Woodward took down Nixon, now he's doing the same to Trump.

Trump knew about the serious nature of COVID-19 back in January. Over the first weeks and months, he also became aware of the devastating effect the virus had on children. During all this time that he knew the truth about the virus, he continually lied to the public.

Trump said it was a "hoax". It was started by the Democrats. Children were immune. No one has been killed by the virus. It will go away like a miracle, or when the hot weather arrives. No one should lock down, the economy should immediately be opened. Masks are optional, a vaccine will be ready very soon, maybe by October. Etc., etc., etc. By now, his lies are known to be strictly for public consumption in order for him to be re-elected.

The truth was that Trump was saying the exact opposite in private. His failure to tell the truth and act accordingly has caused as many as 100,000 deaths - some say as many as 80% of the nearly 200,000 to date.

The above lies by Trump have been caught on tape and are being played over all the news stations world-wide. This is one time, he can't lie himself out of it.

In one week, there have been ruinous examples of the evil nature of this man. First, the mean and nasty comments about American fighting men who defend and sometimes die for their country. Second, this explosive story from Woodward.

Can't imagine all those true believers didn't see this coming. I guess all that red meat from the last few years kept them fat and happy and dumb just like a con man likes his suckers.

Vlad's investment has paid off.

What astounds me is the Trump supporters who ignore all that and so much more -- and are sticking with him. "Well, he's against abortion, so I'll vote for him in November." Or, "Hey, look at how the economy has improved under him!"

We knew Trump played down the virus threat at the time because he said so publicly many times . Here is an exchange with Jim Acosta in April .

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/03/30/trump-coronavirus-acosta-question-sot-vpx.cnn

If he really thought C-19 was no worse than the flu he wouldn't have implemented travel restrictions from China on Jan 31 and Europe on March 11. While he was taking action Dems like Madam Mim was walking around Chinatown telling everyone there was no danger on Feb 24 . il Duce said “We have been here before, and I want to remind New Yorkers that it is much more likely that they will be exposed to the influenza virus than to the coronavirus.” on Jan 30 . That same week Quid called the travel ban xenophobic /racist . Sandinista Bill was encouraging NY's to ride the subways ,go the China day and St Patty's day parades . The emperor was saying people should not wear masks because health workers need them . In contrast ;by underplaying it Trump mobilized private-public efforts for testing, PPE and vaccines, and prevented a financial meltdown in March.
I liken this to the decision made to not tell the people of NYC the damage that was done to the slurry wall of the WTC on 9-11. If you are not aware ;the slurry wall held back the Hudson River. It was severely weakened during the 9-11 attack . Had it been breached ,the river would 've flooded down town NYC and permanently damaged the Path train tubes . Also underplayed and not revealed to the public was and are the many terrorist threats . It is an outright lie to say that Trump downplaying the virus cause more deaths .

Don't worry . Next week they will come up with another bombshell revelation meant to derail Trump's reelection . Just like Woodward's and the 'Atlantic' attempts ,they will fail to move the needle.

It is an outright lie to say that Trump downplaying the virus cause more deaths .

Gee, tomder, that was sure interesting about the Hudson River and the slurry and the 9-11 attack and influenza and walking around Chinatown - but, here's the problem: none of that has anything to do with what this thread is about. Nothing. Nada.

Go back and read again about Woodward's interview. Done? Ok.

By now you must be aware that Trump is on tape publicly denying the COVID-19 danger, even at one time calling it a "hoax". All the time, he was privately admitting the exact opposite of his public pronouncements. Had he been truthful from the get-go and told the truth even ONE WEEK sooner, he would have saved 36,000 from dying. TWO WEEKS and the figure saved jumps to 82% of the total.

I understand that you want to defend Trump, but you're failing miserably. Let's face it - Trump's behavior in this business where we have his actual words is indefensible.

