Statistics shows that smart, successful women marry at the same rates as other women, assuring millions of American SWANS (Strong Women Achievers, No Spouse) that they have no reason to doubt themselves.
For a generation of SWANS -- Strong Women Achievers, No Spouse -- these myths have become conventional wisdom. If you attended a good school, have an impressive job, have career aspirations or dream of future success, men will find you less attractive. "I've been told by well-meaning relatives: 'Don't talk about work on a date, dumb it down, and it's bad to earn so much money because guys will be scared of you.' And I got the word 'intimidating' a lot," said Alexis, a 35-year-old lawyer in San Francisco.


Is that really a problem for guys to date overachieving women?

Thanks!:rolleyes:

I married a lawyer. I've never dated dumb girls - can't stand them.
I think the acronym is silly. Many women decide never to marry or have children though I'm not how many go it by choice.

I married a lawyer. I've never dated dumb girls - can't stand them.
I think the acronym is silly. Many women decide never to marry or have children though I'm not how many go it by choice.

Good for you!
SOme successful and good looking women are actually disappointed on how men get scared off them.
Thank you for your response, I am glad that u only date smart ladies, u must be a really smart man, I think!;)

Tear it up! Simple answer-Yes, as far as I have seen, it is a problem for guys to date overachieving women. I am still hope some really mature men have got over with it!
Good like to SWANS!:) ( I think I am one of them)

I married a lawyer. I've never dated dumb girls - can't stand them.
I think the acronym is silly. Many women decide never to marry or have children though I'm not how many go it by choice.

What are you then? :rolleyes:

A strong, self-assured guy. And a great daddy. :)

If you are on a date with a guy who is intimidated by your success, you probably don't want to go on a second date. There's no reason to dumb yourself down to get a boyfriend. There are men out there who respect and prefer intelligent, strong women. I should know, I married one! :)

A strong, self-assured guy. And a great daddy. :)
That's who strong females marry, or should.

Men (even successful ones) want a woman who will be there when they get home. I don't mean to say that men want uneducated women that are going to stay at home and cook and clean. Men just don't want to be with women that are busier than they are.. I am attractive, have a masters degree and am very successful in my career, travel a lot for work, and still run into educated men that want someone who is "less busy". I don't believe that smart men are intimidated by smart, successful, beautiful women. I however do see some of these women that hold their nose up so high in the air that men are not so much "indimidated" by them but just turned off by them.

Men (even successful ones) want a woman who will be there when they get home. I dont mean to say that men want uneducated women that are going to stay at home and cook and clean. Men just dont want to be with women that are busier than they are.. I am attractive, have a masters degree and am very successful in my career, travel alot for work, and still run into educated men that want someone who is "less busy". I dont believe that smart men are intimidated by smart, successful, beautiful women. I however do see some of these women that hold their nose up so high in the air that men are not so much "indimidated" by them but just turned off by them.

I agree,but in real life even successful men prefer secetary type ladies, ones that are smart but NOT TOO SMART. It's not fair for good women who work hard on their way up. I understand women like us who are well educated and have to travel a lot for work, there are just tons for work for us. I am sure you have to work a bit after you get back to hotel every now and then. We are just so busy that there is almost no chance to meet men. Inspired,it's a good point not to hold nose to high in the air!
Woh 337, I am glad to bring this topic up!:)

Everyone has their own personal likes and dislikes. I don't think it would nessarily matter to me what a partner does just somebody I can talk to intelligently and has something actually going for them.

Everyone has their own personal likes and dislikes. I don't think it would nessarily matter to me what a partner does just somebody I can talk to intelligently and has something actually going for them.
NOt many men think like you are. It's mature to think like you do!
Many men can't get over with women being bread winners and overachieving, witty,powerful nowadays.sigh...

Many men can't get over with women being bread winners

Heh, my hubby WISHES I was the bread winner! He'd kill for me to be his "sugar mama" instead of the other way around!

Heh, my hubby WISHES I was the bread winner! He'd kill for me to be his "sugar mama" instead of the other way around!
That actually bothers me too-if my future man wants me to be bread winner, I hope both of us work hard, be independent!

