Just wanted to get people's opinion of who Jesus is to you and why you feel the way you do? No trick, just want to discuss...

He is a wonderful being with cool shoes

Jesus is my all in all

I'm not sure how to answer that effectively.

I've known who Jesus IS for many, many years.

Only in the last decade or so have I begun to KNOW JESUS.

There's a huge difference between the two, I think.

As for me, I'll try and explain my relationship to him as best I can.

TO ME, JESUS IS:

The best friend I've ever had, because he's not only loving, but he believes in tough love sometimes, and I always come out a better man for it.

The one who hears my prayers, and answers them. Not always the way I envision, but the best way nonetheless. See #1.

My defender against evil.

My provider, in good times and in lean times. I haven't starved yet.

Tender enough to gently stroke a child's cheek or hair, yet tough enough to tip tables, make whips, and one day, come back to earth with sword a'swingin'.

Someone who causes even Satan himself and all the forces of evil to tremble with fear, yet someone whom I have no cause to fear.

A masterful teacher, by word and by example.

A manly man. The first 30 years of his life were spent as a carpenter, and that's long before power tools! He could fish and live off the land, and that makes him a role model in that area.

Not afraid to cry.

Someone who wields enormous power, but only uses his power when it is just and right to so. Self discipline is knowing you CAN, but sometimes choosing NOT to when no good purpose would come from it.

The only acceptable substitute worthy to take on the sins of the whole world--past, present, and future--and wipe them clean for anyone who believes and calls upon him for forgivenes.

The one into whose hands I effectively drove nails into, because of my own selfish pride and sins, yet he forgives me anyway.

The only one I can truly trust and count on. People will let you down if you trust them enough. Me, you, our spouses, our best friends. We're all human, and we will all disappoint those we love. Rather than turn bitter from those times, they only serve to train my eyes more upon the one who will NEVER let me down or abuse my trust.

The one who freely offers me redemption and salvation and eternal life, which I humbly and tearfully accept, though I am as unworthy as they come.

The one whose spiritual lap I can crawl up in to and cry and be comforted and find rest and peace, before going back out into the battleground that is this world.

The one who sent me my wife and gave me my kids.

I'm sure there's more, because every day I learn more about him as our relationship unfolds. Like a stubborn child I ask too many questions and cry "foul!" too many times. But like a patient and loving father, he answers the questions and soothes the aches.

I love him, and want to be more like him. I'm failing miserably many days, but he won't give up on me.

He said so.

My Lord, my Savior and my God.

A beacon that can help people to help themselves

I can only repeat what Saint Thomas and Fr_Chuck said.

My Lord and My God. And of course, My Savior.

Just wanted to get people's opinion of who Jesus is to you and why you feel the way you do? no trick, just want to discuss...

Jesus is God (John 1:1) manifest in the flesh (1 Tim 3:16), born of
A virgin (Is 7:14), lived a perfect sinless life (Heb 4:15).
He is from everlasting (Micah 5:2), the creator of all that exists
(Col 1:16). He is God (John 1:1), one of the three persons of the
Trinity (Is 48:16-17), who came to earth in order that he might give
His life as a sacrifice to pay for the sins of all (Mark 10:45), that
Whosoever would receive that free gift of salvation might not
Perish but have everlasting life (John 3:16-17). Those who reject
Him have condemned themselves (John 3:17) and are destined to
An eternity in the lake of fire (Rev 20:15). No one has an excuse
Because the truth of God is revealed to us all (Rom 1:20), and all
Have sinned (Rom 3:23), thus are deserving of the penalty.
He died on the cross (Luke 23:26), was buried and was resurrected
On the third day (Mark 16:6) and after many days, rose up directly
Into heaven (Acts 1:9-11)to sit at the right hand of the Father
(1 Peter 3:22). He is the First and the Last, the Alpha and the
Omega (Rev 1:8,11), and the one who will at the end be the judge
Of all (2 Tim 4:1).

When the veil was ripped from the Holy of Holies (Matt 27:51), it
Was symbolic of the fact that through Christ we no longer need a
Human priest to intercede for us who sacrifices cannot take away
Sins (Heb 10:11), for those who worship (Heb 1:6) Jesus as God
(Heb 1:8), and receive Him and His sacrifice on the cross as
Saviour are no longer condemned (John 3:17), but are a member of
The priesthood of believers (1 Pet 2:5), over whom there is but one
High Priest, Jesus Christ (Heb 8:1-2).

That is the Jesus whom I worship and follow.

Jesus was just a man if he really existed, & I believe he did. He was not the son of God, not the christ, not a prophet. I doubt he really said most of the things the New Testament ascribes to him, & if he did then he was probably mentally unstable. Many men in modern times have claimed to be God & duped people into dying for them (e.g. Jim Jones, David Koresh, Marshal Applewhite). There were many others before Jesus who made this claim, & many after him. If Jesus really thought he was God then he was just another Jim Jones or David Koresh, & billions have been duped into believing it.

Jesus was just a man if he really existed, & I believe he did. He was not the son of God, not the christ, not a prophet. I doubt he really said most of the things the New Testament ascribes to him, & if he did then he was probably mentally unstable. Many men in modern times have claimed to be God & duped people into dying for them (e.g., Jim Jones, David Koresh, Marshal Applewhite). There were many others before Jesus who made this claim, & many after him. If Jesus really thought he was God then he was just another Jim Jones or David Koresh, & billions have been duped into believing it.


I don't know those you refer to koresh applewhite or the other many who claim to be christ. However we are still talking about Jesus 2000 years later.

In 2000 years will anyone know you ever existed deist?

Although so many people seem to think otherwise here,

Jesus is someone who loves you know matter what you do or have done.

And he looks at who you are, not what you are. For example:

Everyone has a chance to be in heaven whether you are a Christian.

He also is friendly, giving, fair, loyal and probably has the most friends in the world!

To me, Jesus is this guy that lived around year 0. I don't really think he was anything special. He may have been a great guy, but that would be about it.
If I were into the bible, and believing what it said, I still don't know that I would believe in the new testament. I mean, God sent his ONLY son to DIE, for what? To 'save us from our sins'? I've got a better idea... he could follow his own word, show love to the sons of jesus for a thousand generations, since he loved him, not cause suffering to someone who wasn't deserved of it... I know that the reasoning behind this is that he was the ultimate sacrifice, but this is god. He is the almighty. How about he just SAYS 'hey guys, no more sacrafices. I'll forgive you of your sins. Kbye.' And yes, I know that there would be lot sof skeptics saying that it wasn't really the word of god, and they would continue their sacrifices, but I'm pretty sure that would happen anyway with Jesus, and people not believe that he was the son of god.

So, to answer your question, I think Jesus was probably some really nice, good natured guy that lived a long time ago.

What a beautiful question.

Jesus is love joy and peace. He is the Son of God. He is my heart, my saviour and my protector. When I listen, I can only smile and be happy, when I turn a deaf ear, seems only sadness appears.

He is our friend, our Saviour and our Light. And as Sgt Hardkore said so beautifully,

He loves all of us. No matter, who we are, what we look like, how many times we have fallen, he will always be there to help us up as long as we ask him.

He just fills my heart with such joy and love!

Thank you for asking this beautiful question.

Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. No one gets to the Father but through him (John 14:6).

Although so many people seem to think otherwise here,

jesus is someone who loves you know matter what you do or have done.

And he looks at who you are, not what you are. For example:

Everyone has a chance to be in heaven whether or not you are a Christian.

He also is friendly, giving, fair, loyal and probably has the most friends in the world!


[/I]In order to inherit everlasting life you must be born again (John 3:3). That means you repent of your sins, turn away from them, and put your trust and faith in Jesus Christ.

Just wanted to get people's opinion of who Jesus is to you and why you feel the way you do? no trick, just want to discuss...
Jesus to me is a religious sect leader who got lucky and became a founder of one of world's largest religion. Nothing more and nothing less.

To me, jesus is a saving grace, and a loving saviour, the one thing in my life that I know is the right way, the only sure thing. Im so far from him, and it hurts more than anything else in the world. Hes the king of kings, saviour of all, and I know that he would have died on that cross, even if it was just me who needed saving. He loves us all, no matter how far we fall, no matter how much we hurt each other. Even if I can't feel him, even if I can't get that connection going, I will still try to follow him, for ever and ever because I love my god.

Thank you to all that have posted and who will post. This was great to see the way people feel about our Savior. Many who haven't posted but have just viewed this will undoubtedly be affected by these responses and the work of the Holy Spirit. Thanks again and God bless.

He is:
Light
Awsome
Peace
Love
Joy
My King
My Savior
My Redeemer
"The one who filles the hole in my life/heart"- xD
The Unchanging one
The Alpha and Omega
The Beginning and the End
The Son of God
I could go on forever and ever(Etc!)

XD I love it.

Just wanted to get people's opinion of who Jesus is to you and why you feel the way you do? no trick, just want to discuss...
he's just a made up character of the jews... there's a god...but the existence of jesus is yet to be proven...

he's just a made up character of the jews... there's a god...but the existence of jesus is yet to be proven...

There is not a single credible historian, Christian or secular, who denies the existence of Jesus.

My king, My friend, my love, my purpose.

he's just a made up character of the jews... there's a god...but the existence of jesus is yet to be proven...

Historical Jesus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_Jesus)

But of corse! I love this answer. :]

Jesus is the one who saved me from my sins and from myself. A destructive course of life was chosen when I chose to curse God for what I mistakenly believed as a child was His taking my family apart. I fell into drugs and sexual addiction and when I cried out to the LORD to save me or let me die, He chose to save me. Why He loves me (and He tells me every day in His Word) I don't quite understand. I am thankful that He has called me as His own and called me to a closer walk with Him. I am thankful that He is the one who makes my stains to be washed away as I cannot ever make myself holy enough to be in His presence. I am thankful that He whispers His love in my heart when the cares of this world become too much for me to bear. I am thankful that He is the Author and Finisher of my faith. If it were not for Him I would not have this faith as everyone is given a measure of faith. He instills in me a desire to obey Him, to love Him, to know Him more. He is the Everlasting from Everlasting to Everlasting, the One who is, Who was and Who is to come. He is all I ever need, even though I decieve myself into believing otherwise. He will supply my ever need if I will just sit back and let Him be my God, He said He'd do this for me.

There is not a single credible historian, Christian or secular, who denies the existence of Jesus.

Only because as soon as he says that Jesus didn't exist, you would no longer think that he was credible. Since like many other things we all have an idea of what is credible but my definition can very greatly to yours.

There is not a single credible historian, Christian or secular, who denies the existence of Jesus.
I believe that there are records that show a man named Jesus did live around that time. That's probably why nobody denies he existed. There are, however, people who believe he existed, but deny that he was a savior. I usually call these people "Jewish".
Judaism's view of Jesus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_view_of_Jesus)

I believe that there are records that show a man named Jesus did live around that time. That's probably why nobody denies he existed. There are, however, people who believe he existed, but deny that he was a savior. I usually call these people "Jewish".


Jesus Himself, God manifest in the flesh (1 Tim 3:16) as well as all of the apostles who held to His divinity were also Jewish, and we have their testimonies.

Jesus Himself, God manifest in the flesh (1 Tim 3:16) as well as all of the apostles who held to His divinity were also Jewish, and we have their testimonies.Okay, good for you, but like I was saying, there are still credible people who say that Jesus wasn't a savior. Not to say that there aren't credible people who say he IS a savior. Please stop quoting scripture at me, it's not doing you any good.

Okay, good for you, but like I was saying, there are still credible people who say that Jesus wasn't a savior. Not to say that there aren't credible people who say he IS a savior. Please stop quoting scripture at me, it's not doing you any good.

The point is, anyone can believe what they want but that does not make it true. You can believe as you wish, but are you the font of all knowledge? No. So we need to go to other sources, and when we have the word of God, and prophetic statements that go back hundreds or thousands of years prior to the birth of Christ, giving details prophecies that were fulfilled by Christ which undeniable refer to Him as God, then it because the Bible vs your word.

The point is, anyone can believe what they want but that does not make it true. You can believe as you wish, but are you the font of all knowledge? No. So we need to go to other sources, and when we have the word of God, and prophetic statements that go back hundreds or thousands of years prior to the birth of Christ, giving details prophecies that were fulfilled by Christ which undeniable refer to Him as God, then it because the Bible vs your word.
The same can be said for the bible, though. You can believe what you want, and if you choose to believe that what is in the bible actually happened, then go right ahead. Nobody can stop you. I never said I was the front of all knowledge. I'm not. I don't believe the bible is either. If you do, that's fine, but quoting scripture from the bible at me isn't going to do you any good in trying to get me to believe something other than what I do already.

Like I've stated already, I was just trying to point out that yes, there ARE credible people who say that Jesus wasn't a savior. And also, like I've said already, if you don't agree with that, it's fine, because we're each allowed to have our own opinions. It's good that you stand up for your beliefs, but please stop trying to change mine.

The same can be said for the bible, though. You can believe what you want, and if you choose to believe that what is in the bible actually happened, then go right ahead. Nobody can stop you. I never said I was the front of all knowledge. I'm not. I don't believe the bible is either. If you do, that's fine, but quoting scripture from the bible at me isn't going to do you any good in trying to get me to believe somthing other than what I do already.

Like i've stated already, I was just trying to point out that yes, there ARE credible people who say that Jesus wasn't a savior. And also, like I've said already, if you don't agree with that, it's fine, because we're each allowed to have our own opinions. It's good that you stand up for your beliefs, but please stop trying to change mine.

The validity of the Bible is well established. If you wish to pit your personal credibility against the Bible, then please enlighten us as to what validates your credibility, and why should we believe you rather than the Bible?

The validity of the Bible is well established. If you wish to pit your personal credibility against the Bible, then please enlighten us as to what validates your credibility, and why should we believe you rather than the Bible?
Since you're not listening, and I've said this all already, I'll just say it one last time.

1. I am not arguing against the validity of the bible. You can believe something other than what I do. I have no problem with that.
2. You are entitled to your own beliefs, and so am I. I am not trying to change what you believe, so please stop trying to shove the bible down my throat.
3. The intent of my earlier post was to inform you that there are a lot of credible people who don't believe that Jesus was a savior.

If you don't want to listen, that's fine, but this thread was an open question on who everyone believed Jesus was, and we should all be free to do so without being criticized, and without being told that our or anyone else's opinion is not credible.

I've already stated what I believe. If you want to know more, you can ask. If you want to argue, don't. I'm not responding to any more antagonistic remarks here.

Since you're not listening, and I've said this all already, I'll just say it one last time.

Sigh - why do some folk assume that you are not listening if you don't agree. :confused:


1. I am not arguing against the validity of the bible. You can believe something other than what I do. I have no problem with that.

So we agree that the Bible is valid. If that is the case, then you should accept use of it as a resource.


2. You are entitled to your own beliefs, and so am I. I am not trying to change what you believe, so please stop trying to shove the bible down my throat.

I don't know if you noticed, but you are on the Christianity board, so I will not stop using the Bible to validate my beliefs. If you are not comfortable with use of the Bible. I am left to wonder why you are on the Christianity board. :confused:


3. The intent of my earlier post was to inform you that there are a lot of credible people who don't believe that Jesus was a savior.

Everybody is welcome to believe as they wish, but that does not mean that all beliefs are equally credible.


If you don't want to listen, that's fine, but this thread was an open question on who everyone believed Jesus was, and we should all be free to do so without being criticized, and without being told that our or anyone else's opinion is not credible.

I listen, but unless you can validate your beliefs, then they remain solely that - your beliefs.


I've already stated what I believe. If you want to know more, you can ask. If you want to argue, don't. I'm not responding to any more antagonistic remarks here.

It is unfortunate if you cannot accept that someone might disagree with you without assuming that they are (1) not listening and (2) antagonistic. If that is true, should I assume that because you disagree with me that you are antagonistic and not listening? It goes both ways.

Just wanted to get people's opinion of who Jesus is to you and why you feel the way you do? no trick, just want to discuss...
Jesus to me, is the Jesus that the Bible tells us about, namely that Jesus is the second highest personage in the entire Universe, next to God himself. Jesus is not God himself, as the Bible plainly states, but Jesus is God's son, and its through Jesus' ransom sacrifice and shed blood that the way is open for me to have my sins forgiven by God, have a close, personal relationship with God (through Jesus, who is the mediator between God and man), and have the hope of everlasting life in the future here on the earth in paradise, enjoying perfect health forever.

To me, Jesus is our perfect Exemplar. He always acknowledged his lesser position in relation to his Father and his God, and he always referred to Him and his Word for guidance and direction, never leaning upon his own understanding. Jesus showed us the depth of not only his love for mankind, but the love he perfectly reflected from his Father. The miracles he performed during his time on earth were but a foregleam of the earth-wide miracles he will perform for obedient mankind in our near future. I certainly have a great deal of love and respect for Jesus, and not only for him but for God himself who willingly sacrificed his Son that we may have the hope of everlasting life. God, in heaven, had to watch as his only-begotten Son, was persecuted and tortured, all for the sake of God's name and for the larger scope of redeeming sinful mankind.

Jesus to me, is the Jesus that the Bible tells us about, namely that Jesus is the second highest personage in the entire Universe, next to God himself.

Phil 2:5-7
Christ Jesus, 6 who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,
NKJV


Jesus is not God himself

John 1:1-2
1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
NKJV


Jesus is God's son

You got one right - God the Son is the second person in the trinity.


, and its through Jesus' ransom sacrifice and shed blood that the way is open for me to have my sins forgiven by God, have a close, personal relationship with God (through Jesus, who is the mediator between God and man), and have the hope of everlasting life in the future here on the earth in paradise, enjoying perfect health forever.

The way is open, but unless you turn to the true Jesus and the true gospel, you are on your way to an eternity in the lake of fire.

Gal 1:6-9
6 I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel, 7 which is not another; but there are some who trouble you and want to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel to you than what we have preached to you, let him be accursed. 9 As we have said before, so now I say again, if anyone preaches any other gospel to you than what you have received, let him be accursed
NKJV

2 Cor 11:3-4
3 But I fear, lest somehow, as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, so your minds may be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4 For if he who comes preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or if you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted--you may well put up with it!
NKJV

Nice try, but using a faulty Bible translation and purposely misquoting the scriptures doesn't make the trinity teaching any less ridiculous and incorrect than it already is. All it does is continue to make you look foolish.

Nice try, but using a faulty Bible translation and purposely misquoting the scriptures doesn't make the trinity teaching any less ridiculous and incorrect than it already is. All it does is continue to make you look foolish.


