Good day all, I hope somebody can offer a quick piece of advice. I had my very first plumbing inspection this morning, and the inspector told me I'd have a problem venting two basement fixtures with the configuration I had.

I'm attaching drawings to illustrate.

So, he said with what I have now, the basement sink would not vent properly via the roof vent that extends from the kitchen sink. He said I'd need a studor vent for it, and another one for the washer.

But then he said something about the kitchen waste connecting "below" the connection point for the basement sink. I asked him what that meant but he simply said it again, that the waste needs to connect below the vent point. He was in a hurry and I thought I understood, but now that I've drawn it out, I'm not so sure.

Does this mean the T connection for the basement sink should be below its studor valve height? Does anyone know what he might mean? Can anyone look at my "proposed" drawing and see any flaws with it?

I really appreciate any help. As with any big city, contacting the inspector to ask for clarification is a bit difficult, if not impossible.

Thanks again,

James

[QUOTE=jamlove]Good day all, I hope somebody can offer a quick piece of advice. I had my very first plumbing inspection this morning, and the inspector told me I'd have a problem venting two basement fixtures with the configuration I had.

I'm attaching drawings to illustrate.

So, he said with what I have now, the basement sink would not vent properly via the roof vent that extends from the kitchen sink. He said I'd need a studor vent for it, and another one for the washer.

But then he said something about the kitchen waste connecting "below" the connection point for the basement sink. I asked him what that meant but he simply said it again, that the waste needs to connect below the vent point. He was in a hurry and I thought I understood, but now that I've drawn it out, I'm not so sure.

Does this mean the T connection for the basement sink should be below its studor valve height? Does anyone know what he might mean? Can anyone look at my "proposed" drawing and see any flaws with it?

I really appreciate any help. As with any big city, contacting the inspector to ask for clarification is a bit difficult, if not impossible.

Thanks again,

James

Good morning James,

With the possible exception of the "S" trap you have drawn for the utility sink in the "existing" drawing,( And I don't really think the sink is "S"trapped) I can see nothing wrong with the vents as they are. Is the utility sink really tied in lower then the washer? The two basement fixtures are vented by a vent that's washed down by the kitchen sink. In my area it would pass.
The inspector doesn't like the idea of the two basement fixtures being "wet vented" so he first wanted to add a mechanical vent to each of the basement fixtures. He then changed his mind and proposed that you rerun the kitchen drain to connect below the tie in point of the lowest basement fixture, allowing the washer and sink a individual vent. This would cause the kitchen sink to be revented back into the roof vent a foot over the flood rim of the kitchen sink. In my book that's lots of work to accomplish nothing that you didn't have before. A drainage system that's vented.
Unless your local codes call for each fixture to have its own vent,( pick up a copy of the local code at your building department) I would challenge the inspectors call. Please keep me in the loop in this matter. Yours is the kind of question I like to follow to the end. Regards, Tom

[QUOTE=jamlove]Good day all, I hope somebody can offer a quick piece of advice. I had my very first plumbing inspection this morning, and the inspector told me I'd have a problem venting two basement fixtures with the configuration I had.

I'm attaching drawings to illustrate.

So, he said with what I have now, the basement sink would not vent properly via the roof vent that extends from the kitchen sink. He said I'd need a studor vent for it, and another one for the washer.

But then he said something about the kitchen waste connecting "below" the connection point for the basement sink. I asked him what that meant but he simply said it again, that the waste needs to connect below the vent point. He was in a hurry and I thought I understood, but now that I've drawn it out, I'm not so sure.

Does this mean the T connection for the basement sink should be below its studor valve height? Does anyone know what he might mean? Can anyone look at my "proposed" drawing and see any flaws with it?

I really appreciate any help. As with any big city, contacting the inspector to ask for clarification is a bit difficult, if not impossible.

Thanks again,

james

Good morning James,

With the possible exception of the "S" trap you have drawn for the utility sink in the "existing" drawing,( And I don't really think the sink is "S"trapped) I can see nothing wrong with the vents as they are. Is the utility sink really tied in lower then the washer? The two basement fixtures are vented by a vent that's washed down by the kitchen sink. In my area it would pass.
The inspector doesn't like the idea of the two basement fixtures being "wet vented" so he first wanted to add a mechanical vent to each of the basement fixtures. He then changed his mind and proposed that you rerun the kitchen drain to connect below the tie in point of the lowest basement fixture, allowing the washer and sink a individual vent. This would cause the kitchen sink to be revented back into the roof vent a foot over the flood rim of the kitchen sink. In my book that's lots of work to accomplish nothing that you didn't have before. A drainage system that's vented.
Unless your local codes call for each fixture to have its own vent,( pick up a copy of the local code at your building department) I would challenge the inspectors call. Please keep me in the loop in this matter. Yours is the kind of question I like to follow to the end. regards, Tom
... the inspector is concerned about the lower fixtures venting properly when the upper fixtures are draining (in use)? This looks to me like his 'beef'. Also explains why adding the local inside vents would appease him!

