As a historical document, the Bible's Old Testament is priceless. As a working guide to morality and modern life it’s a catastrophe.

The Old Testament only says "No, don't do that." One's immediate thought upon being told no is, "How can I get around that and still accomplish my objective?"

The Old Testament only says "No, don't do that." One's immediate thought upon being told no is, "How can I get around that and still accomplish my objective?"

Good point. Another thing about being told no is that the thing being prohibited is happening, else why prohibit it?

Athos
Quote Originally Posted by Wondergirl View Post
The Old Testament only says "No, don't do that." One's immediate thought upon being told no is, "How can I get around that and still accomplish my objective?"
Good point. Another thing about being told no is that the thing being prohibited is happening, else why prohibit it?

Also a good point. A British miniseries in 1974 called Moses The Lawgiver sort of took this approach. When Moses found a couple cheating on their spouses, for example, he gave them what-for and said "You must not commit adultery".
And we know the people had a tendency to violate the first three commandments, because they were doing just that while Moses was getting the tablets.
Truth really is stranger than fiction.

I always wondered about "Honor thy Father and thy Mother". Was that really necessary among all those dos and don'ts? Hmm...

I always wondered about "Honor thy Father and thy Mother". Was that really necessary among all those dos and don'ts? Hmm...
And why are eight of the ten "Thou shalt not..." while the third and fourth are positive?

And why are eight of the ten "Thou shalt not..." while the third and fourth are positive?

Those Hebrews musta been a bad bunch - fighting the Philistines and Canaanites and that business at the walls of Jericho. OTOH, they wrote great poetry and their women were pretty and powerful.

Athos
I always wondered about "Honor thy Father and thy Mother". Was that really necessary among all those dos and don'ts? Hmm...

A lot is wrapped up in how one defines "honor" as a verb.

A lot is wrapped up in how one defines "honor" as a verb.
I was always taught it doesn't mean obey. What thinkest thou?

I was always taught it doesn't mean obey. What thinkest thou?

I agree. If I may coin a word, the Hebrew essentially means "biggify". Hold them up with reverence and respect. It doesn't necessarily mean "obey blindly".
I'm not sure Moses could have envisioned some of the "parenting" that goes on today, or there might have been some explicit exceptions. Yet even abusive parents can be shown proper respect, as long as it's done from a distance. Honoring also doesn't necessarily mean tolerating.
Personal example: my mother-in-law was just about the unhappiest person I ever knew. She revealed it mostly in her words, because she found something wrong with everything. In particular she didn't like me. She inflicted so much hurt on my wife that it required us getting divorced for a while for her to deal with all of it.
When I was around her, I showed proper respect and politeness regardless of the barbs she was forever throwing at me. The last thing she said to me on her death-bed was a potshot about money. In response, I was reading Psalm 91 aloud as she expired. I couldn't stand her and I didn't mourn her. But I do believe I honored her.

For what it's worth.

Did we have the same mother-in-law, dwashbur?!

And thank you for that wonderful explanation! I will c/p it and put it (with proper attribution, of course) into my journal of literary treasures.

If I may coin a word, the Hebrew essentially means "biggify". Hold them up with reverence and respect.

"Biggify" sounds like a word Trump would use. In any case, your word is pretty much the same as the word "honor".

"Biggify" sounds like a word Trump would use. In any case, your word is pretty much the same as the word "honor".

Yeah, I was sort of wincing as I came up with it for that reason. But it's about the most "literal" rendering of the Hebrew word that I could come up with.

Scenario:
Mean old man screams at neighbor who's walking by. He's rude, profane, and vicious.

Response 1: Why don't you just go back in side you miserable old coot? Nobody's bothering you, get the stick out of your goozyx and just shut up.

Response 2: Smile and nod and keep walking.

"Respect your elders". Which response constitutes respect or honor in this scenario?


Did we have the same mother-in-law, dwashbur?!

Idunno, did you marry a guy named John McCloskey? (Kathy's only brother) Hee hee

"Respect your elders". Which response constitutes respect or honor in this scenario?

Neither.

Response #1 is obviously disrespectful.
Response #2 is also disrespectful. A respectful response would have been a calm approach to the elderly man re his behavior instead of ignoring his disrespectful behavior.

Scenario:
Mean old man screams at neighbor who's walking by. He's rude, profane, and vicious.

Response 1: Why don't you just go back in side you miserable old coot? Nobody's bothering you, get the stick out of your goozyx and just shut up.

Response 2: Smile and nod and keep walking.
Response 3: Stop, smile, wave, then start taking to him as you walk toward him, asking "I just baked a pan of yummy brownies. May I bring you some, or perhaps some of the cornbread I made yesterday? We can make coffee or tea, then we can share some jokes and stories."