Meh. I think that tj should let this one be. We all have our own opinions.

Nice try, but using a faulty Bible translation and purposely misquoting the scriptures doesn't make the trinity teaching any less ridiculous and incorrect than it already is. All it does is continue to make you look foolish.

I asked you before - give me the name of a single member of the NWT translation committee who was qualified to translate Biblical Greek and Hebrew.You make all sorts of statements, but I see that you are very slow to actually validate any of your claims.

Your accusations are only as good as the validation.

King James Version
John 1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2The same was in the beginning with God.

3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.



Nice try, but using a faulty Bible translation and purposely misquoting the scriptures doesn't make the trinity teaching any less ridiculous and incorrect than it already is. All it does is continue to make you look foolish.

I asked you before - give me the name of a single member of the NWT translation committee who was qualified to translate Biblical Greek and Hebrew.You make all sorts of statements, but I see that you are very slow to actually validate any of your claims.

Your accusations are only as good as the validation.


What you ask for is irrelevant. The translators of the NWT remain anonymous for reasons of not taking any credit for the translating work that was done; the holy scriptures stand on their own merits. You likewise make all sorts of statements, and never really validate what you claim, you just offer all sorts of illogical blustering in a futile attempt to help yourself.

King James Version
John 1
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2The same was in the beginning with God.

3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.

5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.






John 1:1

“and the word was a god.” The New Testament in an Improved Version, Upon the Basis of Archbishop Newcome’s New Translation: With a Corrected Text.

“and a god was the word.” The Emphatic Diaglott, interlinear reading, by Benjamin Wilson.

“and the Word was a divine being.” La Bible du Centenaire, L’Evangile selon Jean, by Maurice Goguel.

“and the Word was divine.” The Bible—An American Translation, by J. M. P. Smith and E. J. Goodspeed

“and of a divine kind was the Word.” Das Neue Testament, by Ludwig Thimme

“and the Word was a god.” New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures

“and the Word was a God.” The New Testament, by James L. Tomanek

“and a god (or, of a divine kind) was the Word.” Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Siegfried Schulz

“and godlike kind was the Logos.” Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Johannes Schneider

DOES saying that Jesus Christ is “a god” conflict with the Bible’s teaching that there is only one God? No, for at times the Bible employs that term to refer to mighty creatures. Psalm 8:5 reads: “You also proceeded to make him [man] a little less than godlike ones [Hebrew, ’elo·him′],” that is, angels. In Jesus’ defense against the charge of the Jews, that he claimed to be God, he noted that “the Law uses the word gods of those to whom the word of God was addressed,” that is, human judges. (John 10:34, 35, JB; Psalm 82:1-6) Even Satan is called “the god of this system of things” at 2 Corinthians 4:4.

Jesus has a position far higher than angels, imperfect men, or Satan. Since these are referred to as “gods,” mighty ones, surely Jesus can be and is “a god.” Because of his unique position in relation to Jehovah, Jesus is a “Mighty God.”—John 1:1; Isaiah 9:6.

But does not “Mighty God” with its capital letters indicate that Jesus is in some way equal to Jehovah God? Not at all. Isaiah merely prophesied this to be one of four names that Jesus would be called, and in the English language such names are capitalized. Still, even though Jesus was called “Mighty,” there can be only one who is “Almighty.” To call Jehovah God “Almighty” would have little significance unless there existed others who were also called gods but who occupied a lesser or inferior position.

The Bulletin of the John Rylands Library in England notes that according to Catholic theologian Karl Rahner, while the·os′ is used in scriptures such as John 1:1 in reference to Christ, “in none of these instances is ‘theos’ used in such a manner as to identify Jesus with him who elsewhere in the New Testament figures as ‘ho Theos,’ that is, the Supreme God.” And the Bulletin adds: “If the New Testament writers believed it vital that the faithful should confess Jesus as ‘God’, is the almost complete absence of just this form of confession in the New Testament explicable?”

But what about the apostle Thomas’ saying, “My Lord and my God!” to Jesus at John 20:28? To Thomas, Jesus was like “a god,” especially in the miraculous circumstances that prompted his exclamation. Some scholars suggest that Thomas may simply have made an emotional exclamation of astonishment, spoken to Jesus but directed to God. In either case, Thomas did not think that Jesus was Almighty God, for he and all the other apostles knew that Jesus never claimed to be God but taught that Jehovah alone is “the only true God.”—John 17:3.

Again, the context helps us to understand this. A few days earlier the resurrected Jesus had told Mary Magdalene to tell the disciples: “I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.” (John 20:17) Even though Jesus was already resurrected as a mighty spirit, Jehovah was still his God. And Jesus continued to refer to Him as such even in the last book of the Bible, after he was glorified.—Revelation 1:5, 6; 3:2, 12.

Just three verses after Thomas’ exclamation, at John 20:31, the Bible further clarifies the matter by stating: “These have been written down that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God,” not that he was Almighty God. And it meant “Son” in a literal way, as with a natural father and son, not as some mysterious part of a Trinity Godhead.

John 1:1

“and the word was a god.” The New Testament in an Improved Version, Upon the Basis of Archbishop Newcome’s New Translation: With a Corrected Text.

“and a god was the word.” The Emphatic Diaglott, interlinear reading, by Benjamin Wilson.

“and the Word was a divine being.” La Bible du Centenaire, L’Evangile selon Jean, by Maurice Goguel.

“and the Word was divine.” The Bible—An American Translation, by J. M. P. Smith and E. J. Goodspeed

“and of a divine kind was the Word.” Das Neue Testament, by Ludwig Thimme

“and the Word was a god.” New World Translation of the Christian Greek Scriptures

“and the Word was a God.” The New Testament, by James L. Tomanek

“and a god (or, of a divine kind) was the Word.” Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Siegfried Schulz

“and godlike kind was the Logos.” Das Evangelium nach Johannes, by Johannes Schneider

DOES saying that Jesus Christ is “a god” conflict with the Bible’s teaching that there is only one God? No, for at times the Bible employs that term to refer to mighty creatures. Psalm 8:5 reads: “You also proceeded to make him [man] a little less than godlike ones [Hebrew, ’elo·him′],” that is, angels. In Jesus’ defense against the charge of the Jews, that he claimed to be God, he noted that “the Law uses the word gods of those to whom the word of God was addressed,” that is, human judges. (John 10:34, 35, JB; Psalm 82:1-6) Even Satan is called “the god of this system of things” at 2 Corinthians 4:4.

Jesus has a position far higher than angels, imperfect men, or Satan. Since these are referred to as “gods,” mighty ones, surely Jesus can be and is “a god.” Because of his unique position in relation to Jehovah, Jesus is a “Mighty God.”—John 1:1; Isaiah 9:6.

But does not “Mighty God” with its capital letters indicate that Jesus is in some way equal to Jehovah God? Not at all. Isaiah merely prophesied this to be one of four names that Jesus would be called, and in the English language such names are capitalized. Still, even though Jesus was called “Mighty,” there can be only one who is “Almighty.” To call Jehovah God “Almighty” would have little significance unless there existed others who were also called gods but who occupied a lesser or inferior position.

The Bulletin of the John Rylands Library in England notes that according to Catholic theologian Karl Rahner, while the·os′ is used in scriptures such as John 1:1 in reference to Christ, “in none of these instances is ‘theos’ used in such a manner as to identify Jesus with him who elsewhere in the New Testament figures as ‘ho Theos,’ that is, the Supreme God.” And the Bulletin adds: “If the New Testament writers believed it vital that the faithful should confess Jesus as ‘God’, is the almost complete absence of just this form of confession in the New Testament explicable?”

But what about the apostle Thomas’ saying, “My Lord and my God!” to Jesus at John 20:28? To Thomas, Jesus was like “a god,” especially in the miraculous circumstances that prompted his exclamation. Some scholars suggest that Thomas may simply have made an emotional exclamation of astonishment, spoken to Jesus but directed to God. In either case, Thomas did not think that Jesus was Almighty God, for he and all the other apostles knew that Jesus never claimed to be God but taught that Jehovah alone is “the only true God.”—John 17:3.

Again, the context helps us to understand this. A few days earlier the resurrected Jesus had told Mary Magdalene to tell the disciples: “I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.” (John 20:17) Even though Jesus was already resurrected as a mighty spirit, Jehovah was still his God. And Jesus continued to refer to Him as such even in the last book of the Bible, after he was glorified.—Revelation 1:5, 6; 3:2, 12.

Just three verses after Thomas’ exclamation, at John 20:31, the Bible further clarifies the matter by stating: “These have been written down that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God,” not that he was Almighty God. And it meant “Son” in a literal way, as with a natural father and son, not as some mysterious part of a Trinity Godhead.

That's nice and all. Good work, I guess.. :confused:

I think that the arguments on this post probably started with deist stating what he or she did on September 20th, 2007. From then on, this post has degenerated into a bundle of arguments with certain individuals trying to prove who's something is bigger and better than the other persons.

But really, what does all you or anyone else at this juncture, trying to prove a point or points, have to do with answering the question of the original poster, please? People are going to go looking for an answer to the original poster's question based upon the title of it, nothing more than that. Not for some diatribe that really veers from the original intent as to the very simple question as to what Jesus is to you and why you feel the way you do? The original poster's question was the following.
Just wanted to get people's opinion of who Jesus is to you and why you feel the way you do? No trick, just want to discuss... It would seem that a simple answer as to one's opinion as to what Jesus is to you and why you feel that way would suffice, rather than an argument ensuing because of the egos of the individuals answering trying to push what they believe to be true, getting into the way of the legitimate purpose as to what an answer might be based upon simple logic and faith of the individual answering.

So, what is your intent in posting the way that you have, please? What are you trying to prove? No one dies with anyone else. We all die alone. What we believe about Jesus or anything, anyone else that we might hold onto and believe about the purpose of life and also what happens to us after we die is something that is a matter of individual faith based upon what we have been taught, accept to be true, and also believe because we think that it is true and correct for our lives because we think that it is true.

You seem to be spending a lot of time and energy on nothing.

It is my hope that this thread will be closed.

What you ask for is irrelevant. The translators of the NWT remain anonymous for reasons of not taking any credit for the translating work that was done; the holy scriptures stand on their own merits. You likewise make all sorts of statements, and never really validate what you claim, you just offer all sorts of illogical blustering in a futile attempt to help yourself.

But the truth is that the translators are NOT anonymous. We know who all are, and only one has any training whatsoever in Greek or Hebrew (and that was extremely minimal - inadequate to take on translating the Bible). When that one person (Fred Franz) was asked to do a simple translation in court, he was unable to do so. I have a copy of the court record if you wish to challenge that statement, and will provide the quote of that part of the questioning.

The translators are:

Frederick William Franz
George Gangas
Karl Klein
Nathan Knorr
Albert Schroeder
(Source: New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_Translation))

I have other sources, including a book written by a former member of the governing body, Raymon Franz.

Now, I will ask again - which one of these gents had the qualifications to translate from Biblical Greek and Hebrew?

John 1:1

“and the word was a god.” The New Testament in an Improved Version, Upon the Basis of Archbishop Newcome’s New Translation: With a Corrected Text.

Again, I could go through each of these claims, and it is interesting the translations that you chose to use (the list was copied from the CD I see), and I could provide a much longer list which show that Jesus is God. But you have still not dealt with the facts of Biblical Greek grammar. The original passage in Greek reads:

kai theos en ho logos.

The definite article applies to the subject, which is this case is the Word. The Word is the subject, not God. The second thing to understand about Greek is that the word order may vary, but is important for the purposes of emphasis. In the original Greek, theos is the first person or item mentioned, and though the words may be in any order, the word which is put first is placed in that position for emphasis. The "word" comes later in the sentence. Thus, in Greek, it would read, "What God was, the Word was". In English, we translate this to "The Word was God".

The Jehovah witnesses translate this to read "the Word was a god" based upon a mis-translation of the Greek, making the assumption that "ho" translates to "a" in English as definite article while when "theos" does not have an definite article, it should be assumed to have an indefinite article (Greek does not have an indefinite article). Without trying to get into details of Greek translation, we can demonstrate that this is not correct by simply showing that in Greek, the one true God is referred to elsewhere in the New Testament by the term "theos" without the definite article. Examples:

Matt 1:23
23 "Behold, the virgin shall be with child, and bear a Son, and they shall call His name Immanuel," which is translated, "God with us."
NKJV

Matt 15:4
4 For God commanded, saying, 'Honor your father and your mother'; and, 'He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.'
NKJV

Mark 2:7
7 Why does this Man speak blasphemies like this? Who can forgive sins but God alone?"
NKJV

Luke 20:38
38 "For He is not the God of the dead but of the living, for all live to Him."
NKJV

There are many more examples throughout the New Testament which could be given. In each example given, the Watchtower Society New World Translation translates the word "God" with the exception of Luke 20:38 where they translate it as "a God" (note the capital "G").

The problems with this are numerous. First and foremost, this creates two gods and yet scripture is abundantly clear throughout that there is only one true God (Deut 6:4, Zech 14:9 and many others). Secondly, they are inconsistent in their translation of passages which lack the definite article. Indeed, to claim that there is more than one god mentioned in this passage from John 1:1, then the Greek would have to read as follows:

kai ho logos en theos.

Note how logos now becomes the emphatic and God is demoted? This teaching is a heresy which is known as Arianism, and when you mis-translate the Greek in this manner, you end up with two gods, instead of the one that scripture says exists. Another mistake would have been to word it as:

kai ho logos en ho theos.

Which reads "..and the Word was the God", which in Greek would say that the Word was God the Father, rather than simply God. This is another heresy. But John was quite specific in his wording to be clear that Jesus is God, but not God the Father. Thus John 1:1 says that the Word (Jesus) is God, and though He is God, the one true God, He is not God the Father. John 1:1 is thus presenting the doctrine of the trinity nicely.


DOES saying that Jesus Christ is “a god” conflict with the Bible’s teaching that there is only one God? No, for at times the Bible employs that term to refer to mighty creatures. Psalm 8:5 reads: “You also proceeded to make him [man] a little less than godlike ones [Hebrew, ’elo·him′],” that is, angels.

Elohim means many things, including leaders, gods, judges, or angels. To tranmslate this as "godlike ones is inappropriate. Let's look at a better translation:

Ps 8:5
5 For You have made him a little lower than the angels,
And You have crowned him with glory and honor.
NKJV


In Jesus’ defense against the charge of the Jews, that he claimed to be God, he noted that “the Law uses the word gods of those to whom the word of God was addressed,” that is, human judges. (John 10:34, 35, JB; Psalm 82:1-6)

Did you notice that the term is used in a judgmental sense? In John 10:34, he calls them "gods". In John 10:26 we are told that they are unsaved, and in Psalm 82, we are told that these men who call themselves gods are unjust judges who lack knowledge and understading and walk in darkness. Do you really think that this is an appriopriate comparison for Jesus?


Even Satan is called “the god of this system of things” at 2 Corinthians 4:4.Did you see what else Paul calls these false gods?

1 Cor 8:5-7
5 For even if there are so-called gods, whether in heaven or on earth (as there are many gods and many lords), 6 yet for us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we for Him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and through whom we live.
NKJV

Notice that they are not real gods, neither is Satan who tried to make himself a god, but rather for us Jesus is the One God! Even God says that He does not know any other gods:

Isa 44:8
Is there a God besides Me?
Indeed there is no other Rock;
I know not one.'"
NKJV

Are you claiming that God does not know what he is talking about?


Jesus has a position far higher than angels, imperfect men, or Satan. Since these are referred to as “gods,” mighty ones, surely Jesus can be and is “a god.” Because of his unique position in relation to Jehovah, Jesus is a “Mighty God.”—John 1:1; Isaiah 9:6.

But does not “Mighty God” with its capital letters indicate that Jesus is in some way equal to Jehovah God?

The term “Mighty God” is indeed used in scripture to refer to Jehovah:

Jer 32:17-18
18 You show lovingkindness to thousands, and repay the iniquity of the fathers into the bosom of their children after them--the Great, the Mighty God, whose name is the LORD of hosts.
NKJV

Isa 10:21-23
21 The remnant will return, the remnant of Jacob,
To the Mighty God.
22 For though your people, O Israel, be as the sand of the sea,
A remnant of them will return;
The destruction decreed shall overflow with righteousness.
23 For the Lord GOD of hosts
Will make a determined end
In the midst of all the land.
NKJV

Gen 49:24
24 But his bow remained in strength,
And the arms of his hands were made strong
By the hands of the Mighty God of Jacob
(From there is the Shepherd, the Stone of Israel),
NKJV

It is interesting to note that the term “Mighty God” is used in scripture 4 times, 3 times clearly referring to Jehovah, and the fourth is prophetic of Jesus. This Therefore this is a clear reference equating Jesus with God.


But what about the apostle Thomas’ saying, “My Lord and my God!” to Jesus at John 20:28? To Thomas, Jesus was like “a god,” especially in the miraculous circumstances that prompted his exclamation. Some scholars suggest that Thomas may simply have made an emotional exclamation of astonishment, spoken to Jesus but directed to God

Thomas did not call Jesus "a god". He said "My Lord" and "My God". That would have been blasphemous is Jesus were not the one and only true God, just as Paul rebuked men for calling him and others gods:

Acts 14:11-15
11 Now when the people saw what Paul had done, they raised their voices, saying in the Lycaonian language, "The gods have come down to us in the likeness of men!" 12 And Barnabas they called Zeus, and Paul, Hermes, because he was the chief speaker. 13 Then the priest of Zeus, whose temple was in front of their city, brought oxen and garlands to the gates, intending to sacrifice with the multitudes. 14 But when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard this, they tore their clothes and ran in among the multitude, crying out 15 and saying, "Men, why are you doing these things? We also are men with the same nature as you, and preach to you that you should turn from these useless things to the living God, who made the heaven, the earth, the sea, and all things that are in them,
NKJV

And yet Jesus did not rebuke him, but rather said:

John 20:28-29
29 Jesus said to him, "Thomas, because you have seen Me, you have believed. Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed."
NKJV

Jesus is God.

But the truth is that the translators are NOT anonymous. We know who all are, and only one has any training whatsoever in Greek or Hebrew (and that was extremely minimal - inadequate to take on translating the Bible). When that one person (Fred Franz) was asked to do a simple translation in court, he was unable to do so. I have a copy of the court record if you wish to challenge that statement, and will provide the quote of that part of the questioning.

