wild man rapist. He begins to scream at the top of his lungs to 'get out of the car, this is a stolen car!" and calling me names in front of stunned people who are in the park playing frisbee and just gaping at us.

He was so loud and I was so embarrassed, I just vanished into the thickeness of the park until no one could see me. Hearing one guy actually LAUGH at this fiasco.

I stayed in the park for a while, and realized that I didn't have my car. I got tons of phone calls from him, screaming that he needed to give me a ride home. I said "don't bother".. he was the last person I wanted to see!

I walked 4 miles home, it took me 3 1/2 hours to do so, but at least I didn't have to have him pick me up.

I can't take it anymore. When I think of him now, I flash on things we used to do, where we'd go to eat, how funny he is when he's "Normal".. how we went to clubs, and joked and had good times. I feel so sad for him. I feel so bad for him because I know he has a disease.

However when I urge him to go to a doctor, he will not budge. I ask him "What part of this do you really believe is normal?"

I don't know what to do or say to him to convince him to go.

Now Im beginning to feel that not marching into a doctors office with him and just being around him at all, is making me an enabler, because I realize how sick he is. I just can't ignore it like he's doing.

I feel really upset about this and incredibly sorry for him. I can't imagine what it must be like to have your brain moving so fast as it is with him. I can't imagine or relate to it, nor would I want to. He seems to think he can function the way he is, but I ask him "How can you when you can't get along with me because you're always raging? You call that managing your anger problem?".

Im all logical and rational and he's just inane and flippant, or he'll hang up and pretend Im attacking him by telling him its high time for him to see a counselor. Years ago before I met him he went to a therapist and unfortunately he found a really inept one, one that tossed some lithium his way and basically told him to "call him in the morning".

The lithium & other drugs he was prescribed played havoc with his mind and he was really turned off to meds. Since that bad experience he's not wanted to try it again. This is the danger with counselors or doctors who rush you through a session, throw some meds at you, and don't address all your problems and make light of the situation. If he had had a good doctor, I wouldn't be tortured by this person now.

Either way, suggestions anyone?

Simple in my opinion,

1) stay with him and get him help regardless of his opinion - because he does need it
Or
2) call it off.

A friend of mine's sister is bipolar and she has some medicine she takes and it really helps - although she still has her moments of course.

That's my view anyway :)

Regards,
Sebastien

simple in my opinion,

1) stay with him and get him help regardless of his opinion - because he does need it
or
2) call it off.

a friend of mine's sister is bipolar and she has some medicine she takes and it really helps - although she still has her moments of course.

thats my view anyway :)

regards,
sebastien

How do you know when enough is enough?

What kind of meds is your friends sister on? Did you know what she was like without the meds and after? Is she dramatically changed or only slightly stable?

I feel VERY responsible and bad only so far as how aware I am that he is sick, and just abandoning him even as a friend would be a heartless thing to do. I cannot in my mind just leave and not help him along his way because I know that bipolarism gets worse when left untreated. I wouldn't feel good knowing I didn't at least help. Its not about not wanting him to be with someone else. I really care about his welfare.

When he asks me what I want from him the most, I have said more than once "I want you to have peace of mind, more than anything else".

Well I know how you feel when you say you feel sorry for him, I felt sorry for mine for 19yrs and he also had some bad sife effects from meds,, but please for your safety start feeling bad for yourself,, don't bring kids into this its not right on them... its not up to you to help me,, I have been trying to help mine for way too long,, and it doesn't matter what you do for them its never enough,, your young go enjoy your life,, we all feel bad for the people we love when they are sick but after a while its going to make you sick and he will not be there to help u, I am not a mean person it use to break my heart to see him go though depression and after a while there is nothing you can do to make it better, you can bring a horse to water but you can't make him drink it!!
Think f yourself,, you need to have fun in your life you shouldn't have to worry if you say the wrong thing your going to get into a fight,,

How do you know when enough is enough?

What kind of meds is your friends sister on? Did you know what she was like without the meds and after? Is she dramatically changed or only slightly stable?

I feel VERY responsible and bad only so far as how aware I am that he is sick, and just abandoning him even as a friend would be a heartless thing to do. I cannot in my mind just leave and not help him along his way because I know that bipolarism gets worse when left untreated. I wouldn't feel good knowing I didn't at least help. Its not about not wanting him to be with someone else. I really care about his welfare.

When he asks me what I want from him the most, I have said more than once "I want you to have peace of mind, more than anything else".

Everyone has their own limit, I can't tell you when enough is enough - you will know that by yourself, you will realise that the point in time has come when you can't take it anymore.

I don't know what meds she is on, but I can find out and let you know. Remember there are varying degrees on bipolar, she had similar symptoms though. Yes I knew what she was like, I've known her since she was about 13 (she's 20 now). So I noticed when she was different.

She changed a lot, except on her periods she has real trouble then. But as she got help early on in life, the meds and counsilling and all have change her dramatically, she's doing a lot better.

The problem comes in that your guy doesn't want help, he is denying it in himself that anything is wrong and that nothing will help. There is where you need to put your foot down.

You feel responsible because you took it upon yourself, and like you said, you can't just abandon him.

Go see a professional (without him) and ask them what you should do, describe symptoms and everything. They should be able to tell you how to handle him.

Regards,
Sebastien

Loving someone with bipolar disorder will put you through a wringer, that's for sure, and I speak from experience. In a way it's a lot like alcoholism, except that all they have to do to get "drunk" is DON'T take their meds. And like alcoholism, until THEY decide they need help, you can't do anything for them. And like alcoholism, it usually takes several tries before they finally accept and truly believe that they can and must control their illness.

As to the question of how much is enough, only you know that. All I would say is that until he accepts his need for help, you can expect more of the same, and you can't love him enough to fix it for him. For myself, I had to cut all contact and move on. I truly wish you well.

Loving someone with bipolar disorder will put you through a wringer, that's for sure, and I speak from experience. In a way it's a lot like alcoholism, except that all they have to do to get "drunk" is DON'T take their meds. And like alcoholism, until THEY decide they need help, you can't do anything for them. And like alcoholism, it usually takes several tries before they finally accept and truly believe that they can and must control their illness.

As to the question of how much is enough, only you know that. All I would say is that until he accepts his need for help, you can expect more of the same, and you can't love him enough to fix it for him. For myself, I had to cut all contact and move on. I truly wish you well.
Thanks

He's not my Boyfriend, he's someone Ive known, a friend for 2 yrs, but someone who Ive been dating, In actuality I left him last Sept. because of his porn and pot addiction. I was fine and went on with my life, but he kept attacking me on a particular forum where I met him, and spreading lies, telling people I was 300 lbs so that no man would get near me, and other lies that others picked up and had fun with. The people on those forums need meds themselves and are far worse than anyone Ive met on mental health forums!

Well he wrote a "truce" thread and that was the first time in 9 months away from him that he said something nice.. I thought he had rethought his ways. I talked to him and he said he had changed, so that's why I drove out to see him, and he was scared I think at first to see me.. but when I finally saw him again face to face it was like no time had passed.

He also immediately assumed it was "back on" simply because I was there standing in his livingroom. I began to socialize with him because that was fun.. and quickly we got involved. Soon I realized he was worse than he was last year.

Just tonight I had a phone conversation with him, and he seemed so normal. I asked him "Why can't you be this way all the time?". It was so pleasant and light and funny. He said "What do you mean?" I explained some more, and he began to say "Now that just pisses me off, you're making me mad". I explained "Im not making you mad, you are".. he keeps placing the BLAME on me! The blame for why he gets "pissed" and then rages.. its never his fault, its someone else.

I think he believes this because if he hadn't received the "Trigger" he would never get angry.. but anything can trigger him when he's not imagining something's happening that he deems bad that triggers him to rage at me.

Ive never done anything wrong.. I was just upset.. he hung up on me, I called and explained this is my problem with him, the rage, the up and down.

Who the hell wants this??

So I sent him a short email just now and said that I am getting off this roller coaster and absolutely will NOT communicate him, receive his calls, answer emails, etc. while he is angry. It seems to just keep his anger going. I don't want anything to do with it! I am NOT creating it, I don't even want it, I don't remember signing up to have a friend or lover that is a rageaholic.

Im beginning to wonder if Im enabling him.. yes, just like an alcoholic... knowing how sick he is, and then he expects me NOT TO TALK ABOUT HIS PROBLEM.

How can he get pissed off just because I wanted to talk about it? I said "Nows the time to talk about it, while you're lucid and calm, not while you're raging".

He doesn't get it, he just doesn't get it.

Now I can't talk about it when he's upset or when he's calm? When would he ever break down and get a hold of a therapist anyway?

My leaving him last year for 9 months didn't make him go to a therapist, he just kept attacking me on a board because he was jealous of the other men I talked to.

Where do you go to find a good therapist for bipolar people and the people who are dealing with them? Please help.

This is my biggest problem.

So I sent him a short email just now and said that I am getting off this roller coaster and absolutely will NOT communicate him, receive his calls, answer emails, etc. while he is angry.
I'm afraid you shouldn't have put the "while he is angry" qualifier in there. It leaves open the option for him to call you when he's not angry, and then become so in the course of the conversation because of something you said and you're back to where you always are. No, I'm afraid No Contact Whatsoever is the only realistic option for you.


Im beginning to wonder if Im enabling him.. yes, just like an alcoholic... knowing how sick he is, and then he expects me NOT TO TALK ABOUT HIS PROBLEM.
Yes, you are enabling him, and punishing yourself. The reason he rages when you talk about his problem is that he's in denial about it, so if you talk about, that just proves that you are attacking him, and anger is justified in the face of being attacked. Remember, to an angry person, their anger is always justified, never unreasonable. He needs professional help, and even with it, and with plenty of time and trial and error, he may not become stable enough to be close to. You don't have to do this. It's not your job to help him. You can move on and learn a life lesson that you can use in other relationships. My advice is to let it go. Enough is enough. It would be a tougher call if he was in therapy and on medication and still screwing up, but he's not even at the beginning of his recovery yet, so it's a very long and bumpy road ahead of him. You aren't obligated to go along for the ride.


Where do you go to find a good therapist for bipolar people and the people who are dealing with them?? Please help.

This is my biggest problem.
You don't need "a good therapist for bipolar people", and if you get away from him, you won't be a person who is "dealing with them". Although it would be good eventually to understand why you let yourself be conned into playing the enabler's role, at this point I don't think finding a therapist is your biggest problem. But I could be wrong about that. If it is, try the yellow pages or Google it.

Take Ordinaryguy's advice!

You are not at fault or responsible for his life and deserve no punishment. Now is the time for you to walk away and take care of yourself. It's OK to feel sorry for him once in a while, like maybe twice a year - but more time than that would be a waste. His drug use/abuse is not making his life easier either.

Take this as a lesson, be glad that you are a strong person and well capable of taking care of yourself. Can you imagine what would have happened to you if you did not catch on to him and stayed naïve.

Don't worry about him ranting and raving online, even if you stayed he'd find ways to hurt you and others just for self-gratification.

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_22_19.gifYou CAN do a lot more for yourself than you COULD for him, so make your choice..

A lot of people hide behind drugs when they are unable to handle the real world. He's addicted to pot because it makes him extremely calm and relaxed, something his disorder won't allow him. For him, the pot is the medicine he [thinks he] needs.

I, personally, think it is time you issue him an ultimatum. Inform him, in a caring way, that he is emotionally hurting you and you can't handle it anymore. You can tell him, that unless he changes his repressive attitude and willingly tries to himself by going to a doctor, you won't have anything to do with him and that you're tired of his rages, his childish attitude of blaming everyone, particularly you, for his outbursts.

