Is it wrong to consult a psychic? What about looking up horoscopes?

To say, what is right or what is wrong can cause one to stumble; you must know the validity of your own conviction. According to Christianity, consultation with any medium equates to illegal tapping into the Power of God. Depending on your conviction of Faith, you may embrace the spiritual essence of guidance; however, if you are a Christian believer, you know that Jesus Christ is the Intercessor, The Holy Spirit, or Spirit of Truth is available to lead and guide you into ALL Truths. However, you must adhere unto Joshua 1:8, as well as Proverbs 3:5-6, in order to do either, you must have a sensitivity to the leading of the Holy Spirit, without such, it is impossible for you to have an ear to hear, and possess a knowing of the direction you are being led. This requires a steadfast commitment on your part, consistency is key. More direct... All power belongs to God; nothing exist outside of God; however, if one access His Divine Power without coming through the Door, than such is a thief or a robber. Besides, why gamble with familiar spirits, when one can obtain Truth which dispels darkness.

Why go to psychics? Jesus said: "When He (The Holy Spirit) is come, He will lead and guide you into all truth."

The Holy Spirit will reveal whatever it is you are seeking from psychics, so why indulge in mysticism? Through prayer The Holy Spirit will guide you: "Ask and ye shall receive; Seek and ye shall find; Knock and it shall be opened unto you:" A-S-K!

WHATEVER YOU ARE SEEKING, GOD (THROUGH HIS HOLY SPIRIT) WILL REVEAL UNTO YOU. The Mind of God is the greatest source of Wisdom and direction. "Omniscient" -- "All-Knowing" -- so why go to a psychic. Also, God's Word (The Bible) will lead you into truth! Pray, read the Bible, and ask The Holy Spirit to help you in whatever you are seeking!

Psychics will tell you what you want to hear -- for a fee. The Holy Spirit will reveal TRUTH -- AND TRUTH ONLY!

Be blessed,
Bobbye

Is it wrong to go to psychics?[B]

Perhaps not wrong,' unless you equate Saul's visiti to the Witch of Endor as a visit to a psychic. That visit falls under severe proscription.

My personal view is that psychics are not able to tap into God's power, legally or illegally, but I am also extremely sceptical and not a little suspicious about their claims.

They universally suffer from a fatal disease known as vagueitis, and unless you rise to their vagueness and start to provide hints and information, they will flounder and have to repay the silver with which you have crossed their palms.

The same is true of spiritualistic mediums. If my father's ghost were to appear, he would know his name, his father's name, and which leg was shot off in the Revolutionary War!

Asking, [I]"Does the letter "M" mean anything to any one?" is the sure mark of a crook.

If you have concerns about your present or your future, or is he the man you should marry, etc. then you should look into your own heart for the answer, check your experience, talk to your mother, your father, your pastor, your librarian, but for goodness sake do not believe that those who claim to be psychics have any ability beyond any other being.

The major qualification to be a psychic is the be a muscle reader, and a good guesser, be as vague as possible, pour on the schmaltz when the subject smiles, and for heavens' sake, don't say anything definite, only give the vaguest hints that could be interpreted in a hundred ways.

Horoscopes ask you to believe that the billions of people in the world are only on one of twelve paths. Think about it.

You have had some good advice above from Bobbye. He speaks good sense.

I wish you well and ask God's blessing on you.


MORGANITE


:)

Soothsayer, witchcraft, divination, god warns us in no uncertain term to stay away from such people like the plague.
Why you might ask? Because god does not want you to put your faith in anything besides him. :eek: :p :p

SOOTHSAYER, WITCHCRAFT, DIVINATION, GOD WARNS US IN NO UNCERTAIN TERM TO STAY AWAY FROM SUCH PEOPLE LIKE THE PLAGUE.
WHY YOU MIGHT ASK? BECAUSE GOD DOES NOT WANT YOU TO PUT YOUR FAITH IN ANYTHING BESIDES HIM. :eek: :p :p


That is what I said.

:confused:

Is In No Uncertain Terms A Texas Lady! Well, Now That You've Been Introduced Learn From Each Other. ;)

Is In No Uncertain Terms A Texas Lady!! Well, Now That You've Been Introduced Learn From Each Other. ;)


If the above message is directed to me, it doesn't make any sense. Would you rephrase it, please?

This is where I said what you repeaded:

Perhaps not wrong,' unless you equate Saul's visit to the Witch of Endor as a visit to a psychic. That visit falls under severe proscription.




:confused:

I Didn't Think I Could Make It Any Simpler, Bobbye Is A Lady From Texas, Now Learn From Each Other.

Most unhelpful. Adding a wry comment is not helpful.

Is it wrong to consult a psychic? What about looking up horoscopes?
Here are some scriptures to consider:


" 'Do not turn to mediums or seek out spiritists ("familiar spirits" NKJV), for you will be defiled by them. I am the LORD your God. -- Leviticus 19:31 (NIV)


Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in [a] the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD, and because of these detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you. -- Deuteronomy 18:10-12 (NIV)


He sacrificed his own son in [a] the fire, practiced sorcery ("soothsaying" NKJV) and divination, and consulted mediums and spiritists. He did much evil in the eyes of the LORD, provoking him to anger. -- 2 Kings 21:6 (NIV)


Once when we were going to the place of prayer, we were met by a slave girl who had a spirit by which she predicted the future ("possessed with a spirit of divination" NKJV). She earned a great deal of money for her owners by fortune-telling. This girl followed Paul and the rest of us, shouting, "These men are servants of the Most High God, who are telling you the way to be saved." She kept this up for many days. Finally Paul became so troubled that he turned around and said to the spirit, "In the name of Jesus Christ I command you to come out of her!" At that moment the spirit left her. -- Acts 16:16-18 (NIV)


The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft ("sorcery" NKJV); hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. -- Galations 5:19-21 (NIV)


"Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts ("sorcerers" NKJV), the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. -- Revelation 22:14-15 (NIV)
I think the Bible's viewpoint is clear. The account in Acts shows that divination is linked to demon possession. Serious stuff.