The translators are:

Frederick William Franz
George Gangas
Karl Klein
Nathan Knorr
Albert Schroeder
(Source: New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_Translation))

I have other sources, including a book written by a former member of the governing body, Raymon Franz.

Now, I will ask again - which one of these gents had the qualifications to translate from Biblical Greek and Hebrew?


No, the truth is the translating committee is anonymous. And even if they did decide to openly state who was on that body, anything you have to say about their training is utterly meaningless.

You can ask until your dying day. You have no position to question anyone's credentials, especially when you continue to admit to your biased position.

Sorry, but Jesus is NOT God. Never was, never will be. The ultimate source on that? The Bible. Not the faulty translation you use, which twists and changes things to fit a ridiculous trinity theory.

referenced from eSword, KJV with Strongs Concordance numbers:


Php 2:9 Wherefore1352 God2316 also2532 hath highly exalted5251 him,846 and2532 given5483 him846 a name3686 which3588 is above5228 every3956 name:3686
Php 2:10 That2443 at1722 the3588 name3686 of Jesus2424 every3956 knee1119 should bow,2578 of things in heaven,2032 and2532 things in earth,1919 and2532 things under the earth;2709
Php 2:11 And2532 that every3956 tongue1100 should confess1843 that3754 Jesus2424 Christ5547 is Lord,2962 to1519 the glory1391 of God2316 the Father.3962


κύριος
kurios
koo'-ree-os
From κῦρος kuros (supremacy); supreme in authority, that is, (as noun) controller; by implication Mr. (as a respectful title): - God, Lord, master, Sir.

Sorry, but Jesus is NOT God. Never was, never will be. The ultimate source on that? The Bible. Not the faulty translation you use, which twists and changes things to fit a ridiculous trinity theory.

No, the truth is the translating committee is anonymous. And even if they did decide to openly state who was on that body, anything you have to say about their training is utterly meaningless.

You can ask til your dying day. You have no position to question anyone's credentials, especially when you continue to admit to your biased position.

All you do is deny. We know who the translating committee is, and we know their qualifications. And yes, I am biased in favour of the truth. Those who love truth have nothing to fear from the truth. Do you want to use a translation created by people who had no qualifications?

Even if you don't agree with me, that does not change what their training or qualifications were. They are no more or no less qualified just because you disagree with me, so why don't we examine the facts?

Sorry, but Jesus is NOT God. Never was, never will be. The ultimate source on that? The Bible. Not the faulty translation you use, which twists and changes things to fit a ridiculous trinity theory.

I have shown that the NWT was translated by those who had no qualifications. What is your valdiation for your claim that the NKJV is faulty?

Just denying everything is not acceptable.

And from Matthew Henry:

Php 2:5-11 -
The example of our Lord Jesus Christ is set before us. We must resemble him in his life, if we would have the benefit of his death. Notice the two natures of Christ; his Divine nature, and human nature. Who being in the form of God, partaking the Divine nature, as the eternal and only-begotten Son of God, Joh_1:1, had not thought it a robbery to be equal with God, and to receive Divine worship from men. His human nature; herein he became like us in all things except sin. Thus low, of his own will, he stooped from the glory he had with the Father before the world was. Christ's two states, of humiliation and exaltation, are noticed. Christ not only took upon him the likeness and fashion, or form of a man, but of one in a low state; not appearing in splendour. His whole life was a life of poverty and suffering. But the lowest step was his dying the death of the cross, the death of a malefactor and a slave; exposed to public hatred and scorn. The exaltation was of Christ's human nature, in union with the Divine. At the name of Jesus, not the mere sound of the word, but the authority of Jesus, all should pay solemn homage. It is to the glory of God the Father, to confess that Jesus Christ is Lord; for it is his will, that all men should honour the Son as they honour the Father, Joh_5:23. Here we see such motives to self-denying love as nothing else can supply. Do we thus love and obey the Son of God?

Just wanted to get people's opinion of who Jesus is to you and why you feel the way you do? no trick, just want to discuss...
I think he is the messenger of god, allah suphana wata alla

He is not a god

All you do is deny. We know who the translating committe is, and we know their qualifications. And yes, I am biased in favour of the truth. Those who love truth have nothing to fear from the truth. Do you want to use a translation created by people who had no qualifications?

Even if you don't agree with me, that does not chnage what their training or qualifications were. they are no more or no less qualified just because you disagree with me, so why don't we examine the facts?


You THINK you know who the committee is and/or their qualifications, but you forget or conveniently ignore the fact that nothing you say can be considered credible. That's just how it goes with people who have admitted biases. Your bias is in favor of the lies that your father, Satan, has been blinding people's minds with for centuries.

Whoever they are, or were, you're about to have this thread closed for skewing way off-topic. Take your discussions elsewhere.

I have shown that the NWT was translated by those who had no qualifications. What is your valdiation for your claim that the NKJV is faulty?

Just denying everything is not acceptable.


And your just simply say "they're not qualified" is not acceptable either, especially so when it comes from bias.

And your just simply say "they're not qualified" is not acceptable either, especially so when it comes from bias.

I have looked into it - Prove me wrong, show me that any of these were qualified.

Simply denying everything is proof of nothing, silentrascal.

he is not a god

John 1:1-2
1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
NKJV

You THINK you know who the committee is and/or their qualifications, but you forget or conveniently ignore the fact that nothing you say can be considered credible. That's just how it goes with people who have admitted biases. Your bias is in favor of the lies that your father, Satan, has been blinding people's minds with for centuries.


Now I see that you are exapnding into ad hominem arguments.

I have looked into it - Prove me wrong, show me that any of these were qualified.

Simply denying everything is proof of nothing, silentrascal.


And your saying anything about it in any respect is, likewise, proof of nothing.

Now I see that you are exapnding into ad hominem arguments.

You would be well familiar with those types of arguments, seeing as it's all you're capable of.

he is not a god


Correct and yet incorrect. The Bible makes clear that Jesus is A god, certainly, but Jesus is not God Almighty. There is a difference.

John 1:1 - "In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god." - NWT

Will everyone please stop arguing? I like this question, and would prefer if it didn't get closed because of arguments. It gives me, and everyone else, a chance to see how others view Jesus, and what they believe.

You don't have to agree with anyone here. Simply state what you believe, personally, about who Jesus was or is.

Again thanks to all of you that posted responses on who you think Jesus is. I was enlightened and encouraged from many of the responses. Let's try not to get so far off that we lose sight of things.

You would be well familiar with those types of arguments, seeing as it's all you're capable of.


Sigh - more ad hominems.

Correct and yet incorrect. The Bible makes clear that Jesus is A god, certainly, but Jesus is not God Almighty. There is a difference.

John 1:1 - "In [the] beginning the Word was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god." - NWT


So you believe in polytheism?

So you believe in polytheism?


The Bible itself says there are numerous Gods, yet only one True, Almighty God who is deserving of our worship. I give my worship to the One Almighty god, thus I do not believe in polytheism.

The Bible itself says there are numerous Gods,

Then why does the one true God not know of any others?

Isa 44:8
Is there a God besides Me?
Indeed there is no other Rock;
I know not one.'"
NKJV

Are you suggesting that he is forgetful?


yet only one True, Almighty God who is deserving of our worship.

Ah, you mean like Jesus is worshiped in the Bible!

Matt 2:11
11 And when they had come into the house, they saw the young Child with Mary His mother, and fell down and worshiped Him.
NKJV

Matt 8:2-4
2 And behold, a leper came and worshiped Him, saying, "Lord, if You are willing, You can make me clean." 3 Then Jesus put out His hand and touched him, saying, "I am willing; be cleansed." Immediately his leprosy was cleansed.
NKJV

Matt 9:18-20
18 While He spoke these things to them, behold, a ruler came and worshiped Him, saying, "My daughter has just died, but come and lay Your hand on her and she will live." 19 So Jesus arose and followed him, and so did His disciples.
NKJV

Matt 14:33
33 Then those who were in the boat came and worshiped Him, saying, "Truly You are the Son of God."
NKJV

Matt 28:9-10
9 And as they went to tell His disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, "Rejoice!" So they came and held Him by the feet and worshiped Him. 10 Then Jesus said to them, "Do not be afraid. Go and tell My brethren to go to Galilee, and there they will see Me."
NKJV

Matt 28:16-18
16 Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, to the mountain which Jesus had appointed for them. 17 When they saw Him, they worshiped Him; but some doubted. 18 And Jesus came and spoke to them, saying, "All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth.
NKJV

Mark 5:6-7
6 When he saw Jesus from afar, he ran and worshiped Him. 7 And he cried out with a loud voice and said, "What have I to do with You, Jesus, Son of the Most High God? I implore You by God that You do not torment me."
NKJV

John 9:35-39
35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when He had found him, He said to him, "Do you believe in the Son of God?" 36 He answered and said, "Who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?" 37 And Jesus said to him, "You have both seen Him and it is He who is talking with you." 38 Then he said, "Lord, I believe!" And he worshiped Him.
NKJV

Will everyone please stop arguing? I like this question, and would prefer if it didn't get closed because of arguments. It gives me, and everyone else, a chance to see how others view Jesus, and what they believe.

You don't have to agree with anyone here. Simply state what you believe, personally, about who Jesus was or is.

Thank you for saying that! Doing that would be much more in line with the intentions of the original poster. If people want to argue about the fine points of why they believe the way that they do and how others might be wrong in the way that they believe, then they should start a separate thread for that purpose and put into the question that their intent for posting the question is to debate ad nauseum with others.

Do you suppose there is any hope for this thread to get back on the intended track?

Again thanks to all of you that posted responses on who you think Jesus is. I was enlightened and encouraged from many of the responses. let's try not to get so far off that we lose sight of things.

And, thank you for saying that! Especially, since you are the one who originated the thread!

It's one thing to have a thread veer a little way off it's intended course because the people posting might be having a little fun and rapport. But, to have a thread go off course because of people who really don't seem to care about keeping on track with the intent of the original post and going off according to their own self-serving agenda, is another thing entirely.

Jesus is my Everything. He is the One who knows me inside and out. He hears me and listens to my anxious heart. He restores me when I am willing to let Him into my every day. He is the only One I can count on to always be there for me. He has promised to never let me down, never let me go. He has promised to heal my broken places. He breaks me when pride creeps back in. He corrects and disciplines me when I go astray, and He loves me and forgives me when I come back. He challenges me to lay down the things of this world that I have held so tightly to. He encourages me to pick up the gifts He has for me. He asks for me to lay my burdens at His feet so He may carry them, and He asks me to take up my cross and follow Him. He wants to exchange the heavy past, present and future I've created and carried for the yoke of submission to Him that is light and refreshing. I am thankful and ever grateful that He chose to love me and called me as His own. Thank you for allowing me to remember Who He Is.

Then why does the one true God not know of any others?

Isa 44:8
Is there a God besides Me?
Indeed there is no other Rock;
I know not one.'"
NKJV

Are you suggesting that he is forgetful?



You really aren't very bright, are you? And using an errant version like the King James really doesn't help you out either.

You really aren't very bright, are you? And using an errant version like the King James really doesn't help you out either.

Your use of ad hominems says it all.

Your use of ad hominems says it all.

And likewise does your repetition of stupid comments.

And likewise does your repetition of stupid comments.
:p :D

:p :D

:rolleyes:

Just wanted to get people's opinion of who Jesus is to you and why you feel the way you do? no trick, just want to discuss...

Just a reminder to anyone who continues to post that what is above is the original intent of this thread. Continuing to argue the fine points of an individual person's beliefs is not keeping within the original intent of this thread.

I think you are missing one important thing. Non of the people you mentioned have billions of followers and have changed the course of history.

Lucky? The fact that he has the most followers further proves his deity. Christianity is also the fastest growing religion in the world.

It is a historical fact that Jesus lived. The are non biblical accounts of jesus and even a secularist can not deny his existence. That's like denying queen elizabeth the first existed.

Who care who translated it. We still have the original greek and hebrew texts to reference if there is discrepancy

Right on !

who or whatever JESUS is has to be good. After I was baptised I really did feel all my sins were washed away and the church loved me as one of there own. I still have memories of my sinful hayday. I am a changed for the better man now however I still continue to sin in other ways.

Some people say that I am going to hell no matter what. The bible says that the ones thought to be first will be last and the ones last to be first.

Ive always believed in god and have felt his presence in my life at all times.
the jesus thing is all new to me and Im still not comfortable worshiping his name.

I always thought there was one god , only one. Most of the writings and teachings of jesus was while he was a man. Im still pondering on that one.


I am very much in touch with my heart, mind, soul, body, logic circuits, faith, etc. And through it all I can still say that we are only human with animalistic instincts. We all have the same basic needs for survival that supercede any philosophy.

No matter how christianity can be and is written off in peoples minds, I would rather be more like jesus (or what he represents) than anything in this world.

This is an opinion gathering post as far as I can tell. It's interesting to note that some are using this post to spread Christianity views. You must understand that there are others with different religions. Learn to respect their views instead of trying to push Christianity on them. If you must do that, start another thread.

Just wanted to get people's opinion of who Jesus is to you and why you feel the way you do? no trick, just want to discuss...

Thank you for the opportunity to elaborate on who Jesus is to me and why I feel the way I do. Jesus is My Lord, My Savior, My God and principally ONE in The Holy Trinity. Who else has been known to forfeit their life for the Salvation of mankind, except Jesus! Who else would submit to unbearable whippings and made to carry His cross to Calvary, except Jesus! Who else is capable of Forgiving you of your sins and allowing you to pass into Eternal Life in Heaven, except Jesus!

The following Holy Scriptures speak of Jesus, the Christ.

"No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared HIM." JOHN 1:18 [KJV]

When people ask about Jesus Christ, who He is and if He is the Son of God, those in the know should be proud to reply with the following Scripture: "And the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from Heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased." LUKE 3:22 [KJV]

There is a very good reason why God has sent His Only Begotten Son into the world.

"For God so loved the world, that He gave His ONLY begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life." JOHN 3:16 [KJV] This Scripture tells us quite plainly that " ... whosoever BELIEVETH in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life." So, for those who do not believe in Him, and there are many, they should not hope to have everlasting life in Heaven or to be Saved since they do not BELIEVE in Jesus who is the only ONE who can give Salvation unto mankind. But then, why should non-believers want to go to Heaven, to a beautiful eternal place where there is no torment and suffering, in the first place, since they are not aligned with Jesus or God!

For those who want to know who Fathered Jesus, the answer is in the following Scripture. "Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as His mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost." MATTHEW 1:18 [KJV]

After Jesus' birth and when He started His ministry and mission, He was rejected by jealous Jews who were in a leadership position and He was sent to the Roman governor to be executed. "When the morning was come, all the chief priests and elders of the people took counsel against Jesus and put Him to death: And when they had bound Him, they led Him away, and delivered Him to Pontius Pilate the governor." MATTHEW 27:1-2 [KJV]

Jesus, who came to lovingly give us SALVATION was mocked, whipped, beaten and crucified at Calvary. He suffered much under Pontius Pilate and died but RESURRECTED on the third day and remained for forty days and nights and was seen by His apostles and many others during that time. He could eat, be touched, etc. This is further proof of His God-self and again, I would have to ask who else has been known to do this, to suffer so much pain for mankind and to die just to deliver us from sin? Jesus, whom some do not believe in, was one "Who did no sin, neither was guile found in His mouth: Who, when He was reviled, reviled not again; when He suffered, He threatened not; but committed Himself to Him that judge the righteously:" 1 PETER 2:22, 23 [KJV]

That is why HE means so much to me! His Love pours forth with His cup of kindness and goodness, mercy and compassion for mankind and how mankind, in turn, treats Him is abominable. But the Law of Cause and Effect (What you sow, that will you also reap) comes into play here just as sure as you have read these words. Every one who rejects Him cannot expect to have their soul saved at the time of their passing. After all, how could He know you if you do not want to know Him? Again, many will not want to have their soul saved but I do, that much is CERTAIN! And in being BORN AGAIN in the Name of Jesus, we can assure that we will go to Heaven at our appointed time. That is the best INSURANCE anyone in this world could ever hope to have! But for those still not convinced, you know the saying "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink". That is something they will have to personally contend and struggle with and their conscience. I will not place myself in that kind of position. I give ALL GLORY to God through His Only Begotten Son Jesus Christ! I praise His Most Holy Name!

For those wanting to know what Jesus continues to do for us, it is answered in this Scripture: "For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into Heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:" HEBREWS 9:24 [KJV] What better assurance and insurance could I possibly have than in knowing that Jesus will be before God when I pass on to give me Salvation since I believe and have given my life to Him! Personally, I would never want to risk not being Saved just to be stubborn and not believe in Jesus, after all, what would it cost me later on? What would I have to lose? SALVATION and my SOUL when I pass on, that's what, and that is a Price Too High to have to pay!

The Holy Bible addresses those who do not wish to understand Jesus or who reject Him and who are anti-God: "But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." 1 CORINTHIANS 2:14 [KJV]

Thank you again for asking the important question of who Jesus is to me and what He means to me and for allowing me to give my testimony as to why I feel the way I do. PRAISE OUR GOD and SAVIOR JESUS ALWAYS!!!

My Lord, my Savior and my God.

Great answer! I would add, "My Love and my Life".

Jesus is my savior & the son of god. I disagree with any who say he is part of some trinity. That would completely take away from the ransom sacrifice.

Just wanted to get people's opinion of who Jesus is to you and why you feel the way you do? no trick, just want to discuss...

I think there's a reasonable chance Jesus existed. Whoever he was, he was an increbibly interesting person though.

I think it's most likely that he was a very gentle person who espoused some very good wisdom to live by. He was likely smart. A lot of people think he was a nutcase. I'm not saying that, but he was most likely dellusional (if he existed). He was certainly an apocolyptic.

Jesus is my savior & the son of god. I disagree with any who say he is part of some trinity. That would completly take away from the ransom sacrafice.


Why would you say that it takes away from the sacrifice?

Jesus a man whose true name in english happens to be joshua. He is the word of god made into flesh and crowned King of all. His name means the deliverer and the title his earthly admirers respond to ,Christ, means one anointed. He is God anointed king and deliverer of all.

God in the flesh. When you've seen the visible Jesus, you've seen the invisible Father.