I dunno, did you marry a guy named John McCloskey? (Kathy's only brother) Hee hee
Oh, wow!!! I think John was in my MIL's board (bored?) game club!

Sorry, #3 isn't an option. Circumstances only allow the first 2.

Sorry, #3 isn't an option. Circumstances only allow the first 2.
But but but Jesus said to love one another. Sooooo, brownies or cornbread show my love! Then that man may start to love others.

Sorry, #3 isn't an option. Circumstances only allow the first 2.

If circumstances allow 1 and 2, there is no circumstance on earth why # 3 is not allowed. You cannot force an answer simply on your say-so. Isn't that Pharisaical thinking?

I prefer to think of it as storyteller's choice.

I prefer to think of it as storyteller's choice.

So you want people to be disrespectful? Be honest now. Are you a wolf in sheep's clothing? A fallen angel? Or, or, or - the ARCHFIEND HIMSELF?

Does being the Archfiend help you get girls? Did you get that job through the New York Times? Benefits?

There's a famous librarian on here. You should meet her. She knows boys that wanna be girls and girls who want to be boys or something like that. As for me, I want to be a table - I like chairs. And stories.

There's a famous librarian on here. You should meet her. She knows boys that wanna be girls and girls who want to be boys or something like that. As for me, I want to be a table - I like chairs. And stories.
They don't WANT TO BE! Ever hear of gender dysphoria? And aren't you the one who long ago lectured us that all fetuses begin as female and then around six weeks are "washed!" by testosterone etc.? And also (1930s-1970s) pregnant women got meds/shots containing estrogen (DES) to prevent miscarriage. What happened to that estrogen that flowed around in their womb as it washed over the developing fetus?

And now this thread has been disrupted and rerouted

And aren't you the one who long ago lectured us that all fetuses begin as female and then around six weeks are "washed!" by testosterone etc.?

Huh? Who? Moi? I said that? I musta been washed in booze (or altar wine).


And also (1930s-1970s) pregnant women got meds/shots containing estrogen (DES) to prevent miscarriage. What happened to that estrogen that flowed around in their womb as it washed over the developing fetus?

Well, ya got me there. In 1930 I was interviewed about that on Movietone News and I got hate mail shortly afterwards. I married one of those haters but she left me when she found out who I REALLY was (are?, am? Is?). Our grandchildren are all grown-up now and living on a small island in the South Atlantic on a commune that worships Isis.

See that "Isis thing? I (me, I) brought this thread back after you so rudely sent it off on another track. HA!

See that "Isis thing? I (me, I) brought this thread back after you so rudely sent it off on another track. HA!
No, you did with your "There's a famous librarian on here" paragraph in Post #20.

No, you did with your "There's a famous librarian on here" paragraph in Post #20.

NOPE - wr-r-r-ro-o-o-on-n-n-g-g-g.

You said
"And now this thread has been disrupted and rerouted"
RIGHT AFTER you saying
"They don't WANT TO BE! Ever hear of gender dysphoria? And aren't you the one who long ago lectured us that all fetuses begin as female and then around six weeks are "washed!" by testosterone etc.? And also (1930s-1970s) pregnant women got meds/shots containing estrogen (DES) to prevent miscarriage. What happened to that estrogen that flowed around in their womb as it washed over the developing fetus?"

HA! Let's see you get out of THAT one!

So you want people to be disrespectful? Be honest now. Are you a wolf in sheep's clothing? A fallen angel? Or, or, or - the ARCHFIEND HIMSELF?

Does being the Archfiend help you get girls? Did you get that job through the New York Times? Benefits?

I don't consider the "smile and nod" response to be disrespectful. I'm not sure why you do. It acknowledges the person, defuses the situation, and allows me to move on without responding in a disrespectful way.

It's a common and useful response to such things. Trying to approach him would likely be perceived as a threat, given the man's state of mind as he's screaming. Politely acknowledge, move on.

Not disrespect.

I'm shutting this off right now. No rabbit holes, please. I'm ADD enough already.

HA! Let's see you get out of THAT one!
Please read the posts in order and more carefully.

I'm shutting this off right now. No rabbit holes, please. I'm ADD enough already.

Aww, just when it was starting to be fun!


I don't consider the "smile and nod" response to be disrespectful. I'm not sure why you do. It acknowledges the person, defuses the situation, and allows me to move on without responding in a disrespectful way.

You say not disrespectful. I say cowardly. A little effort would go a long way to assuaging the poor man's difficulties. Like WG said but maybe a little less hyperbolously. She's a librarian so she can spell that word better. (Better than? Better than me? Correctly instead of better - yeah, that's it)


It's a common and useful response to such things.