Stay clear of spiritism or divination in any form.

Chris

I Try To Respond In A Few Sentences Or So, But You Really Hit The Nail On The Head. Thanks For Looking Up The Scriptures For Everyone.

I find it curious that someone who believes God to be almighty should also believe him vulnerable to having his power illegally tapped into. How is one concept reconciled with the other pray tell?


Is it wrong to consult a psychic? What about looking up horoscopes?

The Bible is clear on the subject. But God doesn't just prohibit for prohibition's sake. The reason for this particular prohibition is because God knows that rebel angels will use such means to mislead people away his guidance. They do this not because the feel they will ultimately win the conflict with God, but because since they are to be destroyed, they want to take as many humans as they can with them.

BTW
Hitler had a similar mentality at the end of his life when he ordered the destruction of the German nation because he was about to perish.

Angeleyes,
God Put A Warning To Us About Such Characters And To Avoid Them. The Reason Being Is This. Who Do You Put Your Trust [faith] In, God Or Some Man/woman Who Is Just As Fallible As Anyone Else? When You Are Committed To God He Will See You Through Anything. Another Aspect Is Demonic Spirits Can Talk To You Through These People And They Have All The Facts Because The Spirits Have Been Here Since The Beginning.

Is it wrong to consult a psychic? What about looking up horoscopes?

It depends who or what you are. Christians need no such things because they are promised the Holly Spirit as their Spirit Guide through life.

Most psychics are frauds, and all horoscopes are fiction.



M:)RGANITE

Angeleyes,
God Put A Warning To Us About Such Characters And To Avoid Them. The Reason Being Is This. Who Do You Put Your Trust [faith] In, God Or Some Man/woman Who Is Just As Fallible As Anyone Else? When You Are Committed To God He Will See You Thru Anything. Another Aspect Is Demonic Spirits Can Talk To You Thru These People And They Have All The Facts Because The Spirits Have Been Here Since The Begining.

I agree with you 100%. It's truly a pity that so many are duped into trusting such sources and remain unaware of who really is behind them.

Here is an example that came to my mind that you are probably familiar with. It describes a demonic spirit communicating via a dream and speaking badly of both Job and God. Of course the spirit mixes in some occasional good comment in order to gain some credibility. But its comments with their murderous intentions predominate. The man that received the message was Eliphaz, one of three who visited Job while Job was suffering.

Comments in brackets are mine.


Job 4:

1Then Eliphaz the Temanite answered and said,
7Remember, I pray thee, who ever perished, being innocent? Or where were the righteous cut off?
8Even as I have seen, they that plow iniquity, and sow wickedness, reap the same.
9By the blast of God they perish, and by the breath of his nostrils are they consumed.

[ So Eliphaz begins by accusing Job as being wicked as his suffering proves. In other words God is the source of all calamities befalling man and Job is suffering at the hands of God because Job is wicked. Next Eliphaz reveals the sinister source of his ideas.]

12Now a thing was secretly brought to me, and mine ear received a little thereof.
13In thoughts from the visions of the night, when deep sleep falleth on men,
14Fear came upon me, and trembling, which made all my bones to shake.
15Then a spirit passed before my face; the hair of my flesh stood up:
16It stood still, but I could not discern the form thereof: an image was before mine eyes, there was silence, and I heard a voice, saying,

[Next Job is accused of claiming superiority to God. Then it accuses God of having no trust in his servants both angels and humans, regardless of how faithful they might seem. Also that God considers humans as moths and theiur suffering os no concern to him. Of course this is a complete contradiction of what God said about Job, that he was a good man who would remain faithful under any circumstances.

Job 1:8
And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?


It also contradicts of all the promises God has made concerning the rewarding of his servants and the restoration of all things to their former pristine condition as the following scripture points out.

Revelation 21:4
And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.]

17Shall mortal man be more just than God? Shall a man be more pure than his maker?
18Behold, he put no trust in his servants; and his angels he charged with folly:
19How much less in them that dwell in houses of clay, whose foundation is in the dust, which are crushed before the moth?
20They are destroyed from morning to evening: they perish for ever without any regarding it.

[The purpose of all this, of course, was to frustrate Job into cursing God to his face as Satan had claimed he would. This purpose remains the same today and all those who seek communication via mediums expose themselves to this type of demonic propaganda.
Also today, as in Eliphaz's case, the evil spirits will slip in some truth along with the lies in order to appear trustworthy. Also note that when faithful angels are used to communicate the hair of the person doesn't stand on edge- which indicates an evil source]

All scriptures are from the KJV

Hmmm... Im skeptical... whose to say that it isn't the HOLY SPIRIT speaking through these mediums?

What is that passage in the Bible where it talks about the different gifts that are given to man (prophesy, missionary, etc)?

Cute story here. First of all I am a Christian, but this story goes back more than 20 years ago. I went to a "psychic" who was what he called a "writer". I did not say anything and he got out a piece of paper and wrote things down then translated to me.

Basically I remember him telling me that I would go on a long trip with a blond man who had blue eyes and was younger than me nad that I would be happy with this man. At that time the only blone haired blue eyed persone I knew was my brother.

About 7 years later I moved from the midwest to Alaska with a blond man who was a year younger than me. I finally met this man in a state other than the one I was living in at the time and we went on a "long journey" and went to Alaska and we have been married for 10 years.

I do not believe in psychics, because if they were true psychics they would not have to advertise because they "know" we are going to visit them. But this man was amazing. I never spoke a word in his presence and the things he told me came true. I did not believe him for almost 20 years now, but if I look at the writings it all came true.

Hmmm... Im skeptical... whose to say that it isnt the HOLY SPIRIT speaking thru these mediums??

What is that passage in the Bible where it talks about the different gifts that are given to man (prophesy, missionary, etc)??


The scripture mentioning the gifts does not apply to spirit mediums because such a practice is condemned. The gifts were only given those who were respectful of the inspired scriptures.

