https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-02/donald-trump-says-he-hopes-coronavirus-will-disappear/12414514

extreme wishful thinking, Trump hopes CV19 will disappear. He knows that unless it does his chances of reelection are very dim but then he is very dim too, so what ever!

That's what you get when you buy snake oil from a grifter, when the loonies take over the asylum.

when the loonies take over the asylum.

now haven't I been saying that, Common sense has gone out the window because the $$$ rules. I am reminded that the Spanish Flu killed 45 Million, so Kung Flu is on track and Donald cannot stop it, even if he buys up all the flu remedies in the world

Money is a great ruler of man, and the dufus is no different, and ignoring the virus is not a strategy for making money.

What is so hard to understand? All viruses run their coarse and disappear

Name one. How long will this one rage, and what do we do with those sick people and the ones dying while we wait for it to disappear?

If the feds can prop up Wall Street, why can't the congress prop everybody else up until the virus disappears?

What is so hard to understand? All viruses run their coarse and disappear
Nope, too often they not only stick around but will mutate. That's why the flu vaccine is always so iffy -- "what mutation are we dealing with this year???"

All viruses run their coarse and disappear

The influenza virus has been around for more than a century, killing thousands every year.

Trump is not a good source for your comment. The man's an idiot.

that's easy . Where is the Spanish Flu these days ? the annual cold (yes that is a virus too . You never get the same one twice . ) the annual flu (as with the cold ,each year is a different mutation but never the same one ) . A virus will run through the population until it can't find any more suitable hosts . That is achieved either through herd immunity or a vaccine that introduces anti-bodies into the human . Not all of them as as infectious . HIV is a virus but it only gets passed on under very limited conditions . C-19 is highly contagious . I think it may beat our efforts to discover a vaccine . Neither you or I know how much of the population has been infected already since many people are asymptomatic or have very mild reactions . A person I know tested positive for the antibodies and all he had was mild symptoms in early January ,long before anyone even thought it was here . Last year in the autumn there were reports of a virulent flu that was resisting traditional treatments . I'm pretty sure that was c-19 too.

that's easy . Where is the Spanish Flu these days


That's easy. To repeat, it's everywhere, killing thousands every year. When Trump says Covid will just "disappear", don't believe him. He's a certified moron.

https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/custom/vgo/images/misc/quote_icon.png Originally Posted by tomder55 https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/custom/vgo/images/buttons/viewpost-right.png (https://www.askmehelpdesk.com/showthread.php?p=3855599#post3855599)
that's easy . Where is the Spanish Flu these days




That's easy. To repeat, it's everywhere, killing thousands every year. When Trump says Covid will just "disappear", don't believe him. He's a certified moron.









Nope . The strain of H1N1 that caused the Spanish flu was unique from any other strain of H1N1 . There is a new one developing in China now . It is not the same as the Spanish Flu.

Nope . The strain of H1N1 that caused the Spanish flu was unique from any other strain of H1N1 . There is a new one developing in China now . It is not the same as the Spanish Flu.

I think we're arguing semantics. The flu is the flu - caused by a virus that has mutated over the years but never disappeared. Trump is still a bozo.

I'll go with the dufus being a certified moron, bragging about 3 week old data collected before the present surge.

this is what hope does, leads you to move too soon

not to quibble . But H1N1 was swine flu and doesn't always become a human to human event . When it becomes transmissible it causes a much more severe human illness than the common flu that humans typically contract .

not to quibble . .

ah Tom let's have another round of quibble, otherwise jl will have nothing to do

ah Tom let's have another round of quibble, otherwise jl will have nothing to do

lololol.......

One thing for sure we have learned at least here in the US is this virus doesn't give a crap about what you think is normal, as we cracked 53,000 cases yesterday, forcing governors to totally rethink their reopening strategy even as the dufus announces they have it under control. Can you hear the virus laughing it's arse off?

For sure covid19 cannot be compared to previous viruses, nor be treated like any past virus. Keep listening to the dufus, but wear your mask to the bars. Oh wait the bars are closed again, and masks are mandatory at least in Texas...in most counties, and will be enforced. That's no guarantee you won't get sick mind you, but we really got nothing better. The only good news is the death rate is less than it was, little consolation to the families that have lost loved ones.

Get this dufus out of here and quick before he kills us all...and takes his sycophants with him!

One thing for sure we have learned at least here in the US is this virus doesn't give a crap about what you think is normal, as we cracked 53,000 cases yesterday, forcing governors to totally rethink their reopening strategy even as the dufus announces they have it under control. Can you hear the virus laughing it's arse off?

