The police state is here, telephone technology can tell you if you have been exposed before your symptoms show

]https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-30/coronavirus-track-infection-spread-mobile-phone-technology/12101960 (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-30/coronavirus-track-infection-spread-mobile-phone-technology/12101960)

and in the aftermath what else will this technology be used for. It is a massive invasion of privacy

It's more accurately a doctor state Clete, but your fear of a police state seems to over ride that caveat. If that's the case then deal with the virus ravaging the country, and the deaths that follow, as you get that cure ready for the victims.

those a$$wipes on the beach forfeited their privacy by being jack a$$es . A civil society can only survive if the people act morally . Morality often requires that people sacrifice short term interests for the greater good WITHOUT being compelled to do so . John Adams and most of the Founders understood this . They rejected a state religion .But they knew civil society would not survive if the people were not moral .


While our country remains untainted with the principles and manners which are now producing desolation in so many parts of the world; while she continues sincere, and incapable of insidious and impious policy, we shall have the strongest reason to rejoice in the local destination assigned us by Providence. But should the people of America once become capable of that deep simulation towards one another, and towards foreign nations, which assumes the language of justice and moderation, while it is practising iniquity and extravagance, and displays in the most captivating manner the charming pictures of candour, frankness, and sincerity, while it is rioting in rapine and insolence, this country will be the most miserable habitation in the world. Because we have no government, armed with power, capable of contending with human passions, unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge and licentiousness would break the strongest cords of our Constitution, as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

John Adams,'Thoughts On Government Applicable To The Present State Of The American Colonies.'

I agree Tom, that quote by Adams explains the state of our current affairs, we have a lot of a$$wipes that get in the way of the Good Orderly Direction we all need to address this crisis. My glass is half full though as everyday we get more examples of not just people doing the right moral thing, but for the right reasons too.

I don't see the distinction between the right moral thing and the right reason .

here is another example



https://www.newbalance.com/made-medical-letter-landing-page/?ICID=IMG_HP_H1_LP__10757_MW

I don't see the distinction between the right moral thing and the right reason .

I believe it's an inevitable fact that some sheeple will follow a good example, and some will follow a bad example.

It's more accurately a doctor state Clete, but your fear of a police state seems to over ride that caveat. If that's the case then deal with the virus ravaging the country, and the deaths that follow, as you get that cure ready for the victims.

we are dealing with the virus ravaging my country with severe restrictions on personal liberty, however the article I posted speaks of something more, the surveillance state made possible by the ubiquitous mobile phone

I believe it's an inevitable fact that some sheeple will follow a good example, and some will follow a bad example.

How did that answer Tom's question? "I don't see the distinction between the right moral thing and the right reason ."


the surveillance state made possible by the ubiquitous mobile phoneIt certainly is something to watch.

You'll have to ask Tom if my comment made sense to him. If it didn't to you why not?


we are dealing with the virus ravaging my country with severe restrictions on personal liberty, however the article I posted speaks of something more, the surveillance state made possible by the ubiquitous mobile phone

You don't trust your own government not to use your data in a nefarious way? Me either, but one would hope in this instance it's for a greater good that saves lives.

Your quote was, "doing the right moral thing, but for the right reasons too." Tom asked how they were different. Your reply about people following good or bad examples seemed to have nothing to do with your statement, but if you're happy with it, then so am I.

You've never seen people do the right thing just for profit?

In that case you would have to define what you mean by "the right thing". If you are referring to that which works well in business, then your point is a good one. However, your quote specifically referred to "the right moral thing". I'm not sure how you do something "just for profit" and call it "the right moral thing". I would say that was Tom's question.

In that case you would have to define what you mean by "the right thing". If you are referring to that which works well in business, then your point is a good one. However, your quote specifically referred to "the right moral thing". I'm not sure how you do something "just for profit" and call it "the right moral thing". I would say that was Tom's question.

The moral thing was in reference to what Tom posted and for the sake of argument I raised the point of the for the right reasons and my for profit was the reasoning of not for the right reasons. Not saying that's the case during this emergency since several companies are charging enough to cover costs which is reasonable, and making money is not immoral, but price gouging is something to consider when responding to this crisis.

The difference I was trying to convey was doing the right thing without EXPLOITING the situation for personal gain. Some have but probably my point was not clear enough. You know me sometimes. 8D

You don't trust your own government not to use your data in a nefarious way? Me either, but one would hope in this instance it's for a greater good that saves lives.


Yes that's the excuse for implementation it is for the greater good, I can see that in the instance of tracking paedophiles and criminals but governments will not leave it at that. Right now there is lock down so it will be used for surveillance, my mobile stays at home

Hope you're staying home too, you old coot!

8D

Hope you're staying home too, you old coot!

8D

Old Coot! yourself, of course, I'm staying home, nowhere to go anyway, everything is shut except the supermarket and there is nothing I want in there

I recommended Netflix and popcorn months ago. Even better advice NOW! Toilet paper optional, but with a bidet...I recommend Bounty paper towels. Save the phone books for an emergency! How's that for a plan, man?

when in Rome do what the Romans do .The word of the day is
xylospongium

since when is seeking profit necessarily immoral ?

