I'm very curious about others outlook on this subject.

Health care in the US is a big problem and the majority of the
Population go without because it's not affordable or they have pre existing illnesses and are turned down by insurance companies.

Has anyone heard pro/cons about medical tourism?

Anyone ever known anyone to travel to another country
In order to have their major surgeries and/or treatments at a fraction of the cost?

What do uninsured people do in order to not go bankrupt due to medical bills or get turned down by doctors and treatment facilities?

The majority of people in the United States enjoy the best healthcare system in the world. Only 44 million people are without traditional healthcare in a nation of almost 300 million. All of the people without healthcare enjoy free emergency visits at some of the best hospitals in the world. The majority of the people in that 44 million have access to free clinics in most cities that provide free care to those who can not afford it. That 44 million is Michael Moore's number that has been skewed to make it as large as possible. Healthcare is very cheap in America most people that don't have it can afford it and choose not to, we are America we allow you to make your own choice even if it's a wrong one.

All of the people without healthcare enjoy free emergency visits at some of the best hospitals in the world
I'm sorry, but I am uninsured and I can assure you that I cannot walk into any hospital's ER and receive free treatment in the US.


The majority of the people in that 44 million have access to free clinics in most cities that provide free care to those who can not afford it.
You said most cities. That doesn't mean all.
What do you think it's like trying to cram millions of people into a handful of free clinics??
More people are turned down at the free clinic everyday than are seen each day. It's not practical...
And that's just a general doctors visit, not major surgeries nor illness treatments such as cancer, etc.


Healthcare is very cheap in America most people that don't have it can afford it and choose not to
Free and cheep?
I can also say that I cannot afford the $600 to $800 US dollars it will cost my family each month to have insurance coverage. This does not include deductibles and copays.


we are America we allow you to make your own choice even if it's a wrong one.
That figure doesn't even include myself because I'm not insurable.
I had a bit of depression in the past and now no insurance company
Will even consider insuring me. Wheres my choice even if I could afford it?

AND I'm not talking about or asking about Medicaid if that's what you are assuming when talking about "FREE".

My husband and I make too much money to qualify for any government assistance programs, but cannot afford to pay our bills or take care of our family if we were to purchase health insurance...

Wheres the choice there? Pay health insurance and go without food?
Pay health insurance and have no power, no roof over our head?
Some choices...

I'm sorry that you are one of the people who falls into the gap, but in America if either you or your husband have a full time job most employers(depends on how many employees the company has) are required to give you health insurance at the standard group rate that the employer pays which will be lower than $600 or $800, preexisting conditions do not exclude you from that. So if your employer is telling you different you might want to check on that. If both of your employers isn't one of those employers that has give you the group rate, I suggest one of you switch to an employer that does.

Your right I did mis-speak on the emergency service you do not get free service however you will be treated regardless of your ability to pay. If you can't pay it's free.

We have not reached a point in human history where quality healthcare can be offered to everyone, right now every healthcare system on the planet has it's problems and the grass always seems greener on the other side of the fence.

The universal health care scheme in Australia works fairly well. It has its flaws but pretty much all people get the medical care and attention they require at a cost that is affordable to them or no cost at all.

At times recently we have appeared to be going down the same track as the US health care system too much public outcry.

Medicare (Australia) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medicare_%28Australia%29)

I have to say that from the outside looking in and without knowing a great deal about the situation in the US, that it looks like quality health care in the US is only afforded to the rich and there is little assistance for the many others. But as I said I'm only on the outside looking in.

To answer AKaeTrue's question first, most medical tourism in the USA is for a specific procedure most of the time one that health insurance won't cover like in vitro fertilization. IVF treatments in the USA run about $15,000 per treatment where it can be done in India for $3,000-$5,000. The pro of this is cost of course. The con is that you don't have US laws protecting you if something were to go wrong. Basically it's for people that can afford the optional treatment but want to save money. In Canada medical tourism is different it's for rich people who don't want to wait to get treatment. I remember one story about a young lady who broke her leg and needed surgery to fix it. She went to the Canadian hospital and was told she could not get her treatment for 8 weeks which meant 8 weeks of a wheel chair and pain. So she drove across the border and went to a US hospital she was scheduled for that afternoon, of course it cost her $5,000 where in Canada she had already prepaid with her tax money.