For sure covid19 cannot be compared to previous viruses, nor be treated like any past virus. Keep listening to the dufus, but wear your mask to the bars. Oh wait the bars are closed again, and masks are mandatory at least in Texas...in most counties, and will be enforced. That's no guarantee you won't get sick mind you, but we really got nothing better. The only good news is the death rate is less than it was, little consolation to the families that have lost loved ones.

Get this dufus out of here and quick before he kills us all...and takes his sycophants with him!

from my observation, every now and then a disease comes along that takes some of us out, it is the way the planet deals with population control. This is a wake up call, there are too many of us and we don't respect the planet. Trump is just a symptom of the disease

I would love to treat the dufus as a symptom, and have him removed, so we can all move forward in a good orderly direction.

Clete is that evolution adaption through survival of the fittest ,or God's plan for us ? or maybe Mamma Gaia has a different plan ? When there was almost no human population there were plagues that took out larger percentages of the human population .It had nothing to do with the growth of human population and it has nothing to do with it now .

Such events still must be dealt with though no matter the causes or where it came from. Some of our leaders have failed us miserably. I ain't naming names but Cuomo looks like the smartest cookie in the jar compared to most of his counterparts so far.

Compare the dufus to oh let's see...Merkel, Trudeau, or anybody else for that matter. He flunks!

Cuomo looks like the smartest cookie in the jar except for that nursing home thingy? Don't let his talk fool you . He panicked initially asking the Federal Government for much more PPE .hospital beds etc ,than NY needed by a large factor . Now he is full of himself because the wave that is moving across the country began in the NY area .

WOW, blame Cuomo for the stupidity of the rest of the country? I don't know Tom, they had plenty of time to see this coming. The west coast is what shocks me more.

Was the leaders on the west coast stupid too ? No In that case it was people acting in violation of leaders dictates . I don't blame them either . We have been fed a steaming pile of manure from the get go with ridiculous projections that became the basis of public policy . When all is said and done and real data emerges we will find this virus was highly contagious and mortally dangerous to a select vulnerable population . Other than that the mortality rate more or less mirrors the flu .

What we haven't determined yet is the REAL cost to our country for this . We don't know how many other deaths and serious conditions were caused by our myopic focus . We have completely disrupted our economy and clearly our culture . I kinda doubt we will be alive to realize the full effect .

There are those who argue that the virus was the big test about how willing the US is to take the next step to a socialist system .From my perspective we have failed that test miserably and yes in that case I think the President failed too.

.That includes big government intervention that he readily promoted and took credit for . Would you say that the $2,2 trillion bailout package is a conservative initiative ? On top of that the Cares Act creates a cooperative between Treasury and the Fed to decide which American companies and industries are worthy of government bail out .The government deciding winners and losers in the economy is not conservative . It is more like central planning if you ask me . That was not only a Democrat initiative . It was a bipartisan as a bill can get . Trump has followed that up with proposals for other big government initiatives . He uses the guise of infrastructure as a pretext . Talks are already underway for another relief package in the hundreds of billions of dollars. Trump's signature will be on that one too,

I guess to be fair, behavior has as much to do with success and failure as policy does, which is why California surprised me and Texas doesn't. So the people share the blame for stupidity except where the state leadership showed utter stupidity. The countries that shut down and hunkered down brought the curve to zero and we did none of that. Our dufus leader was more concerned with opening up than dealing with the virus, so I guess I go with screw the economy while this virus is raging out of control crowd. I mean how do you have a healthy economy with a country full of sick people? 50,000 new cases A DAY? Come on man! You can be well going to work, and sick that night!

And who bears the brunt of the reopening and the getting sick? Blue collar lower wage workers. I can see where the attitude is make them lazy poor people work during the pandemic and replace 'em if they get sick. They're just throwaway workers any way, not like the important white collar crowd who can work from home and get paid, with a big old room for every occupant.

I gotcha Tom, it's all a big HOAX to make the dufus look bad.

!