Anastazia (my mates sister) was 14 when she agreed to go to a doctor and receive proper medical help. If a 14 year old has the maturity to accept that she has a problem and DO something about it then he should too.

Even though he has a disorder, I believe he is acting incredibly immature and doesn't WANT to help himself. I believe he is denying that he has a problem in the subconcious belief that it will "all go away in time".

I applaud how you have stood by him and tried to help him all this time. You deserve a warm hug and pat on the back. But I think its time for you to make a decision, based not on what is good for him but what is good for YOU!

Regards,
Sebastien

P.S: Here are a number of websites I found relating to Bipolar. I hope they help.

1. BipolarAware.co.uk - Bipolar Disorder Self Help Guide and Forums (http://www.bipolaraware.co.uk/)
2. Cambridge MDF BiPolar Self-Help Group Home Page (http://www.mdfcambridge.org.uk/)
3. Bi-Polar help group launching :: Wessex Scene Online :: Student News (http://www.wessexscene.co.uk/article.php?sid=1496)

Thank you,

Your post is very useful to me and thanks to the others as well. I figured everyone would tell me just to walk or run away from him.

I always thought his bark was worth than his bite, but he's started to act worse.

When he's on the marijuana, when I used to see him on it, the reason I wrote he's addicted to it, is that he claimed to have purchased it for me, but he was the one taking it when I would come over, not only that, he would keep inhaling it about every 20 minutes to the point where it was getting really irritating. He said it was "weak pot" and therefore he had to inhale more to get "the same effect".

He recently said what happened to me, I used to like porn and pot and be "funner" and now I am not. He doesn't understand the difference between light social use on an occasional basis for ANYTHING and someone who prefers it over a real human being.

I have explained this to him though.

One point when he was sucking down the pot he said "omg Im so stoned" but in no way was he the typical pot user lying flaccid on the couch not moving. When he's high on pot he's running up and down stairs and moving about quickly just the same way when he's not on pot. He also used to take cocaine about 10 yrs ago with a host of other drugs when his wife left him. That was when he began his drug use. The only thing he's done now is pot, but he says he's given it up for months now.

I was curious do the people who answer questions here, are they laypeople, doctors, or are they people who are on medication for various reasons? Is it a mix of all three?




Alot of people hide behind drugs when they are unable to handle the real world. He's addicted to pot because it makes him extremely calm and relaxed, something his disorder won't allow him. For him, the pot is the medicine he [thinks he] needs.

I, personally, think it is time you issue him an ultimatum. Inform him, in a caring way, that he is emotionally hurting you and you can't handle it anymore. You can tell him, that unless he changes his repressive attitude and willingly tries to himself by going to a doctor, you won't have anything to do with him and that you're tired of his rages, his childish attitude of blaming everyone, particuarly you, for his outbursts.

Anastazia (my mates sister) was 14 when she agreed to go to a doctor and receive proper medical help. If a 14 year old has the maturity to accept that she has a problem and DO something about it then he should too.

Even though he has a disorder, I believe he is acting incredibly immature and doesn't WANT to help himself. I believe he is denying that he has a problem in the subconcious belief that it will "all go away in time".

I applaud how you have stood by him and tried to help him all this time. You deserve a warm hug and pat on the back. But I think its time for you to make a decision, based not on what is good for him but what is good for YOU!

Regards,
Sebastien

P.S: Here are a number of websites I found relating to Bipolar. I hope they help.

1. BipolarAware.co.uk - Bipolar Disorder Self Help Guide and Forums (http://www.bipolaraware.co.uk/)
2. Cambridge MDF BiPolar Self-Help Group Home Page (http://www.mdfcambridge.org.uk/)
3. Bi-Polar help group launching :: Wessex Scene Online :: Student News (http://www.wessexscene.co.uk/article.php?sid=1496)

Honey, we are the greatest Melting Pot there is.

You have professionals, lays, and many people with a lot of personal experience.

The nice part about this site is that all advice is absolutely free and leaves it up to you to make a choice to accept it or leave it.

So, what are your plans regarding your future with or without this individual who cannot get his life straight?

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_33_13.gif

Honey, we are the greatest Melting Pot there is.

You have professionals, lays, and many people with a lot of personal experience.

The nice part about this site is that all advice is absolutely free and leaves it up to you to make a choice to accept it or leave it.

So, what are your plans regarding your future with or without this individual who cannot get his life straight?

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_33_13.gif

"lays" LMAO! Hello, I didn't realize anyone was on right now!

I think I have to plan this slowly, I can't just pull the wool from under him... and of course I have to do it without any resentment or anger as well.

I was reading that link someone gave someone on this or another site. The one called "How to tell you are dating a loser" and I noticed some of the advice from the doctor was "become very boring, act as though you are depressed and need time to figure it all out, so that the loser can blame you again and know its not their fault you want out of the relationship".

What do you think of this?

P.S. I love your cats! Cats are my breath!

Even though he has a disorder, I believe he is acting incredibly immature and doesn't WANT to help himself. I believe he is denying that he has a problem in the subconcious belief that it will "all go away in time".




Yes that's what I've always thought, it always helps to have someone else confirm this of course. He doesn't seem to look at what he's causing. He says "im sorry and I will never do it again" and then he does it again. I don't know why he would even believe himself.

He's convinced an online friend he was flirting with broke into his place last year and has never backdowned from believing it was true. This was during a time when he had not slept for 2 days at least. I heard he had called a friend and was screaming at the top of his lungs that "Marie" was in his house with her son and they had gotten through somehow. Marie lives in the midwest. In addition on the phone I was told by "Marie" that he was screaming to his other friend on the phone that Maries friends were waiting till he fell asleep to torture and kill him, and were hiding somewhere in his house.

Ive told him many times that I do not believe Marie was ever there, and he continues to say she was obsessed and was there. He says that she even told him that I was driving the "get away car". Later he backed down from that, but said she said that.

Do you think if he admits all this is not true, he will realize he is seriously ill because he was hallucinating people that looked totally real but were not really there?

Alot of people hide behind drugs when they are unable to handle the real world. He's addicted to pot because it makes him extremely calm and relaxed, something his disorder won't allow him. For him, the pot is the medicine he [thinks he] needs.




I think its affected the way I feel about wanting to date again. Ive been single for 7 years and even though I never committed to this guy, I haven't dated anyone else or flirted with anyone else. This only makes me want to stay single for more time.

That might work on someone who is aware of your feelings and cares.

If you think this is the case, go and give it a try.

Grass does not usually make one speed unless the metabolism is way,way off. Or unless it is laced with speed.

beyondblue (http://www.beyondblue.org/)

If he refuses to seek help, maybe you can print a true story from someone with the disorder and get him to read it.

I wish for you the strength you need to reach your goal in this endeavor. He should hopefully someday realize what a friend you are.


http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_22_18.gif

Well thank you..

His metabolism is way off.. he can eat whatever he wants and burns it off very fast. I thought he had hyperthyroidism before I realized for certain he was bipolar. The night he was smoking marijuana for the last time around me, he was racing all over the place, talking very fast and he didn't want to get close to me.

After many hours of watching this I finally said something, because I wanted to get close. I told him I felt like he was having a party without me. He quickly grew angry and attacked me. So much for pot being a drug that "Mellows you out and makes you peaceful".




That might work on someone who is aware of your feelings and cares.

If you think this is the case, go and give it a try.

Grass does not usually make one speed unless the metabolism is way,way off. Or unless it is laced with speed.

beyondblue (http://www.beyondblue.org/)

If he refuses to seek help, maybe you can print a true story from someone with the disorder and get him to read it.

I wish for you the strength you need to reach your goal in this endeavor. He should hopefully someday realize what a friend you are.


http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_22_18.gif

His chemistry is all off and will probably get worse if he does not get treatment.

Read up on what you can and try to convince him to see a professional.

Please don't make this your life though, you also deserve a chance at happiness and peace.

If you need us, we'll be here.

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_22_15.gifI'll post some new pictures of my real cats as soon as I get them onto this computer. My daughter has one that weighs 20 lbs.

I'll keep reading and press on the link you sent.. thanks. Time to eat!

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/3296/nomnomnomnh7.gif









His chemistry is all off and will probably get worse if he does not get treatment.

Read up on what you can and try to convince him to see a professional.

Please don't make this your life though, you also deserve a chance at happiness and peace.

If you need us, we'll be here.

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_22_15.gifI'll post some new pictures of my real cats as soon as I get them onto this computer. My daughter has one that weighs 20 lbs.

"Do you think if he admits all this is not true, he will realize he is seriously ill because he was hallucinating people that looked totally real but were not really there?" <- I doubt it very much, he will most likely blame it on the pot.

As a point of interest, pot can make you hallucinate if you smoke a hell of a lot of it - believe me, I know. A couple of years ago (during my "drug-days"), a mate and I got so stoned we started to hallucinate - he was watching an army of green (yes, green) smurfs play tennis and then wanted to join in (this is funny to watch when you can't see the smurfs) and I thought the ground was rolling, like the waves of an ocean, and I was sitting on the bed with my arms spread trying to keep my balance... sjoe.. was hectic. Anyway...


"I think its affected the way I feel about wanting to date again. Ive been single for 7 years and even though I never committed to this guy, I havent dated anyone else or flirted with anyone else. This only makes me want to stay single for more time." <- that is a sort negative repetitive cycle, a catch-22 if you will. Its something you will need to work on, but don't expect it to happen anytime soon. Your mind needs to heal enough for it to consciously tell you that your ready to move on. You can't date anyone, or flirt with anyone because you, subconciously at the least, still feel obligated to this man.

I know how you feel when you say this has affected the way you feel about dating, I myself am married to a man that has biploar muli personality disorder for 19yrs it has affected me in a way that I can't even think of sleeping with him, I use to say the things he says and does or don't do isn't is fault but its at the point its been almost 2 yrs since I sleept in the same bed as him,, I want out of this marriage so bad I started a full time job I have 4 kids and I have plans hopefully within the next 6 months of taking the kids and getting the heck out of here and with that I don't ever want to be in a realionship again,now I feel I lost 19yrs of my younth so the next step is someday just enjoy the grandchildern I will have oneday, I throw 19yrs down the drain ill never get those yrs back all for a man that has no clue what he did to his family

i know how you feel when you say this has affected the way you feel about dating,,i myself am married to a man that has biploar muli personality disorder for 19yrs it has affected me in a way that i can't even think of sleeping with him,,i use to say the things he says and does or dont do isnt is fault but its at the point its been almost 2 yrs since i sleept in the same bed as him,,,i want out of this marriage so bad i started a full time job i have 4 kids and i have plans hopefully within the next 6 months of taking the kids and getting the heck out of here and with that i dont ever want to be in a realionship again,now i feel i lost 19yrs of my younth so the next step is someday just enjoy the grandchildern i will have oneday,,i throw 19yrs down the drain ill never get those yrs back all for a man that has no clue what he did to his family

Oh, Jackie, bless you for holding on for that long. I bet is was hell. You were rewarded, however, by those children of yours. I wish all the best for you and your children,, and a lot of Healthy grandchildren!

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_11_7.gifThank you so much for sharing... it will do her some good to know that sometimes bipolars just don't leave their family members a choice.