To Skell,
Services are available to the poor in America the problem is most have to work to get it. We don't just hand it out. Like I said earlier we only have 44 million without health insurance while that seems like a lot it really isn't. We have about 15 million illegal immigrants in that number. That figure also counts everyone that is between jobs that is waiting for their health insurance to kick in, which they could have bought temporary health insurance between that time but most don't. It also counts people that can afford it but choose not too. I have many friends that drive $100,000 cars but go without health insurance because they don't think they need it. For America what we need is more education to the public about the laws and what is available to them. That seems to be the biggest problem in the USA. I bet the OP didn't know that her employer had to provide her with the cheap group rate plan even though she is "uninsurable" on her own.

I have to say that from the outside looking in and without knowing a great deal about the situation in the US, that it looks like quality health care in the US is only afforded to the rich and there is little assistance for the many others. But as I said I'm only on the outside looking in.

For some, health insurance doesn't fit into their budget. For others, they would rather buy Coach purses and flip flops and then complain they don't have the money for it (don't laugh, true story). I did a little investigation of coverage for a family of four, in my area (DC metro) with Kaiser, an HMO that is notoriously expensive. I put in my and my husband's information to get the quote. If hubby and I had two kids, we could get the best plan Kaiser offers, with the lowest co-pay possible for $537 a month. If we couldn't afford that, we could get the cheapest plan which has us paying the most out of pocket for everything for $305 a month. Now, if you are really living paycheck to paycheck, with all your money going toward rent, electricity and so on, maybe that's not within your means. But if you are living paycheck to paycheck because you buy a new Coach handbag every season, and go out to dinner three times a week, and drive a brand new car, well, it stands to reason you could make some adjustments to squeeze that money out every month to protect yourself and your family. There are other options as well; other companies might charge less, might cover less, and so on. I suppose it comes down to what you think your family needs. If you have kids who are prone to accidents and you are visiting the doctor all the time, chances are you want to buy the more expensive plan, because you will pay less out of pocket with each visit. In contrast, if you almost never go to the doctor, go for the cheap plan. There is also catastrophic insurance which can be purchased for those with preexisting conditions, which varies in price. My brother had back surgery and has continuing problems with pain, so he was deemed "uninsurable". His employer didn't offer insurance (only 5 employees), and he managed to get a full plan. How? He got onto a supplemental group plan; this insurance guy came to his office one day and basically said, "I'm looking for people to join this group plan so more can have coverage at a lower cost.". Since he was joining a group plan, he couldn't get turned down for his back problems. I don't think this is a common thing, but it is possible to get insurance when you think all hope is lost.

So what that long, rambling rant is supposed to summarize is that insurance isn't necessarily unaffordable to Americans. Certain situations are different of course, but by far I wouldn't say that only the rich have coverage. There are social programs for those who can't afford even the minimum, but they are poorly designed and mis-managed. In my opinion, THOSE programs need reform to accommodate people in need, rather than switching to a fully gov't run system. I would venture to guess your assumptions on the US system are based on Michael Moore's new movie, SiCKO. I'm not saying he doesn't have some valid points, but his numbers and statistics were sort of cherry picked to make things look worse than they really are.

Here are the links to where I got my quotes, btw:
https://kpmid.ikaenterprise.com/IndividualQuotes/Enrollment/ComparePlans.aspx#
https://kpmid.ikaenterprise.com/IndividualQuotes/InputDocs/KPMAS_2007_Plans.pdf

As an aside, AkaeTrue, I'm not trying to imply you haven't exhausted your options, or looked into the coverage available to you. If in fact, you cannot get coverage for less than $600 - $800 then, as Micheal said, you seem to be one of the ones who fell into the gap.

I agree about Michael Moores movie made the problem look bigger than it really is. I do have to say though, at the beginning of my venture to this site, I was asking about debt from doctor bills. We have wonderful insurance, my husbands employer pays 6 hundred of the 715 we need to pay for a family of 6. Yup, really good. Having made a choice a long time ago to be a stay at home mother, well it has put some financial strain on us. I am taking a different take on our whole budget and I am fitting it in every month I pay the bills on time and extra doctor bills too. We have a co pay of 30 dollars unless it is some odd charge then we pay 20% of the bill. It is really hard to do but budgeting doctor bills in really has helped us... We first had to make a pain staking choice to sell our house to pay all of our debts first. It was the hardest but best choice we could come up with. I am all for getting to choose who and when I see a doctor! I don't mind paying for it.

I posted this here because it effects us all and is a big election issue.
While the current US healthcare system is far from perfect, is Universal Healthcare the answer?


BBC NEWS | Health | UK 'has worst cancer record' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/2077996.stm)




I think the govn't would be okay for evidence based preventitive care but would leave acute care to the free market.




