The Bush Republican presidency bequeathed to President Obama the then worst economy since the Great Depression. President Obama took the reins and judiciously employing his governmental powers slowly brought the economy back on an even keel – much to the chagrin and anger of Republicans who screamed “Socialism”. They would have preferred total collapse and starvation in the richest country in the world.

After 8 years, the economy was growing and robust. This economy, unlike the economy Obama had inherited, continued to thrive and was the economy inherited by Trump.

Trump promised what he couldn't deliver (bringing back mining jobs, etc.), started disastrous tariff policies because he hadn't a clue how tariffs operated (to this day he still thinks China pays for them), and issued executive orders to damage the economy's future as he stopped the economy from its movement to a clean environment. Others can fill in more blanks describing Trump's economic ignorance.

The economy itself continued to thrive despite Trump's mishandling, and for which he loudly proclaimed credit for himself. When the pandemic hit and Trump, knowing full well its deadly nature, was unable to manage the crisis to help Americans or the American economy. Other nations who managed the crisis well, suffered far less economic damage. Trump's claim to black employment reflects a growing economy and is not specific to black employment conditions only.

The damage to life has been unspeakable, and largely due to Trump's false assertions that it was not serious and that it would soon go away as cases dropped to zero. With the dead now exceeding 300,000, it was the greatest mismanagement of the crisis of any country in the world. He should be indicted for negligent homicide.

The vaccines, another Trump claim of triumph, have been in development for 17 years as covid vaccines. This NOVUS (New) strain was developed by scientists as fast as possible on top of the existing research - to imply that money made them work more efficiently is an insult to scientists.

The only economy Trump has helped is his own and his family's. He did this by stealing money from the taxpayer in violation of the emoluments clause. His daughter did the same. These crimes will wait behind the other crimes Trump awaits the day he leaves office.

sounds like sour grapes, some of Trump policies made a difference even though they may have been based on wrong premises

sounds like sour grapes, some of Trump policies made a difference even though they may have been based on wrong premises

Name a few for the sake of discussion or be forever known as a loony dufusite...like JL! You think its sour grapes to cast aspersion on this liar? It's a friggin CIVIL war we got over here Clete! Dufus actually wants states to go to war over him.

Name a few for the sake of discussion or be forever known as a loony dufusite...like JL! You think its sour grapes to cast aspersion on this liar? It's a friggin CIVIL war we got over here Clete! Dufus actually wants states to go to war over him.

He is deluded Tal you know that. A civil war, nothing you have said is civil. You are so busy fighting with each other you have forgotten the essentials. I think we will call that place the land of the great dufus and move on. One great dufus succeeds another. It's not your fault, it is the system that sets you up for failure

Still waiting for some of Trump policies made a difference even though they may have been based on wrong premises

Tariffs on China, great big wall, tax breaks for the rich, abolish obamacare, I shouldn't have to state the flaming obvious

After Jan. 20, 2021 the dufus will be free to straighten out your messes Clete. Go for it.

The economy itself continued to thrive despite Trump's mishandlingIf that's true, then Obama's handling must have been doubly a mishandling. The Trump economy was certainly better than Obama's. Historic lows in unemployment were experienced. There was not a single quarter of negative GDP growth until COVID devastated the entire world, and even then the third quarter growth was historic. The U.S. embassy was moved to Jerusalem, a southern wall was at least started, the nation became energy independent, violent crime is now lower than in 2010, and federal courts have judges that actually have regard for the rule of law. The United States is now the world's largest producer of crude oil, we have withdrawn from a deeply flawed Iran deal and the useless Paris accords.

As to Obama inheriting a bad economy, it was not even close to what Reagan inherited. Inflation was 13% and unemployment was 8% after four years of Carter. Obama inherited much, much lower numbers and then saw them increase in his first two years.

federal courts have judges that actually have regard for the rule of law.

They have laughed the dufus out of court multiple dozens of times in the last month.

After Jan. 20, 2021 the dufus will be free to straighten out your messes Clete. Go for it.

His solution on China may be the way to go, we could really hurt them with a tariff on autos, but one of our own has a better idea, a resource tax on all exports to China

After Jan. 20, 2021 the dufus will be free to straighten out your messes Clete. Go for it.

On second thought, he may not be so free to help you guys out. He may well have his own legal battles to deal with.


His solution on China may be the way to go, we could really hurt them with a tariff on autos, but one of our own has a better idea, a resource tax on all exports to China

Go for it. I'm sure Xi will have his own counter move ready to go.

On second thought, he may not be so free to help you guys out. He may well have his own legal battles to deal with.

Go for it. I'm sure Xi will have his own counter move ready to go.

Yes, but we are resilient, are you?

https://www.news.com.au/world/asia/peoples-union-of-america-china-artists-eerie-image-of-future-goes-viral/news-story/c6ab9589c49b375b96cc9c60c32735fb

Get back to me in a month or so after we get the dufus and his cult worshippers out of the WH.

‘We want them infected’: Trump appointee demanded ‘herd immunity’ strategy, emails reveal (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/politics/we-want-them-infected-trump-appointee-demanded-herd-immunity-strategy-emails-reveal/ar-BB1bZ5h3?ocid=msedgntp)

Did you read this article? If so, did you see this?