Jesus is the Light of my life, my Lord and Savior. My everlastasting life,the God of my salvation. He gave my His love so I could love others, for love is of God and everone
who loves is born of God and knows God. Jesus is my Peace, He will keep in perfect
peace, whoes mind is fixed on Him. Jesus is my forgiver and has covered all my sin.
He is my Righteousness, who know no sin to be sin for me, that I might become the
righteousness of God in Him. He is my Deliverer, for the law of the Spirt of Life in
Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death.
He has opened my eyes so I can see, and opened my ears so I can hear.
He is my Strength, my Hope and Joy, Companion, Security, sufficiency and Guardian.
Jesus is my Fulfillment, He satisfies my longing soul, and fills my hungry soul with
goodness. I delight myself in the Lord, and He shall give me the desires of my heart.
Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for rightousness, for they shall be filled.
Jesus is my teacher who tought me how to pray, and whatever thing you ask when you pray, believe that you receive them, and you shall have them.
Jesus has given us so many gifts to abide in, faith, hope, love but the greatest of these is love.Everything we do, or don't do, face, and don't face is touched by God's
continuing love. Everything about us hinges on our love because God, who is love,
created us in his image. Jesus demonstrated His amazing love for us by dying for
our sins. Christ's love goes on forever for the ones that love Him!
This is Jesus to me, who I love with all my heart, soul, mind and being!

Love and Blessings Maggie 3

Jesus is my "The Best Friend". HE loves me, HE cares for me, HE consequences me when I stray away and forgives me when I repent. HE is the one whom I always pray first to, for HIS blessings, before I start a new thing. HE is the one who gets all the credits to whatever I accomplish. HE is the one from whom I get my rescue when the weather is rough or I mess up. HE is the one whom I would see after the death, though I wish I could see HIM, coming down from Heaven, while I am on this earth.

Jesus was just a man if he really existed, & I believe he did. He was not the son of God, not the christ, not a prophet. I doubt he really said most of the things the New Testament ascribes to him, & if he did then he was probably mentally unstable. Many men in modern times have claimed to be God & duped people into dying for them (e.g., Jim Jones, David Koresh, Marshal Applewhite). There were many others before Jesus who made this claim, & many after him. If Jesus really thought he was God then he was just another Jim Jones or David Koresh, & billions have been duped into believing it.

Picking from your own post, the difference between Jesus and Jim Jones, David Koresh, Marshal Applewhite etc. is that others who "claimed to be God & duped people into dying for them", Jesus did not dupe anyone to die with HIM.

Jesus had told us 2000 years ago, that there would be many who would claim to be Jesus and make people follow them. And that's true. That happened in the past and is happening now and will continue to happen till the second coming of Jesus.

My friend be aware that HIS second is near and we are in the End Times, though nobody knows the day and hour. But we have been warned.

he's just a made up character of the jews... there's a god...but the existence of jesus is yet to be proven...

Let me update you here my friend, and this is the latest that many Jews have already accepted Lord Jesus as their saviour. Therefore, existence of Jesus had already been proved, some 2000 years ago.

he is not a god

I agree. He is not a god. HE is God.

This is an opinion gathering post as far as I can tell. It's interesting to note that some are using this post to spread Christianity views. You must understand that there are others with different religions. Learn to respect their views instead of trying to push Christianity on them. If you must do that, start another thread.

Every persons's views are respected here. No one is put down but an effort is made to show the other side of the coin because Jesus has told us to spread HIS name. So people are making best use of this opportunity.

This is such a good questions asked.

Did anybody notices how many people have posted the response. How many people we have come to see who were there but we never knew them.

Let me update you here my friend, and this is the latest that many Jews have already accepted Lord Jesus as their saviour. Therefore, existance of Jesus had already been proved, some 2000 years ago.

Indeed! We find evidence of the truth of Jesus not just in scripture, but in many other ancient writings, the authors of which, in some cases, were strongly opposed to Christianity. There is no basis whatsoever for the claim that Jesus did not or may not have existed. There may be some who question if He was God as He claimed, but no one has any basis for questioning His existence.

To me Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior.
He is also my master and religious teacher.
That pretty well covers it.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Oh I thought I should add... Jesus is God.

Hi, Leidenschaftlich für Wahr!

I haven't seen you on the site in awhile! Nice to see you being here again and I also appreciate the fact that you're a person of Faith!

Thanks!

Jesus is the Strength of my life, the Source== the eternal, indwelling presence of God. .
The Love of my life. He is my everything. Nothing compares to the freedom that waits
for you within His loving arms. Nothing will ever bring more completion to your heart and soul than knowing the unconditional love of Jesus. He can be yours today== if you
choose. He is the Way the Truth and the Life if you believe.

Love and blessing, Maggie 3

Leidenschaftlich für Wahr,
Nice to see you here.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Leidenschaftlich für Wahr,
Nice to see you here.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Funny name, Leidenschaftlich fuer Wahr. As I recall my German, leidenschaftlich is passionate, something like that, and Wahr is truth. But I don't think you can translate the English, "passionate for truth" like that--it's too literal. Sounds weird to me. Maybe you could say, leidenschaftlich fuer die Wahrheit, that's a maybe. But the other, I don't think do.

That he was a great profit, teacher, and messenger. He was created by God and performed many miracles, but is not a god. The bible has endured great amounts of alterations, deletions, and additions... that is an important fact that should be carefully considered and not brushed aside.

Golden_Girl,
I strongly disagree.
If you, or anyone, compares the earliest versions of the bible with those really good ones of today you will find them to be greatly similar.
Over the years there have been SOME translation corrections but no vast alterations your message seems to infer.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Golden_Girl,
I strongly disagree.
If you, or anyone, compares the earliest versions of the bible with those really good ones of today you will find them to be greatly similar.
Over the years there have been SOME translation corrections but no vast alterations your message seems to infer.
Peace and kindness,
Fred


No Arcura, I strongly disagree.

For one moment I would like for everyone to stop and think of these situations, please take the time to read carefully. There is no single scriptural text in which Jesus claimed to be divine. In fact, there are numerous texts where he had mentioned not being of equal nature to God (John 8: 28-29, 14: 10, 24. 28. 31. Mk. 13: 32, 10: 18). . It was he who stated that “I can do nothing on my own authority” (John 5: 30).Even the testimony of Paul, we find that the Book of Acts indicates that Paul was accused of not telling the truth about the teachings of Jesus, an accusation which he did not deny but tried to justify (see Romans 3:7-8). :(

Even the very first groups of Christianity such as the Ebonites, the Cerinthians, the Basilidians, the Capocratians, and the Hypisistarians. The Arians, Paulicians and Goths also accepted Jesus as a prophet of God, to name a few. Long after the departure of Jesus from earth, his faithful followers continued to "keep up their daily attendance at the Temple" (Acts 2:46). It would be beyond belief to imagine that had Jesus indeed preached to his apostles that he was God, and if Jesus had indeed commanded them to forsake the commandments, that they would then disregard all of this and continue to worship in a Jewish synagogue.

Christian The "trinity" was not revealed by God Almighty or Jesus, but Trinitarian Christians believe in it. Why? I will explain why, the answer lies in the council of Nicea of 325 CE. The concept of the Trinity was not even introduced into Christianity until close to four hundred years after Jesus . It was only then that "the Trinitarian dogma 'One God in three Persons' became thoroughly assimilated into Christian life and thought ... it was the product of 3 centuries of doctrinal development". The New Catholic Encyclopedia," Volume XIV, p. 295. This explains that even the The New Catholic Encyclopedia admited it that Jesus, John, Matthew, Luke, Mark, all of the apostles, and even Paul, were completely unaware of any "Trinity." :eek: Emperor Constantine, the pagan emperor of the Romans, began to notice the increasing number of converts to the new faith among his subjects. This is the Romanized mythology in origin, the unqualified Trinitarianism, was added during the 4th century.

This matter should not be brushed aside so easily and in vain. "The controversy over the matter of the Trinity had in 318C.E. once again just blown up between two church men from Alexandria, Arius, the deacon, and Alexander, his bishop. The emperor sent these men many letters encouraging them to put aside their "trivial" disputes regarding the nature of God and the "number" of God, etc. Constantine realized that a unified church was necessary for a "strong kingdom". When negotiations failed to settle the dispute, the emperor called the "Council of Nicea" in order to resolve these, and other matters. The council met and voted on whether Jesus (pbuh) was God or not. They effectively voted Jesus into the position of God with an amendment condemning all Christians who believed in the unity of God. There is even extensive proof that most of those who signed this decree did not actually believe in it or understand it but thought it politically expedient to do so." Additional beliefs were later combined in 431AD to give Mary, the mother of Jesus the title "Theotokos" (God-bearing). This is how she became known to us as "Mother of God."
What Did Jesus Really Say ? - Historical origin of the "Trinity" myth (http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library/jesus-say/ch1.2.5.html)

Taking a look at his Name. "Jesus" is the Greek form of the Hebrew name Joshua, and means "a savior". The angel, addressing Joseph, said: "Thou shalt call his name Jesus: for he shall save his people from their sins" (Matt. 1:21). The word "Christ" is not a name. It is a Greek word transferred into the English language, and means "Anointed." Jesus Christ, therefore, means "The Anointed Jesus." The anointing of Jesus took place when he was 30 years of age, at the time he was baptized by John. Of this, said Peter--
"God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power" (Acts 10:38).
Jesus was to fulfill the three offices, which was clearly foretold by Moses and the prophets. The New Testament confirms all of these predictions. Therefore, to truly know Jesus in the Bible sense, we must know what he taught as a Prophet. We must understand the sacrifice he offered as a Priest, and the ruling he will exercise as a King.

Jesus and God can not be co-equal because the Bible says "... my Father is greater than I" (John 14:28). Obviously if God is greater than Jesus then they can not be equal. We also read: "But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father." (Mark 13:32)
If Jesus and God were equal then it follows that they will be equal in knowledge. But as we can see, God is greater in knowledge than Jesus (pbuh).

God is claimed to have "begotten" Jesus. Jesus is claimed to be the "Son" of God. "Beget" is a verb which implies an action. No matter how you define what God actually did in order to "beget" Jesus, any definition must require that God Almighty performed some action and then Jesus came into being. Before God performed this action Jesus was not. After God performed this action Jesus came into being. Thus, not only is Jesus not eternal, since there was a time (before the "begetting") when he did not exist, but he can also never be co-eternal with God since God was in existence at a time when Jesus was not. This is very simple grade-school logic.

What Did Jesus Really Say ? - Summary: What is a "Trinity"? (http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library/jesus-say/ch1.2.8.html)

Through Moses, God said: "I will raise them up a prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him" (Deut. 18:18-19). He was to be like Moses, and would therefore fulfill similar functions. Moses was a prophet, a mediator, a lawgiver, and a ruler, or king. Being like unto Moses, Jesus must fulfill all these. Therefore, to reject Jesus' teaching is to disbelieve God, for "He that believeth not God hath made Him a liar" (l John 5:10).

It is true that Jesus (aka Yeshua as well as Isa) was one of the most greatest prophets and messengers. There are two extremes, "the Jews, who rejected Jesus as a Prophet of God, called him an impostor. And the Christians on the other hand, consider him to be the son of God and worship him as such."

The later versions of the bible only continues to be diluted and cause further divisions and sects of beliefs. Unfortunately, there were hundreds of scholars who were used to create and re-create different versions of the bible over the centuries. Scholars cannot fully agree with the work of other scholars. Sorry, but no translation was "inspired", because they were put together, altered, and adulterated by men. 'How can we know God preserved His inspired words precisely the way He revealed them thousands of years ago? How can we know which original texts are most accurate? There are, after all, thousands of “original” texts from which we get our translations. We must go to God for the answer." What’s Wrong With “New” Bible Translations? | Living | theTrumpet.com by the Philadelphia Church of God (http://www.thetrumpet.com/index.php?q=4827.3977.0.0)

“What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God” (Romans 3:1-2).

It is fact that some bibles choose to leave verses out, while others may include. Causing divisions and separations in the church, leading further to multiples of denominations and sects, versions, and the additional false doctrine further added. From the Greek New Testament, the Roman Catholic Church, King James Version (KJV), New International Version (NIV), NASB (New American Standard Bible), NKJV (New King James Version), etc. etc. Evern many of the "Christian" holidays are in fact pagan, "from Christmas" to "Easter" Wrong Bible (http://wrongbible.com/)

We as humanity are supposed to worship the one God only, any further dietes and additions added to God is false, dogma, and polytheistic. The truth can at times be difficult to swallow. But fact is fact. It does not hurt as much to learn the one truth of God, and avoid the hypocrasies of man and such man-made dogmas.

Further Important References To Read:

Because God "gave His only begotten Son.."?: What Did Jesus Really Say ? - Because God "gave His only begotten Son.."? (http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library/jesus-say/ch1.2.3.10.html)

How many "Sons" does God have?: What Did Jesus Really Say ? - How many "Sons" does God have? (http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library/jesus-say/ch1.2.3.2.html)

Christianity's true founder, Paul, admits fabrication: What Did Jesus Really Say ? - Christianity's true founder, Paul, admits fabrication (http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library/jesus-say/ch1.2.7.html)

Because he was the "Image of God"?: What Did Jesus Really Say ? - Because he was the "Image of God"? (http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library/jesus-say/ch1.2.3.6.html)

Because God was his "Father"?: What Did Jesus Really Say ? - Because God was his "Father"? (http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library/jesus-say/ch1.2.3.3.html)

What Did Jesus Really Say ? - Table Of Contents (http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library/jesus-say/contents.html)
Prophet Jesus (PBUH) Never Claimed Divinity By Dr. Jamal Badawi (http://www.sultan.org/articles/pjncd.html)
What Did Jesus Really Say ? - Summary: What is a "Trinity"? (http://wings.buffalo.edu/sa/muslim/library/jesus-say/ch1.2.8.html)
The Trinity Doctrine. True or False ? (http://www.heaven.net.nz/answers/answer08.htm)

Is There a Right and Wrong Translation of the Bible? (http://www.apostolic.net/biblicalstudies/righttrans.htm)
The Trinity -- Fact or Fiction? (http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/trinity.html)
Jesus Christ: Prophet, Priest, and King (http://www.bereanchristadelphian.com/Expos/Jesus.htm)
The Truth about Jesus Christ (http://sultan.org/articles/Jesus.html)
What are the ERRORS in the King James Version Bible? - Part 1 of 2 (http://www.biblestudy.org/basicart/kjverror.html)

May God bless as always inshaallah...

Golden_Girl,
I still very much disagree with your opinion.
I do not have the time to go into a discussion on why but I do use 8 different versions of the bible in my studies on this and much more.
The Apostle Thomas said, "my Lord and My God" Jesus did not disagree with that and neither do I.
Fred

Golden_Girl,
I still very much disagree with your opinion.
I do not have the time to go into a discussion on why but I do use 8 different versions of the bible in my studies on this and much more.
The Apostle Thomas said, "my Lord and My God" Jesus did not disagree with that and neither do I.
Fred

Hmmm... I must say that I am not surprised.
Well, I only intended to answer the question as we all are free to believe what we desire. I understand that for many, they question why believe facts and what is most apparent, when ignorance is bliss..

Leidenschaftlich für Wahr be careful when you judge, because you do not have the authority to do so nor did you attempt to even know my beliefs. Sorry to dissapoint you, but I proudly bow before God and one God only FIVE times a day and I pray to Him throughout the day everyday. And.. um... hmmm.. how many times do you bow before God :eek: oh... none? No wonder the silence. Sorry but if you are counting pagan Christmas trees and Easter bunny rabbits, they do not count.

I do not worship man nor do I idolize their man-made fabricated beliefs. I 100% reject any man-made additions given from Paulotheistic believers, Pagan Constantine believers, Pagan King James version believers, Druids, and any revisions from deceitful scribes and scholars whose only interests were to blend and combine religions and secure political power over their little kingdoms in order to make pagans "happy" and comfortable to "convert" a little.
Further causing separation and "denominations", which is completely unholy and clearly written in the bible to avoid. Sorry, but I'm not into "cherry picking". My God is the God of Adam, the God of Abraham, the God of Moses, and the God of Yeshua (aka Jesus due to innacurate translation... among many, a Hebrew name, it is NOT the Greek name). No deities allowed to be added, no romanized pagan trinities. Just God. And only God. Man can not bring man to heaven. Only God.

So, now I have to also pray for man-worshipping believers, such as yourself Leidenschaftlich für Wahr, that you will learn to only bow before one God and no other, any other is complete paganism and a grave sin. But, unfortunately for you, you will be the one who will be forced by God Himself to bow only to Him.

"Thou shalt have no other gods before Me.” (Exodus 20:3)...in case you are not familiar with the first commandment.

"Thus does God command you, that you may remember. Verily, this is my straight path: follow it, and do not follow other paths which will separate you from God's path. Thus does God command you, that you may be righteous.” Qur'an 6:151-153

speakez66,
You have made a good point with that post.
However I think that the return of Jesus Christ is much sooner than 200o years from now.
Most of the prophesies for the return have been fulfilled.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

speakez66,
You have made a good point with that post.
However I think that the return of Jesus Christ is much sooner than 200o years from now.
Most of the prophesies for the return have been fulfilled.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Well, to each his own.

Golden_Girl,
Yes, that is the way it is.
Fred

Golden_Girl,
Yes, that is the way it is.
Fred

Maybe a little off topic, but I wanted to intervene. While I have no interest in religion, one thing does interest me (that no religion I know of has an answer to other than Mormonism) and that is the question of the origin of consciousness. You know, what makes me me and not you? What is it that made me inhabit my body and be born a male (and a gay one at that)?

Caddy,

Well as you already know, I am a fundy and I believe the Bible to be absolute truth. So the answer to your question, if I understand it correctly, would be the LORD himself...

Jeremiah 1:5

Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you. Before you were born, I set you apart for my holy purpose

Notice he said BEFORE the womb he knew you...

Caddy,

Well as you already know, I am a fundy and I believe the Bible to be absolute truth. So the answer to your question, if I understand it correctly, would be the LORD himself....

Jeremiah 1:5

Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you. Before you were born, I set you apart for my holy purpose

Notice he said BEFORE the womb he knew you.....

See the Mormons believe that we pre-existed our entry into this world as spirit beings with god and that we had consciousness and identity. Then, according to them, we enter this world and aren't able to recall our prior existence and that our presence here is a testing ground of sorts. Now of course I don't believe any of it, but at least it's an explanation. Your bible quote really is no answer because all it could mean is that we existed in the mind of god before we were born, not necessarily that we had consciousness. In other words, we didn't really exist or have consciousness but that god in his foreknowledge knew we would exist in the future and knew us in that sense. But thanks for the try.

Hi, Golden Girl.

Scripture samples for your consideration.

Gen 1:26
26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
(KJV)
Obviously, a singular person would not say US.

