Once again the buffoon in the White House has threatened to destroy world peace. This time he has theatened to cut off all trade with China. it might have been a casual comment in an interview, a maybe, but the Chinese has responded with venom

https://www.news.com.au/finance/work/leaders/we-could-cut-off-the-whole-relationship-us-and-china-tensions-soar-after-trade-threat/news-story/4a05fbcd73478413ae1143695acbc320

Chinese response is if you do that, we will take Taiwan. I can't really see the connection but in the Chinese mind Taiwanese freedom is directly associated with trade with China. Trump bluffed China into trade concessions, is this latest attack more of the same?

Now Clete you know it's silly season and the dufus has to drum up his base with hate talk. The Chinese know that so they give it back just like they get it. He got no trade concessions from them so far, I mean none, so don't fall for the spin. He just wants to keep the farmers from rioting on the WH lawn, or worse dumping his a$$ for screwing up their money for nothing.

They are really sensitive about this pandemic though, and rightfully so.

Now Clete you know it's silly season and the dufus has to drum up his base with hate talk. The Chinese know that so they give it back just like they get it. He got no trade concessions from them so far, I mean none, so don't fall for the spin. He just wants to keep the farmers from rioting on the WH lawn, or worse dumping his a$$ for screwing up their money for nothing.

They are really sensitive about this pandemic though, and rightfully so.

Well you might think the Chinese engage in rhetoric, but the reality on this side of the world is different

When a saber is rattled, they rattle back, but make no mistake they are very capable of more, and will exploit any weakness that serves their interest, and press any advantage to gain leverage.

Probably freaks them out we didn't dump this fool when we had a chance, but no doubt hope the elections produce a better outcome. They play the long game Clete.

Ok what do you do with a country of 1.4 billion people that controls nuclear weapons and also controls a great deal of the world's commerce that deliberately withheld information about a virus that originated in their country that ended up infecting over 2 million people and counting ... and will kill over a half million people .. including 85,000 Americans and counting ... Ended travel from Wuhan in their country but allowed travel from Wuhan outside their country in what was an apparent and deliberate attempt to create a worldwide pandemic (even if there is a remote possibility that the virus did not originate in their wmd lab in Wuhan ) ?

You tell me what we are supposed to do with that ? The economic damage to the world has yet to be calculated ;but it measure with the 1930s global collapse . In NYC this attack was far worse than the 9-11 ;and you know how we responded to that . We are still fighting jihadistan .

Candidate Michael Bloomberg said the Chinese government was a consensual government and he was arranging financial liquidity to companies that we know are controlled by the central communist government in China . Bill Gates and the GREAT SCIENTIST Tony Fauci said they thought the Chinese response to C-9 was proper . Our government agencies NIH and CDC diverted funds to help set up the labs in Wuhan . It makes it hard to point an accusing finger when so many Americans are embedded in the Chinese web (and let's not bring up the apparent Democrat nominee and his family Chinese corruption) .

The American people know the truth . I would find it very hard to believe the American people are going to accept the Chinese sneak attack and go back to status quo ante .Common sense Americans knew before this that China was a foe and a threat . That is one of the reasons Trump was elected . We the people know that the Wuhan virology lab was the source of the virus . WE the people know the Chinese covered that up . WE the people know that the Chinese took a hit and decided to share the pain with the rest of the world . Our conduct is going to change regarding relations with China . I don't know that the swamp critters know that yet . But they will soon enough . WE the people know we are too dependent on the supply chain from China for critical and strategic goods . That is going to change .

The Chinese have been telling our allies that we are not dependable allies . Well just watch us . We have Taiwan's back . I once had my doubts ;but not anymore . And that goes for Japan and S Korea ;and the Philippines ;Vietnam ,India and yes ......even Australia .

While I can agree with much of what you say to a great extent, the dufus is not the guy to guide us through this relationship with China. In fact if he hasn't shown in the last 3 years to be the absolute wrong guy for this and any other foreign and domestic endeavor, then woe be to us. I mean doesn't say much that we elected a person of his background in the first place and we the people are to blame.

You don't hire a hammer to build a computer and that's exactly what we did in a great zeal to prove whatever. We the people screwed this up big time and will have to fix it big time. Like you said, the Chinese as an example have their ways and being dependent on them for anything is rather foolish given they have a stick as big as ours, but the world is to small to ignore them or anyone else for that matter, and a true leader deals with them where common interest lies and resolutely where it does not.

Can you blame other countries for scratching their heads and wondering WHAT THE FREAK?

umm it was the emperor's policies that had our allies in the region scratching their head . (well the Bushes and Clintoons were patsies also) The emperor "pivoted " to Asia and created another foreign policy fiasco for the US. In his time China strengthened their territorial claims in the South China Sea unchecked . In his efforts to improve relations with the Chinese he alienated our allies in the region . It was during the emperor's watch that the Chinese told our friends the US was no longer reliable allies and they should hitch onto the Chinese train before it is too late .