Today, at the Trump rally, a supporter was interviewd by a (masked) reporter. The supporter, almost yelling, loudly stated that the pandemic was a HOAX!! He seemed like a normal-looking gentleman - until he opened his mouth.

What is it about you and that guy that makes you put aside your brain-power and go with whatever Trump says, even when he's so friggin' obviously wrong?

another mischaracteration is saying that he said c-19 was a hoax .Maybe you should read what he actually said .


Now the Democrats are politicizing the coronavirus, you know that right? Coronavirus, they’re politicizing it. We did one of the great jobs. You say, “How’s President Trump doing?” They go, “Oh, not good, not good.” They have no clue. They don’t have any clue. They can’t even count their votes in Iowa. They can’t even count. No, they can’t. They can’t count their votes.
One of my people came up to me and said, “Mr. President, they tried to beat you on Russia, Russia, Russia.” That didn’t work out too well. They couldn’t do it. They tried the impeachment hoax. That was on a perfect conversation. They tried anything. They tried it over and over. They’d been doing it since you got in. It’s all turning. They lost. It’s all turning. Think of it. Think of it. And this is their new hoax.


Reporter, Feb. 29: You were down in Charleston last night, using the word “hoax” when talking about Democrats. Somebody now is dead from this. Do you regret that kind of talk?
Trump: No, no, no. “Hoax” referring to the action that they take to try and pin this on somebody, because we’ve done such a good job. The hoax is on them, not — I’m not talking about what’s happening here; I’m talking what they’re doing. That’s the hoax. That’s just a continuation of the hoax, whether it’s the impeachment hoax or the “Russia, Russia, Russia” hoax. This is what I’m talking about. Certainly not referring to this. How could anybody refer to this? This is very serious stuff.


so when the Dems downplay C-19 by comparing it to the flu that is ok .

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ER6Aj4_WoAEuNVc?format=jpg&name=large

As mentioned . The President explained months ago that he intentionally downplayed the threat so as not to cause a panic . Was the press lying too ....was it their intention to mislead the public ?


NY Slimes op ed Feb 5

Who Says It’s Not Safe to Travel to ChinaThe coronavirus travel ban is unjust and doesn’t work anyway.


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/05/opinion/china-travel-coronavirus.html

Feb the Compost wrote

Get a grippe, America. The flu is a much bigger threat than coronavirus, for now.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/time-for-a-reality-check-america-the-flu-is-a-much-bigger-threat-than-coronavirus-for-now/2020/01/31/46a15166-4444-11ea-b5fc-eefa848cde99_story.html (https://l.facebook.com/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.washingtonpost.com%2Fhea lth%2Ftime-for-a-reality-check-america-the-flu-is-a-much-bigger-threat-than-coronavirus-for-now%2F2020%2F01%2F31%2F46a15166-4444-11ea-b5fc-eefa848cde99_story.html%3Ffbclid%3DIwAR0ZD-KpATH4Uy8GtTl4xr_C6iYitN13RYK-Eef8bU5Fb1c9krgm5NeEypw&h=AT2TcXCY6qpnTg5malfy0DWZ0__7wAKb-C1rg5atOFxyYN6kEH-Y0nR8SuNbRxDufBfwgU32U4erS55wTTBUNKPn3pxjtYZ1QFWas iKTTpWKGLilIk0ONWivKsH2h_DANw&__tn__=-UK-R&c[0]=AT0QrQfM0o_Nqu1i2co3Fil6mJCF-y0ziHSoJSoFgOD7MJRptUmFFNUiaNURNt0YsX0dp-x9zML6bkyiAYD2lMvXkDvpZPCfz-x6yHKzcIkCz9LuOie0zSAl2-IX4r9bv7dPbaDJc_hmL8MJQLpemcshPDA3eTdDHFoD47KuvPF-Zvfa1LmBAbeLe5b8)

AP wrote in Feb

Is the new virus more 'deadly' than flu? Not exactly

https://apnews.com/6f7d691099b499bbf38fdfe7875126e0#:~:text=The%20flu %27s%20mortality%20rate%20is,how%20deadly%20a%20di sease%20is.

