After watching the Kentucky Attorney General today, I was pretty much convinced this was one shooting that was, although tragic, "justified" in the circumstances, in the sense that the police were not culpable.

I hate to say this but then I heard that the AG gave a speech at the Republican Convention and is a supporter of Trump. I started to think again. Did the AG lie?

Since Trump is a notorious liar and his supporters don't seem to be bothered by that, could others be following Trump and also lying? There is precedent. The nutty actions of people who are enthralled by Trump - from mass killers to ordinary people.

I especially thought of rally folks being interviewed and claiming COVID-19 is a HOAX! They seemed like the nicest people, and yet.................................

Then questions arose. One civilian witness corroborated the police version of events by saying they heard the police banging and announcing they were police. That was powerful testimony. Until....................

Then it came out that there were 11 or 12 witnesses who did NOT hear anything. Hmm. Did the AG bring that up to the Grand Jury? If he did, he didn't say anything.

There is also a Kentucky law about a third-party bystander being killed which would put the police shooters in danger of being charged.

Of course, more is to come. I hope cool heads prevail tonight in Louisville. One thing is certain - Breonna Taylor was a wonderful human being.

One thing is certain - Breonna Taylor was a wonderful human being.How do you know that? Honest question.

Might add that it is difficult to testify about what you did not hear.

The big question is whether or not the police followed official policies and procedures. I don't know if they did or didn't, but if they did, and that seems to be the case, then I don't see how they can be charged. Perhaps the family should sue the city of Louisville.

It's pretty hard to keep a cool head and civil tongue when after 6 months we get fed a crap sandwich and even more questions than answers. I will note the civil settlement was about changes as well as money, so that's something I guess, but somehow not very reassuring at this point. The protests across the country continue, as we await the FBI report.

It's pretty hard to keep a cool head and civil tongue when after 6 months we get fed a crap sandwich and even more questions than answers.

More and more crap is coming out as the questions begin. Why did AG Cameron not mention that 12 witnesses did not hear anything? What else did he say that swayed the Grand Jury?

A New York Times investigation concluded that a neighbor, who was on the staircase immediately above Taylor's apartment, heard the officers shout "Police!" once (contrary to what law enforcement told investigators) and knocked three times, while approximately eleven other neighbors, heard no announcement. According to this investigation, every neighbors' account conflicts with law enforcement.

An attorney for the family says the witness initially denied hearing anything, but changed his story after several more interviews by the police pressuring him to change.

They had a no knock warrant so technically they did not need to knock although they say they did . Once her boyfriend opened fired ,they returned fire . She was a victim caught in the cross fire . Blame the boyfriend .

I don't know if she was a wonderful human being or not . There was a reason that the police decided to get a warrant to enter her apartment .

An internal police report and corroborating evidence show that Taylor had more extensive ties than previously made public with Jamarcus Glover .The findings of the report, corroborated by jail phone recordings ,a tracking device on Glover's car ,and video of Taylor at the drug house ,detail multiple links between Taylor and Glover .Glover was arrested the same night as Taylor’s shooting. He was picked up at the drug house . He was released on bail but is now a fugitive. The documents show that she was allowing him to use her address to register vehicles and for banking purposes. She was also allegedly moving money around for him while he was incarcerated. This contradicts reports that they had broken up 2 years ago.

In the meantime, in the weeks since Taylor's death, hundreds of other black Americans have been killed by hundreds of other black Americans. That gets no press since there is no political mileage to be gained from it, and that's what this is largely about. There is no call to improves inner city schools, or to return to the two-parent family system that served us so well for so long. Why? Because there is nothing to be gained politically from that. That would not drive voters into the arms of the democrat party.

From my preliminary understanding it is lawful for police to return fire when fired upon, but it is also lawful for a citizen to defend his home. We do know 911 was called before entry was made and nobody inside the apartment heard them announce they were police. Who calls the cops if they knew the cops were the ones doing the knocking? Whose right of self defense applies first? Why didn't the cops retreat and re-announce themselves instead of opening a barrage of fire?

Then we have the warrant. How was it obtained? What evidence or probable cause did they have?

