They ended rather abruptly early in the Trump term . But now with Quid's reign just days away ,they are again on the march

Up to 8,000 US-bound migrants enter Guatemala from Honduras - CNN (https://www.cnn.com/2021/01/16/us/us-bound-migrants-guatemala-honduras/index.html)

For a country founded by immigrants you all have a serious problem with them.
Why not allow them in, and get them to do al those cruddy jobs that Americans refuse to as they see them as below their abilities.

I get the whole don't want the drains on the economy, but f they are paying taxes and making their way in the communities then why not...
Or is that too socialist for your taste.

I have no problem at all with LEGAL immigration

Let's entice them here with a $15 minimum wage !

Why not allow them in,We have been allowing them in for more than two centuries. There were more than a million in 2018 alone.

I have no problem at all with LEGAL immigration

Let's entice them here with a $15 minimum wage !

Yeah why entice them with 15 bucks when they have been taking a lot less for a long time.


We have been allowing them in for more than two centuries. There were more than a million in 2018 alone.

Wonder why they can always find work? like Ben says we have the work, but what's changed is the color of the migrants, and some feel threatened by that. Can't blame them. A majority minority is a helluva thing for a traditional white majority nation to accept.

We have been allowing them in for more than two centuries. There were more than a million in 2018 alone.
My German ancestors came here in the 1850s to farm. When did yours arrive and what jobs did they have?

If I were in charge, I'd set up more immigration stations and checkpoints on the southern border. They'd be run by well-trained and empathetic staff.

My German ancestors came here in the 1850s to farm. When did yours arrive and what jobs did they have?

If I were in charge, I'd set up more immigration stations and checkpoints on the southern border. They'd be run by well-trained and empathetic staff.

Some people have no empathy for a humane system of process and see cruelty as a deterrent...but still they come knowing that cruelty awaits.

Some of my people were forced to come here as this nation was founded, and still subjected to that cruelty to this day.

Weird how Americans are happy to self identify their immigrant ancestors, yet suggest they allow more to enter and they get all bent out of shape..
Now stop being Blah-American and be simply American and have pride in your nation.
That being said, the old national boundaries are becoming defuse, so embrace the change for the greater good of humanity...
Just look at the mess that has been made of Europe and the UK leaving that economic bloc...

Yeah I remember the Brexit was also fueled by the rhetoric of caravans of immigrants coming. Some people just gobble that fear of the other stuff up.

Yeah I remember the Brexit was also fueled by the rhetoric of caravans of immigrants coming. Some people just gobble that fear of the other stuff up.

And the European open internal borders was actually very good for the migrate economies, yet leavers were whipped up by blind rhetoric...
However what's done is done and some are now seeing just how badly mislead they were...

My Italian and Irish ancestors arrived here in the early 20th century . They were not allowed into NYC proper until they passed physical exams at Ellis Island . Those that were sick or had criminal records were either sent back to their native land or were housed until they were well enough to enter the country. If there were any reason to deny or delay approval the immigrants were kept in caged in areas with barbed wire .About 10% were refused admission. It's nicknames were 'Heartbreak Island', and 'The Island of Tears' because of the amount of those denied immigration. Immigrants could not come in penniless . They needed a minimum of $18 to prove they could support themselves while establishing themselves .

One of my grandfathers worked as a trolley driver ;the other in the Post Office . My grandmothers both worked retail jobs.

The alliance of the left and big business for the mass migration of cheap labor to both the US and GB has been a disaster . It is the people ;not the metropolitan elites or the swamp critters who bear the costs of the added infrastructure like civil services ;schools and the health care systems . It has created a downward spiral in living standards and forced more Brits and Americans onto the government dependency rolls .It is the working class of Britain and the US who have been required to pay the price for subsidizing that bargain .


Britain must be very proud how they herded the immigrants into working class ghetto enclaves . Some may have embraced Brit national identity . But most are still living like immigrants going well into the 2nd and 3rd generation .Add to that there is not even a religious identity What you have then is a breeding ground for radicals in the UK . At least here there is an attempt at integration . Separated by culture and religion ;almost all the radical Muslims in Europe are 2nd and 3rd generation immigrants .

Here in the US where 'melting pot' meant an integration into society while some cultural appropriation (now an evil concept ) occurred; we are now taught that America is a quilt of segregation that should be celebrated . But in Britain the headlines read that Europe is struggling with Muslim extremists . What they won't report is that it is a home grown problem bread by an unfettered immigration policy .

Tom, I think you have misunderstood how it worked within the EU, it wasn't driven by politics or big business. The whole bloc enjoy freedom of labour, much like working anywhere you wish within the USA, the same happened within the entire EU.
Immigrants were peoples from outside of that, ever expanding, economic bloc. That fact alone was vast misrepresented to the UK people during the whole Brexit mess.

The domestics terrorists are indeed later generations that have become disillusioned and followed religion based zealot personality cults.
Much of this has been of our own doing in not ensuring that everyone was fully integrated while also allowing for keeping their own cultural identities.
Unfortunately, I don't think this would have had any meaningful effect on the more recent Islamic problem.
Every religion has it's zealots, it's been lot easier for some to follow their paths to the bitter end.