Run while you still can! I have been living with my bipolar boyfriend for a year and a half now. My life has been a living hell for well over half that time. I know I should have left a long time ago but I loved him and wanted him to get help and be healthy... If he hasn't yet, then soon he will become physically abusive. I am talking knives to your throat, strangulations, punches etc... but you justify his actions because he's sick . So you stay to help him through his disease only to find that there is something much more traumatic than physical abuse - mental abuse. Bipolars are very very good at making you feel like the smallest person in the world. A single word from them could make you break down and cry. Then you have the public embarrassments. My boyfriend loves doing this. He has yelled at guys in parking lots and said " Anyone want some P*S*Y? There's a whore here". I am the opposite of a whore but in his mind, I am nothing but. He has poured drinks on me and my food while eating out for no reason. He has jumped out of a moving car numerous times etc... Mine has also caused me to lose a very good job, get arrested, and I am in huge debt right now. He has broken a dining room table, coffee table, $2000 flat screen TV, keyed my car and broke a mirrow, ripped clothes, broke jewery, ripped up pictures, punched holes in the wall... so much. Then I am blamed for it. You soon get to a point when you start believing him and you try soooo hard to make him not snap.. you walk on egg shells so your whole day or week isn't ruined by upsetting him. Mine is also a drug addict and alcoholic so that makes it better. I am sorry for being sarcastic and kind of cold about this but it's not worth it. Your whole life will go down the drain and you'll end up with a personality disorder of your own. You'll lose family and friends, self esteem, goals, everything. There's a reason why no one else wants to help him... he has already pushed them away from abuse. If he doesn't think he has a problem, he probably never will. So you tried right? You may love him but its really not worth it. My boyfriend did take medication for a while and it did help, but since he can't keep a job he now has no insurance. His prescriptions would run about $1000 a month with out. He took Risperdol (spell? It's an anti-psychotic), lamictol (an anti-seizure), and lexapro (anti depressant). If you stay, you'll soon reach the "it's not worth it" point. I have to stay with him for now because of the financial mess he put me through, but I will be leaving when I have enough $$. You're life will slowly go down hill if you stay with him untreated. Good luck

Are you becky?

are you becky?
Lol No.:p

Oh, Jackie, bless you for holding on for that long. I bet is was hell. You were rewarded, however, by those children of yours. I wish all the best for you and your children,,, and a lot of Healthy grandchildren!

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/16/16_11_7.gifThank you so much for sharing... it will do her some good to know that sometimes bipolars just don't leave their family members a choice.
Sometimes I wish I had kids.. maybe it would make up for a few things..

He's been telling me lately that his parents are "confirming" that he has an "ugly temper" and that he is not easy to deal with. He told me this as though I didn't know this, or as if was evidence beyond what I had said to him or knew already. He said he cried last night.

Somehow all this is falling around me like so much snow around my shoulders in July. I really don't know what to believe, if he is contrite, sorry, etc.

I asked "but then you always do it again".. I told him he can't control it when he told me that he wouldn't get mad any more. He said "I think I probably can".. but that means he thinks he just never tried to control it before.:rolleyes:

Nods, well I don't tend to "flirt" anyway. I am a very friendly person, but flirting seems insincere online when a person is treating all the same way. I realized it's a fake way to be, so I don't do it, although I am friendly for the most part.

Its not that I even want to meet someone for a serious relationship. The more time goes by, the more confined I feel at the thought of being w/ someone. I feel that my "wild oats" have not, by a long shot, been "sown".

This is depressing because Im not that young anymore, Im getting older, but I have to be what I have to be.

I guess I just meant, he is draining me.. sometimes he makes me look out at the world and wonder if anyone good is even there. If the world is just filled with issue ridden, angry people.



"Do you think if he admits all this is not true, he will realize he is seriously ill because he was hallucinating people that looked totally real but were not really there?" <- I doubt it very much, he will most likely blame it on the pot.

As a point of interest, pot can make you hallucinate if you smoke a hell of alot of it - believe me, I know. A couple of years ago (during my "drug-days"), a mate and I got so stoned we started to hallucinate - he was watching an army of green (yes, green) smurfs play tennis and then wanted to join in (this is funny to watch when you can't see the smurfs) and I thought the ground was rolling, like the waves of an ocean, and I was sitting on the bed with my arms spread trying to keep my balance ... sjoe .. was hectic. NEWAY...


"I think its affected the way I feel about wanting to date again. Ive been single for 7 years and even though I never committed to this guy, I havent dated anyone else or flirted with anyone else. This only makes me want to stay single for more time." <- that is a sort negative repetitive cycle, a catch-22 if you will. its something you will need to work on, but don't expect it to happen anytime soon. your mind needs to heal enough for it to conciously tell you that your ready to move on. you can't date anyone, or flirt with anyone because you, subconciously at the least, still feel obligated to this man.

You know, this just reminds me not to allow him to make me take too much time off from my work. He had asked me to, and I said yes, and he said he would reimburse me, and when the time comes for him to do that, he takes his time, I spend time worrying, and I wonder if Im going to go in debt or make others wait to be paid their money that I owe them, you know, the usual bills that have to be paid monthly.

This makes me very wary, I would never want to lose my job from taking too much time off.. I don't even feel that he's someone I can RELY on, even though he has at times helped me. The price for that, the rollercoaster personality I have to endure of his, is really not worth it.

Yes he finally did do the emotional outburst in front of others.. and that I had never experienced before with him. He had done it ALL THE TIME online on the bulletin boards, but he like others believe there's a difference between how you act online and how you act "in real life" and I do not believe that at all. I feel how you act over the years on the board is how you are when you're letting it rip. The board that I met him on, everyone acts toxic and in need of meds. I would never let them know I am posting on here or they would screenprint my posts and make a thread about it to laugh over.

It seems that crazies attract crazies and on the internet it is even easier to find them than in "real life".. as if this is "not real life" it also is. They are so sick, I have stopped posting there after I created a thread to find out who is calling him and harassing him. I wanted to know which one of those board members it was! I think it's a guy who knows both of us, and Im certain it is someone we used to post to on that same board where we met. This guy is calling him and telling him that he's looking for me and that I have "phone sex with him"!! AS IF I need more trouble?

I now wonder if these calls are even being phoned to him or not! I mean, who's to know? He claims this guy is calling him incessantly, and he was raging at me on chat and on the phone because he was jealous of this guy caller. He believed this guy over me!

Yes its always "our fault" but those are the classic signs of abuse. How can it be someone else's fault? In fact even if it were "our fault" that doesn't excuse or condone HIS behavior.. and that behavior is immature and outrageous.

I feel bad for you, and I can't even imagine being in that situation. I would never in a hundred years trust him enough to live with him, after I have seen the stunts he's pulled on me.

He would have to go to therapy. He says he wants to talk to a psychologist now.. I guess he CLAIMS he's realizing how "bad" he is. Right now he's calm. He's calling and he's friendly, but his poor sleeping habits are still intact and continuing! That's part of his big problem.

Every time I visit him after he's not slept for at least a day, or is getting poor sleep, he acts so drained from not sleeping, that he seems to be right there on the very edge towards lashing out. His lack of sleep makes him moody by itself, combine that with the bipolar? I can always tell when he's not gotten sleep, because he's really irritable and he looks at me with this look that almost looks like hate. He is super sensitive and anything I say can be misconstrued to mean something negative to him. Even the most innocent thing. A few times Ive said "My god you look terrible" referring to his lack of sleep and he was insulted. As thought anyone wouldn't look bad if they were going without sleep for 24 hrs?? I know I would look horrible. He's got me aligned with his crappy sleep cycles. Even when I correct my bad sleep cycle from socializing with him, he can RUIN IT in ONE NIGHT.. because, say I go over there Saturday night, we go out, and do not go to bed till 6am, meaning we don't wake up till 4pm. The day is ruined and wasted, and then a pattern is set because neither one of us wants to go to bed at a normal hour, say 11pm.

I'm getting so sick of this. Im not sure how to correct my own sleeping problems that are coming out of knowing him. Does anyone have any helpful hints?? I feel smothered and claustrophobic going to bed at 10 or 11pm when I wake up late. It makes me feel like I just woke up, so why would I be going to bed already?

I want to go to sleep if I feel tired. Sleep is also starting to feel like unconsciousness that I can't control, or death. The french call it "le petit morte" and I can relate to that. I guess because HE is making me feel so crappy based on when he rages and accuses, that I feel more disturbed when trying to consider sleep.

I tried to stay up all night once, and felt so horrible by 7am, I just finally fell asleep, causing another bad cycle to begin.

I don't know if I should stay up all night when my sleep cycles are disrupted and then go to bed early later on, or just sleep a few hours in the morning, wake up, and then go to bed at a normal time that same night.

I'm not sure which is best, more successful at breaking bad sleeping patterns. Like I said, one night with him and my sleeping patterns are ruined again. Its not that I don't get 8 hours of sleep, it's that my body is now getting them at the WRONG cycle time.. so Im going to bed late, and getting up late and my body doesn't like this system, because Im looking worse and feeling worse, for some reason, even if its 8 hours!!


He told me tonight that he would "rather talk to a psychologist than just be put on pills".. he said that the shrink he talked to spent only "five minutes on me and then prescribed me four different medications".

Its shrinks like this that ruins some peoples chances of good mental health.


Run while you still can! I have been living with my bipolar boyfriend for a year and a half now. My life has been a living hell for well over half that time. I know I should have left a long time ago but I loved him and wanted him to get help and be healthy... If he hasn't yet, then soon he will become physically abusive. I am talking knives to your throat, strangulations, punches etc... but you justify his actions because he's sick . So you stay to help him through his disease only to find that there is something much more traumatic than physical abuse - mental abuse. Bipolars are very very good at making you feel like the smallest person in the world. A single word from them could make you break down and cry. Then you have the public embarrassments. My boyfriend loves doing this. He has yelled at guys in parking lots and said " Anyone want some P*S*Y? There's a whore here". I am the opposite of a whore but in his mind, I am nothing but. He has poured drinks on me and my food while eating out for no reason. He has jumped out of a moving car numerous times etc..... Mine has also caused me to lose a very good job, get arrested, and I am in huge debt right now. He has broken a dining room table, coffee table, $2000 flat screen tv, keyed my car and broke a mirrow, ripped clothes, broke jewery, ripped up pictures, punched holes in the wall... so much. Then I am blamed for it. You soon get to a point when you start believing him and you try soooo hard to make him not snap.. you walk on egg shells so your whole day or week isnt ruined by upsetting him.

I was with my ex wife who has bipolar and her oldest daughter has it to and the last 7 years was pure hell for me the daugther destroy my home and the ex cheated on me for 4 years and had phone and internet sex and slept with 9 men in a 8 month period and she net the out of me for no reasun and a few other people too. So believe me I will not have anything to do with a bi polar person

I don't even feel that he's someone I can RELY on, even though he has at times helped me. The price for that, the rollercoaster personality I have to endure of his, is really not worth it.
Don't go near him.


The board that I met him on, everyone acts toxic and in need of meds.

It seems that crazies attract crazies

Yes its always "our fault" but those are the classic signs of abuse.
Stay away from him.


his poor sleeping habits are still intact and continuing!

He's got me aligned with his crappy sleep cycles. Even when I correct my bad sleep cycle from socializing with him, he can RUIN IT in ONE NIGHT

I'm getting so sick of this. Im not sure how to correct my own sleeping problems that are coming out of knowing him. Does anyone have any helpful hints??
Don't socialize with him.


Like I said, one night with him and my sleeping patterns are ruined again.
Stay away from him.


He told me tonight that he would "rather talk to a psychologist than just be put on pills".. he said that the shrink he talked to spent only "five minutes on me and then prescribed me four different medications".

Its shrinks like this that ruins some peoples chances of good mental health.
Some mental disorders are severe enough that until the brain chemistry is brought back to some semblance of normal, talk is pointless. Talk therapy can help to keep the person from going off the cliff again, but it can't pull them back up after they've jumped.

