First brought up here and referenced in other comments .

The abnormal has become the new normal. - Page 8 (askmehelpdesk.com) (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=850610&page=8&p=3890557#post3890557)

The company has tried desperately to get back it's market share . This week it is doing a promo that is basically a give-away .
Bud Light Offers Rebate for July Fourth, Basically Free Beer | Entrepreneur (https://www.entrepreneur.com/business-news/bud-light-offers-rebate-for-july-fourth-basically-free-beer/454965)

Still no one is "buying it "

Bud Light sales sink 28% heading into July 4 holiday (nypost.com) (https://nypost.com/2023/07/03/bud-light-sales-sink-28-heading-into-july-4-holiday/)

Dylan Mulvany is actually complaining that the company doesn't have his back .

Dylan Mulvaney says Bud Light never reached out to her amid backlash : NPR (https://www.npr.org/2023/06/30/1185356673/trans-influencer-dylan-mulvaney-bud-light-backlash)

He says transformers drink beer too.
I bet they are drinking Modelo too

Bud Light loses its title as America's top-selling beer to Modelo Especial | CNN Business (https://www.cnn.com/2023/06/14/business/bud-light-modelo-top-selling-may-sales/index.html)

Me ...I drink Samuel Adams

I feel sorry for the workers who are losing their jobs over this fiasco.

Hundreds Lose Their Jobs At Glass Plant That Made Bottles For Bud Light: Report | The Daily Wire (https://www.dailywire.com/news/hundreds-lose-their-jobs-at-glass-plant-that-made-bottles-for-bud-light-report?utm_medium=email&utm_source=cnemail&seyid=75215)

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/302009613_1258738124890723_8125575429767226138_n.j pg?stp=dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=108&cb=99be929b-3346023f&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=5Ag2alb6k7AAX8JW-7s&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-1.xx&oh=00_AfAifv-ILDRovCSEIhuoRv9DyFJNubyrDlzh_2b3hEH-GQ&oe=64AF6BA6

Who knows? Perhaps this is the point at which the left has gone too far with it's insane lunacy.

Why "insane lunacy"?

(Speaking of insane lunacy, it's means it is. You want to use the possessive its in this case.)

Men cannot just become women. It's craziness.

Men cannot just become women. It's craziness.
Even you could become one. And it's not "just"; it often takes three or more years, starting out with gender counseling.

And women can become men. Ellen Page meet Eliot Page!

It's a mental illness...a fantasy. It's like suggesting a person can become a cat. An idea, by the way, which has been accepted by a number of people. People believe all sorts of things. Their belief does not make it so.

Nope, not mental illness. If your pregnant mother or her doctor had "blessed" you with an overabundance of estrogen, I'd be calling you Johnette.

Please don't start that again. You have been shown repeatedly that it is an absurd idea. Those DES doses haven't taken place in many decades, and even then there is but scant evidence that it had anything to do with the TG issue. If you insist on pushing that argument, even when you have been shown repeatedly that it is idiotic, then I'll let you chant that mantra to someone else. It's why I try to avoid discussions with you. You are the classic ideologue. You never learn.

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=850024&page=4&p=3891871#post3891871

One more time. This is from a very TG site. Even they can find no evidence of DES leading to TG. Note that there are several possible problems found in the children of DES mothers, but nothing has been found to support the TG idea, so the author is reduced to having to refer to a "strong suspicion". In other words, we would like for that to be so, but we have no evidence at all to support it.


In 1971, it was found that DES sometimes created a rare vaginal tumor called “clear cell carcinoma” — not in the women who took the medication, but in girls and women who had been exposed to Diethylstilbestrol years earlier while they were in their mothers’ wombs, when they were embryos and fetuses.
DES was also found to increase the rate of breast cancers in women who took the drug.
The U.S. Food and Drug Administration quickly removed its approval for use in pregnant women that year.
Children of women who took Diethylstilbestrol during their pregnancy are often called “DES daughters” and “DES sons.”
DES daughters have a higher rate of abnormalities of their reproductive tract, some forms of cancer, and are at a higher risk of pregnancy complications.
DES sons have a higher rate of testicular cancer, infertility and urogenital abnormalities.
There is also a strong suspicion by many researchers that exposure to DES before birth might cause transgender identity.