We have a history in America of white supremacy and as much that has been done to eradicate those groups, they have just morphed into smaller locals connected by the new means of communications the internet and associated devices provide.

Jail as many members as you can, but the ideology continues.

so will Joe build a big beautiful wall or throw open the gates

so will Joe build a big beautiful wall or throw open the gatesThat's an easy one. He'll let in the illegals and tell them to vote democrat.

so more illegal votes then?

No more? Try "many more". I hope sincerely that does not develop, but I can certainly see it being very possible. Who would stop it?

Much of this has been of our own doing in not ensuring that everyone was fully integrated while also allowing for keeping their own cultural identities.

A common occurrence - immigrants becoming anti-immigration after a generation or two.

That's an easy one. He'll let in the illegals and tell them to vote democrat.

You do realise that illegal immigrants can't register to vote...
but why let that small fact get in the way of a good conspiracy...

You do realise that illegal immigrants can't register to vote...
but why let that small fact get in the way of a good conspiracy...You do realize it would be an easy matter for Congress to give them quick access to citizenship? The liberal dems control everything now. But why let that small fact get in the way of leisure?

You do realize it would be an easy matter for Congress to give them quick access to citizenship? The liberal dems control everything now. But why let that small fact get in the way of leisure?

If it makes your fringer head explode while buried shoulder deep YOU KNOW WHERE, then I hope they try. It would be the right thing to do for hard working migrants who contribute for years making America better...and highly entertaining for us libs. 8D

You do realize it would be an easy matter for Congress to give them quick access to citizenship? The liberal dems control everything now. But why let that small fact get in the way of leisure?

You're kidding, right...
Then they would be legal immigrates, that means taxable and improving their communities, etc.
You are falsely assuming that all immigrants have an opposing political view to your very narrow outlook.
Many couldn't careless as long as they have a job to make money and somewhere safe to call home.

You do know what liberal actual means don't you, as you clearly believe that they are one stop away from communism..


adjective
1. willing to respect or accept behaviour or opinions different from one's own; open to new ideas.

2. relating to or denoting a political and social philosophy that promotes individual rights, civil liberties, democracy, and free enterprise.


looks pretty good to me

You're kidding, right...
Then they would be legal immigrates, that means taxable and improving their communities, etc.
You are falsely assuming that all immigrants have an opposing political view to your very narrow outlook.
Many couldn't careless as long as they have a job to make money and somewhere safe to call home.If they enter illegally, then they are illegal immigrants up until the time of naturalization. Am I kidding? Biden is the one talking about packing the SCOTUS, so I don't put much past him.


You do know what liberal actual means don't you, as you clearly believe that they are one stop away from communism..Liberal and conservative are both terms that take on various meanings as times and pols change. Dictionary defs don't matter much. They are trying to impeach a pres just days before he leaves office on ridiculous charges. That tells me enough.

How Long Does It Take to Become a U.S. Citizen? (boundless.com) (https://www.boundless.com/immigration-resources/how-long-does-it-take-to-get-citizenship-after-applying/#:~:text=%20How%20Long%20Does%20It%20Take%20to%20G et,takes%20place%20about%2014%20months%2C%20on...% 20More%20)

N-400 Naturalization Processing Time | How Long It Takes for Citizenship (immi-usa.com) (https://www.immi-usa.com/immigration/citizenship-attorney/naturalization-citizenship/naturalization-processing-time/)

Ignorance of the law is no excuse with a friend like Google unless you are out of, or have lost you're frigging mind.

You now have to worry whether this caravan carries covid, but wait you don't have to worry about that since you will probably infect them as soon as they cross

If they enter illegally, then they are illegal immigrants up until the time of naturalization. Right, no argument there. So once naturalized they would be legally allowed to vote, once they register.


Biden is the one talking about packing the SCOTUS, so I don't put much past him. What on earth are you taking about. SCOTUS is already full after a recent change in seating being pushed through. That would be the same court that turned down recent acts, not once, but twice.
That being said it could do with being expanding to fully represent the circuit courts, of which there are 13, but that's a different discussion.


They are trying to impeach a pres just days before he leaves office on ridiculous charges. He has been impeached, just the official trial to follow now.
Least they wont be Trump'd up charges :) As the saying goes, he made his bed, now he has to lie on it.

So once naturalized they would be legally allowed to vote, once they register.Exactly.


What on earth are you taking about. SCOTUS is already full after a recent change in seating being pushed through.If you are going to comment on issues in the U.S., you really need to stay caught up. Biden and other dems have talked for months of expanding the number of SCOTUS justices to more than nine, and then putting liberal justices in the new seats to give the libs a SCOTUS majority.


As the saying goes, he made his bed, now he has to lie on it.The bed is only in the minds of liberal dems. At any rate, it is doubtful that they can attempt to have a Senate trial on a pres who has already left office. The precedent there is Nixon. He saw impeachment coming, so he resigned and the articles of impeachment were dropped.

So if they come into the country and follow the correct process, why are you making such a big thing out of it ?

As for SCOTUS, I'm more than aware that there are plans to change it's make up, as I actually mentioned.
As Mr Orange changed the seating arrangements to give himself the balance of power, your argument really doesn't hold any fluids.
Come on J keep up.