In the meantime, in the weeks since Taylor's death, hundreds of other black Americans have been killed by hundreds of other black Americans. That gets no press since there is no political mileage to be gained from it, and that's what this is largely about. There is no call to improves inner city schools, or to return to the two-parent family system that served us so well for so long. Why? Because there is nothing to be gained politically from that. That would not drive voters into the arms of the democrat party.

The protests aren't about CRIME but police brutality and all the root causes of it. Crime does get coverage locally, and the complaints about many inner city related issues has been constantly raised, but the especially egregious nature of police brutality is horrific and ongoing. Talk about politicizing a serious issue. You are definitely guilty.

@ Tom

It took 6 months for that?

@ Tom

It took 6 months for that? I don't know all the details . I am guessing the Grand Jury got the information. Beyond that ;if evidence used is not leaked then yes ;it may take some time for it to go public .

but the especially egregious nature of police brutality is horrific and ongoing. Talk about politicizing a serious issue. You are definitely guilty.If this Taylor case is your evidence, you are in serious trouble. The GJ did not agree with you at all.

I can't politicize that which has already been politicized out the wazoo.

That's another thing sticking in my craw, the whole SECRET grand jury thing run by the DA, who is a friend of the cops.

every grand Jury run properly is secret .

If it's SECRET how do you know it's properly run?

got me .maybe we should ask the FISA court

I would think the secrecy is to protect the innocent. You would like that if you were an innocent person accused of a crime that you did not commit.

got me .maybe we should ask the FISA court

No objections.


I would think the secrecy is to protect the innocent. You would like that if you were an innocent person accused of a crime that you did not commit.

Or cover a cop or a DA's arse, we don't know since it's secret.

point taken . The saying that a DA can indict a ham sandwich has stuck for a reason . Still the presumption of innocents has to be maintained . As we have seen. Too often there is a mob mentality, or a trial by media ,and public pressure ,can and does often influence DAs as well.

It's not a presumption of innocents that the real issue, it's the probable cause and the events that follow that matter. A court is where the presumption of innocents comes in, but arresting someone or even searching them has nothing to do with that presumption. You talk of mobs? The cops their union and the brass and the DA have a lot of influence with lawmakers. A lot more and more insidious than a mob in the streets.

They've been in the streets for months now and haven't budged anybody who counts to change a darn thing yet until this civil suit. At least it looks like the end of no knock warrants.

This is going to turn ugly when these mobs of law-breakers begin taking their "destruction tour" to areas where people live. Sometimes I think that's what needs to happen to them. If they come to my house, or I imagine to Tal's house, they'll find out a thing or two. People are getting tired of adults acting like children. It's easy to be philosophical about all of this when it's someone else's business they are burning or looting. We can certainly hope that all of this ends peacefully, but I'm not feeling good about that. The law-abiders will start pushing back at some point. People will start saying, "You are not going to burn my home or business down."

This is going to turn ugly when these mobs of law-breakers begin taking their "destruction tour" to areas where people live. It is happening . It just doesn't get the same press.

https://www.startribune.com/police-suspected-arson-levels-garage-at-home-with-trump-2020-flags/572507431/?refresh=true&fbclid=IwAR1KsgMtlUq6Zjf_STcpbTdnqU65wRH2INj1YQBwJ uMvO6fkINKN2YvZNo0

tal



At least it looks like the end of no knock warrants.






(https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=3858368)




agree

Hope they catch the criminal arsonist loon. Another thing that's come from this shooting is formation of a civilian/official review board Announced by the DA, as well as,

https://www.courier-journal.com/story/news/local/breonna-taylor/2020/09/15/breonna-taylor-shooting-city-louisville-settles-family/5792731002/


Those changes include:


Early action warning system to identify officers with red flags.
Mandatory commanding officer review of all search warrants.
Mandatory body camera counting from two officers of all currency seizures.
Mandatory written approval of SWAT matrices before search warrants are executed.
Encouraging officers to perform at least two paid hours a week of community service in the communities they serve.
Housing credits for officers to live in certain low-income census tracts in the city.
Hiring a team of social workers to assist with dispatched runs.
Commitment to bargain for increased drug and alcohol testing in the next FOP contract.
Overhaul of processes for simultaneous search warrants.
Mandatory EMS/paramedic presence for all search warrants.
Elimination of the "closed by exception" basis for closing investigations into officer conduct when there is a retirement or resignation.
Personnel files: Metro will negotiate with the FOP in 2021 to expand on the records it may maintain in police officers’ personnel files.