“Do not turn to mediums or seek out spiritists, for you will be defiled by them” (Leviticus 19.31) and “Let no one be found among you …who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. Anyone who does these things is detestable to the Lord” (Deuteronomy 18:10-12

Why would we expect the God of the NT to suddenly approve of spirit mediums? The God of the OT is the same God of the NT. If he weren't, then we would rely only on the NT writings and reject the OT writings. But Christians officially recognize both NT and OT as being equally inspired.

Cute story here. first of all I am a Christian, but this story goes back more than 20 years ago. I went to a "psychic" who was what he called a "writer". I did not say anything and he got out a piece of paper and wrote things down then translated to me.

Basically I remember him telling me that I would go on a long trip with a blond man who had blue eyes and was younger than me nad that I would be happy with this man. At that time the only blone haired blue eyed persone I knew was my brother.

About 7 years later I moved from the midwest to alaska with a blond man who was a year younger than me. I finally met this man in a state other than the one I was living in at the time and we went on a "long journey" and went to alaska and we have been married for 10 years.

I do not believe in psychics, because if they were true psychics they would not have to advertise because they "know" we are going to visit them. But this man was amazing. I never spoke a word in his presence and the things he told me came true. I did not believe him for almost 20 years now, but if I look at the writings it all came true.



My mother also had an experience with mediums that greatly impressed her. In our neighborhood in Newark NJ there were some gypsies who charged for spiritistic services among which was healing. Since my mother was feeling ill and had been told by friends that it might be due to evil spirits, she went for a consultation. A Gypsy woman affirmed her suspicions and told her to close her eyes as she would extract something from the stomach. Well, my mother kept her eyes a bit open and saw clearly as the medium reached into her pocket and produced a ball of hair which she claimed to have extracted from my mom's stomach. Feeling she was being hoodwinked, my mother protested and attempted to leave without paying. As she did so, several of the gypsies who had been watching seemingly unconcerned came to their feet and the medium began demanding her fee of fifteen dollars. Those are fifteen 1960 dollars so the amount isn't as little as one would suppose. Needless to say, fear made my mother immediately whip out the required fee. However, that wasn't enough. As she headed for the exit her way was blocked and she wasn't allowed to leave until she kissed the money for good luck.

Starman,
If You Remember Correctly The Deal About Job Was A Wager Between God And Satan. God Knew Job's Heart, Satan Did Not!

Starman,
If You Remember Correctly The Deal About Job Was A Wager Between God And Satan. God Knew Job's Heart, Satan Did Not!!

Please reread my post. I believe you misunderstood its meaning.

That Is Quite Possible As My Eyes Are Not As Good As When I Was In My 20's.

The scripture mentioning the gifts does not apply to spirit mediums because such a practice is condemned. The gifts were only given those who were respectful of the inspired scriptures.

“Do not turn to mediums or seek out spiritists, for you will be defiled by them” (Leviticus 19.31) and “Let no one be found among you …who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. Anyone who does these things is detestable to the Lord” (Deuteronomy 18:10-12

Why would we expect the God of the NT to suddenly approve of spirit mediums? The God of the OT is the same God of the NT. If he weren't, then we would rely only on the NT writings and reject the OT writings. But Christians officially recognize both NT and OT as being equally inspired.

What about eating pork or shellfish? That was condemned by the God of the OT but excused in the NT.

As for the gifts... how does one differentiate between a prophet and a psychic?

I too don't know about the pork and shellfish so if someone cares to clarify it I'd be glad to know too.

Since there were no changes mentioned about mediums from O.T. through the N.T. God's word is clear regarding them and also the ones who seek them out.

A prophet is one who receives the gift of prophecy through the Holy Spirit. The gift of prophesy is one to be most desired.

A psychic is a medium. A spirit of Witchcraft. Big difference-- Holy Spirit -- and-- spirit of witchcraft !

Witchcraft is a counterfeit spirit whose authority is to dominate, manipulate, and control others. Their entry points are through the occult ie: horoscope, palm readers, communication with the dead, presence of departed loved ones, esp, drugs, telepathy, resisting authority.


A question lingers for me. Are detectives and those consulting a psychic reeping hot coals on their heads, or are they excused for justice's sake, as the executioner is?

Please keep in mind that the law has distinct categories, dietary, ceremonial and the moral. The ceremonial and dietary are ritualistic in nature and involve not eating certain foods such as fish without scales, the procedure called circumcision, sacrifices, yearly celebrations such as the Passover, and other ritualistic behavior. Such requirements functioned to keep Israel separate from the nations as well.

In contrast, the moral law involves prohibitions against such things as adultery, incest, theft, and murder, idolatry -things which are essential to righteousness and which prevent the harming of one person by another.

BTW

Though not under law, Christians are to avoid magic practices:

Acts 19:19 (New King James Version)
19 Also, many of those who had practiced magic brought their books together and burned them in the sight of all. And they counted up the value of them, and it totaled fifty thousand pieces of silver


Revelation 22:
14 Blessed are those who do His commandments,[g] that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But[h] outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie.



A question lingers for me. Are detectives and those consulting a psychic reeping hot coals on their heads, or are they excused for justice's sake, as the executioner is?


Their motives might be laudable but the method is condemned.
God judges each individual case based on facts he alone can know.
Is the detective scripturally cognizant of what he is doing? Or is he under the belief that his behavior is OK for Christians? Does he believe, for example that psychics are merely persons with powerful minds or else blessed by GOd in some way.


Things such as those.

I agree

Is it wrong to consult a psychic? What about looking up horoscopes?

It is against the catholic christian religion. Im catholic and I personally don't see anything wrong in reading horoscopes.
Re: consulting a phsychic... I'm not to sure, I personally again wouldn't consult one though I must admit it does intreeg me.. But on the other hand I'm scared because I sometimes believe they must see a future and to be honest I don't believe knowing your future in the present is right.. Live in the present not past or future eh?


What about eating pork or shellfish? That was condemned by the God of the OT but excused in the NT.

As for the gifts... how does one differentiate between a prophet and a psychic??

Why was eating pork and selfish condemned?