As for the impeachment, there is more at stake that just removing from current position, there's also disallowing any future public office and loss of many perks.
In this case I doubt they'll be dropped, as Biden could then use this as a perfect opportunity to show just how pragmatic the office of President can be and pardon Mr Orange to demonstrate unity and how statesmanship should be done.

Then of course you'll simply claim foul and it was all a nasty plan from the radical left.
This type of incendiary rhetoric is getting very staid and mundane.

If you'd prefer a more balanced and reasoned discussion, I'm mostly ears, otherwise I think we're done here.

If they come in illegally, then they are not following the correct process. It's the illegals that concern me. I'm all for legal immigration.


As Mr Orange changed the seating arrangements to give himself the balance of power, your argument really doesn't hold any fluids. That is completely wrong. Trump did what every other pres has done. He nominated qualified individuals to the SC. Did he pick conservatives? Yes, just as Obama selected libs and Biden will select libs. That is entirely different from changing the number of justices for no other reason than to swing future court decisions.

You are, I think, right about the dems motives for impeachment.


Biden could then use this as a perfect opportunity to show just how pragmatic the office of President can be and pardon Mr Orange to demonstrate unity and how statesmanship should be done.I would be amazed beyond believing if that happened, but I suppose it would be possible.


Then of course you'll simply claim foul and it was all a nasty plan from the radical left.
This type of incendiary rhetoric is getting very staid and mundane.Actually I wouldn't claim foul at all. I would just spend a week in utter astonisment.

If I have engaged in "incendiary rhetoric", then please point it out. That is not my intent. Perhaps you are referring to someone else.

Is it too soon to impeach Quid for inciting a mass immigration crisis?

Is it too soon to impeach Quid for inciting a mass immigration crisis?
At the border, he should install many checkpoints that include medical stations to give vaccinations and do physical and mental exams, temporary housing, child care, food stations, transportation to pre-set locations once approval has been granted, and translators. (If I were younger, I'd help.)

Or just build a wall.

Or just build a wall.
That's been tried and is a major fail. Better to stem the tide of opioids pouring in across the northern border.

The part that got built works great. It just needs to be completed.

The part that got built works great. It just needs to be completed.
Works great??? It has been quickly and easily scaled.

You need to keep up better. "New border wall blocks 90% of illegal crossings, up from just 10%." It works much, much better than, "many checkpoints that include medical stations."


https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/new-border-wall-blocks-90-of-illegal-crossings-up-from-just-10

You need to keep up better. "New border wall blocks 90% of illegal crossings, up from just 10%." It works much, much better than, "many checkpoints that include medical stations."

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/washington-secrets/new-border-wall-blocks-90-of-illegal-crossings-up-from-just-10
Hard to believe, but certainly those 135-136 miles of new wall will keep all those immigrants out of our country.

(P.S. I'm alive today because of immigrants and immigrants' children from Mexico, Central America, South America, India, Pakistan, the Philippines, China, and Africa.)

"The video from by Deseret Sun photojournalist J Omar Ornelas shows a man bracing a tall ladder at the foot of the fence as two men climb to the top, then easily slide down the ladder rails from the other side of the perforated fence."
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/border-wall-video-trump-us-mexico-climb-a9236656.html

Hard to believe, but certainly those 135-136 miles of new wall will keep all those immigrants out of our country.They will along the 135 miles. Shame we didn't build it all.


(P.S. I'm alive today because of immigrants and immigrants' children from Mexico, Central America, South America, India, Pakistan, the Philippines, China, and Africa.)Legal immigrants. I'm all for them.

They will along the 135 miles. Shame we didn't build it all.
Wonder why we didn't. Hmm....

Hope you watched the video I posted. And "gee whiz, let's just go east a bit and walk around the end of this stupid wall."

Legal immigrants. I'm all for them.
And you have NO IDEA of the difference.

Wonder why we didn't. Hmm....Two word answer. Liberal dems.


And you have NO IDEA of the difference.Kind of the difference between "legal" and "illegal". Not real complicated.

Two word answer. Liberal dems.
Yeah, right, they were in charge of the federal government for the past four years.

Kind of the difference between "legal" and "illegal". Not real complicated.
And I'd be singing hymns in heaven without illegals.

Two fascinating and revealing replies to the same question on immigration --

The first one is from WG:

At the border, he should install many checkpoints that include medical stations to give vaccinations and do physical and mental exams, temporary housing, child care, food stations, transportation to pre-set locations once approval has been granted, and translators. (If I were younger, I'd help.)


This one is from Jlsenbe:

Or just build a wall.


Which one is the Christian?

Yeah, right, they were in charge of the federal government for the past four years.They were in charge of the House the past two years, and the House is in charge of initiating spending. But I would certainly agree that it would have been great if more had been done.


And I'd be singing hymns in heaven without illegals.I have no idea what you are talking about.


Which one is the Christian?You should know by now that I am never, never, never impressed by anyone's morality based upon a theoretical call for spending someone else's money on an unproven idea. If you think that's what it means to be a Christian, then you know very little about the faith.

I have no idea what you are talking about.
I had developed aplastic anemia in April and almost died on May 8, 2018.

I had developed aplastic anemia in April and almost died on May 8, 2018.Thank God you survived. What does that have to do with illegal immigration?

Are the hospitals in Chi-town hiring illegals ? I kinda doubt it .

