recent days have seen Hamas rain rockets on Israel and Israel retaliates raining destruction on Gaza and why, it seems Israeli actions in ejecting Palestinians from properties in east Jerusalem are at the root of the violence, and yet were these people actually Palestinians. It seems any excuse is reason to rain rockets on Israel and you have to ask where did these rockets come from? Surely Palestinians don't possess arms factories

Will America defend Israel or the Palestinians?

Will America defend Israel or the Palestinians?Will Australia?

This is what happens when the Administration favors the messianic homicidal butchers of Iran, and uses the failed narrative that there can be no solution in the ME without the Palestinians . Quid's regime is back to that emperor and Bush model that there has to be a 2 state solution and that the Palestinians should have a place at the table. Well yes they should when they have responsible leadership and not the kleptocratic pseudo-elected for life Abbas .

New word of the week: kleptocratic. Had to look that one up. Well done!

Will Australia?

Actually not our fight but we have always had good relations with Israel

Thank goodness, then, that we are, and have been willing for decades to make it our fight. You can make a great argument that if not for the United States, Israel would not have survived.

I think they are demonstrating a will to survive right now, they are taking the fight to Hamas, which afterall is just an Iranian proxy. Interesting this should flare up when there are negotiations with Iran

I admire Israel far more than any other nation. It is an area of concern that Biden and Kerry will throw them out the door. Say what you want about Trump, but Israel loved him and with good reason.

Interesting this should flare up when there are negotiations with Iran Terror is a tried and true negotiating tactic affecting the wet noodle spine leaders the most .

Yes the war on terror had the wrong target from the Israeli point of view

You know I have to ask again, where did the Palestinians in Gaza get 3,000 rockets?

https://www.news.com.au/world/middle-east/death-toll-from-israelpalestine-conflict-reaches-grim-new-record/news-story/d75a77f869bae7f594a363c350fe788d

If Gaza is closed off and the borders controlled then serious questions must be asked about Egyptian involvement in the current circumstances

The rockets have 'made in Iran 'written all over them . They get smuggled in from Sudan through Sinai . Yes Egypt does not have total control of Sinai .

For a while that route was shut off due to the Abraham Accords . Then Quid became President .Although remaining a party to the Abraham Accords and expanding them would probably win Quid the Nobel Peace Prize, it would put him in the partisan doghouse for the crime of failing to kill something Trump created..
He restored the cash payment of $ 235 million to the Palestinians last month . Now they had the cash and the smuggling route reopened .

He restored the cash payment of $ 235 million to the Palestinians last month . Now they had the cash and the smuggling route reopened .

The bulk of the funds went to the UN for its humanitarian work providing food and medicine to Palestinians - funds which Trump had refused to release to the UN.

uh yeah . Money becomes fungible . I wouldn't give a dime to the carelessly bloated mismanaged corrupt and unaccountable Unrwa It is one of the U.N.'s most perverse, destructive creations. In Gaza it essentially functions as Hamas's bankroll .Hamas siphons aid money for terrorism funding by placing it's operatives on Unrwa payroll. Of it's 30,000 employees ,most are Palestinian . It is basically the payroll for Hamas .That frees up other money they get for the purpose of buying rockets and digging tunnels into Israel.

I wouldn't give a dime to the carelessly bloated mismanaged corrupt and unaccountable Unrwa It is one of the U.N.'s most perverse, destructive creations. In Gaza it essentially functions as Hamas's bankroll .Hamas siphons aid money for terrorism funding

That's your opinion.


frees up other money they get for the purpose of buying rockets and digging tunnels into Israel.

Maybe they wouldn't have to buy rockets if the Israelis didn't evict the Palestinians from their own property in East Jerusalem as they did the past week.

not opinion . It is a mutual relationship . There is no Unrwa without a "refugee " issue. There is zero incentive for them to solve the issue . It keeps 30,000 people employed ....mostly Palestinians beholden to Hamas .

That's your opinion.

Maybe they wouldn't have to buy rockets if the Israelis didn't evict the Palestinians from their own property in East Jerusalem as they did the past week.