There is more but this seems a good start.

Welcome needed reforms that don't compromise effective law enforcement . Above seems reasonable .

Mandatory commanding officer review of all search warrants.



You do realize that judges already have to approve search warrants?

Mandatory body camera counting from two officers of all currency seizures. Mandatory written approval of SWAT matrices before search warrants are executed. Encouraging officers to perform at least two paid hours a week of community service in the communities they serve.Those are worth considering.

Housing credits for officers to live in certain low-income census tracts in the city. Hiring a team of social workers to assist with dispatched runs.$$$ Where is that coming from in an age where liberal dems are wanting to cut police budgets?

Commitment to bargain for increased drug and alcohol testing in the next FOP contract. Overhaul of processes for simultaneous search warrants.Worth considering though when has alcohol/drug use been a large problem?

Mandatory EMS/paramedic presence for all search warrants.No need for that and an added expense when liberal dems want to reduce budgets.

meanwhile Sleepy Joe slept . Yes with riots in Louisville and protests across the country . The Quid campaign "put a lid" on his campaign yesterday morning at 9:30 AM . They said it was for debate prep. https://apnews.com/article/election-2020-virus-outbreak-ruth-bader-ginsburg-delaware-elections-9282e7a189e965b124f1fc31c857903e

By "debate prep", do you mean they are preparing the questions which will be asked in the same manner that Hillary Clinton was able to enjoy? 8D

I think getting out of the dufus's way while he talks crazy and does stupid stuff is a great strategy. He's been doing just fine so far.

That's a legit point. Someone needs to tell Trump that if he loses to a dim-wit like Biden, it will be the fault of his big mouth.

Trump knew Chris Wallace was going to be a debate moderator . So Trump did an exclusive interview with Wallace daring him to take his best shot . In contrast Biden is memorizing index cards . The secret is to get under his skin by talking about Hunter corruption . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cWx8SL0RYRo

That'll work as long as Biden can remember who Hunter is. 8D

You do realize that judges already have to approve search warrants?



Those are worth considering.
$$$ Where is that coming from in an age where liberal dems are wanting to cut police budgets?
Worth considering though when has alcohol/drug use been a large problem?
No need for that and an added expense when liberal dems want to reduce budgets.



The FBI is looking into the search warrant process as part of the investigation, but can't hurt for a supervisor to do that before one is applied for as a routine procedure. If workers can be routinely tested, so should ones with a badge and a gun. No brainer. You might nip potential issues in the bud, since its likely a symptom of a greater problem that needs to be addressed. As for more social workers and medicos, especially in preparation for high stress situations where anything can happen...also a no brainer, not just for the safety of cops and citizens alike but for those calls that involve mental and medical intervention. I think they should be an integral part of a modern cops training personally, and certainly as important as regular firearms training.

Considering the risk of death and injury should the money be an issue or a political consideration? We get what we pay for. We don't skimp on judges and administrators, why skimp on frontline essential personnel (In any profession frankly)?

The FBI is looking into the search warrant process as part of the investigation, but can't hurt for a supervisor to do that before one is applied for as a routine procedure. If workers can be routinely tested, so should ones with a badge and a gun. No brainer. You might nip potential issues in the bud, since its likely a symptom of a greater problem that needs to be addressed. As for more social workers and medicos, especially in preparation for high stress situations where anything can happen...also a no brainer, not just for the safety of cops and citizens alike but for those calls that involve mental and medical intervention. I think they should be an integral part of a modern cops training personally, and certainly as important as regular firearms training.

Considering the risk of death and injury should the money be an issue or a political consideration? We get what we pay for. We don't skimp on judges and administrators, why skimp on frontline essential personnel (In any profession frankly)?

All excellent points above. I would like to add one.

Everybody agrees there are bad rogue cops, but most cops are good decent people putting their life on the line every day to protect the citizenry.

The second part of that sentence needs clarification.