Yeah. I was thinking the same thing. Not trying to make light of the situation, but I would imagine that legal doctors, nurses, and pharmacists actually were the major players. Hard to imagine otherwise.

Are the hospitals in Chi-town hiring illegals ? I kinda doubt it .

Unless the disease is treated with blood transfusions. Then you need donors. The donors aren't always professionals.

Thank God you survived. What does that have to do with illegal immigration?
Is memory becoming a problem too??? I had posted just above this that I'd be singing hymns in heaven if it weren't for immigrants and most likely a few illegal immigrants.


Unless the disease is treated with blood transfusions. Then you need donors. The donors aren't always professionals.
One transfusion in the ER, three more during the next 18 hours. And the hospitals are staffed by far more types than doctors, nurses, and pharmacists -- aside to tomder to consider CNAs, lab techs and gofers, orderlies, and even the custodians who helped me polish my Spanish.

Your point about diverse hospital staff is well taken WG, and especially during covid, seriously undermanned, and Biden just released his immigration plan (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/biden-plans-to-propose-a-sweeping-immigration-overhaul-on-his-first-day-in-office/ar-BB1cTsyZ?ocid=msedgntp) to address that legal/illegal question. I hope this leads to humane and fair, safe processing of humans.

Is memory becoming a problem too??? I had posted just above this that I'd be singing hymns in heaven if it weren't for immigrants and most likely a few illegal immigrants.I remember it well. The question is which illegal immigrants helped you. Doctors? Nurses? CNAs? Custodians? Pharmacists? How did you know that some ESSENTIAL services were provided by illegals and you would not have gotten them without those illegal immigrants? Is this like the "I live on a modest income and am a monied republican making over a quarter mil a year" statement?


One transfusion in the ER, three more during the next 18 hours. And the hospitals are staffed by far more types than doctors, nurses, and pharmacists -- aside to tomder to consider CNAs, lab techs and gofers, orderlies, and even the custodians who helped me polish my Spanish.And they told you that they were illegals providing these services??? I find that one hard to believe.

I imagine Chi-town hospitals use E Verify like most legit employers .

I wouldn't mind a program of green cards to nurses and medically trained illegals.

I wouldn't mind a program of green cards to nurses and medically trained illegals.
That is a wonderful idea!

That is a wonderful idea!Has been being done for decades. Over 14 million people in the U.S. have green cards.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_card

Has been being done for decades. Over 14 million people in the U.S. have green cards.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_card
Something simpler than that.

Hmm. It's simple enough that fourteen million people have figured it out.

Hmm. It's simple enough that fourteen million people have figured it out.
That's ALL???

Yeah. Only equivalent to the population of three Alabamas. Go figure.

Yeah. Only equivalent to the population of three Alabamas. Go figure.
I dearly love my hardworking, dedicated Asian, Filipino, African, and Mexican healthcare providers!

I dearly love my hardworking, dedicated Asian, Filipino, African, and Mexican healthcare providers!I'm glad you do, but that has nothing to do with illegal immigration.

you mean like this ?

Health Care Worker Certification | USCIS (https://www.uscis.gov/working-in-the-united-states/temporary-workers/health-care-worker-certification)

That worker would not be an illegal

That's pretty much the whole point Tom. There is a procedure in place already to process migrants and further certify those with skills. It just has to be properly used.

And again .... no one has an issue with legal immigration . 10s of thousands bum rushing the boarder is intolerable . If they are here on a visa program they are not illegal

no one has an issue with legal immigration . 10s of thousands bum rushing the boarder is intolerable . If they are here on a visa program they are not illegalIt's just amazing that it has to be said over and over again. It's as though the liberal dems have decided that regardless of what the truth is, they just have to be right.

10s of thousands bum rushing the boarder is intolerable.
Why are they?

Who were these illegals you said saved your life? You haven't identified them.

Who were these illegals you said saved your life? You haven't identified them.
It would not be in their best interests if I IDed them.

Not names. Just some description of how you knew they were illegals.

Not names. Just some description of how you knew they were illegals.
They told me. That's why I got a master's in counseling psych -- people tell me very personal things. E.g., I was helping one older patron look for a non-fiction book. He bent over (I'm short) and whispered to me that he had started to drink his own urine to recapture any vitamins that might have been "expelled". One day a patron came in, threw her upper body across the circ counter, put her arms over her head, and groaned. "I just can't go on. Help me!" I pulled her aside to a quiet corner and talked briefly with her. That's the day I knew my future lay in counseling.

WHO told you? You are saying that certified med personnel just decided to come up and tell you that they were illegal aliens?

Why are they? Because some organizer in Honduras tells them they can escape poverty and that when Quid is President that he will open the borders to them . They don't just decide to start walking north . Someone is organizing the caravans . They are told they can claim asylum even though there is nothing in US law that permits people to be granted asylum for economic reasons .

I know one of the organizing group names . Pueblo Sin Fronteras .And they are funded by George Soros 'Open Society Foundations .'

You are saying that certified med personnel just decided to come up and tell you that they were illegal aliens?
No, YOU made that leap.

No, YOU made that leap.

I can't believe he made that comment. He says the most ridiculous things when he jousts with you. God knows what he'll want next - photo IDs, SSNs, affadavits?