As For Eating Pork Or Shellfish, Back In Ot Times There Was No Refrigeration Which Is What Is Necessary To Keep These From Spoiling Before You Get Them Back To Shore. Salt Will However Preserve P[ork For A While. Remember Also That Ot Times Was Strictly By The "law." Nt Times Are Governed By Grace. That Is The Big Difference. Hope This Helps...

Sorry, I Missed The Other !/2. There Is One "holy Spirit" , Yet There Are Many Demonic Spirits. The Holy Spirit Directed The Prophets But Any Demonic Spirit Can Speak Through A Psychic. I Mean, It's Not Like They Don't Know Everything That Has Been Going On Since The Beginning. So, A Demonic Spirit To Answer Your Question Correctly Is No Great Feat For Them. But You Would Be The Gullible One To Listen To It Over The Voice Of God... in My Humble Opinion As I Am A Christian.

Ok, well here's the thing...

Lets not call them "psychics" or "mediums" because everyone seems to identify that with witchcraft or the devil or evil or whatever.

I know a few people who, for lack of a better term, consider themselves "mediums." However, they claim to be speaking with God or God is speaking through them... even as far as saying it is the Holy Spirit. Now, their idea of the Holy Spirit and God maybe a little different than the textbook idea that many here have but it is no less the same God that you speak of.

Could these people be people be prophets?

In fact, where ARE all the prophets? How can anyone claim to be a prophet without being tagged as blasphemous? Or Satanic? A wolf in sheeps clothing?

And here's something to think about regarding horoscopes...

Your horoscope is simply a chart of where the planets and stars were positioned when you were born. Those who study this typically believe that each planet, each "sign," and the corrolation between them all give way for certain energies that influence ones life. Just as someone's life can be explained by how the "heavens" were aligned at the time of birth, one can also use the allignment of the "heavens" to determine where a specific life will be born.

How did the 3 wise men know where Jesus Christ will be born? By following the allingment of the Star. Because only when the "heavens" where aligned just right, on a very specific location on the Earth, could the Son of the Heavenly Father be born.

How do Buddhists find the new incarnation of the Dalai Lama? By finding the allignment of the Heavens that would allow his soul to be reborn unto Earth.

What about eating pork or shellfish? That was condemned by the God of the OT but excused in the NT.


The herem against unclean animals was applicable to the bnei-yisrael, not to gentiles.




M;)RGANITE

Ok, well heres the thing....

Lets not call them "psychics" or "mediums" because everyone seems to identify that with witchcraft or the devil or evil or whatever.

I know a few people who, for lack of a better term, consider themselves "mediums." However, they claim to be speaking with God or God is speaking thru them... even as far as saying it is the Holy Spirit. Now, their idea of the Holy Spirit and God maybe a little different than the textbook idea that many here have but it is no less the same God that you speak of.

Could these people be people be prophets?

In fact, where ARE all the prophets?? How can anyone claim to be a prophet without being tagged as blasphemous? Or Satanic? A wolf in sheeps clothing??

And heres something to think about regarding horoscopes....

Your horoscope is simply a chart of where the planets and stars were positioned when you were born. Those who study this typically believe that each planet, each "sign," and the corrolation between them all give way for certain energies that influence ones life. Just as someones life can be explained by how the "heavens" were aligned at the time of birth, one can also use the allignment of the "heavens" to determine where a specific life will be born.

How did the 3 wise men know where Jesus Christ will be born? By following the allingment of the Star. Because only when the "heavens" where alligned just right, on a very specific location on the Earth, could the Son of the Heavenly Father be born.

How do Buddhists find the new incarnation of the Dalai Lama? By finding the allignment of the Heavens that would allow his soul to be reborn unto Earth.


First let me say that these people or prophets you know would not have to question what to call themselves if they were speaking God's word. They would have found a Religious avenue by now through a Church, if they where for God's glory. They wouldn't be taking money from people like some sideshow carnival act.

While a person can look at the positive presumptions of their horoscope, it shouldn't be taken above the promises that are found in the Lord.
You can't worship both. It's one or the other.

The Three Wise Men knew of the birth of Jesus because of the star in the east. It was what the prophet Micah had written.(Micah 5:2)

I don't see any relevance with the Buddhism thing. Buddhism can be a well rounded philosophy/ psychology. However, beyond that, as a Religion it holds little hope. Can Buddha do all you say? The Dahli Lama? You say he has the power to find the alignment of the heavens which allows him to be reborn on earth? Maybe in his consciousness. I'd even say someone's relying on their own imagination too much. And Buddha... nothing but a mute idol!
That's imo. However the psychology part of Buddhism I agree with. It makes gratitude, generosity, and awareness of service desirable as principles in our lives. And I don't think Buddha can save you from hell either.

A different viewpoint:

Some view the star of Bethlehem as being from an evil source because it first led the astrologers to Herod who had murderous intentions. Then under Herod's instructions seek the newborn messiah in order to murder him, the star led them to where Jesus was. Only angelic intervention prevented Jesus' location from being revealed to Herod. So the star is seen by some Christians as being a manifestation of a sinister power intent on killing he who would bruise the serpent's head. Genesis 3:15

Some persons have come under demonic harassment after going to psychics.

Hold on now, you are taking a lot of this out of centext... ;)


First let me say that these people or prophets you know would not have to question what to call themselves if they were speaking God's word. They would have found a Religious avenue by now through a Church, if they where for God's glory. They wouldn't be taking money from people like some sideshow carnival act.

They don't sit in a little tent with a crystal ball and a big towel on their head! Lol This is just something they do... or in their words, who they are. It's a way of Life for them. They will help people in need if/when they can but its not just carnaval sideshow.


While a person can look at the positive presumptions of their horoscope, it shouldn't be taken above the promises that are found in the Lord.
You can't worship both. It's one or the other.


I totally agree... but people who really know what a horoscope is and what its for know that it isn't something to be worshiped... its not a form of a God or anything like that. Its like this:

A school of thought says that we choose our own Life Path before we are ever born into this world. We know who we are and what influences we need in our Life in order to be "saved," or transcend to Heaven. Once we have found the (next) Life we wish to live, we need the energetic allignment by which to be "reborn."