Read this book
Amazon.com: Why Smart Men Marry Smart Women: Books: Christine Whelan (http://www.amazon.com/Why-Smart-Men-Marry-Women/dp/0743290399/ref=dp_return_1/104-6124327-9273535?ie=UTF8&n=283155&s=books&qid=1184553282&sr=1-9)

Inspired makes a great point. When I marry, I want ONE of us to stay home and raise the kids... I don't want the kids brought up by a nanny or a relative or whomever. I don't care which of us stays home, but given my career I'm pretty sure I'm the one who's going to be working.

That actually bothers me too-if my future man wants me to be bread winner, I hope both of us work hard, be independent!

He's just joking. Right now he works his butt off so I can stay home and be a full time student. The point in that is so hopefully someday my earning potential will allow HIM to quit working for three years, as I have done. Or at the very least, so my earning potential can allow us to save for a nice, cushy, early retirement.

He's just joking. Right now he works his butt off so I can stay home and be a full time student. The point in that is so hopefully someday my earning potential will allow HIM to quit working for three years, as I have done. Or at the very least, so my earning potential can allow us to save for a nice, cushy, early retirement.
Yup, way to go!:)

Inspired makes a great point. When I marry, I want ONE of us to stay home and raise the kids... I don't want the kids brought up by a nanny or a relative or whomever. I don't care which of us stays home, but given my career I'm pretty sure I'm the one who's gonna be working.
Good for you, I hope you find the perfect one.

Or at the very least, so my earning potential can allow us to save for a nice, cushy, early retirement.
I retired early because I had a hard working smart female who wanted me to kick my feet up, and enjoy myself, and yes I do. I'm also a cheap baby sitter and great cook, that helps.:D

Damn Tal, I'm jealous - that's the future I envision for myself though I'd like to do it now with my two year old and six year old. Love to cook too. And if the kids grow up to love golf and hockey I'd be in heaven. They'd be on the course or the rink with me. :)

When I met my ex fiancé she made more money then me. I was intimidated because she was very smart and made more then me. Do to me starting this new career I new I would be making just as much. Then she said she wanted to be a lawyer and that intimidated me even more. But as we got to know each other the intimidation want away and it didn't bother me anymore.

SAB,
When I met my wife and she told me she was articling I was aroused. :D

Hey I have a two year old and a six year old, grandchildren here now. We are headed to the pool, its 92 degrees in the shade. Take good care of your female, and she will take care of you. I also do foot massages. Make them holler!!

I could use a foot massage right about now ;)

I am also afraid that overachiving women, who are successful professionals, will end up meet men who want to marry us, because of the money.

An independent guy will want to remain independent. If you suspect that you are dating a moocher I would imagine you would see some signs early on.

An independant guy will want to remain independant. If you suspect that you are dating a moocher I would imagine you would see some signs early on.
Yea, that's what people say to me, I should be able to tell that early, but what if he fakes... I didn't have much experience with men so how can I tell? (I never had a boyfriend before):o

If you've never had a boyfriend before then it's hard to give you hard and fast rules. I'm guessing that you're not going to marry the first person you date so enjoy yourself and date people who you find interesting. That's the only way for you to find out what you like and don't like in a mate.

If you've never had a boyfriend before then it's hard to give you hard and fast rules. I'm guessing that you're not going to marry the first person you date so enjoy yourself and date people who you find interesting. That's the only way for you to find out what you like and don't like in a mate.

I agree, thank you for the advice... but I am so picky and take things too seriously, I just feel if I don't see this person I can marry, I won't even start date him. I feel like u can't date for fun, you can't waste other's time, and I really feel that I can tell if a guy is a mature or not real quick without dating him. I am too picky when things come to date, the guys around me about my age are too immature, not responsible... sigh,

As you get into the real world there will be those whom you attract and, are attracted to. Go slow pay attention, and above all have fun. The whole point in life (my opinion) is to be happy and share that happiness with another. So be happy as you go through your life.

As you get into the real world there will be those whom you attract and, are attracted to. Go slow pay attention, and above all have fun. The whole point in life (my opinion) is to be happy and share that happiness with another. So be happy as you go thru your life.