John 8:58
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
(KJV)
A statement that can only be made by an immortal

Matt 28:18
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
(KJV)

Here's something else to consider; have you ever seen anyone healed of a physical condition throough prayer in the name of Mohammed?

I have seen people healed in the name of Jesus.

Maranatha!

Galveston thanks for your opinion as you are entitled to it. But, that will not make me to "re-convert". The question being asked was "Who is Jesus to you?", I knew once I answered with my opinion all sorts of people were going to rush and try and attack me for my statement. But the question was "Who is Jesus to you?", so if that is what Jesus is to you, I am not going to try and force you to change your decision. But, I'll definitely defend Why I said what I said and back it up with ful evidence.

In deed he was a great prophet from God and performed many miracles just as some of the other prophets had done before him. Some people say, "well he was the son of God"... so was Adam and God's angels and it was mentioned in the bible, but does that mean that Adam and the angels Are therefore God? Nope.

As I had mentioned before, unfortunately, the bible has been, and still is, diluted and causing further divisions and sects of beliefs. There were hundreds of scholars who were used to create and re-create different versions of the bible over the centuries. Scholars cannot fully agree with the work of other scholars. Sorry, but no translation was "inspired", because they were put together, altered, and adulterated by men.

The bible has been numerously altered with man-made fabricated beliefs. I 100% reject any man-made additions given from Paulotheistic believers, Constantine believers, King James version believers, Druids, and any revisions from deceitful scribes and scholars whose only interests were to blend and combine religions and help their kings/emporers to secure political power over their little kingdoms in order to make pagans "happy" and comfortable to "convert" a little.

I do not believe the entire bible is false, but it is a proven fact (even from biblical scholars) that the bible has suffered many alterations, deletions, and additions due to personal and selfish reasons. Your fact and scriptural "evidence" versus my scriptural evidence only further proves the fact that in hundreds of biblical passages are contradicting itself. It states this... and yet it states that. How do you know 100% for sure that that was what he said since many wordings have been added AND deleted? Faith is one thing, and something good to have, and yet truth and evidence is another as God does not want us to be blinded from the falsehood of others who thought it was kind of them to make such alterations.

Your question asked was "Here's something else to consider; have you ever seen anyone healed of a physical condition throough prayer in the name of Mohammed?"

-Number one Galveston, Mohammed NEVER claimed to be devine or a god. He was the last prophet that was actually prophesied in the bible and the torah.
-Mohammed had great respect for Jesus( Isa/Yeshuah).
-He died just as any other mortal.
-Prophet Mohammed did perform miracles only through GOD, as Mohammed was only mortal, he had always made this known.

So, please carefully read and understand and learn the facts first, that is very important.


A few references:
Miracles of Muhammad - Jews for Allah (http://www.jews-for-allah.org/Muhammad-and-Judaism/miracles-of-mohammed.htm)
ABOUT ISLAAM \ Who is Muhammad? (http://www.fatwa-online.com/aboutislaam/0020224_04.htm)

What Did Jesus Really Say ? - Table Of Contents
Prophet Jesus (PBUH) Never Claimed Divinity By Dr. Jamal Badawi
What Did Jesus Really Say ? - Summary: What is a "Trinity"?
The Trinity Doctrine. True or False ?

Is There a Right and Wrong Translation of the Bible?
The Trinity -- Fact or Fiction?
Jesus Christ: Prophet, Priest, and King
The Truth about Jesus Christ
What are the ERRORS in the King James Version Bible? - Part 1 of 2

Some people say, "well he was the son of God"...so was Adam and God's angels and it was mentioned in the bible, but does that mean that Adam and the angels Are therefore God? Nope.

John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

John 3:8 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

1 John 4:9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.

Matthew 1:3 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.



As I had mentioned before, unfortunately, the bible has been, and still is, diluted and causing further divisions and sects of beliefs. There were hundreds of scholars who were used to create and re-create different versions of the bible over the centuries. Scholars cannot fully agree with the work of other scholars. Sorry, but no translation was "inspired", because they were put together, altered, and adulterated by men.

The Massorah does exist today

The Sopherim were the authorized revisers of the Sacred Text; and, their work being completed, the Massorites were the authorized custodians of it. Their work was to preserve it. The Massorah is called "A Fence to the Scriptures," because it locked all words and letters in their places.

The Text itself had been fixed before the Massorites were put in charge of it. This had been the work of the Sopherim. Their work, under Ezra and Nehemiah, was to set the Text in order after the return from Babylon; and we read of it in Neh. 8:8 (*1) (cp. Ezra 7:6, 11). The men of "the Great Synagogue" completed the work. This work lasted about 110 years, from Nehemiah to Simon the first, 410 - 300 B.C.

Example of the Massorah locked in by numbers to refer back to the original Sacred Text

Replied to satan:

Matthew 4:4 But 1161 he answered 611 and said 2036 , It is written 1125 , Man 444 shall 2198 0 not 3756 live 2198 by 1909 bread 740 alone 3441, but 235 by 1909 every 3956 word 4487 that proceedeth 1607 out of 1223 the mouth 4750 of God 2316.

Sndbay, the word "begotton" was referred to more than one. Sorry, but we are all still entitled to our own opinion, hence the question being asked was "Who is Jesus to you?".

The fact is, that to call Him the only Son of God would make the Bible contradict itself, for He is not the only Son of God, and certainly not the "one and only" Son of God.

Angels are several times called the sons of God (e.g., Job 38:7) since they had no fathers, being directly created by God. Likewise, Adam was called the son of God (Luke 3:38), because he was directly created. The same applies even to fallen angels (Genesis 6:2), and even to Satan (Job 1:6), because they also were created beings.

The term is also used in a spiritual sense, of course, for those who have become "new creations" in Christ Jesus by faith (II Corinthians 5:17; Ephesians 2:10; etc.). In this sense, we also are "sons of God" (e.g. I John 3:2) by special creation?not physically but spiritually.

Psalm 2:6-8 (King James Version)
6Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee. 8Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.

From the NIV:

Psalm 2:6-8 (New International Version)
6 "I have installed my King [a]
On Zion, my holy hill."
7 I will proclaim the decree of the LORD :
He said to me, "You are my Son [b] ;
today I have become your Father. [c]
8 Ask of me,
And I will make the nations your inheritance,
The ends of the earth your possession.

Can the word Son have a symbolic meaning? Yes. The word υιος (or huios, word #5207 in Strong's Concordance) has been used in a symbolic sense in these passages, among others:

To them he gave the name Boanerges, which means Sons of Thunder
—Mark 3:17
Adam, the son of God.
—Luke 3:38
Sndbay:
You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus
—Galatians 3:26

"For God so loved the world
that he gave his one and only Son,
that whoever believes in him
shall not perish
but have eternal life."
—John 3:16, New International Version (NIV), 1973.
The NIV adds as a footnote,
3:16 Or his only begotten Son

In The Zondervan Pictorial Encyclopedia in Five Volumes, 1975, Vol A-C, p. 510, we find:
BEGOTTEN (BEGETTING) Various forms of the roots and "beget," are frequent in the OT both in the literal sense (Deut 23:8) and the metaphorical (Job 38:28; of the deposit of dew). Psalm 2:7 uses the word of God's relationship to the Messianic king. Perhaps, in its application to a Davidic king, this was originally divine "adoption" to sonship; if so cf. Galatians 4:5. When understood prophetically of Christ, the word passes far beyond the adoptionist sense. In the NT, the literal sense is still common (e.g. Matt 1:1-16) but the metaphorical use is greatly extended. For instance, in I Corinthians 4:15 an evangelist may be said to have "begotten" his converts to new spiritual life. Corresponding to this "begotten" is the usual word to describe the relation of the believers to God (John 1:13, 1 Pet 1:3, etc.) This means that Christians are , "children" of God (John 1:12).
Christ, by contrast is , "son" of God, to John, but this verb is not used in the NT to describe God's relationship to Him. "Only-begotten" (1:14, etc.) is a mistranslation in older VSS of "only," "unique" prob. corresponding to Heb. , of which "beloved" is another NT tr. See also SON OF GOD.
BIBLIOGRAPHY. G. Abbot-Smith, Manual Greek Lexicon of the NT (1937); W. F. Arndt and F. W. Gingrich, Greek-English Lexicon of the NT (1957). [R. A. COLE]

-There are a number of passages the word "begotten" is used, but it is usually metaphorically, and never literal when associated with God.
-There are a few more in the King James Version, but in those other places it is a mistranslation of monogenes according to the unanimous opinion among the scholars of the Greek language.

The term "son of God" too is used in a variety of ways in the Holy Bible. As creator, God is the "Father" of Adam and of all mankind (Luke 3:38; Isaiah 64:8; Malachi 2:10; etc.). However, a more specific "Father-son" relationship is achieved by the gracious choice of the Father and the faithful obedience and service of the son, not by creation and certainly not by procreation. In this sense, the following are some of those referred to as "son(s) of God" in the Bible:

1. The people chosen by God (Exodus 4:22f.; Jeremiah 31:9,20; Hosea 11:1; Romans 8:14; II Corinthians 6:18; Galatians 3:26; Hebrews 2:10; Revelation 21:7)
2. Heavenly beings (Job 1:6)
3. Kings and rulers (II Samuel 7:14; Psalm 2:7; 82:6; 89:26f.)
4. Pious, godly individuals (Matthew 5:9; Luke 6:35)

"Matthew 1:3 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us."
... and your point is?

The Quran states: "The similitude of Jesus before God is as that of Adam; He created him from dust, then said to him: 'Be.' And he was." (Qur'an 3:59).

(Remember) When the angels said O Mary! God Gives thee Good News of a son through a Word from Him! His name shall be the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, honoured in this world and in the next, and of those who Are Granted Nearness to God! (3.45)

And he shall speak to the people in the cradle, and when of middle age, and he shall be of The Righteous (3.46)

She said My Lord! How shall I have a son when no man has touched me ? He Said, That is as it shall be. God Creates what He Pleases. When He decrees a thing He says to it "Be" and it is! (3.47)

Quran 112:1-4: "He is the One and only GOD. "The Absolute GOD."Never did He beget. Nor was He begotten."None equals Him."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_view_of_Mary]Islamic view of Mary - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
http://www.islamfortoday.com/galvan03.htm]Jesus and The Virgin Mary in Islam - By Juan Galvan

Hi, Golden Girl.

John 14:1
1 Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.
(KJV)

Luke 6:46
46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
(KJV)

I don't think you have dealt with this yet.

John 8:58
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
(KJV)

Of course, if you do not accept the words in the Bilbe, then I have nothing else to offer.

Maranatha

PS: Jesus' resurrection and His promise to return for His saints shows Him to be far more than a prophet, priest, or earthly king. Think about it.

cadillac59,
I also that God KNEW us before we were born or in the womb.
If fact He knew us as persons.
Therefore I also believe that an abortion kills a person.
You may not believe that, but it is what I believe.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Galveston, I'm thinking you didn't read my posts... but anyway you are off topic. The topic isn't about how to make people convert, so you must learn to respect my opinion and move on.

Well, GG,
You quote Scriptures, I quote Scriptures.

Perhaps we should both move on.

Maranatha

Hebrews 1:5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?

Hebrews 1:6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

Hebrews 1:13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?

Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Well, GG,
You quote Scriptures, I quote Scriptures.

Perhaps we should both move on.

Maranatha

I agree, as they are both scriptures

It is very good that Scriptures have been quoted here on this subject.
Jesus Christ IS my Lord and Savior along with The Father and The Holy Spirit in trinity.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Fred,

Jesus Christ is MY Lord and savior and because of him, the Holy spirit dwells inside of me and one day I will be in the presence of the Father and His Son... the Lion from the Tribe of Judah! What a day that will be!

classyT,
Yes what a day that will be for all good Christians.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Golden girl
It is written that in the beginning was the Word and the Word was God.
Who is this Word? If you say it is the Father then think, does the Father have a beginning?
No He does not, then who is this Word?
It is His begotten Son, His name is the Word.The Father's Son's name is the Word as written in the book of Revelation also!
It is written that man was made in their image. Who are they? If you say it is the majestic plural of the Father think, does the Father have an image?Does He have any kind of shape,limits... No He does not!
But man was created in their image!
It is written that no one can see God and live, yet Abraham saw God,Isaac saw God, Jacob saw God,Moses saw God,Daniel saw God,Isaiah saw God,Manohe and his wife both saw God and they all lived.So who did they see?
''Son of'' in Hebrew has also the meaning of ''in the image of '', so God's begotten Son the Word has His image and in His image we are made.The Word has the image of His Father and we have the image of the Word,so we are made in their image!
In Hebrew there is this antonym ATAH/HU which is translated in English YOU/HE.
Many people in the OT when got in touch with God said to Him, '' Lord, ATAH/HU ( YOU/HE ) are God '' which indicates that they knew that more than one person is called God, because it is like I am talking to you and telling you that you and someone else are human f.e. yet as the first of all commandments declare YHVH ELOHIM YHVH ECHAD, The Lord your Gods is one united Lord, for ELOHIM is the plural of EL which means God.ECHAD means united one as used in the Jewish text referring to the union of a man and a woman or in the union of day and night!
So, who is Jesus? He is The Word incarnated, the image of the invisble God, God's begotten Son.
Is God's Son less God than His Father is?
If my son is less human than myself then God's begotten Son is also less God than His Father, but we know that humans give birth ONLY to humans and as God says this is good!
So when Yeshuah claimed that God is His Father He insantly made Himself equal to His Father and that's why He was crucified.
Does Yeshuah claim that His Father is greater than Him? Yes He does!
Do I claim that my father is greater than me?Yes I do,because I would not be without him!
Yeshuah is the Word and everything is made through Him and for Him.
Why did His Father made us?Because He wants a bride for His Son!!
So is Yeshuah God?
Oh YES, there is no doubt about that!

adam7gur,
Well said.
Fred

Golden girl
It is written that in the beginning was the Word and the Word was God.
Who is this Word? If you say it is the Father then think, does the Father have a beginning?
No He does not, then who is this Word?
It is His begotten Son, His name is the Word.The Father's Son's name is the Word as written in the book of Revelation also!
It is written that man was made in their image. Who are they? If you say it is the majestic plural of the Father think, does the Father have an image?Does He have any kind of shape,limits...No He does not!
But man was created in their image!
It is written that noone can see God and live, yet Abraham saw God,Isaac saw God, Jacob saw God,Moses saw God,Daniel saw God,Isaiah saw God,Manohe and his wife both saw God and they all lived.So who did they see?
''Son of'' in Hebrew has also the meaning of ''in the image of '', so God's begotten Son the Word has His image and in His image we are made.The Word has the image of His Father and we have the image of the Word,so we are made in their image!
In Hebrew there is this antonym ATAH/HU which is translated in English YOU/HE.
Many people in the OT when got in touch with God said to Him, '' Lord, ATAH/HU ( YOU/HE ) are God '' which indicates that they knew that more than one person is called God, because it is like I am talking to you and telling you that you and someone else are human f.e. yet as the first of all commandments declare YHVH ELOHIM YHVH ECHAD, The Lord your Gods is one united Lord, for ELOHIM is the plural of EL which means God.ECHAD means united one as used in the Jewish text reffering to the union of a man and a woman or in the union of day and night!
So, who is Jesus? He is The Word incarnated, the image of the invisble God, God's begotten Son.
Is God's Son less God than His Father is?
If my son is less human than myself then God's begotten Son is also less God than His Father, but we know that humans give birth ONLY to humans and as God says this is good!
So when Yeshuah claimed that God is His Father He insantly made Himself equal to His Father and that's why He was crucified.
Does Yeshuah claim that His Father is greater than Him? Yes He does!
Do I claim that my father is greater than me?Yes I do,because I would not be without him!
Yeshuah is the Word and everything is made through Him and for Him.
Why did His Father made us?Because He wants a bride for His Son!!!
So is Yeshuah God?
Oh YES, there is no doubt about that!


Adam7gur are you Jewish?

Which sons of God... or "begotten" sons? As there were many:

Did you know that God also "begotten" David? Israel was called "Son" as well as God's first born. All of these things were written in the bible, but why do so many desire to ignore these verses:confused:? It is fine that you disagree with me, but why do you disagree with your bible? Can you answer that or continue to ignore what it states?

Psalm 2:7 "....Jehovah had said onto me (David), thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee." Here in this verse we see that God not only called David his "Son", but also had made him his begotten Son.

Exodus 4:22 "Thus saith Jehovah (Yahweh), Israel is my son, even my firstborn." Here we see in this verse that Israel is not only God's so called "Son", but also His first born! Does this mean that Jehovah (Yahweh) is Israel? Does it mean that we must worship Israel as Jehovah or Allah? Of course not!

Jeremiah 31:9 "I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn." Ephraim in this verse means Israel. This verse is similar to Exodus 4:22.

No where in the Old Testament prophesies (Torah) the messiah was called 'the only begotten son of God. Christians are and will continue to add to the Bible like they have always done. This is a New Testament addition, not a Old Testament prophecy.

"Seth is the son of Adam' and that "Adam is the son of God." (Lk 3:36)

"Son of God" is same as "Servant of God" in Hebrew. Jesus Did Not claim to be God, or even equal to God. When called Jesus, "Good master" he replied only God is Good and to keep His Commandments.

"And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments."
Matthew 19:17

"And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God." Mark 10:18

The term "son of God" too is used in a variety of ways in the Holy Bible. As creator, God is the "Father" of Adam and of all mankind (Luke 3:38; Isaiah 64:8; Malachi 2:10; etc.). However, a more specific "Father-son" relationship is achieved by the gracious choice of the Father and the faithful obedience and service of the son, not by creation and certainly not by procreation. In this sense, the following are some of those referred to as "son(s) of God" in the Bible:

1. The people chosen by God (Exodus 4:22f.; Jeremiah 31:9,20; Hosea 11:1; Romans 8:14; II Corinthians 6:18; Galatians 3:26; Hebrews 2:10; Revelation 21:7)
2. Heavenly beings (Job 1:6)
3. Kings and rulers (II Samuel 7:14; Psalm 2:7; 82:6; 89:26f.)
4. Pious, godly individuals (Matthew 5:9; Luke 6:35)

... I know, well said GG ;)

Golden_Girl,
I think that Adam is not disagreeing with the bible at all.
God begot all of us but Jesus was begotten in a far different way.
We are all sons and daughters of God, but Jesus is God's son in a much different way.
Jesus is the word of God made flesh, we are not.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Golden_Girl,
I think that Adam is not disagreeing with the bible at all.
God begot all of us but Jesus was begotten in a far different way.
We are all sons and daughters of God, but Jesus is God's son in a much different way.
Jesus is the word of God made flesh, we are not.
:)Peace and kindness,:)
Fred

Adam7gur are you Jewish??