You've gotten a lot of good advice here from people who know from first-hand experience what you're dealing with. And they are virtually unanimous in saying, "LEAVE HIM ALONE". At some point you have to accept your responsibility for the trauma you're going through, because you keep making the choice to dive back into that whirlpool. I salute your desire to help him, but it's beyond your capability to do so, and it's counterproductive FOR HIM AS WELL AS YOU to keep doing it. Don't think of it as giving up or abandoning him. Think of it as freeing him to find help in his own way and time, and saving yourself a lifetime of unnecessary hurt and heartache. It's better for you both. Don't feel guilty and don't apologize, just do it.

I can understand your viewpoint, and I came here to first figure out if he was really bipolar by going to different mental health forums and such and chatting with different kinds of people, some bipolar, or some struggling with bipolar people or people with mental issues. Im convinced he is bipolar now, I wasn't before, although I had always theorized he was. I guess I was spot on about this, and Im not happy to know that. Now that I'm at this stage, the information aids me in making different shifts in our "relationship", which wouldn't have shifted as much without the information I've obtained. Do you know what I mean? Without feedback and others thoughts, without bouncing ideas off others, I wouldn't even know as much as I know, at this point in my life and I know a great deal as a hypnotist and a researcher in consciousness. I've always asked questions and always wanted to be certain.

I've spent some time around a multiple personality, but I've never known a bipolar before, this is the first time.

I haven't seen him in weeks. I don't know what you mean when you write "that is counterproductive for him as well". He would do nothing on his own. He wouldn't have another human being around him that would then serve as his needed catalyst in order for him to learn more about himself in relation to another, thereby then effecting the change that is needed.

Alone he's done nothing but exist in his addictions and he has been unconscious about his problem. He is completely isolated from society as he retired in his mid forties. He stays at home.

He's starting to become conscious that his problem is severe. I had never committed to him, and in my experience with men, that's one of the reasons they become angry, when I don't want a commitment, and they do. Eventually I have to let them go, but I always want to salvage the friendship. In his case he's bipolar. I wanted to also learn more about this "brain chemistry". I figured as well that "talk therapy" wouldn't be enough, but if he had not had such a lousy first experience with a shrink, he would have continued getting help. Instead the shrink just threw pills at him and assessed him in five minutes. That's exactly how most medical doctors have been with me, as I have a back problem. Its taken many dr's to find anyone that I can work with, that looks me in the eyes, and is concerned with my physical issues.

Anyway thanks for your advice. I realize this is not Yahoo answers, I would like to know some of the background if possible from the people that are giving me advice.. esp. if they are bipolar or had experiences with such.











At some point you have to accept your responsibility for the trauma you're going through, because you keep making the choice to dive back into that whirlpool. I salute your desire to help him, but it's beyond your capability to do so, and it's counterproductive FOR HIM AS WELL AS YOU to keep doing it. Don't think of it as giving up or abandoning him. Think of it as freeing him to find help in his own way and time, and saving yourself a lifetime of unnecessary hurt and heartache. It's better for you both. Don't feel guilty and don't apologize, just do it.

Hey there! My brother suffers from it and he has had wild episodes of mania similar to your boyfriend. His bipolar kept getting worse until he got on the right medication and he has been hospitalized 5 times sometimes for as long as 3 whole months. You really need to help this guy or find someone who can help him. Does he have any family you could talk to? I know how hard it is being involved with someone bipolar but you just have to remember that the hurtful and crazy things they do are not your fault and your boyfriend doesn't mean it its just that he is sick and in reality his brain isn't functioning properly. I understand how hard it is to get bipolar people to get help but someday he hopefully will. Keep trying your best to help him, after 5 years my brother has finally agreed to take his medication and he is a happy person now. The nice guy that I used to catch glimpses of is here for good now and hopefully the same will happen for your boyfriend. There are loads of doctors out there willing to help and maybe you could do some research yourself on decent ones that can actually help him and not just prescribe him lithium.
Good luck with this!:)

Thanks very much

How do you FIND decent ones? I think this is everyone's prevailing question here. References would be great. We both live in Southern California.

Also.. I was curious, what kinds of meds is your brother on? My friend was put on Lithium which he had a very bad reaction to. He at times takes xanax for nervousness or anxiety.



hey there! my brother suffers from it and he has had wild episodes of mania similar to your boyfriend. his bipolar kept getting worse until he got on the right medication and he has been hospitalized 5 times sometimes for as long as 3 whole months. you really need to help this guy or find someone who can help him. does he have any family you could talk to? i know how hard it is being involved with someone bipolar but you just have to remember that the hurtful and crazy things they do are not your fault and your boyfriend doesnt mean it its just that he is sick and in reality his brain isnt functioning properly. i understand how hard it is to get bipolar people to get help but someday he hopefully will. keep trying your best to help him, after 5 years my brother has finally agreed to take his medication and he is a happy person now. The nice guy that i used to catch glimpses of is here for good now and hopefully the same will happen for your boyfriend. there are loads of doctors out there willing to help and maybe you could do some research yourself on decent ones that can actually help him and not just prescribe him lithium.
good luck with this!:)

My brother got treatment from the psychiatric unit of our local hospital so maybe you could try that. He is currently taking lithium but has to take other drugs like priadel and respirodol. Some of the drugs he is on are anti psychotics and others are there to counteract the side effects of the other drugs. Lithium alone sometimes isn't enough for bipolar sufferers and this seems to be the case with your boyfriend. Every ones body is different as my family have been told countless times by doctors. A good doctor will help him to find the right balance for him. Generally I think lithium is a mood stabilizer but if his body can't handle lithium then some other mood stabilizer might do the trick. If he agrees to trying medication again both of you will need to be patient because finding the right meds can sometimes take ages but don't worry he will get there! Lucky for him he has someone who really cares. Sorry I can't recommend anyone but I live in ireland so I don't think it would be much use lol ;)

Ok, thanks.. Ireland.. bonny Ireland and the Kerry Coast!! Oh how entranced I have been with that country most of my life! lol

Have you heard of that new drug for bipolar on the market named Abilify? I have seen the advertisements everywhere and heard its new.


my brother got treatment from the psychiatric unit of our local hospital so maybe you could try that. he is currently taking lithium but has to take other drugs like priadel and respirodol. some of the drugs he is on are anti psychotics and others are there to counteract the side effects of the other drugs. Lithium alone sometimes isnt enough for bipolar sufferers and this seems to be the case with your bf. Every ones body is different as my family have been told countless times by doctors. A good doctor will help him to find the right balance for him. Generally I think lithium is a mood stabilizer but if his body can't handle lithium then some other mood stabilizer might do the trick. If he agrees to trying medication again both of you will need to be patient because finding the right meds can sometimes take ages but dont worry he will get there! lucky for him he has someone who really cares. Sorry i can't recommend anyone but I live in ireland so i dont think it would be much use lol ;)

Lol. No I haven't heard of that 1 but some of them have like ten different names for the same drug so you should look into it! Best of luck with helping this guy I hope he gets better soon :)

I would like to know some of the background if possible from the people that are giving me advice.. esp. if they are bipolar or had experiences with such.
I'm not medically qualified, but was emotionally and sexually involved with two different women who were bipolar, and also had a male friend who was. I'm not still in touch with any of them, and I'm not sorry. I gave everything I had to give and then some but it was never enough.

I'm not medically qualified, but was emotionally and sexually involved with two different women who were bipolar, and also had a male friend who was. I'm not still in touch with any of them, and I'm not sorry. I gave everything I had to give and then some but it was never enough.

I sympathize. Its sometimes difficult enough dealing with so called "normal" women and men. Having been on both sides of the fence.. Hell probably hath no fury like a bipolar wench. :eek:

:D

I don't know what you mean when you write "that is counterproductive for him as well". He would do nothing on his own. He wouldn't have another human being around him that would then serve as his needed catalyst in order for him to learn more about himself in relation to another, thereby then effecting the change that is needed.
In case you haven't already seen it, here's a post from a related thread (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/mental-emotional-health/depression-anger-blame-130037.html#post625770) that seems to be relevant.

In case you haven't already seen it,post from a related thread (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/mental-emotional-health/depression-anger-blame-130037.html#post625770) that seems to be relevant.

Thanks I will read it, in the meantime I have written a small tome about tonights antics gone awry. I am only sharing so that MAYBE someone here can relate, and advise. Thank you.





I was arguing with steve tonight because he was in total denial that I was developing anxiety because of all he had put me through in the last few months of "dating him".

He failed to see the connection, all he saw was that for the last few days he had been nice, so why was I "Starting up". I said anxiety isnt something to predict. I got bloated a few days ago and didnt want to go to bed, because I felt really really full and can't just lie down horizontal when this happens, I began to feel anxiety as a conditioned response to him becoming upset about me feeling bad. Last time this happened, he blew up because I didnt go to bed, and was "acting weird". Now that he's taking some medication, small slivers of Celexa, some older medication he had around that he used at my urgency, and he was finally acting stable, although at first he took a whole tablet and felt tremendous anxiety, a sliver is all he needs.

He was patient with my condition and didnt act as he had in the past, but I was really worried and my hands started sweating and I grew emotional and he looked at me like I was going crazy,. and not as though he was actually the crazy one.

He asked if I wanted to walk and I said yes and over time I grew calm, but its a conditioned response, I know, from all the BS he's put me through. I tried to EXPLAIN to him again tonight as well as last night what this was and he felt he was being attacked. He was acting weird..and between dropped calls, I would call back and he was making fun of my attempt to explain & my anxiety and calling me crazy. I was shouting at the top of my lungs that he caused this and I am a very strong person but theres only so much even the healthiest person can take. I had given him way too many chances understanding he was bipolar, and it was going totally unappreciated by him and he kept saying "What are you talking about?" over and over again.. and that was what was upsetting me.

I asked him "is anxiety a pleasant thing for you??" and he said "no, but I don't act like this!". I explained I didnt feel anxious then, I was just upset that he had no regard for the fact that it was he that had created this anxiety in me. I explained a rock getting hit by the tides again and again can deal with it for a while, but after time, the rock erodes and grows smaller from the constant impact. I used this as an analogy for what he did to me. He kept acting as though because it was "in the past" I shouldn't be upset anymore. I explained it would just take some time for me to get over it, and it was conditioned responses from all I had to deal with him. He mentioned about this sounding "insulting" to him. Of all things!

He continued to say "but thats all over now" but I beseeched him to understand that I would still have the emotional responses for a while until I know for sure he's on a road to recovery. He basically just said "thats not my fault" which pissed me off and I found that attitude to be one of GREAT disregard, discompassion and disdain.

I was driving around all during this emotional outburst tonight.. and in between calls from him & me calling him ---> one of his PHONE SEX OPERATORS calls me! I didn't even KNOW he had a phone sex operator regular!! I didn't even know they called women to warn them! Which I guess is a good thing. Apparently they have been having a phone sex relationship which has spanned WEEKS, the entire time I have been dating him and over at his home!

She had EXACTLY the kind of phone sex voice I would expect. She began, "You don't know me but I know Steve".. At first I thought this was someone off the bulletin boards that we both knew pulling a prank on me, but then she began to tell me all kinds of personal things about myself.

IN a nutshell, she told me that she "knew I was there at his place all week and had left 2 nights ago".. which is true. That he "does things for you, that he is calling other phone sex operators, that he wacks off talking about you", etc. She told me all kinds of personal things about myself and what I do, and I knew the only person who would KNOW THIS is HIM.

Apparently he loves to involve me in phone sex conversations with other women, but is never like this WITH me.

She said "You know, enough is enough". She said that this Friday he had told her "Watch me drive her into a frenzy" meaning me. I don't know if he was masterbating to her when he said this though. Driving me into an upset angry frenzy gets him off? I never IMAGINED that would be a sexual turn on of ANY sort.