Wrap your head around the Chinese being formidable within there own part of the world (And well beyond) and we would be very foolish to directly militarily confront them. Look at a map, the South China Sea is in there backyard, not ours. We have hardware so do they.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLI8KE6Ctbw

The South China sea is not their lake . All the surrounding countries have territorial claims We do not make claims to the resources of the nations in the Gulf of Mexico. And we have never disputed the right of China and Russia to navigate those seas. Most of the commerce that travels by sea pass through territory China is making claim to . It is outrageous and intollerable and cannot stand .

The South China sea is not their lake . All the surrounding countries have territorial claims We do not make claims to the resources of the nations in the Gulf of Mexico. And we have never disputed the right of China and Russia to navigate those seas. Most of the commerce that travels by sea pass through territory China is making claim to . It is outrageous and intollerable and cannot stand .

Yeh and the Pacific is not your lake. You project power with aircraft carriers, the Chinese project power with something more permanent. They are going through their colonial period now, whereas much of the world is post colonial. No doubt the Chinese have declared the South China Sea as terra nullius and see it as their manifest destiny to exploit it. Has a familiar ring to it, doesn't it. You exploit the Caribean for resources, how is it different? Some better relations with your neighbours, perhaps

glad you admit that the premise of your post is an untruth . It is the Chinese that threaten world peace .

Yeah Clete we're peacekeepers. Defending the little dogs against the big bad wolf!

We have Taiwan's back.

We didn't under Nixon when it counted and he bailed on Taiwan.

Yeah Clete we're peacekeepers. Defending the little dogs against the big bad wolf!

you are just the alpha male in the pack over the mountain. you are peacekeepers, tell that to the people of iraq

Don't have to, they are a major trading partner in the ME.

Don't have to, they are a major trading partner in the ME.

Only because you coerced them into it and you have few friends there

They want capital and a good economy most of them, since they aren't threatened by ISIS as much though small factions remain. We have those here in America, they are loony right wingers and everybody has some version of these nutjobs.

We didn't under Nixon when it counted and he bailed on Taiwan. loll 47 years ago. And all Nixon did was open up China . Our policy regarding Taiwan has been strategically vague since the Communist takeover of China . But everyone knows the US will come to their defense . More likely they would give the ChiComs a nose bleed without our direct intervention .
.

loll 47 years ago. And all Nixon did was open up China . Our policy regarding Taiwan has been strategically vague since the Communist takeover of China

You couldn't be more wrong. For over 20 years the US defended Taiwan from Chinese aggression by the US Navy patrolling the Straits of Formosa and by stationing thousands of US troops on Taiwan. When Nixon carried out his rapproachement with the Chinese, the US bailed on its defensive agreement with Taiwan and soon removed all US military from the island.


But everyone knows the US will come to their defense.

I don't think "everyone knows that". With Trump at the helm, he's liable to send a love letter to the Chinese if they take over Taiwan.


More likely they (the US) would give the ChiComs a nose bleed without our direct intervention.

Spoken like a true cold warrior. Except for the sad fact of Trump in the WH could barely manage a war considering how badly he is managing a virus.

I think what we are seeing in this complicated world is the dufus feeding his base, at the sacrifice of doing his job in an effective manner. Not saying China is a victim of that at all, nor absolving them of anything, they have much to answer for, but obviously they have had enough of being a verbal whipping boy of a fools personal agenda, and must save face some kind of way. Bad enough the world blames them for the current crisis that disrupts us, maybe rightfully so, we don't know at this point, despite the emotional backlash of being helpless in it's wake, but listening to the drone of constant personal badmouthing has to be downright infuriating. Nobody but a sychophant cowers to those bully tactics so understandable China rattles it's saber at such saber rattling.

That the dufus exploits this emotion for personal gain though is pretty despicable, considering his own performance thus far.

Trump is not alone in appointing blame for the pandemic on the Chinese . Angela Merkel has called out the Chinese on their lack of transparency ;and she is under increased pressure to take stronger stands against them . A German newspaper figured out the costs of their negligence that Germany must bear and made a mock up bill of £130BN bill for 'coronavirus damages' to submit to the Chinese .


Relations between China and the European Union have soured over the Communist country’s mishandling of the pandemic with the EU now emphasizing more autonomy,There have been calls for the EU to suspend Chinese takeover of European businesses which have increased during the crisis .
“Over these months China has lost Europe,” said Reinhard Buetikofer, a German lawmaker who chairs the European Parliament’s delegation for relations with China.Leaders of the European Council put a ”roadmap” together to decrease dependency on China. The document calls on members to “invest in strategic value chains to reduce over dependency . The same is true in China's neighborhood. India is taking steps to restrict foreign direct investment from countries that share a land boundary with India...a clear swipe at China .



India is engaging with other countries in the Indo-Pacific making bilateral agreements and through Quad Plus (
India, US, Australia, Japan, South Korea, New Zealand and Vietnam) to counter China and to blunt or balance China’s future influence in institutions like the World Health Organization.










. In Australia, Japan, Indonesia, South Korea, and India, views toward China were already at historic lows prior to the crisis.

This skepticism of China will only deepen as these countries recall the initial suppression of information and draconian measures in Wuhan, where the virus originated, and observe Chinas attempt to rewrite history .