THank you Tal, you are the best, hug!
I am a young professional at a global 500, I work so much and travel so much, I never have time to meet guys. I do, but just at work, at meetings, where I am so focused at work. After long day work, I went back to hotel, fall asleep. My life is like that... what can I do now? I am 23, NEVER HAD A BF:( WHen you see my pic, I guess you are surprised too, right?
P.S. I don't rely on those online dating things. I have to be careful, ocz people might lie when they only communicate with you through internet.

WHen u see my pic, I guess you are surprised too, right?
I have read your words and understand the fear of failure in them. As to your looks, cute, but that's not what will get you a real man. What's in your heart, and what you are about is what a real man wants, not a resume. If your beauty is only skin deep then you are in trouble, unless he sees the real you he can never come to you. You are more than your resume aren't you??? And there are many beautiful women out here.

I have read your words and understand the fear of failure in them. As to your looks, cute, but thats not what will get you a real man. Whats in your heart, and what you are about is what a real man wants, not a resume. If your beauty is only skin deep then you are in trouble, unless he sees the real you he can never come to you. You are more than your resume aren't you??? And there are many beautiful women out here.
I am a kind person, very friendly and reasonable. I volunteered a lot back in college, people like me very much. I did everything I could to be as successful as I can, but I think miss the big part of life, maybe all I can do now is be patient and waiting for the right one. I don't want to fail in anything, that's problly another reason I am overcautious of dating. I don't trust guys ealisy as well. I am afraid they will drag me down sometimes. It's complicated how I feel about dating, always.
My friends say because I don't get out! I kind of agree, but I thought I did get out, I went to all the student org and attended lots of campus activities. Do I really have to go to the bar or club to meet guys?

We are all afraid to have our heart stompped on, considering the misery and pain on these forums but if you never take a risk, you cannot grow and learn. You can never be sure of anything.

We are all afraid to have our heart stompped on, considering the misery and pain on these forums but if you never take a risk, you cannot grow and learn. You can never be sure of anything.

True, it's kind of frustrating to think about those things, I am back to work on the report now:p

Love your signature!LOL
Don't work too hard, girl!:)
Oh by the way, I think you are hot;)

SWANS-Strong Women Achievers, No Spouse? Why would a woman be considered an achiever or strong just because she has a career. From a man's point of view, isn't this a bit sexist?

SWANS-Strong Women Achievers, No Spouse? Why would a woman be considered an achiever or strong just because she has a career. From a man's point of view, isn't this a bit sexist?
Well, not because she has a career!
OKay, let's say she graduated from an ivy league(problly with a master or PH.D), got into top global "50", being promoted very fast, attractive and wealthy... that's what we mean a strong woman!
Oh if she has morals, then that is stronger:cool:

Well, not b/c she has a career!
OKay, let's say she graduated from an ivy league(problly with a master or PH.D), got into top global "50", being promoted very fast, attractive and wealthy...that's what we mean a strong woman!
Oh if she has morals, then that is stronger:cool:

U crap me up!:eek: are you talking about anyone you know?:o It sounds so familiar!:rolleyes:

Men just dont want to be with women that are busier than they are.. I am attractive, have a masters degree and am very successful in my career, travel alot for work, and still run into educated men that want someone who is "less busy". I dont believe that smart men are intimidated by smart, successful, beautiful women. I however do see some of these women that hold their nose up so high in the air that men are not so much "indimidated" by them but just turned off by them.

I agree,but in real life even successful men prefer secetary type ladies, ones that are smart but NOT TOO SMART. It's not fair for good women who work hard on their way up. I understand women like us who are well educated and have to travel a lot for work, there are just tons fo work for us. I am sure you have to work a bit after you get back to hotel every now and then. We are just so busy that there is almost no chance to meet men.
Two words: Priorities, and Standards.

First, Priorities: There are 24 hours in everybody's day and if you fill them up with work and work-related thoughts and activities, there won't be much left for socialization, dating and such. That's fine and dandy if those priorities actually reflect your true values, namely, that work and professional achievement is more important to you than romance, love, and family. But if those are your priorities and you act on them, then don't complain about how it's not fair that "good" men aren't interested in you. They're plenty interested, but you're too busy with other things--simple as that, and nobody's choice but yours. It takes time, effort and attention to get to know someone well enough to be able to tell whether you have a future together. If you aren't willing to devote that level of resources to the task, don't be surprised that it doesn't get done. Again, nobody's choice but yours, so don't complain about the men.