It's equally true that cops tend to be silent when their brother cops are observed breaking the law, especially in minority communities. This silence does more than anything to perpetuate the distrust and fear minorities, and increasingly people in general, have when dealing with the police.

Then there's the criminal justice system which badly needs reform as it skewers in favor of the moneyed classes and works against the poor. But that's a topic for another day.

I'm not following you on the alcohol testing. Are you saying a cop should not be able to drink some when off duty? As to drugs, it varies from one city to the next, but from what I can tell, many departments already do so. They used to randomly test our bus drivers for drug use.


Considering the risk of death and injury should the money be an issue or a political consideration? We get what we pay for.So you're OK with a tax increase to pay for this? Are you standing against the liberal dems who are calling for reductions in police funding?

I'm not following you on the alcohol testing. Are you saying a cop should not be able to drink some when off duty? As to drugs, it varies from one city to the next, but from what I can tell, many departments already do so. They used to randomly test our bus drivers for drug use.

Not saying that, but given the nature of their job and they have guns, I think more scrutiny and extra care and caution should be the norm. The long term effects of alcohol/drugs is devastating enough and easily ignored by high functioning individuals until it's too late, and that's without any other issues. We should do much better than we do for our vets so let's not kid ourselves to believe we are doing enough. We are NOT.


So you're OK with a tax increase to pay for this? Are you standing against the liberal dems who are calling for reductions in police funding?

Whatever it takes to better facilitate cops serving and protecting, because I think there are numerous issues as Athos rightly points out that have gone unaddressed for to long. Many have been outright neglected and ignored by some of you people. It's a lot more complex and far reaching than you can know. Just a symptom of a bigger problem.

It's equally true that cops tend to be silent when their brother cops are observed breaking the law, especially in minority communities.There is some truth to the first part of that sentence and I doubt that many people would disagree with it. The second part, however, is questionable. I don't know of any data to back that up.

There is some truth to the first part of that sentence and I doubt that many people would disagree with it. The second part, however, is questionable. I don't know of any data to back that up.

so you believe that minorities bring trouble upon themselves, I don't know of any data to back that up.

so you believe that minorities bring trouble upon themselves,What? That wasn't even being discussed. The subject is cops covering up for each other's misbehavior. Pay attention.

Maybe it should be as a predicate for examining a bigger picture. It might just give you insight into the WHY of protests as a venue to vent and highlight injustices that go back decades.

In these shootings, it is very nearly always the case that the person killed was violently resisting arrest. The deceased can hardly be called an innocent victim of police brutality, and frequently, after the matter is investigated, it's found that the police behaved properly. Now in the case of the several thousand black Americans murdered, nearly always by other black Americans, they are truly innocent victims who get killed just because someone else wants them dead. This includes young children killed in someone's front yard, or even killed sitting in their own home. There are no national protests about this. There is no national organization dedicated to stopping it. Why? Because there is no political advantage to be gained from it since it cannot be blamed on white people. So this sickening state of affairs will continue for the very reason that no one cares. Liberal dems certainly do not care.

I suppose you will continue to ignore the amazing changes that have occurred over the decades, and also the self-destructive life habits of many people in the black community. We'll just keep on talking about the very, very small sliver of the picture that amounts to police misbehavior. There is political hay to be made there. This is all about beating Trump and nothing else. It's a racist approach to life that pre-determines guilt/innocence based on the color of the skin of the policemen and criminal.

the self-destructive life habits of many people in the black community.

what about the self-destructive habits of many people who are not BLACK, you ignore the real issue, a community full of self-destructive habits and label it a minority problem. It is no wonder BLM runs riot

what about the self-destructive habits of many people who are not BLACK, you ignore the real issue, a community full of self-destructive habits and label it a minority problem. It is no wonder BLM runs riotAnd yet again you are off topic. The topic WAS the black community and the injustice directed at it by police, so yeah, I confined my comments to that area. Most people in America realize that speaking about one area does not amount to pretending that other problems do not exist. We're able to think in those broad terms, and especially when we are not just dialed in to being critical. You?