All that is true, and I blame most if not a vast majority of Chinese actions on the free market especially here, kissing Chinese butts over the years in a zeal to make a buck. This has allowed China to enjoy eating the cake, and demanding more. We see how that's working out, and it was LEGAL.

Now that doesn't diminish my disgust at the way the dufus has handled things the last three years, and lied about it. It reinforces it. Add to that unbridled and crony capitalism, to say I'm disappointed is an understatement. Didn't the orange dude say he could fix this stuff?

We have a lot to lose if he can't keep his word, which he never has.

Strange that Trump's words haven't backfired in trade but China threatens others, such as Australia for demanding answers

I would be interested in more elaboration of that point Clete, as make no mistake my view that China is as big a bully as you'll ever see, bar none. They have little choice but to be.




I dream of a better tomorrow, where chickens can cross the road and not be questioned about their motives.”
– Ralph Waldo Emerson

Clete the Aussies are living in the bed they made . You try to have it both ways maintaining a strong US alliance and becoming an economic vassal state to China .I'll say your government may have learned their lessons and they are becoming much more vocal standing up to an ever increasing assertive China.

As for Trump ,if I find any fault in his policies has been his desire to look inward with his America First agenda. If anything we should be more assertive in taking the lead in the Indo-china region ;forging stronger alliances with the nations that China would attempt to dominate .

When I start agreeing with a conservative I get scared! When I wholeheartedly agree, I get terrified!

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.6zJtJ8x5Rr7lr9tYlAwSIgHaE8&w=152&h=106&c=8&rs=1&qlt=90&dpr=2&pid=3.1&rm=2

I'm suppose to be a bleeding heart liberal!


https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.MNvedEIuuVQtsMdo1ynJ7QAAAA?w=196&h=160&c=7&o=5&dpr=1.1&pid=1.7

China will only change (or any of those super power would be dictators), when they get out numbered and surrounded. A unified front. They are terrified of being shamed and blamed for this crisis. Our own dufus included.

Clete the Aussies are living in the bed they made . You try to have it both ways maintaining a strong US alliance and becoming an economic vassal state to China .I'll say your government may have learned their lessons and they are becoming much more vocal standing up to an ever increasing assertive China.

As for Trump ,if I find any fault in his policies has been his desire to look inward with his America First agenda. If anything we should be more assertive in taking the lead in the Indo-china region; forging stronger alliances with the nations that China would attempt to dominate .

Like your President Obama we pivoted to Asia long ago, recognising our proximity to both India and China represented opportunity and we made the first overtures to bring down the bamboo curtain. Unfortunately, China looks on relationships as an either or thing, whereas we seek a more open relationship. Our relationship with the US has proven problematical, since, they have proven fickle partners, withdrawing support for local manufacturing on a number of occasions. If you want to forge stronger alliances, do so with us

I'm in . How's your supply of rare earth minerals ? I already drink your wine.

I'm in . How's your supply of rare earth minerals ? I already drink your wine.
We have lots of rare earths just waiting to be dug up, The wine may be a bit smoke tainted this year but much will probably be diverted from China

I don't think the Chinese will take any disruption of their wine supply chain very lightly. You Aussies should tread carefully there.

Do you think they would rather drink our wine than eat, they have slapped a punitive tarriff on Barley and reduced imports of our beef and they are thinking up more ways to hurt us. One of our politicians have suggested total ban on exports of foodstuffs to China including baby formula

You go Aussies !!! Sell us more lamb !! I could eat lamb every day and never tire of it .

The flock number are down because of the drought, lamb is very expenive here, too much exported

Money is no object for the Tomder.

what else do I have to spend it on ?
No businesses are open and I can't eat out . So I use the money I would at a restaurant and but the expensive cuts . I will gladly pay premium for a rack of lamb.

Now we have to protect the fishermen during this salmon season in Alaska . May they be safe and virus free as they harvest this years bounty .

Wish I could get some of them jumbo shrimp from Australia. Might have to migrate.

Wish I could get some of them jumbo shrimp from Australia. Might have to migrate.

jumbo shrimp? you mean king prawns? you surely can buy them in a frozen slab. Yes, come on over, our chinese migration program, otherwise known as foreign students, is on hold. We need some yankee money to balance the property market out

I might have to learn the language before I get there. Slabs are ribs here Clete, not swimps. king crabs ain't prawns. You guys have good food no matter what you call it, so we may have to hire you to translate.

I might have to learn the language before I get there. Slabs are ribs here Clete, not swimps. king crabs ain't prawns. You guys have good food no matter what you call it, so we may have to hire you to translate.

No you know the lingo, just think a little. A slab is a block of frozen prawns, say ten kilo. Crabs are something else, we have blue crabs here and muddies too and Morton Bay bugs which are a cray. nough translatin, none of that srimp on the barbie crap, that is just for the tourists, we put T-bones on the barbie

That sounds great, no problem adjusting to the cuisine, but gotta have the ribs beef and pork, but T-bones will do quite well!

don't understand your fascination with ribs, pork bellies and such like, now give me BBQ boned sholder of lamb

Beef brisket.

don't understand your fascination with ribs, pork bellies and such like, now give me BBQ boned sholder of lamb

No pork bellies or pigs feet for me..UGH!

