A/C died over the weekend.
Repair guy checked the system and found "the compressor seemed to be drawing high AMPs". Replaced a blown fuse and then quoted me $4800 for a whole new system.
Quoted Armana Distinctions 70,000 BTU 95% furnace, 2.5 ton 13 seer condenser, coil and pump.
Figured that I was due for the whole system as I have an old Lenox Pulse 98% efficient furnace that is probably on it's last legs and the a/c has a money grabbing seers rating of 7.

So the questions are:
1. Is this a good starting figure - I will have others quote.
2. Is Armana a good brand?
3. What is a heat pump?
4. Should I get a heat pump added to the system?

BTW - Living in Michigan. Small 1100 sq.ft. Cape Cod with a southern exposure.

Any help would be appreciated.

Nix number 4 for sure since you're in Michigan. Stay tuned, though. We have some excellent HVAC folk here monitoring this board to give further input.

I found this from anoher forum post, might help you some


I'm not sure how familiar you are with dual fuel so, I'll give a brief overview.

The primary source of heat is from the heat pump system that removes heat from the air outside and brings it into the conditioned space. Heat pumps perform poorly when the outside air temperature drops below about 40 degrees F and must have a supplemental form of heat for the space, the electric heat strips are the most common however, electric heat is rather expensive.
Dual Fuel systems operate with a fossil fuel heating system when the outside air temperature falls below a pre-set point, that activates a thermostat sensor to switch the systems, and removes the heat pump from operation, the fossil fuel system becomes the primary heat source. Once the outside air temp rises above that original setpoint, the heat pump becomes primary heat once again. The system will cycle between the two heat sources as needed to provide a constant heat source. Also, as heat pumps require a "defrost" cycle every now and again to clear ice buildup outside, the fossil fuel system will be used to provide heat while the heat pump system is melting te ice off the outside unit.

Dual fuel can use either natural gas, LP gas or oil as the second stage of heat and is dependent upon fuel costs, there is no switching back and forth between fuel types. Except possibly in the case of switching between LP and natural gas which would require reconfiguring the gas furnace portion of the system, that cost will be considerable and will probably negate any savings from switching fuel.

I have installed a few, serviced many and find that if the system is competently installed, properly set-up and started up, problems can be few and far between. Dual fuel systems require more care than conventional systems and PM services should be performed religiously!

As to finding a contractor to handle the installation, I would suggest getting in touch with your local utility provider for their recommended choices. Not all contractors can properly install, maintain and service these type HVAC systems, they are somewhat specialized. Also, obtain the names of some recent customers of these contractors that have had installatiuon of dual fuel systems and speak with them about their system, how does it perform on colder days, how much trouble has it been, how often does it break down and similar type questions.

Once you get a dual fuel system installed by a competent, trustworthy and professional contractor and keep it properly maintained, you should be able to enjoy the benefits.

Also found this that may also help.


A heat pump will never put out hot air like a oil or gas furnace but heat pumps can and will save you big $$ on your overall heat bill.

You will need a dual fuel control to prevent the oil furnace from running when the heat pump is on. Some new thermostats have a built in program for this and you do not have to buy a duel fuel control. Running the oil furnace and the heat pump on a standard upflow furnace is not a good idea at all. It can and will destroy the heat pump in short order because the heat pump coil will not be able to discharge its heat load because the oil furnace has the air already hotter than the heat pumps discharge temperature.

What ever you do find a company that is know for it fine instillation and service. It really does not make a difference what brand of equiptment you buy because it all works the same. What really matters is the people putting it in for you. A good install is worth more than all the money you might spend on the higher priced equiptment with all the bells and whistles.

You can beat yourself to death trying to figure out is this is the best thing for you to do or if the price is right. What it all comes down to is your research on your local level to find the best company in your area. Since we do not live in your area we cannot be of any help with that.

Over the years my corporation installed many duel fuel units and all worked well but if you like to put your hands of feet on a register to get warm a duel fuel will not be for you when the heat pump is running. Heat pumps depend upon a high velocity of luke warm are to heat and nothing can be done about that.

On a side note. Many years ago we installed a heat pump system for some folks that had big money. They wanted the best and we gave the best to them. When winter came the they called and said they really did not like the air temperature that was coming from there grills. To fix this I jumpered one bank of the electric heat elements to come on when the heat pump was running. That made the air much warmer to the touch. They thought I did a miracle an told all there friends about how we made there heat pump feel as warm as regular furnace. For the next month we ran calls for all there friends to make there heat pumps work better and I did the same thing to all of them and made some $$$ to boot. There comfort was more important than energy savings and no one ever complained about there electric bill being higher. All this goes to show you that some folks will never be happy with a heat pump and I suggest you think over what you are about to do since you have already had a experience with a heat pump.

There are some real high efficiency oil and gas furnaces out there. You might get one of those instead of a heat pump and then you can get a high efficiency A/C unit to go with it. I do not have a heat pump in my 2600 square foot home and never will. I also do not like the air temp situation with a heat pump. I ave a 90+ efficient boiler with three hot water fan coils and three separate A/C units so my house is completely zoned for energy savings. Why heat the whole house all day when you do not use the whole house all day. We just heat the rooms as needed on a computer driven schedule.

I forgot to mention R-22 will be available in new equiptment till 2010. R-22 refrigerant will be allowed to be manufactured till 2020. There will be R-22 available for another 25 years after that because of recycling. So by 2045 I am sure none of us will be worried about that situation because the equiptment will be replaced by then.