I gotcha Tom, it's all a big HOAX to make the dufus look bad.

well of course it is he needs all the help he can get, he wasn't looking bad enough on his own

. The countries that shut down and hunkered down brought the curve to zero and we did none of that. It is very clear that was and still is needed is regional responses .States like South Dakota never issued restrictions or had few restrictions that have been lifted . They are doing fine . They did not need the same response that high density states like NY had . Even here in NY different regions required different responses . And why would California surprise you ? There are still many freedom loving people living there . Too bad they have been duped into believing the progressive cr@p sandwich that they are fed there . There is logic in closing indoor bars where distancing is almost impossible. Closing the beaches this weekend is just cruel abuse of power. Here is a good prudent national response at this time . End that silly $600 incentive not to work . Time for America to start working again.

and since I added Trump to people I called out then the obvious conclusion is no I don't think it was a hoax. What Trump needs to do more than anything else is the squeeze the Chi-coms into letting independent investigators into the country to determine the real source of the virus . This covid strain is unnatural . And the modelling was completely off . It should be a lesson to you 'trust and believe the scientist 'types . You have seen enough proof of things they have gotten wrong with their virus modelling and recommendations to never again make the assumptions that they are a all that . Keep that in mind the next time climate is brought up .

I won't get into crap sandwiches right or left, but there is merit to the idea of regional responses, as the spread is often locally driven. The lesson of NY in my view was that as infections and hospitalization increased the human activity was decreased, and that seems to be as effective a strategy looking back as I've seen. With the south and west spreads, that's not what they are doing at all so find themselves having to scale back there human activity. California, hit hard seemed to be following that same NY model, but got off that track for whatever reason. I don't know what freedom loving people have to do with it, other than a propaganda value changing the narrative from health to economic, which seems to justify that tired old meme that any extra dollar a poor low wage worker gets makes him lazy, when in reality it helps through a catastrophic virus epidemic. Temporary assistance, much like the rich guy tax breaks during good economic times, is essential for us blue collar types or he go hungry or hopeless. Talk about a right wing crap sandwiches!

What we fail to factor in is that lag time for human activity which runs from 7 days to 21 days, and waiting for the cause and effect to be felt, only gives us a rear view of what really works and what doesn't. By that time the damage has been done and the scramble begins. I think Tom, you have always been in the conservative capitalists crowd of profits before people so you bias against those "essential", but low wage workers makes them just expendable economic cannon fodder to get another dollar out of. I can see why you and the dufus would break with the discipline of science to deal with any economic challenge to that profit model.

Clearly we see, not just during this pandemic, but in other human activity as well, we can live with whatever adverse effects to humans that activity brings as long as the profit targets are reached. In this Tom over the years you have been consistent.

show me where being able bodied and out of work benefitted anyone . I came from the ranks of the 'low wage workers '.I know I still would be if it was my attitude that I'd rather take $600 "free" money than working when work was available . Even when unemployment was available to me I did not pursue it . I went out and found a job. I knew it was not going to be my final job. So your premise about me is wrong . This I know and it fits every single economic model . No one is hiring to provide charity . The work you produce has to bring more profit in than your cost to the company . So yeah , I tend to agree with the job creators positions more than those that think the job creator is an evil .

And you also know that I have a low opinion of corporate rent seekers even as I mostly disagree with the general idea of taxing corporate income . As you saw in my comments already i opposed most of the bailout package .... and most of it was to the benefit of corporations . So you have another wrong premise about me . Socialism is socialism and that manifest itself by government control of the means of production and the economy . And government playing favorites with one company or business or industry over another is as socialist as it gets .

It's a pandemic going around and it affects ones ability to work, and even find work. You cannot ignore that condition, and the effects it has on workers or the uncertainty it causes us all. For to long we have ignored that fact of the business cycle going up and down on those that cannot prepare, or have no buffer to ride those cycles out. Natural disaster come and go quickly, but that's not what we have now, and the capitalist system is as helpless as any of us in dealing with it. No you just cannot ignore these current conditions and fall back on the normal ideologies and marketing ploys that have worked for some for so long.

My friend, in keeping with my liberal bonafides (As you keep your conservative bonafides LOL!), I must remind you no economy will work with sick workers and we must push for solutions that protect those workers who through no fault of their own are facing this virus challenge with no tools at all. 600 bucks a week extra for a few months when they cannot work seems rather paltry when there are no other choices for those able bodied who want to work. They didn't just go home and start begging for free stuff. They were told to go home, because of a HEALTH crisis, and it's getting WORSE not better.

You cannot ignore that no matter what your politics or religion is can you?

600 bucks a week extra for a few months when they cannot work seems rather paltry when there are no other choices for those able bodied who want to work that is true and since they were not working because of government mandate then there is logic in it . But now the work is available and the unemployment check is a disincentive to rejoin the labor force. As a worker it makes sense to me . If the government is going to cut me a check to take a summer break who am I to say no ? I'd much rather hang at the beach or 'peacefully protest 'in the streets tearing down statues than wake up to an alarm clock and have to punch in . But now most places of business are up and running . Time to get back to work

That totally ignores the facts on the ground as sickness and death is running rampant in large parts of the country. You weathered your NY storm and maybe it is time for NY to get back to work, but that ain't happening everywhere. You can't ignore that.