"There is no other way, we need to establish herd, and it only comes about allowing the non-high risk groups expose themselves to the virus. PERIOD," then-science adviser Paul Alexander wrote on July 4 (https://coronavirus.house.gov/sites/democrats.coronavirus.house.gov/files/2020.07.04%20SSCC-0007223-25_Redacted.pdf) to his boss, Health and Human Services assistant secretary for public affairs Michael Caputo, and six other senior officials.
"Infants, kids, teens, young people, young adults, middle aged with no conditions etc. have zero to little risk….so we use them to develop herd…we want them infected…" Alexander added."

Now that would have been, back in June, a perfectly sensible discussion to have had. They would have been nutty not to have considered it. It was a suggestion from a non-senior official which was read, possibly considered, and then discarded. What's your complaint?

More TDS at work here.

"Infants, kids, teens, young people, young adults, middle aged with no conditions etc. have zero to little risk….so we use them to develop herd…we want them infected…" Alexander added."
Trouble is, too often there ARE undiscovered underlying conditions that later, along with aftereffects of covid, cause chronic health problems.

What's your complaint?

.
No TDS at work here

It is a killer strategy, they didn't know then that there was zero risk, it was just assumption with little evidence

You defend having this dufus appointed quack around doing stuff that may be harmful to the process of the CDC?

"But McGowan, the former CDC chief of staff, said that Alexander was effective at delaying the famed Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Reports and watering down guidance that came from his agency.
“He absolutely put pressure on the CDC on different guidance documents, on MMWRs,” McGowan said. “He wanted to change MMWRs that were already posted, which is just outrageous.”
While McGowan said that even though agency officials fended off Alexander’s demands to edit the morbidity and mortality reports, “it’s the type of political meddling that delayed guidance, delayed MMWRs from getting them out as quickly as possible to be effective,” McGowan added."

Maybe you should look up denial. Of course it won't have a picture of you next to it, but it will have your sneakers sticking out the dufus a$$.

No Tal just stick to the facts

they didn't know then that there was zero risk, it was just assumption with little evidence

I doubt that is true, but if it is, we need to hire that guy. He knew in June what others didn't know until much later? Sounds pretty smart to me.

It was a strategy talked about by one person and never seriously considered by the White House. Your complaint is ridiculous. It just amounts to looking for something to complain about. "A basic nobody down the chain of command made a suggestion in an email." Wow.

You know what McGowan supposedly said. Not sure I believe that a "science advisor" can cause much trouble.

TDS.

In the meantime, we still wait for Tal, or anyone else, to suggest what we should be doing that we are not currently doing. Much complaining, but no real ideas. The Trump vaccine is about the only thing with much promise. Harris/Biden will promise to spend massive amounts of money that we DON'T have. Hopefully, the repubs will hold the Senate and put a stop to that craziness. JB will continue his search for "clean" African Americans who can help out, remembering that he was the first to spot BO and see that remarkable quality in him. He's all for integration as long as it's not HIS kids who have to integrate, just like Obama was all for public schools until it came time for his kids to attend, and then they chose a pricey private school.

Not sure about the effectiveness of masks. Mask wearing has been increasing, and yet the number of cases have spiked.

https://swprs.org/face-masks-evidence/

Don't worry about Tal. He is such a typical liberal dem. Talking with him is sometimes like talking with a temperamental little girl. Worse, he has some really sick thoughts. Weird.

Here's a HINT;

The dufus said that more testing would lead to more cases so he purposely didn't lift a finger to ramp up testing while he lied publicly about how much testing he was doing. This lead to artificially lower numbers to downplay the extent of the spread, tout opening the economy in a now verified totally unsafe way while slowing the data that had outlined the safest way to slow the spread. Slow to plan and resource the spread landed us in this disaster and since the election dufus says nothing and does nothing but tout the vaccine which as linked to you before has been developed over years and decades of research and development by many laboratories.

And all you got from this is hail dufus? You still don't get it.

What a wild tale. We have tested more people by far than any other country, so your conspiracy tale will not hold water. And the COVID vaccine (Trump vaccine) was developed over many years?? That is complete lunacy. We have only known about the virus for a little more than a year. Total nonsense.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1028731/covid19-tests-select-countries-worldwide/

History of coronavirus - Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_coronavirus)

Coronavirus History: How did coronavirus start? (webmd.com) (https://www.webmd.com/lung/coronavirus-history)

Number of tests are meaningless unless associated with a tracing and mitigation strategy. Hospitalizations and deaths rates are the numbers that best show the effectiveness of those strategies and by any measure we ain't doing so good even compared to other nations.

Number of tests are meaningless unless associated with a tracing and mitigation strategy.Except that you had conjured up a conspiracy theory that had, at the heart of it, the allegation that we were not testing adequately. When it comes to death rates, we are not at the top but could certainly show improvement.