Are you trying to justify what is basically an attack with heavy weapons on a civilian population because of a few evictions. It is not a proportional response

Are you trying to justify what is basically an attack with heavy weapons on a civilian population because of a few evictions. It is not a proportional response

No, the Israeli response initiated the rioting and fighting because the Palestinians were being beaten by the Israeli police. The Israeli response with their jet aircrarft destroying civilian centers in Gaza including dozens of children wasn't proportional either.

What do you think is proportional to the launching of 3,000 rockets? You try to justify the Palestinian violence. I think the Israeli conquered the West Bank and Gaza and gave it back to the Palestinians who are never satisfied, and never will be satisfied. It is a pattern repeated all over the world. A conquered people never accepts the conquerer. Each time the arabs took on Israel they lost more territory and still they don't get it. I don't think they have much between the ears

Palestinians who are never satisfied, and never will be satisfied.

Of course they're not satisfied. Would you be satisfied if someone came into your home and kicked you out?


Each time the arabs took on Israel they lost more territory and still they don't get it.

They get that their homeland was taken by Israel.


I don't think they have much between the ears

I don't think you do either.

The Israeli response with their jet aircrarft destroying civilian centers in Gaza including dozens of children wasn't proportional either.

My suggestion would be for Hamas the international criminals and terrorists to stop establishing HQs in civilian areas and to stop storing rockets and weapons in schools ,hospitals and places of worship .

What do you think is proportional to the launching of 3,000 rockets? What would the US response be to 3,000 rockets being fired across the border . OH wait . we have Quid in office ...... never mind

He would put KH in charge of our response. After all, she's the southern border czar now. Hasn't held a press conference in nearly two months, but she's the one in charge. How much confidence does that give you?

What would the US response be to 3,000 rockets being fired across the border .

What would the US response be if another country came to the US and began evicting US citizens from their own land?

What would the US response be if another country came to the US and began evicting US citizens from their own land?
Are the Palestinians the descendants of the Canaanites that the OT God ordered the Israelites to kill and then claim their land, identified as the "Promised Land"?

What would the US response be if another country came to the US and began evicting US citizens from their own land?

As I recall the US kept the territory it conquered in Mexico

If this is a biblical discussion I am gone. None of the stuff you hear about 'evictions ' is fact . Btw . Since when did Hamas need any reason to start raining rockets on Israel ? Rockets have been fired into Israel from Gaza ,and Lebanon repeatedly since at least 2000. It is rare that Israel responds beyond interception with the Iron Dome .

The Sheikh Jarrah properties is a private dispute that was settled by the Israeli courts . The Jewish complainants have had their claim confirmed in court . The truth is that Israeli courts have gone out of their way to avoid evicting the Palestinian squatters who haven’t paid rent for 50 years . The properties in question were purchased in !875 ;long before the Israeli state existed . The truth was that when Israel went independent ,the Jordanians invaded the new state ;occupied half of Jerusalem and evicted legitimate Jewish land owners . Jordan then transferred some of the property titles to Arabs and let other properties be occupied

Israel then beat Jordan in the 1967 war , Still the Israelis honored the transferred titles .

These properties are NOT at issue.

The issue is with properties that were occupied by Palestinians but were NOT transferred away from Jewish ownership . In those cases the Israeli courts honor the title of the Jewish owners despite the fact that Palestinians have unlawfully occupied these properties . These are the properties that have had evictions .

If this is a biblical discussion I am gone.
I was just wondering if this hatred goes back millennia, to Old Testament times and even before. What groups of people have moved into and maybe been forced out of this area, and why? I then found an interesting article in Britannica:
https://www.britannica.com/place/Canaan-historical-region-Middle-East

Are the Palestinians the descendants of the Canaanites that the OT God ordered the Israelites to kill and then claim their land, identified as the "Promised Land"?

No the Palestinians are Arabs, descendants of Ismail. Until the seventeenth and eighteenth century, Palestinine was a sparcely populated backwater of the Ottoman empire. The Canaanites were not Arabs, nor are they Philistines, the only ancient race that had claim on Gaza. Like the current Jewish occupants they are all immigrants at one time or another. The argument the God gave the land to the Jews is mote, the Jews didn't live up to the promise and were expelled by the Persians and the Romans

And after 1900 years, they got the land back. Only time in history any country was reconstituted after that length of time. The amazing aspect was that the Jews maintained their ethnic identity for all of those centuries.