We sure can't in Texas, or a bunch of other places in the country either.

can't avoid it . I have said all along the virus is going to run it's course . The delay is hoping to wait it out until a vaccine is proven effective . How long you willing to wait ? I know people who can't even get court dates because of the shutdowns . This is part of the reason for the crime spike throughout the country . Sandinista Bill released all these criminals from Ryker's Island to roam and marauder in the streets . Then on top of that he is attempting to neuter the police force . It stuns me that they have the resources to address a gym owner who wants to open up for business but play catch and release with hardened criminals .
https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/s960x960/106982435_10224403851870400_5480122825758809171_o. jpg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_oc=AQkhoiBFj_5bn56-q0guWvlijPfgHOS6PN7ASJKCuXAD8tNc5ZbfYOnUf1XmoSze5N Y&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&_nc_tp=7&oh=98fb05d67d35c0541d042a60ebd2b7e2&oe=5F24813E

Oh come on Tom, we can go back and forth about politics and governing and have for a long time, but this is about the virus, and dealing with it. You have to admit it's caught us flatfooted and exposed all our weaknesses and flaws that all the patriotic partisan bluster can't gloss over. Yeah, maybe us liberals will bankrupt us, and conservatives will keep us sick and make us sicker. You want us to just ignore the sickness, and get paid, and I want us to ignore the money and help us get through the sickness.

Maybe we're both wrong, or maybe we're both right, as obviously we have to figure out what the right balance is to do both, fight the virus, and not bankrupt the country, so the economy can't recover...eventually. For sure we aren't even close now. I think you hit it right when you said the virus will run it's course no matter what we do. LOL, that means a lot of sick people sitting home recovering and can't pay the bills. We're talking hundreds of millions. Too bad for them huh, and the companies they work for who may never reopen again.

That's not business as usual is it?

the curve you need to flatten is the upward curve in infections, all the rest will be as nothing unless you achieve that. Yes, people are suffering, people who have not suffered pandemic and depression before, and fear rules the land. No amount of rhetoric will have any effect, no amount of wishfull thinking will have any effect, and B/S political rallies will have the opposite effect. This is a time for leadership not B/S

Well that leaves the US out because we have no leadership, just 50 yahoos, trying stuff.

Good luck trying to get rid of the Federal system and good luck living with the dictates of bureaucrats 1,300 miles away from where you live .Most of whom have never seen your part of the country nor care to do so.
"a single courageous State may, if its citizens choose, serve as a laboratory; and try novel social and economic experiments without risk to the rest of the country." (NY Ice Company v Lieberman )
You guys have no problem with Federalism when it comes to challenging immigration law or national marijuana laws . Not having standardization is a good thing .

I guess walls, fences, and checkpoints, are in order between the states during a pandemic. Sort of takes UNITED out of United States huh.

I guess walls, fences, and checkpoints, are in order between the states during a pandemic. Sort of takes UNITED out of United States huh.

Bite the bullet, shut the borders

I guess walls, fences, and checkpoints, are in order between the states during a pandemic. If I travel to visit my family in Texas ,Fla S Carolina and return to NY it is the liberal governor who begged the President for a lifetime supply of PPE and a bailout from Congress who would prevent me from going about my business freely in the state I live . You know ;the one who hates Federalism except when he doesn't . The one who made the worse mistakes during the virus crises and now points the finger accused at all the other governors . Y'all better hope he never becomes President because his is a record of failure that dates back to his time at HUD when he set in motion the financial crisis of 2008 .

If I travel to visit my family in Texas ,Fla S Carolina and return to NY it is the liberal governor who begged the President for a lifetime supply of PPE and a bailout from Congress who would prevent me from going about my business freely in the state I live . You know ;the one who hates Federalism except when he doesn't . The one who made the worse mistakes during the virus crises and now points the finger accused at all the other governors . Y'all better hope he never becomes President because his is a record of failure that dates back to his time at HUD when he set in motion the financial crisis of 2008 .

Different crisis Tom different responses needed and just maybe people learn

same testa di merda

same testa di merda

Trump, yes, I agree

Y'all better hope he never becomes President because his is a record of failure that dates back to his time at HUD when he set in motion the financial crisis of 2008 .

I was hoping bizarre statements were a thing of the past on this site. Apparently not. Didn't Cuomo also set in motion the Great Depression?