Grace and Peace

Yes, I guess you COULD split it up in catergories. This is covered, this is not. Is that what you are saying?

Pacific Research Institute • Publications • Michael Moore Confirms that Government Health Care is Sicko (http://liberty.pacificresearch.org/publications/id.3036/pub_detail.asp)



Yes

I am not interested in the "waiting list" crap. I am going to pay for what I get and be proud of it. I am not going to wait for an appointment and I will be seeing Doctors of my choice. That is how it stands for me. If someone has a plan that is cheaper or free on those lines then, Ok I say!

He [ Michael Moore} rails against “for-profit” health care, but 85 percent of U.S. hospitals are non-profit, and almost half of privately insured Americans have polices from non-profit health insurers.

Moore referred to the Martin Luther King Jr.-Harbor hospital in Los Angeles, where a patient died of a perforated bowel after lying on the emergency room floor for 45 minutes. Since 2004, the hospital has received more than a dozen state and federal safety citations. Hospital errors included leaving sick patients unattended which resulted in death for three of them, giving patients the wrong medications, and using Taser stun guns to restrain psychiatric patients.

This hospital is not private, however. It is owned by the County of Los Angeles. So much for reliable government care. And the private insurers Moore rails against are currently selling health policies laden with government mandates and regulations.



Mr. Moore also thinks Canada is a good role model, but two years ago the Canadian Supreme Court found that government monopoly health care violates basic human rights. The winning plaintiff in this case, Mr. Zeliotis, needed hip surgery. When he tried to pay privately for his operation rather than wait in the public line (which takes two to four years) the Canadian government stopped him. Mr. Zeliotis argued against government interference with his freedom to choose private medical care. The denial of such a choice prolonged his pain and threatened his safety.


Note the last paragraph - government monopoly limits CHOICE


Healthcare is not "FREE" - you either pay out of pocket, in taxes, in premiums or any combination all three.

Is the American public so knaive to believe that because politicians say it should be free - that it will be?


The incentives should be for the consumer/insurer/government to reward good health habits, preventative care, and chronic disease management.

Grace and Peace

Doctors go through a lot of schooling to make what they do here in the US. Hospitals are definitely political and they are so huge that of course they are going to make BIG mistakes. What I don't get is how they can make so much money and still not be making a profit. Am I being charged for the lady down the street not paying her bill? I do not think that is fair at all. If she had no choice but not to pay I guess I don't mind helping... I am against someone not paying cause they want a new car or something like that though.
Another question, I am not fully informed so I might ask a few through out this post! Would it be bad to have a state to state plan instead of a U.S. plan? Like take a state with a bigger need in to concideration?

My husband and I are self employed, so the employer thing doesn't apply.
I guess this is where my main problem originates from.
I have no company employer to pay any amount of the cost.

My children use to be covered under Medicaid.
It's a good program when they were on it,
But is now being seriously abused by the slackers and
The program has gone down hill.

We worked really hard to better ourself, make more money and live in a nicer area for our children.
But by doing this, we no longer qualified for any assistance and could not afford health care on our own.
It's been a few years now of self pay and I feel fortunate that nothing major has happened and what not,
But it's time to find some coverage.

I was hoping with a few years of increased income, I'd find a good plan within our budget,
But it seems as the years have gone by the cost of health insurance has increased as well, leaving us exactly where we were in the beginning.

Thank you Michealb for sharing some info about medical tourism.

Thanks to everyone else as well and thank you for the links.

I read somewhere that 60% of people in America go without health coverage?
That would make 44 million sound good.
I guess I was misinformed by reading stuff on the internet.

Who is Michael Moores?

I don't believe I have exhausted all options yet, I'm still searching and talking to many different companies.

I believe that the people who have healthcare insurance through their employer or Medicaid/Medicare think that it's so easy and affordable for everyone else to get. It's not...

No, health care is not free...
However, it is free for the jobless slackers who sit home all day producing more babies for more free benefits.
It's not free for us because our tax dollars pay for it, but is free for them.
Some of the people who pay for their health coverage have to go without - that's messed up.

I figured Michael Moore was the reason you were asking this question. Michael Moore is the so called documentary film maker that hates America. He skews his figures to make America look like it's on brink of collapse and then sell his documentary to the rest of the world to paint a bad picture of us. His latest documentary Sicko (2007) (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0386032/) is about how bad US health care is. He picks and chooses what facts he wants to display in order to make it appear as bad as possible. So if you don't know any better and don't do your research you agree with him.