Yes but that is a matter of religion as much as race, the jews were vilified for centuries and therefore kept close in their own communities

As I recall the US kept the territory it conquered in Mexico

That was the Vietnam of the 19th century. Only difference the US won. Even Lincoln opposed the War with Mexico. Two wrongs don't make a right.

Palestinine was a sparcely populated backwater of the Ottoman empire.

Your "sparsely populated backwater" is somebody else's home.

I was just wondering if this hatred goes back millennia, to Old Testament times and even before.

Territorial claims are tricky in a region where land has changed hands so many times .
The History of the Middle East: Every Year - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eIADs7Ct-Q)

The modern Israel -Palestinian conflict dates back to the end of WW I when the Ottoman Empire was carved up and the territory was part of the 'British Mandate ' . During the war ,Lord Balfour the Brit foreign minister promised the Jews a homeland in the territory in return for support of the Allies cause . Concurrently the Arabs were promised independence in return for a revolt against the Ottomans .

Yes but that is a matter of religion as much as race, the jews were vilified for centuries and therefore kept close in their own communitiesMany countries had what amounted to national religions. Only one stayed distinct for 1900 years.

The whole region is beset by all kind of little splinter groups and terrorist cells dedicated to fighting somebody for some reason or another. This is just another one of them and the Palestinians are caught between these groups and the Israelis who dominate in the name of their own security just like every other country who went to kick somebody's butt that they saw impeding their sovereignty and security and rights...or PURITY.

The modern Israel -Palestinian conflict dates back to the end of WW I when the Ottoman Empire was carved up and the territory was part of the 'British Mandate ' . During the war ,Lord Balfour the Brit foreign minister promised the Jews a homeland in the territory in return for support of the Allies cause . Concurrently the Arabs were promised independence in return for a revolt against the Ottomans .

The British High Commissioner in Egypt (McMahon), The Sykes-Picot Agreement, and the Balfour Declaration. All three, made around the same time, promised different results after WW1 in Palestine for Arabs and Jews.

Why did the Jewish position take precedence over the Arab position?

.

Why did the Jewish position take precedence over the Arab position?

It would not have needed to had it not been for Hitler's final solution and WWII. Those events gave new urgency to reestablishing a homeland for the Jews and why not a sparcely populated region of the ME and traditional home of the Jews? when the Arabs were given Syria, Iraq, Jordan, Arabia. You must not view the events in the microcosm of Palestine as the Palestinians want you to do. Jordan was established to be the homeland of the Palestinians but their hatred of the Jews led to war which they lost and they lost territory which remains part of the dispute today. The Palestinians want it all, they have never had any intention of sharing

It's amazing how the anti-Semites go on and on about the Jews. They occupy less than 1% of the land in the Middle East. It is land that was largely desolate before they got there and developed it. The Arab nations have expressed no great desire to accept the displaced Palestinians. They are, in truth, more welcome in Israel than in Arab countries. Israel is the one country in the ME genuinely committed to democracy and human rights.

Jordan has a large population of Palestinians and before the six day war had an even larger population. By not giving Israel proper defensible borders the UN set it up to fail. The Israelis showed proper resolve and deserve to stay and defend themselves against this irrational attack and the irrational demands of the Palestinians.

It would not have needed to had it not been for Hitler's final solution and WWII.

The world was rightly sympathetic to the suffering of Jews under Hitler. But did that justify granting them land belonging to others? The land seizure has been justified by it being "sparsely populated and desolate". Ironic that the Nazis also first justified land seizures in Eastern Europe by Germans becoming more efficient agriculturalists.

I'm quite sure that members here who approve the land seizure would fight like hell if someone tried to give their land and property away to others. In the actual event, half the local population fled or were expelled, hundreds of their villages were destroyed, and the inhabitants including women and children were killed or executed.

As Arabs attempted to return to their seized lands, Israel passed laws preventing the displaced Palestinians from doing so, and also passed laws normalizing the Israeli seizures.