Although there is no research that shows that males or females exposed to progesterone in the womb or other estrogenic drugs, such as diethylstilbestrol (DES) may have a raised risk of gender dysphoria; there may be an association in some atypical aspects of gender role behavior.

https://www.news-medical.net/health/Causes-of-Gender-Dysphoria.aspx

I'm not talking about DES, although that was the thing from the '30s to the '70s that jump-started transitioning. Even Mother Nature herself is guilty of tossing in extra estrogen (or testosterone) during a pregnancy. This isn't a perfect world anymore, Johnette! And the DES thing is real (no one has "shown me repeatedly"), but only one way a fetus got sloshed with estrogen. And it still happens -- too much estrogen or testosterone during fetal development can affect gender.

I just showed you above AGAIN. DES HAS NOT BEEN APPROVED FOR USE IN PREGNANT WOMEN SINCE 1971. HELLO!!!

If you can find anything other than your own utterly non-scientific opinion on your idea, then we can continue. Otherwise, I leave it to everyone else to see the falseness of your contention. If you were willing to learn even a little bit, it would help a great deal.

I do not at all wish to come across as mean towards you. I don't know how to handle someone who insists that 2+2=6. It seems impossible to help you see rational truth. Evidently someone will need to do it, because I don't know how. But I do wish you the absolute best.

"The bodies of all embryos start off as female. However, embryos that are biological males generally produce hormones that change their appearance to male. Thus, an ultrasound test on a ten-week-old embryo can often tell whether she or he is a biologically female or male.

In contrast, major neuron development in the brain of the fetus starts much later in pregnancy, in the middle of the second trimester.
Thus, during pregnancy, there are some processes early on that determine a person’s biological sex and their anatomical design.

However, the processes that develop the brain occur much later, in the second and third trimester. This introduces the possibility that some processes at different times during pregnancy can result in the birth of a new-born with a male body and a female brain or vice versa."
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/religioustolerance/2018/01/des-transgender/


I do not at all wish to come across as mean towards you. I don't know how to handle someone who insists that 2+2=6. It seems impossible to help you see rational truth. Evidently someone will need to do it, because I don't know how. But I do wish you the absolute best.
I know exactly how you feel, Johnette.


I just showed you above AGAIN. DES HAS NOT BEEN APPROVED FOR USE IN PREGNANT WOMEN SINCE 1971. HELLO!!!

If you can find anything other than your own utterly non-scientific opinion on your idea, then we can continue. Otherwise, I leave it to everyone else to see the falseness of your contention. If you were willing to learn even a little bit, it would help a great deal.

I am not talking about DES, Johnette!!!

This has been going on since ancient times, a male body having a female brain -- or vice versa. Indigenous peoples even had a name for this.

"The bodies of all embryos start off as female. However, embryos that are biological males generally produce hormones that change their appearance to male. Thus, an ultrasound test on a ten-week-old embryo can often tell whether she or he is a biologically female or male.

In contrast, major neuron development in the brain of the fetus starts much later in pregnancy, in the middle of the second trimester.
Thus, during pregnancy, there are some processes early on that determine a person’s biological sex and their anatomical design.

However, the processes that develop the brain occur much later, in the second and third trimester. This introduces the possibility that some processes at different times during pregnancy can result in the birth of a new-born with a male body and a female brain or vice versa."Thank you for posting material which does nothing at all to prove your point. Please learn the meaning of "possibility" and "can". Used in conjunction, they mean that there is no evidence at all to lead to that conclusion. It's just basic conjecture. And note that there was no mention whatsoever of your imaginary "sloshed with estrogen" idea. Even you can't support it. As I have said, you are a poster child for an ideologue. You are letting your conclusion chase after evidence. That's backwards. I do realize, however, that you really have no choice since there is no evidence to support your claim. Oh well.

I do realize, however, that you really have no choice since there is no evidence to support your claim. Oh well.
Prove me wrong.

It is up to you to prove yourself correct. You made the unsupportable post about estrogen and TG. Now see if you can back it up. Note: You cannot.

Besides, I have already posted A LOT to disprove your idea. Read them.

You can start here. https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showpost.php?p=3892258&postcount=10

You would really, really be well-served to simply admit you have an idea that might be proven true in the future, but which at present has no support.

1. We all begin as female. Something happens to change some of us to male. What happens?

That does absolutely nothing to support your estrogen/TG idea. I hope that means you have abandoned it as well you should.

As to what happens, read your own post. "However, embryos that are biological males generally produce hormones that change their appearance to male. Thus, an ultrasound test on a ten-week-old embryo can often tell whether she or he is a biologically female or male."