At the university where I teach augratis since I am retired we have experimented with many different refrigerants. R-410A (Carrier name Puron) works well but has a few draw backs. First it works under a much higher pressure than R-22. The oil used with R-410A is a moisture magnet and special care needs to be taken when the system is installed or serviced because of this moisture contamination possibliity. Many companys have not had the oppurnity to work or install R-410A systems. Make sure the employees who come to do your install have gone to class as offered by the manufactures for this refrigerant. This refrigerant must also be installed as a liquid because it is a two part mixture of two different refrigerants and they will not flow corectly together if used as a gas for charging purposes. There is more to this but I you have enough information as a home owner to arm yourself for self protection. LOL

If your old furnace is natural gas then you should not even consider adding a heat pump to your system. Natural gas is the most efficient form of heating, so to add a heat pump as the primary source of heat is not wise, save the money and upgrade the air conditioning condensing unit, good luck. Mike

Many homeowners are "mystified" by heat pumps for various reasons, usually because they don't understand their designed function and/or what to expect of them. Since my home is equipped with a heat pump system, and I am N.A.T.E. certified in heat pump service & installation, I modestly consider myself an expert in this area. For what it may be worth to yourself or anyone who is considering a heat pump, I offer this "explanation" of their function, benefits, and drawbacks:
In the cooling mode, a heat pump functions just like an air conditioner by removing heat energy and humidity from indoors, and depositing that heat energy outdoors. The refrigerant in the system acts as the "media" for absorbing heat energy from the indoor air and releasing it into the outdoor air (conventional) or a body of groundwater (geothermal). What makes a heat pump system differ from an air conditioning system is it's ability to reverse the direction of refrigerant flow, thus reversing the "roles" of the indoor and outdoor units. In the heating mode, heat energy is absorbed from outdoors and deposited indoors. The amount of heat energy that is available outdoors for the heat pump to absorb has a direct impact on the system's capacity and efficiency. In other words, the warmer it is outside, the greater the system's effectiveness. As the outdoor temperature decreases, the heat pump's ability to produce sufficient heat decreases, and at some point supplemental (electric resistant) or alternative (fossil fuel) heating is required. That "some point" is usually referred to as the "balance point"-this occurs when the heat pump's output is matched by the structure's rate of heat loss.
When considering a heat pump system, your average expected winter climate must also be considered to determine if a heat pump will provide enough of your heat to make it a practical investment. While they may be ideally suited to warmer southern climates with lesser heating requirements, they may not be the best choice for colder northern climates.
The benefits? Under optimal conditions (above 50*f outdoors), a heat pump system's efficiency can exceed 300% and even approach 400% in the heating mode. Energy is not consumed to create heat, but to merely move heat energy from one place to another.
The drawbacks? Compared to a typical fossil fuel heating system, the supply air temperature of a heat pump system will seem "lukewarm" at times due to its lower B.T.U./H. output; and the higher volume/velocity of airflow creates more noise which can be noticeable, even bothersome at times.

So far I've learned more about the heat pump from here then from my local dealers so thanks. No longer looking at the heat pump option.

Now about the Armana system. Any opinions or alternatives recommended? Figure that we'll be in the house at least another 2 years with the way the economy is here in Michigan so I'm not expecting to recoup anything by going with the "best of the best" but don't want to pass along a "piece of crap" to the next owners.

As mentioned earlier:

What ever you do find a company that is know for it fine instillation and service. It really does not make a difference what brand of equiptment you buy because it all works the same. What really matters is the people putting it in for you. A good install is worth more than all the money you might spend on the higher priced equiptment with all the bells and whistles.

The web is your best tool for making comparisons and informing yourself about available options in your price range. The more you know, the more comfortable you will be with making decisions and, ultimately, the result. While you might not consider yourself to be in the "high end" market, there are many brands that offer quality and value-but beware of really "low-end" equipment. What seems like a real money-saver now can turn into a real hole in your pocket later. Considering your geographic proximity to me, I am in no way attempting to solicit your business-I am merely offering a real world perspective based on my experience in the service industry.
As with any brand of any type of appliance, machine, etc. they each have their pros and cons, strong points and flaws. One usually reliable indicator of quality is, how does the manufacturer stand behind their product (i.e. factory warranty)? Typically speaking, the better the warranty, the more confident the manufacturer is that they are offering a quality product. If extended parts and labor warranties are offered, they are usually worth the investment. One overtime service call to replace a major (and usually costly) component can more than offset the cost of the warranty.
If you are being offered a brand that you have never heard of before, you should start wondering why at some point-the sooner the better (anyone out there still driving a Yugo?). Several domestic household appliance manufacturers have "jumped in" to the heating and air conditioning market with less than favorable results. Maybe they make a great dishwasher; don't assume the same for their other products. How long have they been "in the business"? There is simply no substitute for good research, development, and testing.
As with any major expense, seek more than one estimate and don't "show your cards". Take notes, look for similarities and inconsistencies between proposals, and whenever possible check into the contractors' reputation-if it's good they won't mind providing you with references. While it's okay to let a contractor know that you are seeking comparative bids, I would avoid "sharing" information from bid "a" with contractor "b", etc. to keep things fair and honest for everyone involved. When it comes time to choose, make sure you are comparing "apples to apples". The lowest bid may not necessarily be the best deal.

The Amana equipment is as good as most air conditioning products out there, the installation is very important to the efficiency and life of the system with trouble free operation. Shop around and ask your friends for referrals, Good luck. Mike