I was hoping bizarre statements were a thing of the past on this site. Apparently not. Didn't Cuomo also set in motion the Great Depression?

Which great depression are you speaking of; 80 years ago or the one to come due to Kung Flu set in motion by China

I was hoping bizarre statements were a thing of the past on this site. Apparently not. Didn't Cuomo also set in motion the Great Depression?

Leave it to conservatives to blame liberals for rich guys greed. They have been trying to shift the blame for the housing market collapse since it started. The flaw in the plan has always been in the banks policy of over pricing and over charging and trying to falsify the paperwork, and other deceptive and exploitive practices. Hud never made those terms mandatory, but banks sure did when they were selling them to other parties, mostly other banks foreign and domestic.

What did the conservatives and banks care about affordable housing, or people sinking all their money into home ownership? NOTHING as long as they got paid, and they certainly did. What do you think happened to all those people caught up in the scandal?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subprime_mortgage_crisis

As with most of my links it's important to also review the articles EMBEDDED links for clarity and understanding.

Didn't Cuomo also set in motion the Great Depression?




NO it was the Great Recession and even ultra -lib Village Voice knows it was his fault .


Andrew Cuomo, the youngest Housing and Urban Development secretary in history, made a series of decisions between 1997 and 2001 that gave birth to the country’s current crisis. He took actions that—in combination with many other factors—helped plunge Fannie and Freddie into the subprime markets without putting in place the means to monitor their increasingly risky investments. He turned the Federal Housing Administration mortgage program into a sweetheart lender with sky-high loan ceilings and no money down, and he legalized what a federal judge has branded “kickbacks” to brokers that have fueled the sale of overpriced and unsupportable loans. Three to four million families are now facing foreclosure, and Cuomo is one of the reasons why.




There is no denying that it was his and Bubba's policies that created the melt down .

https://www.villagevoice.com/2008/08/05/andrew-cuomo-and-fannie-and-freddie/

If you want someone to share then it was also the emperor as a community organizer who muscled banks into making bad loans .


Before the crisis, Obama pushed thousands of credit-poor blacks into homes they couldn't afford. As a civil-rights attorney, he sued banks to rubberstamp mortgages for urban residents.
(https://cei.org/blog/how-acorn-destroyed-housing-market)
https://cei.org/blog/how-acorn-destroyed-housing-market (https://cei.org/blog/how-acorn-destroyed-housing-market)

There is no denying that it was his and Bubba's policies that created the melt down

What a complete load of hogwash, including the two links.

There is one reason, and one reason only, that the crisis occurred. Pay attention.

The Wall Street investment banks packaged toxic loans as securities, paid the credit rating agencies BIG bucks to rate them Triple AAA, and then sold them worldwide as highest rated bonds. When the loans went into default (as the Street knew they would) and stopped paying off, they tainted the entire market, even good securities, and the crisis was on.

AG Eric Holder dropped the ball by fines that were a fraction of the profits earned by the banks. When the credit rating agencies said their ratings were an "opinion" and therefore came under the First Amendment as protected speech, Holder accepted this nonsense and bailed when he should have prosecuted the criminal banks and agencies to the fullest extent.

If you want names to blame, start with Alan Greenspan, a protege of the infamous Ayn Rand, and Lloyd Blankfein, the crooked CEO of Goldman Sachs at the time who gave a bizarre testimony before Congress justifying his firm's criminal actions.

Here's a tip: When you see the Community Reinvestment Act (CRA) noted as a contributor to the crisis, that tells you that the article lacks any credibility. The CRA had NOTHING to do with the crisis, but it became a scapegoat accused by the monied forces to move culpability away from Wall Street.

You are disputing the yeoman investigative research of the Village Voice ? wow . that is a lib bible . And who permitted the banks to package the loans they were compelled to extend ?

Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac—led the way by loosening their underwriting standards for mortgages purchased from private lenders. Regulators also began seriously using the CRA as leverage to spur mortgage lenders to lower their lending standards. Investors funneled trillions of dollars to Fannie and Freddie enabling trillions of dollars of credit to flow to those with lower credit scores, minimal income documentation, less stable employment scores, and scant down payments. Investors understood that the federal government would ultimately guarantee their investments Fannie and Freddie backed securities in the event borrowers failed to repay.

If it is any consolation to you ,the Bush Administration took the baton from Bubba and began bragging about increased homeownership by the poor ,and doubled down on the program .