Second, Standards:
I am so picky and take things too seriously, I just feel if I don't see this person I can marry, I won't even start date him. I feel like u can't date for fun, you can't waste other's time, and I really feel that i can tell if a guy is a mature or not real quick without dating him. I am too picky when things come to date, the guys around me about my age are too immature, not responsible...sigh
See, it really isn't about what the men want or don't want, it's about what YOU want and don't want. You are setting an impossibly high standard that even the "perfect man" is bound to fail to satisfy. If you don't already want to marry him, you can't "waste" the time it takes to get to know him, and of course, you can't seriously want to marry someone you don't know. Really now, think about it. It puts an impossibly high premium on your first impressions. I don't doubt that you're smart, but you're not so smart that you can always tell "real quick without dating him" that he's not mature or responsible enough. People, even men, are more complicated than that, and if you want to get beneath the surface to know the real person inside, it's going to take some time and effort on your part. If you're so serious and driven that you "can't date for fun", because it would "waste other's time" (and presumably yours as well), then you will never get close enough to anybody to be able to tell whether you could love them.

I never understood arranged marriages, but in your case, springgirl, it might be just the thing. You combine an impossibly high standard with a relatively low priority, so left to your own devices, it may never get done. The effective executive learns to delegate low-priority tasks.

Or you could just decide to be a successful single woman who doesn't fall in love, get married or have a family. Nothing wrong with that, but if that's what you choose to do, take ownership of it and recognize that it's YOUR choice and has nothing to do with what men want or don't want. It's what YOU want, and what you get by virtue of your own choices.

Priorities, standards and choices. All yours.

"It furthers one to cross the great water. No blame."
--The I Ching

Priorities, standards and choices. All yours.

"It furthers one to cross the great water. No blame."

--The I Ching

Finally, smart man talks:D

Did you finish "I Ching"?

Did you finish "I Ching"??
Well, I wouldn't say I "finished" it exactly, but I've used it intermittently for more than 30 years. The I Ching and the Tao Teh Ching are among the half-dozen or so books of wisdom that I read and refer to often for guidance and inspiration.

I'm actually feeling rather insulted at the moment.

I'm an admin assistant. Yup, that's right---I'm a secretary-type.

Because I'm not a career woman who graduated from college, I'm not intelligent? Or intimidating? (come on --I want to be intimidating!)

While I may not be in the statistics as the smartest woman ever, or even in the top 25% of the smartest women ever---I'd like to think that I'm not STUPID, either. Or at least better than "Not TOO smart".

I think Ordinaryguy got it right---my priorities were different than yours. You want a career with your Ivy League degree, and the only thing I ever really wanted was to be a good wife and mommy. Does that make me some trailer trash ho with no ambition? I'd like to think not! I have a lousy job that I don't really like, instead of a career. I have no degree or credentials. I'm not even really that cute, all things considered.

However---I have a husband that loves me, a circle of friends that I love and trust, and family I can depend on in pretty much any kind of crisis there is. I have a nice apartment, a car that runs, and I consider myself to be "successful", since to me the meaning of that word is "Happy".

I'm actually feeling rather insulted at the moment.

I'm an admin assistant. Yup, that's right---I'm a secretary-type.

Because I'm not a career woman who graduated from college, I'm not intelligent? Or intimidating? (come on --I want to be intimidating!)

While I may not be in the statistics as the smartest woman ever, or even in the top 25% of the smartest women ever---I'd like to think that I'm not STUPID, either. Or at least better than "Not TOO smart".

I think Ordinaryguy got it right---my priorities were different than yours. You want a career with your Ivy League degree, and the only thing I ever really wanted was to be a good wife and mommy. Does that make me some trailer trash ho with no ambition? I'd like to think not! I have a lousy job that I don't really like, instead of a career. I have no degree or credentials. I'm not even really that cute, all things considered.

However---I have a husband that loves me, a circle of friends that I love and trust, and family I can depend on in pretty much any kind of crisis there is. I have a nice apartment, a car that runs, and I consider myself to be "successful", since to me the meaning of that word is "Happy".