A horoscope simply tells you what that allignment is. It is not there to tell you your future... it is there to tell you that based on how you came into this world, you will have certain influences in your life.

Keep in mind that many believe that a truly enlightened man will reflect nothing of his horoscope... this is because he has overcome the influences that were placed upo him in this Life and overcome them... and is now creating his own destiny.



I don't see any relevance with the Buddhism thing. Buddhism can be a well rounded philosophy/ psychology. However, beyond that, as a Religion it holds little hope. Can Buddha do all you say? The Dahli Lama? You say he has the power to find the alignment of the heavens which allows him to be reborn on earth? Maybe in his consciousness. I'd even say someone's relying on their own imagination too much. And Buddha...... nothing but a mute idol!
That's imo. However the psychology part of Buddhism I agree with. It makes gratitude, generosity, and awareness of service desirable as principles in our lives. And I don't think Buddha can save you from hell either.

"Buddhists believe that the Dalai Lamas are the manifestations of the Buddha of Compassion who chose to take rebirth for the purpose of serving other human beings.

As on former occasions, there would be indications of the directions in which the search should be made, and that the child would be found to possess physical and mental attributes similar to those of his predecessor."

The direction in which to search for each new incarnation of the Dalai Lama is determined by the energetic map (horoscope) in which to be reborn to this Earth.

(I know this is all sounding hokee to you but this is just to explain what horoscopes are really about)

So my point was that, just as the monks seek out a certain astral map to find each new incarnation of the Buddha, Siddharta Gautama... the wise men were able to seek out the birth place of the Lord, Jesus Christ.

Your friends could be prophets. But, I don't understand why you would call them mediums or psychics in the previous post?

I didn't look at astrology like that. So I guess I psyched myself into believing the positive traits that are accentuated for each planet influencing your chart, along with your sun sign, your moon sign , and rising sign.
All can be useful navigate this life successfully. Useful traits. Something that is more "custom made" for the person. I think it really it shouldn't be compared to anothers chart because that is where it starts to take on a more "occult" worshiping state. If you keep it personal it is better. You'd be able to use your traits artistically instead of competitively.

I don't agree with the "school of thought" you mentioned. We didn't choose our life paths before we were born. God did. And being reborn is not something to ATTAIN. But as a gift from Jesus. The peace is given through the Holy Spirit. Do Buddhists believe in the God in the Bible? I don't think so. It's a mystical religion.
So I see in your last paragraph a philosophical conclusion.
So I guess your on the right team.

If You Read Your Bible God Warns Us About Such Characters. The Point Being, Who Is Your Faith In, God Or Some Mumbo-jumbo Man?

The latter is a form of idolatry. Another sin.

Are we in danger of confusing psychics with spiritist mediums? What does the Bible say about people with special understanding of things spiritual but who do not invoke the spirits of the dead?




M:oRGANITE

Some of these characters don't invoke the dead, they invoke evil spirits directly in full knowledge that they are demons and practice magic which brings them under under evil spirit influence. So mediumship isn't a dead person living person intermediary thing. It's a live person demon intermediary thing as well. Actually, all mediumship is relates to evil spirits regardless of how cunningly the dead might be mimicked.

Morganite,
I Don't Know Where You Draw The Line Between The Two. It Seeeems We're Using Two Words To Describe The Same Action. There Is A Town Near Where I Live Called Cassadaga, Fl.
The Entire Town Is Nothing But Mediums Ans So Called Spiritualists. The Heart Breaking Fact Is, This Town Will Not Allow A Christian Or Any Other Church To Be In Their City Limits. So, It It All Innocent Or Are Dark Forces At Work Here? Just An Observation.

Morganite,
I Don't Know Where You Draw The Line Between The Two. It Seeeems We're Using Two Words To Describe The Same Action. There Is A Town Near Where I Live Called Cassadaga, Fl.
The Entire Town Is Nothing But Mediums Ans So Called Spiritualists. The Heart Breaking Fact Is, This Town Will Not Allow A Christian Or Any Other Church To Be In Their City Limits. So, It It All Innocent Or Are Dark Forces At Work Here? Just An Observation.


Psychics and mediums. True, there might be an overlap and they are not mutually exclusive terms. The activity you mention seems to indicate that there is a sinister force behind this type of activity since it seems to be aimed at people who are pro Jesus. That's not to say that there might not be some type of convoluted reasoning in which the mediums claim to be pro Jesus. Simply that the official policy you mention appears to be anti Jesus and because of it one is forced to view it as sinister.


BTW
About mediums in the town, how are they legally getting away with this?
Of course I wouldn't want to live there even if the rent was free.

So what really separates one who does it in the Name of the Holy Spirit from one who does not? How are we to know?

We hear of psychics all the time... but when is the last time ANYONE has neard of a prophet? Could it be that we are so quick to call modern day prophets psychics, mediums, occultist, etc that we shun them before ever knowing if they are truly working for the Lord?

I know I'M not in danger of confusing a prophet of the Lord with a psychic.

My former pastor had the gift of prophecy. Here's a way you might tell:

1 JOHN 4:1-3:
Test the Spirits. Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God.

So when Sylvia Brown comes on, does she ever say Jesus' is speaking through her? No, because she can't. Her practices & predictions are contrary to the Bible. She could lie but God doesn't put up with that. There are examples of God's retribution on these folks who try to call on God with idols in their hearts, they don't last long. Who would go against God's word? No, they are prophesing out of their own spirit & not the Holy Spirit. They are false.

So what really seperates one who does it in the Name of the Holy Spirit from one who does not? How are we to know??

We hear of psychics all the time... but when is the last time ANYONE has neard of a prophet?? Could it be that we are so quick to call modern day prophets psychics, mediums, occultist, etc that we shun them before ever knowing if they are truly working for the Lord??

As Christians we are guided by the scriptures and they tell us that the gifts of the spirit as manifested during the infancy of the church during the first century would cease. In fact there is evidence that the gifts ceased during Paul's lifetime since he began leaving people unhealed.