Which sons of God...or "begotten" sons? As there were many:

Did you know that God also "begotten" David? Israel was clled "Son" as well as God's first born. All of these things were written in the bible, but why do so many desire to ignore these verses:confused:? It is fine that you dissagree with me, but why do you dissagree with your bible? Can you answer that or continue to ignore what it states?

Psalm 2:7 "....Jehovah had said onto me (David), thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee." Here in this verse we see that God not only called David his "Son", but also had made him his begotten Son.

Exodus 4:22 "Thus saith Jehovah, Israel is my son, even my firstborn." Here we see in this verse that Israel is not only God's so called "Son", but also His first born! Does this mean that Jehovah is Israel? Does it mean that we must worship Israel as Jehovah or Allah? Of course not !!!

Jeremiah 31:9 "I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn." Ephraim in this verse means Israel. This verse is similar to Exodus 4:22.

No where in Old Testament prophesies (Torah) the messiah was called 'the only begotten son of God. Christians are and will continue to add to the Bible like they have always done. This is a New Testament addition, not a Old Testament prophecy.

"Seth is the son of Adam' and that "Adam is the son of God." (Lk 3:36)

"Son of God" is same as "Servant of God" in Hebrew. Jesus Did Not claim to be God, or even equal to God. When called Jesus, "Good master" he replied only God is Good and to keep His Commandments.

"And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments."
Matthew 19:17

"And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God." Mark 10:18

The term "son of God" too is used in a variety of ways in the Holy Bible. As creator, God is the "Father" of Adam and of all mankind (Luke 3:38; Isaiah 64:8; Malachi 2:10; etc.). However, a more specific "Father-son" relationship is achieved by the gracious choice of the Father and the faithful obedience and service of the son, not by creation and certainly not by procreation. In this sense, the following are some of those referred to as "son(s) of God" in the Bible:

1. The people chosen by God (Exodus 4:22f.; Jeremiah 31:9,20; Hosea 11:1; Romans 8:14; II Corinthians 6:18; Galatians 3:26; Hebrews 2:10; Revelation 21:7)
2. Heavenly beings (Job 1:6)
3. Kings and rulers (II Samuel 7:14; Psalm 2:7; 82:6; 89:26f.)
4. Pious, godly individuals (Matthew 5:9; Luke 6:35)

...I know, well said GG ;)

Golden girl
You asked for an answear, so here it comes.
You quoted psalm 2 and you claim that the Lord speaks about David in that psalm but as you wrote '' Christ '' is not a name but it points out to what Jesus is. In Greek , and by the way , I am Greek, ''Christ'' means the ''anointed one'' and Psalm 2:2 says The kings of the earth set themselves, and the rulers take counsel together, against the LORD, and against his anointed!
You say that God is calling David His begotten because it is written Psalm 2:7 I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
Verse 8 says Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession.
We all know that David has not been given the heathen for his inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for his possession , because they were given to Jesus alone, so it is clear that God is not talking about David here but about Jesus.
The Psalm goes on like this.. 9 Thou shalt break them with a rod of iron; thou shalt dash them in pieces like a potter's vessel.

10 Be wise now therefore, O ye kings: be instructed, ye judges of the earth.

11 Serve the LORD with fear, and rejoice with trembling.

12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in him.
Do you still believe that this is about David?Do you think that God blesses all those who put their trust on David or on Jesus?
Is Israel God's son and His begotten?
You Know that the Bible clearly states that God called Abraham and through Abraham God created Israel, so why do you find it strange that Israel is called God's son even His first born or begotten since all the rest of us who are saved are saved through Israel because it is written that salvation comes through the Jews.

You say that nowhere in the OT is the Son called begotten but this is wrong.Psalm 2 proves you wrong and I may add to that the following Isaiah 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.
The Son's name , for He is called so , is Mighty God, Everlasting Father.If you think that the term ''begotten son'' is too much for the Son, what do you think about these names of the Son?

You quoted "And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is God." Mark 10:
Don't you think that all those Torah students that came to Jesus and called Him good, did not know that only God is good? Yes they did know that, still they called Jesus good and Jesus says in other words '' if you call me good and you know that God is the only good,can't you see that I AM God?''
They saw that Jesus is good still they could not believe that He is God!
So as you see I am not at all dissagreeing with my Bible 'cause my bible is my faith in the gospel of Jesus Christ.That is my Bible and not just some ink on paper. I AM the son of the free and not the son of the slave. I AM Isaak, not Ishmael! Galatians 4 :22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman.
23 His son by the slave woman was born in the ordinary way; but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a promise.
30 But what does the Scripture say? "Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman's son."
You will never inheritance the blessings of the son of the free until you believe in Jesus Christ and become son of the free!
May God bless you !

adam7gur
Excellent answer ti her; much better than mine.
Yours is more to the point.
Fred

adam7gur
Excellent answer ti her; much better than mine.
Yours is more to the point.
Fred

I stand by you brother!

Thanks, and I with you.
Peace and kindness with pax Christi,
Fred

Hmmm... yeah I knew that you were unable to answer the question. Too challenging perhaps :p oh well...

Golden_Girl,
I think that Adam is not disagreeing with the bible at all.
God begot all of us but Jesus was begotten in a far different way.
We are all sons and daughters of God, but Jesus is God's son in a much different way.
Jesus is the word of God made flesh, we are not.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Sorry Arcura, but in the bible it never once stated that the others were begotten in a different way, Jesus was indeed special from God. If Adam was not disagreeing, then what was the purpose of him repsonding to my post? His response is his own, but that will not change mine, as I will only further give scriptural evidence that contradicts the other.

Golden_Girl,
You and I were begotten by our human parents,
Jesus was begotten by Mary and by God as overshadowed by the Holy Spirt.
To me and many others that shows that there was a huge difeerence.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Golden girl
The Son was born directly from the Father for it is written that He is the begotten God that was in the bossom of the Father. The Son was born before anything else came to existence because it is written that everything was made by the Word and the Son's name is The Word of God as written in Revelation.
The Word, God's Son is the only one who is born like this, in this special and unique way, THAT makes Him God's begotten.
Do not think that the Son was born when He was incarnated,because The Son is God's Son even in the OT and way before the OT as the Son declares , before Abraham I AM. And if He is a Son then He is no doubt born at some time way before TIME was created. He is out of time so He is eternal.
We humans are made by the Word from soil.
There is a huge difference!
All this is in the Bible. The point that I dissagree with you is your statement that God's Son is not God.
You claim that He is human while I believe what the Bible says that He is God who became flesh.
But the son of the slave will never inheritance the blessings of the son of the free because the son of the slave will not believe because he is a son of slavery, a son of knowing good and evil and not a son of Life!
As long as you choose to eat the fruit of knowing good and evil, you will have no Life!

I am not saying this is so, I am quoting. As I did not write the bible. These are exact quotes and should be seriously considered. You have to address your concerns to the Bible and not with me, this goes beyond just me. It is clear that the bible also states that David was also the begotten son by God, so Jesus was not the "only begotten" son of God, as stated in the New Testament that you are continuously referring to. So which is true and which is false? As each contradicts the other.

I hear what you are saying, your statements both supports AND contradicts versus of the bible, depending on the verse. Because you are only quoting scriptures from the New Testament and revising pieces of certain parts of the Old T., continuing to restate statements from the New Testament. So does that mean you consider the Old Testament should be voided, excluded, and ignored? If you believe that it should be, then I understand your point of view and where you are coming from.

But if you also consider the Old Testament as true then you must explain both and not omit the other. I do not mind if Acura completely sides with your view because the two of you are of the same religion and not of mine. Because if I say the sky is blue and you say "no, it is green and black", of course he will agree... lol, but that does not mean it is true. If you both disagree what is written in your own bible then this is a serious matter for all, but that's your choice to pick. Does your bible also contain the Old Testament and do you value those words as well...or only certain parts?

''Son of'' in Hebrew has also the meaning of ''in the image of ''
... sorry, but the bible also states that we are all created in the image of God. Even Adam was created in the image of God, so this statement refers to several and your belief is voided. So you can define as many Hebrew words as you wish, as I consider them more important than it being written in Roman or English. But, you still ONLY refer to the New Testament and Not the Old, as both make up the parts of the bible and skipping around the question and asking questions with a question.

In Exodus 4 clearly speaks of God saying to the pharaoh that Israel is His son (as a people) and to let Israel go, we all should be familiar with this story so there is no reason to say that God was actually speaking to Jesus. False.

No, your is not more to the point, you are scattering around the point instead of going directly to it. But, that is your choice. But, do not try and force me to believe your view as yours leaves out many important parts. As I am the type of person that rather see the whole picture and not only pieces andpartial of it. If you don't like it then that is your choice, I'm not going to force you (sound familiar?) As you continue to quote, so will I and that's just the way it is.

Sorry, but Psalm 2:7 is directly speaking to David and not Jesus. Jesus' name was not mentioned here nor was it referring to Jesus. It should not be taken out of context. David and Jesus are not the same. Psalm 2:7 is a praise psalm that is also a royal psalm. Royal psalms were written for the reigning king of the house of David.

"Yet have I set my king upon my holy hill of Zion.
7I will declare the decree: the LORD hath said unto me, Thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.
8Ask of me, and I shall give thee the heathen for thine inheritance, and the uttermost parts of the earth for thy possession." Psalm 2:6

Also, take a look at Psalms 3 as it is David speaking to God, not Jesus. As well as Psalms 9, ...Why not take a look at the entire Psalms, as many (including Christians) consider it to have been written by David and about David, referring to David and his role as the anointed king...as God had instructed Samuel to anoint David. Did you forget? Fact is fact, nothing should be added by man. Nothing should be deleted by man. Nothing should be twisted by man.

It was not I that have proven you wrong but God has proven you wrong. It is when man chooses to add his own additions and interpretations to suit his own personal needs does it cause confusion and disruption instead of keeping focus. There is no reason to cherry pick, but if you like cherries then pick a way... but I'm not picking with you. Confusion is not of God. You have your belief and I have mine. You can see Jesus as however you desire, but do not try and force me (as many Westernized Christians are known to do) to your own personal beliefs because I will also only quote what was written. Why not quote it all...instead of preferring to pick and choose what your heart desires.

If you wish, then maybe you should consider starting your own thread about "How to convert others who do not believe the same as you do...even when your own evidence contradicts it's self." Your bible is the New Testament and maybe a couple of verses of the Old Testament if it seems to fit with how you wish.

As I find your contradictions quite amusing. Your quarrel and debate should not be with me, but with your own conscious. Your conscious should not dwell on me, but with yourself. God bless inshallah.



"Why do you call me good? Answered Jesus, No-one is good but God alone!" Mark 10:18

"My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd..."
Ezekiel 37:24-28 (David is stating what God has proclaimed regarding David's relationship to God)"
"I will proclaim the decree of the Lord: he said to me, you are my Son; this day have I begotten you." Psalms 2:7

“Because those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God." Romans 8:14

"Enos was the son of Seth, and Seth was the son of Adam, and Adam was the son of God." Luke 3:38 (Note that Adam, not Jesus, is listed in this genealogy of Jesus as the son of God, not Jesus.)

Golden_Girl,
YES there are if, ands and buts about it.
Many people kneel before an alter when the pray to God, I do.
If I should happen to kneel before a statue of Jesus when I pray to Him there is no difference.
If I am before a statue of a Saint such as Mary, the mother of God, and ask her to pray for me to her son there is no difference.
If you look at a picture of your grandfather and it brings back memories of him and you think of him there is little difference.
Please do NOT accuse me or other Catholics, or of other denominations who pay before statues of idolatry.
It is not idolatry unless someone is praying TO a statue.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

A



Arcura, when I said that "Praising or praying in front of a painting, statue, animals, other persons, or any other objects. That is all idol worship. There are no "ifs", "ands", or "buts" about it."

I was referring to the question being asked about "About Catholics and Statues" and also referring to the verses and surahs "Do those who disbelieve think that they can get away with setting up My servants as gods beside Me? We have prepared for the disbelievers Hell as an eternal abode." 18:102 and "You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above..." Exodus 20:3-6

I did not look to see if you had even posted, so my answer was not directed to you personally. Stop taking everything so personal and attacking everyone's answer that seems to disagree with yours. Everyone's entitled to their own beliefs and opinion, as I am also entitled to mine. No reason to always attack. I just wanted to clear that with you.

Golden Girl,

You do not understand the Bible. Jesus IS God.

In the Beginning was the WORD and the Word was with God... and the Word WAS God...

John 1:14 and the Word was made FLESH and dwelt among us.
The Bible is a self defining book.

Then again in John 8... Jesus said these words...

Before Abraham was I AM. ( In Exodus God told Moses to go before pharoh and tell him I AM sent him. And note the Jews knew EXACTLY what Jesus was saying.. he was saying HE WAS GOD. They then took up stones to stone him for saying such a thing.)


I'm not bothered by your LACK of understanding of the word of God.. nor am I amused by it. I also am NOT amused by your comment to Arcura. I would not and do not get on the Islam or any other board and argue the Quran. Although I believe it to be utterly false and those that follow it completely deceived. Why would I not do such a thing? Because although I think the religion is wrong, I know I wouldn't win one person over with that attitude. In the Bible we are told to use wisdom. And if we LACKED it, we should ask the Lord for it. ( that verse is in James) Your lack of respect for Arcura's faith in the Bible was not wise.. it was RUDE.

Golden Girl... your biggest problem is.. you ERR in not understanding the scripture. That's a bummer. :(

Classy T sorry to dissapoint you but I DO understand the bible.

No, I am not bothered by your LACK of understanding of the word of God, but amused that your bothered by your LACK of understanding of the word of God and trying to dictate on'e beliefs... oh did I confuse you?

Sorry, but words such as "ERR" and "bumer" is what a 12 year old would say when they lack the vocabulary what to say and how to say it... and you sure do not look 12 :p. Using words such as "bumer" and "ERR" is a lack of basic knowledge. You are better off deleting that as it looks foolish... lol

We all should be mature adults here and free to discuss in a civilized manner... which I see you seem to lack :rolleyes:

You are free to go on any forum that you wish and you can't tell me what to do, where to, nor how to post. But, I would not allow you to try and dictate others around just because you don't agree and dislike what ALL of the scriptures state
I am free to answer wherever I so choose, so if you don't like it then you can keep moving along Ms. T. As I am free to express my views without feeling suppressed or bullied :D.

The question was "Who is Jesus to you?" so if it deeply bothers you on how I answered this question or what scriptures state, then that is a big pill that you will just have to swallow as I did not ask for your opinion ;)

To say that you are not bothered and yet post such an immature post up here clearly expresses your innermost drama that you have with yourself as well as for others. Your deeply bothered because you are unable to answer these questions and your only statement when you are unable to answer is to say "Jesus is Lord" when you lack to understand the bible... but that's not an answer... as that is no different than you sticking your fingers in your ears or placing a blindfold over your eyes when you do not know the answer and have been proven wrong and want to see it only your way. That is fine. But, you can not and will not everyone to view everything your way... dictatoship is over Ms. T

I believe this thread should be closed by the Experts since views from other members are not considered as "orthodox", that are different, and therefore attacked. If other members feel that they need to force their views on who Jesus is to them and lack respect of versatile opinions other than their own, then it should be closed.

Golden Girl,
I did not intend to attack you. In fact I don't believe that I did.
I did earlier explain the difference in the use of the word begotten.
We are all begotten of the Father but in different ways than Jesus was.
Perhaps you missed that.
We are born of human parents, male and female.
Jesus was born of a human women and a Spiritual God.
There is a vast difference in those two different begottens.
By the way I do agree with ClassyT.
But yes you may understand the bible your way but not as many others do.
Peace and kindness,

Golden girl
It seems to me that you are the one not standing the fact that Jesus is God.I am sorry for that but I never forced you to see things the way I do.
As for If I accept the Ot as much as I do with the NT, I don't have to prove myself to you, my view is well posted in many threads right here and most of all, my belief is well known by my God through my faith in His Son,Jesus Christ!
You think you know the Bible but without faith you know nothing!
For we are not to be asked what do we know but what do we believe?
Even if you come to know the entire Bible till it's last Jod,without faith in it you will know nothing and the whole Bible from the beginning to the end is all about Jesus and you claim to know who Jesus is because you know some verses.I 'll tell you what you know... You know nothing.
'cause you may read a person's biography and know every little detail of his life, but does this mean that you really know this person?
I do not know every little detail of my father's life, still I assure you I KNOW him!
You cannot know my Father because you are Ishmael and you did not live with my Father because you are the son of the slave, while I AM the son of the free!
If you do not live with your Father how can you ever know Him?
I was also once Ishmael,but through my faith in Jesus, I AM Isaak!
Who is Jesus to you Golden girl? I'll tell you who He is!He is a total stranger to you!That's what you should have answeared to the OP's question and your statement would have been much more appriciated because it is the truth and there is nothing bad with the truth.But you pretend to know, therefore you know nothing!Even if you claim you know Him, He does not know you because you do not believe in Him!So until you become son of the free,do not try to tell the son of the free who his Father is!

Sorry to interrupt, but how do I stop getting emails sent to me every time someone posts something on this thread? No offense but this entire topic of who is Jesus to me bores me to no end.

Brother adam,
Well said.
Fred

Classy T sorry to dissapoint you but I DO understand the bible.

No, I am not bothered by your LACK of understanding of the word of God, but amused that your bothered by your LACK of understanding of the word of God and trying to dictate on'e beliefs...oh did I confuse you?

Sorry, but words such as "ERR" and "bumer" is what a 12 year old would say when they lack the vocabulary what to say and how to say it...and you sure do not look 12 :p. Using words such as "bumer" and "ERR" is a lack of basic knowledge. You are better off deleting that as it looks foolish...lol

We all should be mature adults here and free to discuss in a civilized manner...which I see you seem to lack :rolleyes:

You are free to go on any forum that you wish and you can't tell me what to do, where to, nor how to post. But, I would not allow you to try and dictate others around just because you don't agree and dislike what ALL of the scriptures state
I am free to answer wherever I so choose, so if you don't like it then you can keep moving along Ms. T. As I am free to express my views without feeling surpressed or bullied :D.