Common, maybe. Hardly useful.


Trying to approach him would likely be perceived as a threat, given the man's state of mind as he's screaming. Politely acknowledge, move on.

Nah, more likely, the tears would flow in gratitude for someone who finally stopped to speak to him instead of just smiling and avoiding him. Christianity 101.


Please read the posts in order and more carefully.

Try again. Read post # 24.

Try again. Read post # 24.
The thread was on topic, until Athos changed direction --
Athos, #20 "There's a famous librarian on here. You should meet her. She knows boys that wanna be girls and girls who want to be boys or something like that. As for me, I want to be a table - I like chairs. And stories."
WG, #21 "They don't WANT TO BE! Ever hear of gender dysphoria? And aren't you the one who long ago lectured us that all fetuses begin as female and then around six weeks are "washed!" by testosterone etc.? And also (1930s-1970s) pregnant women got meds/shots containing estrogen (DES) to prevent miscarriage. What happened to that estrogen that flowed around in their womb as it washed over the developing fetus?

And now this thread has been disrupted and rerouted."

You say not disrespectful. I say cowardly. A little effort would go a long way to assuaging the poor man's difficulties. Like WG said but maybe a little less hyperbolously. She's a librarian so she can spell that word better. (Better than? Better than me? Correctly instead of better - yeah, that's it)


To each their own. The ones I've encountered would consider any approach a threat. Your Mileage May Vary.

And she knows she's not the only librarian here.

And she knows she's not the only librarian here.
Let's have a Dewey Decimal duel! What's the Dewey number for the Bible?

And she knows she's not the only librarian here.

Hmm, that puts new light on her claim.

Moving right along: here's the context of that thread.


So you want people to be disrespectful? Be honest now. Are you a wolf in sheep's clothing? A fallen angel? Or, or, or - the ARCHFIEND HIMSELF?

Does being the Archfiend help you get girls? Did you get that job through the New York Times? Benefits?

There's a famous librarian on here. You should meet her. She knows boys that wanna be girls and girls who want to be boys or something like that. As for me, I want to be a table - I like chairs. And stories.

As can be seen, there was more to the thread than was cited. The change-the-thread part was an add-on to the humor (admittedly attempted humor), not the meat of the thread. HOWSOMEVER, being the gregarious forgiving wonderful human being that I am, I have decided to humbly acknowledge WG's accusation and grant her solace and release and relief from any and all faux-pas I have made in the past, are making now, or will make in the future for all time and eternity.


The thread was on topic, until Athos changed direction --
Athos, #20 "There's a famous librarian on here. You should meet her. She knows boys that wanna be girls and girls who want to be boys or something like that. As for me, I want to be a table - I like chairs. And stories."
WG, #21 "They don't WANT TO BE! Ever hear of gender dysphoria? And aren't you the one who long ago lectured us that all fetuses begin as female and then around six weeks are "washed!" by testosterone etc.? And also (1930s-1970s) pregnant women got meds/shots containing estrogen (DES) to prevent miscarriage. What happened to that estrogen that flowed around in their womb as it washed over the developing fetus?

Amen.

Are you okay, Athos?

Are you okay, Athos?

Except for the bump on my head when I tripped on the empty beer bottles in my driveway, I'm in tip-top shape. You?

Let's have a Dewey Decimal duel! What's the Dewey number for the Bible?


220's, of course! What's the LC letter designation?

220's, of course! What's the LC letter designation?
Excellent! I never learned LC, so had to look it up: BS345 A2E4 1663. I'm guessing there's rhyme and reason to that designation....

I just now caught your joke -- the LC letter designation for the Bible is BS. You just made my day!

I worked in four libraries, two were LC and two were Dewey. I assume the "BS" means "Bible Study", similar to how BR is "Bible Religion" and "BT" is "Bible Theology".

But I could be blowing smoke, too. I never actually checked it.

I worked in four libraries, two were LC and two were Dewey. I assume the "BS" means "Bible Study", similar to how BR is "Bible Religion" and "BT" is "Bible Theology".

But I could be blowing smoke, too. I never actually checked it.
I found this:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Library_of_Congress_Classification:Class_B_--_Philosophy,_Psychology,_Religion

Letter B is Philosophy, Psychology, Religion

Subclass S is The Bible

Oh well, I like my wild guesses better, but as Peter Schickele said, truth is just truth. You can't have opinions about truth. (Boy, was he ever overoptimistic!)

I can still hear angels chuckling over your "BS" interpretation. I bet even God is grinning!