The mind is your own. Everyone 's life is a different, no need to feel insulted. I of course want to be a good wife, I keep my purity to my future husband, I hope he appreciates in the future. Not many women are willing to do that now!For me what is more important is work right now, I got responsibility for my parents and grandparents. I hope there will be a good man for me, there is everyone fore everyone, right? Your ambition is forwards your family too, no one said you are trash,LOL. It's good and I think you have chosen what you enjoy most of our life.

Evolutionarily, men do not want women who are more interested in work than having and looking after their kids, that is the basic way that women appeal to the man's animal instincts. They want their genes propagated.

For me what is more important is work right now, I got responsibilty for my parents and grandparents.I think there may be a few culture issues here as well. I've seen many first and second generation asians arrive in North America funded by their families. They do indeed feel an immense pressure to be successful as it relates to earning a large income just for the reasons you mentioned. Many other people do not have those pressures and thus define success in different terms.

Evolutionarily, men do not want women who are more interested in work than having and looking after their kids, that is the basic way that women appeal to the man's animal instincts. They want their genes propagated.

Yes, it is ture.
Nice springgirl, I am a man, and when I read your posts and Woh's posts(original), I totally agree with your concerns. I am, honestly, intimidated by overachieving women, but I wish I could have a chance to date someone like you. I think I would get inspired by you, plus you have great look and good heart, you are willing to take care of your parents your family. Typical Asian woman, you are!
I always like an Asian woman.:D

I think it's WONDERFUL, Spring, that you're wanting to work and take on your responsibilities! It's clear that you know what you want with your life, especially in the short term, and it's ALSO clear you're working toward that! That takes a lot of determination and a lot of guts, in so many ways.

What I was trying to point out is that our lives take us in different directions than we plan to go sometimes.

Are men intimidated by successful women? Maybe. I don't know for sure.

Are men not interested in dating someone who would put them behind her own success? Well, duh. I can't think of anyone who would want to date someone who doesn't make them a priority.

Really, I think that meeting people for dating has more to do with attitude (you can't be desperately looking for someone else--people can sense that), confidence, and someone who is having fun at what they are doing. Anyone that is superserious all the time is going to be unapproachable, from a potential date to your boss to your crabby old uncle who never smiles.

I think there may be a few culture issues here as well. I've seen many first and second generation asians arrive in North America funded by their families. They do indeed feel an immense pressure to be successful as it relates to earning a large income just for the reasons you mentioned. Many other people do not have those pressures and thus define success in different terms.

talaniman agrees: I was getting that impression also, She has lot to do.

To Tal:

What do you mean I have lot to do? I hope you don't mean work,LOL. Do I need to change my culture difference?
Yep, I totally agree with NeedKarma, it is a culture difference here! It's just different, doesn't mean you are right I am wrong, vice versa.

No, no,no, there isn't a right and wrong, just a difference. The type of man for you may not be the type of man another woman is looking for. Same goes with dating styles - we all have different styles, granted some are toxic (dating abusers) but that is not the case here.

I always believe that as a woman you must be independent!
What happens when your husband leaves you, people change all the time, a man that says I LOVE you , could be talking to another young girl online. It's not that I won't trust my husband in the future, there is always uncertainty in life, things change, people change,a good career can be a necessary backup for women.

Yes, it is ture.
I always like an Asian woman.:D

Why is that? U like someone the way they are, not what race they are, right?

Anyone that is superserious all the time is going to be unapproachable, from a potential date to your boss to your crabby old uncle who never smiles.
LOL, I know what you mean. I smile all the time, but I try not do that too much around men, reduce unnessary attention. I kind of have this feeling that if I smile to guys constantly, they might mistake I am interested in them...

Nah, smiling just means you're a happy person. Why are you so incredibly worried that a guy might like you??

Nah, smiling just means you're a happy person. Why are you so incredibly worried that a guy might like you?????
It'd be trouble! Okay, when I was back in college, I hate it when guys asked me for numbers, because those who did, I was not interested in them although I smiled to them. It was tough, too tough, to reject anyone, I did but I don't think my way of rejection was well planned.-_-:

I smiled a lot, then I got unnecessary attention-u make men like you, women envy you. Life is already complicatd, and I am always free from all the drama, so I'd like to stay this way. I work in the real world, I know that it's not a smart thing when you get too much attention. My friends (guys)told me my smiles could kill a guy along with my eyes,LOL.( I don't really believe that, but they keep saying that). Now I smile a little bit to guys, more to women, that's just the way I find works better in real life.