And I'll extend the Fed their fair share of the blame . They purchased trillions of dollars of government debt along with mortgage backed securities (MBSs). This $$$ ended up deposited at banks. To prevent the banks from investing this new capital in securities or issuing new loans, the Fed instituted a new policy: interest payments on excess banking reserves were to be deposited with the Federal Reserve. This policy diverted capital from business expansion to the housing sector.

We still have this cancer in the system because the emperor and the Dems blame it on lack of regulation. That is why we have Dodd Frank( named after the 2 legislators who were also complicit in this tragedy ). Frank even admitted to Kudlow it was a mistake .


"I hope by next year we'll have abolished Fannie and Freddie ... it was a great mistake to push lower-income people into housing they couldn't afford and couldn't really handle once they had it."

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2010/08/21/barney_frank_comes_home_to_the_facts_106844.html

And we also still have these government housing policies, implemented by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac . Mortgage standards are still too lax and house prices have again inflated since 2012

Both entities should be disbanded . But if anything, Fannie and Freddie have only gotten bigger . They are the ultimate too big to fail entities that we are stuck with because politicians of both parties are afraid to let the market work .

AG Eric Holder dropped the ball by fines that were a fraction of the profits earned by the banks. When the credit rating agencies said their ratings were an "opinion" and therefore came under the First Amendment as protected speech, Holder accepted this nonsense and bailed when he should have prosecuted the criminal banks and agencies to the fullest extent.


NY AG il duce tried his hardest to nail the investment banks ...but not really . He was after the money . He hired Howard Glaser ,who was his right hand man at HUD and then assisted il Duce in the investigation while he was at the same time a lobbyist and consultant for the banking industry . At least two of the investigations involved firms that Glaser acknowledge were his clients .Il duce gave immunity to some pretty big players ....no doubt in exchange for contributions to his campaign for Governor war chest . One of them ,Clayton Holdings clients included JP Morgan and Merrill Lynch . They also were a client of Glaser .

https://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/27/business/27subprime.html?pagewanted=all

How convenient ! The people most responsible for the mess became the investigators of the mess. il duce won his bid for the governor's office partly by claiming a tough record of going after Wall Street and corporate greed ;and Glazer worked on his staff during the campaign. Then he went on the hold the powerful state position of Director of state operations.
Il duce takes care of his gumbas .

Did you ever hear of the Moreland Commission ? It was the committee that was formed after il duce ran on an anti-corruption campaign. The commission started to get too close to the truth about il duce and his gumbas . So the commission was disbanded by il duce the cabeza de pinga.

https://time.com/2969865/citigroup-mortgage-crisis-settlement/

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2019-07-19/california-331-million-mortgage-settlement-state-budget-lawsuit

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/27/business/credit-suisse-mortgage.html

And just to clarify,

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Federal_takeover_of_Fannie_Mae_and_Freddie_Mac

We're ready for Cuomo in Texas when you are Tom.

you give me links to settlements Athos already referred to

None of them came from il Duce's investigative efforts .

And so what if Fanny and Freddie were taken over by the government . The mistakes made in the 2000,s are being made today . Except now the government profits . They still back the vast majority of new home loans. Investors continued to buy the mortgage backed securities from Fannie and Freddie, because they are backed by the government.They are still too big to fail .
So when the housing bubble bursts again ,it will be up to the taxpayer to foot the bill......again. The CBO says that eliminating Fanny and Freddie would save money because it would rid the government of its risk.

The fact that they have slipped back to the same bad policies that they had before the crash should concern everyone ,

https://www.wsj.com/articles/fannie-and-freddie-back-more-mortgages-of-those-deeply-in-debt-11557739801

comments cancelled duplicate

The fact that they have slipped back to the same bad policies that they had before the crash should concern everyone ,

That is the sorry truth. But not for the reasons you think. The person capable of effectively reeling in the investment banks is Elizabeth Warren. Too-big-to-fail is a destructive idea and I would think Repubs would be against that idea.

Secretary of the Treasury Warren would clean up the bad actors in Wall Street by bringing back Glass-Steagal (as originally framed) and rewriting Dodd-Frank.

Too-big-to-fail is a destructive idea and I would think Repubs would be against that idea. I don't know about Repubs . Conservative capitalists sure hate the idea.


Glass-Steagal

absolutely reinstate it . The idea of bank profits private but losses socialized is grotesque. Investment banking should be decoupled from savings and loans. Why should investment banks get FDIC protection ? Bottom line I oppose government subsidies and especially in the banking industry . It is not the government responsibility or business deciding which banks live or die. The combining of investment and S&L made banks too big and unfairly stifled competition as the industry consolidated .