I'll take a braised lamb shoulder any day . But there is some good eats from pig. My favorite is a German recipe called schweinshaxe which is roasted pig knuckles. The meat falls off the bone it is so tender .

this just shows the differences in our linage

My ancestors were from Southern Italy and Ireland ,but German food is some of my favorite

My ancestors were from Ireland too, but my selection of food is distinctly Australian; Lamb, Beef, Chicken, Potatoes, Rice, carrots, lettice, celery, beetroot, onion with the occasional fish and prawn

Is pork not eaten in Australia?

Yes, but not to the same extent you do, bacon and ham, but I haven't had roast pork or a pork chop in yonks. lots of the prok here comes from asia, so we tend not to trust it

Pork chops are my favorites...well one of them any ways. I imagine Asians raise pigs much differently than you do, or maybe we do here, but not sure. Hmm!

pigs are raised in feedlots here

Some of our pigs are slopped old school with anything to fatten them up, and some are housed together in huge crowded pens and fed better I suppose but they all taste the same to me no matter how they are marketed.

just don' t raise your pigs near a mango tree.

I prefer cut and wrapped for the freezer to be honest.

1998 the Nipa virus which has a mortality rate of about 40% hit Malaysia. There weren't a lot of deaths because the problem was quickly identified( 265 cases ;105 deaths) .There is no known treatment for the virus . It was traced to fruit bats that feasted on mango trees planted around industrial pig farms . Hundreds of thousands of pigs were slaughtered . That contained the outbreak. Periodically there have been outbreaks in India ,and Bangladesh . Turns out the people like a sweet tea made out of date palm sap. The bats also like the sweet sap.

Just this year China slaughtered millions of pigs that were carriers of African swine fever . It is a hemorrhagic disease that affects pigs . To date there have not been transmission to humans . Australia does a good job preventing the smuggling of pork into the country . We need to be as vigilant

we have a different problem here . We have pigs ready to slaughter . But because of C-19 we don't have the capacity to process them . The problem is that pigs continue to grow past their slaughter time and they out grow their barns and start having health problems . But we are looking at the need to cull up to 60-70,000 pigs a day if the meat processing plants do not get back to full capacity .

That's a lot of pork

we have a different problem here . We have pigs ready to slaughter . But because of C-19 we don't have the capacity to process them . The problem is that pigs continue to grow past their slaughter time and they out grow their barns and start having health problems . But we are looking at the need to cull up to 60-70,000 pigs a day if the meat processing plants do not get back to full capacity .

What a waste. Seems like there would be a plan B to mitigate disruption in the food supply chain.

yes it is called business as usual

Slaughter and freeze instead of slaughter and bury? Or are all the freezer trucks already stuffed with humans?

could be, however back to the OP, China has come out swinging in response to Trump and Pompeo or is that Caesar and Pompey?

The dufus is counter punching on TV now.

https://www.state.gov/2020-hong-kong-policy-act-report/?fbclid=IwAR2-ok2iqk0m5FqwWNsXdF5oK-VL_vhcN8uUZwONAm5o_OnqsgZyBk7uHPY



Consistent with sections 205 and 301 of the United States-Hong Kong Policy Act of 1992 (the “Act”), as amended by the Hong Kong Human Rights and Democracy Act of 2019, and section 7043(f)(4)(B) of the Department of State, Foreign Operations, and Related Programs Appropriations Act, 2020 (Div. G, P.L. 116-94), the Department submits this report and the enclosed certification on developments in Hong Kong from March 2019 through May 2020.
Summary