BTW, the "we all begin as females" idea is a highly questionable one.

https://www.invitra.com/en/faqs/do-all-human-fetuses-begin-as-female/

Humans are born with two arms . If someone is born with one ;none ;or three that is a rare abnormality defect. That doesn't mean humans are not two armed animals.

Exceptions don’t invalidate the rule.

Males produce sperm Women produce eggs . Those are the only two possibilities Males cannot produce eggs Women cannot produce sperm . Every person alive today is the product of the joining of sperm and egg and to my knowledge no human has been born without the intercourse of the sperm and egg There is no exception to that even though it is true that some humans are born with deformities.
Sex is binary is a scientific fact

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F0njkKoakAAICnI?format=jpg&name=small

Your brain says, "I'm female" and, at the same time, your body says, "I'm male." Gender dysphoria results, inhibiting one's wellbeing and daily functioning.

Sounds a lot like mental illness to me.

“My brain says I’m an angel, so I must be.”

Nope. Your brain says you're an angel but your body says you're a devil. That's when dysphoria creeps into your life. You're torn in two opposite directions.

That doesn’t make sense.

I don’t doubt the symptoms, but I don’t accept that as something we should celebrate or view as normal.

so then it is agreed that the condition is a mental one.

Plus a physical one. Not a mental illness (manic-depression, schizophrenia, agoraphobia, PTSD, etc.).

You have presented no evidence at all of a physical link other than your completely discounted hormonal theory.

I don’t doubt the symptoms, but I don’t accept that as something we should celebrate or view as normal.
We make it normal by making the brain and body agree, as should be.

You have presented no evidence at all of a physical link other than your completely discounted hormonal theory.
The brain loves pink dresses and the (physical) body has male genitals.

Not what I would call normal.

Not what I would call normal.
That why transitioning happens, to make normal that which isn't.

What individual adults elect to do is their own business. Just don’t try to get me to buy into that which has no foundation in religion or science. Would add that I don't want the government compelling us to toe that line.

And it's been a part of life since ancient times, probably since the beginning. Plants, animals, humans, insects et al. have alwags been involved in the LGBT+ experience. Indigenous peoples valued "two-spirit" tribe members. (Check out the book via your local library.)

Your entire post is complete conjecture mixed with utter foolishness about homosexual plants and insects.

Might mention that all sorts of mental illnesses and problems have been around for centuries. Native tribes also highly valued those who beat their wives and murdered members of other tribes including women and children. Does that make it all normal? Look it up in your local library!!

Hope your library card is valid and up to date. You have work to do!

In the post truth world reality is what you say it is. And if you have the right connections and power you can completely control the narrative.

Looks at the Wiki bio of ASSistant Sec Health Rachel Levine.
Rachel Levine - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rachel_Levine)

What's missing ? Rachel had a long life as Rick LeVine. He graduated from Harvard as a male . He played football as a male with General Miley in an exclusive Massachusetts school

He got married and had children as a male and raised them to adulthood as a male.

Speculation ....some time later his wife dumped the chump . However his ex-wife Martha Peaslee is a transformer advocate and Director of the Office for Professional Mental Health at Penn State College of Medicine. So who knows what influence she had on his decisions later in life ?

Sometime around 2011 he had a midlife crisis and decided he was a she. So even though for 54 years of his 65 years of life he was a male and could makes babies as a male . He decided that now he was a female.

It worked out well for him . He is a high ranking official in the Clueless Joe Regime . He is now an 'Admiral ' in a uniformed service . (evidiently the U.S. Public Health Service Commissioned Corps is a uniformed service .So he gets to wear an admiral's uniform with all the regalia )
Last year USA Today named him "women of the year "


Before he became a she he was a relatively little known healthcare bureaucrat in Pennsylvania . Life has been good to him as a she.

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Life has been good to him as a she.People suffering from mental delusions are popular with the liberal dems.

and the fad continues in post -truth America .


Over the past decade, LGBTQ+ identification has increased across the nation, with especially sharp growth at Brown. The Herald’s Spring 2023 poll found that 38% of students do not identify as straight — over five times the national rate.

Forty percent of Brown University students say they are LGBT, suggesting social contagion (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/forty-percent-of-brown-university-students-say-they-are-lgbt-suggesting-social-contagion/ar-AA1dCHFn?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=f233e097a9e1410a8b75ff07b73079e8&ei=11)

People suffering from mental delusions are popular with the liberal dems.
I have no doubt LGBT+ people exist among your friends, neighbors, and extended family. And among tomder's too. It ain't a fad.