Thanks for the replies!

Yes, the inspector did say "the basement sink won't drain when this kitchen waste pipe is full of water." I thought to myself that it'd almost never happen, since I'm the only person in the house! But for future considerations, I understand his point I guess.

In my drawing I completely forgot to add measurements, I apologize. The horizontal line, from the kitchen dropdown to the vertical section in the basement, is about 12 feet. So I think that's too long of a wet vent, no?

At any rate, I agree that adding two studor vents should be more than sufficient. There's nothing in our local code that says each fixture must have its own vent or anything like that.

I'll get this new work completed this weekend, have the guy come back next week, and update this posting. Thanks again!

- james

Thanks for the replies!

Yes, the inspector did say "the basement sink won't drain when this kitchen waste pipe is full of water." I thought to myself that it'd almost never happen, since I'm the only person in the house! But for future considerations, I understand his point I guess.

In my drawing I completely forgot to add measurements, I apologize. The horizontal line, from the kitchen dropdown to the vertical section in the basement, is about 12 feet. So I think that's too long of a wet vent, no?

At any rate, I agree that adding two studor vents should be more than sufficient. There's nothing in our local code that says each fixture must have its own vent or anything like that.

I'll get this new work completed this weekend, have the guy come back next week, and update this posting. Thanks again!

- james
... should never make an exception based on the word of a homeowner or a contractor/builder but will always follow the book. Speedball1 (Tom) can comment on the distance of the horizontal run but chances are it is not a problem because the upper fixtures are vented well before the 5' horizontal drain limit and so are the lower fixtures if you look at them from the basement perspective and not the upstairs. I agree that the venting and draining would be OK and probably even yet OK if used at the same time assuming one is not left on and unattended (the downstairs) while one or both of the upstairs fixtures are experiencing heavy use.

Good morning James,

"In my drawing I completely forgot to add measurements, I apologize. The horizontal line, from the kitchen dropdown to the vertical section in the basement, is about 12 feet. So I think that's too long of a wet vent, no?"
" Speedball1 (Tom) can comment on the distance of the horizontal run"

My comment on this is the 12 foot run isn't a "wet vent", it's a lateral drain line that would have to be 4 inches in diameter to even fall close to code. However, I'm a great believer in, " If it works, why change it?"
Inspectors and the code writers look for the worst case scenario,(no matter how far out) and attempt to anticipate it. Case in point are the backflow preventers that are code on all our new construction. How many times have you heard of a utilities water system going down and setting up a vacuum in the mains that could pull dirty water back into a house system from a hose left with the open end laying in a mud puddle? Never? Me too. But the planners say it could happen so that adds a few hundred bucks to the cost of installation.
But the planners didn't look ahead far enough. What they failed to foresee was that in installing back flow preventers they set up a closed system in the house water piping. This meant that as the water in the water heater got hot and expanded it had no place to go but out the T&P valve on the heater.
We endeed up with a rash of, " Our water heater's leaking, do I need a new one?" calls. Go figure! Inspectors and inspections are necessary to insure against shoddy work and bad health condititions but, in my opinion, sometimes they go too far in protecting us. Just a observation. Tom

Guys, again many thanks for the input. I thought you'd enjoy hearing how my weekend went.

As I mentioned earlier, the inspector failed me because I had tied my new stuff into existing 1 1/2" pipe, which was also not configured for proper ventilation. Code here calls for 2" waste pipe after a kitchen group, so that was something I'd have to correct regardless of configuration.

When the inspector was there he said "it was never legal to put less than 2" under a slab, so you should be able to tie in right there at the floor, that should be 2" pipe." Well, clearly he didn't know my home's previous owners!

So I removed all the old work, all the way to the floor, and discovered it was 1 1/2", and was VERY corroded and blocked up. Definitely not something I could use. Since the main sewer connection is all the way on the other side of the house, I decided to bust up the floor and find where that 1 1/2 emptied to, and use that.

A concrete saw, jackhammer, pickaxe and 6 hours later, I found it. 4" clay pipe! It was about 3 feet from the wall, out in the yard. Some genius had stuffed this inch and a half galvanized into a 4" sewer drain.

This turned out to be a pleasant surprise, since I've been wanting a downstairs bathroom but didn't know where i could tie it on! So my project has multiplied in size by about 20... I connected new pipe to that nice 4", broke a bigger hole in the wall and floor, and have laid everything out for a new bathroom.

This new group will get its own 2" vent through the roof, and I'll tie the existing laundry and washbasin into that 3" stack. I'm learning lots of new things, and it's exciting. Visited the permits office this morning and added all these new fixtures to my existing permit.

I feel really good about the new drainage for the kitchen... I DEFINITELY would've had major headaches if I'd've left that old stuff. So in this case, the inspection failure did me a huge favor. So what's another 3 weeks of work, so long as I get it right!

Thanks again and I'm sure I'll be back on this site often!

- james
Seattle, WA