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Bubbler
Jun 26, 2007, 02:20 PM
Does The Bible Support Tithing in This Present Kingdom Age of Grace? And does Tithing bring yourself personal gain and blessings?

Intrested to hear people's views on this !

Malachi 3:10
Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be
room enough to receive it.

Malachi 3:8
Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings

speechlesstx
Jun 26, 2007, 02:43 PM
Bubbler, I bet you're going to a wide spectrum of answers on this one. Personally I don't believe the NT supports tithing per se, but stewardship - of our time, our talents, our finances as we commit ourselves to Christ and his calling. I don't recall Jesus rejoicing in the tithe but rejoicing in the sacrifice and surrender. He condemned the "teachers of the law and Pharisees" for their strict tithing while having "neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness." Without the latter, the former means nothing.

The NT boils it down to "Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver." If you do that, give what you are led to give for the right reasons, God will bless you and the gift. But don't "give to get" - sometimes the blessing is just in knowing you've helped someone else. You can't buy that feeling for any amount of money.

Steve

Bubbler
Jun 26, 2007, 02:47 PM
Hi Steve thanks for your reply I look forwards to seeing the wide spectrum of answers that come in !

shygrneyzs
Jun 26, 2007, 03:55 PM
You know the Bible says you will reap what you sow. If you sow nothing, you get nothing. I do believe in the tithe. In the Old Testament it was stated to give a tenth of the spoils. You give to your Church or favorite ministry or mission, it is all to share what the Lord has blessed you with.

One can certainly give in the manner of their time for such things as teaching Sunday School, being involved in a Church ministry (some outreach), volunteering at a shelter or kitchen that feeds poor and homeless, doing some community service for an organization like Habitat for Humanity or delivering Meals on Wheels. So many ways to give our talents.

In the New Testament, Christ did have something's to say about tithing. In Matthew 23:23, He got after the scribes and their assorted hypocrites: "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgement, mercy, and faith:these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone."

In Luke 11:42, The Lord takes after the Pharisses again, chastizing them for tithing the mint and herbs, yet passing over the love of God. I could not find a specific verse or verses that state we are still instructed to tithe. When you read Hebrews 7 and how Christ was made, "after the power of endless life", does that mean the tithe was annulled? When you read verse 18, it could be seen that way. Reading further, when Christ overcame death, overcame the cross, Christ's blood on the cross became the ultimate tithe for us all (verse 27).

So debate that. I would like to hear other's thoughts on that one.

speechlesstx
Jun 26, 2007, 04:33 PM
Christ's blood on the cross became the ultimate tithe for us all

Hadn't really thought of it that way, but it is all the more reason to give sacrificially :)

Fr_Chuck
Jun 26, 2007, 07:30 PM
And for all those that believe it does, our church does except pay pal, all major credit cards and even cash if you have proper ID

But do I believe in give and you will become rich, NO, I don't believe a single one of Jesus's 12 ended up retiring on a ocean front property, expect maybe Paul if his jail cell had a ocean view.
We often confuse our idea of riches, and God's idea of riches.

Tessy777
Jun 26, 2007, 09:30 PM
Bubbler, I bet you're going to a wide spectrum of answers on this one. Personally I don't believe the NT supports tithing per se, but stewardship - of our time, our talents, our finances as we commit ourselves to Christ and his calling. I don't recall Jesus rejoicing in the tithe but rejoicing in the sacrifice and surrender. He condemned the "teachers of the law and Pharisees" for their strict tithing while having "neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness." Without the latter, the former means nothing.

The NT boils it down to "Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver." If you do that, give what you are led to give for the right reasons, God will bless you and the gift. But don't "give to get" - sometimes the blessing is just in knowing you've helped someone else. You can't buy that feeling for any amount of money.

Steve

Steve,

You are so right!! Very good. We are not under the law, therefore not under the tithe. I believe under Grace we should go beyond 10% if we can. But once again it is the motive that counts.

paraclete
Jun 26, 2007, 09:35 PM
This is perhaps one of the most misunderstood concepts in Christianity today. The reason is is misunderstood is that it is taught only from the perspective of that passage in Malachi without looking at what tithing really achieved for the Israelites.

To tithe to God expecting a blessing is to be doing this with the wrong motive. There are many indications of wrong motive in the Bible and you can't expect blessing if you do things for the wrong motive.