Secretary of the Treasury Warren

....would continue the trend of nationalizing banks . In fact she proposed to nationalize EVERY major business in the United States. aka her “Accountable Capitalism Act.” No business with more than $1 billion in revenue would be permitted to legally operate without permission from the federal government. They would have to sign a federal charter of 'corporate citizenship' .A corporation being chartered isn't new . States have the power now ,not the Feds . This would be just one more nail in our federalism (yeah i get it the Dems hate federalism until it suits their purpose .)
The federal government would decide the composition of their boards, the details of internal corporate governance, compensation practices, personnel policies. Corporations would be required to allow their workers to elect 40 percent of the membership of their board of directors.

In short , ACA is based on the Marxist idea of placing the control of all business and industry in the hands of the state. It of course is completely antithetical to what I argued against when I agreed that Glass -Steagal should be reinstated . I DON'T want the government deciding winners and losers in the economy . Warren's ACA would do just that .

In short , ACA is based on the Marxist idea of placing the control of all business and industry in the hands of the state. It of course is completely antithetical to what I argued against when I agreed that Glass -Steagal should be reinstated . I DON'T want the government deciding winners and losers in the economy . Warren's ACA would do just that .

You just can't keep a good communist down, not even in the USA

Takes a real capitalist/conservative to spin regulations on capitalism and think its communism, or socialism. The whole notion of capitalism is to big too big to fail.

Takes a real capitalist/conservative to spin regulations on capitalism and think its communism, or socialism. The whole notion of capitalism is to big too big to fail.

You do remember the GFC how many of those do you have in you right now?

We've done it many times, before so why would you doubt we won't do it again? And AGAIN? OR AGAIN?

yes forever failing upwards

It gets more complicated when you triple your population in a century, more so when you add many different cultures and societies into that mix. You'll see.

ACA (Warren's economic plan) is based on the Marxist idea of placing the control of all business and industry in the hands of the state.

Warren does NOT place all business in the hands of the state.

Here are some of her points:

1. Corporations should have more than just profits driving them. Corporate boards should be made up of 40% worker participation. Goals should include profits, AND other worthy goals to further the public interest, NOT just the shareholders and top executives.

2. Repeal Citizens United - Corporations are NOT persons!

3. Tax the ultra-rich an added 2% recognizing their wealth depends on the wider society. This would raise an additional $2.75 TRILLION over 10 years for supporting existing programs and creating new ones on a bipartisan basis.

4. Break up big-tech monopolistic companies - Amazon, Google, Facebook , etc.

5. Consolidate existing business-oriented federal agencies into a single Department of Economic Opportunity to ensure jobs and training for federal employees and for non-federal workers to compete in the global marketplace.

6. Medicare for all.

7. Closely regulate the financial industry to avoid the crisis of 2007-8. REGULATE, NOT OWN!


These are some of her proposals, not all of them. It's hardly "Marxism".

The US economic system is presently Capitalism modified by Socialism. The two work well together with Capitalism dominating and neither one eliminating the other.

Warren's ideas are excellent food for thought.

The Green New Deal is another program worthy of discussion - for a later day.

Warren does NOT place all business in the hands of the state. yeah just those billion dollar businesses .Quite a big camel nose in the tent . How long before every American business is compelled to follow suit ?

Corporations should have more than just profits driving them. Corporate boards should be made up of 40% worker participation. Goals should include profits, AND other worthy goals
to further the public interest, NOT just the shareholders and top executives.
Big difference between SHOULD and MUST . The later is a dictate .


. Repeal Citizens United - Corporations are NOT persons! WE will always disagree on this point . People have the right of association and to collectively petition Congress on their own behalf . Corporations are a group of people acting collectively with the goal of making money . They still have that right to petition Congress for their mutual benefit . I'll say it again . You want to start restricting corporations from making contributions in return for favors ?Start with the public service unions



Tax the ultra-rich an added 2% recognizing their wealth depends on the wider society. This would raise an additional $2.75 TRILLION over 10 years for supporting existing programs and creating new ones on a bipartisan basis.
we will never agree on this either . A fair tax is one where everyone is taxed at the same rate . By definition the rich would pay more .


Break up big-tech monopolistic companies - Amazon, Google, Facebook , etc. on that I agree with her . But all that is needed is enforcement of existing law. Trust me I have no love lost for those rent seeking pirates . There is nothing free enterprise on how they became behemoths .


Consolidate existing business-oriented federal agencies into a single Department of Economic Opportunity to ensure jobs and training for federal employees and for non-federal workers to compete in the global marketplace. No problem with that either . There should be more consolidating and eliminating of federal bureaucracies . The problem is that Warren would grow them into super agencies instead of efficiently eliminating duplication .