Someone please explain this to me. :(

She didn't say she thought he was crazy, I think she realized his fantasy requests involving cruelty to someone he claims to love is the line in the sand with her. Her participation makes her an accomplice. She doesn't want that and thinks its time for me to be informed!!

I think she phoned him tonight, in the midst of our arguing & decided to finally tell me the truth of his dishonesty! This has only added fuel to the fire.

He also has been WIRING HER MONEY, she says.

I guess this was a phone sex operator with a conscience! I asked how she got my number and she said a few weeks ago he said it would be hot if she called me and told me what's going on & gave my # out!! I assume after he "got off" he realized his creepy mistake and told her NOT to call me and she promised not to. She kept the #!

It felt very surreal as she continued talking, but I managed to speak calmly & matter of factly - until I got to the part where I told her he was giving me anxiety and I started to cry.. and then I couldn't talk. I put the cell phone down on my lap, and she hung up, probably thinking I hung up.. or something. Ive not heard from her since.

All this time he has been accusing me of having phone sex and running a phone sex business when he was doing it... phone sexing women who run phone sex businesses! Everything I have been attacked about, is what HE'S doing! And I TOLD HIM THIS at the time! I said "Those guilty are the ones that accuse the other of what they themselves do". Everything I ever TOLD HIM or predicted has come true, & who'd want it to be so?

I was driving around all night thinking about this and eventually I went to see "In the valley of Elah" which was one long DEPRESSING account of how effed up the Iraq war is and how it affects "the little people". I just got out of it recently and drove around. I turned the station to KLSX which is my fav one.. the one that Howard Stern used to be on.. and I heard John and Jeff, the late night hosts, talking about "addiction" and why people stay with people when they know they are addicted. I was surprised but amazed at how timely this was, in relation to what had just happened to me. I called in and was on hold for half an hour, never got on, my phone died dammit. My call would have been the best, who gets a call from the phone sex operator?

In a way thank goodness that people have a conscience and will INFORM the innocent people that the people they are dating are doing such evil things behind their backs and denying it and instead accusing the woman of what they themselves do!

I was shouting at him tonight, I was so mad, I told him "why can't YOU JUST TELL ME THE TRUTH!!" he said someone's playing a prank on me, and that its "probably someone you know" I said "I DON'T TELL ANYONE ALL THIS STUFF.. I have told noone that Ive been at your place all week or that I was not there the last two nights, it can only be you!!"

Even though he's been caught red handed HE'S STILL CALMLY LYING..

The thing is I don't know what to do now. I was always there for him because I knew he had an illness, the bipolarism. I knew as soon as he got some meds and therapy, he would be a changed person, I didn't want to let him down. I knew that I would be the person that would make the change in him happen. He'd been alone for so many years used to masterbating porn.

In some ways I now despise porn because if it wasn't for porn, it wouldn't have caused this to happen in MY life. It goes from something "fun" to something utterly damaging to people. Its also a "gateway activity" I now see.. . as POT is a gateway drug to worse drugs... PORN is a gateway activity to phone sex and then sex with hookers.

Its so easily accessible and advertised, its just too easy not to not do it. It went from porn, to his answering ads for "live cams" and then phone sex. Now it ruins lives and the people who suffer are the ones that don't know its happening. Although I knew he was still going to porn sites because I saw the links in other OTHER browser I told him to download. He doesn't KNOW that you can still see the cookies even if he deletes the history in the browser.

But that's was a few weeks ago and I thought maybe he was just looking at something, not masterbating, but maybe he went there to talk to that hooker phone sex operator who called me tonight, because she did admit that he wacked off to her 3 weeks ago and I think that's around the time I saw the new sex links in the cookies.

Its just so creepy. Steve went from wacking to still shots, to Steve watching webcams of women masterbating, to Steve having phone sex... all the while when I had a renewed interest in him, and he was LYING and told me "I no longer have an interest in porn and I think its creepy". He would actually LIE on the phone to me, LIE IN MY FACE!

Its just ruined. I don't know what to do now.

I guess my body reactions the last two days has been telling me something that I didn't know about him, and its all come out in the last two days too, with that woman calling out of nowhere. This is a nightmare. All this time I have been accused of doing phone sex and have defended myself unendingly because its not true and I had suspected then that anyone who kept accusing me of something I wasn't doing was in actuality the one guilty of doing it.

This is unreal to me. I still feel Im being put on.

Please, please, for your own health and safety, stop all contact with this man.

Please, please, for your own health and safety, stop all contact with this man.
Well that was short and sweet.. Im still up thinking about this. He kept coming online and denying that he was having phone sex. He said he will sue this slanderous person in court.

He assumes Im going to work when Im in this mental state of having just found out. He assumes a lot.

If it wasn't happening to me, Id laugh.

A couple of friends are up now, Im telling them about it.

more thoughts

I feel that now that Ive invested more time Ive gotten to know him better and gotten closer, now to separate is MUCH harder than I realize. It makes me feel like enduring a death, and I don't wish to "endure" anything, any longer.

This is difficult I know.

I still feel sorry for him, this is also making it rough.

... I was developing anxiety because of all he had put me through...

... I began to feel anxiety as a conditioned response to him becoming upset...

... its a conditioned response, I know, from all the BS he's put me through...

... I was shouting at the top of my lungs that he caused this...

... it was he that had created this anxiety in me...

... an analogy for what he did to me...

... I told her he was giving me anxiety...


Do you see a pattern here? You are not acknowledging your part in creating this maelstrom. Take ownership for what you are attracting to yourself and manifesting around you.


I didn't want to let him down. I knew that I would be the person that would make the change in him happen

I still feel sorry for him, this is also making it rough.

This is your savior complex talking. You cannot "make the change in him happen". Trying to do the impossible is a sure-fire route to anger and frustration, which is what you've got.

It's time to end contact with him, he is causing you NOTHING but heart ache, pain, confusion and so forth. He doesn't want help, he refuses to acknowledge his problem. He CANNOT be helped if he refuses to come to terms with his problem and bloody grow up.

Tell him to bugger off, seriously now.


*hugs* :)

Do you see a pattern here? You are not acknowledging your part in creating this maelstrom. Take ownership for what you are attracting to yourself and manifesting around you.



This is your savior complex talking. You cannot "make the change in him happen". Trying to do the impossible is a sure-fire route to anger and frustration, which is what you've got.

That's not true, I have gotten him on meds, and he HAS been better and calm and "normal" acting since this happened. Its just that the timing of this phone sex operator has come after he started his meds, and it's the line I draw in the sand, and I have confronted and told him about this and he doesn't like what he's hearing.

Even though he's now on meds and hope was and is in sight for him, I don't think I can "handle" the fact he's been phone sexing other people.

Its not like Im blind or stupid, I see all this very clearly. This is just a calm after the storm, and I have to process what happened before I move on.

it's time to end contact with him, he is causing you NOTHING but heart ache, pain, confusion and so forth. he doesn't want help, he refuses to acknowledge his problem. he CANNOT be helped if he refuses to come to terms with his problem and bloody grow up.

tell him to bugger off, seriously now.


*hugs* :)

Well he DID take the meds, and so he was trying to do something positive, and I consider that a monumental act because he has never done this before. He wants to be better but it's a long road.

The fact that the phone sex person called at this time is what puts the "fly in the ointment" or what have you with ME, because I have always been someone that can't tolerate that kind of behavior. Ive never tolerated cheating and its not happened to me, and it's the single thing that would drive me away.

I guess he's in denial because he knows if he admits he really has been phone sexing a phone sex professional, he will lose me for sure.

I just don't know what to do now, other than to take one day at a time. For a while I thought I had a glimpse of something, possibly something. Now this.

I just don't believe you can take huge bodies of people and squeeze them all into black and white categories.

I don't use a broad brush & generalize sick people and "dump them" or dispose of them that easily. I don't sweep everyone into the similar categories believing everyone's the same, even when they are ill. I would like to remain supportive as a friend.. I don't treat people like disposable garbage.

I know he has an illness that's why he's acting as he does. But I DON'T have an illness, so I would not behave as he does, nor throw him out like TRASH.

Also my ego is not that huge that I must run in anguish and disgust.. thinking IM the only person this person would ever be attracted to. I just want to understand all this before I begin a separation process of some kind, if that is what's inevitably needed.

I don't want to just dump someone without understanding everything that happened, because then I will then have no closure, as what happened with the last one and why I was single for 7 years.

I want to know why someone would say he loves me, even as a bipolar, and still require the phone sex with other women. I want to know what makes someone do this. Other than to receive rancorous advice.

I want to know why someone would say they love a person (me) and still REQUIRE phone sex with other women, and I want to have closure on this before I move on. I want to remain as a friend and I want to understand all these processes. I don't want to rush away in fear and ego driven anguish because I felt I should be the only person this person would ever be attracted to. I wish to understand all facets. I am not the ill one, I wouldn't behave as he would. I wouldn't treat someone as "disposable".. I would want to understand all facets of this, and what makes someone do what they do, and then lie about it.. so that I never attract it to me again. Actually I had my choice of being with him or not, its not as though he was the only choice. I did get signs, I always get signs about people. I just never imagined that the signs I got.. usually in dreams, would imply something THIS BAD. That's the thing about my signs I get them, and always assume I can handle it.. and I just believe that anyone can improve and get better and noones a lost cause.

I guess the timings off, I met him at a time when he was just too ill to BE WITH ANYONE and I'm expecting fidelity and sincerity from someone in the MIDST of their issues as if That's POSSIBLE! I came before he was healed.. and maybe he would never be on a better path if he hadn't met me. I more than sense that this is true as well.

I have had experience in the past with knowing that you can't be someone's lover AND their healer.

Maybe I could have helped more if I had not been a lover.

I would like input as long as its not rancorous advice.

I would like input as long as its not rancorous advice.
I'm reminded of a story I read somewhere about William Penn, the founder of the Quakers. It seems that a magistrate whose official uniform included a ceremonial sword became a Quaker. He became concerned that wearing the sword might be inconsistent with the Quaker teachings on pacifism, so he sought Penn's counsel on the matter. Penn told him to "wear it as long as thee can".

I'm reminded of a story I read somewhere about William Penn, the founder of the Quakers. It seems that a magistrate whose official uniform included a ceremonial sword became a Quaker. He became concerned that wearing the sword might be inconsistent with the Quaker teachings on pacifism, so he sought Penn's counsel on the matter. Penn told him to "wear it as long as thee can".

Well obviously that's what Im doing, and I will know when its time to retreat.
In the meantime I am learning and not turning my back on it, I do know it's a life lesson. I have received the signs. My signs have NEVER been wrong, and its when I ignore them that Im led astray. I guess I am more accurate than I have any idea. I guess I assumed there was a small margin for error in my predictions, dreams and visions, which yes, I do get. I guess there isn't.

I'm just here to help.

I do know its a life lesson.
What do you think the lesson is?

Here's a link that may be relevant. Or not.
Spiritual Acceleration Challenges (http://www.askahealer.com/spiritual-acceleration.htm)

What do you think the lesson is?
Something you may or may not know about, its to trust my signs.

I just can't believe that some things are written in stone, that's why I always try harder. I have always thought outside the box. I have seen things others will never see. I guess that's why I have always assumed that there's hope for everyone.

Later I learned that people see others how they are themselves. If you accuse someone of cheating or phone sex, as he did/does, it's that he really is the one that's doing it. People are the center of the Universes, they assume everyone's like themselves.

I assume everyone can grow and change and evolve in one lifetime because I have in some areas, and I believe in the best for them because I know its possible. Beyond my sarcastic jokes, that is. I end up believing more in them than they do in themselves. They haven't had my experiences so they can't begin to have that kind of trust, faith, hope, insight.