The gifts were provided because the church was in its infancy was in its and needed spectacular displays of power in order to convince people that this was indeed God's new way or new covenant. Once that was firmly
Established, the gifts would cease.

So in view of this, and to answer your question, all a Christian really needs to know is that someone is claiming to have supernatural powers from God
In order to conclude that the person thgough well-meaning, perhaps, is being misled. Of course the scriptures tell us that even though the gifts would cease we could still request things of God in prayer. So in view of the dangers involved that is the safest route to take.

The Gifts of the Holy Spirit (http://www.bibletruths.net/Archives/BTAR171.htm)

BTW

The use of Jesus' name doesn't guarantee that those doing powerful works derive their powers from God. Jesus warned us of this not in some difficult to understand parable but in simple clear language.


So what really seperates one who does it in the Name of the Holy Spirit from one who does not? How are we to know??

We hear of psychics all the time... but when is the last time ANYONE has neard of a prophet?? Could it be that we are so quick to call modern day prophets psychics, mediums, occultist, etc that we shun them before ever knowing if they are truly working for the Lord??

As Christians we are guided by the scriptures and they tell us that the gifts of the spirit as manifested during the infancy of the church during the first century would cease. In fact there is evidence that the gifts ceased during Paul's lifetime since he began leaving people unhealed. The gifts were provided because the church was in its infancy and needed spectacular displays of power in order to convince people that this was indeed God's new way or new covenant. Once that was firmly established, the gifts would cease.

So in view of this, and to answer your question, all a Christian really needs to know is that someone is claiming to have supernatural powers from God in order to conclude that the person thgough well-meaning, perhaps, is being misled. Of course the scriptures tell us that even though the gifts would cease we could still request things of God in prayer. So in view of the dangers involved that is the safest route to take.

The Gifts of the Holy Spirit (http://www.bibletruths.net/Archives/BTAR171.htm)


BTW
Jesus told us that there would be those misusing his name and performing powerful works while doing so but who would not be his followers but his enemies. Also, not every Christian had the gifts. The gifts seem to have been limited to the Apostles and to those upon which they laid their hands upon to convey them.
Welcome To The Washington Street Church of Christ - Warrensburg, MO 64093 - (660)429-6608 (http://av.rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A9ibyKS2OWlEWA0B6wFrCqMX;_ylu=X3oDMTBvdmM3bGl xBHBndANhdl93ZWJfcmVzdWx0BHNlYwNzcg--/SIG=1282g0ouk/EXP=1147833142/**http%3a//churches.net/churches/wscoc/holy_spirit2.html)

Mr. Starman,
God Gave Jesus Believers A Power Of Discernment As To What Spirit Is The Holy Spirit And What Spirits Are Evil. In Your Heart You Will Know Who Is A B.s. Artist, And When The Holy Spirit Is Moving On Your Behalf. Hope This Helps.

Mr. Starman,
God Gave Jesus Believers A Power Of Discernment As To What Spirit Is The Holy Spirit And What Spirits Are Evil. In Your Heart You Will Know Who Is A B.s. Artist, And When The Holy Spirit Is Moving On Your Behalf. Hope This Helps.


Well, Stony, I guess we simply disagree in this area. There is nothing magical or mysterious about discernment. Discernment is a deep understanding based on knowledge of the scriptures attained with the aid of God's holy spirit. The reason why such discernment must be solidly based on knowledge garnered from study of the scriptures is to prevent us from letting our own ideas mislead us. If we do, then we might be victimized by anyone who chooses to utter Jesus' name for the sake of profit. Such men as: Jimmy Swaggart, Jim Bakker, Oral Roberts, Peter Popoff, Robert Tilton, Benny Hinn, Pat Robertson, and Jim Whittington, obviously took advantage of the scriptural misunderstanding of the flock they were supposed to guide but instead fleeced. Undoubtedly, the flock felt secure in its discernment until it was too late. Of course the magical type of discernment you speak of would have never allowed this. Yet, there it is.

Christian televangelist scandals - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_televangelist_scandals)

Philippians 1:9
And this I pray, that your love may abound yet more and more in knowledge and all discernment;

bTW
Christians automatically discern those who dabble in the occult as sinning because the scriptures tell us to discern such activity that way.

Morganite,
I Don't Know Where You Draw The Line Between The Two. It Seeeems We're Using Two Words To Describe The Same Action. There Is A Town Near Where I Live Called Cassadaga, Fl.
The Entire Town Is Nothing But Mediums Ans So Called Spiritualists. The Heart Breaking Fact Is, This Town Will Not Allow A Christian Or Any Other Church To Be In Their City Limits. So, It It All Innocent Or Are Dark Forces At Work Here? Just An Observation.


Just for the record, Spiritualism is another religion with its orgins in Christianity.

Spiritualism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spiritualist)

Cassadaga is a town that has attracted ones of the same faith, much like a "Christian" town might also do.

Cassadaga Spiritualist Camp' (http://www.cassadaga.org/)

I have visited it within the last three years and found it to be a mildly interesting place, with nothing dark about it, other than what might occur in any town. PS, I went with my Christian friend and he was fine too. ;)

bTW
Christians automatically discern those who dabble in the occult as sinning because the scriptures tell us to discern such activity that way.

Again, the problem comes from what you may believe is an occult and what you may not.

I do not claim any Religion although, I associate more with Christianity. I am Saved... I believe that Jesus Christ is my Saviour. However, I believe that there is a lot more to this Life than the majority of Christians do. I believe Jesus portrays Himself in more ways than most Christians believe. I believe that Jesus is no different than we are, just as He said. I believe that there is much to learn in this world and there are many ways to learn it... the secret is learning it or practicing it with the right mind... for the right reasons.

Things that you may see as occult, I may see as opportunity. You may claim it to be evil, I may claim it to be Holy.

Valinors sorrow -

You are not talking about true Christianity. And it looks like it might have been something that evolved from the Quakers in the U.S.