6. Medicare for all. barf alert . Medicare is almost insolvent now . Workers pay into it their whole working lives to become eligible . But she would turn it into a cradle to death welfare system where people are eligible without putting a dime into it . At least call it accurately . What she really wants is national Medicaid .


Closely regulate the financial industry to avoid the crisis of 2007-8. REGULATE, NOT OWN! Dictating how a board is composed of is ownership . Dictating that a certain business model ;the "benefit corporation" model, which prizes a set of values above just profits, must be a corporate business model is government ownership by other means .

yeah just those billion dollar businesses .Quite a big camel nose in the tent . How long before every American business is compelled to follow suit ?

You're putting words in Warren's plan that she never proposed. She does not say billion dollar businesses are to be owned by the state. Even less, "every" American business.


I'll say it again . You want to start restricting corporations from making contributions in return for favors ?Start with the public service unions

Excellent idea! I agree. Better each start at the same time. Just to be fair.


A fair tax is one where everyone is taxed at the same rate.

You mean a "Flat" tax. Nothing could be less fair than your idea of a "fair" tax. Changing the name doesn't change the unfairness. For the billionaire to pay the same rate as the $25,000 worker is absurd! The super rich would make huge fortunes if the so-called "flat tax" were law. Forbes stood to gain hundreds of millions if his "Flat" tax were enacted. It was a joke. Let's let this bad idea die a permanent death.


By definition the rich would pay more .

Now, Tom, are you being sneaky here? Of course the rich would pay more - MORE THAN EVERYBODY ELSE AT THE SAME RATE! But you seem to be implying the rich would pay more than they do NOW! Not in a million years.


Medicare is almost insolvent now . Workers pay into it their whole working lives to become eligible . But she would turn it into a cradle to death welfare system where people are eligible without putting a dime into it . At least call it accurately

Ok, how about National Health Care.


Dictating how a board is composed of is ownership

Corporations are required to have Boards now. Nobody calls it ownership.


Dictating that a certain business model ;the "benefit corporation" model, which prizes a set of values above just profits, must be a corporate business model is government ownership by other means .

Not above profits, but equal, or even a little below, if that makes you happy. The "Benefit" corporation, if that means benefiting the wider society, is a good name. Again, a regulation is not the same as ownership.

See? We have some agreement.

https://www.nationalmemo.com/ppp-loan

But you seem to be implying the rich would pay more than they do NOW! Not in a million years. simplify the tax code it definitely would Yes I mean a flat tax with no account tricks called deductions and exemptions and credits.


Corporations are required to have Boards now. Nobody calls it ownership.

When you dictate who must be on the board then it is the equivalent of state ownership .That was the Mussolini model .....
Economic fascism is a variety of socialism . individual rights may be routinely suppressed in the name of “social justice,” “national greatness” or some other utopian ideal. Politicians know better than private citizens what should be done. “Government alone,” Mussolini insisted, “is in the right position to see things from the point of view of the general welfare.” The government’s responsibility is to determine how much money is invested, how and where it should be invested and how the results will be judged. In Italy after 1925, all this was done through government-controlled cartels, such as the National Fascist Confederation of Industry, the National Fascist Confederation of Agriculture, the National Fascist Confederation of Commerce and the National Fascist Confederation of Banking.



https://www.forbes.com/sites/jimpowell/2012/02/22/the-economic-leadership-secrets-of-benito-mussolini/#417fadff68e6

I might go along with a flat tax, if everybody made the same money, had the same value, and was as the founding documents said was as equal as the Creator made us, with equal protection under the law. Until we fulfil that responsibility, forget that flat tax nonsense! Geez Tom some rich guys already pay less than a poor man, who can pay nothing.

A flat tax is NOTHING but conservative capitalists propaganda. The joke is on anyone who believes it.

It gets more complicated when you triple your population in a century, more so when you add many different cultures and societies into that mix. You'll see.I think that has happened here with very few of those consequences you speak of but then we arnt obsessed with our rights but im sure large populations bring their own problems, but our history is very different, we didnt need a rebellion to be a free nation and we didnt need to tear the nation apart or conquer the first nations peoples, greed just wasnt factored into our thinking

So you say Clete, but let me know when you outnumber the roos.

So you say Clete, but let me know when you outnumber the roos.probably do already we have had the emu wars and won maybe we should have the roo war.

We will probably have a first nations war they breed like rabbits and dont surcome to mixomytosis