You're right the cops are but part of the problem, but we cannot just address cops without addressing the broader issue of the uneven application of law that makes for those circumstances. I get a narrow focus of behavior allows you to apply your social solutions, but does nothing to shed light on the greater factors of economics or systematic inequality which prevails. As Clete alludes its just not confined to black people since a larger number of white people along with other minorities, are in the exact same boat. That's what the protestors are saying, and joined by non black supporters as well (As seen not just across the country, but globally as well and that's a verifiable FACT.), even though your main focus is on the violence while dismissing the entire message of the non violent protestors.

I get a narrow focus of behavior allows you to apply your social solutions, but does nothing to shed light on the greater factors of economics or systematic inequality which prevails.I think you are living in a fantasy world. A "narrow focus of behaviors"??? Well, in the black community, if you solve the twin problems of inferior schools and the dissolution of the family unit, then you solve the great majority of problems black Americans face. But that would take courage and self discipline, and those two qualities are not popular. So I guess, in your world, that amounts to a "narrow focus". In my world, it amounts to an opportunity to make great progress. But it's easier to continue what amounts to racism by focusing on what white cops do to black individuals who are generally resisting arrest.

And yes, those problems afflict our culture as a whole, but we are not discussing the entire culture, are we?

Yes we are discussing the problems that afflict the entire culture. I will repeat, the problems in the black community are shared by the wider society. Solve THAT, and you solve the problems of the black community.

Solve THAT, and you solve the problems of the black community.Nope. Not even close. Black America's biggest problems are independent of the rest of culture. The rest of culture has not destroyed black families. The rest of culture has not created inferior inner city schools. This was done largely in communities with black majorities electing liberal democrat officials.

The rest of culture has not created inferior inner city schools.

The President says school choice is the civil rights issue of our time. The Democrats/ progressives / socialists are on the wrong side of the issue.

Does everybody have that choice? That's the Flaw in the system.

Does everybody have that choice? That's the Flaw in the system.The flaw in the system is that NO ONE has school choice other than those with the money to afford it. School choice was in effect in D.C. until Obama did away with it. It should be the great outcry of poor people. 9 out of 10 black boys in democrat controlled Baltimore do not read on grade level. Reaction of black leadership? "Yawn."

What has the dufus done to fix it? Has he?

Teacher education needs to be fixed also.

glad you asked .
Trump is calling on Congress to pass the 'Education Freedom Scholarships and Opportunity Act ' . The bill would amend the Internal Revenue Code of 1986 to establish tax credits to encourage individual and corporate taxpayers to contribute to scholarships for elementary and secondary students through eligible scholarship-granting organizations, and for other purposes.

Trump's school choice plan, which has more than 120 Congressional co-sponsors, would bolster existing State scholarship programs and encourage more States to pursue education freedom policies. The plan creates a $5 billion annual tax credit for donations to state-based, locally-controlled scholarships.These scholarships will help families pay for tuition, transportation, tutoring, and apprenticeships.

Trump has directed $200 million in annual funding since 2017 to prioritize STEM (science, technology, engineering and mathematics )and Computer Science education.

The Administration has invested nearly $1.5 billion in the development of public charter schools, serving more than 3 million students.

Trump secured permanent funding for Historically Black Colleges and Universities.

His administration simplified the Free Application for Federal Student Aid (FAFSA) form, helping 20 million families who apply every year to qualify for Federal student aid.

He signed legislation reauthorizing the 'D.C. Opportunity Scholarship' Program ;reversing the emperor's policy that denied scholarships to low-income students.

Teacher education needs to be fixed also. They 1str have to be freed of the restrictive yoke that the teacher unions put on the system

No, no, no! I mean the courses students are offered in a teacher education program. Very few are practical or prepare a person for the hard work of teaching.

What has the dufus done to fix it? Has he?I can't believe you made that comment. Your hero, Obama, took away what little school choice the feds had started n the ONLY PLACE they can do it which is D.C.

I can't believe you made that comment. Your hero, Obama, took away what little school choice the feds had started n the ONLY PLACE they can do it which is D.C.
Why hasn't Trump restored that?

If it turns out he did, will you join me in supporting that?

If it turns out he did, will you join me in supporting that?
Only if you stop dissing Hillary and Obama.

No deal.

No deal.
No problem. He hasn't.