Nowhere can you justify the modern day idea that 10% of all earnings must be given to your local church. This is a complete nonsense. Tithing was not required of Christians in the early Church and only reinstitued several centuries after the Church was founded. Look at the requirements set down at Antioch in the Book of Acts, tithing is not among them.

The passage in Malachi used to justify tithing is referring to the third year tithe, the only tithe required to be brought into the local storehouse. The purpose of this tithe was to provide for charitable works. The tithes in other years were used to finance the mandatory attendance at the Temple in Jerusalem for the festivals that all were required to participate in. In Malachi God is calling his people to be faithfull to the whole of the Law in order that he may bless them. The Law is not required of the Christian. Jesus cancelled the written code replacing it with salvation by Faith in what he had achieved. Redemption through the blood.

The standard for the New Testament Christian is contained in 2 Corinthians 9
Generous giving and in that there is a promise of blessing but again it must be done with the right motive.

Bubbler
Jun 26, 2007, 11:42 PM
Thanks for your input I like the way you have looked past just the teachings and message of Malachi ;)

speechlesstx
Jun 27, 2007, 06:16 AM
And for all those that beleive it does, our church does except pay pal, all major credit cards and even cash if you have proper ID

Got to get that plug in whenever you can, lol.

Hope12
Jun 27, 2007, 07:42 AM
Hello Bubbler,

What is a tithe? Some say it is giving for religious purposes “a 10th of all you receive.” Though the manner of calculating the tithe varies from one religion to another, many ministers feel the need to promote tithing. But does God require you to tithe? It may come as a surprise to learn what the Bible says about it.

Tithing was part of a body of laws given by God through Moses to the ancient nation of Israel. Twelve tribes of Israel were required by law to support a 13th tribe, the priestly Levites, who had no land inheritance. This enabled the Levites to concentrate on the spiritual needs of the nation. Numbers 18:21-24

Being an agricultural people, the Israelites were not required to pay the tithe in cash. Rather, it was to come from the land’s produce and from the increase in livestock. If produce was to be tithed and an Israelite wanted to give money instead, then he had to pay 20 percent more than the value of the produce. Leviticus 27:30-33.

God’s command on tithing was a serious matter. If an Israelite mistakenly used for himself some of what he was going to tithe, then he had to make amends. How? By giving an extra 20 percent and offering up an animal sacrifice for his guilt. Leviticus 5:14-16

Though not every Israelite could share in the priesthood, everyone could share in the support of the priestly service through the tithe. All of this was included in God’s law on tithing. Therefore, it fitted the circumstances of that ancient people. But does it fit the circumstances of people today? More importantly, are Christians commanded to tithe?

A few years after the resurrection of Jesus, uncircumcised non-Jews were converted to Christianity. “It is necessary to circumcise them and charge them to observe the law of Moses,” some Jewish Christians contended. Acts 15:5

Others did not agree. So Jesus’ apostles and other experienced Christians met in Jerusalem to discuss the issue. They wanted to discern God’s will. Did he require Christ’s followers to keep the Law of Moses, which included tithing? Experiences were related showing a change in God’s dealings with non-Jews, and this was verified from God’s own prophetic Word. Acts 15:6-21 What was the decision?

The meeting came to a unanimous conclusion. Christians were not to be burdened with the Law of Moses. There were, though, a few “necessary things” that must be obeyed. Was tithing one? The inspired decision read:
“The holy spirit and we ourselves have favored adding no further burden to you, except these necessary things, to keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication.” Acts 15:25, 28, 29

Interestingly, God’s law on tithing was not listed among the “necessary things” for Christians.

Later, the apostle Paul explained that God’s Law covenant with Israel had been abolished by Jesus’ death. “[God] blotted out the handwritten document,” he said, “and He has taken it out of the way by nailing it with Jesus.Colossians 2:14 This does not mean that Christians have no law. Rather, there has been a change of law that now involves “the law of the Christ.” Galatians 6:2; Hebrews 7:12.
What guidance, then, do Christians have in the matter of giving? How much should you give?

Christian giving is voluntary. It takes into account that each individual has different circumstances in life. “If the readiness is there first,” the Bible says, “it is especially acceptable according to what a person has, not according to what a person does not have.”—2 Corinthians 8:12.

“Let each one do just as he has resolved in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.” 2 Corinthians 9:7

Tithing was a provision of the Mosaic Law covenant to support Israel’s temple and priesthood. For Christians today, it is neither commanded nor necessary.