Universal health care will only compound the jobless slackers that get free benefits and from what it sounds like from your situation universal health care would be very bad because instead of being able to make the choice not to buy health insurance you would be forced to do so by increased tax rates so that the government could cover you and the slacker down the street.

As Jillian said earlier perhaps you should talk with an insurance agent and see if there is a group plan that you can join for small business owners. I know our government has lots of programs to help small business owners out so there maybe something there for you.

Doctors go through a lot of schooling to make what they do here in the US. Hospitals are definately political and they are so huge that of course they are going to make BIG mistakes. What I don't get is how they can make so much money and still not be making a profit. Am I being charged for the lady down the street not paying her bill? I do not think that is fair at all. If she had no choice but not to pay I guess I don't mind helping......I am against someone not paying cause they want a new car or something like that though.
Another question, I am not fully informed so I might ask a few through out this post! Would it be bad to have a state to state plan instead of a U.S. plan? Like take a state with a bigger need in to concideration?

Funny you should mention the "BIG mistakes", check out this: Ariz. hospital sends patient a $49M bill - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070716/ap_on_fe_st/odd_bogus_bills;_ylt=AmZucwwq04D5Gm0rspoHKKosQE4F) EEK! Now of course that was an admin error and I mention it for poops and giggles purposes only!

It's my understanding though, that doctors charge so much in part because of the malpractice insurance they must carry. There are medical malpractice suits out there where people are being awarded millions upon millions of dollars. I'm not saying if you are wrongfully treated you shouldn't have rights and options, but a botched boob job doesn't entitle you to $10million!

State to state plans... well, that means the federal gubment has to relinquish some power, so, probably not going to happen. :)

My mother in law has the same problem. Just for herself she pays up to 450.00 a month.
It all depends what plan she is on. Seems to me I hear her talking about switching plans every few months for a lower rate. That kind of money would kill my family financially. I will look into what company she is going with and what her rate is and get back to you. If that would help at all.

Funny you should mention the "BIG mistakes", check out this: Ariz. hospital sends patient a $49M bill - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070716/ap_on_fe_st/odd_bogus_bills;_ylt=AmZucwwq04D5Gm0rspoHKKosQE4F) EEK! Now of course that was an admin error and I mention it for poops and giggles purposes only!

It's my understanding though, that doctors charge so much in part because of the malpractice insurance they must carry. There are medical malpractice suits out there where people are being awarded millions upon millions of dollars. I'm not saying if you are wrongfully treated you shouldn't have rights and options, but a botched boob job doesn't entitle you to $10million!

State to state plans... well, that means the federal gubment has to relinquish some power, so, probably not going to happen. :)

Wow, that is funny. I know it is crazy that people are being awarded that kind of money. I had 3 surgeries on my ear and was really screwed up after. I told the people I needed to and that was that. I didn't sue for millions although I am positive I would have gotten hundreds of thousands but I didn't... Money makes people go mad. Even people with enough of it to do whatever they want.
All right so I have no good ideas on what to do. I have opinions on what not to do though. I will not stand to see someone about my health that I am not comfortable with...

I figured Michael Moore was the reason you were asking this question. Michael Moore is the so called documentary film maker that hates America. He skews his figures to make America look like it's on brink of collapse and then sell his documentary to the rest of the world to paint a bad picture of us. His latest documentary Sicko (2007) (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0386032/) is about how bad US health care is. He picks and chooses what facts he wants to display in order to make it appear as bad as possible. So if you don't know any better and don't do your research you agree with him.

Universal health care will only compound the jobless slackers that get free benefits and from what it sounds like from your situation universal health care would be very bad because instead of being able to make the choice not to buy health insurance you would be forced to do so by increased tax rates so that the government could cover you and the slacker down the street.

As Jillian said earlier perhaps you should talk with an insurance agent and see if there is a group plan that you can join for small business owners. I know our government has lots of programs to help small business owners out so there maybe something there for you.
I vaguely heard about Sicko...
LOL, the funny thing about it is that I thought it was a scary movie.
I happen to be terrified of scary movies, don't pay attention to, listen to or watch their pre views, so I had no idea what it actually was...

Jillian, thanks for all the info and links. I'll definitely being checking into them further.
I heard about the malpractice thing too.
It made sense to me because these days people are suing the doctors for large amounts of money for every little thing.

Startover, thanks every bit of info helps

Blue Cross Blue Shield is what she has. I loved them, they were great. They covered almost everything and $20 co-pay with regular visits. Good luck!

Yep, blue cross blue shield is awesome.
I had them growing up until I was 21 under my parents.
They are one of the best in my opinion.