I asked, " Just some description of how you knew they were illegals." You answered, "They told me. That's why I got a master's in counseling psych -- people tell me very personal things." I concluded, "You are saying that certified med personnel just decided to come up and tell you that they were illegal aliens?" So yeah, when you claim that you knew they were illegals because, "They told," you, then people do tend to conclude that...they told you they were illegal aliens. I know. Shocking isn't it?

I supposed they were certified med personnel because you say they saved your life. I think we can safely assume that a custodian, hair stylist, or cab driver didn't accomplish that.

But maybe you meant they actually told you they were Dallas Cowboys fans? I think we are back to another of those "modest income making more than a quarter mil a year" kind of statements, or those half-baked and inaccurate Aquinas quotes. Truthfully, I think you interchange legal and illegal immigrants in your mind so much that you just routinely exchange one for the other in conversations here.

I concluded, "You are saying that certified med personnel just decided to come up and tell you that they were illegal aliens

Your conclusion is incorrect.

I supposed they were certified med personnel because you say they saved your life. I think we can safely assume that a custodian, hair stylist, or cab driver didn't accomplish that.
There were no hair stylists or cab drivers involved.

Your conclusion is incorrect.I still think that was exactly what you were saying. It would seem you painted yourself into a corner by trying to claim that illegals saved your life. Now you are trying to retreat from saying that the med personnel who worked on you were illegals. Well, you can't have it both ways. The people who saved your life were either legal med personnel or the medical equivalent of migrant farm workers.

Rather than the usual protests of, "I didn't say A, I said B," why not just explain how it was that illegal immigrants saved your life? Or perhaps you just got the story mixed up?

Because some organizer in Honduras tells them they can escape poverty and that when Quid is President that he will open the borders to them . They don't just decide to start walking north . Someone is organizing the caravans . They are told they can claim asylum even though there is nothing in US law that permits people to be granted asylum for economic reasons .

I know one of the organizing group names . Pueblo Sin Fronteras .And they are funded by George Soros 'Open Society Foundations .'

Business Lobby: Amnesty Is Good for CEOs and Government (breitbart.com) (https://www.breitbart.com/immigration/2021/01/11/business-lobby-amnesty-is-good-ceos-government/)

Cheap labor, think where the products for American box stores comes from.

I still think that was exactly what you were saying. It would seem you painted yourself into a corner by trying to claim that illegals saved your life. Now you are trying to retreat from saying that the med personnel who worked on you were illegals. Well, you can't have it both ways. The people who saved your life were either legal med personnel or the medical equivalent of migrant farm workers.

Rather than the usual protests of, "I didn't say A, I said B," why not just explain how it was that illegal immigrants saved your life? Or perhaps you just got the story mixed up?
My FIRST quote: "I'd be singing hymns in heaven if it weren't for immigrants and most likely a few illegal immigrants."

Nope. THIS is your quote. "And I'd be singing hymns in heaven without illegals." There was no "most likely" involved in it. Now you are trying to back out of your quote. I guess it just is what it is. We can talk about something else since your statement remains totally unexplained and really suspect.

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=847927&page=3&p=3863320#post3863320

Nope. THIS is your quote. "And I'd be singing hymns in heaven without illegals." There was no "most likely" involved in it. Now you are trying to back out of your quote. I guess it just is what it is. We can talk about something else since your statement remains totally unexplained and really suspect.

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=847927&page=3&p=3863320#post3863320
And I did not say how they helped, did I.

It's all good. I'll just assume there is some truth there somewhere. Still, I'm glad you received help and survived. I'm sure you are grateful to those who helped you.

On day one, Biden kills the Keystone pipeline project. 11,000 jobs go up in smoke and for what? A strictly symbolic move designed to placate the left wing environmental extremists in the dem party. It will accomplish precisely nothing other than the destruction of high paying jobs.

https://www.npr.org/sections/inauguration-day-live-updates/2021/01/20/958823085/biden-order-blocks-keystone-xl-pipeline

Farmers and natives are hardly extremists and have been fighting this pipeline from the beginning going through the land they live on. Losing a 1000 jobs many temporary construction jobs is regrettable.

Second time the project has been killed. First by Obama. Then Trump, in his never-ending hatred of anything Obama, re-instated it.

There are pros and cons in every project to consider.

13 Pros and Cons of Tar Sands – Vittana.org (https://vittana.org/13-pros-and-cons-of-tar-sands)


The pros and cons of tar sands show us that short-term gains happen, but at the expense of long-term problems. We must work to find a solution that will limit emissions and habitat damage to benefit from this natural resource. If we cannot find this solution, we may run out of bitumen one day and leave a more polluted planet for future generations.

Funny how liberal dems claim to care so much about the welfare of others, but then have no problem with destroying their jobs for no good reason whatsoever.

Funny how liberal dems claim to care so much about the welfare of others, but then have no problem with destroying their jobs for no good reason whatsoever.

Was that a dufus fart by way of SDJL?

Funny how liberal dems claim to care so much about the welfare of others, but then have no problem with destroying their jobs for no good reason whatsoever.
The project has been controversial for its environmental impact and the effect on tribal lands. Workers are not local to the pipeline but are mostly from Wisconsin.