Take care,
Hope12

Bubbler
Jun 27, 2007, 09:54 AM
Hope thanks for your input made for some valid intresting reading.

iamgreensleeves
Jun 27, 2007, 09:57 AM
Does The Bible Support Tithing in This Present Kingdom Age of Grace? And does Tithing bring yourself personal gain and blessings ??

Intrested to hear people's views on this !

Malachi 3:10
Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be
room enough to receive it.

Malachi 3:8
Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings
A question of "what will I get out of it?" to tithing is a bit like what will I get from mommy and daddy for Christmas if I only give them...

You tithe based on your faith. Don't tithe for the return.

Bubbler
Jun 27, 2007, 09:59 AM
A question of "what will I get out of it?" to tithing is a bit like what will I get from mommy and daddy for Christmas if I only give them...

You tithe based on your faith. Don't tithe for the return.


Does The Bible Support Tithing in This Present Kingdom Age of Grace? And does Tithing bring yourself personal gain and blessings?

Intrested to hear people's views on this !

Malachi 3:10
Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be
Room enough to receive it.

Malachi 3:8
Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings

Yes I agree with your point but I'm intreseted to hear people's views on the subject !

Marily
Jun 29, 2007, 12:02 AM
I believe that tithings could bring blessing, but what revelation does one have to only pay tithings to be blessed?

revray45
Jun 29, 2007, 06:46 AM
:) These answers are mind blowing. I see that a lot of people know about tithing, well not one answer was off point. Tithing is from the heart, from the mind and, sou. I believe somewere in the new testament GOD tells us that if while we are on are way too give at the alter and we remember that we have something against our brother that we should
Stop and go and make that right before we give. Well all of these answers are very defined
And I love it like I said if it's not from the heart no blessing will follow

tomder55
Jun 29, 2007, 07:39 AM
I can't add to what the other experts have said. My bottom line is :where is the virtue in charity if it is compelled ?

Tessy777
Jun 29, 2007, 08:39 AM
Too bad most churches don't preach this. I think they are afraid people won't give... but because this is the Lord's mind on the subject.. I believe they would give more. That is the difference between the Law and Grace.

Bubbler
Jun 29, 2007, 11:15 AM
:) These answers are mind blowing. I see that alot of people know about tithing, well not one answer was off point. Tithing is from the heart, from the mind and, sou.
Well all of these answers are very defined
and I love it like I said if it's not from the heart no blessing will follow

:) I agree fully that most people seems to have a good knowledge of the subject and there own view ! I agree with where you said Tithing is from the heart, from the mind and, sou. I like your out look on that ;)


Too bad most churches don't preach this. I think they are afriad people won't give...but because this is the Lord's mind on the subject..i believe they would give more. That is the difference between the Law and Grace.

Tessy777 another great answer:) , I think churches get sceared to preach the message of tithing because of the bad people out there that use the church or there meetings as a way of getting rich fast instead of doing it for all the correct reasons, but I guess we all know what happens to those people.


I guess to add a little part to the question as well, do you think Tithing will bring blessings to people that only do it for self gain ?? I have my own view but would be intrested to see what other people have too say !

Lacey5765
Jul 6, 2007, 05:28 PM
Malachi 3 8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.
9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation.
10 Bring ye all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be meat in mine house, and prove me now herewith, saith the LORD of hosts, if I will not open you the windows of heaven, and pour you out a blessing, that there shall not be room enough to receive it.

I know there will be those who will say "we are no longer under the laws of the Old Testament" I have read the threads but still don't agree.

To answer this thread: I give 10% of my income as a sign of gratitude for what the Lord has given me. It is all his anyway. I am just a steward of it.

Today I had an experience that goes along with this thread. Yesterday I withdrew money from my account to pay tithes this Sunday. I was concerned about my balance and upcoming bills but I felt like I needed to put the Lord first. So today I go to work and I was given a bonus for work done months ago. The amount was double the tithe! Now, I don't always receive a financial blessing and that isn't the point. Tithing is a way to show gratitude and faith. PS my tithes don't go to a paid ministry so no one "is getting rich" off my tithes. ( not that my small contribution could make anyone rich anyway) LOL

JonLR92
Jul 7, 2007, 12:15 AM
I do not think tithing ITSELF can cause blessings, but how you feel when you tith. For example a man who makes 500 a week, and while he takes out the 50 dollars for the tith he thinks man what I could use this money for... I'm sure God doesn't appreciate that, but a man who not only tiths yet gives more HAPPILY, God will have favor with him. I'm not saying to give more then 10% but when you tith to be glad and know what God has done for you and be sure about what you are doing.