(Discussions of the Israel-Palestine issue never fail to bring out the morons who see any criticism of Israel as anti-semitic.)

Given the cruel bloody history of America's growth and development it's not surprising a blind eye can be turned by those emulating our example.

The Israeli laws apply to all in Jerusalem . Had the squatters paid rent then there would be no issue . They would be protected indefinitely in the justice system if they paid rent ,just like any tenant in this country .

The truth is that the ONLY issue here is that the land owners are Jews . So yes the issue is anti-Semitism .

As an example ;this letter from 190 so called human rights organizations mention the land owners as Jews 8 times .
It incorrectly calls them settlers 7 times (as previously mentioned ,the property was owned by their families for over a century. ).
Letter: 190 Organizations Urge ICC Prosecutor to Investigate Forced Evictions of Palestinian Families in Sheikh Jarrah, East Jerusalem | Center for Constitutional Rights (ccrjustice.org) (https://ccrjustice.org/letter-190-organizations-urge-icc-prosecutor-investigate-forced-evictions-palestinian-families)


I find it amusing that those who are outraged about the state of Israel always fail to mention that Jews were evicted from any number of Arab nations after 1948 and forced to leave behind $billions in property .
The controversy at Sheikh Jarrah ONLY exists because Jews were evicted from Jerusalem and stripped of property rights by Jordan after 1948 . Israel recaptured Jerusalem and returned the properties to their original owners . To date the Jews from other Arab nations have had no remedy for their losses .

and speaking of WWII ..... how many displaced people lost their right to property they owned ? Jews in Poland ? Their property rights were not restored by the Soviet Union . In some cases Poland's boundaries changed and now their land is in Ukraine .

I have mentioned this before but it bears repeating .The claim to property ;even in this country ,is contingent on someone's ability to defend it . How often in this country is eminent domain invokes to take someone's property for the "public good " ?

Discussions of the Israel-Palestine issue never fail to bring out the morons who see any criticism of Israel as anti-semitic.)Amazing how overly sensitive anti-Semites can be.


The truth is that the ONLY issue here is that the land owners are Jews . So yes the issue is anti-Semitism .Yep. No Arab country is genuinely concerned about Palestinian rights. Their motivation is to eradicate the Jews. Anyone who sides with them is, by default, engaged in the same crusade. Pick your friends wisely.

And right on cue, BLM joins up with the anti-Semites. Should we be surprised? "Black Lives Matter 'stands in solidarity' with Palestinians, vows to fight for 'Palestinian liberation.'" I'm sure the liberal dems in Congress will be apoplectic about the provocative use of the term "fight". How dare they!

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/black-lives-matter-hamas-terrorists-israeli

Does the BLM think the Palestinians black or coloured, they would not join with Kaffirs. The Palestinians would not fight for them only the stupid white men would fight for them a century and a half ago, but not now, for they have seen what they have done with their freedom. Attitudes have changed on the right and the left

The Israeli laws apply to all in Jerusalem .

The laws did not apply to Arabs as I stated. The reference is to the late 1940s when Israel became a state. Your reference is to today's issue.


The truth is that the ONLY issue here is that the land owners are Jews . So yes the issue is anti-Semitism

You have the wrong issue. See above. Anyway, that is NOT anti-semitism.


I find it amusing that those who are outraged about the state of Israel always fail to mention that Jews were evicted from any number of Arab nations after 1948 and forced to leave behind $billions in property

Is your belief that one justifies the other? Nothing amusing about that.


The controversy at Sheikh Jarrah........

That is the wrong controversy being referred to.


and speaking of WWII ....... how many displaced people lost their right property they owned ? Jews in Poland ? Their property rights were not restored by the Soviet Union . In some cases Poland's boundaries changed and now their land is in Ukraine.

Your point seems to be if one group loses property it is offset by another group losing property. That's hardly a blow for international harmony.


I have mentioned this before but it bears repeating .The claim to property ;even in this country ,is contingent on someone's ability to defend it

Good Lord, what a comment!! So I can take your property if I have more firepower and you can't defend it? Where in the world did you ever get that idea?