Some people look at me as I give them the entire answer to their dilemma, non-comprehending. I'm not getting it from profiling people, Im getting it from intuition mostly. They can have the answer and it takes them 10 yrs to come to the conclusion I told them about 10 yrs ago. I told someone all about his issues 6 yrs ago, and he comes to be years later to tell me what I had told him long ago. I reminded him of what I told him, and he just said that if he hadn't experienced it for himself, how could he just believe what I was telling him? He also didn't have any faith in me, at that time.

It's been disillusioning. I thought people were like me, and Steve assumes people are as nefarious as he can be. Well we're just at the center of who we are assuming people are like us, and as life goes on we realize people either are or aren't like us. It's a surprise. Its nothing I haven't thought of before or haven't experienced before, I just encounter this through life.

And another--
How do you fight your personal demons? (http://www.askahealer.com/fighting-demons.htm)

I've been exposed to that all my life. I was born knowing and experiencing many events and having many personal insights. I believe in free will and that's why I don't take my signs into full consideration. Actually what I've noticed is.. that I never believe its going to be "as bad" as it turns out to be.

Such as, recently I told him I had a dream where I passed this hot tub with a shower in it, and there was this naked woman in it, and then I saw him, and he hopped into the shower hot tub thing right in front of me, without embarrassment or regard. I mentally asked "what are you doing?" taken aback at this rudeness.. and he just had a sheepish grin on his face, that indicated "Im a stupid guilty fool who is attracted to other women" basically.

I didn't consciously know he was having phone sex, but that dream's a clear indication it was happening. I also have a certain word that when it is uttered, has spelled out havoc for my "romantic life" its code word, and Ive seen how its continued to work in my life, so I know its not a coincidence. He's said it many times and he said it twice in once conversation. The word has more than one meaning. This might not be relevant to anyone and they might have never heard of it, but 9 times out of 10, when the man says this word, or even writes it, the entire "romance" crumbles almost immediately afterwards, and it certainly is not my doing, as Im the sort that doesn't "bail" easily.

Last year, I dreamt he was walking out of a bathroom, and walking on the ceiling.. like a cockroach. I saw his face, suspicious, distrustful. I was sitting next to a man with light hair and skin, who had a problem with one of his legs, as though he couldn't walk well, I think he used a crutch or cane at times. He was leaning against the wall and I was leaning by him. The man looked straight ahead without looking at me and in a whisper warned "He's watching us".

In addition to this, I now realize that the anxiety and hand sweating and fear of sleep that I was experiencing, was my body warning me on an empathic level about what he was doing to me. I thought it was residual anxiety from what Id had to put up with. I had forgotten that my body warns me on an empathic intuitive level that something's going on, when my analytical mind continues to idealistically believe in the possibility of the seeming impossible...

Since I found out about the phone sex, all the physical symptoms, anxiety, fear of sleep, etc, have stopped.

Well those are just some of the things.

And another--
How do you fight your personal demons? (http://www.askahealer.com/fighting-demons.htm)

Im not sure if I do. I know everyone has problems in life. I don't believe in real demons, but I know everyone has personal ones. I don't tend to want to believe in things that represent nothing but evil and ugliness without any redeeming qualities whatsoever.. seems like a waste of a belief. Lol

It's been disillusioning. I thought people were like me, ....as life goes on we realize people either are or aren't like us. Its a surprise.
So the lesson is that we aren't all alike? Are the differences superficial or fundamental? How many different kinds of beings are there?

So the lesson is that we aren't all alike? Are the differences superficial or fundamental? How many different kinds of beings are there?
Well I don't know what your background is. I do hypnosis and past life regression. I hypnotically regressed him this year and found out he was a nazi in a past life. But that doesn't mean a thing for people who don't understand.

As far as different kinds of beings on this planet? Hell no, most people are the same, they are mundane. The very few that are kind and have some sort of higher evolution are far fewer in numbers, but if they are here, they will still feel the burn from the slow evolution of others.

As far as different kinds of beings on this planet? Hell no, most people are the same, they are mundane. The very few that are kind and have some sort of higher evolution are far fewer in numbers, but if they are here, they will still feel the burn from the slow evolution of others.
Are you saying that for spiritual purposes, there are basically two kinds of people in the world? Is the ratio of "mundane" to "higher evolution" types changing over time, do you think?

The distinction I find most instructive is between those that divide the world into two kinds of people, and those that don't. I aspire to be one of those who doesn't, but as you can see, I'm not quite there yet.

Are you saying that for spiritual purposes, there are basically two kinds of people in the world? Is the ratio of "mundane" to "higher evolution" types changing over time, do you think?

The distinction I find most instructive is between those that divide the world into two kinds of people, and those that don't. I aspire to be one of those who doesn't, but as you can see, I'm not quite there yet.

It would be difficult to ascertain that as I don't know the true minds of everyone in the world to know if there are more evolving types as opposed to deevolving ones.

When you look at the news it seems there's more evil in the world, but when you look at communities you see more good.

I myself don't believe anyone's going to evolve until they reach the higher consciousness of respecting and loving animals instead of participating in an indifferent secret ceremony that leads to their demise. In that sort of world where people put blinders on, I would think evolution would be difficult. Many people believe themselves to be highly spiritual creatures and are conditioned to partipate in situations that harm others.

That way of being does not permit the ascension into higher consciousness so that one realizes all life is sacred, not only human but animal. It's a murky place to pull oneself out of though, and it has and can be done.. but with most, its apparently not happening.

I don't believe in real demons, but I know everyone has personal ones. I don't tend to want to believe in things that represent nothing but evil and ugliness without any redeeming qualities whatsoever.. seems like a waste of a belief. lol
I don't think of them as demons, really. More like anti-gurus. Situations or people that arise to teach us what still has the power to disrupt our natural bliss and disintegrate our essential unity. This is valuable knowledge and we owe them a debt of gratitude.

That way of being does not permit the ascension into higher consciouness so that one realizes all life is sacred, not only human but animal.
Why stop the sense of the sacred at animal life? Isn't plant life and bacteriological, fungal and viral life sacred as well? For that matter, what about the life of galaxies and stars and planets and minerals and soils? How do you draw the line between sacred and profane?

Why stop the sense of the sacred at animal life? Isn't plant life and bacteriological, fungal and viral life sacred as well? For that matter, what about the life of galaxies and stars and planets and minerals and soils? How do you draw the line between sacred and profane?

I don't stop there, Im just writing in small parts, I mentioned "all" but I know what you mean. Its all life, some we can eat some we cannot. Everyone knows the difference between right and wrong and then the rest of the time, they plug up their eyes and ears and pretend they don't know. The defense mechanisms ensue and you always know it. I used to call that the "cabbage theory" when people protested that there is no difference between a head of lettuce and a calf, for example. This is about the only time they ever say anything that approximates poetry, as they pause to slide their head that is so deeply snug in their a s s.

What do you mean profane? I don't like the religious use of the word "Sacred" but it usually shows up. I really have to find a better word.. ahemm...

I don't think of them as demons, really. More like anti-gurus. Situations or people that arise to teach us what still has the power to disrupt our natural bliss and disintegrate our essential unity. This is valuable knowledge and we owe them a debt of gratitude.

I used to wonder if possession is real, but after experiencing an ex with 200 personalities, as I like to call them, subcutaneous and autonomous consciousnesses, I really really wonder if the ability to become possessed is possible at all.

The more I think and experience, the less likely it seems to me. There's too much about the human mind and too much that isn't known to assume that what's affecting someone is coming "outside from ourselves". I know that the bible is radically warped because its been edited for convenience during political times (and every age was political) but the only person in there who seemed to know what he was talking about were the words attributed to Jesus. He said "The kingdom of heaven is within you". Well he certainly is no idiot is he.

I notice most people I've been exposed to think that just about everything that can possess and affect us seems to aim its arrow from outside of ourselves, instead of from within ourselves.

... the words attributed to Jesus. He said "The kingdom of heaven is within you". Well he certainly is no idiot is he.

I notice most people I've been exposed to think that just about everything that can possess and affect us seems to aim its arrow from outside of ourselves, instead of from within ourselves.
He's also reported to have said,

"There is nothing that enters a man from the outside which can defile him; but the things which come out of him, those are the things that defile a man. If anyone has ears to hear, let him hear"
I take it this applies to dietary as well as psychological pollution.

So your ex had 200 personalities and this guy is bipolar. Do you actively seek out these types of people?

So your ex had 200 personalities and this guy is bipolar. Do you actively seek out these types of people?

NO

I broke up with the person who has MP 7 yrs ago. It was an incredible learning experience and my life is enriched because of it, also my hypnosis abilities and understanding of human consciousness was affirmed and flourished because of it.

To others they would only not understand what they couldn't get out of it.

He's also reported to have said,

I take it this applies to dietary as well as psychological pollution.

I wouldn't agree with that at all. He wasn't referring to food obviously, he was referring to emotional and spiritual concerns. Most diseases & issues Ive found are 98% diet related.

Nothing from outside (without) can defile a person that will not allow themselves to be defiled. That is ultimately the strongest person there is. That is exactly why Im the not the type that runs away from others so easily when things get rough. The learning lesson or experience is essential, any bad experience or assault on character doesn't say anything negative about oneself, only the person that issued it.

Our will and decisions triggered by the negative experiences from others or events that we experience in the world make us miserable or jaded, only if we let it. In fact if we come out of a bad situation a negative, hopeless etc person we have allowed the other person or event to overtake us. None of this has to happen if you remember you're the person that is really making yourself miserable because of your own inner outlook. Some people do it so often its so automatic they are forever blaming other people for why they feel bad or can't find what they are looking for. They play the blame game so much, they are utterly lost.

I think how religions interpret things out of the bible that are positive and expansive, freeing and pervasive examples in physical life and they warp them into ugly rules that everyone must follow otherwise they are condemned to something horrible. Certain rules are completely unnatural to human life and age people till they succumb to an early grave of disease. I would only use information is the bible and see it as positive if I can test it and see if it proves to be true under scrutiny, experience and practice. I wouldn't immeditately assume that all of it is true, and a lot of people do.

Going along with the theme of "the kingdom of heaven is within you" you also ultimately wouldn't have to eat, because there would come a time where you could have your nutrients in another manner without having to eat anything that once was deemed as food. That's a long way off Im sure. (insert loud laugh here) Also the kingdom of heaven concept is a totally mental/emotional and higher plane energetic phenomena, so it wouldn't be referring to something physical. This is just what Ive learned along the way and what I sense.

I wonder what people would do with all that time they would save if they didn't have to eat.. would more movies be made?

He wasn't referring to food obviously,
Well, yes, he was, actually. At least by Mark's account of the story.

he was referring to emotional and spiritual concerns. Most diseases & issues Ive found are 98% diet related.
Well, on the physical level there are matters of nutrition, health, and disease that of course do need to be understood and respected. But his point was that there are no negative spiritual consequences due to failure to follow religious dietary rules and purification rituals.

"Do you not perceive that whatever enters a man from outside cannot defile him, because it does not enter his heart, but his stomach, and is eliminated, thus purifying all foods?" And he said, "What comes out of a man, that defiles a man. For from within, out of the heart of men proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, licentiousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness. All these evil things come from within and defile a man."


Our will and decisions triggered by the negative experiences from others or events that we experience in the world make us miserable or jaded, only if we let it. In fact if we come out of a bad situation a negative, hopeless etc person we have allowed the other person or event to overtake us. None of this has to happen if you remember you're the person that is really making yourself miserable because of your own inner outlook. Some people do it so often its so automatic they are forever blaming other people for why they feel bad or can't find what they are looking for. They play the blame game so much, they are utterly lost.
Yes, as long as we think someone else is doing it to us, or forcing us to do it, we haven't yet learned the lesson.