Bubbler
Jul 8, 2007, 05:38 AM
Jon thanks for your comments

dreamguy
Jul 12, 2007, 09:47 PM
So is God going to put a curse on my finances if I don't give money to the church? I don't have any desire to give to an organization.

JonLR92
Jul 12, 2007, 10:56 PM
Remember God is just. If you have more then enough to give do it with joy, if you do have but refuse to well its up to you. God is love but also a consuming fire.

dw1
Jul 18, 2007, 05:58 PM
There is one aspect of this topic that frequently gets overlooked within the biblical arguments.

And that is the Holy Spirit.
"Of myself I can do nothing, what I see the Father doing, that I do also"
"If ye are led by the Spirit, ye are not under the law"
"I came not to destroy, but to fulfill the law"

The NT contains over 250 references to the Holy Spirit.
Apparently, HE was an integral part of their everyday life.
"It seemed good to us and the Holy Spirit"
"And the Holy Spirit forbade them to go into the city"

How did we get the gift of the indwelling Holy Spirit?
It is the gift of God, brought to us by the NEW covenant, paid for by Jesus' blood.
He rent the veil of the Holy of Holies for us to have it.

Think about the wonderful things that Jesus fulfills by the Spirit, in the New Covenant:
- Jesus is the TRUE blood on the doorpost
- Jesus is the TRUE sacrificial lamb
- Jesus gave us the TRUE baptism
- We, his body, are the TRUE temple
- He who is a TRUE Jew is one inwardly
- The TRUE circumcision is of the heart

What if we taught that the only blood on the doorpost is the OT one?
Or how about the only sacrificial lamb is the OT one?
Or how about the only temple is the OT one?
Or how about the only circumcision is the OT one?
Or how about the only Jerusalem is the OT one?

Can you see who is really getting robbed here?
It is the sincere Christian who wants to please God.
He is being robbed of the TRUE tithe.
Isn't it odd that we are told that there is only ONE lingering thing from the OT that doesn't find its fulfillment in Christ, and therefore must be practiced by the letter of the word, as an OT ordinance?
Hmmmmm... what a coincidence!
And what is worse, is those teachers totally ignore God's dictates to the OT priesthood about owning property and not having salaries. While they give themselves a very wide road, they hold God's people to a narrow one.

And what about the rich young ruler? Did he tithe?
Yup! "ALL these things have I done from my youth"
What did he turn down? Following the shepherd's voice.

Would the Holy Spirit lead a believer to financially support a worker of iniquity?
Absolutely not! But Christians who tithe simply to honor an OT dictate do every day.
How many workers of iniquity did Jesus say there would be? "MANY"
You and I don't know who they are, but the Holy Spirit sure does.

When you exercise grace giving, by the leading of the Holy Spirit, HE will bring you into a whole new realm of walking in God, which will effectively explode every aspect of your life. Not just money.
That's the real reason your enemy wants you to keep you giving according to the letter.
Oh... and the workers of iniquity like it too.

dreamguy
Jul 18, 2007, 06:05 PM
Pastors are not going to get one dime of my hard earned money. NEVER!

lexa3749
May 31, 2012, 02:59 PM
In the New Testament tithing has been replaced with giving. However; God's Word never changes. Why would he lie?

lexa3749
May 31, 2012, 03:11 PM
Also, the Lord says "test me in this, or try Me now in this." We have to believe Jesus Christ is the same today, yesterday, and forever.

paraclete
May 31, 2012, 05:49 PM
A lot of taking Scripture ot of context here, make a study of the whole of Sccripture on this subject and dreamguy remember you reap what you sow, if you sow nothing you will reap nothing

classyT
May 31, 2012, 08:43 PM
Totally changed my position on the topic since 2007. Abraham tithed and that was before the law. Yes, I think that giving the Lord 10% WILL cause the Lord to bless you. I do NOT believe we HAVE to or we are in disobedience if we do not.