She has lot to do.

You have many things in your life that you work hard to take care of is all. No knock at all from me. It does show your more than a pretty face.

You have many things in your life that you work hard to take care of is all. No knock at all from me. It does show your more than a pretty face.

My type of lady here!:p It's totally fine with me if she doesn't smile. It'd better when she pours a drink on me, heh, I LIKE THAT!:D

Originally Posted by talaniman
You have many things in your life that you work hard to take care of is all. No knock at all from me. It does show your more than a pretty face.

Talaniman, thank you. :)



My type of lady here!:p It's totally fine with me if she doesn't smile. It'd better when she pours a drink on me, heh, I LIKE THAT!:D

I don't really drink, how about pouring with a pot of hot jasmine tea, Jason?:D

Originally Posted by talaniman
You have many things in your life that you work hard to take care of is all. No knock at all from me. It does show your more than a pretty face.

Talaniman, thank you. :)




I don't really drink, how about pouring with a pot of hot jasmine tea, Jason?:D

Finally, I got you start talking to me:p

I am not a jerk, so don't be mad at me.:)

OK, For some reason the book The JOY LUCK CLUB comes to mind. Ever read it? It is about women whose mothers are from China and they are all suffering in some way from their mother's past or expectations, or life experiences. Life is interesting. You certainly put a lot of thought into how others perceive you. I say, live life according to your own standards, morals and beliefs. Just don't expect everyone else to, you will be disappointed. Yes, a woman should be self sufficient, able to provide for herself and educate herself for the sake of emotional and intellectual growth or stimulation. Education comes in many forms, life teaches us many lessons that you may never get in a classroom. I have an English Professor for a mother. My Professors in college were all her friends and colleagues. There was a lot of pressure to do well and perform at a high standard of excellence. Luckily, I liked my major and I did very well in Pre Law. HOWEVER, life doesn't always take the road you intended. Instead of going to Law School, I got pregnant with my son and withdrew my application. It was a choice I made, to give my son the time and energy I devoted to my daughter. This wasn't a mistake and I don't regret it. I have learned that I can still achieve my goals and dedicate myself to my family. I have a husband who provides well, but I do not depend on him to take care of me, does that make sense? I work now because I want to help provide. I will go back to school and still be the mom my kids need. I never thought to myself that I needed to be married to be happy or have a certain kind of degree and I have always seen myself as strong and assertive. I don't think life needs to be either/or as you have described. I have met many men who are intimidated by my personality and others who are impressed by it. If you have an image in your mind of what you are attracting and it is all negative, then that is what will be attracted to you. Instead of focusing on what you don't want in a person, focus on what you do want. As far as for smiling, I think it can make or break someone's day, but I don't think has as much control as you think. I think it is admirable of you to be responsible for your family and that is important. Just remember, life is about balance, about finding joy and accepting others as you do yourself. I don't have all the answers but I know that I am comfortable with who I am. That may seem intimidating to some, but then I can't control the way others see me. I can only focus on how I feel about myself. Good luck on your journey through life, don't be afraid to make connections with others, they don't have to ruin your life. You have your whole life to be successful in your career, it doesn't make you complete, it just compliments who you are.

Thanks for the compliment. You seem like a very bright and enthusiastic person and I hope life is full of many blessings for you. Don't ever be afraid to receive love, I promise it won't hurt, or take away from the essence of you... Be wise and intuitive in your choices. Peace!

Thanks for the compliment. You seem like a very bright and enthusiastic person and I hope life is full of many blessings for you. Don't ever be afraid to receive love, I promise it won't hurt, or take away from the essence of you...... Be wise and intuitive in your choices. Peace!!