I think how religions interpret things out of the bible that are positive and expansive, freeing and pervasive examples in physical life and they warp them into ugly rules that everyone must follow otherwise they are condemned to something horrible. Certain rules are completely unnatural to human life and age people till they succumb to an early grave of disease. I would only use information is the bible and see it as positive if I can test it and see if it proves to be true under scrutiny, experience and practice. I wouldn't immeditately assume that all of it is true, and a lot of people do.
I agree. Such a use of the Bible amounts to book worship--a form of idolatry, as I see it.

Going along with the theme of "the kingdom of heaven is within you" you also ultimately wouldn't have to eat, because there would come a time where you could have your nutrients in another manner without having to eat anything that once was deemed as food. That's a long way off Im sure. (insert loud laugh here)
How far off depends on who you ask, I guess: Breatharians/Ascension (http://www.breatharian.com/)

Also the kingdom of heaven concept is a totally mental/emotional and higher plane energetic phenomena, so it wouldn't be referring to something physical.
Oh, I think it's intimately involved with the physical. The action of Spirit isn't to leave the physical behind, but to "raise it up" to a vibration level that is coherent with the Spiritual. The Buddha came back for this purpose after achieving enlightenment. Jesus taught his disciples to pray "Thy kingdom come...in earth as it is in heaven". Mystics and sages teach "As above, so below."

Its all life, some we can eat some we cannot.
How do you decide which forms of life are OK to eat and which ones aren't?

What do you mean profane?
Not sacred, mundane, common, spiritually inert.

How do you decide which forms of life are OK to eat and which ones aren't?

Not sacred, mundane, common, spiritually inert.

Well Im not interested in bickering with you. Only the retarded would know what's not right.. its pretty obvious that anything that has a similar physiology to us is practically cannabilism, although that is not accepted because of worldwide denial. Having some compassion and understanding would go far in understanding that suffering is not acceptable in this world. The pretense is annoying.

Well, yes, he was, actually. At least by Mark's account of the story.



Who's mark?


Oh, I think it's intimately involved with the physical. The action of Spirit isn't to leave the physical behind, but to "raise it up" to a vibration level that is coherent with the Spiritual. The Buddha came back for this purpose after achieving enlightenment. Jesus taught his disciples to pray "Thy kingdom come...in earth as it is in heaven". Mystics and sages teach "As above, so below."





We always leave the spirit behind, people believe they are chained to this planet, but those are people who just do what they are told. I don't follow any religions because as soon as you begin believing in one you close your mind to other ideas. I don't deal in beliefs much, other than.. I believe I am hungry or thirsty, etc. I love to do independent research, sometimes my research matches that of what has come before. What others have discovered in their books and poetry or recordings..

You know what is the most annoying thing? When I am writing to someone and they say "Oh thats Einstein" or "Thats Nietzsche's philsophy". I am adamant.. "No!!! thats ME!!!". Lol

I do have my original thoughts simply because someone else also has discovered them doesn't necessarily mean they own those observations or discoveries, they simply recorded them in some way and passed them on before their demise or after.

Maddening. Lol:p

I do however love most of all.. to find my OWN thang.

Considering what I know.. "as Earth as it is in Heaven" means to me only what I think it does based on what Ive learned. If this is some vibrational construct created out of energy, than yes its like heaven in the fact that its energy, but its different energy. Just as it is easier to dissipate a cloud or create a rainstorm with ones own mind , than it is to solve the riddles of a relationship with someone else!

Argh!

Well Im not interested in bickering with you. Only the retarded would know whats not right.
I was interested in where and how you draw the line for yourself, not in how you rate the mental capacity of those who draw it in a different place or in a different way than you do.

. its pretty obvious that anything that has a similiar physiology to us is practically cannabilism,
That was the question: How dissimilar does their physiology have to be for it to be OK to eat them--are fish, crustaceans, and mollusks OK? How about bugs? Man Eating Bugs - Review Whole Earth (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0GER/is_1999_Spring/ai_54321428)

We always leave the spirit behind,
Is this really what you meant to say?

people believe they are chained to this planet,
I hope and trust that it's possible to participate in harmonizing the material and spiritual realms without believing that I'm "chained to this planet".

I was interested in where and how you draw the line for yourself, not in how you rate the mental capacity of those who draw it in a different place or in a different way than you do.

That was the question: How dissimilar does their physiology have to be for it to be OK to eat them--are fish, crustaceans, and mollusks OK? How about bugs? Man Eating Bugs - Review Whole Earth (http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0GER/is_1999_Spring/ai_54321428)

Isn't this obvious. I don't eat any of that. It ages people on top of it all.

Well I know some people who have to separate all my comments and answer each one directly. Its neverending.

Is this really what you meant to say?

I hope and trust that it's possible to participate in harmonizing the material and spiritual realms without believing that I'm "chained to this planet".

Of course not, we leave the body behind. People who are interested in the addiction of physical lives are chained to this planet. Anyone researching that would discover this if the were looking in the right areas to find it. What is it that you think? I wouldn't be able to find everything Ive discovered by googling it.
Although there are helpful links to many ideas Ive discovered.

Im posting in snippets, to anyone outside reading this, it might not even make sense unless I wrote extensively of it. Its too easy to make it look ridiculous if they aren't familiar with the ideas. Yes the mental capacity has a LOT to do with healthy eating, etc etc. It's the mental capacity that demonstrates if you eat live food and healthily you live longer, look younger & as a result are smarter, but then you had to be smart to actually eat that way, it's the mental capacity that denies or is unaware that if you eat unsafely you will die from various unsafe ways of eating that result in diet related diseases like heart attacks, heart disease (high cholesterol) diabetes and cancer. Although some is "genetic" its mostly bad diets that create these problems. Those that don't aren't lucky, they have a higher genetic propensity for health, and/or positive attitude as well as eat healthy foods in addition to the junk they eat.

"as Earth as it is in Heaven" means to me only what I think it does based on what Ive learned. If this is some vibrational construct created out of energy, than yes its like heaven in the fact that its energy, but its different energy.
Different in what way?

Isnt this obvious.
Not to me, that's why I asked the question. But if you'd rather not answer it, I can accept that.


People who are interested in the addiction of physical lives are chained to this planet.... What is it that you think?
I think it's a great privilege and an invaluable education for self-aware spiritual beings to become physically embodied. Like any good thing, I suppose it's possible that some may become too attached to it temporarily. But generally speaking, I think embodiment is chosen voluntarily and for good spiritual reasons, not as a result of coercion or addiction.

Not to me, that's why I asked the question. But if you'd rather not answer it, I can accept that.


I think it's a great privilege and an invaluable education for self-aware spiritual beings to become physically embodied. Like any good thing, I suppose it's possible that some may become too attached to it temporarily. But generally speaking, I think embodiment is chosen voluntarily and for good spiritual reasons, not as a result of coercion or addiction.

In my past life regressions, that is nearly always true, although the guide's influence and help in between.. "Lives". With my baby sister though, she just "followed orders". When I asked her why she didn't think she had a say the last time she came here, she just said "They are older and know more than I do". I told her she still can choose what she wants. She said "Im very tired of coming here". Could be because she splits into three each time. Its draining.

I regressed an indian guy who recognized my photos as someone he used to be with in a past life and he had present conscious recall in some detail of us. He really wanted a regression so we set one up, he'd tried but had never been hypnotised before (he worked for the FBI, was a stunt driver, etc etc so he had that mentality) and wondered if he could. Others had failed to hypnotise him, with me he went under immediately, and he recalled two lives we had in Scotland and Ireland. They were beautiful and yet sad, and he was attracted to me again now, but I was not.

I would have liked to have been his friend though.

He always had this "reoccurring theme" that most people do, and his was the need to save masses of the "unwashed and unseen" time after time at the expense of his love life, so naturally I always suffered because he always got killed. He apologized to me while he was under and I told him I couldn't remember it anyway, and he said I was blocking it. I told him considering the story no wonder I was, because it was unbelievably annoying (lol) and sad. I was always abandoned by someone who wanted to "save the world". Well.. he said "who's going to save them if I don't, noone can do it as well as I can, the others are knuckleheads" (using his vernacular of this day). I suggested that he train others because he would be an incredible trainer. This way he didn't feel as though it was all up to him, and he could leave these people in his place once he was no longer in the world and they would continue for him.

He told me sounding surprised "I have never thought of it like that before".. and I think that is a seed for change in his pattern and his way of being that has lasted hundreds of years, so that is good.

It was one of my favorite regressions.. sigh.

What's really neat is talking through people to their old selves because those old selves always believe they are still alive, they are, but its so very weird. That's why I was so interested in my multiple personality friend, I could relate to that because of my regressions and dealing with all the personalities of other lives. There's a huge difference though between past life personalities and multiple personality personalities. In past life personalities the integrity of that person is always stored and alive in a very real way. Their integrity is never lost. However it is more like reawakening a memory where a soul dons a character role in a play.

With MP the consciousness of the brain is fragmented and living in different areas of the brain so that they develop their own individuality. They aren't memories, they are real time.

Ive heard that "spirit" for lack of a better word considers people who come to Earth "brave and courageous" LMAO! I wonder if its more for the fear of death than anything else, and having to experience it and everyone else's, when I think of it, that one of the worst things for me, even though intellectually I know so much about it. That's not the same as emotionally, or even experientially.

I just meant that its always a persons choice to come back but many do become addicted to "life" not to finish what they didn't finish but to feel physical again.

Of course everyone's at a different stage of evolution, many at the same level and smaller percentages below and above that, Im sure you know that though.

Different in what way?

Different energies have different signatures. They oscillate different patterns and at different speeds, you know. The slower the speed the more physical, the faster the more "etheric"..
That's why its easier to dissolve a cloud with ones mental energy than it is to make a person CHANGE. Lol.. Its easier to influence a cloud than a human being, and I think most people probably think it's the other way around.

Clouds & rainwater have higher faster vibrational signatures, humans are much slower. A stone is more dense than a human. Animals are higher than humans and stones, but slower than clouds.

Of course everyones at a different stage of evolution, many at the same level and smaller percentages below and above that, Im sure you know that though.
Actually, I'm pretty skeptical of any kind of unidirectional "ascending the ladder" model of the spiritual endeavor. I take it as significant that in Jacob's dream, for example, the "angels of God" were both ascending and descending. The descent has just as much spiritual purpose and value as the ascent. This is why we can't assume that those who appear to be "below us" on the ladder are our spiritual inferiors. As spiritual beings, we are all equal, whichever direction we're going, or whatever physical density we happen to have at the moment.

Oh I didn't even know you had commented, Ive been away for months.

Well that is not what I implied anyway, but it's a common mistake that most people make. They usually make it out of feelings of insecurity "Im not inferior to you" but that's not what I wrote anyway, although it's the common thing for most to interpret because of their insecurity and the nescent stirring knowings that can't be ignored from deep within their subconscious. In the meantime they aren't doing a THING to further their evolution, they just want to talk or write about how they don't believe one person is "inferior" to another who is "superior" they use those terms because they think of life as oppositional forces.

Some people are better at one thing than others, that's an obvious thing about life.. some people are creating and manifesting very negative things on Earth, and I wouldn't say that they are ahead of the game at all if they are bringing damage to the world.. most have been contributing to the raping of the world and cruelty to animals, and I hardly see that as any kind of higher consciousness or evolution, so those things exist and whatever hurts another whether it be human or animal is obviously the wrong thing to do, because you wouldn't want it to happen to you, would you?

Then there is the denial that people go into that serves not themselves nor anyone. That's a secondary issue and disallows them from seeing what's going on. How many people live with their head in the sand like ostrichs, and they do this because its comfortable, then they reach across the chair spouting philosophy or intelligent thought without having created any change at all in this world towards a better world, because they are part of the same rituals that create pain to others.