dw1
Jun 2, 2012, 09:41 AM
Here are the facts about NT Tithing:
1) Tithing is advanced as a NT truth and practice ONLY by those who *solicit funds*.
2) You will not find an internationally recognized bible scholar who will agree with NT Tithing.
3) Tithing was not carried forward by the early church Apostles
4) Tithing was not practiced by the POST Apostolic church
5) Tithing was introduced as a practice by the church of Rome, in Europe during the industrial age. The reason for this was because the church owned vast quantities of farm lands upon which people were living, and were paying 10% of the yearly produce as a *land-tax*. But as the industrial age progressed, people abandoned farming for employment opportunities within the cities. Thus the church’s revenues decreased significantly, and in order to meet demands for expansion tithing was introduced.
6) The church of England patterned its Ecclesiology (ministerial hierarchies) and its Orthopraxy, (membership requirements) after the pattern designed by the church of Rome. Thus tithing was picked up by Protestantism along with many other practices which have their genesis in the church of Rome.

Gordon Fee: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Fee, calls the teaching of NT tithing *Shameful*
Here is Russel Kelly: http://www.tithing-russkelly.com/
Check out any internationally recognized bible encyclopedia or other scholarly material and you will see the above facts are confirmed.
That being said, God is a loving Father. And anyone who gives in child-like sincerity will be blessed by Him, based solely upon the condition of the heart, not upon a financial formula.
"I tell you the truth," Jesus said, "this poor widow has put in more than all the others!” Luke 21:3
But a loving Father would be saddened to see his children locked in permanent infancy.
So that we may no longer be children, tossed to and fro by the waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by human cunning, by craftiness in deceitful schemes. Eph 4:14

classyT
Jun 3, 2012, 07:27 PM
I don't believe nor can I find any teaching in the NT that we must tithe. Having said that dw1, how do you explain the tithe being introduced to Abraham BEFORE the Law? Is there something there the Lord is showing us? After all we( that is all who are in Chirst) are of abraham's seed. What say you?

dw1
Jun 4, 2012, 11:38 AM
Hi ClassyT

You raise a good question, and scholars do have a few responses that I can recall.

Typically, they follow these lines:

The Genesis narrative indicates that Abraham was a very wealthy man who obtained his wealth prior to, as well as after he gave the provision of a tithe to Melchizedek.
This fact would seem to invalidate the assertion that tithing has always been God's designed mechanism for financial blessings.

The narrative also indicates that during the whole of Abraham's life, he only tithed once.
This fact would imply that Abraham did not recognize tithing as a practice which he directly correlated as pleasing to God, or as having significance in his relationship with God, or as having significance to the blessings he received from God.

Taking these things into consideration, one is left to assume that Abraham gave a portion of his spoils from that single war as a “thank you” to God, and perhaps as a way to show his desire to honor God through Melchizedek.

Later in the OT, as you rightfully indicate, God does signify tithing as a means of His blessings to the people of Israel (the Malachi narrative). But that was only half of God's requirement. The other half was His requirement to the Levitical priesthood, that they were to not take to themselves any ownership of properties or animals, which in those days were the primary provision of life sustenance. “God was to be their portion”.

As you can see, tithing as it is taught today is a process of strategically “cherry-picking” OT scripture to obtain a strategic end. Ministries today, put forward the duty of OT tithing to an unsuspecting audience, while they silently side-step God's mandate which He specifically gave along with the OT tithe in order to ensure equality, and guard against ministerial abuse.

As you can see, we have plenty of ministries today who follow the example of the high priests “Annas” and “Chaifas” living in million-dollar palaces, having large gardens and servants, obtained by monies extracted from God's people. BTW: The reason there were two high-priests during the Gospel period is because Annas and “Chaifas” were hand picked as “yes-men” for Rome. They were to operate in public as representatives of God, while they secretly swore allegiance to the interests of Rome.
According to God's dictate, there was only to be one high-priest. But Rome had not yet developed a trust for Chaifas during the time of Jesus' ministry. Rome therefore allowed Chaifas to be high-priest in name only, until they were confident he could be trusted. By this time in Jewish history, the high-priests obtained their office by bribery and by secretly pledging elegance to Rome. This information can be found in F.F. Bruce's research on Jewish history. And Jewish encyclopedia.com confirms it as well. So we see, ministerial deceitfulness reaches its apex just prior to the N.T. period. So one can discover ministries following in the footsteps of Annas and Chaifas, if one knows what to look for.