How often in this country is eminent domain invokes to take someone's property for the "public good " ?

Eminent domain has absolutely nothing to do with the issue being discussed. I'm surprised you even bring it up.


Does the BLM think the Palestinians black or coloured, they would not join with Kaffirs.

I will chalk it up to your ignorance not knowing that "kaffir" is a derogatory term. It is equivalent to the "N....." word.

Why would Israel not simply have said, "We are reclaiming land that belonged to us 1900 years ago?" The Palestinians were not the original occupiers of the land.

Why would Israel not simply have said, "We are reclaiming land that belonged to us 1900 years ago?" The Palestinians were not the original occupiers of the land.
And what if descendants of indigenous tribes said to white people in this country, "We, the original occupiers of this land, are reclaiming it because you stole it from our ancestors"?

Who did they take it from? And then who took the land before them? Where do you stop?

Your point seems to be if one group loses property it is offset by another group losing property. That's hardly a blow for international harmony. The only international outrage is when the Israeli's are the alleged wrong doers .

I have mentioned this before but it bears repeating .The claim to property ;even in this country ,is contingent on someone's ability to defend it


Good Lord, what a comment!! So I can take your property if I have more firepower and you can't defend it? Where in the world did you ever get that idea?

That is the bottom line . The laws are there to help you defend your right to property . But often that doesn't work out so well does it ? And as mentioned . The government can determine that you must surrender your property at their whim. see the taking clause of the 5th Amendment who determines "public use" or "just "compensation?....not the individual who actually owns the property

The only international outrage is when the Israeli's are the alleged wrong doers .

Got it. It's ok to take the land of others as long as it's Israel doing the taking.

That is the bottom line . The laws are there to help you defend your right to property . But often that doesn't work out so well does it ?

No, especially with Native Americans. So that land must be returned to them? Is that your position?


The government can determine that you must surrender your property at their whim

You're still confusing eminent domain with the issue under discussion. In any case, government seizure of land is hardly "at their whim". It requires due process and just compensation.


. see the taking clause of the 5th Amendment who determines "public use" or "just "compensation?....not the individual who actually owns the property

The final arbiter is the court. The principle of eminent domain has been successfully challenged several times.

So it's okay for the Israelis to destroy Palestinians in the ghetto to strike back against their Hamas attackers? Sounds like a cruel excuse to me.

So it's okay for the Israelis to destroy Palestinians in the ghetto to strike back against their Hamas attackers? Sounds like a cruel excuse to me.

The Israeli's don't tolerate terrorism any more than your own country does, no I would say a little less, since it doesn't go thousand of miles to retaliate. It is not a cruel excuse, those people chose to go there, they choose to stay, and they agree with Hamas, so spare me the tears for terrorist sympathisers. What did your country do when it was attacked by terrorists, it replied by bombing the crap out of them and conquering the country they lived in? The Palestinians are engaged in a proxy war on behalf of Iran and war is hell

The Israeli's don't tolerate terrorism any more than your own country does, no I would say a little less, since it doesn't go thousand of miles to retaliate. It is not a cruel excuse, those people chose to go there, they choose to stay, and they agree with Hamas, so spare me the tears for terrorist sympathisers. What did your country do when it was attacked by terrorists, it replied by bombing the crap out of them and conquering the country they lived in? The Palestinians are engaged in a proxy war on behalf of Iran and war is hell
Well said .. I would add that with Quid in command that we getting a repeat of 2014. The Hamas thugs stockpiled rockets from Iran . They launched them The Israeli's went into Gaza to take out Hamas. The incursion lasted until Hamas was almost defeated .Then international pressure led by the emperor and JFKerry forced Israel to back off .It was then that Iran knew they had a reliable negotiating partner with the emperor for JCPOA . Of note the emperor stopped the delivery of Hellfire missiles to Israel in the middle of the conflict .