The Department of State is obligated by law to certify to Congress annually whether Hong Kong continues to warrant differential treatment under U.S. law. After careful consideration, as required by section 301 of the Hong Kong Policy Act, I can no longer certify that Hong Kong continues to warrant such treatment.
This decertification should come as no surprise, given the facts on the ground. When the United Kingdom handed Hong Kong over to the Chinese Communist Party-led regime in Beijing in 1997, the hope was that free and prosperous Hong Kong would change China by leading the regime in a more liberal direction. China’s promise was that for 50 years, Hong Kong would have certain rights and a system of governance guaranteed by the Sino-British Joint Declaration, a UN-filed international treaty. Instead, authoritarian China has now changed Hong Kong.
The erosion of the territory’s liberties has happened gradually over a period of years, and has accelerated since General Secretary Xi Jinping took power. In 2014, Beijing effectively ruled out universal suffrage as a means to elect the territory’s leader. Dissidents were spirited out of Hong Kong into mainland China and forced to “confess” alleged crimes. Facing Beijing-backed advertising boycotts and other pressure, local media outlets self-censored their coverage of the CCP. Beijing announced the expulsion of U.S. journalists working from mainland China, and said it would prohibit them from reporting from Hong Kong as well.
In last year’s report, I asserted that Hong Kong maintained “a sufficient – although diminished – degree of autonomy,” as an acknowledgement of Beijing’s escalating assault on the territory. Since that report was issued, China has shed any pretense that the people of Hong Kong enjoy the high degree of autonomy, democratic institutions, and civil liberties guaranteed to them by the Sino-British Joint Declaration and the Basic Law.
In November 2019, the Legislative Affairs Commission of the National People’s Congress Standing Committee issued a statement asserting that only the NPCSC has the power to decide whether Hong Kong laws comply with the Basic Law. This statement challenged fundamental principles of autonomy and the long-established practice of Hong Kong courts exercising the power of judicial review to adjudicate laws and review government actions.
On April 17, 2020, the Chinese government’s Central Government Liaison Office (CGLO) in Hong Kong issued a statement claiming that CGLO and the central government’s Hong Kong and Macau Affairs Office in Beijing are not bound by a provision of the Basic Law which states that “no department of the Central People’s Government . . . may interfere in the affairs” of Hong Kong.
On May 22, 2020, the PRC announced a proposal at the National People’s Congress (NPC) to unilaterally and arbitrarily impose national security legislation on Hong Kong, a procedural step which contradicts the spirit and practice of the Sino-British Joint Declaration and the One Country, Two Systems framework.
The people of Hong Kong turned out in the millions to protest these violations of their human rights and fundamental freedoms, not to mention China’s betrayal of its own promises to the territory. Instead of listening to their grievances and finding a democratic solution, the Hong Kong government deployed tear gas and made mass arrests, including of peaceful demonstrators, while Beijing reportedly dispatched its People’s Armed Police into Hong Kong, contrary to its promises under the Basic Law and the Sino-British Joint Declaration.
Hong Kong flourished for decades as a bastion of liberty and example of what China could aspire to become. I hope that someday in the future, I will be able to recertify that the territory once again warrants differential treatment under U.S. law. Given present circumstances, the chance of that happening is remote. In the meantime, the United States stands with the people of Hong Kong as they struggle against the CCP’s increasing denial of the autonomy they were promised.

All the things going on around the country, and all he can do is read a brief statement about China.

His name is Trump. That settles it for Tal. No amount of reason or law will prevail.

China has broken the agreement . I am very concerned for Hong Kong. The people I know from there some coworkers will resist to the end.

I share the sentiment Tom, but in the grand scheme of things the dufus has much more pressing matters, and responsibilities. However, we wait and see, what transpires next. Hong Kong has been brewing a while, and no rhetoric changes that, but reason dictates domestic attention as he and Xi can talk privately.

Britain has declared open doors for British subjects, the balance of the HK citizanry will have to suck it up, they are chinese afteral, and taiwan will be next

Poking the bear is not a reasonable strategy. Just escalates a already shaky situation.

No Trump would rather chain the bear, but the bear is having none of it

Xi will play the long game, but has plenty of moves to play NOW! As we say in the locker room...don't drop your soap!

He sees the world dealing with the pandemic he inflicted on the world and is taking the opportunity to flex China's muscle everywhere . South China Sea ,Hong Kong Taiwan even India .

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/27/china-and-india-move-troops-as-border-tensions-escalate

India is not backing down . The people of Hong Kong are fighting a valiant fight . The Chinese will underestimate the protest . Hong Kong is built perfectly for urban street action .

He sees the world dealing with the pandemic he inflicted on the world and is taking the opportunity to flex China's muscle everywhere . South China Sea ,Hong Kong Taiwan even India .

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/27/china-and-india-move-troops-as-border-tensions-escalate

India is not backing down . The people of Hong Kong are fighting a valiant fight . The Chinese will underestimate the protest . Hong Kong is built perfectly for urban street action .

Here's another link from The Guardian you may be interested in.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/mar/28/trump-coronavirus-politics-us-health-disaster

The Chinese are ambitious for sure Tom, and very capable of operating on many fronts, and they know exactly what they are doing, which is why the dufus bringing them public is not a good idea in their own back yard. Looks tough by the dufus, but we both know it's hot air and a waste. Everybody owes the Chinese money, even us. Even the Indians ain't gonna kiss our arses to help the dufus gain any leverage even if they do want to push back against China which will only take you so far. LOL, they don't have to do anything in Hong Kong immediately, and will be ready to move at their own pace.

Hong Kong is but a secondary piece on the world chess board, and moving to capture her will be a rather expensive trade and put us way out of position on the rest of the board. The dufus is playing checkers though, and not that good at it.

HK is a Pawn in the Chinese game, whereas Taiwan is a Rook. The opposing King is threatened, but China has moved a Knight against India, a great deal is in play. The Chinese only have to use soft power against HK, knowing that things will settle to the new reality in the long run, this is not a one week war, it is a thousand year war and China won HK sometime ago. Ask yourself; what is Xi hiding while attention is on HK?

The Rhineland was just a pawn . And Germany was justified taking it . After all it was their own territory and it was not worth a drop of blood to oppose . "Ask yourself; what was Hitler hiding ?"

The Rhineland was just a pawn . And Germany was justified taking it . After all it was their own territory and it was not worth a drop of blood to oppose . "Ask yourself; what was Hitler hiding ?"