The Daily Beast wrote

The Virus Killing U.S. Kids Isn’t the One Dominating the Headlines

https://www.thedailybeast.com/flu-not-coronavirus-is-the-virus-killing-us-kids-like-luca-calanni

Tom, that was a really good post.


"Well, he's against abortion, so I'll vote for him in November." Or, "Hey, look at how the economy has improved under him!"Well, can't imagine why someone would vote for a person because that person has shown a willingness to stand against abortion and a clear ability to develop a healthy economy. Such trivialities!

Well, can't imagine why someone would vote for a person because that person has shown a willingness to stand against abortion and a clear ability to develop a healthy economy. Such trivialities!
He might be against abortion, but how many living, breathing souls has he killed and meanwhile destroyed businesses and education?

He might be against abortion, but how many living, breathing souls has he killed and meanwhile destroyed businesses and education?

He actually hasn't done any of that, you credit him with too much power he is just a bad mouthpiece

how many living, breathing souls has he killed and meanwhile destroyed businesses and education?What?? He has killed no one. And as far as destroying businesses are concerned, it's a shame you aren't nearly as concerned with Antifa and BLM who actually DO destroy businesses. So I guess your point is that it's OK to kill 900,000 humans a year as long as you don't kill any adults???

As mentioned . The President explained months ago that he intentionally downplayed the threat so as not to cause a panic

He explained nothing of the sort months ago. In point of FACT, he said it was all a big hoax (Democratic, if you will). You can play the semantic game all day long, but it won't help your case.

Now that he has been caught ON TAPE, he's come up with this "avoiding panic" lie. Who's kidding whom? Trump has NEVER considered avoiding panic in anything he does! Good Lord, have you watched his actions the last 20 or 30 years? HE STARTS A PANIC EVERY CHANCE HE GETS. He encourages violence with his many dog whistles and thanks the bad guys. If you don't know this about Trump by now, you don't know anything about him.

He might be against abortion, but how many living, breathing souls has he killed and meanwhile destroyed businesses and education?

For years, Trump was pro choice. It was only when he discovered the white evangelicals were a one-issue voting bloc, he switched to anti-abortion. He famously hesitated when he was asked whether women getting abortions should be punished. He answered "yes" and when it hit the roof the next day, he quickly backtracked and said"no". The punishment of women has never been part of the discussion but Trump was unaware of this most simple fact.

As far as killing, the scientists are now estimating Trump's failure to act early enough when, as we now know, HE WAS FULLY AWARE OF THE DEADLY NATURE OF COVID-19, resulted in as many as 160,000 of the deaths (now approaching 200,000).

This is a SCIENTIFIC estimate, NOT a political estimate.

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/custom/vgo/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by tomder55 https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/custom/vgo/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?p=3857577#post3857577)
As mentioned . The President explained months ago that he intentionally downplayed the threat so as not to cause a panic



He explained nothing of the sort months ago. In point of FACT, he said it was all a big hoax (Democratic, if you will). You can play the semantic game all day long, but it won't help your case.
I already linked to an exchange he had with Jim Acosta where he said he downplayed it to prevent a panic .

I already linked to an exchange he had with Jim Acosta where he said he downplayed it to prevent a panic .

Do you mean the link provided by CNN? The context has Acosta listing all the lies Trump told as the death count had reached 158,000. That's when Trump came up with the phony excuse that he was avoiding a panic. Not a very good strategy even if it were true since the numbers were out of sight by then.

We have another issue pending, tomder. Should I bring it up, or will you?

I hope your "pending issue" turns out to be more valid than the last "pending issue" you brought up, which was the now thoroughly discredited Atlantic report. We'll continue to see these canned scandals as the election comes nearer. How else can you explain Woodward holding on to Trump's interview until now?