How mistaken you are.

get a grip

I think you are living in a fantasy world. A "narrow focus of behaviors"??? Well, in the black community, if you solve the twin problems of inferior schools and the dissolution of the family unit, then you solve the great majority of problems black Americans face. But that would take courage and self discipline, and those two qualities are not popular. So I guess, in your world, that amounts to a "narrow focus". In my world, it amounts to an opportunity to make great progress. But it's easier to continue what amounts to racism by focusing on what white cops do to black individuals who are generally resisting arrest.

And yes, those problems afflict our culture as a whole, but we are not discussing the entire culture, are we?

I see it as a purely economic equation. The money just doesn't trickle down sufficiently enough to enough of the population. The social safety net is a joke and hasn't been sufficiently bolstered so of course during these economic downturns and disruptions who bears the brunt of them? Do you really think those who barely have resources during good times just bounce back quickly after the economy recovers? Think about that for a minute.

How do inner city schools get sufficiently funded when property taxes are insufficient because the people are renters and not homeowners? Multiply that by generations and see what you got. Then there is the elephant in the room you always ignore, poor people don't make or control economic policy and never have nor do they destroy economies and never will. Discipline and strong family units didn't save those ghost towns in the Midwest or anywhere else when jobs went overseas, so lets get off this advice for just for black people JL, until you listen to them because if they didn't have discipline and strong family units as you say, they would not be surviving the economic social crap that does trickle down.

You want to solve problems step back and see who makes the rules for facilitating those problems and you'll see very quickly why Breonna Taylor should be alive today and many others. It's the policy of those that makes the rules that caused her death, and the tactics they use that you seem just fine with. You aren't listening because you're to busy dictating.

Yeah. It's a lot easier to blame it on tax-base issues and so called "trickle down" economics. Couldn't possibly have anything to do with a nearly 75% out of wedlock birth rate and the subsequent absence of fathers. How do you explain the fact that two-parent, well educated black families are doing just fine? It sure seems to have "trickled down" to them pretty well. How do you explain that?

All those Midwest "ghost towns" you love to refer to, guess who runs them? If you guessed "democrats", you go to the front of the line. And an intact, two-parent family survives problems like that in much better shape than otherwise. "Economic social crap"??? You mean historic low unemployment figures and rapid growth in manufacturing jobs?

When a person is not willing to face the truth, then they develop a replacement fantasy world.

When a person is not willing to face the truth, then they develop a replacement fantasy world.

And you think that a dose of reality in allowing millions more to be born will solve the problem, ultimately you are staring collective sterilisation in the face. Jl you too live in a fantasy world, effective contraceptives have been available for decades and still babies are born or abortions happen and to leave the abortion debate and talk about poverty, less spent on the military and more on welfare might solve some of the problems but the wealthy would have to give up their cherished tax cuts because they too live in a fantasy world

Why do you ignore the economics and focus so much on the promotion of the institution that has such a high failure rate. Both have devastating impacts on the social structure so let's deal with both. The subject of this conversation was the needless death of a citizen at the hands of the cops which has nothing to do with either our assertions.


And you think that a dose of reality in allowing millions more to be born will solve the problem, ultimately you are staring collective sterilisation in the face. Jl you too live in a fantasy world, effective contraceptives have been available for decades and still babies are born or abortions happen and to leave the abortion debate and talk about poverty, less spent on the military and more on welfare might solve some of the problems but the wealthy would have to give up their cherished tax cuts because they too live in a fantasy world

The poverty is the issue.

Jl you too live in a fantasy world, effective contraceptives have been available for decades and still babies are born or abortions happen and to leave the abortion debate and talk about poverty, less spent on the military and more on welfare might solve some of the problems but the wealthy would have to give up their cherished tax cuts because they too live in a fantasy world.I have long advocated for less spending on military. We would have to tell nations like Australia to be prepared to pony up a similar amount per person to what we spend so they can count on us less, but I'm all for it. Now if you want to talk about fantasy worlds, to imagine that we can balance our budget with the current spending levels, even if we dramatically increase taxes, is pure fantasy. It tells me you have no knowledge at all of the numbers.

What would solve the problem, take care of much of the poverty problem, and improve educational results dramatically would be a return to the two parent family. It is a simple, simple solution that is resisted because it requires discipline and self-denial.