Hitler wasn't hiding, he had already told everyone his intentions in miem kampf, he rose to power on the idea of making Germany great again, now I wonder where we have heard this idea. Xi is working on making China great again, even as Trump attempts the same for the US. You want to oppose Xi while endorsing Trump. Trump is opposing Xi in a war of words and tariffs. The US opposed Japan and it led to war. History repeats itsself because afterall it is human nature

so you are saying that the Chamberlain model was a success ? Oh yeah Xi has made it very clear what his intentions are .Hitler had Mein Kamph and no one paid attention. Xi has his 2050 plan and no one will pay attention.
You guys focus on Trump and the world goes nuts when he suggests travel bans and dealing with China's uneven trade practices . You cry foul when Trump suggests temporary travel bans from Muslim nations .Then you turn a blind eye to the Chinese systematic slaughter of their Muslim population . Yeah I see history repeating . There were Hitler apologists here and around the world in the late 1930s too .We had our Charles Lindbergh's Now we have our quid pro Joe China apologists; and you have your KRudd's .

ok ,I'll go with your Japan analogy . The US ,specifically Teddy Roosevelt ,made a mistake at the end of the 19th century in encouraging Japan to become a regional and imperial power . We were late to see our mistake .The same can be said for US Chinese relations since Nixon. 1999 Chinese colonels Qiao Liang and Wang Xiangsui gave us the blueprint for Chinese unrestricted warfare. They predicted the attack on the World Trade Centers 3 years before it happened .The Chinese have laid out similar blue prints for economic dominance followed by military,political , and cultural dominance ,
Trump saw this coming years before he ran for President . He certainly saw it before me. I was all in on China because they were also moving towards representative government and liberty for the people. Xi is an extreme Maoist and makes no pretense where he is taking China and eventually the world .

You don't have to convince me that Xi and Vlad, (Remember him?) and quite a few others have conquest and domination on their minds, history is littered with such people. They always hide behind sovereignty or some iteration of manifest destiny to further their own power. That and a good army. Step back though Tom, and see the pattern of our own private business always finding a way to facilitate these fools, because we are doing the same thing.

Show me a dictator and I'll show you an American company doing business with them. Treaty to follow. We dropped the ball when we nixed the Asian trade agreements, and opted for feckless sanctions instead.

the die was cast long before the nixing of the TTP which btw was a terrible deal for the US , You blame American business as always . But it was the US government that was encouraging and in many cases undermining our own security see Bubba's many deals to arm the Chinese.

https://www.frontpagemag.com/fpm/2020/03/arming-china-its-bill-clintons-fault-michael-ledeen/


There are those who say that we had to strengthen China to act as a bulwark against Russia, but I don’t buy that. The big shift to Chinese manufacture came because they could make things far more cheaply than others could. That’s the profit motive, not national security.,

Unbridled capitalism which was not limited to Clinton or China. Every prez has his pets dictated by big biz. The dufus loves the Saudis. What could go wrong with selling them stuff? See me in 25 years.

https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/BB14LQd8.img?h=749&w=1123&m=6&q=60&u=t&o=f&l=f

https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/BB14LQd8.img?h=749&w=1123&m=6&q=60&u=t&o=f&l=f
BECAUSE NOTHING IN LIFE IS FREE EXCEPT LIBERAL FANTASIES

That's why big biz travels the world looking for cheap labor?

the cost of labor is a supply and demand issue. The company I work for pays higher wages because we can not find people willing to do the job at lower rates . It really is as simple as that .

Exactly correct, Tom. The key to making more money is to make yourself more valuable. Learn new skills. Show up on time. Keep your mouth shut. Be agreeable.

the cost of labor is a supply and demand issue. The company I work for pays higher wages because we can not find people willing to do the job at lower rates . It really is as simple as that .

At your company. Walmart and Target don't have that problem.


Exactly correct, Tom. The key to making more money is to make yourself more valuable. Learn new skills. Show up on time. Keep your mouth shut. Be agreeable.

Or get two jobs or three.

Walmart and Target don't have that problem.They do here. Every retail store in our city is looking for workers.

And yes, you can work two jobs and thank God that there are two jobs you can work. You do what you have to do to make it, but plan and work in such a way that five or ten years from today, that won't be the case.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EORGf9eXkAE4MXZ.jpg:large?fbclid=IwAR1_7-tCnk4Y01K5hSJ_dbfMrwt2gSY2Q3pY-4K6LKeM3GSvsQHENQ6b734

I would not work as a Walmart or Target clerk thinking that was going to be the last job I ever do. If I was to stay there I would compete for higher level employment opportunities or I would be working elsewhere . I have had multiple jobs with multiple employers in my time . I have held 5 positions in my 30 years at the place I am currently employed . What I did was make myself a valuable employee to them . I did that so I could make as much money as possible and make it harder for them to replace me.

What I did was make myself a valuable employee to them . I did that so I could make as much money as possible and make it harder for them to replace me.That's the key to the whole thing.

If only everyone was as ambitious as you two. Or as self motivated. That's a valuable skill that not all possess.