People critical of Trump's handling of the Covid crisis are strangely silent about the mismanagement perpetrated by democrat governors and mayors. Wonder why? It's just another example of the dem's election strategy. Point to anything and everything and blame it on Trump. Reach a level of near-hysteria (forests are burning, a hurricane came ashore, a derecho struck, the sky is falling) on a daily basis in an effort to scare people into voting for a man who is far, far past his prime, and that's assuming he ever had one.

As to Tom's earlier post, it is clear that the NYT, the Post, the AP, and the DB were all collaborating with Trump in that massive lie about the non-lethal nature of CV-19. Well, you can't make this stuff up. Life is indeed stranger than fiction.

We have another issue pending, tomder. Should I bring it up, or will you?

Your move, tomder.

Have pity on the blind.

What Athos wants from me is a thesis on why I think the Dems are socialists ;a self evident proposition . I have time to do at best summaries with links . To do the specifics requested would require more of my time than I choose to do at this time .. Maybe on a snowy winter weekend I can get into that type of detail . Suffice it to say that Quid has adopted almost in entirety the Bolshevik Bernie and AllOutCrazy agenda . When he gets called out on it ,like fracking in PA. ,he backs down and denies he ever suggested it should be banned .

To do the specifics requested would require more of my time than I choose to do at this time

Ah, why am I not surprised? I was hoping for more, but I understand how generalities and sweeping condemnations are all you guys have. Getting into specifics would sink your whole agenda, wouldn't it? If you ever come up with anything, let me know.

as to the issue of specifics ;I explain my positions and provide sourcing as good as anyone on this site .

as to the issue of specifics ;I explain my positions and provide sourcing as good as anyone on this site .

I agree with you, tom. It's true your positions are usually well-sourced and thorough as to details. I don't always agree with them but I respect the effort you put into them.

But not this time - an exception. You've even noted that a long snowy winter would be needed to provide the specifics and the detail I requested for you to support your position on "socialism". To my way of thinking, it should be an easy proposition (assuming you have something) so I'm at a loss to understand why you can't (or won't) do it. Or why a long snowy winter weekend would be required.

But you've made your choice. Let me know if you change your mind.

Just more nonsense.

Let's first define socialism. What is it?

Again???

Again???
No one has yet.

socialism: a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

More succinctly, it is an economic system whereby the means of production is owned by the government.


AllOutCrazyNow that's funny!

I don't think the dems are shooting for socialism as much as they are going for something resembling fascism. Their suggestion, for instance, that the suburbs be forcibly integrated by government dictate is a despicable extension of power. Same is true of basically nationalizing health care.

socialism: a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole.

More succinctly, it is an economic system whereby the means of production is owned by the government.
"The community as a whole" or "the government"? They're one and the same?


Their suggestion, for instance, that the suburbs be forcibly integrated by federal dictate is a despicable extension of federal power.
Who "suggested" that?

https://dailycaller.com/2019/12/23/virginia-house-zoning-environment/

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/biden-and-dems-are-set-to-abolish-the-suburbs/

https://dailycaller.com/2019/12/23/virginia-house-zoning-environment/

https://www.nationalreview.com/corner/biden-and-dems-are-set-to-abolish-the-suburbs/
You know that's a crock.

Um, "Founded in 2010, the Daily Caller is an American news and opinion website based in Washington, D.C. It was founded by Tucker Carlson, a paleoconservative political pundit, and Neil Patel, a former adviser to former Vice President Cheney." Nat'l Review is a "leading conservitive magazine and website...."

National Review is a widely respected magazine. Strange how you are so unwilling to accept well sourced stories from the NR, and yet were so eager to jump on the rumor-mill story in the Atlantic which had NO named sources at all. A little bias showing through?