What would solve the problem, take care of much of the poverty problem, and improve educational results dramatically would be a return to the two parent family. It is a simple, simple solution that is resisted because it requires discipline and self-denial.
And those two parents don't have to be gender binary.

I have long advocated for less spending on military. We would have to tell nations like Australia to be prepared to pony up a similar amount per person to what we spend so they can count on us less, but I'm all for it. Now if you want to talk about fantasy worlds, to imagine that we can balance our budget with the current spending levels, even if we dramatically increase taxes, is pure fantasy. It tells me you have no knowledge at all of the numbers.

What would solve the problem, take care of much of the poverty problem, and improve educational results dramatically would be a return to the two parent family. It is a simple, simple solution that is resisted because it requires discipline and self-denial.

perhaps we should stop wearing out our aircraft and our ships responding to your phony wars or maybe you could pony up for their replacement

Aircraft? Ships? If the day ever comes when we are dependent on your meager resources, then all is lost.

Aircraft? Ships? If the day ever comes when we are dependent on your meager resources, then all is lost.

Then you are already lost, why do you think you keep trying to rope us into your phony freedom of navigation exercises, I think it is just to put our ships on the front line and keep yours in reserve, or maybe it is because yours provide too big a target. We can't match you in manpower but we make up for it in other ways. Our SAS spearheaded your invasion of Iraq, I wonder why that was considered necessary? You see you talk a good fight, but you kill more of your own than you do the enemy

8 frigates and 3 destroyers. Yeah boy, we are sure depending on you guys. Look, I mean no offense, but your country is a minor player from a military perspective. To suggest that we were really depending on your SAS is just laughable.

You can't match us in manpower? You think? 60,000 to 1.4 million, so yeah, I'd agree that you can't match us in manpower.


You see you talk a good fight, but you kill more of your own than you do the enemyCompletely ridiculous comment. You plainly don't know what you're talking about. But again, your kind of attitude is why I want to see us reduce our overseas obligations and think more of just taking care of ourselves and and those who actually appreciate what is done for them like Israel.

8 frigates and 3 destroyers. Yeah boy, we are sure depending on you guys. Look, I mean no offense, but your country is a minor player from a military perspective. To suggest that we were really depending on your SAS is just laughable.

You can't match us in manpower? You think? 60,000 to 1.4 million, so yeah, I'd agree that you can't match us in manpower.

Completely ridiculous comment. You plainly don't know what you're talking about. But again, your kind of attitude is why I want to see us reduce our overseas obligations and think more of just taking care of ourselves and and those who actually appreciate what is done for them like Israel.

Yes Israel appreciates you, but they don't fight beside you. We don't need a standing military of 1.4 million, we don't go around the world confronting other nations. What overseas obligations do you really have, how much restoration have you done for the countries you have devastated lately? What have you done for us in the last fifty years, laid waste to our industries while you promoted China, how is that going for you? I suppose you think we should have adopted the nuclear option like the other contestants in WWII, well we are not MAD

What overseas obligations do you really haveExactly!! I'd like to see us shrink our military and tell nations like Australia to pony up and learn to defend themselves without our help. Perhaps we have finally agreed.

Australia has been a good friend and ally during several wars. Aussie blood has been shed next to GI blood on the battlefields. Not everything is about money.

Australia has been a good friend and ally during several wars. Aussie blood has been shed next to GI blood on the battlefields. Not everything is about money.

Thanks athos, at least some recognise we have been a good friend to america, but, when your god is money, everything is about money. We certainly spend enough of our revenue on the military and you know it doesn't buy much these days when you buy american


Exactly!! I'd like to see us shrink our military and tell nations like Australia to pony up and learn to defend themselves without our help. Perhaps we have finally agreed.

Yes put america first you have not stopped doing that. MAGA what a great slogan, how much more do you have to spend to MAGA?