If only everyone was as ambitious as you two. Or as self motivated. That's a valuable skill that not all possess."We have met the enemy and he is us." If it's a skill, then it can be learned. For it to be learned, it must be valued and taught.

Unfortunately what's been taught in this country is get over it and do as your told. This country was built on pain and blood. The ones who bore the pain and gave the blood were pushed aside and the pain givers got the glory. Nothing has changed and that's the lesson learned.

Until the wounds are healed the hell with more lessons.

That's a valuable skill that not all possess. that's why some succeed and others don't . You make the successful sound greedy and evil

Unfortunately what's been taught in this country is get over it and do as your told. This country was built on pain and blood. The ones who bore the pain and gave the blood were pushed aside and the pain givers got the glory. Nothing has changed and that's the lesson learned.

Until the wounds are healed the hell with more lessons.
Your message to everyone who wants to continue to fail. Until the issues of law-breaking amongst the youth, out of wedlock births, fatherless families, and inferior schools are addressed, then nothing else is going to avail. White racism is not nearly as big a problem as those four, and neither is police violence.

From an Atlantic article. "Of the 1,146 and 1,092 victims of police violence in 2015 and 2016, respectively, the authors found 52 percent were white, 26 percent were black, and 17 percent were Hispanic." Even the moron who wrote the article, who incredibly can't seem to figure out that an armed assailant who is shot by the police is hardly a "victim of violence," the chances of an innocent black person being killed by a cop is miniscule compared to the chances of that same black person being murdered by another black person.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2018/05/the-57375-years-of-life-lost-to-police-violence/559835/

Thank you for your view.

Not so much my view as it is the view of data.

I think understanding the rage and anger of the particular group lends a different perspective than the data may show. In this instance it does for me so forgive me if I cannot relate to the analysis you have presented at this time. While at least there appears to be a recognition of the difference between protesters and criminals acts, it doesn't explain why MURDER is so easily tolerated and looked over after 3 of the most disgusting incidences so early this year against the back drop of other MURDERS, than yet again got excused.

Such behavior and the attitude for it given its longevity and frequency goes well beyond data and opinion. Sorry I think those murders should be addressed before we go into those other racists offshoots just as a matter urgency, and priority.

If that's a recipe for failure...!

it doesn't explain why MURDER is so easily toleratedMy question exactly.

the chances of an innocent black person being killed by a cop is minuscule compared to the chances of that same black person being murdered by another black person.

How racist of you to point that out, the likelyhood of a white person being killed by a white person is also high or the likelyhood of anyone being killed by a cop but the black community obviously have a grievence, so hire more black cops to police the black community then if a black cop kills a black person it isn't racist

Well the dufus did say cops should be more brutal when they arrest suspects so they must have heard him.

Even the moron who wrote the article

And the moron who read it and posted it here.


the chances of an innocent black person being killed by a cop is miniscule compared to the chances of that same black person being murdered by another black person.

Incredible how you can take a fact and completely misapprehend what it means.

Oh my. Athos is back from his extended leave. At least all the rational, civil discourse was nice while it lasted.

had you stopped arguing while he was away, i didn't notice

Discourse can involve argument. Doesn't mean it can't be civil and rational, unlike your latest contribution.

Oh I was civil and rational but you once again demonstrated your proclivity to argument

So what is it that you're doing??? "I'm going to argue with you about your 'proclivity' to argue." I guess one man's discussion is another man's argument.

Do you suppose Xi is laughing at the dufus for jumping on them for threatening HK, while the dufus threatens Americans?

More likely Xi is laughing at Americans who can't tell the difference between the two actions. Threats against people engaged in peaceful protests against tyranny is wildly different from threats against violent, unlawful rioters.

Or both the confused Americans and the dufus.

I would tend to agree with you that Trump is not the greatest leader of our time, but you really want to replace him with BIDEN???

Can I get a big hell yes? HELL YEAH!

Associating "hell" with Biden. Freudian slip?

Just answered your query. VOTE4JOE!

Used it twice. Hmmm. Makes sense to me.

Can I get a big hell yes? HELL YEAH!

You get the idea, you're just being difficult.

Oh these presidents who pose with the Bible just for a photo op. How disgusting!

https://scontent.fmem1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/84610840_10220219714942141_6880790251053252608_n.j pg?_nc_cat=101&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=jPa15iza7nsAX8z-aJP&_nc_ht=scontent.fmem1-1.fna&oh=6465c37e6bf4cc7065f2401e9e146a43&oe=5EFD2C0F


You get the idea, you're just being difficult.Was actually meant in a joking manner. Have a good night.

Oh these presidents who pose with the Bible just for a photo op. How disgusting!

He didn't get there by mowing down hundreds of American citizens with tear gas, mounted police, rubber bullets and smoke bombs. Makes a big difference, huh?

He didn't get there by mowing down hundreds of American citizens with tear gas, mounted police, rubber bullets and smoke bombs. Makes a big difference, huh?First of all, you don't "mow people down" with tear gas. When people are told to disperse and refuse to do so, then they have to face the consequences. But at least we don't have to talk anymore about Trump's cheap Bible photo op. Lo and behold, the liberal icon himself did it, or at least when he could break free from chasing young interns around.