A few more links. I figure the last one will particularly interest you since MotherJones is a pretty left wing outfit.

https://thefederalist.com/2020/08/13/how-bidens-housing-plans-would-destroy-americas-suburbs/

https://www.lawenforcementtoday.com/bidens-2020-party-platform-seeks-to-abolish-americas-suburbs-as-cities-implode/#:~:text=Biden%20in%20fact%20would%20expand%20on%2 0Obama%E2%80%99s%20AFFH,for%20individual%20towns%2 0and%20cities%20to%20govern%20themselves.

https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2020/07/biden-wants-to-desegregate-the-suburbs-naturally-trump-is-furious/

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Today, 07:44 PM





Let's first define socialism. What is it?



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Today, 07:49 PM





Again???



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https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/custom/vgo/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by jlisenbe https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/custom/vgo/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?p=3857619#post3857619)
Again???



No one has yet.













I answered that question here


so I assume you are going to now ask me what I think socialism is . Ok
Socialism is an anti-capitalist movement that developed in the 19 century .It demands economic equality guaranteed and enforced by the state . It envisions a society where the means of production ,distribution and labor are owned and/or highly regulated by the state .

From that premise 2 thoughts emerged . 1. Democratic Socialism . It is a gradual Fabian like movement to gradually transform society to their goals . 2. A more radical revolutionary means to abolish existing institutions to hasten the move to a full socialist state . Marxism takes it a step further and abolishes the state . Fascism puts the illusion of capitalism into a state control of the economy . Fascism and Marxism are socialism by definition .
Socialism has been a failure .So it's proponents white washed it and relabeled it 'progressivism' . I would like to thank your bible 'The Atlantic' for in many words ,pointing out that socialism and progressivism is a distinction without a difference .

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics...essive/593095/ (https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2019/07/a-linguists-case-for-progressive/593095/)
https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=847643&page=4&p=3857378#post3857378 (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?t=847643&page=4&p=3857378#post3857378)

But that wasn't good enough Athos is attempting to keep questioning until he can find a hole in my answers .



Would you describe specifically why you consider the Democratic Party "socialistic"? I don't want to put words in your mouth, so if I haven't characterized your opinion correctly re the Party, please change it.

In any case, please be as specific and detailed as possible.






I'm done with that .

jlisenbe (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/member.php?u=26841) As I mentioned in my answer ,fascism is a form of socialism .

Thank you for going to the trouble to show how silly these conversations can become. In months past the whole, "What is socialism?" line of questioning has been pursued before. In ten seconds a person can search for a definition of the term which is, it so happens, exactly what I did.

Your discussion of socialism was interesting.

Unfortunately the definitions of words and people is often used as weapons to beat people and ideas over the head. It's like loony right wingers calling loony left wingers crazy. If that's not crazy I don't know what is. The dufus has been running for his second term the minute he won the first, extending silly season far beyond what we have ever seen, with no break in between, causing everybody to lose their friggin' minds.

I answered that question here



But that wasn't good enough Athos is attempting to keep questioning until he can find a hole in my answers

No, Tomder, I'm asking to understand how you critique programs/platforms/ideas as "socialism". When you defined it broadly, I asked you to put it into a real-life situation that you oppose. At first, you said you couldn't do it so quickly - you needed time to think about it. Ok I said.

Then, when I reminded you, you said you still didn't have time and that it needed a "long snowy winter weekend to have the time" - those are your words. Again, I said to let me know when you were ready.

Now, your position is "I'm done with that". What changed? You also said that Athos (me) is only trying to "find a hole in my answers". Also, not true. If you had described something I agreed with, I would have said so. Anyway, what if your comment re my reason was true (which it isn't), what are you afraid of? Can't you discuss your own belief with conviction?

It is VERY CLEAR you are avoiding the question and are now unable/refusing to answer it after you said you would.

It convinces me you don't really know what you are talking about when referring to "socialism". In any case, what could have been a productive exchange has now been discarded by you. You lost your chance to promote one of your favorite memes.

Readers here can now decide whether to believe you when you condemn "socialism" without any explanation of your condemnation.