Australia has been a good friend and ally during several wars. Aussie blood has been shed next to GI blood on the battlefields. Not everything is about money.They have been a good ally. Australia is a sovereign nation with a rich history and full of capable people, and I certainly don't think we have any business trying to tell them what to do. However, the reverse is also true. I'm tired of going broke trying to defend nations that don't spend an amount of money on their own defense comparable to what we are spending, and who, in many cases, have no appreciation for what is being done or has been done. They are the kind of ally that we have too many of. They want us to maintain a super-large military that we cannot afford so they can do less than they should be doing. I appreciate good allies. I don't appreciate the kind of arrogance that accepts our help and then wants to engage in an endless crusade of criticism.

MAGA is a great slogan. A lot of people were glad to hear it, and happy to find out that the years of the Obama campaign of "Apologize for America" had come to a very welcome end.

"Not everything is about money." That is certainly true, but it applies to Australia as well as us. When a country is sinking deeper and deeper in ruinous debt, that country better wake up and start using some sense.

In the meantime, murders are up 50% this year in democrat run Chicago. This weekend a mother stabbed her own 5 year old daughter to death. Evidently none of the murders could be blamed on white privilege or President Trump, so they will sadly get but little news coverage. BLM has shown no interest whatsoever. How unsurprising is that?

They have been a good ally. Australia is a sovereign nation with a rich history and full of capable people, and I certainly don't think we have any business trying to tell them what to do. However, the reverse is also true. I'm tired of going broke trying to defend nations that don't spend an amount of money on their own defense comparable to what we are spending, and who, in many cases, have no appreciation for what is being done or has been done. They are the kind of ally that we have too many of. They want us to maintain a super-large military that we cannot afford so they can do less than they should be doing. I appreciate good allies. I don't appreciate the kind of arrogance that accepts our help and then wants to engage in an endless crusade of criticism.

MAGA is a great slogan. A lot of people were glad to hear it, and happy to find out that the years of the Obama campaign of "Apologize for America" had come to a very welcome end.

"Not everything is about money." That is certainly true, but it applies to Australia as well as us. When a country is sinking deeper and deeper in ruinous debt, that country better wake up and start using some sense.

What you fail to realise is your level of military expenditure is unnecessary and is fueling an arms race, why do you need more aircraft carriers than the rest of the world combined? thousands of planes and tanks? you think we should all do what you do, we should all share in your madness. If we followed your advice we would all nuclear armed pointing ICBM at each other.

As to our debt level, look to your own before you worry about ours

Well again, we are in agreement. I would cut way back and tell nations like yours that we will no longer be the world'd security agreement. Prepare to carry your own load.

As to debt, I was referring to our debt, not yours.

Hope we never have to ask the Aussies to join us in another military endeavor, they may remember such ungrateful, disrespectful, treatment. When we were attacked on 9/11 everybody pitched in to help, maybe not with money, but intelligence through their own networks to find Bin Laden. They didn't hesitate or cut deals either.

Now we publicly beetch about other countries over a few bucks which just shows how small and petty we are so the dufus can look tough for you right wingers. Yeah I guess it's okay to bully our allies and ask our foes for help getting re elected as the dufus downplays the cyber war like he downplays the virus.

Two more weeks and I get to cast my vote against the lying cheating dufus and his loony right wing agenda so he can face prosecution for his crimes. Can't come fast enough.

Did you have your coffee this morning? "A few bucks"? "Ungrateful, disrespectful treatment"? Only a liberal would think that asking other countries to undertake to maintain their own defense was in any way disrespectful. One thing I know for sure. If we ever threaten to raise your taxes in order to maintain this enormous military, you will immediately become much more conservative in your political outlook.


Yeah I guess it's okay to bully our allies and ask our foes for help getting re elected as the dufus downplays the cyber war like he downplays the virus.You're back in your fantasy world again. What a pleasant place that must be for you!!

It's not a bad thing to ask for such a thing, but the problem is the HOW you do it.

but the problem is the HOW you do it.You mean open and honest?

Honestly, I'm not going to pay much attention to a guy who called me a "self-righteous b@stard" and posts comments like this. "Two more weeks and I get to cast my vote against the lying cheating dufus and his loony right wing agenda so he can face prosecution for his crimes. Can't come fast enough." If you want me to listen to your moralizing, then check yourself first. I can easily handle your ugly comments, but this "Do as I say, but not as I do," stuff gets old.

Just being open and honest as are you right?