I recommended Netflix and popcorn months ago. Even better advice NOW! Toilet paper optional, but with a bidet...I recommend Bounty paper towels. Save the phone books for an emergency! How's that for a plan, man?


I have already exhausted the selections on Netflix and have resorted to watching movies on youtube, there are no paper towels available here or tisssues so the plan is out of date

You telling me couldn't find anything to replenish the bathroom with. Calling an office supplier tomorrow. Full disclosure, went through free trials for Hulu and Amazon Prime along with the Netflix and slept through most of them, but I miss my sports fix. Can't tell when Sunday rolls around.

You telling me couldn't find anything to replenish the bathroom with. Calling an office supplier tomorrow. Full disclosure, went through free trials for Hulu and Amazon Prime along with the Netflix and slept through most of them, but I miss my sports fix. Can't tell when Sunday rolls around.

Don't need to replenish the bathroom yet but when I do the 7.00am queue will solve the problem, us oldies are allowed to get in ahead of everyone, now where did I leave that alarm clock?

If they have restocked.

They restock overnight but by 8.30 all that has gone, I'll have to brave the early morn when the eggs run out, but no problem I'm well stocked at the moment. The logistics of this is a nightmare, double and trebble the demand across the entire nation. There are large numbers of older people in these country towns

Went to the 24/7 Walmart the other day and many shelves were being restocked but the toilet paper dudes were not one of them. CHEEEZ!

trouble is you are looking for cheap toilet paper . Go find a health food store that sells recycled paper products for double the price that you pay at Walmart . They have supply .

No, That isn't it, nothing is cheap anymore, no supermarket specials, if anything prices have increased my regular shop cost more last week but even health food shops are low on supply, logistics is a bltch

Yup, the real problem is suppliers can't meet demand, and stuff waiting on stuff from China may not be a good strategy for sure.

Yes This will prove that sourcing from China is not a good idea, should be an uptick on locally made

Yes This will prove that sourcing from China is not a good idea, should be an uptick on locally madeYou are both correct on that one. One good thing that can come out of this episode is a refusal to depend on "Made in China" products.

Patriots owner Robert Kraft just sent his private jet (https://www.foxnews.com/sports/new-england-patriots-role-n95-masks-massachusetts-coronavirus)to China to bring back N95 masks. Thank God for rich guys with private jets!

I'm sure he will reserve some for his masseuse

Maybe he can drop a box off at the USS Roosevelt docked in Guam (https://news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-crew-us-aircraft-carrier-174444247.html) while he's at it. They need them.

apparently, it has become mandatory in some parts of the world to load a tracking app on your phone, what did I tell you at the beginning of this OP, before long all business will be done using the phone and not long after that the mark of the beast

That's always been true in some countries and cultures Clete, and often the population is the last to know these things have occurred. Even the so called democracies fail to send out a bulletin that they're seeking such records from the companies that you have given permission to keep them, as an agreement for service, pretty standard stuff really, so it's not like the mark of the beast hasn't always been present, even though wholly unnoticed or ignored.

oh the beast has always been present just now and then he shows his face

Or his servants show theirs.

Maybe he can drop a box off at the USS Roosevelt docked in Guam (https://news.yahoo.com/coronavirus-crew-us-aircraft-carrier-174444247.html)
while he's at it. They need them.

Early March the TR in the middle of the outbreak had shore leave in Vietnam. That is where the sailors on the ship got infected . It spread like wildfire through the ship until now over 200 sailors were infected . Then the bozo commander panicked ;went around chain of command and published a letter he had sent to Navy leadership and ended up telling the world about the readiness of the flag ship on the fleet that is deployed in a critical part of the word . The commander was correctly relieved of command . He's lucky he doesn't face court martial . The crew gave him a heroes send off yesterday .

Yeah, better if nobody but the brass knew about this warship being infected, but if cruise ships are breeding grounds, then why wouldn't warships be the same? I mean geez, NOT expecting everybody everywhere not to be infected is stupid niavite in the first place. Of course conservatives like to make fall guys and fall back on the rules and chain of command crap, especially when it comes to making that chain of command look stupid, or incompetent.

You think the dufus at the top of the chain was even briefed when it happened? Go ahead make excuses but but aren't you curious about the real chain of events and not just the spin?

I'll go by the Navy's version Captain Cozier showed poor judgement BEFORE he sent the letter . He knew the virus was in Vietnam and still gave his ship liberty which brought the virus on board .

Afterward he completely ignored the chain of command and copied more than 20 people over unsecured communications He did NOT speak to his direct superior, carrier strike group commander Rear Adm. Stuart Baker, about his concerns before sending the memo, despite Baker living on the TR within feet of Crozier. By all appearance he went public before following the Navy rules . Like I said ,he's lucky there is no court martial .




He is finished in the military and will never see another promotion or meaningful assignment. He should retire now and apply to MSNBC and CNN for a job. I am sure he would be a welcome contributor to Rachel Madcow's show. .

how do you know what conversationjs may have taken place, but officially, he breached the chain of command. When the chain of command is unresponsive a commander has no choice but to appeal to higher authority. Broadcasting that decision is why he was fired

I'll wait for details, but the guy sure earned the respect of those he served with. I'm sure he knew the consequences of his actions though, when he did it. We'll see what happens and if this was an isolated incident, which is the higher concern.