From https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/wisconsin-republicans-push-against-biden-order-ending-keystone-xl-pipeline-project-calling-it-a-job-killer/ar-BB1d0yNB?ocid=uxbndlbing
Resources Defense Council says the tar sands mines dig up and flatten forests to get access to the oil, destroying wildlife habitats.

"They deplete and pollute freshwater resources, create massive ponds of toxic waste and threaten the health and livelihood of the First Nations people who live near them."

The tar sands are in Canada. The petroleum they contain is going to be extracted and sold to someone. All we have done is cause the investment of hundreds of millions of dollars to be wasted and thousands of good American jobs to be lost, and all sacrificed on the altar of environmental correctness for airheads like AOC.

Trudeau is less than pleased at his counterpart south of the border . This is all BS anti-environmental and political patronage of the grossest kind .. The safest way to transport oil is pipeline . There are millions of miles of pipeline in the US and the Keystone is mostly complete .

The Canadian oil is going to make it to US refineries one way or the other .Alberta oil is already flowing in the sections of the Keystone already completed . But more capacity is needed .

If not by pipeline then it will come to the US by truck or rail . Both are much riskier of spillage than a pipeline .

But who controls the rail? You got it ......billionaire Quid supporter Warren Buffett . Buffett admits that the pipeline is the safer alternative . But if Quid is going to help direct business his way then who is he to object ?

What will this cost the US ? According to the Chamber of Commerce the pipeline will :


Produce 20,000 well-paying jobs during manufacturing and construction;
Increase personal income for all America workers by $6.5 billion during the lifetime of the project.
Generate an estimated $138.4 million in annual property tax revenue for state governments and local entities where the pipeline is located;
Create $585 million in new taxes for communities among the pipeline route;
Create more than $5.2 billion in property taxes during the lifetime of the pipeline.
Generate additional private sector investment of around $20 billion on food, lodging, fuel, vehicles, equipment, construction supplies and services.

But let's go for imaginary climate and environmental benefits over real employment . That is how Quid ,the champion of the working class will conduct business,

Produce 20,000 well-paying jobs during manufacturing and construction;
Increase personal income for all America workers by $6.5 billion during the lifetime of the project.
Generate an estimated $138.4 million in annual property tax revenue for state governments and local entities where the pipeline is located;
Create $585 million in new taxes for communities among the pipeline route;
Create more than $5.2 billion in property taxes during the lifetime of the pipeline.
Generate additional private sector investment of around $20 billion on food, lodging, fuel, vehicles, equipment, construction supplies and services.

When you have convinced yourself that there is an endless supply of borrowed money just waiting to be spent, then your bulleted points lose all meaning. They are only meaningful to responsible people, and those are in short supply in D.C.

There was a time when dems wanted to spend tax revenues on welfare and repubs wanted to spend those same revenues on the military. Dems wanted to raise taxes on the wealthy and repubs wanted lower taxes across the board. Now, with borrowed money widely accepted by a dull and thoughtless electorate, there is no longer any real consideration of tax revenues. "I want my check" is the new national motto.

The party in charge actually believes that silliness such as this is really important. "Within the proposals are the creation of the “Select Committee on Economic Disparity and Fairness in Growth,” which would require Congress to “honor all gender identities by changing pronouns and familial relationships in the House rules to be gender neutral.”

In clause 8(c)(3) of rule XXIII (https://rules.house.gov/sites/democrats.rules.house.gov/files/BILLS-117hresPIH-hres5.pdf), gendered terms, such as “father, mother, son, daughter, brother, sister, uncle, aunt, first cousin, nephew, niece, husband, wife, father-in-law, mother-in-law, son-in-law, daughter-in-law, brother-in-law, sister-in-law, stepfather, stepmother, stepson, stepdaughter, stepbrother, stepsister, half brother, half sister, grandson, or granddaughter” will be removed.

Fact check: House rules only changed gendered language in one document (usatoday.com) (https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/01/16/fact-check-house-rules-only-changed-gendered-language-one-document/4175388001/)

The changes to gendered language only apply to the text of Rules of the House; no terms were banned

It's true that the Rules of the 117th Congress include changes to gendered language. But they don't "ban" the terms from use in the House. The change only alters the text of Standing Rules to strike gender-specific language and replace it with gender-neutral language.