An additional thought to ponder in the business of NT tithing is whether the Clergy Laity dichotomy, as it currently exists within institutional Christianity is the design of the Holy Spirit, or was designed by man. Personally, I am convinced; the current Clergy Laity system is operating in defiance of the original NT design of a corporate ministry which we see exemplified in the NT writings.
It was never God's intent that ministry would be considered a form of employment. Nor that ministry would be considered a professional carrier. These distinctions were later added, first by the introduction of the “Monarchy” as a church office.

There are scholars who have long held that the “NT priesthood of believers” as designed by the Holy Spirit in the early church has been strategically distorted into a *class system* where organizational ordination is the requirement. The early church held spiritual maturity as the sole requirement for ministry. If you remove the *class system* and return to the original design, OT tithing becomes an irrelevancy. Which is basically what the church followed up until the Roman empire changed from being a military empire to a religious empire. But even then, with the advent of the “monarchical episcopate”, tithing did not exist until about 800 A.D.

Hope this finds you well! 

jakester
Jun 5, 2012, 09:09 AM
dw1 - good post and very insightful.

I'd like to submit that even before this question gets off the ground, it assumes tithing is a practice for the believer today. I disagree with that starting assumption.

The tithe outlined in the Old Testament law included a lawful, obligatory giving to the priesthood that God had ordained through the covenant. People were required to give a “tithe” to priests much in the same manner that we are required to pay our federal and state taxes. The tithe in Israel consisted of a portion of people's wealth set aside for the priests, who were required to officiate in the performance of their priestly duties and could not make a living outside of this office to which they were called by God. Under the Old Testament law the Israelites lived under a theocracy where God was their king and the priests were the mediators between the people and God. The priests collected the tithes and used the money for various things like dividing the money for the Levites themselves, the various feasts, and for the poor. However, the amount that the people were obligated to pay amounted to more than 10% but was probably closer to something like 23% because it appears that God had divided up tithes into different categories to be taken at key times throughout the year.

However, a careful reading of the Old Testament sections concerning tithes will reveal that beyond what was required in the tithe, there was such a thing as a free-will offering. For this, there was no law. The people were required to pay their tithes for the sake of the Levites, the observances of the feasts and for the poor. The people were obligated to give these tithes under the covenant and I'm arguing that it is very similar to our personal income taxes that we pay today as well as the taxation that all persons were subject to under the Roman rule, including Jesus. But when it came to giving something to God out of personal thankfulness or a joyful or glad heart, God was not requiring a set amount. It was up to the individual whether he or she wanted to give at all and how much he or she wanted to give. Similar to dw1, I believe that was the spirit behind Abraham's giving…out of a thankful heart in light of the spoils gained from war. But that was not required of him and I don't get the impression that the text is trying to convey a practice to be followed from Abraham's example…it's just a fact of what he did.

Also, with respect to the law, if we are to observe tithing and command it as a rule to be followed, we need to bring back the Levitical priesthood, the sacrifices, and subject ourselves to the entire Law of Moses. We can't pick which parts to follow, because the Law was to be kept in its entirety: stone your neighbor when he blasphemes God, stone your children when they dishonor you, etc. I don't think any of us are prepared to go back to that.

Incidentally, I'd say that given the plethora of charlatans out there, we need not feel obligated to fill the empty, outstretched hand of someone claiming to be sent from God. I think in the manner in which we ought to scrutinize and test the spirits to see whether they be from God doctrinally, we ought to do the same with money and what we choose to invest in. I'm not saying that if we invest in something that proves to be evil that we have done evil; I think our intention is what matters. But we ought to have wisdom about what we decide to give to. To that end, I don't know that when we give it ought to be with the expectation that we get something back from God…I question that kind of spirit because as I have seen it go, it is usually motivated by wrong desires. It's like James says “When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures.” To me, even asking this question “Can tithing cause blessings?”, could suggest a wrong motive. It doesn't demand a wrong motive, but it is at least curious…why even ask the question? Giving money to God with the expectation of getting a blessing in return is akin to asking God for something with the wrong motivation. I'm not saying the OP is guilty of that, but I think it is worth examining our motivations in light of giving.

dw1
Jun 5, 2012, 11:59 AM
A beautiful post jakester!

Very well said!!

Jesus teaches that we are not to give for the sake of getting on the sermon on the mount.
Quid pro quo is a principle that is fundamental in a human's collaboration with the demonic realm.
Jesus teaches us that our relationship with Him is completely different than that!

Thanks :)