He didn't get there by mowing down hundreds of American citizens with tear gas, mounted police, rubber bullets and smoke bombs. Makes a big difference, huh?
That narrative has been completely debunked. Trump must have iron lungs if he cold walk across Lafayette Park moments after tear gas was deployed without wearing a mask.

Bubba had routine photo ops with bibles in hand ;often with Evita by his side during his sexual assault days .

That narrative has been completely debunked. Trump must have iron lungs if he cold walk across Lafayette Park moments after tear gas was deployed without wearing a mask.

What? So the dufus didn't use tear gas? Who and where was that debunked?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/tunedin/opinion-this-is-propaganda/vi-BB14Whnk?ocid=anaheim-ntp-feeds


Bubba had routine photo ops with bibles in hand ;often with Evita by his side during his sexual assault days .

So when did Clinton use law enforcement for his photo ops, or bring criticism from those he used for it? That bishop of the church the dufus used didn't sound very happy or honored about it to me. Comparing these two situations goes beyond absurd to defend a dirty underhanded antic by the dufus.

No notice was given, and that's from the people he was with.

yeah that's akin to POTUS surprise visits to Baghdad or other war zones . He does not have to send out press releases ahead of time when he decides to go across the block .

tear gas was not used . Smoke canisters were . They do not have the irritants that tear gas have . That is why Trump was able to make a leisurely stroll across the park so soon after the mob was dispersed . They are lucky Trump is not Napoleon.

yeah that's akin to POTUS surprise visits to Baghdad or other war zones . He does not have to send out press releases ahead of time when he decides to go across the block .

He does have to make prearrangement though and does. Why are you excusing his antics for a photo op when his own band of merry men had no clue? A photo op that didn't include a tour of the damages he claimed to be mad about, nor a meeting and good words for the "victims" of the dastardly deed. Naw, him holding a bible was what the rousting of peaceful protesters were about.

tear gas was not used . Smoke canisters were . They do not have the irritants that tear gas have . That is why Trump was able to make a leisurely stroll across the park so soon after the mob was dispersed . They are lucky Trump is not Napoleon.

Tear gas, or smoke bombs, both are riot control tools, and there was no riot. This was a simple show of force, to dramatize for his adoring public how tough he is.

Yeah. He should have used the highly effective methods being employed in democrat strongholds like Minneapolis, NYC, Atlanta, and Memphis.

He could of just asked. They looked peaceful to me. Here is a general who didn't lie to two judges, the FBI, and, the VP.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/defense-secretary-mattis-blasts-president-trump-years-mature/story?id=71055272


"We know that we are better than the abuse of executive authority that we witnessed in Lafayette Park. We must reject and hold accountable those in office who would make a mockery of our Constitution," he continued.

Funny how you guys love the dufus for they way he treats people but hate China for doing pretty much the same thing...or threatening too.

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/defense-secretary-mattis-blasts-president-trump-years-mature/story?id=71055272


Funny how you guys love the dufus for the way he treats people but hate China for doing pretty much the same thing...or threatening too.

It's not the same thing, I bet Trump wishes he could send the demonstrators to "reeducation camps". you confuse talk with action. If this were happening in China the PLA would have swiftly put down the insurrection, we may yet see them doing it in HK, they have been extraordinarily patient there. meanwhile Xi can laugh about Trump being in deep dodo

tear gas was not used . Smoke canisters were . They do not have the irritants that tear gas have . That is why Trump was able to make a leisurely stroll across the park so soon after the mob was dispersed . They are lucky Trump is not Napoleon.

The CDC disagrees with you. Smoke cannisters in combination with pepper balls (pepper spray) are "riot control agents" - a term used interchangeably with "tear gas". A distinction without a difference.

Also stated by Trump's spokesmen was the protestors were violent. An outright lie, debunked by many witnesses (all googleable).

One comment made by a Trump man was the "rioters were breaking the law since it was past curfew". This was quickly deleted by the Trump people as being TWICE wrong - it was not past curfew and they were not rioters! If not for the video, this pair of lies would still be quoted by the Trump people.

The photo op was a disgrace to America. Religious leaders and even some GOP members denounced Trump's photo op.

For a blistering response, read former Secretary of Defense James Mattis condemnation of Trump and how Trump wants to use the military against American citizens on American soil. Chilling!

https://www.msn.com/en-au/news/world/james-mattis-denounces-president-trump-describes-him-as-a-threat-to-the-constitution/ar-BB1509rD

It took Mattis long enough to break his silence. Now he's done it in spades.

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIF. V%252by174ZqU4rL0kThP%252bl%252ftQ%26pid%3DApi&f=1

Mattis is a swamp critter looking for work

Mattis is a swamp critter looking for work

Like Flynn?

Mattis is a swamp critter looking for work

That's not what Trump and you righties said about him when he was Defense Secretary. Then it was all adoration.

Mattis isn't the only service member speaking out against the dufus. He had to take Esper behind the wood shed to to get him on the right page after his presser the other day.