Might add that the two states with the worst death rates are liberal dem strongholds, so does that mean we need to get them voted out? Are you consistent on that? Do New York and New Jersey need to vote in republican governments?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_death_rates_by_country

https://www.statista.com/statistics/1109011/coronavirus-covid19-death-rates-us-by-state/

it would be a start but there is much more underlying this, perhaps a palestinian/iranian plot to eliminate the jews

Repub areas are rapidly up with dem areas at a very rapid pace. Here's a hint more dense populations more infections.

Coronavirus (COVID-19) (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/coronavirus?ocid=msedgntp)

Repub areas are rapidly up with dem areas at a very rapid pace. Here's a hint more dense populations more infections.

Coronavirus (COVID-19) (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/coronavirus?ocid=msedgntp)

You know Tal looking at those statistics you have to ask a question. Why is the outcome in Australia so different? The death rate is low, the rate of infection almost non existent. Is it the glorious weather? could be, since the state with the highest infection rate is also notorious for its bad weather. Is it lifestyle? while Australia has a highly urbanised population, not a large percentage live in dense housing. Maybe it is what we eat, less emphasis in fast food, pork is a lesser choice. One thing we do that everyone hates, we disinfect arriving aircraft before disembarkation, this must lessen the infection rate

Everyone needs to be looking at New Zealand. They have announced they are COVID free.


Repub areas are rapidly up with dem areas at a very rapid pace. Here's a hint more dense populations more infections.Funny how rational you become when Trump is not the topic. At any rate, of the top five states, four are liberal dem strongholds, so I still want to know if you are advocating we throw out those mini Dufusites? And population density is NOT a sure fire predictor. SD, LA, MS, and ND are in the top ten of states, and they are rural states.

New Zealand didn't diddle around

How did New Zealand become Covid-19 free? - BBC News (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-53274085)

Here's an interesting development in the corona fight.

National Wastewater Surveillance System (NWSS) – a new public health tool to understand COVID-19 spread in a community | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/wastewater-surveillance.html)

New Zealand didn't diddle around

How did New Zealand become Covid-19 free? - BBC News (https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-53274085)

Here's an interesting development in the corona fight.

National Wastewater Surveillance System (NWSS) – a new public health tool to understand COVID-19 spread in a community | CDC (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/cases-updates/wastewater-surveillance.html)

New Zealand is a microcosm, many ideas are tested there. Geographically it doesn't resemble many places in the world and its isolation means that spread is easier to control.

Testing waste water tells you where the virus has been, unless there are few cases in the community it isn't a control tool In my own city positive tests showed up after a big event but no case was detected in the community. All that told us was a visitor had positive antibodies because no other cases were detected at that time and the state became virus free for a time. Restricting freedom of movement is the best control tool

Not a lot of good options for sure but the key here is if the population buys into the solution in great enough numbers to make a difference.

if the population buys into the solutionWhat solution other than the Trump vaccine would you prefer?

What solution other than the Trump vaccine would you prefer?
It ain't the Trump vaccine.

What solution other than the Trump vaccine would you prefer?

I think the dufus should have leveled with the people from the beginning rather than downplaying the virus as a flu and no big deal touting it would go away and disappear on it's own. A blatant LIE!


It ain't the Trump vaccine.

I fully agree! He puts his name on stuff to get credit for it.

I think the dufus should have leveled with the people from the beginning rather than downplaying the virus as a flu and no big deal touting it would go away and disappear on it's own. A blatant LIE!I ask for solution, and you give a diatribe. So it's settled. The Trump vaccine is the big hope.

What solution other than the Trump vaccine would you prefer?
The solution we would have preferred, like Tal said, was that Trump would have been honest and forthright from the beginning.

I ask for solution, and you give a diatribe. So it's settled. The Trump vaccine is the big hope.

You don't think the truth would have made a difference?

You don't think the truth would have made a difference?I'm sure it would have, and you can fire away on that, but I asked for solutions in the present time. I have asked and asked and asked for this, but all in vain. It is apparent that no one here has any idea what to do other than what is already being done, and yes that includes me. The Trump vaccine is the only solution I see on the horizon. That and the exercising of some common sense in identifying the at-risk group, trying hard to protect them, and letting everyone else get on with their lives wearing masks and using hand sanitizer.

I hope someday to meet a liberal dem who is willing to simply admit that he/she does not have an answer rather than hiding behind a barrage of Trump-hating verbiage.

To stop the spread of sickness and death you must stop human activity and interaction. 250,000 new cases yesterday and even more deaths. (https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/the-u-s-has-recorded-over-250-000-cases-in-a-day-for-the-first-time/ar-BB1c42v6?ocid=msedgntp) (316,339 currently)

The Trump vaccine is the only solution I see on the horizon. That and the exercising of some common sense in identifying the at-risk group, trying hard to protect them, and letting everyone else get on with their lives wearing masks and using hand sanitizer.



There are now two approved vaccines and there are all the other Trump favoured cures which obviously don't lead to herd immunity whatever that is, but no mind the virus will just go away as quickly as it came

but no mind the virus will just go away as quickly as it cameWe can hope that is true. About half of our population says they won't take the vaccine anyway, so that's another issue

The real issue is how much vaccine is available as we may well need hundreds of millions just in the US, and we have a rather slow start on that front.

no one has had a fast start, Tal own start here stalled on a technicality