You need to read his post again. He was never denying the existence of such people.

You need to read his post again. He was never denying the existence of such people.
Finally, LGBT+ people are starting to feel comfortable with themselves and are "coming out". As I mentioned earlier, they've been among us since the beginning of time and are finally, joyfully, revealing their real selves.

The pedophiles and zoophiles are next in line to joyfully reveal their real selves. Their claims will be every bit as valid as the LGBT crowd in the minds of many people.

Criminals don't reveal their true selves.

Sodomy used to be illegal. If we think we can celebrate two men having sex with each other, then adults/children and people/animals will come next. This describes it all perfectly.


...with all wicked deception for those who are perishing, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 Therefore God sends them a strong delusion, so that they may believe what is false, 12 in order that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

So a married couple, male and female, are allowed to have sex only one way, correct? No variations on a theme.

One thing I'll say; Rick Levine waited well into adulthood before he began pretending he was a woman.

If an adult chooses mutilation then I suppose it is a free will thing as long as I don't have to pay for it .

But there is a 10th level of Dante's hell for adults who encourage youth to mutilate themselves .
As Paul Stanley said

“Turning this into a game or parents normalizing it as some sort of natural alternative or believing that because a little boy likes to play dress up in his sister’s clothes or a girl in her brother’s, we should lead them steps further down a path that’s far from the innocence of what they are doing,”

But there is a 10th level of Dante's hell for adults who encourage youth to mutilate themselves .
That's not what happens, not how it works.

As Paul Stanley said

“Turning this into a game or parents normalizing it as some sort of natural alternative or believing that because a little boy likes to play dress up in his sister’s clothes or a girl in her brother’s, we should lead them steps further down a path that’s far from the innocence of what they are doing,”

As Paul Stanley said

“Turning this into a game or parents normalizing it as some sort of natural alternative or believing that because a little boy likes to play dress up in his sister’s clothes or a girl in her brother’s, we should lead them steps further down a path that’s far from the innocence of what they are doing,”
That's why family and individual counseling is done. No surgery (if any) is done for years.

So a married couple, male and female, are allowed to have sex only one way, correct? No variations on a theme.I'll just say it again. Sodomy used to be illegal. In England, "buggery" was punishable by death. You claimed that "criminals do not reveal their true selves," but what if it is no longer illegal? In your mind, is it OK then? I ask because that is what they are pushing for. Tom posted on this a few weeks back, speaking of some wanting to use the term "minor-attracted persons" rather then pedophiles. I suspect that you will support that should it be legalized. After all, if a fourteen year old girl is old enough to decide to have her genitals removed/altered, then surely you would think she is old enough to decide to have sex.

After all, if a fourteen year old girl is old enough to decide to have her genitals removed/altered, then surely you would think she is old enough to decide to have sex.
Nope. No way. Still too young.

Well at least you are agreeing that fourteen year olds should not have this type of surgery. That is progress.

Well at least you are agreeing that fourteen year olds should not have this type of surgery. That is progress.
A 14 y/o (and older) can dress the part, behave as the opposite sex, etc. I know at least a half dozen individuals who are old enough but can't afford the changeover. They are meanwhile satisfied with how they are able to present themselves.

A 14 y/o (and older) can dress the part, behave as the opposite sex, etc. I know at least a half dozen individuals who are old enough but can't afford the changeover. They are meanwhile satisfied with how they are able to present themselves.How old is "old enough"?

How old is "old enough"?
Over 21, self supporting.

No questions as to how they present themselves???

As a Christian minister, or just as a Christian, I would oppose it, but I don’t think it should be illegal.

Why oppose it?

Because women do not become men.

Because women do not become men.
What makes him a man?

Michael Bailey is a professor of psychology and a researcher on the topic of gender confusion for 40 years .

His article on Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria( ROGD) was retracted by 'Archives of Sexual Behavior' because trans-activists don't like to hear the truth . The truth being that most of the fad behind the transformer movement is a social construct .

There is ample evidence that in progressive communities, multiple girls from the same peer group are announcing they are trans almost simultaneously. There has been a sharp increase in this phenomenon across the industrialized West.

But there have been virtually no scientific data or studies on the subject.
In part that is because researchers who have touched this topic have been punished for their curiosity.[

My Research on Gender Dysphoria Was Censored. But I Won’t Be. | The Free Press (thefp.com) (https://www.thefp.com/p/trans-activists-killed-my-scientific-paper?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email)

Bud Lite sales and popularity continues to plummet .