Thank you for your wise response. I am loved by my family,my friends and coworkers. Love is all around! I never regret of being single and careful about my choices. I live my own way, nothing brings me down. I deeply believe that there will be A good man for me, who will appreciate all I have done and willing to take the responsibility with me for our future family. :)

<Evolutionarily, men do not want women who are more interested in work than having and looking after their kids, that is the basic way that women appeal to the man's animal instincts. They want their genes propagated.
>

That's a very good reply capuchin A man needs to be a hunter , provider.Awoman needs to let him do these things , ask for his help, and make him feel 'manly'

Many things have changed but this remains the same.
As long as women are trying to be men and vice-versa, the divorce rate will probably continue to rise.

<Evolutionarily, men do not want women who are more interested in work than having and looking after their kids, that is the basic way that women appeal to the man's animal instincts. They want their genes propagated.
>

Thats a very good reply capuchin A man needs to be a hunter , provider.Awoman needs to let him do these things , ask for his help, and make him feel 'manly'

Many things have changed but this remains the same.
As long as women are trying to be men and vice-versa, the divorce rate will probably continue to rise.

What if both of them are "manly"?:rolleyes:

Thats a very good reply capuchin A man needs to be a hunter , provider.Awoman needs to let him do these things , ask for his help, and make him feel 'manly'What exactly is the man hunting these days? A good deal on veal at the supermarket?

What exactly is the man hunting these days? A good deal on veal at the supermarket?

LOL, I was confused about that too. I only heard that guys like to hunt for girls.
I bet I do better on getting the deal on the veal than he does.

<What exactly is the man hunting these days?>

In my opinion a guy needs to win his girl , he needs to be the one to pursue her ,and in order to keep his interest she needs to keep being a challenge for him.

<What exactly is the man hunting these days?>

in my opinion a guy needs to win his girl , he needs to be the one to pursue her ,and in order to keep his interest she needs to keep being a challenge for him.

Good tip-keep being a challenge for him:)

AS long as women try to be men, the divorce rate will continue to rise? On what basis? What does that mean? I am not sure what "trying to be a man" means. Is there a rule book you are referring to somewhere? I don't think you can make such blanket statements about the entire institution of marriage with that remark. Maybe because people have more choices today. There isn't the stigma attached, that twenty or thirty years ago lingered with being divorced. At that time and before that, many people stayed in miserable marriages, or got married to begin with, because they thought that is what they were "supposed to do" . The fact that this isn't the case today probably has more to do with people getting divorced than you believing woman are "trying to be men" . I just don't agree.

Shatteredsoul]AS long as women try to be men, the divorce rate will continue to rise? On what basis? What does that mean? I am not sure what "trying to be a man" means. Is there a rule book you are referring to somewhere? I don't think you can make such blanket statements about the entire institution of marriage with that remark. Maybe because people have more choices today. There isn't the stigma attached, that twenty or thirty years ago lingered with being divorced. At that time and before that, many people stayed in miserable marriages, or got married to begin with, because they thought that is what they were "supposed to do" . The fact that this isn't the case today probably has more to do with people getting divorced than you believing woman are "trying to be men" . I just don't agree.

Trying to be a man means she is going to be the bread winner. I would be very uncomfortable about it, but if I love her to death, I wouldn't mind.

OK being uncomfortable with something is one thing, but justifying it as the reason the divorce rate continues to rise, is quite the slippery slope of an argument. Well ,maybe the fact that traditionally men were the bread winners does explain the changes that society has gone through, but we have gone through them before. When men went off to war during World War II, many companies needed people to fill their spots. Women were called to work in a variety of jobs that in the past had been considered "man"s work. Women did very well and in fact excelled at many of the positions they were put in. They even played baseball. Well, when the men came back, the women went back home, but it created an interest in working outside the home and a desire in many to excel in achieving a career, outside of being a housewife. How sad would it be if you knew that you limited yourself and your choices based on being a man? Or, if the choices you made prevented women from marrying you? Don't you think the stereotypes placed on people are what creates conflict and immoblizes us from making certain choices or from moving forward? If you were really good at something, and worked really hard to get there, but the fact you made more than your wife made her uncomfortable, wouldn't that be such a tragedy? Why not both be whatever you were meant to be, what does it mean? Her success is not a reflection of your failure. Can't everyone be their own success, and compliment each other? Why do things need to be black or white? If you loved her to death you wouldn't mind, would you marry her to begin with if you didn't love her to death? Just wondering..