This is a wash-rinse -repeat cycle . Iran supplies the missiles .A bogus intifada "spontaneously erupts . Hamas accelerates the firing of missiles into Israel provoking an Israeli incursion into Gaza. The Israeli response is internationally condemned as not being proportional . Human shields get killed because Hamas locates their weapons and HQs in civilian centers . There is external pressure for Israel to accept a temporary cease fire that is concurrent with Hamas running out of weapons . Eventually Israel bows to the pressure. Hamas rearms .
The Quid goal for the ME is the same as the emperor's .He wants Iran to be the dominant regional hegemon . Then the US can leave the region in their safe hands . Ask yourself why Quid ended the terrorist designation for the Iran backed Houthis in Yemen .

. Ask yourself why Quid ended the terrorist designation for the Iran backed Houthis in Yemen .

I don't ask myself such questions it makes my head hurt, what I will ask is why the US is the arms supplier to the world?

because the US has the best weapons ? (except the F35 which is a dog) If the Aussies had superior weapons to sell ,their arms would be on the market.

why the US is the arms supplier to the world?Who built the aircraft, tanks, small arms, etc. used by the Arab world? Who armed much of the third world? It was largely not the U.S.

cease fire announced . wash rinse repeat

Israel will stop . Hamas will continue for a few hours after the cease fire goes into effect so Hamas can show the people of Gaza they are still standing . Soon the humanitarian aid checks will be written to support the Palestinians while Israel will lick their wounds and explains that 'giving peace a chance' is what mature, grown-up nations do.

Israel should do a much better job of policing the borders this time

cease fire announced . wash rinse repeat

Israel will stop . Hamas will continue for a few hours after the cease fire goes into effect so Hamas can show the people of Gaza they are still standing . Soon the humanitarian aid checks will be written to support the Palestinians while Israel will lick their wounds and explains that 'giving peace a chance' is what mature, grown-up nations do.

Israel has had decades to give peace a chance yet they've chosen domination and expansion instead so good luck with that!

We better start paying attention to the importance of secure borders.

Israel has had decades to give peace a chance yet they've chosen domination and expansion instead so good luck with that!
get off their case you don't live close to a terrorist haven

get off their case you don't live close to a terrorist havenWell said. It's easy for people to sermonize when they're not the ones constantly having to fight for their lives. There is no question but that there would be peace today if the Arabs were willing to live and let live.

get off their case you don't live close to a terrorist haven

A bad neighborhood and enemies is no excuse for bombing innocents, caged like sardines in a ghetto of Israeli making. That's neither intelligent, humane, or befitting "God's chosen people".


Well said. It's easy for people to sermonize when they're not the ones constantly having to fight for their lives. There is no question but that there would be peace today if the Arabs were willing to live and let live.

It's even easier to stand by and let a mighty nation rollover the Palestinians instead of dealing with the real terrorists and their enablers.

You know how the US handled frequent attacks on population areas in the 1830s Removed the threat .

A bad neighborhood and enemies is no excuse for bombing innocents, caged like sardines in a ghetto of Israeli making. That's neither intelligent, humane, or befitting "God's chosen people".



It's even easier to stand by and let a mighty nation rollover the Palestinians instead of dealing with the real terrorists and their enablers.it is easy to be one eyed to be politically correct, the truth is these people have never accepted Israel and the right to live in peace


You know how the US handled frequent attacks on population areas in the 1830s Removed the threat .
Yes but that was internal and some of those attacks were provoked, you wouldn't do it today

it is easy to be one eyed to be politically correct, the truth is these people have never accepted Israel and the right to live in peace

So the conquerors should be accepted by the conquered? That's never happened even if there was little to be done about it.

So the conquerors should be accepted by the conquered? That's never happened even if there was little to be done about it.the attitude of your nation in respect of its indigenous why should Israel be held to a different standard, these people have started wars time and time again and been conquered each time these just don't care about their own

“Peace will come when the Arabs will love their children more than they hate us.”Golda Meir As long as the rhetoric and desires of Israel's enemies is the destruction and extermination of the Jewish state then there will be no peace ;and Israel has no choice but to do everything they can to make sure that doesn't happen . They have shown great restraint by historical standards .

The truth is that this war was provoked by Tehran for the purpose of straining the Abraham Accords .So far it appears that goal has not succeeded . They also want Quid at the table for JCPOA 2.0

Peace will come when the arab leaders are dead, this is unlikely to happen any time soon