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2023/07/08/06/72987895-12277193-image-a-19_1688794023543.jpg
Bud Light sales shrunk 28% in the week before holiday weekend | Daily Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12264303/Bud-Light-sales-shrunk-28-week-holiday-weekend.html)

What makes him a man?Men have XY choromosomes and are born with male genitalia.

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=What+is+a+woman&docid=603522246054329668&mid=32C9023AE6A885D719E432C9023AE6A885D719E4&view=detail&FORM=VIRE

News story.


A former pro-transgender activist said she regretted her previous work in pro-transgender activism, adding she felt she was "indoctrinated" on gender ideology (https://www.foxnews.com/media/dodea-sources-speak-out-woke-marxist-indoctrination-sexual-realignment-engineer) in an interview with Fox News Digital.
"I started to realize that what I had been doing at my job at the LGBT Center, it was grooming (https://www.foxnews.com/media/kirk-cameron-public-schools-grooming-kids-critical-race-theory-sexual-chaos-racial-confusion)," Kay Yang, a former employee of a location in New York, said. Grooming in this context means "to get into readiness for a specific objective."
Yang is now an outspoken critic of gender ideology being taught to young children in K-12 education (https://www.foxnews.com/media/k-12-curriculum-socially-engineering-millions-enraged-young-social-justice-warriors-parents-warn). Recently, Yang was attacked while protesting at a pride event in NYC for espousing views against the topic.


His article on Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria( ROGD) was retracted by 'Archives of Sexual Behavior' because trans-activists don't like to hear the truth . The truth being that most of the fad behind the transformer movement is a social construct .This is an on-going problem in a number of areas of study. Conservative researchers in origin of life and intelligent design studies cannot get published.

Men have XY choromosomes and are born with male genitalia.
Aha, those chromosomes! Them's the problem!

If you only knew the variations of humankind among whom you walk!

If only you knew science.

If only you knew science.
Yeah, I know you want science to say we're only 100% male or 100% female, like Adam and Eve. Sorry, the apple eating changed God's plan.

Like I said, if only you knew science.

Like I said, if only you knew science.
And I do. With real-life examples of how the science can get twisted when Mother Nature steps in.

https://scontent-atl3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/358538860_605703121733433_7699711207367042694_n.jp g?stp=dst-jpg_p526x296&_nc_cat=100&cb=99be929b-3346023f&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=Sfd42YrgvicAX88fiCV&_nc_ht=scontent-atl3-1.xx&oh=00_AfCJ-vahP5RfvxsyJ5Eu07eh9yE_9WWKDa_x70BDEhgl9w&oe=64B37342

And I do. With real-life examples of how the science can get twisted when Mother Nature steps in.You have not a clue. People who know the science don't ask questions such as, "What makes him a man," and then act surprised when chromosomal makeup is offered as an answer.

You have not a clue. People who know the science don't ask questions such as, "What makes him a man," and then act surprised when chromosomal makeup is offered as an answer.
Estrogen overload while a fetus.

Estrogen overload while a fetus makes a child a man??? Wow. Your knowledge of science is even more meager than I thought.

You know what I mean. (They took my prednisone away. I may turn into a man.)

I imagine prednisone could become a nice habit. I think they restrict it since it's hard on the heart.

birth defects and mutations are not nornal . They are the exception .

Very true. Even if a biological influence could be found, it would not make this a condition to celebrate.

California Bill AB957 passed the House and is now being debated in the Senate . It would add a parent’s denial of their child’s "gender expression" to the list of offenses deemed child abuse and would be considered in child custody considerations.




(B) As used in this paragraph, the health, safety, and welfare of the child includes, among other comprehensive factors, a parent’s affirmation of the child’s gender identity or gender expression. Affirmation includes a range of actions and will be unique for each child, but in every case must promote the child’s overall health and well-being.


Bill Text - AB-957 Family law: gender identity. (ca.gov) (https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=202320240AB957)

If the bill passes and ends up on Guv Newsom's desk ,will he sign it ? I know he has to pander to the radical Dems and the alphabet soup LGBTQ++XYZ crowd . But he has national aspirations . Will this bill sell in the swing states ?

Another good reason to flee Cali.

Dylan Mulvaney has been named by Forbes by it's “30 Under 30 Social Media” list for being one of the most influential young social media influencers in the world.

Mulvany contributed to the destruction of a major beer brand so perhaps the award is deserved. He "influenced " millions to boycott Bud Lite .

Perhaps he will be able to do the same for Mr. Biden.