Spiritualists "depend on the spirits" they come in communicado with! :p Here's your Spiritual Discernment for you... Spiritualists & Christian Scientists are straight from the pits of Hell. Yeah, evil spirit... eat my dust!

31pumpkin disagrees: No. I don't think that's a good excuse for sinning. Gotcha!


Exactly what part of that post do you consider Sin?

"Things you may say are occult. I may see as opportunity. you may claim it to be evil . I may claim it to be Holy."

Jesus said if you loved me you'd obey me. THAT PART. :(

Pumpkin: "You are not talking about true Christianity. And it looks like it might have been something that evolved from the Quakers in the U.S."
Val: I respectfully disagree with you Pumpkin. I have several friends who are Quaker and one who is Mennonite. Quakers are considered Christians - have a look for yourself... Religious Society of Friends - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quakers)

Pumpkin: "Spiritualists & Christian Scientists are straight from the pits of Hell. Yeah, evil spirit....eat my dust! Sell your "religion" to the bats."
Val: It is definitely not my religion although my open mindedness and religious tolerance might be mistaken for that. Better to ask me directly than assume though - just a thought.

Pumpkin: "I need no losers here! Fool."
Val: While I may politely or even pointedly disagree with a member here, I have never considered a single one a "fool". I believe you owe an amends here. It might be wise to make it a public one since you stepped in the public diparaging pool yourself. That fits with Christianity, doesn't it?
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/faq.php?faq=faq_rules#faq_disparaging

I respectfully await your reply.

Although Quakers throughout most of their history, and in most parts of the world today, have considered Quakerism to be a Christian movement, there are some Friends today (principally in the unprogrammed Meetings of the United States and the United Kingdom) who consider themselves universalist,agnostic, atheist, or pagan, or who do not accept any religious label. This phenomenon has become increasingly evident during the latter half of the 20th century and the opening years of the 21st century, but it is still controversial and the subject of much discussion and debate among Friends.

Thus sprascht Wilkipedia following your link.



M:)RGANITE

Edit Curlyben: User has been warned about these and other comments in this thread.

Valinors sorrow:

Here is my answer for my disparaging comment -

Your whole post won't work because you are still promoting Spiritualism, regardless of it's roots. I don't care. Mediums are the work of hell. They worship all kinds of spirits. If they are not from the Holy Spirit of the living God, then they are evil. I don't care what kinds of healing they may offer. They are frauds & they prevent their members from finding the real Savior.

I'm not some kind of Christian Apologetic. All I can say is that I accept you. God gave freedom of choice to all & you have that right. I didn't say I was going to" kill" you for that!(that would be offensive) But I can't say "Peace Brother" either because you are not my Brother in Christ. Seems like you actually agree with mediums, etc.

I could never listen to it, but I accept the fact that people in this world may have different beliefs.

I just don't tie a lot of extra baggage unto mine.


We don't live by our feelings. The Holy Spirit controls our will.

They shall mount up with wings as eagles - Isaiah 40:31

"Things you may say are occult. I may see as opportunity. you may claim it to be evil . I may claim it to be Holy."

Jesus said if you loved me you'd obey me. THAT PART. :(

Pumpkin... when at Church, have you ever called out "Amen" during a sermon? Have you evr been so moved that you raised your hands to God? Have you ever listened to music that is NOT Christian music? I can show you MANY Christians that believe that if you have done ANY of these things, then you need to repent and ask the Lords forgiveness, for it is blasphemy!

What do you think? Things that many Christians deem to be evil, you may claim to be Holy! Is it evil to raise your hands to God or is it Holy? What makes you think that the exact version of Christianity that YOU believe in, is the one true way?

You also went on to say:


If they are not from the Holy Spirit of the living God, then they are evil.

How do you know what is from the Holy Spirit and what is not? Many peoples beliefs are exactly that. Just because you feel it is not, because you were raised in such a way to believe that if someone is doing something in the name is the Holy Spirit that you don't know about, don't agree with, or don't do that they are "evil," "losers," and "fools?"

Why do you think Chrisitianity has gotten such a bad name? So many people of my generation are completely closed off to Chrisitianity because of people like you. Peoiple who judge but preach that thou shalt not judge... people that shun others for their sins when they are sinners... people that believe there is a methodigy for being a Christian. Sure these types of people have been around for all of time... but with the day and age we live in now, you are likely to die being the last so-called "Christian" on this Earth.

I still believe that He sent his Son, Jesus Christ, to die for my Sins.

Are you trying to tell me that even though I believe that, that I am not a Christian?

Pumpkin: "Your whole post won't work b/c you are still promoting Spiritualism, regardless of it's roots."
Wow!

And here I thought all along I was promoting open mindedness, respect for other religions or lack thereof, solid intellectual development through the tools of good research and logical debate and general goodfellow forum camaraderie.

My mistake Pumpkin, lol, for being a "loser", a "fool" and now apparently an "agent from hell"! :eek:

Funny thing is I don't really agree with the mediums but sadly you never bothered to ask.

And I wonder how long this goes on before a forum administrator considers it to be the very stuff that is warned about in the written guidelines to this forum. Any admin out there care to comment?

DRJ -

First of all I am judging your words/actions. I'm not judging your heart. That's the bigger issue. God judging your heart.

Second You got it wrong anyway. Your not supposed to be in that kind of repentance where you are raising your hands up to" sinful" music in the present tense. One's sins were forgiven in the receiving of Jesus. If you are in conviction about it now, hey that's your business.

DRJ -

First of all I am judging your words/actions. I'm not judging your heart. That's the bigger issue. God judging your heart.

Second You got it wrong anyway. Your not supposed to be in that kind of repentance where you are raising your hands up to" sinful" music in the present tense. One's sins were forgiven in the receiving of Jesus. If you are in conviction about it now, hey that's your business.

What? I don't even understand what you are trying to say here.

I have no idea what you mean by that post but when I mentioned raising your hands, I said during a sermon... not "sinful" music. And when I spoke of music, I said "non-Christian" music... not necessarily "sinful."

As for my words and my actions, you don't know what I am saying or what I am doing. You are awful quick to pass judgment.