The question was "Who is Jesus to you?" so if it deeply bothers you on how I answered this question or what scriptures state, then that is a big pill that you will just have to swallow as I did not ask for your opinion ;)

To say that you are not bothered and yet post such an immature post up here clearly expresses your innermost drama that you have with yourself as well as for others. Your deeply bothered because you are unable to answer these questions and your only statement when you are unable to answer is to say "Jesus is Lord" when you lack to understand the bible...but that's not an answer...as that is no different than you sticking your fingers in your ears or placing a blindfold over your eyes when you do not know the answer and have been proven wrong and want to see it only your way. That is fine. But, you can not and will not everyone to view everything your way...dictatoship is over Ms. T

Golden Girl,
Whoa,
I wasn't unkind to you nor did I bully you. You HAVE expressed who you think Jesus is. And if someone forgot to thank you for YOUR THOUGHTs... then let me be the first to do so. Thank you Golden Girl. We ALL know who you think the Lord Jesus Christ is. You posted your OPINION. Using wisdom would be to say it and then leave. What you are doing is attacking our Faith and while it doesn't bother me like you assume it does... I speak my mind. I was candid with you. I wasn't unkind.

THe only one on here bullying anyone is YOU. All I said Incidentally is you ERR not understanding scripture. If you REALLY knew the Bible you'd know Jesus Christ said that to the Pharisee's of his day.. and IF I know my Bible like it think I do... he wasn't 12 when he said it. So all of your insulting words about me being immature and whatever else... is a wasted breath. ( or keyboard typing) Refer to Mathew 22:29 Jesus said this...

Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

I didn't attack you personally by calling you names and belittling you like YOU DID ME. I called you out on your lack of disrespect of Christianity.

I mostly stay on the Christian Board Golden Girl... so I'm not moving along. Sorry to disappoint you.

I love the Lord Jesus Christ. I love HIS word. IF my passion for him appears to be "drama"to you... how shall I put this? HMMMM? I DON'T CARE.

There is no dictatorship. And my name isn't MS. T.

Have a nice day.

Tess

Now we have come to the end, Let us tell each other that we love them! Who is Jesus to me? The only way to the Father, only by him am I saved from this cruel world full of sin. With out Jesus giving his life for me how could I live? With out my sins being covered by his blood God the Father would not even see me. I thank Jesus for giving me the chance to be seen by my Father who is in Heaven, not here on this earth that will soon pass away, but HEAVEN! I can't wait to see him face to face. If you know Jesus and he lives in your heart than you will have no doubts who is God and who is Jesus. It is through Jesus that you are able to talk straight to the Father. Call no man Father for there is only one who is in Heaven and will return to take his people home. So given this chance if you have questions isn't it wise to go straight to the source? That is what I will do tonight and I will include everyone in my prayers.
Love to all, In Christ Jesus Name I Pray

classyT,
I agree that Golden Girl errs and does not fully understand the bible.
I also agree with smithm that Jesus Christ is the way to heaven. He is my Lord and savior and to all who have follow His word and deeds and have faith in Him.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Golden Girl,
Whoa,
I wasn't unkind to you nor did I bully you. You HAVE expressed who you think Jesus is. And if someone forgot to thank you for YOUR THOUGHTs...then let me be the first to do so. Thank you Golden Girl. We ALL know who you think the Lord Jesus Christ is. You posted your OPINION. Using wisdom would be to say it and then leave. What you are doing is attacking our Faith and while it doesn't bother me like you assume it does...I speak my mind. I was candid with you. I wasn't unkind.

THe only one on here bullying anyone is YOU. All i said INCIDENTLY is you ERR not understanding scripture. If you REALLY knew the Bible you'd know Jesus Christ said that to the Pharisee's of his day..and IF i know my Bible like it think I do...he wasn't 12 when he said it. So all of your insulting words about me being immature and whatever else...is a wasted breath. ( or keyboard typing) Refer to Mathew 22:29 Jesus said this....

Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

I didn't attack you personally by calling you names and belittling you like YOU DID ME. I called you out on your lack of disrespect of Christianity.

I mostly stay on the Christian Board Golden Girl...so I'm not moving along. Sorry to disappoint you.

I love the Lord Jesus Christ. I love HIS word. IF my passion for him appears to be "drama"to you....how shall i put this? HMMMM? I DON"T CARE.

There is no dictatorship. and my name isn't MS. T.

Have a nice day.

Tess

Ms. T you are filled with too much drama... I dislike soap operas and I notice that you enjoy speaking LOUDLY LIKE THIS :p that's considered yelling and is not tolerated. Your posts were indeed judgemental and far from "classy". You're the one who brought up other boards so that is your problem, as I couldn't care less where you spend your time. I never did like bullies in school, so you will have to learn to respect my point of view and move on.

No Ms. T. It is your ignorance and your "unchristian-like" behavior that you allow to define who you are. Honestly, I think you are a disappointment to true Christians and they would laugh at your uncuth behavior. What was your purpose of even responding to my answer? I did not ask for your response. It was an answer and not a question. So, if you consider my point of view as threatening just because it is different, then maybe you need to go back up to the alter for prayer as that is very prejudice, dictatorship behavior, and insulting. Leave the drama outside where it belongs. You do not even speak sober... :o

Golden_Girl,
I'm a Christian and I agree with ClassyT's assessment of you.
I think others here will do so also.
You do not fully understand the bible or you would know that Jesus IS the son of God and God the son of the one and only triune God.
That is of course IF you believe what the bible says.
By the way I do NOT use uppercase letters to shout, rather, like ClassyT I use them for emphasis.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Golden girl
Wherever Christians are, they are gathered in His name and where two or three are gathered in My name says the Lord Jesus,the Son of God,The Mighty God,there I AM also!
You are here not in His name, you are here to insult Him and we as His one true Body cannot accept this.
Despite the denominations that we all come from,we are one under Him for He is the head and we are His body.Try to annoy the head and the rest of the body will not stand and watch, for if a scorpion tries to walk on the head, the hand will throw him down and the foot will smash it.
Be smashed golden girl because your points about our Lord are like a scorpion to Him! In the name of Jesus, be smashed!

Ms. T you are filled with too much drama...dislike soap operas and I notice thwt you enjpy speaking LOUDLY LIKE THIS :p that's considered yelling and is not tolerated. Your posts were indeed judgemental and far from "classy". Your the one who brought up other boards so that is your problem, as I could care less where you spend your time.

No Ms. T. It is your ignorance and your "unChristian-like" behavior that you allowed to define who you are. Honsetly, I think you are a dissapointment to other true Christians and they would laugh at your uncuth behavior. What was your purpose of even responding to my answer? It was an answer and not a question. So, if you consider my point of view as threatening then maybe you need to go back up to the alter for prayer. You do not even speak sober....:o

Golden Girl,

I hope you feel better now... nothing like slinging insults to make the flesh feel puffed up. Enjoy! :)



Fred,

I wanted to give you a greenie to balance the red one you received but I have to spread the love and it won't let me. Sorry my friend.

Ms T, when you direct insults to another, do expect them to be given in return. Adam7gur, if you read my earler post on this thread, not once did I attack nor forcefully attempt to persuade you. I chose to snswer this question and did not expect your barbaric nature to try and attack my opinion. You are very arrogant in your thinking and are hypocritical with your statements as you clearly say one thing and yet do the next (next page over).

But, answer the question that was being asked as Jesus is important to me as well, just in a different way. You must try and understand that others from all walks of life and beliefs are also posting here.. not only Christians. As there are also different denominations of Christianity who do not completely agree and posses their own differences as well. No two people will think exactly alike in all areas.

Adam7gur and Arcura, please do explain your purpose of attempting to persuade me to your view. Your view is yours, not mine and the same vice versa. You did direct your response to me, correct? As my name was mentioned. I respect your view, but you must all respect mine as well and stick to the question being asked. My view will not and never will change, as I will continue to also quote from the scriptures that are often overlooked, ignored, altered, and misinterpreted. So there is no need to continue to persuade or force me, either in a passive agreesive manner (Adam7gur and Arcura) or in an aggressive, uncooth, and dictatorship and manner (Ms. T).

A lesson to be learned. If a question is asked, everyone is free to respond to the question however they seem fit without being biased to the other who answers differently... even if you do not agree. A quite simple theory, but lacks to be practised. The forums should be a democratic community where others are free and not suppressed nor impelled to share our thoughts, beliefs, confirmations without being offended, persuaded to convert, nor insulted. Which is not possible ith me as I am free to share my evidence with others who wish to challenge, as I am very opinionated.

Even if the only agreement is to agree to disagree, as I had stated in an earlier post. Arcura, sorry but everyone does not think alike here as I have read several of the previous posts that were posted here.

Just because everyone does not think alike does not mean that they must be attacked.. not even in a passive aggressive manner which is also annoying. Thank you.

So Adam to say something such as for me to "Be smashed" is crazy and foolish, so I will leave you with these scriptures, since you feel the need to attack because I believe different than you, your not even speaking as a true "Christian" should ;). Nor do you have the authority to "smash" anything other than yourself. Please do read and ask God to have temper-control. Also learn to be at peace and do not attempt to respond to my posts any longer, respect my viewpoint, and be at peace:

Q. 3:113-114 They are not all the same; among the followers of the scripture, there are those who are righteous. They recite GOD's revelations through the night, and they fall prostrate.

John 11:52 And not for the nation only, but in order that He might also gather together into one the children of God who are scattered abroad.

Q. 2:62 & 5:69 Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the Christians, and the converts; anyone who (1) believes in GOD, and (2) believes in the Last Day, and (3) leads a righteous life, will receive their recompense from their Lord. They have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.

John 17:20 I do not ask on behalf of these alone, but for those also who believe in Me through their word.

Q. 7:159 Among the followers of Moses there are those who guide in accordance with the truth, and the truth renders them righteous.

Sndbay, if you wish to have premarital sex and also boast around of how Christian you are then do as you wish but you should also practice what you preach. Personally, I am against premarital sex and I chose to wait until I was married. But also that if it is truly in your heart to change and ask God for forgiveness, God is Most Merciful and understands what is in everyone's hearts. But, if you are Christian (or from any other religion that is against premarital sex) and are freely having sex out of marriage without how God feels about what you are doing. How is that showing a good example for the younger generations?..as they are watching and observing... Everyone does have the right to their own beliefs as I was referring to religious views.. hence the religious section. Sorry Sndbay, but that's not even following Christianity. Why say one thing and yet do the next? Why continue to ignore the problem instead trying to offer help and guide them. Why say one thing and yet do the next, excluding that others are watching you.. why not at least try be a good example.

Is it just me or is this an epidemic in the U.S. as well as overseas? Young girls having babies and no father, high risk of STDs such as HIV and AIDS, so many who lack morals. It is different from making a mistake (which we all do) and try to better yourself from it and change. But it is sad when it is done carelessly without considering the possible consequences and being a good role model for the younger generations and to not care what God thinks of what is being done.

Whatever happened to purity and being chaste? It is as though it does not exist anylonger. Being chaste has a lot to do with religion BUT also has a lot to do with morals, values, self-respect, waiting to bring a child in this world for the best for that child, diseases, hurt, shall I go on? Am I the only one who care and concerned about this? I know I can not stop it. But I can question it. Who else would guide those who are not being properly guided? You can do whatever you wish as I can not force you to do so. But, why not help guide the misguided.. because you never know, they may just be waiting to

Golden_Girl,
I'm a Christian and I agree with ClassyT's assessment of you.
I think others here will do so also.
You do not fully understand the bible or you would know that Jesus IS the son of God and God the son of the one and only triune God.
That is of course IF you believe what the bible says.
By the way I do NOT use uppercase letters to shout, rather, like ClassyT I use them for emphasis.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Sorry, but all Christians will not agree with you and definitely not with Ms. T. They may not agree with my view, but they will not agree with. It is you do not fully understand the bible and are bothered from what I have quoted. I seriously doubt that you believe what the bible says, no reason for me to even say "If", as you rather believe everyone else rather than the scriptures. You do not have the authority to tell me what is understood and because we do not think or view the same. Just because I'm not Catholic... many Christians don't even believe what you do:

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. Exodus 20:16

Thou shalt not raise a false report: put not thine hand with the wicked to be an unrighteous witness. Exodus 23:1

Besides, who said I stated that you were yelling? I was referring to Ms. T, as that was what she was clearly doing...I do not care much for loud mouths and people who do not know how to control themselves, as I am a woman and not a child). Next time you say peace and kindness, learn to act on it instead of just typing it and learn to finally respect the opinions of others (I am not only referring to myself, you know the others who I am speaking of... ). Learn to be democratic and agree to dissagree because just because someone does not agree with you, does not mean they are not of God or not understanding the bible. You are not God Arcura nor are you the "only" chosen one, so please learn to humble yourself. As others are allowed to dissagree with your opinions.

As I repeat, all Christians will not agree with you and definitely not with Ms. T. They may not agree with my view, but they will not agree with acting in a vulgar, boorish and uncivilized manner. You should be aware of that already, but here are some scriptures from your bible to meditate on to further define what I am saying, as you couldn't possibly dissagree with this as her behavior is definitely not of God... as these aren't my words, you know:

A hot tempered man (or woman) stirs up dissension, but a patient man calms a quarrel Proverbs. 15:18

Starting a quarrel is like breaching a dam; so drop the matter before a dispute breaks out Proverbs 17:14

It is to a man's honor to avoid strife, but every fool is quick to quarrel Proverbs 20:3

And the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful 2 Timothy 2:23-24

But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. Luke 6:35

Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. 1 Corinthians 13:4-7

;)

Oh I just had to add this!

Thou shalt not raise a false report: put not thine hand with the wicked to be an unrighteous witness. Exodus 23:1

Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice. Ephesians 4:31

Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge. James 4:11... *cough* Adam7gur

Thou shalt not raise a false report: put not thine hand with the wicked to be an unrighteous witness. Exodus 23:1

For I fear, lest, when I come, I shall not find you such as I would, and that I shall be found unto you such as ye would not: lest there be debates, envyings, wraths, strifes, backbitings, whisperings, swellings, tumults. 2 Corinthians 12:20

Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. Exodus 20:16

Golden Girl,
So??
I do not bear false witness about you.
I merely stated the truth.
How ever you are speaking against what and who Jesus is.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Golden girl
You did attack me personally by stating that Jesus is not God but only human as I would be attacking you personally if I stated that your Father is not human but a dog!
When I defend my faith is that a way to try to persuade you?No way!
I'll speak the Truth and if that Truth somehow haunts you it is not I that persuades you but it is the Truth.
And as for free speaking,free will,agree to dissagree and things like that I am telling you that these things belong to human political systems like democracy. When it comes to God, there is no democracy,there is only Theocracy. As you probably know ''democracy'' means the Kratos of the Demos .Kratos means power in Greek and Demos, is an extension of people, so democracy means the power of the people.What makes you think that the power of the people is the system that God wants for His own things? Things are not done by the power of the people but things are done by the power of God!
Your ancient points that you so well demonstrate through scripture and through other writings flow directly from the ancient source of magic that mixes good and evil through knowledge!Even before creation you do this when that ancient source rebellioned against the only Authourity.In Paradise that ancient source of magic mixed good and evil again and forced man and woman to fall from God's presence.Jesus restored what we lost in Paradise by defeating that ancient source of magic, and we have now the honor and opportunity to come into God's presence through our Faith in Jesus, the Son of God,the Almighty God, the Everlasting Father!
So your methods are no longer hidden.Your points have only one goal.To steal God's presence from man and woman that Jesus died for.
Your opinions are no different than the snake of Paradise and by the authourity given to every believer in Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit and by the Powere of the Holy Spirit I will not allow you to poison us again.
In the name of Jesus Christ be smashed!
My battle is not against flesh and blood Golden girl , my battle is against wicked spirits and there is no politeness in such a battle.
I do not see Jesus being polite to any wicked spirit nor do I see any of His believers.Nothing that I said is against you Golden girl , it is against the wicked spirit that you demonstrate and to that spirit the Body of Christ will never be kind.I will never be kind to snakes and scorpions because I know well how they hate us humans.I have seen their hatred on myself and how they tried to destroy me,but the Lord Jesus delievered me from their authourity and power over me.
Come to the Freedom Golden girl, come to Life,come to Light,come to Jesus and throw away those things that steal the Presence of God from you,because being in the Presence of God is Life!
I ask you to see who Jesus is and receive Him and accept Him for who He really is, in the name of Jesus Christ, Amen!

Just wanted to get people's opinion of who Jesus is to you and why you feel the way you do? no trick, just want to discuss...


We turst in all that was written, and we believe that we live by every word spoken from the mouth of God.

The law of God told us (Deu 18:15 The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken)

And the Law of God told us (Deu 18:22 When a prophet speaketh in the name of the LORD, if the thing follow not, nor come to pass, that [is] the thing which the LORD hath not spoken, the prophet hath spoken it presumptuously: thou shalt not be afraid of him)

So we look to what is spoken from Jesus, and even on the cross did HIS words cry out to teach us.
(Matthew 27:46 And about the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eli, Eli, lama sabachthani? That is to say, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?)
and witnessed again in
(Mark 15:34 And at the ninth hour Jesus cried with a loud voice, saying, Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani? Which is, being interpreted, My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me?)
On the cross Jesus teaching, as the prophet we were promised that God would send to us, and HIS words shown in truth of (Psalms 22:1-31) and all that was foretold that would take place.

Everything that was ever said and done by the begotten Son of God, had the power of God, and the glory of God shown in it.

Matthew 21:11 And the multitude said, This is Jesus the prophet of Nazareth of Galilee.

Mark 6:4 But Jesus said unto them, A prophet is not without honour, but in his own country, and among his own kin, and in his own house.

Luke 24:19 And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people:

John 6:13-14 Therefore they gathered them together, and filled twelve baskets with the fragments of the five barley loaves, which remained over and above unto them that had eaten. Then those men, when they had seen the miracle that Jesus did, said, This is of a truth that prophet that should come into the world.

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works.

1 John 5:8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in ONE.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 1:14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us,[B] (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.


Refer: Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness:

Golden Girl,
So????
I do not bear false witness about you.
I merely stated the truth.
How ever you are speaking against what and who Jesus is.
Peace and kindness,
Fred

Arcura, Actually you did. As I remind you, these are your words "You do not fully understand the bible" and "That is of course IF you believe what the bible says" :). That means I merely just stated the truth about you as well. No. I am not speaking against I am speaking for. Why is it a big deal how I think and believe... unless you consider me in your way and you are overly sensitive? You will just have to agree to dissagree whether you like it or not. Simple.