That is not evolution, that is deevolution, or a silent craziness and indifference that they ignore. It is beyond insideous. It's a commonplace mass agreed upon reality that is so intact most people think they are right and arrogantly doing the right thing, so for example, therefore animals continue dying for "food" that is not required for us to live and actually contributes to the human diseases, ie: obesity, heart disease, cancer and diabetes, etc. of so many people, so how is that a mark of evolution. Its not, its deevolution. In that madness how is free thought to bloom when its been deadened and stricken dumb by those suppressors who command that compassion be made fun of and even ridiculed. People have been well brainwashed and its to their disadvantage.. so when they eat some cacique' brand cheese and their children drop dead, or they eat tainted meat and their children get sick or die, or if a plane tunnels into the world trade center... WHY is it a surprise.

It takes a great deal of courage to come out of denial, and that's also part of what it means to evolve. You can't argue when life is dying, when animals are dying, when people die as a result that humans don't give a damn about animals so why would they have any respect for humans?


This is the great part of what IT MEANS to evolve as a human being, to become aware, to speak out against violence and most of all to walk the walk, to do.












Actually, I'm pretty skeptical of any kind of unidirectional "ascending the ladder" model of the spiritual endeavor. I take it as significant that in Jacob's dream, for example, the "angels of God" were both ascending and descending. The descent has just as much spiritual purpose and value as the ascent. This is why we can't assume that those who appear to be "below us" on the ladder are our spiritual inferiors. As spiritual beings, we are all equal, whichever direction we're going, or whatever physical density we happen to have at the moment.

Well that is not what I implied anyway, but its a common mistake that most people make. They usually make it out of feelings of insecurity "Im not inferior to you" but thats not what I wrote anyway, although its the common thing for most to interpret because of their insecurity and the nescent stirring knowings that can't be ignored from deep within their subconscious. In the meantime they arent doing a THING to further their evolution, they just want to talk or write about how they don't believe one person is "inferior" to another who is "superior" they use those terms because they think of life as oppositional forces.

Some people are better at one thing than others, thats an obvious thing about life.. some people are creating and manifesting very negative things on Earth, and I wouldnt say that they are ahead of the game at all if they are bringing damage to the world.. most have been contributing to the raping of the world and cruelty to animals, and I hardly see that as any kind of higher consciousness or evolution, so those things exist and whatever hurts another whether it be human or animal is obviously the wrong thing to do, because you wouldnt want it to happen to you, would you??

Then there is the denial that people go into that serves not themselves nor anyone. Thats a secondary issue and disallows them from seeing whats going on. How many people live with their head in the sand like ostrichs, and they do this because its comfortable, then they reach across the chair spouting philosophy or intelligent thought without having created any change at all in this world towards a better world, because they are part of the same rituals that create pain to others.

That is not evolution, that is deevolution, or a silent craziness and indifference that they ignore. It is beyond insideous. Its a commonplace mass agreed upon reality that is so intact most people think they are right and arrogantly doing the right thing, so for example, therefore animals continue dying for "food" that is not required for us to live and actually contributes to the human diseases, ie: obesity, heart disease, cancer and diabetes, etc. of so many people, so how is that a mark of evolution. Its not, its deevolution. In that madness how is free thought to bloom when its been deadened and stricken dumb by those suppressors who command that compassion be made fun of and even ridiculed. People have been well brainwashed and its to their disadvantage.. so when they eat some cacique' brand cheese and their children drop dead, or they eat tainted meat and their children get sick or die, or if a plane tunnels into the world trade center... WHY is it a surprise.


Have any of these people that you speak of in the third person actually posted on this thread? Are you making these judgments and leveling these accusations at anyone in particular, or just at "most people" or "some people" who may or may not happen to read this thread?

Have any of these people that you speak of in the third person actually posted on this thread? Are you making these judgments and leveling these accusations at anyone in particular, or just at "most people" or "some people" who may or may not happen to read this thread?

You know if you're going to start a fight with me, don't ever post to me again. These aren't accusations and Im not interested in what you're stating here.

The ideas about higher consciousness are true, they are completely common sense. I don't know what you have a problem understanding, any intelligent person would understand them unless they were massively in denial. I haven't been here in months and I have to read this. To some these concepts are so clear and easy to understand.

What I referred to is how most people are in general. I don't know any of these people on these forums.

cerulean--

I don't know who or what you're so angry at, but I don't think it's me. Your posts are filled with disdain, contempt, ridicule, superiority and put-downs. If that reflects your "ideas of higher consciousness", I want no part of it.

cerulean,

Get rid of this sick man and learn to make your own excitement in life.

Love Life :)


Best wishes on your journey through life,

I had a theory he was bipolar a long time ago, but I didn't know how right I was, until I heard his story as I got to know him, and began to study what "bipolar" means online.

He has all the classic symptoms, the rages, jealousies, sleeping patterns, and he's hallucinating. He has beliefs about me that are borne from his insecurity, but are not true at all. He thinks that I'm conducting a phone sex business when Im not around him!

One day he's apologetic and nice and generous, and the next day (because I didnt call soon enough in his mind or another reason) he's accusing me of chatting & flirting and cybering other men online.

Truth is, I abandoned all my online friends, told them Im dating so its no secret, and I never cybered them to begin with. I have done everything right, and IM STILL being damned! Im being accused of things Im not doing! Its driving me crazy. I fight with him, and he has me screaming after I listen to him scream at me for days. He's pushed me over the edge. I hate going down to his level and now I refuse to. If I knew more people who have had experiences with bipolars, maybe I could gain some leverage and look at all of this from a new angle, so as not to be so upset about it.

Mostly I wish to learn HOW TO TALK TO HIM. I realize that he really doesn't need much of a reason to get triggered, but perhaps theres a way to deal with him without it getting too out of control.

I asked him and then demanded that he see a doctor, but he believes he doesn't have a problem. He just says "You go see a doctor". Which sounds stupid and childish.

I explained that I am not making stuff up and accusing him of it as he is. I explain things to him until he grows quiet and then says 'You know..... this is depressing, I just want to have a good night, and I feel like Im being tortured".

Thats when I say "HOW DO YOU THINK I FEEL?? This isn't about me torturing you, this is me trying to make you realize the severity of this situation and how you can't handle it alone and never could and you must do something about it or we are never going to know each other in the future because all hope will be lost".

He says "So you don't want to see me anymore??" I say "NO thats not what I'm saying, I'm saying if you don't get help, you will leave me no choice. It's obvious you are going in cycles with your emotions, up and down and I'm along for the ride. I don't want to be part of that ride!".

All I am telling him, is to seek help. I say "Whats so hard about swallowing a pill if it will make you more stable right now?". He says he doesn't want to be on pills. I outline the new findings on bipolarism, how bipolars live 7 yrs less than your average person who doesn't have bipolar disorder.. how bipolarism actually shrinks the brain, and kills brain cells, and how he should do something before its too late.

He makes light of the times when he rages. Sometimes he even imitates himself when he was mad. Recently I was going to meet him in a park to go hiking, and he got upset about something that was nothing to get upset about, met me at the park, and wrenched my car door open.. I thought it was some wild man rapist. He begins to scream at the top of his lungs to 'get out of the car, this is a stolen car!" and calling me names in front of stunned people who are in the park playing frisbee and just gaping at us.

He was so loud and I was so embarrassed, I just vanished into the thickeness of the park until noone could see me. Hearing one guy actually LAUGH at this fiasco.

I stayed in the park for a while, and realized that I didnt have my car. I got tons of phone calls from him, screaming that he needed to give me a ride home. I said "don't bother".. he was the last person I wanted to see!

I walked 4 miles home, it took me 3 1/2 hours to do so, but at least I didn't have to have him pick me up.

I can't take it anymore. When I think of him now, I flash on things we used to do, where we'd go to eat, how funny he is when he's "Normal".. how we went to clubs, and joked and had good times. I feel so sad for him. I feel so bad for him because I know he has a disease.

However when I urge him to go to a doctor, he will not budge. I ask him "What part of this do you really believe is normal?"

I don't know what to do or say to him to convince him to go.

Now Im beginning to feel that not marching into a doctors office with him and just being around him at all, is making me an enabler, because I realize how sick he is. I just can't ignore it like he's doing.

I feel really upset about this and incredibly sorry for him. I can't imagine what it must be like to have your brain moving so fast as it is with him. I can't imagine or relate to it, nor would I want to. He seems to think he can function the way he is, but I ask him "How can you when you can't get along with me because you're always raging? You call that managing your anger problem?".

Im all logical and rational and he's just inane and flippant, or he'll hang up and pretend Im attacking him by telling him its high time for him to see a counselor. Years ago before I met him he went to a therapist and unfortunately he found a really inept one, one that tossed some lithium his way and basically told him to "call him in the morning".

The lithium & other drugs he was prescribed played havoc with his mind and he was really turned off to meds. Since that bad experience he's not wanted to try it again. This is the danger with counselors or doctors who rush you through a session, throw some meds at you, and don't address all your problems and make light of the situation. If he had had a good doctor, I wouldnt be tortured by this person now.

Either way, suggestions anyone?
im am biopolor but i do not accuse people of cheating on me for stupid reason's its not tht hes just biopolor becouse yes i do hav horrible mood swings and go throw depression for no reason and yell and then 10 minutes later its like nothings happened at all well at less thtz wht my parents say i do but i hav never accused someone on cheating on me for talking to theam online or phone* Sometimes its hard to not get fustrated easily like on the drop of a dime but he seems to have other problems too and u need to ask him y does he have to feel so insecure..did u ever do anything to even give him the idea u may cheat on him?

Wow--Cerulean.. You are describing EXACTLY what I am going through now. I have been with my boyfriend about a little over a year and the past 6 months have been pure hell at times. I thought for a minute we were talking of the same person.Whew! It is mentally and physically draining on my part I totally feel your pain--email me if you like.. Mine is supposedly going for an appointment within the next week or so to get on some type of medication to control his raging,anger,jealousy, just I guess to slow his thought process down.BillyJoeBob also says he is bi-polar and yup I feel as if he makes me feel like a lunatic at times because he will go into a raging yelling anger fit over something so SMALL and normal people wouldn't make a big deal of but to mine (everything is so BLOWn out of proportion its not funny) then like 15 -20 min later its like nothing EVER happened and I am left feeling like I hear that twighlight zone music like wow did that really just happen and now he is OK and I am supposed to be OK with him after the things he just said and did--uhh Wheew! I cannot even explain the frustration I have dealing with him,but I love him and want him to get help and now on our last go round of me braeking up with him he realized I was serious and wants to get help--or at least we'll see what happens.He said all the usual I'm sorry's and will change but we have been down that road before --IT DOES NOT GET BETTER.. so if he doesn't get medication soon I have to think about ME and what this is doing to me--it is literally tearing me down--i too have eliminated ALL my friends because of his jealousy--even female friends(jealous of our closeness I guess) but YES Cerulean the FALSE accusations I get them all the time I have NEVER given this man any reason to think I would ever want another man but I get accused on the almost DAILY yup the accused of making phone calls while I'm at work--texting others,you name it he has said it or accused me of it.. WE LIVE TOGETHER I forgot to explain this and are best friends also so we do everything together so he has delusions all the time.. I do not know how much longer I can take this if medication is not gotten---I feel sorry for him also but when he is in a rage he cares NOTHING about my feeliings or if I cry or whatever--it is a CONSTANT up and down roller coaster ride I am READY to get off myself quite soon... The reason for tis post is to just let you know I COMPLETLEY understand you and what you are going through!!

My best wishes---But please make him go to the doctors--at least try again---