The rules package would "revise certain official language but would not prevent the use of gendered language," explains a report by The Hill (https://thehill.com/changing-america/respect/diversity-inclusion/532518-house-introduces-gender-neutral-language-in-new).
Let's look at the example from the graphic on Fox News.
The change (https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-resolution/8/text#H6CC3742D3740426CBCDA091082EE13B6) only applies to the language in Clause 8(c)(3) of Rule XXIII, which is the Code of Official Conduct for the House. The rule states that "a member, delegate, or resident commissioner may not retain the relative of such individual in a paid position." That clause is listed at the bottom of the Fox News graphic.
Clause 8(c)(3) specifies what individuals the rule includes in the term "relative."
Previously, the clause defined "relative" as "father, mother, son, daughter, brother, sister, uncle, aunt, first cousin, nephew, niece, husband, wife, father-in-law, mother-in-law, son-in-law, daughter-in-law, brother-in-law, sister-in-law, stepfather, stepmother, stepson, stepdaughter, stepbrother, stepsister, half brother, half sister, grandson, or granddaughter."
Now, the clause will define "relative" as "parent, child, sibling, parent’s sibling, first cousin, sibling’s child, spouse, parent-in-law, child-in-law, sibling-in-law, stepparent, stepchild, stepsibling, half-sibling, or grandchild."
Other changes (https://www.congress.gov/bill/117th-congress/house-resolution/8/text#H9A46EAD744284AECBC3CBD88CEA8C952) to the text of the Rules of the 117th Congress include switching the term "seamen" to "seafarers," the word "Chairman" to "Chair," and the phrase "himself or herself" to "themself."
It's false to suggest that any of these words have been widely banned; they have simply been switched in the text of one document, the Rules of the House of Representatives.
"Its consequences were limited to that document alone, and would have no bearing on the continued ability of House members to use gender-specific language in drafting legislation and resolutions, making speeches, or conducting a debate," reads a fact-check by Snopes (https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/pelosi-gender-ban-house/).
Tessica Glancey, a spokesperson for Fox News, directed USA TODAY to examples of the network's reporting that acknowledges the limited scope of the changes.
On Jan. 14, Steve Doocy — a co-host of "Fox & Friends," the program that aired the graphic — told viewers "these changes only apply to the rules document and do not prevent the House members from using gendered language."

A story on Fox News (https://www.foxnews.com/politics/pelosi-gendered-terms-rules) also notes, "There's nothing in the rules that prohibit members from using gender-specific terms when speaking on the House floor or conducting business."
But many social media posts that include the Fox News graphic do not present the news with that context, seeing the change as an outright ban on the use of the words.
McGovern has condemned the criticism of the change.
"It’s mind-blowing that some people have found it controversial to say ‘parents’ instead of listing ‘mother and father," he said. "Only in Congress would it be a scandal to be succinct. We are being inclusive, efficient, and accurate."

The sky is not falling!

I am not as much concerned abouht Madam Mim's silliness when I compare it to Quid's EO that effectively ends woman's sports at the high school and collegiate levels .
Any school that receives federal funding must either allow biological boys who self identify as girls onto girls’ sports teams or face administrative action from the Education Department.


“Children should be able to learn without worrying about whether they will be denied access to the rest room, the locker room, or school sports."

Executive Order on Preventing and Combating Discrimination on the Basis of Gender Identity or Sexual Orientation | The White House (https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/presidential-actions/2021/01/20/executive-order-preventing-and-combating-discrimination-on-basis-of-gender-identity-or-sexual-orientation/)

The bathroom issue is one thing that is bad enough . But we have already seen that biological women cannot compete in the athletic arena with biological men .Women's sports records are dropping like flies to men competing in women sports .

Any school that receives federal funding must either allow biological boys who self identify as girls onto girls’ sports teams or face administrative action from the Education Department.It's just amazing that things that would have been prohibited by common sense just a few years ago are now being put in as the equivalent of law.

Solution: Schools have athletic teams made up of both boys and girls. (I was a fantastic pitcher so was allowed to play on the boys' team in grade school -- like Missy Cooper on "Young Sheldon". I remember girls' basketball in high school. When we possessed the ball, we were allowed to dribble it only three times, then had to pass it to another player on our team. Stupid rule!)

Solution: Schools have athletic teams made up of both boys and girls.Result. The vast, vast majority of girls would not be playing. You played baseball in elem. school. I've watched high school sports hundreds of times as an administrator. The girls would be, in nearly all cases, hopelessly outclassed and would not be playing. And thankfully, girls play under the same rules now as boys. In fact, that changed just after I left high school.

no more Jackie Joyner, Althea Gibson and Wilma Rudolph

Result. The vast, vast majority of girls would not be playing.
Not if ALL boys and ALL girls were together on teams.

The girls would be, in nearly all cases, hopelessly outclassed and would not be playing.
That's because girls used to be (and probably still are) told that they are the weaker sex so must kowtow to boys. We girls certainly wouldn't get any boyfriends if we were too sportsy and masculine! And, of course, we all went to school with unathletic BOYS. The best way to build and improve athletic skills is to start when the child is young.

You are dreaming. I used to coach soccer. Watching boys play versus watching girls play is like watching lions and then watching bobcats. The boys are MUCH stronger and faster. You cannot compare the two. And the sad thing is that if we employed your one team idea, the great loser by far would be the girls. It is tragic what that kind of fantasy, liberal thinking is doing to girls. Very sad.

You are dreaming. I used to coach soccer. Watching boys play versus watching girls play is like watching lions and then watching bobcats.
Those sports teams will include trans, bi, and enby students. Plus, we'll also have sewing, cleaning, and child care teams.