Adam7gur I believe you have become possessed and I think it is pitiful.. I seriously do. No one attacked you personally, you attacked yourself. I don't even know who you are and could care less who you are. I will defend my faith at any cost as well, but I wouldn't disrespect
Someone just because they think differentl from me... unless attempt to cause a dispute with me. So if you wish to brawl for the next 20, 30, or 40 years or even more then so be it, but you do not have the authority to tell me what and how I should think or believe. As my answer is my answer alone and it was not intentionally directed towards you, but if you wish it to be then so it as well.

And the answer is No, everyone on AMHD comes from numerous backgrounds with thoughts and beliefs freely to speak their own mind without being suppressed by people like you... as I can never be suppressed from you nor anyone else, as I love speaking my mind and my beliefs when questioned. You do not have to hear what I have to say so you are free to stick your fingers in your ears, kick your feet, and whine all you wish. This isn't Greece.

You should be ashamed of yourself of how you act and speak. If I knew who your minister was I would surely tell him of how "ungodly" you have been acting and he would chastise you quick. Why would you allow someone else's beliefs shake you? Get over yourself already and learn some self-discipline. As you surely need prayer, and I will pray for you, as I am not the That kind of person has a sick mind and carries himself in a foolish manner to wish harm on others. There are even unbelievers who would not wish harm on others, but you seriously need help Adam7gur. Whether I see him as a prophet or you see him as God, that is definitely not what Jesus taught nor did he act and speak the way you have done. That is how satan would act.

Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice. Ephesians 4:31

Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge. James 4:11... *cough* Adam7gur

Adam7gur I believe you have become possessed and I think it is pitiful.. I seriously do. No one attacked you personally, you attacked yourself. I don't even know who you are and could care less who you are. I will defend my faith at any cost as well, but I wouldn't disrespect
Someone just because they think differentl from me... unless attempt to cause a dispute with me. So if you wish to brawl for the next 20, 30, or 40 years or even more then so be it, but you do not have the authority to tell me what and how I should think or believe. As my answer is my answer alone and it was not intentionally directed towards you, but if you wish it to be then so it as well.

And the answer is No, everyone on AMHD comes from numerous backgrounds with thoughts and beliefs freely to speak their own mind without being suppressed by people like you... as I can never be suppressed from you nor anyone else, as I love speaking my mind and my beliefs when questioned. You do not have to hear what I have to say so you are free to stick your fingers in your ears, kick your feet, and whine all you wish. This isn't Greece.

You should be ashamed of yourself of how you act and speak. If I knew who your minister was I would surely tell him of how "ungodly" you have been acting and he would chastise you quick. Why would you allow someone else's beliefs shake you? Get over yourself already and learn some self-discipline. As you surely need prayer, and I will pray for you, as I am not the That kind of person has a sick mind and carries himself in a foolish manner to wish harm on others. There are even unbelievers who would not wish harm on others, but you seriously need help Adam7gur. Whether I see him as a prophet or you see him as God, that is definitely not what Jesus taught nor did he act and speak the way you have done. That is how satan would act.

Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice. Ephesians 4:31

Speak not evil one of another, brethren. He that speaketh evil of his brother, and judgeth his brother, speaketh evil of the law, and judgeth the law: but if thou judge the law, thou art not a doer of the law, but a judge. James 4:11... *cough* Adam7gur

Adam7gur I believe you have become possessed and I think it is pitiful..I seriously do. No one attacked you personally, you attacked yourself. I don't even know who you are and could care less who you are. I will defend my faith at any cost as well, but I wouldnt disrespect
someone just because they think differentl from me.

Golden Girl,

OH NO! Not you. Let's RECAP shall we? I disagreed with you and stated you ERR and didn't understand scripture. You called me a bully, immature, suggested I didn't sound SOBER ( interesting too... I didn't know a person could slurr their keyboard, guess we learn something new everyday), also that I was a dictator, that I lacked vocabulary, sounded foolish, was judgemental... I think you get the idea.

And THAT was just the things you called ME! Never mind what you have said to Fred and Adam.

Yes Golden Girl, you have proved yourself to be the EPITOME of respectful. ( a hardy har har)

Well, since you are so fond of quoting the scriptures... I am going to paraphrase a verse in Mathew... I believe it is Mathew 7:5

First get the gigantic LOG out of your own eye before you try to remove the spec out of someone else's.


Special notice: any words in capital letters are for emphasis only! I am not shouting... but I am laughing...

Ms. T, I'm glad to see you here again. I had came across this statement that you had made


... anyone could post on the Christian board as long as they state they aren't Christian. I stand corrected... However, I was NOT trying to be unkind when I said it. I was trying to invite anyone to do so. It is a free country ( kind of anyway). I also said I personally welcomed anyone.
Oh yes you were, you are definitely an unkind person and very mean-spirited, you do not invite anything that differs from you. You said "I also said I personally welcomed anyone", so... why not follow your own words, as you have shown me opposite. It is a free country (hmmm.. did you read that Adam7gur? Free not fee.


far as I can tell there isn't anyone "afraid" of a different point of view over here either... so there.. bubba! Ha.


on the Christian boards... I personally enjoy everyone's input
oh the hypocrasy..


That hasn't been my experience at all... I have felt just the opposite. Oh well I still think anyone should be able to answer but I also think it is appropriate to let the OP know if your answer isn't really christian.. or biblical.

Oh, and...

... I think it is good to welcome EVERYONE thoughts as long as they let the OP know up front they are NOT Christians. Do you agree or disagree with that?

LOL... wow. Did you just say that?! Lol. Well, I must say you sure made me feel welcomed:rolleyes: Hey you said it, not me. As these are your own words. Well then, I see all is silent as you are now eating your own words. As I have made it known who and what I am, answered the question asked, and was barbarically attacked and passive-agressively attacked,. shall I continue as your hypocrisy is quite amusing. And it wasn't even I that had called you out the other times, as it was others. What makes your hypocritical statements so sad is that you said these things just a few days ago and yet say something completely different here! Why the hypocrisy? Well, Enjoy!

... so hypocritical. Need I say more as I see it is you who does not understand scripture.. . I know.. you are laughing at yourself. But not to worry as I am laughing with you.. and at you :D

Since you can not properly quote, understand, nor follow scriptures I will quote this for you, along with the link:

"This people honors Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me; in vain do they worship Me, teaching as doctrines the precepts of men.'" Matthew 15:1-9
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/why_are_christians_hypocrites.html

Golden Girl,

You are clearly out of line.

Everyone's opinions are welcomed. You left your opinion and then proceeded to post nasty remarks to my fellow Christians who believe that Jesus IS God. Your opinion on who you believe Jesus is... I WELCOME even if I disagree andi think you are dead wrong. But you refused to STOP there.

Golden Girl, once again you lack wisdom and understanding. This isn't about your faith being different from mine or ours... it is about your nasty remarks directed at OUR Bible and the Christian faith, and then eventually attacking US personally.

Here is a thought... instead of reading everything I posted in other THREADS.. try reading your own posts. You might actaully see what you have accused me of is nothing but PROJECTION.

You were barbarically attacked? By ME? Seriously woman, you need to get a Grip on reality! LOL

Out of line, because you now know what you did was wrong? No, unfortunately everyone's opinions are not welcomed. This was what I said when I answered:


That he was a great profit, teacher, and messenger. He was created by God and performed many miracles, but is not a god. The bible has endured great amounts of alterations, deletions, and additions... that is an important fact that should be carefully considered and not brushed aside.

Yet, when being told that I will be "forced", "me and my "army will ultimately lose the war" from their army.

from you "You do not understand the Bible.", "Although I believe it (Quran) to be utterly false and those that follow it completely deceived." You can believe and disbelieve whatever you wish as that is your business. But don't think that you can alter my beliefs as you do not know what I understand and that is not your place to know, and further your loud screaming and yelling will not solve anything, ta is not how you force people.

numerous times I was the only one that attempted to set aside differences and just agree to dissagree as I was not directly speaking to anyone other than the person who asked "Who is Jesus to you". For example:

"Well, to each his own"

"we are all still entitled to our own opinion, hence the question being asked was

"Who is Jesus to you?"

"...thanks for your opinion as you are entitled to it. But, that will not make me to "re-convert". The question being asked was "Who is Jesus to you?", I knew once I answered with my opinion all sorts of people were going to rush and try and attack me for my statement"

"The topic isn't about how to make people convert, so you must learn to respect my opinion and move on"

"I agree, as they are both scriptures"

"I did not look to see if you had even posted, so my answer was not directed to you personally. Stop taking everything so personal and attacking everyone's answer that seems to disagree with yours. Everyone's entitled to their own beliefs and opinion, as I am also entitled to mine. No reason to always attack. I just wanted to clear that with you."

Sooo, why are you still trying to speak to me and address your posts to me? Oh, it' because reality isn't your reality and that someone thinks different equals "attack and persecute" to you. Is this what you are attempting to say that is Christianity? Sorry but "err" does not refer to me but too you as you "lack basic knowledge".

Ms. T, if my answer to the question asked that was written several pages back makes you feel "bullied" or "threatened" then you should not tell others that


... anyone could post on the Christian board as long as they state they aren't Christian. I stand corrected... However, I was NOT trying to be unkind when I said it. I was trying to invite anyone to do so. It is a free country ( kind of anyway). I also said I personally welcomed anyone.
And
on the Christian boards... I personally enjoy everyone's input
Really? Also
... I think it is good to welcome EVERYONE thoughts as long as they let the OP know up front they are NOT Christians. Do you agree or disagree with that? well, that's not what you said to me... lol
Then
far as I can tell there isn't anyone "afraid" of a different point of view over here either... so there.. bubba! Ha. ha.. hmm
Are you sure you enjoy everyone's responses and feel afraid and threatened because of my "different view" as you recently stated?

That hasn't been my experience at all... I have felt just the opposite. Oh well I still think anyone should be able to answer but I also think it is appropriate to let the OP know if your answer isn't really christian.. or biblical. Hmmm.. well I have given many biblical scriptures and did not claim to be Christian and simply gave my personal view. Why do you speak with two tongues? I did not address you when I posted... matter of fact I did not address anyone when I gave my answered. It was actually the other way around.

You would not know the bible if it was laid in front of your eyes. Just because I am muslim means to you I know nothing about the bible? Lol... sorry Ms. T but I was raised in a strong Christian household, my mother is a Christian minister, my father is a devout Catholic, and many of my aunts and uncles are Chrisitian ministers and devout muslims. They are some of the few who are good examples of what Christians should be. I grew up reading and studying the bible, all of the bible is not false although greatly altered by many, to this day I read and study the quran, I read the bible, and the torah as those who follow God are known as "People of the Book". My family and friends do not try and attack me because I believe different and answer differently because their God and my God is the God of Abraham, of Moses, of Adam, our God is the same. They respect my opinion and agree to disagree with my opinion as I do not try and force my views on them BUT will defend what I believe when people who try and force me to thei beliefs and wish to attack. I don't who your god is but you are truly lacking.

On this thread And after numerous attempts to be "converted", I even politely asked to not be "re-converted" as I was only interested in answering the question.
After I cearly stated and made it known that that is my answer everyone has there answer and "to each his own", others still try to force me to their opinion and that I should have no opinion if it differ from theirs?

So, this was the others responses, including yours just because I had posted my view that you are unable to accept as MY view..not yours:

Being told that I will be "forced".

Me and my "army" "will lose the war"...did I say anything about army, wars, and battles? No.

trying to classify me as a scorpion because my opion differs from others: "for if a scorpion tries to walk on the head, the hand will throw him down and the foot will smash it."

violently threatening: "Be smashed golden girl" "be smashed!"
And this was a statement that you actually agreed with and yet claim that "you think it is good to welcome EVERYONE thoughts" and "welcome others" who have different of views other than yours as long as they state they are not Christian".. and honestly people don't have to first tell you what they are, they are all free to think as they wish even if it disturbs you.

Wow, what a welcome indeed! *cough* I smell story telling..
You could not even respond when I specifically had written biblical scriptures where Jesus was considered a prophet, instead you started screaming with your writing on how "out of line I was". You can think my religion is wrong as much as you like as I consider yours as wrong as well, but you don't see me trying to force you to mine and scream... oh what a great welcome *cough*. That has nothing to do with the question, in case you didn't read. So, if you want to brawl then we will be brawling for centuries if you so desire; but that will not change the differences of our views and opinions, so you will just have to accept my point of view as I accept yours and disagree. :)

All this for sharing my point of view... hmmm
And you call yourself Christian? I have the right to believe however I wish and you can't force me. Learn to respect yourself for a change as your breath been waisted the moment you opened your mouth to spaek to me as I never spoke to you, I responded to your ill-mannered comments.
----------------

And Adam7gur, learn to speak truth and realize you can never answer for me, only for yourself. I quoted your false words below:


Who is Jesus to you Golden girl? I'll tell you who He is!He is a total stranger to you!That's what you should have answeared to the OP's question and your statement would have been much more appriciated because it is the truth and there is nothing bad with the truth.But you pretend to know, therefore you know nothing!Even if you claim you know Him, He does not know you because you do not believe in Him!
Did I say he was a total stranger? No. That is not what I should have answered so you will have to appreciate it as it is. You state to me "there is nothing bad with the truth" and yet refuse to accept what the truth is to me. I see you know nothing. So, sorry Adam but "the truth hurts you", not me. That is all you were able to do was to define words but lack to understand and follow them. So, try and follow this:



And as for free speaking,free will,agree to dissagree and things like that I am telling you that these things belong to human political systems like democracy. When it comes to God, there is no democracy,there is only Theocracy.
False. As we are ALL free to disagree so get over it as you can not make me change my own opinion and I will not change yours, but I also have the right to defend my answer. I rather you not address me anylonger as you are starting to sound like a broken record.

"Who is Jesus to you?"

That he was a great profit, teacher, and messenger. He was created by God and performed many miracles, but is not a god. The bible has endured great amounts of alterations, deletions, and additions... that is an important fact that should be carefully considered and not brushed aside. The answer refers to me alone and to you. No dictatorship allowed. Everyone should feel welcomed to express their views of opinion especially when asked...and at least respect the differences in others

Out of line, because you now know what you did was wrong?

Ms. T, if my answer to the question asked that was written several pages back makes you feel "bullied" or "threatened" then you should not tell others that [/B]

No, you are out of line because your posts are insulting, rude and disrespectful. judgemental, and repetative. I neither feel bullied nor threatened by you. ( psst. You are pojecting again)

Let me make myself clear... I respect the fact that you choose NOT to be a Christian. And I can only speak for myself but I'm pretty darn sure I didn't try to convert you.

Live, laugh love Golden Girl! And post anything you like, but just know if you are going to INSULT the Bible in a Christian thread, or the Lord Jesus, or my fellow Christians, I will call you on it. ;)

Have a nice evening.

No, you are out of line because your posts are insulting, rude and disrespectful., judgemental, and repetative. I neither feel bullied nor threatened by you. ( psst. you are pojecting again)

Let me make myself clear.....I respect the fact that you choose NOT to be a Christian. And I can only speak for myself but I'm pretty darn sure I didn't try to convert you.

Live, laugh love Golden Girl! And post anything you like, but just know if you are going to INSULT the Bible in a Christian thread, or the Lord Jesus, or my fellow Christians, I will call you on it. ;)

Have a nice evening.

You were insulting and rude towards me as well as disrespectful, repetitive, judgemental, and loud with your words with me. As I was trying to only answer the question and move on to the next thread. You may feel that you were not, but you were. I am familiar with other Christians doing this, but why? That is insulting to say that I am welcomed and then turn around and make known that I am not welcomed. Me giving my opinion was my only intent, as it was mine alone. Did I tell anyone that they must convert? No, I did not. It was the other way around as it is written. I believe God has a different path for all of us. It is not where we are coming from but where we are going and that our path leads us to Him and to Him alone. So my beliefs are my own and I defend them as anyone else would defend their own. My original answer is now several pages behind, so I rather leave it that way and for the thread to not evolve around me. Move on. Do not insult me and I will not insult those who find me to be a target.

I know I have the tendency to lash back at those who lash at me first, but I am also very opininated which is both positive and negative. But understand just because my view differs from yours does not mean I am trying to attack you nor does it mean you must attack. What you directed to me personally was offensive to me as I did not expect to be judged for my opinion and forced to reconvert by others. My fellow Christian family members and friends do not lash out and insult me of my differences nor do we agree. But, they do choose to respect me and I respect them, we do not take offense because we view things in a different manner and respond differently. I do not threaten them with violence nor do I support violence, whether it is verbally, physically, etc. Nor make them feel unwelcomed. And in return I continue to respect them for that and not condone me. I am always loving life and living life and love to laugh, as we are not promised tomorrow.

I am half Ethiopian, and in Ethiopia where I lived it is almost equally divided with Christians and Muslims, even Jews... and yet they live in peace together for centuries even before these religions were accepted in the West. They do not agree on many subjects, but they do not belittle and insult the other. There is no reason too as we are all different and life is too short. And yet they live in peace. I believe the world has much to learn from them.. I'll give you a smilie :)

Golden girl
I see you use the exact words to prove me wrong that the Pharessees used against Jesus to prove Him wrong,because like you they also said that He was possesed and by the power of Satan He performed miracles.
I guess that after this you should no more wonder who my Minister is but in case you still do, I 'll tell you His name. His name is Jesus,the Almighty God!
Take it as you like but in the Christian world and not in yours,to be free means to give up your freedom and obey God.God is not democratic, He is a King, He does not ask of our opinion He does as He pleases.
Wherever Christians are,that place whatever it is , is Holy because the Holy Spirit dwells in us.This spiritual ground is Holy and you coming here the way you do is like a piece of wood coming close to fire.Once your spirit had the chanse to derive us and reign over us but no more.The Body is coming together,the Church is being completed,the Temple is being restored.With one hand we build and with the other one we fight.
The son of the slave will never make peace with the son of the free but even if you ask of peace you will not get it because the son of the slave will never inheritance with the son of the free.We have been given a sword and by that sword we believers in Jesus shall not sign a peace testament with the unbelievers but this sword is to fight against wicked spirits like the one you demonstrate.
No compromise Golden girl, if you are looking for Sauls you will not find one because here there are only Davids.So you coming here trying to moke God's army will not be allowed.Your opinions will be slaughtered like Goliath was.Who are you to moke the living God's army?Tonight Goliath will be surrendered to David again!

>Thread Closed<
Due to blatantly obvious reasons.
ANY continuation will NOT be tolerated and members may well be suspended.