Do you really think I am Satan trying to persuade you? I believe in the same Jesus Christ that you do and I believe that He died for us. Again, despite this, you feel that I will burn for eternity?

I don't know if you are really upset when your in this thread, but you not reading things and taking them out of context. Just so you know, I am not trying to attack you at all and I hope that you understand that. We are only here for good, clean discussion, right? :o

Right on!

Have you not admitted that you like the occult? I didn't say you were Satan. I'm not that extreme. I said how can you not be convicted if you are a born again Christian and you are delving into idolatry and witchcraft? The spirits these witches use are demonic spirits. Where, DRJ, are YOUR angels?. is the question.
;)

To all participants,

As this thread has gone so far off course from the original question I'm closing it.

Thank you.

No, Im sorry... I didn't say anything about liking the occult, idolotry, or witchcraft. I said there are things that you may believe are that but only because you don't understand them... you have already judged them evil and will not hear otherwise.

Nice new avatar!! Lol

Especially when people start accusing others of judging something I well understand!

I agree that what you may think is Holy is not Holy to another. Romans talks about that

f
Here are some scriptures to consider:

[

Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in [a] the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD, and because of these detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you. -- Deuteronomy 18:10-12 (NIV)


He sacrificed his own son in [a] the fire, practiced sorcery ("soothsaying" NKJV) and divination, and consulted mediums and spiritists. He did much evil in the eyes of the LORD, provoking him to anger. -- 2 Kings 21:6 (NIV)



"Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Outside are the dogs, those who practice magic arts ("sorcerers" NKJV), the sexually immoral, the murderers, the idolaters and everyone who loves and practices falsehood. -- Revelation 22:14-15 (NIV)
I think the Bible's viewpoint is clear. The account in Acts shows that divination is linked to demon possession. Serious stuff.

===> oh, give me a frking break here - it's your viewpoint and that stupid book of Revelations which if it isn't Prophecy (it hasn't happened yet so its Prophecy or did you break your calendar? So Revelations is the book of Demons.

Stay clear of spiritism or divination in any form.
Isn't worshipping God a form of Spirtism?
Chris

Here we are - by your defintions about, God is not The God but a poser - as 1) He sacrificed His Son, His Only Beloved Son, so that we might live. Dang. He killed his kid! That'd be sacrifice so God MUST dispise Himself in His own Eyes. Hey, your interpretation.

And: INDENT]Let no one be found among you who sacrifices his son or daughter in [a] the fire, who practices divination or sorcery, interprets omens, engages in witchcraft, or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD, and because of these detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you. -- Deuteronomy 18:10-12 (NIV)[/INDENT]
Them 3 Kings of Orient are came along playing electric guitars and following a star to Bethlehem - think they were acting on ancient prophesy and astrology and omens. Jesus himself did cast spells to command the weather (them boat trips during storms can be hazardous) to smooth the waves to keep the boat from capsizing. And Jesus commanded evil spirits in a man into a herd of pigs and cast a spell on the pigs to run over a cliff. It gets weirder. And we ourselves pray to dead guys and dead women (saints and angels)
Ever day. We pray to Jesus (dead guy), Mother Mary (alleged but dead woman), Holy Ghost (and I guess the Holy Ghost being a Spirit, us talking to Him makes us Spiritualists) so we are well and truly screwed by the Bible's own definitions.
And Revelations, the book of the Bible that everone loves to read as God is going to punish everone but me, what is that book if not prophecy? Where is the evidence?

So yes, I am a Christian, front and center and I take a lot of things on faith. However, I do do some critical thinking sometimes with the loaf that God gave me as He did give us Free Will and the Choice.

So I dive deep into the Occult - which is the study of the hidden, dumbass. Which is why peeples read the Bible over and over again to study the hidden meanings/nuances.

So what was that burning pillar thang and whatever else it was to lead the Israelites out of Egypt? Omens? Whut was that? And that Burning Bush thing? Omen? Sign? Miracle?

So I can pull little bits out of the Bible to "prove" stuff and so can you as I seen your work. I think the difference is that you spit it out by rote and really don't thnk about it and therefore are confining God into a pretty small place - especially when your references are all Old Testament (about God's Power to Smite and Bite) rather than the New Testament, which pretty much sets aside the Old Testament 'cepting the humorous stories, glorious poetry (them Psalms can be smutty but good stuff - that description of a perfect pair of boobies is just great!) and great history and a great working set of Laws for Living, while the New Testament is about Love and Forgiveness rather than the smiting and fighting.

Well, I ramble on here. I do tire of folk trying to put God into a corral when He is infinite (He invented it, I think) and trying to restrict Him (we can't even restrict them crazy Mexicans coming across our border) and that seems so wrong.

So I ask that before you start slinging your Bible to stun folk into submission, you investigate and think about what your religion is to your other than a long set of bits and pieces to flog people with.

Edit Curlyben: User has been warned about these and other comments in this thread.

Valinors sorrow:

Here is my answer for my disparaging comment -

Your whole post won't work b/c you are still promoting Spiritualism, regardless of it's roots. I don't care. Mediums are the work of hell. They worship all kinds of spirits. If they are not from the Holy Spirit of the living God, then they are evil. I don't care what kinds of healing they may offer. They are frauds & they prevent their members from finding the real Savior.

I'm not some kind of Christian Apologetic. All I can say is that I accept you. God gave freedom of choice to all & you have that right. I didn't say I was going to" kill" you for that!(that would be offensive) But I can't say "Peace Brother" either b/c you are not my Brother in Christ. Seems like you actually agree with mediums, etc. ?

I could never listen to it, but I accept the fact that people in this world may have different beliefs.

I just don't tie a lot of extra baggage unto mine.


We don't live by our feelings. The Holy Spirit controls our will.

They shall mount up with wings as eagles - Isaiah 40:31

True Christian psychics work under the Spirit of God. Every true Christian knows that.

Tom

To all participants,

As this thread has gone so far off course from the original question I'm closing it.

Thank you.


An impressive display of personal power. Used for ending abuse. Well done.


Tom

How did this thread get opened again?