That's because girls used to be (and probably still are) told that they are the weaker sex so must kowtow to boys. We girls certainly wouldn't get any boyfriends if we were too sportsy and masculine! And, of course, we all went to school with unathletic BOYS. The best way to build and improve athletic skills is to start when the child is young.
Denying the science again . The fastest female sprinter Allyson Felix, has a house full of gold medals from international track and field competition and holds the record for the most gold medals in track and field world championships . Her best time in the 400 meter is 49.26 seconds . Based on 2018 data, nearly 300 high-school boys in the U.S. alone could beat that time . It is just a fact that once male puberty is complete the biological advantages men possess: larger hearts, lungs and bones, greater bone density, more-oxygenated blood, more fast-twitch muscle fiber and vastly greater muscle mass gives them an overwhelming advantage .
So what did Connecticut do ? They allowed 2 males who "self identify " as female to compete in girls track . No surprise here . They crushed the competition and took the 2 top spots . They eliminated girls from advancement to regional championships, scouting and scholarship opportunities and trophies, and they set records that will be unsurpassable to other girl athletes .

Quid and the Dems claim to be for woman's rights . But with this one EO ,Quid has rolled back decades of progress.

Her best time in the 400 meter is 49.26 seconds . Based on 2018 data, nearly 300 high-school boys in the U.S. alone could beat that time It's just stunning to think that there are high schools in America where she would not be running, or at least not in the #1 position. It is hard to imagine how any sensible person could argue against that UNLESS that person already had determined that a firmly held political philosophy will override any and all factual arguments. But then a person of that sort has actually ceased to be sensible, have they not?

Denying the science again . The fastest female sprinter Allyson Felix,
Thank goodness she didn't listen to the adults who told her younger self that she would never land a husband if she got too sportsy and won awards.

It is just a fact that once male puberty is complete the biological advantages men possess: larger hearts, lungs and bones, greater bone density, more-oxygenated blood, more fast-twitch muscle fiber and vastly greater muscle mass gives them an overwhelming advantage .
And how are all those masculine types when sewing, cleaning house, and taking good and patient care with babies and children?

And how are all those masculine types when sewing, cleaning house, and taking good and patient care with babies and children?I can sew. I can clean house. I'm not nearly as good with babies as my wife is, but I can change a diaper. I have no problem with teaching those kinds of things to boys. HOWEVER, you have changed the subject. A Felix is a great athlete, but if she had to compete against men, you would never have heard of her. I hope you will rethink your idea of one team for boys and girls. If you truly care about girls, you will.

So what did Connecticut do ? They allowed 2 males who "self identify " as female to compete in girls track . No surprise here . They crushed the competition and took the 2 top spots . They eliminated girls from advancement to regional championships, scouting and scholarship opportunities and trophies, and they set records that will be unsurpassable to other girl athletes .
Sounds like it's time to create more divisions.


I hope you will rethink your idea of one team for boys and girls. If you truly care about girls, you will.
Teams should be made based on ability. I played grade-school softball/baseball and soccer with the boys. Of course, that ended when I went to high school (because I was a girl). Then, to get back at the administration, I, a mere girl, was the top English, Latin, and trig student.

Of course, that ended when I went to high school (because I was a girl). Then, to get back at the administration, I, a mere girl, was the top English, Latin, and trig student.It ended because, as a female, you by then were hopelessly outclassed by the boys. Sorry, but that's how it is. I have no idea how you doing so extremely well in academics was "getting back" at the administration. I would have been gloriously happy for you.

But if a girl can compete with the boys, then I'm fine with her playing on a boys team. There would not be one girl in a thousand capable of doing it, and in all my years I never saw the girl I thought could do it, but if she can, then so be it. It's when you call for boys to be able to play on the girls teams that you go far, far astray.

I've seen place kickers in football . Never saw them having to make a touch down saving tackle .


Sounds like it's time to create more divisions.

like what ? A Transgender division ? Then it wouldn't be girls athletics would it ?

It ended because, as a female, you by then were hopelessly outclassed by the boys.
...as were many very disappointed boys.

I have no idea how you doing so extremely well in academics was "getting back" at the administration.
The administration wouldn't even allow me to try out for the boys' team. "You're a GIRL, ick!"

Time to cut out all the cut-throat competitiveness and get back to just enjoying the fellowship and the game. Melania was all wrong with Be Best. It should have been Be YOUR Best.

Left wingers at it again.

"Washington city's mayor rushed to safety after homeless-advocate rioters storm City Hall."

The dem mayor immediately took a hard line.

He added the city is giving those in the encampment services and supplies and asking them to leave voluntarily. Fleetwood told KIRO the city planned to ask the members of the homeless encampment that took root late last year to move 25 feet away from the building after several issues, including harassment of county employees and several fires. "We seek a peaceful end to this encampment and if there is confrontation, we will not be the aggressors," he said.

Amazing that the protestors are still there when they have been asked so sweetly, nicely, and politely to leave. Go figure! I'm sure our new pres will respond in his usual forceful manner.

https://www.foxnews.com/us/washington-citys-mayor-rushed-to-safety-after-homeless-advocate-rioters-storm-city-hall

https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p552x414/143495209_10223882296109951_5892580770300825686_n. jpg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=2&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=PJS2zVB4hvUAX8kR2w-&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&tp=6&oh=f2db6b2679f64fcf59c109fec04afff1&oe=603A034E

Thank you, President Harris/Biden!!

https://cdn.ebaumsworld.com/thumbs/2019/09/16/111410/86068808/roid1-min.jpg

Maybe we can beat those Ruskie women now.

Russian powerlifting champ told to prove she's female before flight (nypost.com) (https://nypost.com/2020/10/01/russian-powerlifting-champ-told-to-prove-shes-female-before-flight/)