A couple of liberal voices capable of engaging in serious, thoughtful discussions on the issues of the day. I often wonder if such people really exist.

"The deepest sin against the human mind is to believe something without evidence." Aldous Huxley

Don't ask me. I am one of the most (classical) liberal persons in my circle acquaintances.

How is classical liberalism defined?

Found on the web. "Classical liberalism is a political-philosophical doctrine that advocates individual freedom, limited government, and free markets."

I see what you mean. I would put myself in that camp as well. Sadly, the modern pack of liberals are far removed from that.

You have taught me something this morning. "It differs from modern liberalism in its emphasis on laissez-faire economics and its view of the government as a necessary evil." I have known that liberalism is not what it used to be but had never bothered to see what it used to be.

You know I refused to answer a similar question when Athos asked me to define socialism . That is because there is no short answer and any answer I would've given would've been incomplete and have holes easily attacked .

That being said ; classical liberallism was the philosopy of the founding of the US

It's common themes are free market ; close to laisse fare ....limited government interference in the market ;individual liberty ;property rights ,minimal government intrusion in the affairs of the individual .

Wealth is not derived from the government but from the free economic exchanges of the people . Government power comes from the people , Rights are not derived from the government Governments are only established to protect rights. Rights are natural (not derived by humans ) .
Governments are bound by the rule of laws that are created by the people .

To understand it further one has to understand the economic and political philosophies of the Enlightenment thinkers like John Locke ;Adam Smith and perhaps Immanual Kant (as well as the American founders like Jefferson )

But it gets more complicated because not all the Enlightenment thinkers held values I share . Some elevated humans too much and like Rousseau thought human nature basically good . He thought humans equal and inequalities are artificial constructs that governments needed to correct .

To get more detailed would require an essay's worth of writing .

Today's "liberals " are in my view illiberal They have coopted the word . To simplify it too much it comes down to rights . Classical liberals think of rights as what are called 'negative rights' ..... Rights someone has from the government .
Today's "liberals " aka progressives believe in rights the government must do for people ;like universal income .

I'm still keeping an eye on things, but more participants would be good..

You know I refused to answer a similar question when Athos asked me to define socialism . That is because there is no short answer and any answer I would've given would've been incomplete and have holes easily attacked .As an economic theory it's pretty straightforward, but it does seem to go beyond that with political implications.

It is well beyond an economic theory and has it's roots at least as far as Plato's collectivism . And like Plato's political philosophy ;society is ruled by an elite group of decision makers . He believed in rule by philosophers.


For Plato, as for Solon, government exists for the benefit of all citizens and all social classes, and must mediate between potentially conflicting interests. Such a mediating force is exercised in the ideal city of the Republic by the philosopher-rulers.

Plato: Political Philosophy | Internet Encyclopedia of Philosophy (utm.edu) (https://iep.utm.edu/platopol/)

As Orwell notes the utopian ideal gets replaced by the pig rulers .

. And like Plato's political philosophy ;society is ruled by an elite group of decision makers . He believed in rule by philosophers.Technically, an oligarchy.